Latest / Motherhood Uncut / 20 Questions with Kate and Deb | Motherhood Uncut Podcast | Season 1 Episode 1

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20 Questions with Kate and Deb | Motherhood Uncut Podcast | Season 1 Episode 1 · Motherhood Uncut

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey Deb.
• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey Kate.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's season one, episode one.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Here we are.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: 20 questions about Kate and Deb.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a chance to learn about us and us learn about each other even more.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: That might be hard.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's weird.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: So we have 20 questions that we put in here.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna put one by one.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: See me first.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you first.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Question number one.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: When do you feel bored as a mother?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, this one's actually pretty easy for me because you know what I hated more than anything when my girls were little?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Playing on the floor.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Playing, playing anything, playing anything, playing dolls, playing house, playing dress up.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like my girls would be like telling me what to do and what to say.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to say, I would pinch myself to keep myself awake.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: And some moms love it.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Some moms love it.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Some moms just keep it.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I did not, I did not love it.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm with you.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: I did not love it.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Did you like it?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'd be like, let's play.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the mom and you're the kids and I'm cleaning.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: That is great.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, who do you most want to interview on this podcast and why?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, this is an easy one, and I'm like, I feel like I might be able to get more creative, but the first person that comes to mind is Michelle.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Shabba!
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, we're gonna get her on this podcast.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, let's manifest that.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but why?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: What do you like about her when it comes to motherhood?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, she is like as real as real can be.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, she just lets it all hang out.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think she has so much poise and confidence and authenticity, and there's just no expectation to be the perfect mother.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: She's like embracing the imperfect mother in every way.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: I actually heard an interview with her on a podcast not that long ago.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember who was interviewing her, but she was talking about how how she she said something like, Thank God, my daughters don't have to miss make mistakes around me anymore.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: They can leave home and go make mistakes at home, and she doesn't have to bear bear the burden of the pain of that.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Which made so much sense to me?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I can relate to that so much.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of like, I don't, I know too much.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Too much.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, Michelle Obama.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Michelle Obama, you're coming on the podcast.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: We want you.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: What would your kids say about you as a mother?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted that question.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, you can answer it too.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: But the first thing they'd say is I ask way too many questions.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like the fact that our daughters have us as mothers and more therapists.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: They're fucked.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're fucked.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: That must be a good thing.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Or there's or there's moments when they're lucky.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe they'll be lucky later.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Agree.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: But right now, I ask way too many questions.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Way too many.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: They would also tell me that I dance in the kitchen too much.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: But some mornings, I just all I can do is dance to sort of bring on the day, and they're literally annoyed with me big time.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, what's your answer to that question?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: They would say um that I'm too curious.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: They would say I'm too groovy.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: But you are groovy.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm proud of my groovy.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: They would say that um I talk about green food too much.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they would just say so many things, but I think most of all they'd probably say that I'm a good listener.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think that they would also be like, only when it's on our time.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like they want it to always be on their time.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Kinley actually said to me recently that I was she thought I was a good listener.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: I want to, oh, it was Mother's Day, and I told everyone that all I wanted for Mother's Day was to be by myself until dinner, and then I wanted them each to go around the table and tell me one thing that they each thought I was awesome about me, the mother.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And Kinley said she thought I was a good listener when that comes from a 15-year-old.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's huge.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good thing.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: All right, it's my turn.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, why should people be interested in hearing you talk about motherhood?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and you can answer this one too if you want.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's all you're I think that I think, well, I love talking about motherhood.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I think anytime any of us love doing something, it's um it's fun to listen to because it's real and natural and and it just there's a teachable moment around every corner.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually love that about you, Deb.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like when we talk about motherhood, you teach me something every time.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: I thank you, and I feel the same exact way every time.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god, love you.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: All right, your turn.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Is that your answer?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I also think we can make the things that are really hard about motherhood actually lighten up and feel funny, and we can make room for both of that.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're gonna have fun at these things.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, all right, Deb.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: What did you learn from your own mom about being a mom?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, what did you take with you and what did you what are you leaving behind?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this one is actually um pretty easy for me.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So my mom, two things.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: She never stopped moving.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: She was always doing something.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I learned from her to always do and never stop and be.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if I ever told you this, but right before my mom died when she was 71 five years ago, she told me that she felt like every day of her life she was running for class president.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that is exhausting.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: So the things I want to leave behind that I learned from my mom is sort of this constant need to be perfect.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I took some of that on.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of my anxiety as a kid had to do with her uncertainty about herself and her need to prove herself to the world.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I bear it the burden of that.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: That said, my mom was a stellar listener.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know what else she did?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: She showed me how to put a tampon in when I was younger.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like in her own like she literally took me into the bathroom and showed me how to use a tampon.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll never forget it.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's rare for our generation, totally.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I did that for my girls.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say, they were both very relieved and incredibly repulsed and embarrassed at the same time.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: And there it is.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: You can there it is polarities happening all the time.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I have no memory of my first handpon use.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: I've been trying to think about that.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: No memory.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, who taught me?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: And my mom was really open, so I don't know.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of hard to learn yourself.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of time.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of trial and error.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't even have a memory of like the instructions.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's so weird.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: I must have blocked it out.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Which is kind of sad.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: What has motherhood taught you most about yourself?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it has taught me, well, it changes with every developmental stage, right?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I think at the in the early years, it taught me that I have the ability to slow down because kind of like your mom, up to I had babies, I was busy.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: And like I did not know how to like sit and nurse and not do like something else at the same time.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that was like a huge pivotal moment for me that I had the ability to do one thing at a time.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't always get it right.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Let me just be clear about that.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: I definitely try and get way too much in often.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: I would say in general though, especially right now, raising um teens and tween girls.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: I what I'm learning every day is how much I don't know.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: And really that the only option is to stay in my curious mind because it's the only thing that gives me presence, and that presence is sort of where all the wisdom is.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like it sounds so cliche right now, but it's so accurate.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: And like I think that's when when I'm not living in my curious mind with my girls, I'm in reactive and I'm projecting, and I'm like wanting them to be a certain way and me to be a certain way, and it just doesn't flow.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm learning how to flow with that.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's such mirrors for us.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's such mirrors for us.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I'm gonna answer that question just because I was thinking about something as you were saying that, like I think what I realized most when I became a mother is how dependent I am or I was until I learned how to work with this on knowing what to expect and feeling in control of the situation.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then the moment you have kids, and then every year they get older, you realize that none of it is within your control.
• 9:02
  unknown: Yeah.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I really began to realize how dependent I was and how much I'd made my life surround surrounding myself in ways to feel in control and make things predictable.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: That when all of that went out the window, I lost it for a little while.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's still a process, 15 years later, of trying to manage those moments where I don't know what to expect and I have no control.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we were just talking about that this morning.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: We were.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: You want to say anything else about that?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I could we could have a whole podcast.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: We could have a podcast.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: It should be a podcast, Dev.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so I have to say something that that's how the podcast started, where we would be sitting around, having a glass of wine, and being like having these great conversations and saying, This should be a podcast.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: This would be a great podcast.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: Wouldn't this be a good podcast?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: So we could have a whole one on letting go of control.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: We will have a whole one on letting go of control.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: We will.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: All right, what is your back pocket stress management resource in mothering?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is like my favorite question because I feel like this is what I'm talking to other mothers about all the time.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I do this thing now, I've sort of trained my brain to do this, where numerous times throughout the day I will feel the bottom of my foot on the floor.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it keeps me in that moment.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, like if I think about Kinley moving through high school, right?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Or I think about, you know, it's like the worries ahead are the worries behind.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then I get so out of my head and so out of the moment that I kind of lose my capacity to think clearly when I'm mothering.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And just that technique of feeling the bottom of my foot on the floor keeps me in time and place.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really cool how we can change train our brains to do that.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that is by far my back pocket resource.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm curious to know what yours is.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's awesome.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: I have a new resource that I've been playing with since the summer that I really love.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it's, I think we've discussed this that part of just part of being a mother is worrying.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just what you're saying, worrying about the future, letting go of the past, whatever it might be.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, what I've been practicing a lot is I basically identify the worried mother within me, and I see her, and I actually ask her to step aside a little bit, just give me some space.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I like, I'm like, the worried mother is just a part of me, and I see you, and I'm actually gonna not go there right now.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it and just this like visual of her being separate from me allows me to really just kind of come back to my body, and it's been so helpful.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually realizing as we go through these questions that we could have a podcast episode for each one of these questions.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that one resource, simple, easy, like manageable resources for moments of stress and worry, we're gonna come back to that.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Good, good call.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: I won't forget.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, your turn.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, oh yeah.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, oh my least favorite question.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I couldn't think of this.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we're gonna think of one together.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, who in your view is a fictional mother, movies, TV, book, etc., that you least want to emulate?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a hard time recalling characters, so that's why this is.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, this is what I want, this is where I would go.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Leave it to Beaver.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: That was my first thought, actually.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: That really that was the one character that came in, but I was like, I can do better than that.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: But I love that you went there.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I mean, I went there because it feels like she has no life outside of being a mother and a wife, which to me is like everything recipe for disaster.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, boring.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: And like, how the heck do you survive if all you have is your children and your family in front of you?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: You don't.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: I would like, I would go crazy.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I don't love my children and my family, but my heart, my heart, nothing to do with love.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing to do with love, nothing to do with love.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's just about that we are multidimensional humans and we have so many parts of us that need to come to life.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: And if it's just focused on mothering, like that's your only thing, it's a setup.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's also like so much pressure for Beaver.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Is that his name?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: I actually can't even like visualize the show.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: All I know is that it's like something we refer to.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I I really can't even think of another mother in character, so we're gonna try that some of that.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: But can I actually answer the other, the opposite of this?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Who's a mother there?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it's in there somewhere, but who's a mother that you look up to?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I love Tammy from Friday Night Lights.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: Love Tammy.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, I love Friday Night Lights.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: I love and when I watch that show, I think that all those cute boys in the show would like me, especially Tim Riggan.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Tim Riggins and I might have a thing going on.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: I totally get it, even though I might be older.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Twice his age, maybe?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: I actually anyway, yeah.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're in high school in the show, but in real life.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: You're getting weird.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, um, but the thing I love about her is um she is so kind and compassionate, and she just holds the line.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: And she is clearly in charge, and she is clearly setting guidelines and being a responsible adult in the room.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: And like, I love that.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: She does it so gracefully, and I think it it's just beautiful to witness.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think it's so helpful, even if it's fiction, for us as mothers to have someone in mind like that.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, someone that not that we necessarily would emulate in everything we do, but somewhat just like a beacon.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because if we don't know what we're going for, yeah, it's so easy to lose our way, even if it's a Hollywood fictional character.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as you know, I'm a couples therapist as well.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: I have been for 15 years, and one of the things that we talk about a lot in the couples world is to have master couples that you look up to that are in your life.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, usually not fictional, but like people in your life that you look up to as a couple, and it's not about putting them on a pedestal, it's really just like you're saying, it's working towards something, it's getting inspired by someone or some or two people that are doing it well.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think that's so great.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's so great of evolution.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: All right, you're careful.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think someone's gonna say that about us someday?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'm gonna pretend the answer to that is yes.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: You're a therapist, you are married, and you have two daughters.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Who is your alter ego?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like this question has come up for us like 75,000 times.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I sort of feel like my alter ego changes every time.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Who's it today?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Today, my alter ego is a badass guitarist musician on a stage who like flings her hair around and gets a little sweaty.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I if I could do life again, I would learn how to dance and I would learn how to sing and I'd learn how to play the guitar.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I sort of pretend I can do those things in my kitchen a lot of the time.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: But if I could embody that, doesn't that just sound so fun?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and wild.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: I have to tell you, you do know how to dance.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: I dance with you, and you know how to dance.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: That was like Mia, with like no, but even dancing to live music somewhere, like you just move your body, and that's all dancing is.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: So give yourself that one.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: I will singing and guitar, yeah, yeah.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe like a solid gold dancer.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I had there's something about music and being on stage and like taking on that vibe.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I would do.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: What about you?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great question.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I mine changes a lot too, but it's she does she has more of a look.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's so clear.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, she has dark black hair, really good bang, sort of like a mullet, um, really good tattoos, and she's just sort of um like a poet.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like maybe she does like slam poetry, and um, she's just like maybe a little like emo-y.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's like the opposite of me.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I just I love that girl.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know who I'm actually thinking of.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember the movie um oh, pump up the volume?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: With Christian Slater, and there was this woman, and she would sneak into his window, and she'd be like, That's so sexy.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: I loved her.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a good one.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's my opter.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think they would be friends, those two officers.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: This is actually it's your turn.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, do you want to answer that one?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: What needs to happen in order to feel like a present mother?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, sort of like what we were talking about before.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: But I know that for me, I have to have quiet practice in the morning.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like it actually the days that I can't get my meditation in, I significantly am different as I'm preparing for this or whatever the next thing is.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's even if it's five minutes, I just have to sit on my cushion and just like come back to me and prepare for the day on some level.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and for me, it's that with the added layer of sort of trusting that the universe has our back.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like trust it, like rather back to my other thing, rather than trying to control everything and make it work a certain way, is sort of that general sense of like release of agenda.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: If I can do that, yeah, I can be in the moment because it doesn't matter what's happening in the moment.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: It really doesn't matter because whatever fun, yeah, and whatever happens, we are resilient and we're lending that to our kids.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Then they are resilient.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: That is, I have that has been a huge learning thing too for me.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's like remembering that my kids can handle the things that come their way.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: That they are equipped to handle the pain.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, watching our kids suffer, there's pretty much nothing worse.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's the hardest part of motherhood.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: I do too, actually.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: But I actually think to your point, the practice of trusting in ourselves, trusting in them, they got it.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: They got it.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: Even if getting it looks really messy and totally clumsy and totally hurtful and totally okay, and we got it too.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: We do.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say that my youngest, Bridger, the moment I check out, she knows.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, every single time.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: So sh so what needs to happen in order to feel like a present mother?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, shh she'll pull you right back.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: She'll pull me right back every time.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Mirror.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this is such a big one.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: What scares you right now about mothering?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think it feels very, we both have daughters, all daughters, teenage daughters, preteens.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um the uncertainty for me about what the world means for girls and women and reproductive rights and choice.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, it's both, it's the both and it's both needing to trust that somehow it's all gonna land in a way it needs to, and trust that our girls can be resilient to things.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the uncertainty around that really, really scares me.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I've talked to them about that, which I think is helpful, right?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, that sort of the the tenderness I feel as their mom partnering with them and guiding them through life when I don't know what life is going to be like for them.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: That makes me nervous and anxious, and that feels like a very valid feeling to be having about that.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think that's my answer.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: I like that answer.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's you're also talking kind of like big picture, like yeah, what's down the road of unknowns.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think climate change goes into that and our political world, and yeah, on a really like personal small scale right now, it's like driving.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh my whose cars are they allowed to get into?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: And like, yeah, how and like the practice of discernment every single day feels major right now.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: My 15 year old just got her permit.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was a crazy drive the other day.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know what else is that makes me think of God, there's so much, so much to be killed of.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was also thinking about the drugs and the street drugs and the fentanyl and trying to coach kids through how to say no and what that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: means and make space for exploring and oh my god that's gonna be a big that's a podcast that's definitely gonna be a very big conversation okay my turn are we okay um what mother do you look up to oh we already said that one okay great oh what's your unique gift as a mother I know we have so many Katie um I would say right now excuse me is um I have a lot of patience right now and it's coming like I work towards it with meditation practice and things but lately it's been coming a little easier and so it feels like a gift that's sort of been there um that I've kind of had on and off my whole life of just patience with people in general just like humans and giving people the benefit of the doubt and right now it seems like it's really accessible and I need it because they're really annoying at times.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah it's funny I think patience is one of those things that we grow and practice over time.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like I definitely have more patience now than I did when my girls were little.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes yes and we need it for different things now as well that's such a good one such a funny question for me because um I'm not sure if what I would answer would be the same as what my girls would answer.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know so it's part of that earlier question we had but I feel really I feel very able to manage my own anxiety and as you know I have a history of a lot of anxiety but I think my ability to take care of myself and manage my own anxiety and stay really steady in my center allows me to be neutral with them in ways that let them come to me with what they're feeling as opposed to being sort of guided or informed by how I feel.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: And right now they're both teenagers right now that feels especially important.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's hard work.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's been hard to tell you you have worked really hard and I see it all the time and I think it's guiding your whole career and I mean I've been friends with you for 14 years.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: And like it it's like you are a new person working with your anxiety.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's so beautiful I feel that yeah it's really I'm like you know your biggest cheerleader but like it's so awesome to witness so yeah I pay I think parenting has felt very different for me because of that because I can separate myself from them in a way that makes more space for them.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that feels like a gift.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh that's another thing I've learned from motherhood that they're not an extension of us.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right like that when I kind of really started to accept that they come into the world with their own agenda and their own karma and their past lives and all these things and it's like it gave me so much liberation to just let them like be who they are.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: That is a huge practice.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yep okay sorry I digress you know what um you know what you and how I say all the time that I've picked up what I say to my girls all the time you do you yes yeah you do you do I'll do me you do you I love that okay go for it what has been your most disgusting mothering moment oh this is the I I don't I can't wait to hear what you say for this but this one was hard for me.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay this one is very easy for me because it's it almost feels like it was yesterday but I was picking up Sage she was um in kindergarten I was picking her up at kindergarten and Tess was on my hip and Tess was three and sage was five and sage walks out and is like mommy I don't feel good and like throws up literally all over me and then Tess throws up like a minute later and I was sitting there just covered in throw up and I was I was like dressed for work.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: I had like heels and like a blouse and I was literally and all these moms just like walked away like no one like of course the drops make everyone like their worst elves come out and um yeah that sucked and then I took all my clothes off put them in a bag and the teacher had a raincoat and she just gave me her raincoat and I put it on I had just a raincoat on and I went to the cleaners and I was like here's my clothes I can't even that's a good one.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of I I my answer to that was I remember distinct this week distinctly where Bridger kept pooping in the tub and over and over and Kinley pooping in the tub you're gonna hate Rizzo don't tell wait I want us to pause for a moment and tell a story.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay I want us to tell the New Year's Eve story oh with the homeopathic medicine teething teething tablets.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: You want me to tell it?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: You tell it.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay so we're sitting at the kids are small I mean Tess is a newborn and they're all one age apart and I mean one year apart.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess Bridger and Tess were sleeping and it was probably like 10 o'clock and we were all like having drinks and eating a big meal and Sage and Kinley come out and they're like we ate all the vitamin C because the container is the same for vitamin C as it was for teething tablets which are actually have um uh a homeopathic in it that makes you relax basically and they ate the whole bottle the whole bottle New Year's Eve New Year's Eve and I called a homeopathy person and um she was so annoyed and I called her at home and I was like what do I do?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: She's like have them drink a lot of water and go to sleep really good and we were like watching them all night.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh but the point that is also there's a question in here which it may come to as like what what is your biggest mistake in mothering and there are two that one where we like left the girl we were so wanting a grown up New Year's even that we were like left our four children like in a room six and like away from us and I got into that and the other one was when I was on the phone Bridger was six and I was on the phone it was in the mountains during the summer and she was like walking on one of those walls and I was totally not paying attention and she fell off and broke her elbow and had to have surgery and it was one of those moments where it was on my watch and I wasn't paying attention and then Jamie came out and I was like it was not good it was so not good.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: But those those mistakes we make when we're like move our attention away for the moment and they're mistakes and they're mistakes and they're mistakes and we learn totally and thankfully everyone's everyone's okay what needs practice Deb are you asking I've actually been thinking about that a lot um so right now what needs practice in my home is backing off on sharing my wisdom of how to be a good friend, how to be a good human and letting them clumsily tap into their own wisdom.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: I have to work at that every single day and I need to practice it because I I can hear myself wanting to like teach them things I know as a 45 year old woman that a 14 year old girl can't possibly conceptualize yet and and I'm still doing it.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it needs a lot of attention totally what about you babe oh my gosh I mean there are so many but what I feel like I need to practice more than I am right now which actually feels very much internal I can get in a place where I imagine things happening that I don't want to have happen for the girls.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right like like um imagining my 15 year old teenage daughter in a social situation where she makes a decision where she's uncomfortable and she makes a decision that leads to some kind of dilemma or drama or problem.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like why am I picturing that instead of imagining her really being successful in that moment.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a way in which my brain can take me in a direction that leads to me sort of feeling more worried about things.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to practice imagining the best imagining that resilience and I like that it's very internal but anyway.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: But it's sort of like feeding the negative mind.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah exactly and then choosing to flip it or challenge it.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah but I think the mind naturally goes to negative we're wired we're wired for war and so it's like protection and preparing and worst case scenario and it does take effort to do it differently.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: That kind of goes back to like tips like one thing I do a lot is I visualize white light around my girls.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh that's a good one whenever they whenever I know it's like a hard moment or they're out you know unsupervised or whatever I just like see them with sparkle dust all around them.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it helps me yeah totally as someone said to me the once that worrying is praying for what you don't want to have happen.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember that all the time when I'm like ruminating my head and picturing and worrying it's like why am I putting that out right it serves no purpose no purpose.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: It really doesn't and yet we all do it but again it's like notice it exactly I think we should pick one more okay one more each sure okay okay is it a good one I've sort of already answered it.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh mine's lame too that's good okay that's good let's both answer that way okay what do you love most about mothering to end up because we talked about the hard the scary the unknowns and like what do we love so I have to say I I love spending time with my girls and I love watching them evolve and grow and learn about themselves.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: I love watching them just become who they are and I and in my mothering role I love being able to give them the space to become who they are.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: That was my answer.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry I totally agree and I think one of the things I love most this is a really fun stage.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know one of the things I love so much about your mother-daughter classes which I have taken is that you really push back on that myth that mothers and daughters will go through a really painful, rocky not talking arguing time around adolescence and and so much of what you talk about is that that is not how it has to be and that you know we can lead ourselves down that path or we can lead ourselves down a different path with more closeness and connection.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say that I um I I am really finding that those moments with the girls where I can let loose and I can have fun and I can bring humor in and I can make fun of myself and it's like the giggles and the laughter and the dancing in the kitchen and the there's like a whole new version of fun that happens right now.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they're both teenagers they're 13 and 15 and I think you know I think there is that piece of exploring our relationship together which feels pretty magnificent.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: I love that love it.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks for mothering with me.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for mothering with me and thanks for answering all these awesome questions with me.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I love learning about you love learning about you.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: Can't wait to bring more and we learn so much about ourselves in these moments.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: So true that's those are good questions actually for people to ask themselves you know actually maybe that can be part of the show notes and you as a listener can answer them for yourselves and see how it goes.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: And actually what we would love you guys to do is to get in touch with us and send us more questions.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you have questions about us and our mothering or questions that you want us to to discuss on this podcast we would love to hear from you the good the bad the ugly the messy we want to hear from you all right love you dad love you babe thank you bye bye