Latest / Gospel Talks Podcast / #93 - If God is sovereign, should we bother evangelizing?

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#93 - If God is sovereign, should we bother evangelizing? · Gospel Talks Podcast

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  We are finally here.
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  This is part four of four in this series on nobody seeks after God, so why does anybody come?
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  And in this fourth part, we are going to talk about where the rubber meets the road, theology, and practical implications for evangelism and even assurance of salvation, or
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  what we call eternal security.
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  What are the implications?
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  What
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  are the effects of the theology we have taught for the last three episodes, what we've heard from Jeff, and where we live in everyday life.
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  Should we evangelize?
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  When people get saved, what's the assurance that that salvation holds?
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  If you've been wondering where this is all going, if been wondering what are the practical implications in everyday life, this episode is for you.
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  Welcome everybody to Gospel Talks Podcast, where we help Christians
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  all over the world become more effective in relational evangelism and discipleship.
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  My name is George Binocca.
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  With me today is Jeff Musgrave.
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  He's the author founder of the Exchange.
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  So thankful to have it on have him on.
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  Hey Jeff, how you doing?
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  Doing good.
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  Good to see you, George.
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  Good to see you too.
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  Well, here we are, segment four of four, last part in the series.
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  What does everything you've talked about, we've talked about mean for evangelism and insurance?
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  This one actually, in my mind, is a little easier than some of the others, just because now we have to talk about this is what we do and and how we respond to what what we know.
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  And I I like that sort of concept.
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  Those are those are easier for me to think about.
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  Yeah, I agree with you.
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  So if salvation begins with God drawing people, like we've said, how in your view, biblically, do we approach evangelism?
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  How does that shape our approach to evangelism?
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  I have I I had like to think of evangelism as a great treasure hunt.
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  God is calling people to himself.
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  He's already at work.
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  I don't have to pray him down.
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  I don't have to talk people into it.
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  my job is to go find the people that God is working in.
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  And we've talked about this passage before in Acts eight.
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  Paul says or God says to Paul one night in a vision.
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  Do not be afraid, but go on speaking and do not be silent.
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  And I think that speaks to each of us.
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  I mean, the question is, should we even witness?
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  And then he says, for I am with you and I have many people in this city.
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  And I just think th God is letting us know I have people out there that I am drawing to myself, and I want you to go find them.
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  By speaking and not being silent and recognizing God is with me, He will direct me, He will help me.
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  He I think He even points us to the right people sometimes.
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  So this brings great joy in trying to figure out what what I'm supposed to do.
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  Our job is to find the people God is talking to, share the gospel with them, and God, the Holy Spirit, the Lord of the harvest.
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  Is the one who does all of the rest.
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  I think it's important for us to be able to have confidence in it's not about better arguments, it's not about power for persuasion.
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  Paul even said uh to the Corinthian church when he wrote to them after having seen some of them saved.
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  So, in other words, God told him, Here's how I want you to find people in Corinth.
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  When they got saved, and he
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  Years later, when he's writing back to them, he says, When I came to you, brothers, I didn't come proclaiming a testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom that you know,
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  these strong arguments.
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  He said, For I decided not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
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  he focused on giving the gospel and God was the one who called people to
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  embrace the gospel.
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  I I think sometimes when we get that mindset, it's like, well, what what's the big deal with relationships then?
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  I mean just tell them and they either get saved or they don't.
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  And I I think that we have to remember that many people need more than one touch with the gospel.
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  And so uh that that uh
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  Axiom that we're constantly talking about more time and more truth versus brief encounters with a brief gospel is is really extremely important for us to remember.
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  So with that in mind, if it's okay, I have a few words that kind of help me in this treasure hunt mindset.
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  And the first word is relationship.
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  It it
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  When I am in affectionate relationship with someone, it it makes them desire to hear.
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  it gives me the ability to have more than one touch with the gospel.
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  And more importantly, I mean the most important is because Christ is in me, in that relationship, I in in all the things that we do together with with my unbelieving friend,
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  I'm bringing Jesus up close and personal.
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  Jesus
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  is impacting him through the way I act, through the way I view life, all all the various pieces of of life.
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  So number one, relationship.
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  number two, patience.
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  God gives the increase.
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  The the word in the esv is Paul planted, apostle watered, this is this or Apollos, excuse me, water, this is first Corinthians three.
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  But God gave the growth.
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  And the idea is that when God is working in a human soul, it it's not like he s turns on a switch and from this point on, if we hear the gospel, I'm ready to believe.
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  It's it's it gives the picture of this drawing as the growth of a soul.
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  So we have to be patient and let that let that work of the Holy Spirit go on.
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  And and I believe that.
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  Part of the believers demonstration of patience is through our persistence.
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  And that's another word.
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  Mark 4 gives a picture where it says that this person that I call a soul farmer has planted seeds, and he says he sleeps and he rises at day and night.
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  And then he goes on, he says, and the seed sprouts and grows, and he doesn't know how.
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  But once the grain is ripe, at once he puts in the sickle.
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  And there's just a couple of words that jump to me from that passage, night and day at once.
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  And there's this recognition that even though God is the one who's causing the growth in this soul to take place, I still have a job of being persistent in tending to that soul.
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  So how do you tend to a soul?
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  based on this particular passage, the heart is the soil, the word of God is the seed, the spirit is the life giver, and the soul winner is the believer planting the seed in the
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  word of God and anticipating the spirit to do the life giving work that goes on with that.
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  So I think we have to be persistent.
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  We have to be loving.
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  I mean, several places Paul gives pictures of uh being a nursing mother, being a tender hearted father.
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  And uh Jesus said to his disciples, By this shall all men know that you're my disciples if you have loved one for another.
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  Uh and so as we're relationally connecting with people, believing that God is working in their hearts, loving them and showing them love.
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  And then the the last one that I think is really important is boldness.
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  And again, we've used this word many times.
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  Paul asks, I mean, this is the apostle Paul, who in my mind is probably the boldest person I know.
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  that he asks for prayer.
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  He says that words would be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel.
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  That I may declare it boldly as I ought to speak.
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  And that word bold carries with it the idea of clarity, that I could say it clearly.
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  And so these are the parts that even though the Holy Spirit is doing the calling, the Holy Spirit is doing the wooing, the Holy Spirit is doing the growing, we still participate and
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  we still have a part of it.
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  I think it's important to remember this is not about a plan of salvation, it's about a personal salvation.
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  We are introducing them.
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  to God that it's God that does the work and it's God that wants a personal relationship with them.
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  We're just a facilitator.
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  I like to think of it as being the the midwife in the birthroom.
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  Hmm.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  I I think that's great.
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  I think that's those that list of things, um, it's God, boldness, love, it's I'm trying to remember persistence, patience, relationship.
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  I mean, that would make for a great article on our website, just saying.
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  But I think that's phenomenal truth to keep in front of you that encourages you day to day.
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  Now, when we think about this truth.
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  of God's sovereignty and I understand what you just said.
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  It it that we ought to keep going and keep planting and be like that farmer who's a soul farmer at some level because we don't know who's who and what's what and when it's gonna
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  happen.
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  some people might be be really discouraged by not having that information.
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  Why should this truth increase our confidence in sharing the gospel rather than discourage or deincentivize it?
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  Yeah.
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  There's a verse in uh first Corinthians chapter one.
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  I I think it's verse seventeen, eighteen, somewhere in there.
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  it says, For the message of the cross is folly to those who are perishing.
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  That's a present tense.
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  The idea is not that they are constant right now in eternal judgment, but that right now they are resisting and listening the
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  The cross is folly to them and therefore they're perishing.
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  But it goes on to say the cross, the message of the cross is to those who are being saved.
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  Now, these are not people who are already saved.
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  These are people that God is wooing and drawing to Himself and giving them His suck his saving grace.
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  He says the the message of the cross is the power of God.
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  So the the question mark is how do we find
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  the people that God is calling.
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  Uh you know, if if God is sovereign, God is calling people to himself, how do we find those people?
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  And the answer is give them the gospel.
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  The gospel is what they're going to respond to.
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  The gospel is what's going to woo their heart over.
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  And so that's the part that we play and that's the confidence that we can have.
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  Hm.
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  So as much as I take comfort in God's calling people and that none is seeking and God calls them, He's the one that goes and rescues and you know, all that things, things we've
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  covered up to this point.
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  One of the things that sometimes that can have an effect on me personally is do I need to pray?
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  How should that truth change the way I pray for lost family members and friends?
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  Because prayer can seem like, well, what's the point?
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  But then we're commanded to pray in the Bible.
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  Yeah, well the the answer to should I pray is answered by there's a commandment in the Bible.
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  And I think it's interesting that God does give commandments to our weaknesses.
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  And so yeah, I think there's a genuine weakness in our own life.
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  And I think part of it is our own confidence.
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  So how do I know the will of God?
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  Do I mean can I pray and and and ask God to save someone who's not in the will of God to be saved?
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  And I I
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  Again, these things are difficult.
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  I I don't know that I can answer them well unless I just go to the words of God.
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  And Second Peter chapter 3, verse 19, it's in the context of scoffers, and so it really is a great context for us to pray for those difficult people.
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  And the the Bible says the Lord is not wishing that.
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  Any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
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  And so I feel like I can pray with confidence.
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  I know the mind of God, I know the heart of God.
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  This is the heart of of the shepherd who goes and leaves the 99 and goes looking for the one.
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  And so I think I can pray with confidence and really with fervency, because I can believe God is not wishing that anyone would perish.
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  He wants everybody to reach repentance.
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  And so I can pray for people, uh, knowing that that's that's what God wants.
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  So when somebody, okay, keeping all this in mind, we're praying, we're being persistent, loving, making it about God, introducing them to a person, we're waiting on him to do his
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  work.
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  When somebody we come into contact with we start witnessing to just seems to be absolutely hardened to the gospel, how does this particular piece of theology give us hope in that
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  circumstance?
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  Yeah.
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  Well let me just ask this question first because I think this is of of an important concept.
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  George, have you ever experienced someone who was clearly hardened to the gospel uh actually being saved?
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  Yes.
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  A at w at the beginning they are hardened.
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  Yep.
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  And then at the end, and I mean it takes lots of time with an individual like that.
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  Lots of time, lots of truth.
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  But yes.
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  Yeah.
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  So the question mark is, you know, t what hope do we have?
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  And the answer is we still don't know.
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  I mean, God's work is uh is mysterious and I mean God even uses that word to describe what he does.
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  And we we cannot know God's ultimate plan for that person.
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  And so we can't give up on that person either.
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  Um I I I think the other part of this question that I wanted to make sure that we're hitting.
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  is you know they they seem hardened to the gospel and you've heard me say this before when I hear people say this is this world is gospel hardened I take a little I I I I don't like
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  that phrase and the reason is because the problem is not that people are too hard no one is too hard for the effect of working of the Holy Spirit.
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  the the the problem in our world is the people are ignorant.
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  They they have heard other things that they have believed are true and we have to help them see the truth of the word of God.
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  So I don't really like the word hospital guar or gospel hardened.
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  I do think that I you and I have definitely met people who know the truth and have kind of hardened their heart towards it.
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  but most of the people we're dealing with are not really gospel hardened.
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  They're just gospel ignorant.
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  Having having said that, even in
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  A hard heart.
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  Jeremiah God says to him, Is not my word like a fire that's going to catch fire in people's hearts?
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  Is not my hammer, my word like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?
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  And so when giving the word of God and praying for someone doesn't work, the answer is not to give up, the answer is to keep giving the word of God and keep praying because God
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  is the one who does that work and there's no one too hard for God.
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  So bearing that in mind, let's say somebody's really persistent and they pray and s a hardened person, even a hardened person comes to Christ, there could be a real temptation
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  for pride right there.
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  Um, what would be the theological connection where the rubber meets the road on how this truth guards believers against pride?
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  Every believer is a trophy of grace.
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  Some of them are a little more obvious to us.
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  And the answer i to the whole concept of the trophy of grace is it's all of grace, none of me.
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  It's not about me.
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  It's it's about him.
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  And um I mean that's a that's one of those living mantras that I live it with all the time because I I constantly say to myself, not the other not not the extreme, I did that.
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  I I tend to say the opposite side, which is also pride by the way, putting looking in myself.
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  I can't do that.
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  And the answer over and over and over is it's it's not about me, it's about God.
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  Hm.
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  To kind of switch gears here, one of the other things that that I've dealt with a lot, I know you've dealt with a lot, is somebody can question God drawing them, somebody can
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  question God calling them, somebody can question God saving them.
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  Does this truth give any assurance to somebody who's struggling with those doubts about their salvation?
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  Yeah, well the the that kind of falls into uh t two questions.
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  And the first question is the person who
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  has trusted Christ and is wondering, am I really, quote, one of the elect?
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  I mean, if am I if I mean am I genuinely a a true believer in Jesus Christ?
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  And um I I think that the same assurance verses we use with anyone else is an assurance verse we would use with them.
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  John chapter ten, verse twenty five twenty-seven My sheep hear my voice and I know them
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  And they follow me.
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  And then he goes on and says in verse 28, and no one can pluck them out of my hand.
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  Now then he goes on.
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  And he says, My Father is greater than I.
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  And it again, not in quality, but in hierarchy.
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  God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, all equally God, all equally omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent.
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  Uh having said that, there God the Son submitted himself and learned obedience to God the Father, and he says of his father who he submitted to, I no one can pluck them out of my
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  father's hand.
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  And it's here's the picture: I am in Christ, and Christ is in God, and I am doubly, triply, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
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  I I I am secure in Christ.
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  I mean, this is not something that is for me to hold on to.
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  this is him holding on to me.
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  And so that comes down to being able to answer these questions.
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  Jesus said truly, truly, and these are words that he uses to draw attention, this is important and it is
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  To the point you can stake your soul on it.
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  Uh, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes, the one who sent me has eternal life.
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  And so my our job is to hear and to respond in faith, and his job is to rescue.
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  And uh so
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  Uh, then he goes on and says, He you're not ever going to come into judgment.
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  The reason is because you pass from death into life.
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  So the security for the believer is not based on himself.
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  It's based on God's word.
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  It's not based on if I've been good enough.
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  It's based on what Jesus said.
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  And Jesus said, if you heard and you believed, if your life has been transformed by the Spirit, once that happens, you've passed from death to life.
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  You have
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  the new life of Jesus Christ, you have been born into the family of God, and there is security there.
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  So for the person who is a standing on this side of that transaction, I've trusted Christ, but I wonder, those are words that we can say to him.
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  the the other question, and I know that this is one that you would follow up on if there if someone is saying, well
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  I haven't ever made that decision, but how do I know he's actually calling me?
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  I mean, I how do I know I'm one of the elect?
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  And I it actually brings us full circle.
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  because we started with no one seeks after God.
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  R Romans chapter three, verse twenty three.
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  I mean that's that's where we started this whole conversation.
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  And I I always say, you know, if you're even asking me that question, then
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  Clearly there's something in your soul seeking after God.
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  And and that that isn't a work that started in your own heart, because no one seeks after God.
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  It's an indication that the drawing work of the Holy Spirit is already at work in you.
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  And yes, you need to trust Jesus.
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  That's this he he is calling you.
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  So answer.
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  So I don't know.
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  I mean, that may be a little simplistic, but I've always felt like if someone is concerned about
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  Whether or not God loves them, then they're concerned about it, which means that God is working in their heart to make them concerned about it.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  So I'll ask one last question, which is a question that I know we've kind of been answering behind the scenes.
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  Our primary concern about doing a series like this is that it sparks endless debate.
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  what our heart desire is, is to move ourselves and people toward truth, toward worship, dependence on God.
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  How does somebody walk away from these four episodes and move that way and not towards endless debate?
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  Got a verse written down here that I will mention in a minute, but as you were asking that question, the passage in Romans 8, where Paul says, If God did not spare his own son, how
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  he will he not with him give me all things?
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  And the I I just think that when we stop and think about where we have been and
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  And where God has moved us and recognize that none of this is about my own myself.
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  We love him because he first loved us.
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  And th the reality is, and by the way, that that's in first John chapter four.
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  The reality is that when I focus on the fact that he called me, that he wooed me, that he loved me,
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  The Fanny Crosby song jeep leaps into my brain.
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  this will be my song of endless ages.
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  Jesus led me all the way.
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  And I mean, from the beginning when I wanted him and I was curious about him, to the end where I am leap breathing my last breath because he gave me breath.
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  he does it all.
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  And if he's doing it all,
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  He deserves my all.
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  And that's really what worship is.
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  Worship is just simply letting go of any holds I have on myself and in my adoration from him, giving it all to him.
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  You know, sometimes we equate worship with music and singing and praying.
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  And and there is no doubt we worship through our songs and through our prayers.
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  When I let go of myself and give myself to him, that is the ultimate form of worship, of uh being that living sacrifice, depending only on him, because I have no other choice.
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  There I don't have any other support line but him.
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  Amen.
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  Amen.
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  That's an encouraging, encouraging truth.
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  It's an encouraging way to end.
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  And for those of you that are listening out there, thank you so much for listening.
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  Thank you so much for sticking with us.
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  Thank you so much for making this podcast possible.
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  And I want to say a big thank you to our donors that underwrite this ministry and are ones who give us of themselves and resources to make sure we can go out and train people in
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  this way.
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  Uh if you
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  Have never uh subscribed to this podcast, please hit that subscription button below.
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  We'd like to stick with you and build a relationship with you over time.
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  pray with us and pray to the Lord of the harvest that he would send forth laborers.
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  Like Jeff just said, in so many ways, we don't have a harvest shortage.
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  There's no shortage of lots of growth in the field and
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  Lots of work for us to do as soul farmers, but there is a shortage of people who are willing to go and do the work associated with this.
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  And so please pray with us that God would effect that number.
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  We love you guys and we will see you next week.