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Joe vs. The Unknown · Pod Save America

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, Austin?
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Good to be home.
• 0:02
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 0:29
  Speaker 5: Welcome to Pod Save America.
• 0:31
  Speaker 6: I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:35
  Speaker 4: I'm Mehdi Hassan and I'm kind of the, am I
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: the odd one out? I'm the odd one out.
• 0:41
  Speaker 6: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:44
  Speaker 5: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:47
  Speaker 6: I'm Dan Pfeiffer. And thank you all for being here
• 0:52
  Speaker 6: at tonight's opening act for Love It or Leave It.
• 0:58
  Speaker 5: We have a great show for you tonight. Your governor,
• 1:01
  Speaker 5: Maura Healy, is here.
• 1:07
  Speaker 7: And our guest host this evening, the legendary host, commentator, debater,
• 1:13
  Speaker 7: founder of the new media outlet, Zateo, Mehdi Hassan.
• 1:17
  Speaker 6: Mehdi, welcome.
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.
• 1:19
  Speaker 5: Thank you very much, boss. All right.
• 1:22
  Speaker 8: All right.
• 1:23
  Speaker 6: All right.
• 1:29
  Speaker 7: Let's get right into it and start by talking about
• 1:34
  Speaker 7: what's on everyone's mind right now.
• 1:37
  Speaker 5: How about them Celtics?
• 1:42
  Speaker 6: That's it. That's what we're going to talk about. No,
• 1:46
  Speaker 6: we have to talk about the debate.
• 1:49
  Speaker 7: On Thursday night, Joe Biden debated a deranged criminal bent
• 1:54
  Speaker 7: on destroying democracy. And according to every single post-debate poll
• 1:57
  Speaker 7: and all of our eyes, The deranged criminal won by
• 2:00
  Speaker 7: a large margin. More than 50 million Americans watched the
• 2:06
  Speaker 7: train wreck, which is about 30% fewer viewers than the
• 2:10
  Speaker 7: first debate in 2020.
• 2:11
  Speaker 5: But still quite a big audience. Yeah, you can cheer
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: for that.
• 2:14
  Speaker 6: That's great.
• 2:17
  Speaker 7: Too soon to know how this will affect the race,
• 2:19
  Speaker 7: though the early polls have not been great. But the
• 2:21
  Speaker 7: Biden campaign is charging ahead and pointing to the president's
• 2:25
  Speaker 7: livelier performance in North Carolina today.
• 2:28
  Speaker 6: Let's listen.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Now, folks, I don't know what you did last night,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: but I spent 90 minutes on the stage debating a
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: guy who has the morals of an alley cat. Close
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: to this.
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: I know I'm not a young man.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: State the obvious. I don't walk as easy as I
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: used to. I don't speak as smoothly as I used to.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: I don't debate as well as I used to. But
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I know what I do know. I know how to
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: tell the truth. But I know how to do this job.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: I know how to get things done.
• 3:06
  Speaker 5: When you get knocked down, you get back up.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: So.
• 3:11
  Speaker 6: A lot of Chubba Wumba fans here tonight. I love that.
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: Donald Trump had a bit of a different take at
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: his rally in Virginia.
• 3:28
  Speaker 6: Let's listen.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: The question every voter should be asking themselves today is
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: not whether Joe Biden can survive a 90-minute debate performance,
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: but whether America can survive four more years of crooked
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden in the White House.
• 3:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you can boo that.
• 3:47
  Speaker 5: All right, Mehdi.
• 3:50
  Speaker 7: Well, so a lot of our listeners, they've already heard
• 3:52
  Speaker 7: our takes on the debate. So I'm going to start
• 3:54
  Speaker 7: with you. I want you to know I don't enjoy
• 3:57
  Speaker 7: doing this, but yesterday before the debate, you tweeted. I
• 4:03
  Speaker 7: think Republicans will regret setting the bar so low for
• 4:06
  Speaker 7: Biden and helping spread the distorted image of him as
• 4:08
  Speaker 7: a guy who is totally out of it, suffering from dementia,
• 4:11
  Speaker 7: no grip on reality, no ability to speak.
• 4:14
  Speaker 6: Any updates there?
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: John, it's even worse because there was an extra line
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: at the end of the tweet that said, it's a
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: very low bar for him to clear. The update is
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: that the bar was not cleared.
• 4:27
  Speaker 6: It was not cleared.
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: The update was that I am someone, the reason I
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: wrote that tweet, John, is because for several months, actually
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: for several years, when I was at MSNBC for three years,
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: I did a lot of monologues, a lot of segments
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: saying the age thing, it's not as big as people say. Yes,
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: he's old, but that can't be the defining issue when
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: you're up against a deranged, narcissistic fascist who tried to
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: steal democracy. And I said for a few weeks since
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: I left MSNBC, same position in the last few months.
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: We had all these distorted videos from Fox, the TikTok nonsense.
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: It's like, come on, this is bullshit.
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: And then last night happened.
• 5:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: And I can't say that anymore.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: And from like 901, I couldn't say that anymore. I
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: don't know what I was watching because as I say,
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: I wrote the tweet. I thought this should be straightforward.
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: I don't know what I was watching that kind of...
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: the inability to finish whispered sentences, the deer in the headlights,
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: the inability to actually, my biggest complaint about last night
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: was separate to age or abilities. I want a presidential
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: candidate who is going to batter Donald Trump because Donald
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: Trump is for the battering.
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: And he didn't do well. Like Donald Trump turned in
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: a terrible performance.
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: Yes, he turned in the second worst debate performance. We
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: have seen in 2024. RFK erasure. Joe Biden lost a
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: debate to a guy last night who, when he was
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: asked about climate change, said, we had H2O. That is
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: what he said.
• 5:56
  Speaker 7: I took that note. I had notes on the debate.
• 5:59
  Speaker 7: And so I would once in a while type out
• 6:00
  Speaker 7: something that Donald Trump said. And then every time Joe
• 6:03
  Speaker 7: Biden would speak, I would just type, Jesus Christ.
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: He said, we had H2O.
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: And Joe Biden, of course... past the biggest climate investment
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: in American history. And yet, Donald Trump said we had H2O,
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: not in a whisper, and with a great confidence. And therefore,
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: he wins the debate. And I'm not okay with that,
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: but you have to live in the world as it is,
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: not as the world as we want it to be.
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: And that's why I think it is a real problem
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: for the Democrats now to have Joe Biden over the
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: next few months. I have not said that until now.
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: I'm not somebody who's been saying, get rid of him,
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: get rid of him. But after last night, I have
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: to be honest and say, I don't know how we
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: continue like this.
• 6:39
  Speaker 6: Yeah. Tommy.
• 6:40
  Speaker 7: Let's talk about the Biden campaign's reaction and strategy going forward.
• 6:46
  Speaker 7: You heard the president's speech in Raleigh. The campaign also
• 6:49
  Speaker 7: says that after the debate, they had their best hour
• 6:51
  Speaker 7: of fundraising yet. They've raised $ 14 million since last night.
• 6:55
  Speaker 7: They are claiming that their own focus groups in polling
• 6:58
  Speaker 7: look better. And other than that, full speed ahead. What
• 7:02
  Speaker 7: do you think of their strategy and sort of Biden's
• 7:05
  Speaker 7: message at the rally where he acknowledged what happened?
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: So we all watched the rally.
• 7:11
  Speaker 9: I think it was good that in his remarks, I
• 7:14
  Speaker 9: think President Biden acknowledged the obvious, which is that last
• 7:18
  Speaker 9: night didn't go well. It was sort of an oblique
• 7:19
  Speaker 9: reference to it, but he acknowledged it. It was smart
• 7:22
  Speaker 9: to do a big rally to show some energy behind
• 7:25
  Speaker 9: a campaign that could use it right now. I think
• 7:28
  Speaker 9: Biden was able to deliver some lines at this North
• 7:30
  Speaker 9: Carolina event that they probably wanted him to land last night.
• 7:34
  Speaker 9: So maybe that will help kind of shape the narrative
• 7:36
  Speaker 9: on the margins. But, you know, we'll see. But I
• 7:38
  Speaker 9: do think we have to be honest about some big challenges.
• 7:43
  Speaker 9: The first of which is exponentially more people will watch
• 7:47
  Speaker 9: the debate last night and the coverage of that debate
• 7:49
  Speaker 9: than will ever see this rally.
• 7:51
  Speaker 5: And that's just an unfortunate fact.
• 7:53
  Speaker 9: The second is I just, we're grading on a curve here.
• 7:56
  Speaker 9: You know, like we're comparing a rally today to a
• 8:00
  Speaker 9: very bad performance the other night. And, you know, If
• 8:04
  Speaker 9: you really dig into the performance, Biden is sticking with
• 8:06
  Speaker 9: some lines that I feel like just don't really work.
• 8:08
  Speaker 9: I don't know what's going on with the alley cat comparison.
• 8:12
  Speaker 9: Why are we attacking unhoused cats?
• 8:15
  Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying? I didn't know they were
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: known for their bad morality.
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: Lack of morality?
• 8:20
  Speaker 6: I didn't know. They live in the fucking alley. What
• 8:25
  Speaker 6: do you begrudging them? Oh, look at that immoral alley
• 8:28
  Speaker 6: cat going through my garbage.
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: What do you want it to do? The Supreme Court
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: criminalized them living in those alleys just this morning.
• 8:36
  Speaker 5: Now we're going after a bunch of unhoused alley cats.
• 8:39
  Speaker 9: All cats are serial killers.
• 8:44
  Speaker 5: I had cats. I love cats. They would leave dead
• 8:47
  Speaker 5: bodies on our doorstep. all the time. If you die
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: in your home, they.
• 8:51
  Speaker 6: Will eat you. I don't want to live in a
• 8:53
  Speaker 6: world where rich cats are held to one set of
• 8:56
  Speaker 6: fucking rules.
• 8:57
  Speaker 5: That's what I'm saying. He also, he is also very
• 9:01
  Speaker 5: proud of this.
• 9:02
  Speaker 9: Line comparing Donald Trump to Herbert Hoover. Herbert Hoover was
• 9:07
  Speaker 9: president from 1929 to 1933. That is not a cultural
• 9:11
  Speaker 9: touchstone for a lot of people.
• 9:13
  Speaker 6: Yeah, but like, you really remember your college years, you know?
• 9:22
  Speaker 9: I'm not a doomer. I'm not even close to giving up.
• 9:25
  Speaker 9: The fundraising numbers, I think, are good. A lot of
• 9:27
  Speaker 9: this campaign will be waged through paid advertising. But I
• 9:32
  Speaker 9: still feel like last night, President Biden dug a deep hole,
• 9:36
  Speaker 9: and I'm not yet comfortable feeling that he has the capacity,
• 9:42
  Speaker 9: the communication skills to get out of that hole.
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: I think it's going to require some more work.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Just to do a hard swerve here and what we've
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: been doing. Let's talk about what he, what he said,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: not how he said it at this rally. because i
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: think there's something concerning there right i'm i'm with you
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: on the alley cat thing strange weird doesn't really hit
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: thank you but what he said about his own debate
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: performance that's that's the right thing to do you're supposed
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: to go out and say you did poorly and then
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: try to pivot to a better argument what i am
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: concerned about with the alley cat and the trump lying
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: is we are now pivoting back to an argument about
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: who donald trump is america knows who donald trump is
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: What this campaign should be about, and what I think
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: President Biden was intending to do with that debate last night,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: was to make this a race about what Donald Trump
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: will do.
• 10:24
  Speaker 8: And that is so essentially important.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: There aren't that much people who are just gonna wake
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: up tomorrow and realize Donald Trump's an asshole.
• 10:29
  Speaker 8: They know that, right?
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: They're not gonna wake up and realize he's a liar
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: and change their vote. They have to focus on the
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: damage he would do to their lives, the freedoms he
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: would take away, what he would control if he gets reelected,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: and that has to be the message every single day
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: going forward, because we're running out of time here.
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: I totally agree with Dan, and I think, There were
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: two words missing from the 90 minutes last night.
• 10:52
  Speaker 8: Project 2025.
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: I would like.
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: Two of many.
• 10:56
  Speaker 6: Two of many.
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: Two of many.
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: But I would like the media to be talking about this.
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: I would like the Democrats to be talking about this.
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: I would like Trump to be put on the spot
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: for what he plans to do in terms of putting
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: the military on the streets and ripping families apart, et cetera,
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: et cetera, firing half the government. And, you know, we
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: have to ask some questions about the CNN debate coverage
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: as well. I'm not going to defend Joe Biden's performance,
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: but it took them 39 minutes to mention the fact
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: that the guy on stage is a convicted criminal. I
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: would argue that should have been 39 seconds into the debate.
• 11:27
  Speaker 7: I know, but I am sure that Jake and Dana
• 11:31
  Speaker 7: were like, well, Joe Biden is debating a convicted felon.
• 11:36
  Speaker 7: He's probably going to bring that up on his own
• 11:39
  Speaker 7: relatively early in the debate, since no presidential candidate has
• 11:42
  Speaker 7: ever debated a convicted felon before.
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: Look, Biden failed in that. And we could park that
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: and say Biden failed at that. But the media's role
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: there as ever. I mean, I spent nine years trying
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: to stop the normalization of Donald Trump in our media.
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: I spent the last three years trying to stop the
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: rehabilitation of Donald Trump in our media. I have failed
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: miserably at both tasks. And I think last night's debate
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: was evidence of that. Donald Trump is standing up there
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: in the first debate since he was impeached for trying
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: to overturn American democracy, since he was found guilty for
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: financial crimes, since he was adjudicated as a rapist by
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: a judge in a civil trial. And we opened with,
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: what about the economy? As if this is like any
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: other presidential debate. What the hell? And by the way,
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: by the way, John very kindly said, I'm a guy
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: who likes to debate.
• 12:22
  Speaker 6: I do.
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: That was not a debate. You can't moderate a debate
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: if you're not moderating. There has to be some kind
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: of fact checking. Donald Trump can't say, hey, they're trying
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: to kill babies in Virginia. And then you go, thank you.
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: Over to you, Joe Biden.
• 12:35
  Speaker 6: I don't, I just, I just don't, I just like,
• 12:38
  Speaker 6: I fundamentally disagree with what we watch. There were plenty
• 12:41
  Speaker 6: of times in that debate, uh, multiple times the moderators
• 12:45
  Speaker 6: followed up. The question was about the child tax credit,
• 12:48
  Speaker 6: or the question was about, would you accept the election?
• 12:50
  Speaker 6: I think they went back and forth. I just think like, sure,
• 12:54
  Speaker 6: in a debate, a live fire exercise like that, are
• 12:57
  Speaker 6: they going to follow up at every moment? No, but
• 12:59
  Speaker 6: I do not believe any change in how that debate
• 13:03
  Speaker 6: was moderated would have changed the outcome because ultimately that
• 13:06
  Speaker 6: was not a failure of moderation. That was a failure
• 13:08
  Speaker 6: of Joe Biden. There were plenty of moments where Joe
• 13:10
  Speaker 6: Biden didn't do the basics that shouldn't have been up
• 13:13
  Speaker 6: to the moderator. It wasn't their job to discover in
• 13:15
  Speaker 6: real time that the person that showed up wasn't the
• 13:17
  Speaker 6: Joe Biden of the State of the Union, but something much,
• 13:19
  Speaker 6: much worse. And the reality is, I think Tommy's right,
• 13:22
  Speaker 6: we are grading on a curve. And you know what?
• 13:24
  Speaker 6: That would be okay. We could accept that the best
• 13:27
  Speaker 6: Joe Biden we could get was maybe the Joe Biden
• 13:28
  Speaker 6: at the rally or the Joe Biden at the State
• 13:30
  Speaker 6: of the Union, but not when the worst Joe Biden
• 13:32
  Speaker 6: we have ever seen showed up at the most important
• 13:36
  Speaker 6: moment in this campaign. That is the problem. It's not
• 13:38
  Speaker 6: that his best isn't good enough. It's that his worst
• 13:40
  Speaker 6: is too low for us to potentially get out of.
• 13:43
  Speaker 6: And I don't know how to get out of that,
• 13:45
  Speaker 6: but we just have to be honest about it. Yeah.
• 13:51
  Speaker 7: Levitt, you'll be shocked to learn that Republicans are feeling great.
• 13:55
  Speaker 7: They're kind of just stepping back, eating popcorn while the
• 13:58
  Speaker 7: news cycle plays out and the terrible debate clips make
• 14:01
  Speaker 7: the rounds. Those Speaker Mike Johnson and others... are calling
• 14:04
  Speaker 7: the cabinet to remove Biden from office using the 25th Amendment.
• 14:08
  Speaker 7: Seems like that's gilding the lily. But what are you thinking?
• 14:12
  Speaker 7: What did you make of Trump's rally?
• 14:16
  Speaker 6: You know, one of the points Trump made in his
• 14:18
  Speaker 6: rally was like, oh, it's not about how old Joe
• 14:20
  Speaker 6: Biden is. It's about his incompetence because he is well
• 14:23
  Speaker 6: aware that he doesn't have to do any work on
• 14:26
  Speaker 6: the question of whether or not Joe Biden is too
• 14:27
  Speaker 6: old because Joe Biden is doing that work for him.
• 14:29
  Speaker 6: There's a moment where Trump was shit-talking Joe Biden by
• 14:32
  Speaker 6: doing a golf swing. and saying, let's see Joe Biden
• 14:35
  Speaker 6: do that. This is a victory lap because he's winning.
• 14:39
  Speaker 6: I mean, it wasn't a draw, and we needed better
• 14:42
  Speaker 6: than a draw. So of course they're going around and crowing.
• 14:44
  Speaker 6: Of course they're going to do the same 25th Amendment
• 14:46
  Speaker 6: shtick that we did. They're having a great fucking time.
• 14:48
  Speaker 6: It was a great time.
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: Don't you think Trump's like, hey, guys, chill with the
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: whole 25th Amendment thing?
• 14:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
• 14:53
  Speaker 5: Let's just wait this out and let this thing play
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: out for a minute.
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: You think he doesn't want to do it?
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: I think he probably is pretty happy with the state
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: of the race.
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: I think Donald Trump is the master of the hashtag.
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: Every accusation is a confession, right? So he's mastered everything
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: he's ever said is taken from the other side. Fake
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: news began as something about right wing media. He weaponized
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: it to make it about the media. And of course,
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: if somebody accused him of, you know, we know that
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: his own cabinet were considering the 25th. He loves this shit.
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: He probably told him, go put it out there.
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: He didn't want him to go through with it.
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: I saw some Republican tell reporter like, maybe we went
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: a little too far because we needed Biden to be bad.
• 15:29
  Speaker 8: But not so bad we get someone else, right?
• 15:31
  Speaker 6: I was wondering that too. Right. I mean, I think
• 15:34
  Speaker 6: it's a little be careful. They're a little bit of
• 15:36
  Speaker 6: caught the car here because of how bad it was.
• 15:38
  Speaker 6: But I do think it's worth pointing out a distinction
• 15:41
  Speaker 6: because I've seen people compare the Democratic reaction to Joe
• 15:45
  Speaker 6: Biden to internal Republican concerns that they've had about Donald Trump.
• 15:49
  Speaker 6: But there's an important distinction, which is, I think Democrats
• 15:53
  Speaker 6: right now, they're nervous and scared for the country because
• 15:56
  Speaker 6: they understand the stakes of this election. And I think
• 15:59
  Speaker 6: that leads some people to believe the right thing to
• 16:00
  Speaker 6: do is to embrace Joe Biden and continue on this
• 16:03
  Speaker 6: path and others that believe that we need an open convention.
• 16:06
  Speaker 6: But the one thing we're not is scared of each other.
• 16:08
  Speaker 6: Republicans were afraid to question Donald Trump, not because they
• 16:12
  Speaker 6: cared about the country, but because they were afraid of
• 16:14
  Speaker 6: Donald Trump. because they believe Donald Trump was a threat,
• 16:17
  Speaker 6: not just to the country, but to their own safety,
• 16:20
  Speaker 6: that if they were honest about the threat MAGA posed,
• 16:22
  Speaker 6: they would face physical intimidation, that they'd be having to
• 16:24
  Speaker 6: worry for their families, that they would get death threats.
• 16:27
  Speaker 6: And I do think part of what is, I think,
• 16:29
  Speaker 6: good about this moment is that we are reacting to
• 16:31
  Speaker 6: this with good old-fashioned democracy and having this open conversation,
• 16:35
  Speaker 6: collectively trying to figure out what the best thing to
• 16:37
  Speaker 6: do is.
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: But are we doing that? Because you're right. There is
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: the threat, you know, Joe Biden's not going to send
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: people out to try and kill you or incite, you know,
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: your death. But the conversation, is it really happening?
• 16:50
  Speaker 6: We're trying.
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: We're trying. Not at a senior level. But this morning,
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: everyone's like, it has to be Jill and Barack. And
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: then Barack said no. I know.
• 17:02
  Speaker 6: I don't know what that tweet was all about. Well, look,
• 17:05
  Speaker 6: I think public-facing Democrats are not putting their names to this.
• 17:09
  Speaker 6: But in private, my goodness, are they being honest. Isn't
• 17:12
  Speaker 6: that exciting? These anonymous Democrats are so smart. They're so
• 17:16
  Speaker 6: brave when they don't put their names on it, when
• 17:18
  Speaker 6: they text the reporter.
• 17:20
  Speaker 7: The ultimate collective action problem here, which again, which is
• 17:22
  Speaker 7: what you said, which has been the Republican story since 2016.
• 17:26
  Speaker 7: All these Republicans telling reporters like, we.
• 17:27
  Speaker 6: Don't want Trump. I don't like Trump.
• 17:28
  Speaker 7: I think Trump is crazy, but I don't want to
• 17:30
  Speaker 7: be the one to say that because I don't want
• 17:31
  Speaker 7: to get in trouble.
• 17:32
  Speaker 6: And it's just a very... Yeah, we don't want to
• 17:34
  Speaker 6: be like that. We don't want to be like that.
• 17:36
  Speaker 8: Well, there's two parts to this, right? Like, there is
• 17:37
  Speaker 8: right now.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: It is understandable a lot of people who desperately like
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden, care about Joe Biden, and want to defeat
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump rush to his defense at this moment, right?
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom, who was on everyone's list of someone who
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: would run if the seat became open, was in the
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: spin room.
• 17:52
  Speaker 8: Like, what's he going to say, right?
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: I mean, it would have been cool if he just
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: declared that.
• 17:55
  Speaker 6: That's right. Of course.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: But the person who throws the first stone is not.
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: Going to be the nominee. You don't want to be
• 18:02
  Speaker 5: holding the knife.
• 18:03
  Speaker 7: If you're the one holding the knife, you're not getting
• 18:06
  Speaker 7: the nomination.
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: I would have liked to have watched the debate last
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: night with Dean Phillips. That would have been fun.
• 18:10
  Speaker 6: What did he say?
• 18:11
  Speaker 8: He had asked about it. He had a quote from Gandhi.
• 18:13
  Speaker 6: Something cryptic.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he said, don't speak if it won't upset the
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: silence or something like that. It was very good. But
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: there's going to be another. There is this moment right now.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: And Biden has done a lot. And people have spoken
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: out to stem the immediate bleeding.
• 18:27
  Speaker 8: But the question is going to be what happens in the.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Polls over the next 10 to 14 days. It is
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: possible that this moves it just a little bit, or
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: maybe it moves it a lot. And if it moves
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: it a lot, all of a sudden you're going to
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: have a bunch of people who are Democrats running in
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: red states or purple states or in purple districts who
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: are all of a sudden going to freak out if
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: their numbers drop because of it.
• 18:46
  Speaker 8: And we'll have to see what happens.
• 18:48
  Speaker 7: But the big difference is, because we've talked about this,
• 18:52
  Speaker 7: we all went through this when Obama had a horrible
• 18:54
  Speaker 7: first debate against Mitt Romney. The difference is, first of all,
• 18:59
  Speaker 7: it wasn't as bad as this.
• 19:01
  Speaker 6: The big thing.
• 19:02
  Speaker 7: But even if it was, it was October, right? Barack
• 19:06
  Speaker 7: Obama was the Democratic nominee. Just about every candidate, Republican
• 19:11
  Speaker 7: or Democrat, who has had a terrible disaster of a
• 19:15
  Speaker 7: debate in the presidential debate, it's been in the fall
• 19:18
  Speaker 7: after the party has nominated them officially. And now we
• 19:22
  Speaker 7: are in a situation where, if this was in October,
• 19:26
  Speaker 7: we probably wouldn't be up here talking about this right now.
• 19:28
  Speaker 6: We'd be like, yeah, it sucked.
• 19:30
  Speaker 7: We have a couple weeks to the election, and we
• 19:32
  Speaker 7: all just got to bear down and figure this out.
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: We have five weeks right now.
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: Exactly. We have not nominated Joe Biden yet.
• 19:40
  Speaker 7: Dan, we talked last night about how it's not too
• 19:44
  Speaker 7: late for Joe Biden to step aside if he decides
• 19:48
  Speaker 7: uh the debate fallout is is just too damaging and
• 19:51
  Speaker 7: he has to decide because it is too like it's
• 19:54
  Speaker 7: his decision you can't no one's challenging him that people
• 19:57
  Speaker 7: voted for him the delegates are his like so he's
• 19:59
  Speaker 7: got to decide there are no indications so far that
• 20:02
  Speaker 7: he'll do that but one question we keep getting from
• 20:05
  Speaker 7: everyone is if he were to do that What happens next? Like,
• 20:10
  Speaker 7: what are the steps and what is the Democratic convention
• 20:14
  Speaker 7: in Chicago and.
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: The weeks leading up to it look like?
• 20:18
  Speaker 8: So it's, you made an important point.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: It's not just that no one is going to challenge him,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: it's that no one can challenge him. He has an
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: overwhelming majority of the delegates legally pledged to him. They
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: are legally obligated, in many states by state law, to
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: vote for the winner of the state's popular vote on
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: the first ballot. So if all of a sudden Dean
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Phillips or some other Democrat were to come out and say,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: this is a bad idea, I'm going to challenge him,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: that means nothing. That person has no access to delegates.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: They could possibly get the sliver of uncommitted delegates from
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: people who voted uncommitted in the primaries, but that would
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: be nowhere near what you would need. So I think
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: if Joe Biden were to decide tomorrow that he was
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: not going to run, he was going to step aside,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: he was going to finish his term as president but
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: not run for re-election.
• 20:59
  Speaker 8: There are two paths.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: The first path is he steps aside and he says,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: I am endorsing Kamala Harris, my vice president, to be
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: the party's nominee. Someone could challenge her, but what likely
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: happens there is that all of Biden's delegates, if he's
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: not running, become unpledged.
• 21:14
  Speaker 8: They can vote for anyone on the first ballot.
• 21:15
  Speaker 6: But they're all.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: People that his campaign handpicked and are loyal to the president.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: So if he were to say, I would like my
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: delegates to support my vice president. She likely becomes a nominee.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: The party coalesces around her. I'd be shocked if anyone
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: of consequence, the other people we talk about, Newsom, Whitmer,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: et cetera, were to run. And so the general election
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: against Donald Trump would start that day. She'd be the
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: presumptive nominee. She would have to pick a vice presidential nominee.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: She'd still have to be ratified by the convention, but
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: that'd be a no drama event. And we would just
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: be off and running Kamala Harris versus Donald Trump. Maybe
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: she ends up debating him in September. That proves it's
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: a scheduled debate. The other option would be that Biden
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: steps aside and says, I'm going to let the process
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: play itself out. Some number of Democrats, more than five,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: maybe as many as 50, would announce they're running for president.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: And those people would begin a sprint to get support
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: from delegates. They would do meetings. They'd seek endorsements. They'd
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: come on Pod Save America at every possible opportunity. And
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: they would head towards the convention. And we'd get to
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: the convention. And it's theoretically possible that someone, a person
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: or a ticket that formed together could amass endorsements from
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: enough delegates that others would drop out. But the most
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: likely scenario is what we call a brokered convention. They
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: would go there and they would address the convention. The
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: delegates would vote. You would need to get just about 2,000
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: votes to win because you have to get the majority.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: It's not plurality. You have to get a majority of
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: the delegates. So you'd have your five candidates who make
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: it all the way there. They all address the convention.
• 22:46
  Speaker 8: Convention votes.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Almost certainly no one gets a majority in that scenario.
• 22:49
  Speaker 8: They vote again.
• 22:51
  Speaker 6: And then the second vote, the superdelegates come in, right?
• 22:54
  Speaker 8: Second vote, the superdelegates come in.
• 22:56
  Speaker 7: The superdelegates, 700 superdelegates are party officials, elected officials, former presidents,
• 23:03
  Speaker 7: former party chairs.
• 23:04
  Speaker 6: They all get a vote.
• 23:05
  Speaker 7: Um, they used to be more involved in the process
• 23:07
  Speaker 7: than they weren't because it was like too much influence
• 23:10
  Speaker 7: from party insiders. And so now they can't vote in
• 23:12
  Speaker 7: the first ballot, but in the second ballot, the super delegates, right?
• 23:14
  Speaker 8: They can't, they can't pick the nominee.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: They can't influence who becomes the nominee on the first ballot,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: but they can get involved in the second ballot and
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: you just keep voting and keep voting and keep voting
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: until you get an actual nominee. This was actually an
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: episode of the West wing at one time, which is why,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: this is why everyone calls this Sorkin ask fan fiction.
• 23:34
  Speaker 6: Um, And twist, it worked.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: In that case, it did work. And so the question is,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: that could be incredibly messy. It could be incredibly divisive.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Or it could be a process that ends with everyone
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: understanding that whoever eventually gets the majority, we're going to
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: coalesce behind them because there is nothing more important than
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: beating Donald Trump.
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: Dan, that is what you just did. is a fantastic
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: and invaluable explainer. But just for the crowd, I just
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: want you to add on something else. What happens between
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: August and November? If Biden pulls out, or God forbid,
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: something happens to his health?
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Well, I left out actually a very important wrinkle in
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: this whole process, which is as of right now, the
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: DNC is actually planning on scheduling a virtual roll call
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: so that Joe Biden can officially become the nominee before
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: the convention, because in order to be on the ballot
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: by state law in Ohio, you have to have the
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: nominee by August 7th. Our convention starts on August 19th.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: So we would have to either cancel that roll call,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: you'd have to move it up and do this all
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: by virtual roll call, which seems impossible to me, or
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: you'd have to get Ohio to change the law, which
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: they do not want to do, because they don't want
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: to make things easy for us.
• 24:44
  Speaker 6: And it's a Republican governor in a.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Republican state, so they're not going to... Or agreed not
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: to be on the ballot in Ohio. Now that seems.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: We're not competing, Biden's not gonna compete in Ohio, or
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: are there Democrats not gonna compete in Ohio, but not
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: having a presidential candidate on the ballot could, because Trump
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: will be on the ballot, could affect turnout for Sherrod
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Brown and congressional races there. So that is an important wrinkle.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Now what happens if Biden were to decide afterwards? The
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: DNC actually scarily explored this in 2016 when Hillary Clinton
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: had that incident on 9-11, where she had a concussion,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: and would the DNC members would get together and pick
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: a new nominee. Now, that person would almost certainly be
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Kamala Harris because she would be the one person who
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: had been ratified by a majority of the delegates as
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: vice president.
• 25:35
  Speaker 8: But so they have the power to change it.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Now, it's even more complicated if the states have printed
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: their ballots. Because we've had situations in the past, like
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: in 2000 when the governor of Missouri died in a
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: plane crash, his name was on the ballot.
• 25:49
  Speaker 8: And he ended up winning. His wife said she would
• 25:51
  Speaker 8: fill his seat.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: So you could be in a world, if that were
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: to happen, Biden could still be on the ballot, but
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: not running for president.
• 25:57
  Speaker 8: But a vote for Biden could elect. So it's complicated.
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: Democracy.
• 26:02
  Speaker 6: Everybody feels good?
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: How's that? Is that good? Happy Friday. You're thinking about it.
• 26:08
  Speaker 5: All right. When we come back, we are bringing out
• 26:12
  Speaker 5: your governor, Maura Healey.
• 26:14
  Speaker 6: Thank you.
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: Welcome back.
• 26:31
  Speaker 7: So, we are in Boston to help launch our new book,
• 26:35
  Speaker 7: Democracy or Else. Seems like Else is winning right now,
• 26:42
  Speaker 7: but that's okay. But because Tommy and I are proud massholes....
• 26:53
  Speaker 6: We're always looking for an excuse to come back home.
• 26:56
  Speaker 7: And we are especially excited to be here right now
• 27:00
  Speaker 7: that you've elected a fantastic Democrat to represent the Commonwealth again.
• 27:06
  Speaker 6: Please welcome to.
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: The stage your governor, Maura Healey. Oh, my God. This
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: is the best thing ever. Are you kidding me? Thank you.
• 27:26
  Speaker 9: Holy shit, there's a lot of sugar in this.
• 27:31
  Speaker 6: Oh, my God. Not enough for me.
• 27:33
  Speaker 9: This reminds me of the summer I spent, the summer
• 27:36
  Speaker 9: between high school and college. I painted the exterior of houses,
• 27:40
  Speaker 9: and I would get a Duncan this tall, extra sugar,
• 27:44
  Speaker 9: triple cream, you know, kind of White goop up to here,
• 27:47
  Speaker 9: so thank you very much.
• 27:48
  Speaker 10: And it's hard to paint at 10 o'clock at night
• 27:49
  Speaker 10: because you'd still be up.
• 27:51
  Speaker 6: Exactly.
• 27:51
  Speaker 7: Governor, I will tell you what this reminds me of
• 27:54
  Speaker 7: a couple hours ago. Because I have had four of
• 28:00
  Speaker 7: these since we've been in Boston. It's amazing.
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: And he had like six in New York, too. Six
• 28:05
  Speaker 5: in New York, too.
• 28:06
  Speaker 6: I love Dunkin' Donuts.
• 28:07
  Speaker 9: John Postmates Dunkin' Donuts to his house in Los Angeles.
• 28:10
  Speaker 6: I do.
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: He like lives and dies this time.
• 28:12
  Speaker 6: And you know what?
• 28:13
  Speaker 7: I Postmate the coffee with this exact donut because my
• 28:15
  Speaker 7: son Charlie is obsessed with this donut.
• 28:18
  Speaker 6: So thank you. This is amazing.
• 28:19
  Speaker 10: Well, good for Charlie. Welcome home, guys.
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: Thank you.
• 28:22
  Speaker 10: Let's welcome these guys back to Massachusetts. Honestly, right? North Reading.
• 28:30
  Speaker 10: We have North Reading in the house.
• 28:32
  Speaker 6: North Rennie. Yeah. All right.
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: Here we go.
• 28:36
  Speaker 6: Here we go.
• 28:37
  Speaker 8: And Woosta.
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: Hornet. And Dedham.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: Dedham.
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: What's up, Dedham?
• 28:45
  Speaker 6: Amazing.
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: How are you?
• 28:49
  Speaker 10: I said Dedham, not Dover.
• 28:50
  Speaker 6: Oh, no. Dedham.
• 28:51
  Speaker 5: I'm Dedham. My mom's Dover.
• 28:55
  Speaker 6: All right.
• 28:56
  Speaker 7: So I want to start with a topic I know
• 28:59
  Speaker 7: you must be as excited as we are to talk about.
• 29:01
  Speaker 7: Last night's debate. So I love Joe Biden. I support
• 29:06
  Speaker 7: Joe Biden. I am eternally grateful to Joe Biden for
• 29:10
  Speaker 7: defeating Donald Trump and for accomplishing just an amazing number
• 29:15
  Speaker 7: of things as president. As you just heard us talk about,
• 29:23
  Speaker 7: what I am worried about is Joe Biden's ability to
• 29:26
  Speaker 7: defeat Donald Trump again. What about Joe Biden's performance last
• 29:31
  Speaker 7: night makes you... you confident that he can beat Donald
• 29:34
  Speaker 7: Trump again?
• 29:35
  Speaker 10: Well, I was gonna say how about those Celtics.
• 29:38
  Speaker 11: Um see yeah that would have been easier no I
• 29:41
  Speaker 11: mean I think what we got to remember here this
• 29:43
  Speaker 11: is about defeating Donald Trump and for all of uh
• 29:47
  Speaker 11: Joe Biden's failures last night and it was a big
• 29:50
  Speaker 11: fail I mean that was horrible it was tough to
• 29:52
  Speaker 11: watch We also had standing next to him somebody who
• 29:56
  Speaker 11: just repeatedly lied. And actually, if you weren't so distracted
• 30:00
  Speaker 11: watching Joe Biden and listened, what he said was downright scary.
• 30:05
  Speaker 11: So I think, John, part of what gives me confidence
• 30:07
  Speaker 11: is that this is about defeating Donald Trump. What he
• 30:10
  Speaker 11: says he will do, what he's talked about. Because if
• 30:13
  Speaker 11: there's one thing we know from the Trump years, as
• 30:16
  Speaker 11: the guy who brags to this day about overturning Roe,
• 30:19
  Speaker 11: when he says something, he's going to do it.
• 30:23
  Speaker 10: So I think that's where we are right now.
• 30:25
  Speaker 11: And we need to settle from the other night, but
• 30:28
  Speaker 11: continue to really press on what this is about. And
• 30:31
  Speaker 11: this is about keeping Donald Trump out of the Oval Office.
• 30:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah, no, for sure.
• 30:35
  Speaker 11: And I think it's also about talking about What has
• 30:41
  Speaker 11: happened the last few years that has been good.
• 30:43
  Speaker 10: People's rights and freedoms have been protected. We're on a
• 30:46
  Speaker 10: new course.
• 30:47
  Speaker 11: We see the benefit of it here in Massachusetts, where
• 30:49
  Speaker 11: we are home to North America's first utility-scale offshore wind facility.
• 30:54
  Speaker 11: All of that is happening because Joe Biden and that
• 30:58
  Speaker 11: administration is standing up a climate economy. So these are
• 31:01
  Speaker 11: some of the good things that we really need to
• 31:03
  Speaker 11: be focused on and talking about and that are very important.
• 31:05
  Speaker 10: I mean, look at the healthy economy.
• 31:07
  Speaker 11: How many students are worried about debt right now? How
• 31:10
  Speaker 11: many young people can't afford homes right now? Joe Biden's
• 31:13
  Speaker 11: building homes. He's relieving student debt, right? He's finding ways
• 31:17
  Speaker 11: to grow salaries. We've got a problem with inflation, no doubt, right?
• 31:21
  Speaker 11: But we had a heck of a lot to come
• 31:23
  Speaker 11: out of and to come through.
• 31:24
  Speaker 7: Yeah, and he's done an incredible job and he's clearly
• 31:28
  Speaker 7: a better choice on every single issue. A couple other
• 31:30
  Speaker 7: New England Democrats were asked about this today. Senator Jean
• 31:34
  Speaker 7: Shaheen said, we'll let the process play out. Senator Jack
• 31:38
  Speaker 7: Reed from Rhode Island said, it's Joe Biden's decision. If
• 31:41
  Speaker 7: Joe Biden called you and asked for your advice and said,
• 31:44
  Speaker 7: you know, I'm not sure what I should do.
• 31:46
  Speaker 6: Should I stay in? Should I not? What would you
• 31:49
  Speaker 6: tell Joe Biden?
• 31:50
  Speaker 11: You know, the one thing I think I believe so
• 31:53
  Speaker 11: deeply about Joe Biden is that he is a true patriot.
• 31:57
  Speaker 11: He loves this country and he's a thoroughly decent human being.
• 32:06
  Speaker 11: I don't think it's about telling Joe Biden anything.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: OK, OK.
• 32:11
  Speaker 9: So, Governor, you kind of you tick through some of
• 32:14
  Speaker 9: President Biden's accomplishments that helped younger voters. but it's a
• 32:19
  Speaker 9: fact that the Biden campaign is doing very well with
• 32:22
  Speaker 9: people over 65, but is struggling badly with younger voters.
• 32:26
  Speaker 9: How do you think the campaign should tweak its message
• 32:30
  Speaker 9: or its policy to make sure that they're appealing to
• 32:34
  Speaker 9: Bill Belichick and his girlfriend?
• 32:42
  Speaker 6: Ouch! Ouch.
• 32:52
  Speaker 10: You got this guy. Do you know, we got this
• 32:54
  Speaker 10: new guy though. It's Gerard Mayo.
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: Great coach.
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: Good things.
• 32:58
  Speaker 10: You know, we just, we're going to build on winning
• 33:01
  Speaker 10: streaks here. You know, I don't know. More. 5s maybe?
• 33:05
  Speaker 10: I think it's about talking to the issues. I mean,
• 33:11
  Speaker 10: this is about defeating Donald Trump.
• 33:13
  Speaker 11: But I'll tell you, the one thing we have to
• 33:15
  Speaker 11: do is remind young people that what this is about.
• 33:18
  Speaker 11: Young people care about the economy. They actually want to
• 33:20
  Speaker 11: be able to afford a house. They want to be
• 33:22
  Speaker 11: able to afford to have a kid, right?
• 33:24
  Speaker 10: They want to be able to grow in a career
• 33:26
  Speaker 10: and in opportunities.
• 33:27
  Speaker 11: And Donald Trump's the guy who all he did was
• 33:31
  Speaker 11: cut taxes for the very, very wealthy. It's been Democrats
• 33:35
  Speaker 11: who've been finding ways to relieve student debt, to build
• 33:39
  Speaker 11: more housing, to support the middle class.
• 33:41
  Speaker 10: It's Donald Trump who wants to.
• 33:43
  Speaker 11: Raise costs including by doing things like cutting Social Security
• 33:46
  Speaker 11: and cutting Medicare, which are for an older population. But
• 33:50
  Speaker 11: those are also people's parents, right? So if you're young,
• 33:53
  Speaker 11: you care about the economy. You care about health care.
• 33:55
  Speaker 11: You sure care about access to reproductive health care. Did
• 34:00
  Speaker 11: you know in Worcester, John knows this. John spent a
• 34:03
  Speaker 11: lot of time at the Cross.
• 34:05
  Speaker 6: The Cross. The Cross.
• 34:06
  Speaker 10: And we love Bob Cousy. Do you know what else.
• 34:11
  Speaker 11: Worcester produced, other than the amazing fabs, the birth control pill.
• 34:17
  Speaker 10: You got it.
• 34:19
  Speaker 11: So young people, you know, young people actually care about
• 34:23
  Speaker 11: things like having access to contraception and.
• 34:26
  Speaker 10: Health care generally. And they care a lot about climate.
• 34:29
  Speaker 11: They care a lot about climate and they are not
• 34:31
  Speaker 11: going to be well served by somebody who is just
• 34:34
  Speaker 11: going to allow billionaires and fossil fuel CEOs to write
• 34:38
  Speaker 11: a check and determine the fate of this country and
• 34:40
  Speaker 11: this planet.
• 34:41
  Speaker 10: That's what young people have to know.
• 34:45
  Speaker 5: Didn't Clarence Thomas go to Holy Cross?
• 34:48
  Speaker 6: He did.
• 34:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, me and Clarence Thomas and Bill Simmons.
• 34:52
  Speaker 9: When it comes to birth control, Worcester giveth and taketh away,
• 34:55
  Speaker 9: I suppose.
• 34:58
  Speaker 6: Tough, tough but fair.
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: Apologies.
• 35:01
  Speaker 9: So, Governor, you recently sent a team down to the
• 35:03
  Speaker 9: border to basically educate migrants about the lack of space
• 35:07
  Speaker 9: in homeless shelters here in Massachusetts. For those who don't know,
• 35:10
  Speaker 9: I believe Massachusetts is the only state in the country
• 35:12
  Speaker 9: that has a right to shelter law. I believe it
• 35:16
  Speaker 9: was passed in 1983 by Governor Dukakis. an incredibly kind, decent,
• 35:21
  Speaker 9: empathetic effort that I think has been sort of overtaken
• 35:24
  Speaker 9: by events, right, because of changes in migration. What does
• 35:28
  Speaker 9: it say to you about how broken our immigration system
• 35:32
  Speaker 9: is when the governor of a state sort of has
• 35:34
  Speaker 9: to send delegates to essentially say, please don't come to
• 35:37
  Speaker 9: our state because it might overwhelm the services? I mean,
• 35:41
  Speaker 9: how can you even address that?
• 35:42
  Speaker 10: Yeah, Tommy, well, I mean, this is not a new issue.
• 35:45
  Speaker 11: And most recently, it's Republicans in Congress saying, who passed twice,
• 35:50
  Speaker 11: failed to take action on necessary border reform, immigration reform,
• 35:54
  Speaker 11: that would have included relief for states like Massachusetts that
• 35:57
  Speaker 11: are now having to house this extraordinary number of new
• 36:01
  Speaker 11: migrants because of the geopolitical situation and the violence in
• 36:05
  Speaker 11: other countries. So that's just a damn shame, right? That
• 36:09
  Speaker 11: there was a path, there were things that were going
• 36:12
  Speaker 11: to be done. So I support the president's executive action.
• 36:16
  Speaker 11: I think that's absolutely necessary. And what I've said here,
• 36:19
  Speaker 11: and I'm proud of the people of Massachusetts because we
• 36:22
  Speaker 11: have found ways to house people, but we've reached full
• 36:25
  Speaker 11: capacity here. The good news is we've been able to
• 36:28
  Speaker 11: process people for work permits. So about 3,700 out of 4,000
• 36:32
  Speaker 11: have been processed for work permits.
• 36:35
  Speaker 10: They're working now. They're taking ESL, right? And they're here lawfully.
• 36:42
  Speaker 11: But I wanted to send folks to the border because
• 36:45
  Speaker 11: I needed to communicate to service providers and others there
• 36:48
  Speaker 11: the situation here in Massachusetts. You know, we are a
• 36:52
  Speaker 11: humane people and we are a humane state, but we
• 36:55
  Speaker 11: don't want people coming here if we're not going to
• 36:56
  Speaker 11: be able to safely house them.
• 36:57
  Speaker 10: That's where we're at.
• 36:58
  Speaker 11: But what needs to happen is that this is a
• 37:01
  Speaker 11: federal issue. The federal government and Congress needs to act.
• 37:05
  Speaker 11: And if you put governors in the room and they
• 37:07
  Speaker 11: were honest with you, Republican and Democrat, we'd sort this
• 37:10
  Speaker 11: out because, you know, we know what needs to happen.
• 37:13
  Speaker 11: But there's a lack of political will right now and
• 37:16
  Speaker 11: a lot of– obviously politics and gamesmanship. And it's ridiculous
• 37:21
  Speaker 11: because people are paying the price.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: So.
• 37:27
  Speaker 7: You mentioned some of what you've been doing around the
• 37:30
  Speaker 7: issue of abortion. You recently asked health care providers in
• 37:33
  Speaker 7: the state to stockpile doses of abortion medication.
• 37:37
  Speaker 6: You said this week... You said....
• 37:43
  Speaker 7: You said this week that if Trump and Republicans in
• 37:47
  Speaker 7: a possible Trump administration actually enact a national abortion ban,
• 37:51
  Speaker 7: that you would absolutely not enforce it in the state.
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: How....
• 38:15
  Speaker 7: How confident are you that could withstand legal challenges and
• 38:22
  Speaker 7: a potential future administration that has talked about sending federal
• 38:26
  Speaker 7: agents and troops into recalcitrant blue states that don't pay
• 38:31
  Speaker 7: attention to what they want to do on abortion, immigration?
• 38:35
  Speaker 6: How are you thinking about that?
• 38:36
  Speaker 11: Well, I'm just thinking about what's right, you know, and
• 38:39
  Speaker 11: I can wear my old hat as an attorney general
• 38:41
  Speaker 11: and talk about.
• 38:42
  Speaker 10: Protecting the freedom of choice, the freedom of bodily autonomy.
• 38:47
  Speaker 11: I mean, how outrageous is it that right now, because
• 38:50
  Speaker 11: of Donald Trump and what he said he would do,
• 38:52
  Speaker 11: which he then did in overturning Roe, one in three
• 38:55
  Speaker 11: American women live in a state with an abortion ban.
• 38:59
  Speaker 10: I mean, it's outrageous.
• 39:00
  Speaker 11: So I think my job is to make sure in Massachusetts,
• 39:04
  Speaker 11: you know, after Dobbs, we stockpiled doses of Miffy. So
• 39:07
  Speaker 11: we have those for years to come because I want
• 39:09
  Speaker 11: women here protected. We passed laws to make sure that
• 39:12
  Speaker 11: patients and providers here and elsewhere were protected. And yes,
• 39:17
  Speaker 11: this week I issued an executive order knowing this case
• 39:20
  Speaker 11: was up and coming out of the Supreme Court that said,
• 39:24
  Speaker 11: in Massachusetts, let's be clear, any woman who needs emergency
• 39:28
  Speaker 11: care including emergency abortion care, hospitals are going to provide
• 39:33
  Speaker 11: it and insurers are going to cover it.
• 39:35
  Speaker 10: That is the way it's going to continue to be.
• 39:38
  Speaker 6: So I....
• 39:52
  Speaker 9: Governor, when I was a kid, when John was a kid,
• 39:58
  Speaker 9: New York was our sports rival. The Yankees always beat us.
• 40:03
  Speaker 9: The Mets and the Rangers had like one year each.
• 40:05
  Speaker 9: We won't talk about it. We lost some games to
• 40:08
  Speaker 9: the Jets in the regular season.
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: The Knicks were okay. Now the whole state is pathetic.
• 40:16
  Speaker 6: Do we need a.
• 40:18
  Speaker 9: New rival to replace New York when it comes to sports?
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: Ouch.
• 40:27
  Speaker 10: I love that. And we also got to tweak Dan, right?
• 40:29
  Speaker 10: Because Dan's from Philly.
• 40:33
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 40:34
  Speaker 10: I mean, it's really, isn't it a shame?
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: Is it, do you ever get sick of riding on
• 40:41
  Speaker 5: duck boats? Good times.
• 40:46
  Speaker 11: That, we've been so blessed, right?
• 40:50
  Speaker 9: Yes.
• 40:50
  Speaker 10: Yes.
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: Is the duck boat maintenance bill through the roof?
• 40:55
  Speaker 6: You got to get some budget cuts?
• 40:56
  Speaker 10: It's the tires. You know, they wear.
• 41:00
  Speaker 9: Seriously, you were telling us upstairs how much you love
• 41:03
  Speaker 9: this Celtics team, how fun it was to be out
• 41:05
  Speaker 9: with them. I mean, just talk about it for me
• 41:08
  Speaker 9: because you are a basketball fan. You are a basketball player.
• 41:11
  Speaker 9: So you understand the sport. You've lived and bled on
• 41:14
  Speaker 9: the court with folks. Tell us what this team meant
• 41:17
  Speaker 9: to you.
• 41:18
  Speaker 10: Well, who's from Massachusetts here, right? Yes. I mean, this
• 41:23
  Speaker 10: team was awesome.
• 41:25
  Speaker 11: And they're just, to a person, such incredible humans. They're
• 41:28
  Speaker 11: out in the community. They're doing all sorts of things.
• 41:31
  Speaker 11: But what I loved about this team, and it reminds
• 41:33
  Speaker 11: me of 86, too, and you're too young, but we
• 41:35
  Speaker 11: had these guys, Bird.
• 41:37
  Speaker 10: That's Larry Bird.
• 41:40
  Speaker 11: Parrish and McHale and Ainge and DJ, these guys. And
• 41:44
  Speaker 11: they were superstars, but on any given night, people were
• 41:47
  Speaker 11: ready to step up and play. And with this team,
• 41:49
  Speaker 11: it was the same thing. You know, we had all
• 41:50
  Speaker 11: these people who were like, any given night, somebody was
• 41:53
  Speaker 11: ready to show. And so the other thing I like
• 41:56
  Speaker 11: about this team is it's really hard if you're number
• 41:58
  Speaker 11: one and you're at the top to go into the
• 42:01
  Speaker 11: playoffs with that pressure and perform the way they did.
• 42:04
  Speaker 11: And it's super cool. They're built for success. So hopefully...
• 42:10
  Speaker 11: We'll give them a break and root on our Red
• 42:14
  Speaker 11: Sox and our Patriots and soon it'll be back in the.
• 42:19
  Speaker 10: Garden for the Celts.
• 42:20
  Speaker 9: So I saw that a couple weeks ago you named,
• 42:23
  Speaker 9: I think it was June 12th, Tom Brady Day.
• 42:27
  Speaker 5: You said... Issued a proclamation that he was a goat.
• 42:29
  Speaker 9: We love goat debates here, and I guess we're sports
• 42:31
  Speaker 9: media for the next six minutes.
• 42:36
  Speaker 5: None of our listeners know what the fuck we're talking about, right?
• 42:39
  Speaker 5: The Venn diagram for this episode is like one guy.
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: He works for us.
• 42:43
  Speaker 9: His name is Elijah. Let's do something really annoying for you.
• 42:48
  Speaker 9: Can we rank the following Celtics greats? Larry Bird, Jalen Brown,
• 42:53
  Speaker 9: Jason Tatum, Paul Pierce, Bill Russell.
• 42:55
  Speaker 6: Wow.
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 42:59
  Speaker 11: Well, let me go through all different eras, okay? I
• 43:05
  Speaker 11: go back to Bill Russell, who played with Cousy. Bill Russell, iconic.
• 43:08
  Speaker 10: His civil rights.
• 43:10
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 43:10
  Speaker 10: All the work that he advanced.
• 43:12
  Speaker 5: Just an incredible, incredible athlete. Holy Cross also gave us
• 43:15
  Speaker 5: Bob Cousy.
• 43:15
  Speaker 6: Enough with Clarence Thomas.
• 43:16
  Speaker 5: You know what you did.
• 43:19
  Speaker 10: So, you know, it's hard to.
• 43:20
  Speaker 11: He's in his own category. And then Larry Bird, you know,
• 43:23
  Speaker 11: he's in his own category. The way he saw the
• 43:26
  Speaker 11: floor and everything that he was able to do uh
• 43:28
  Speaker 11: j the j's you know here they're starting out they're
• 43:32
  Speaker 11: 26 27 so let's give them a few years you
• 43:33
  Speaker 11: know and i love paul it was great to see
• 43:35
  Speaker 11: paul back with his headband in the garden um he
• 43:38
  Speaker 11: also had a had a good title so that is
• 43:40
  Speaker 11: a very politic way of.
• 43:41
  Speaker 9: Non-responding smart smart uh i would say beautifully handled and
• 43:47
  Speaker 9: uh paul pierce if you're listening stay off the live
• 43:50
  Speaker 9: streams you know.
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: Another joke for like seven people. Governor Healy, thank you
• 43:57
  Speaker 5: so much for joining us. Fantastic.
• 44:00
  Speaker 10: Thank you.
• 44:13
  Speaker 6: The audacity of Bostonians. Taboo New York City, you are
• 44:21
  Speaker 6: Philadelphia with smarter assholes and worse sandwiches. What the fuck, man? Unbelievable.
• 44:33
  Speaker 6: Just because you have cobblestones on the street doesn't make
• 44:35
  Speaker 6: you fucking sophisticated.
• 44:36
  Speaker 7: You need to talk shit about the fucking Freedom Trail, huh?
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
• 44:47
  Speaker 5: Come on.
• 44:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah. The second you're cornered, it's Liberty Bell, Liberty Bell,
• 44:51
  Speaker 6: Liberty Bell. Hey.
• 44:54
  Speaker 7: Y'all heard Governor Healy's answer on whether Joe Biden should
• 44:57
  Speaker 7: stay in the race. This is something we didn't just
• 45:00
  Speaker 7: pick on her. Every single current and former Democratic elected
• 45:04
  Speaker 7: official has been asked today. So far, no Democrat in
• 45:08
  Speaker 7: higher office has called for him to step aside. And
• 45:11
  Speaker 7: the responses, when asked, have ranged from, vague hedging to
• 45:17
  Speaker 7: full-throated defense of Biden as the nominee.
• 45:20
  Speaker 6: Here's a sample.
• 45:20
  Speaker 5: We've got to have the back of this president.
• 45:22
  Speaker 8: You don't turn your back because of one performance. What
• 45:25
  Speaker 8: kind of party does that?
• 45:26
  Speaker 5: You go home with the one that brought you to
• 45:28
  Speaker 5: the dance.
• 45:28
  Speaker 8: 100%, all in.
• 45:30
  Speaker 7: Do you think President Biden's the best messenger for the
• 45:33
  Speaker 7: top of the ticket?
• 45:34
  Speaker 6: I'm a very big supporter of President Biden.
• 45:37
  Speaker 10: He's been a great president and done great things.
• 45:39
  Speaker 6: For our country.
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 45:41
  Speaker 7: There were calls even inside the House in the Democratic
• 45:44
  Speaker 7: Party that he should step aside as the nominee.
• 45:46
  Speaker 5: What do you say to that?
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: This is an administration that gets things done, and it's
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: because of his leadership.
• 45:53
  Speaker 5: It's his decision what he wants to do going forward.
• 45:56
  Speaker 6: What are you going to tell him?
• 46:02
  Speaker 11: Joe Biden had one thing he had to do tonight,
• 46:05
  Speaker 11: and that was reassure America that he was up to
• 46:08
  Speaker 11: the job at his age.
• 46:11
  Speaker 10: And he failed at that tonight.
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: So I'd say things are a bit in flux right now.
• 46:17
  Speaker 7: And since we said on last night's episode and we
• 46:20
  Speaker 7: just talked about earlier that Democrats should not be afraid
• 46:23
  Speaker 7: to have an honest debate about this issue in public.
• 46:26
  Speaker 7: We're going to kick things off right now. And who
• 46:29
  Speaker 7: better to have with us to do this than Mehdi,
• 46:31
  Speaker 7: one of the best debaters and author of How to
• 46:34
  Speaker 7: Win Every Argument.
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: Love it.
• 46:38
  Speaker 6: How's this going to work? What do we do? What
• 46:45
  Speaker 6: happens next? Could it work?
• 46:48
  Speaker 5: Should we?
• 46:49
  Speaker 6: That's not just what happened after Tommy and I accidentally
• 46:51
  Speaker 6: brushed hands once after three martinis. That's what Democrats across
• 47:04
  Speaker 6: the country who admire and respect Joe Biden but worry
• 47:06
  Speaker 6: about whether he is the right person to take on
• 47:08
  Speaker 6: Trump are asking each other. And there are good arguments
• 47:12
  Speaker 6: for sticking with Joe Biden and good arguments for seeking
• 47:14
  Speaker 6: an open convention. So we're going to debate it right
• 47:17
  Speaker 6: here on stage. Here's how it works. John, Mehdi, Tommy,
• 47:21
  Speaker 6: and Dan will form two teams at random. One... is
• 47:24
  Speaker 6: riding with Biden into victory, the abyss, wherever. The other
• 47:31
  Speaker 6: wants to do to the democratic convention what a gay
• 47:33
  Speaker 6: couple does to their relationship after a long and difficult
• 47:36
  Speaker 6: conversation in Palm Springs. Open it up. So first we
• 47:48
  Speaker 6: will choose teams. Austin, bring out the ceremonial hat. Austin, everybody.
• 47:56
  Speaker 6: It's Austin's birthday tomorrow.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: What?
• 48:00
  Speaker 6: Happy birthday, Austin. Happy birthday. First, we will choose the
• 48:06
  Speaker 6: pro-Biden team, all right? And then I guess by process elimination,
• 48:09
  Speaker 6: we'll get the other team. It's only four names in
• 48:12
  Speaker 6: the hat.
• 48:14
  Speaker 5: Our names are in the hat?
• 48:15
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it should have been teams in the hat. Come on.
• 48:18
  Speaker 6: What the hell?
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: Hold on. We're pro-Biden and just anti-Biden. We're not pro-another candidate.
• 48:23
  Speaker 6: You are pro-Biden remaining the candidate.
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: And what's the other side?
• 48:26
  Speaker 6: The other side is wanting an open convention. Got it.
• 48:29
  Speaker 6: Wanting Biden to step aside and have an open convention.
• 48:31
  Speaker 6: All right. We'll do Biden's side first. The Biden side
• 48:35
  Speaker 6: will be Dan... And Tommy.
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: Oh, wow.
• 48:41
  Speaker 6: So stay right there. No, that worked out well. Medi
• 48:43
  Speaker 6: and John.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: The upside is we don't have to move seats.
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: What?
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: Big win.
• 48:47
  Speaker 6: We don't have to move seats. Don't have to move seats.
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I love that.
• 48:50
  Speaker 6: So Medi and John will argue for an open convention.
• 48:53
  Speaker 6: Each team will have an opening statement. Each team will
• 48:55
  Speaker 6: have a rebuttal. Then we will converse. The timing will
• 48:58
  Speaker 6: be at my discretion. The rules are loose. The microphones
• 49:02
  Speaker 6: will not be muted.
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 49:03
  Speaker 6: Because we're all adults who live in a society. We
• 49:10
  Speaker 6: begin with Team Joe. One of you can issue the
• 49:14
  Speaker 6: opening remarks.
• 49:16
  Speaker 5: Sure, sure.
• 49:17
  Speaker 6: You want me to do it?
• 49:19
  Speaker 5: Happy to.
• 49:19
  Speaker 6: Or let rip?
• 49:20
  Speaker 8: Go for it, you do it.
• 49:21
  Speaker 9: Okay, so we're, Joe Biden, here's the reason he should
• 49:24
  Speaker 9: stay in this whole thing. It was one debate, you
• 49:29
  Speaker 9: spineless weenies.
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 49:32
  Speaker 9: Biden did poorly in almost every single primary debate in 2020,
• 49:36
  Speaker 9: and then he won. we're making way too big a
• 49:39
  Speaker 9: deal of this. Also, the period between now and the
• 49:42
  Speaker 9: election is an eternity in political terms.
• 49:45
  Speaker 5: Remember the insurrection? Neither does anybody else.
• 49:48
  Speaker 6: Calm down. Joe Biden was.
• 49:50
  Speaker 9: Counted out in 2020. He was counted out in 2022.
• 49:53
  Speaker 9: He showed all of you what he was made of,
• 49:55
  Speaker 9: and he'll do it again. Joe Biden exiting the stage
• 49:58
  Speaker 9: right now will lead to nothing but chaos. There is
• 50:01
  Speaker 9: no clear or obvious choice for who would succeed him.
• 50:04
  Speaker 9: The process would be messy and disastrous. There will be factions.
• 50:08
  Speaker 9: There will be vicious attacks. It will be a disaster,
• 50:11
  Speaker 9: and the worst of the party will be on display
• 50:13
  Speaker 9: for the entire world to see. And finally, you can
• 50:15
  Speaker 9: get elected statewide in a state like California or Michigan
• 50:20
  Speaker 9: or wherever, and you get vetted by the press, kind of,
• 50:23
  Speaker 9: but nothing compares to the proctology exam that is running
• 50:26
  Speaker 9: for president. Every human being has skeletons in his or
• 50:30
  Speaker 9: her closet. They will come out during the general election,
• 50:34
  Speaker 9: and there will not be time for the Democratic Party
• 50:37
  Speaker 9: to vet them beforehand. Stick with Joe Biden.
• 50:40
  Speaker 5: We know him.
• 50:41
  Speaker 9: He got us here. Go home with the horse you
• 50:45
  Speaker 9: dated or some shit. Whatever Newsom said.
• 50:47
  Speaker 7: Go home with the alley cat that brought you.
• 50:52
  Speaker 6: Fuck that alley cat. Wow. Powerful words. Rough landing, but
• 51:02
  Speaker 6: he got there. Much like Joe Biden at his best.
• 51:09
  Speaker 6: That's your fucking line? Okay. They're mad about the sandwich thing. Mehdi,
• 51:13
  Speaker 6: you want to take us away for the Broker Jokers?
• 51:16
  Speaker 6: I do.
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: I do want to go first because I wasn't going
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: to go first, but then I heard Tommy speak and
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: I thought, this is just too easy.
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 51:23
  Speaker 9: This is like when I was in the White House
• 51:25
  Speaker 9: and met you with a journalist and used to kick
• 51:26
  Speaker 9: our ass.
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: You know what Tommy said? You know what Tommy said?
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: To lose the entire debate? He said it's an eternity
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: until the election. So if it's an eternity until the election,
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: why the fuck do you want an 81-year-old guy waiting
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: for an eternity? I don't want to wait any longer.
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: Four months? Yeah, that's an eternity. My dad is 86
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: years old. He's one of the smartest, most knowledgeable, most
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: hardworking people I've ever met. My dad doesn't want to
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: be put in charge of anything right now, let alone
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: the nuclear codes. And by the way, when you're making
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: the case for Joe Biden, don't mention proctology exams. That's
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: not helping your side either. It's just not. Last but
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: not least, last but not least, let's just deal with
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: this debate bullshit. It was just one bad night.
• 52:11
  Speaker 10: Obama Romney.
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: Obama Romney, there wasn't that much at stake. The guy
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: wanted a binders full of women. He wanted to put
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: his dog on the car. Democracy is at stake in
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: this election. And therefore, we need a guy who's not
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: going to say beat Medicaid and run out of steam.
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: We need a guy who's going to beat the fascist,
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: save American democracy. And that requires... big D Democrats to
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: put their big boy pants on and sort this shit
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: out and have a broker convention in August and have
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: some democracy. Everyone in this room knows that John doesn't
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: even need to speak.
• 52:44
  Speaker 8: We've already won.
• 52:47
  Speaker 6: Wow.
• 52:48
  Speaker 5: Big D Democrat energy over there. Look at that.
• 52:54
  Speaker 6: Powerful words. Dan, care to respond? Sure.
• 52:59
  Speaker 8: I can explain why we have to stick with Joe Biden.
• 53:02
  Speaker 8: We give you two words. Ron DeSantis. You may say, huh,
• 53:05
  Speaker 8: why am I saying that? Let me tell you.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: If Ron DeSantis had never run against Donald Trump, and
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump had just been, say, I don't know, convicted
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: of 34 felonies and sentenced to prison, and they were
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: looking for another candidate to replace him, they would have
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: picked Ron DeSantis.
• 53:18
  Speaker 8: Looks great on paper.
• 53:20
  Speaker 5: Governor.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Seems like he had presidential timber. He would have gotten
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: in that race and shat the bed in five minutes.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: We do not know who our Ron DeSantis is. Any
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: single person we pick could end up being bad and
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: worse than Joe Biden. I, in my long career, because
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: I'm older than you guys, have met with dozens of
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: people who thought they would be president. Governors, senators, members
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: of Congress, business people. They all seemed impressive on paper.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: They seemed impressive in the meeting. Most of them never
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: got off the launching pad because there is nothing harder
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: in American life than running for president. It is the
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: going from even the governor of a state like California
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: to running for president is like T-ball to game seven
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: of the World Series. We at least know, for all
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: of his flaws, that Joe Biden can win a presidential election.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: We know that there are tens of millions of people
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: who have voted for him or willing to vote for
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: him again. He is behind in this race, but he's
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: not behind by much. What happens if we pick the
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: wrong person? Because there was no going back then.
• 54:16
  Speaker 6: Can I follow up on that as the moderator and
• 54:18
  Speaker 6: my discussion?
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: My boy's wicked smart.
• 54:21
  Speaker 6: I will go to John in a second. Wow, moderator
• 54:24
  Speaker 6: who moderates. Isn't that... I appreciate the fear of the unknown,
• 54:29
  Speaker 6: but that's an argument against... any new person from running
• 54:33
  Speaker 6: for president. That's an argument for gerontocracy.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: Well, no, because you have a primary. You have a
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: year-and-a-half-long primary. Like, it was very possible that when we all,
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: when those of us who went to go work for
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Obama on the very first day, that he never made
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: it out of the first two months.
• 54:46
  Speaker 8: But he had what it took. He got knocked down.
• 54:48
  Speaker 8: He got up.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: He had to sit before Edwards. He had to go
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: to 13 debates. He had to do all of these things.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: There is a process to get the wheat from the chaff.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: We are going to skip that process here. We're going
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: to allow, I don't know if you've ever been to
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: a convention. You ever met the delegates? We're going to
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: ask a group of people who collect pins for a
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: living to pick our president.
• 55:11
  Speaker 5: John?
• 55:12
  Speaker 9: Have you ever met the delegates just won this whole thing?
• 55:15
  Speaker 6: John, tough hit. Tough hit on the delegates, I assume
• 55:18
  Speaker 6: many of whom are fucking listening. It's a tough hit
• 55:22
  Speaker 6: on hyper-engaged partisan activist Democrats doing the daily grinding work
• 55:28
  Speaker 6: of keeping our party alive. Over to you, John.
• 55:37
  Speaker 7: This is not about Joe Biden as a human being
• 55:41
  Speaker 7: because he's a wonderful human being. This is not about
• 55:43
  Speaker 7: Joe Biden as a president. he has accomplished legislatively more
• 55:47
  Speaker 7: than almost any president of our lifetime. I think you
• 55:50
  Speaker 7: could even argue more than Barack Obama, okay? And I
• 55:53
  Speaker 7: think he has done a fantastic job. This is about
• 55:56
  Speaker 7: Joe Biden as a candidate. You know who our Ron
• 55:59
  Speaker 7: DeSantis is?
• 56:00
  Speaker 6: Joe Biden.
• 56:02
  Speaker 7: Because we saw it last night. Because in terms of performance,
• 56:07
  Speaker 7: that was not just the worst debate, that was the
• 56:10
  Speaker 7: worst public performance of anything we've ever seen. 70% of
• 56:14
  Speaker 7: voters have a problem with Joe Biden's age. It's concerning them.
• 56:19
  Speaker 7: And Joe Biden won 2020 by 40,000 votes across three states.
• 56:25
  Speaker 5: That was 2020.
• 56:25
  Speaker 7: That was before any other polls. In that election, he
• 56:29
  Speaker 7: was leading Donald Trump by 5, 6, 7, 8, 9,
• 56:32
  Speaker 7: 10 points. Going into this debate, which was the worst
• 56:35
  Speaker 7: disaster in modern debates, in any debate, Joe Biden was
• 56:39
  Speaker 7: behind Donald Trump in the debate. The debate was the
• 56:44
  Speaker 7: one moment that more people were watching this race than
• 56:49
  Speaker 7: any other moment that will happen in the campaign. And
• 56:51
  Speaker 7: we hope that there's a debate in September, but if
• 56:53
  Speaker 7: you're Donald Trump, why would you agree to the debate
• 56:55
  Speaker 7: in September after you.
• 56:56
  Speaker 6: Just did that?
• 56:57
  Speaker 7: So now we have a convention in August where Joe
• 57:00
  Speaker 7: Biden will hopefully, presumably, give a great speech, and then
• 57:05
  Speaker 7: Donald Trump in July will give a great speech, and
• 57:07
  Speaker 7: there will be no more moments, and the race will
• 57:10
  Speaker 7: be frozen like this, The biggest challenge in this race
• 57:14
  Speaker 7: has been to capture people's attention in a very fractured
• 57:17
  Speaker 7: media environment. There are now no more opportunities because the
• 57:20
  Speaker 7: one opportunity when 50 million Americans tuned in, Joe Biden
• 57:24
  Speaker 7: did not show up. The Democratic Party does not have
• 57:27
  Speaker 7: a problem with the party. We won the 2022 midterms.
• 57:31
  Speaker 7: Josh Shapiro won in Pennsylvania by double digits. Gretchen Whitmer
• 57:35
  Speaker 7: won in Michigan by double digits. Raphael Warnock, the first
• 57:40
  Speaker 7: black senator.
• 57:41
  Speaker 5: From Georgia, won in an extremely difficult state multiple times.
• 57:46
  Speaker 6: He won.
• 57:47
  Speaker 7: We have, since Donald Trump has won the presidency in 16, Democrats, younger,
• 57:54
  Speaker 7: energetic Democrats, diverse from the left to the center left, women, men, black, white,
• 58:00
  Speaker 7: have won all over this country. The party does not
• 58:03
  Speaker 7: have a problem with Democrats. It has a problem with
• 58:05
  Speaker 7: Joe Biden. That's what people are trying to tell us
• 58:07
  Speaker 7: right now.
• 58:08
  Speaker 6: And a.
• 58:10
  Speaker 7: Convention would be, look, a convention is risky. It is
• 58:15
  Speaker 7: definitely risky. We could end up with a candidate, like
• 58:17
  Speaker 7: Dan said, who then goes through the ringer over the
• 58:20
  Speaker 7: next couple months, and we'll all sit down and be like, oh,
• 58:22
  Speaker 7: this was worse. This was worse than Joe Biden. But
• 58:25
  Speaker 7: this is democracy, right? All the candidates that are going
• 58:28
  Speaker 7: to run will get to make speeches. There will be polls. Yes,
• 58:31
  Speaker 7: the delegates will pick. Would it be better if voters picked?
• 58:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah, of course.
• 58:35
  Speaker 7: But that's not where we are right now. We're in
• 58:37
  Speaker 7: a situation where in just a couple months... Joe Biden
• 58:40
  Speaker 7: could lose to someone who wants to end democracy, which
• 58:43
  Speaker 7: we know because he tried to overturn democracy four years ago.
• 58:46
  Speaker 6: That's where we are right now. So why not give people... Sir,
• 58:49
  Speaker 6: can I respond?
• 58:50
  Speaker 5: Can you mute his mic, please?
• 58:51
  Speaker 6: I'm going to need to let them respond. I'm going
• 58:53
  Speaker 6: to have to let them respond.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: Speaking of overturning democracy, we have a process to pick
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: our nominee. We went through that process. Anyone could have run.
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: Dean Phillips ran. Marianne Williamson ran. We all could have
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: voted for them.
• 59:08
  Speaker 6: We didn't.
• 59:08
  Speaker 8: We voted for Joe Biden. And now, like, I don't know,
• 59:11
  Speaker 8: I'm trying to think of another person.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: Who, after an election is over, doesn't like the results,
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: and then considers storming a meeting in which people are
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: certifying the results of that election.
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: Wow. Wow.
• 59:25
  Speaker 6: I have to say, that's a low blow, Dan. And
• 59:30
  Speaker 6: I want to keep this civil.
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: First he's like, they're all collectors of pins. Then he's like,
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: don't hurt them.
• 59:37
  Speaker 6: I want to ask about a specific problem and why
• 59:41
  Speaker 6: we shouldn't worry about it, which is, if we were
• 59:44
  Speaker 6: to go to some kind of an open convention, what
• 59:47
  Speaker 6: is the cost of a period of time in which
• 59:49
  Speaker 6: Donald Trump has the stage to himself and Democrats are
• 59:52
  Speaker 6: arguing with each other rather than fighting Donald Trump directly?
• 59:55
  Speaker 6: That's a great question, John. Thanks. Thanks.
• 59:58
  Speaker 7: Staged to himself a contested Democratic convention, which has not
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 7: happened since 1968. I was just talking about the biggest
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 7: challenge in this election is attention. We'll get more attention,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 7: more media attention, than anything that has happened in politics
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 7: in a decade. And Donald Trump will be yapping away,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 7: posting on Truth Social, and the attention of the rest
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 7: of the country will be on the diverse array of
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 7: Democratic candidates that are at that convention talking about the
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 7: values of our party, where they're going to take this country,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 7: what they've done in their states. That's what the attention
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 7: is going to be at a democratic convention that's messy.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 7: Will there be arguments? Yeah, there'll be plenty of arguments.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 7: There'll be arguments between the left and the center left,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 7: and we'll have to deal with all that.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 5: But you know what?
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 7: Unlike the primaries that we've been through that last like
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 7: a year, a year and a half, it will be condensed.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 7: It will be a couple of weeks of debate and argument,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 7: and then we will have a nominee.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: Also, Americans like new shit. They do. Sorry, I've been
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 4: an American for four years and that's what I've noticed.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 4: You go into the grocery, it's always something new. Why
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 4: do you think there's so many freaking sequels in Hollywood?
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: But I think people like new stuff. Let me just
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 4: be the skunk in the room here and bring up
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 4: a topic that I know no one really wants to
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: talk about, but it is crucial to this conversation, which
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 4: is if you don't have Joe Biden on the ticket,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 4: you don't just deal with the age issue, you deal
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 4: with the Gaza issue to an extent. And to an extent,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 4: I've been to Georgia I've been to Michigan recently. Every
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 4: single brown person I met, people who voted Democrat all
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: their lives, say we're not voting Democratic. We want to
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: punish Biden. Now, don't shoot the messenger. I'm just telling
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: you that is what people are saying. And if you
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 4: get rid of Biden, you do kind of deal with
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 4: that problem, which is a fresh start for the Democratic Party.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: The next guy comes in and gets to talk only
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 4: about ceasefire, not about eight months of providing weapons. And
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: I think that... will help hugely. Before the age thing
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: came along, I thought Biden might lose because of Michigan, Georgia,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: and all the young people and people of color I've
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: heard who say they won't vote for Biden.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 6: Tommy, we've heard a pretty beautiful idea of the democratic
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 6: process in action at an open convention. Do you have
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 6: any concerns about what that might look like?
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 6: With you, John.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 5: I'm just kind of sad, you know, listening to this.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: Um....
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 9: You guys have the loyalty of an alley cat. And
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 9: you guys are acting like a couple of giant Democrats.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 6: I do know what you're saying. Capital D Democrats. Listen.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 5: That was a rhetorical flourish.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 4: That's all I had.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 7: Is that what you were going to say? I thought
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 7: where you were going to go was it also deals
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 7: with the problem of incumbency. We talk about Joe Biden's
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 7: age as one of the reasons he's been very unpopular
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 7: the last four years, but I do think for all
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 7: that Joe Biden has accomplished, and for the fact that
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 7: in this country, inflation has gone down faster than almost
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 7: anywhere else in the world, incumbents across the world right
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 7: now are facing real political challenges.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 5: It doesn't matter if they're left, center left, center right.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 5: There is an anti-incumbent.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 7: Mood that has happened because it's a post-COVID, post-inflation thing
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 7: that has been hurting incumbents all over the world. And
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 7: if you have a new nominee from a state that
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 7: has not been around for the last four years making decisions,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 7: then that is a fresh start.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 6: Now, Dan, is it difficult hearing an argument like this
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 6: from someone like Mehdi when you find out that he
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 6: has the food taste of a four-year-old child and has
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 6: never tasted sushi and has literally never had a fucking
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 6: smoothie in his life? How can a person that incurious
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 6: about the world be someone we take seriously in a
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 6: debate as important as this? I, for one, do not
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 6: want to delve into personal attacks here.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: I don't want to end this on sort of our
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: version of the great golf handicap debate of 2024. I
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: would like to respond to John's idea about media coverage
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: because I think he has it backwards. I personally do
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: not subscribe to the Kim Kardashian theory that all press
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: is good press. And what I would say is, the
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: problem is not that the, like maybe we have a
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: great open convention and there are great candidates and it's
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: very friendly. But the problem of these seven weeks where
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump is running unopposed is that there is no
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: attention on Donald Trump.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 8: Every single moment of press is on us. It's who
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 8: is Gretchen Whitmore talking to. It's how we prepare.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 5: What do you think the Democrats are going to be
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 5: talking about? Not beating Donald Trump?
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 8: No, we're going to be fighting with each other.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 6: Hold on, what was last?
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 5: Let one person speak at a time.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: No, no, no.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: I will finish my point real quickly and hand it
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: over generously to Mehdi.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: Mute my mic if you dare. Dan, that's, I mean, sorry,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: that's BS. 90 minutes last night was a chance to
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: go after Trump, and they blew the 90 minutes last night,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 4: and you keep saying, well, the people voted, the people voted.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: I dare you to ask all those people to vote
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: again this morning after what they watched last night. It's
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 4: just not the same thing. We're in a very different place.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: People saw the car crash in front of their eyes.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: I understand that. I respect that. I respect your food
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: choices as well.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 5: I think they're yours.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 4: On food choices.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 6: They're your choices.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: I am not going to be lectured on food choices
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: by the side that is promoting the ice cream guy
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 4: for another four years.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 6: Me and Joe Biden, we have.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: That much in common.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 6: We love ice cream. I know you want to mulligan,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 6: but Joe Biden just hits big.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 5: Sweet, long drives. And that's what we're going to keep
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 5: doing here.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 6: And I think that that's a beautiful place to leave
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 6: this very actually genuinely interesting and passionate debate. I think
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 6: that actually did a great job of representing the fact
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 6: that anyone who says this is easy or that we
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 6: shouldn't have this debate is not being honest. And that's it.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 7: I want you all to know, we've had this debate
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 7: many times. I could have argued... We all could have
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 7: argued the other side, too.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely. Because it really is.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 7: That is how tough the choice is, and that is
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 7: how good the arguments are on both sides. It is
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 7: a very difficult situation, which is why we've talked about
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 7: having this in public, because I think people who deeply
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 7: believe that we should stick with Joe Biden, I get it.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 7: I totally respect it. People who think, no, he should
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 7: step down, I totally get that, too. We're in a
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 7: fucking tough space.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 6: Find people on both sides. That's the key thing here.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 5: No labels. When we come back, a game.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 6: When disaster strikes, we think of all who are directly impacted,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 6: whether it's a natural disaster like a snowstorm or a
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 6: man-made disaster like what Kanye did to that mansion in Malibu.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 6: All right, not an architecture TikTok. Well, we think of
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 6: almost everyone who is impacted. But when there is a
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 6: massive blunder or mistake or human error, when a decision
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 6: is made that cannot be unmade, we often overlook one
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 6: particular impacted individual. The poor spokesperson sent out to the
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 6: microphones to defend the company whose oil tanker is currently
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 6: coating an endangered seal with crude, or the aircraft manufacturer
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 6: struggling to keep doors attached to the planes, or the
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 6: campaign whose candidate was chased into a bathroom stall by
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 6: the National Enquirer while he was visiting his secret baby.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: Hey!
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 5: I didn't work there anymore.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 6: I made reference to Baghdad Bomb to a producer who
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 6: I realized was too young to understand the reference. That
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 6: was my personal disaster. So here's how it works. I
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 6: am going to assign a disaster to each of our
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 6: boys out here, and they will have to spin that disaster.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 6: Are you ready?
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 5: I hope so.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 6: First up, Dan, you are the spokesperson for the big dig.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 6: And you are speaking to someone who sat in traffic
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 6: from 1987 to 2006. Okay. Are we ready?
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 5: We're ready.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: Go.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 8: Look, I get it.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: No one likes traffic. You have places to be. You
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: have things to do. I understand that it can be frustrating.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: It can be annoying. I feel your pain, but I
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: think you're thinking about it wrong. It's not just that
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: you're waiting in traffic. Like the greatest generation, you.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 8: Are sacrificing for future generations.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: There will be a day, maybe a decade from now,
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: maybe several decades from now when your grandchildren, your great
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: grandchildren are getting from Charlestown to Dorchester on time. They're
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: getting to Logan Airport without any traffic. And they will,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: like the Greatest Generation, they will think back to what
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: you did to help them. That your time in traffic
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: is sacrifice for their punctuality.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 5: Dan, think about the Zakem Bridge.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 8: You are very slowly storming your own Omaha Beach.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 6: Dan, I got to press, as a journalist in this case. Hey,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 6: when a project takes an extra decade and $ 8 billion,
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 6: don't you think there should be someone in charge of
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 6: gluing the ceiling to the fucking roof?
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 8: Time's a construct.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 6: All right. Well done, Dan. Well done. Next up. Let's
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 6: go to Tommy. Tommy. You are the spokesperson for Mitt
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 6: Romney after he put the family dog on the roof
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 6: of his car. And you are trying to defend yourself
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 6: to Sarah McLachlan.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 9: Hey, Sarah, thanks for taking my call. I know we'd
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 9: reached out about licensing your music for the Mitt Romney
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 9: Senate Family Library, and this is why I think it
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 9: will work for you. The fake news media has written
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 9: a lot about strapping Seamus to.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 5: The roof of a car.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 9: What they don't talk about in these stories is that
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 9: dogs famously love putting their faces out of cars when
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 9: you drive them places. So why not Go the extra yard.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 9: Why not level up the experience for your dog?
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 6: Wow. Powerful words. I actually think that that's a really
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 6: good point. I can't believe how much hay we made
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 6: out of that. Dogs love being outside in their cars.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 6: It's like a dream come true. It's al fresco. People
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 6: didn't like it. It was fucking weird.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 5: It is weird.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 6: Hey, wait a second. That's weird.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 4: Well, it was.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 9: Now, in fairness, it was a drive from Boston to Canada.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 9: I do think the dog shit down the window. Not
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 9: really making a good case for yourself now. But if
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 9: you give your music to us, it will remain in
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 9: the arms of a Romney.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 6: Oh, wow. Well done, Tommy. Thank you. Thanks. Next up, Mehdi. Chernobyl. Chernobyl.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 6: Is unfolding. And boy, do you have bad luck. Because
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 6: at the very moment they're trying to figure out how
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 6: to place a kind of cement sarcophagus over the steaming
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 6: disaster site, it's your job to convince the people of
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 6: Wooster that it's... Wooster? Wooster. How do you say it? Wooster.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: Wooster. Wooster.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 6: Wooster. Worcester.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 5: Oh, please.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 6: It's a city. It's where I went to college. That's
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 6: not on me. You pick half the fucking letters to
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 6: pronounce you illiterate fucks. Please. Worcester. You got your accent
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 6: from the British rejects of 300 fucking years ago. Matty,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 6: back to you. I have no patience. I have no
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 6: patience for Boston. Many. It's trying to open a nuclear
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 6: plant in Worcester. Thank you. Thank you. Convince these vulgar,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 6: rude cretins why nuclear energy is the right path forward.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 4: Like Dan, I believe that we need to sacrifice for
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 4: future generations. Climate change, existential threat to our way of life.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 4: We need to get on with it. We need to
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 4: stop climate change. Nuclear is the fastest way to stop
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 4: climate change. Don't worry about what happens in Russia. That's
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 4: Russia's problem. You don't care about what's Russia's problem. You
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: care about what's Worcester's problem. Worcester wants to save its children.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 4: I don't know how the fuck to say it. Worcester, Worcester,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 4: Worcester wants its, Worcester! Worcester wants nuclear!
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you got it.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 5: Worcester wants nuclear.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 4: And to quote the next president.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 6: That's never been said.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 4: To quote the next president of the United States, nuclear
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 4: is very strong.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, no.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 6: Oh, no. Well, powerful words. Well done, man.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 7: Much like we don't care what happens in Russia, Boston
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 7: doesn't care what happens in Worcester, because it is past 495.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 6: Oh, yeah. You say that now, but then a bunch
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 6: of radioactive suburbanites are wandering down the fucking boulevard. All right. John,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 6: you are Buckner's agent after the Mets beat the Red
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 6: Sox in the World Series. Oh, boy. Okay, look.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 7: Everyone has a bad night. Everyone has a bad performance.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 7: Had he been injured all season?
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 7: Had he been struggling with that injury? Did he walk
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 7: like he used to walk? No, he didn't walk. He
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 7: hasn't walked like he used to walk anymore. Did he
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 7: run like he used to? No, couldn't run like he
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 7: used to run anymore.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 6: But you know what?
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 5: Did he cost the Red Sox game six and then
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 5: the World Series?
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 5: As a As a five-year-old, was it the first time
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 5: I saw my dad punch a wall?
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 6: But you know what?
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 7: No one ever talks about the run he scored in
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 7: game seven.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 7: No one ever talks about the pitching. Maybe it was
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 7: the pitching. Maybe they shouldn't have put Buckner in when
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 7: he was injured. No one ever talks about that.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 6: That's true. It's not... We shouldn't be.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 7: Focusing on Buckner's one night of bad performance. We should
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 7: be focusing on our common enemy, Mookie Wilson.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 6: But John, but John, wait a second, John, but wait
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 6: a second. That's all well and good if there are
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 6: other factors, but if one bad night is the difference
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 6: between winning the World Series and losing the World Series...
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 6: You're deep. Is it worth thinking about whether or not
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 6: it was right to put someone like Buckner in that position,
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 6: especially after we saw what had happened?
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 5: You know, it's a good point, but here we are.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 5: So what else are we going to do?
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 6: Powerful words. Bill Buckner.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 5: And that's our game. And that's our show for tonight.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 5: Thanks to Mehdi for being with us. Thanks to Governor Healy.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 5: And thank you to Harvard Bookstore for selling Democracy or Else.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 6: Go get a copy. And thank you, Boston.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 4: Hang in there.
• 1:16:42
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• 1:16:45
  Speaker 7: consider joining our Friends of the Pod subscription community at crooked.com
• 1:16:48
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• 1:16:51
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• 1:16:54
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• 1:16:58
  Speaker 7: if you're as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 7: a review. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 7: Our show is produced by Olivia Martinez and David Toledo.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 7: Our associate producers are Saul Rubin and Farah Safari. Reed
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 7: Cherlin is our executive producer. The show is mixed and
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 7: edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 7: with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Writing
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 7: support by Hallie Kiefer. Madeline Herringer is our head of
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 7: news and programming. Matt DeGroat is our head of production.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 7: Andy Taft is our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team,
• 1:17:30
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  Speaker 7: and Molly Lobel.