Latest / AI for Founders with Ryan Estes / He Built 10 AI Companies in 12 Months - With Teams of Five

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He Built 10 AI Companies in 12 Months - With Teams of Five · AI for Founders with Ryan Estes

0:00
Welcome back to AI for Founders. I'm Ryan Estes.
0:02
There's a problem simmering under the surface of the AI boom
0:06
that nobody wants to say out loud.
0:08
The tech is evolving faster than founders can keep up with, and
0:11
the tools we rely on keep regressing.
0:13
Back to kindergarten. One month Perplexity is
0:16
brilliant, the next it's recommending Arby's.
0:19
One day GPT is your super genius copilot, the next you're bottle
0:23
feeding. It's simple math and just when
0:25
you think you finally know which LLM to trust, Gemini 3 launches
0:28
and it resets this entire scoreboard.
0:31
Wait, I kind of like Arby's. Is that bad?
0:33
Today's guest has lived inside the chaos and built a business
0:36
on top of the turbulence. I'm talking to Brennan, the CEO
0:40
of Infinity Constellation, the world's first AI holding company
0:44
that's already deployed 10 plus companies, raised 17,000,000,
0:48
and pushed multiple ventures past the 1,000,000 ARR in their
0:52
first year, often with teams of fewer than five people.
0:55
In this episode, you'll learn why tech mode is collapsing and
0:59
what replaces it. The new math of good headcount
1:01
versus bad headcount. How to sell comes instead of
1:04
tools, why founder LED distribution is more powerful
1:07
than ever, and what a true AI first service business actually
1:12
looks like in the wild. This conversation is for
1:14
founders building right now, especially if you're wondering
1:17
how to keep your edge while AI moves faster than your ability
1:20
to form an opinion about it. Now let's get into it.
1:23
But first, if you like conversations that make your
1:25
near on Sprint, your worldview expand, and your business road
1:29
map catch on fire, then you'll want to subscribe to the
1:32
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3:08
All right, Brennan, welcome to the show.
3:12
Thank you for having me. So excited that you're here.
3:14
You know, I know we're going to have a great conversation.
3:17
Just to kind of timestamp this for folks, we just had the
3:20
release of Gemini 3. Have you had a chance to play
3:23
with it at all? I literally have it sitting in
3:26
my in my to do task to do tonight.
3:29
I'm so excited. Yeah, me too.
3:31
You know, that. I guess it's like resetting all
3:33
the benchmarks. You know, I spent a couple of
3:35
hours with it just kind of, you know, testing it on the Estes
3:38
benchmarks and it seems pretty slick, you know, it, it's it's
3:43
so interesting that like, you know, well, for one, I'm kind of
3:47
annoyed how many subscriptions I have to LLMS at this point.
3:50
But like you just got it feel around for the best one.
3:54
Like when you're thinking about advantages that certain LLMS
3:58
have, certainly Google is really positioned to win this kind of
4:04
race. If there is a LLM race right
4:06
now, maybe just to open up the conversation, what are what are
4:09
the LLMS you're using and for what right now?
4:13
So we use all. I literally use all of them.
4:17
Yeah. So like I actually love Grok
4:20
because of all the Twitter data and so socially I use Grok and
4:24
it has really updated information around news Gemini I
4:29
I use within my doc ecosystem for Google Docs and board
4:33
materials because because you can drag and drop Google Sheets
4:36
and they're really easy. I use clawed across both like
4:42
personal, like, I don't know. I really love the product
4:44
experience of Claude, so I use that as well.
4:47
And then the one that's dropped off in the last month for me has
4:49
been Perplexity. But I don't like push them out.
4:52
Yeah. Like, like, honestly, all the
4:53
other LO Ms. have gotten better search functionality.
4:56
Yeah. And they actually give me.
4:59
I've noticed that perplexity has gone more into marketing.
5:02
It's all asked like, where should I stay?
5:04
That's like a cool hotel. And it used to give me a really
5:06
cool response and now it's giving me like at Hilton or like
5:09
just something that you could just tell there's like SEO in
5:11
there. And then, yeah, I'm still like,
5:15
I'm still using GPT. But if Gemini's coming in and
5:18
knocking this out, their trading data set is, is just so good
5:22
across documents, e-mail and video that I, I think that
5:26
they're, you know, and they've got the distribution built in.
5:29
I think that they're, they're definitely a very a dangerous
5:34
incumbent in the space. I guess if you could call them
5:36
that. And then if you look
5:37
financially, they're the price to earnings multiple of Google
5:41
is is probably like much better and more stable than you know,
5:45
you could get for GP TS than open a eyes valuation.
5:48
So both of those juxtapose. I think that's kind of Sam.
5:51
There was an e-mail leaked from Sam Altman saying like, Hey,
5:54
we're in war mode. We got to get after these guys.
5:56
But I I think Sam's quite the entrepreneur.
5:59
So I don't think anyone's ever out in this race.
6:02
Yeah, you can't count them out. It's like I've been looking for,
6:05
I know there's some products that kind of aggregate and you
6:07
can just like kind of toggle through because it, it seems
6:11
like the LLMS to me is like you kind of when I get irritated or
6:15
frustrated with them, I'll put baby in the corner, you know,
6:18
and, and usually that's because it feels like if, if you're
6:22
training them on certain data sets or you're training them on
6:24
certain tasks, I kind of expect a linear evolution, you know, so
6:29
it's like you got to take them to kindergarten.
6:31
And if they're in kindergarten, OK, we're going to take a nap,
6:33
I'm going to give you a snack. And then you go on to primary
6:36
school. You're in middle school.
6:37
Once I get kind of like either as an agent or just an LLM kind
6:42
of program that's in high school, I'm like, OK, cool,
6:44
we're here. But when it, it reversed, and
6:46
that's kind of what I saw with perplexity 2 in the last couple
6:48
of weeks is it was reverting back to kindergarten.
6:51
It's like, man, that's so irritating.
6:54
I think they're trying to monetize like that's why,
6:57
because it used to be really good because they'll give you
6:59
these really unique takes and then the data wasn't updated in
7:02
Open AI to then to give you as good as takes.
7:05
Now I think between Grok, like all of them sort of have very
7:09
good access to web data. So yeah, well, I mean, Grok has
7:14
an unbelievable data set. Google obviously has an
7:17
unbelievable data set. Everybody else is kind of
7:20
scraping what they can in real time since everything has kind
7:23
of been digested, you know, So it's it's fascinating that like,
7:27
you know, the, the currency for these models is always going to
7:30
be new fresh content. And of course, you know, podcast
7:34
is a big part of that. They're all, you know,
7:36
transcribing podcasts all the time and everything that's
7:39
coming out. But the volume and the, the
7:42
history that like Grok and Google have obviously just like
7:45
such an advantage. I mean, just to the point where
7:48
it was like, you know, Elon was kind of the butt of a joke for a
7:51
while for how much he paid for for Twitter.
7:54
Then of course he came out with like 80% of the traffic, saw
7:56
bots by his own, you know, So it's like, Oh my gosh, he
7:59
overpaid. But then now it's like.
8:03
But Reddit, Reddit kind of messed up doing a deal with open
8:06
AI. So like most of open A is
8:08
training data was Reddit data, allegedly.
8:10
And Alexis Ohanian was talking the other week being like, man,
8:13
we shouldn't have done this deal because they could have, they
8:17
could have had their own research lab and studio and and
8:21
did it. Not only that, but wasn't it
8:23
like a? It was like almost nothing.
8:25
It was like I think 60 million or something like that.
8:29
Yeah. I mean, not that it's nothing,
8:31
but if you, I mean in comparison, it's yeah, it's
8:35
interesting. Here's the thing.
8:36
Here's the thing that I don't think that I didn't really rock,
8:40
no pun intended, about Elon Musk and XAI is that he has such a
8:45
competitive advantage with manufacturing and hardware and
8:48
compute and data centers are such a key component to speed as
8:53
well as accuracy on the AI models.
8:56
I don't know if you've used super Grok.
8:57
I use all the highest levels of all the models because I'm
8:59
always like testing them. Super Grok right now is so fast
9:03
for like what you get and and just like the there's like
9:05
almost no latency where as like OAI, you're like chewing it and
9:11
it and like, and I think that there's going to start to be a
9:13
competitive advantage and people who can build and launch these
9:17
data centers in a really fast order.
9:19
And I did you see that there was a XAI was suing a guy that left
9:25
XAI and apparently took their proprietary like methodology of
9:29
how to build these data centers and then went to open AI.
9:32
So like that's a whole other like angle behind this thing.
9:35
Hilarious. I mean, this seems like the
9:37
defense would be like, well, how many people did you poach from
9:39
open AI, including Elon, right? I mean, yeah, it's all it.
9:47
I think it's all circular though.
9:48
It's like poach and then you poach back and it goes back and
9:52
told us like the dot coms where they were all like the web
9:54
browsers were stealing people from each other.
9:57
Yeah, I know. But now you have like free
10:00
agency contracts. It's like you're, it's like the
10:02
NBA. And if you're a senior AI
10:05
developer. I, I went into the wrong I, I
10:09
did econometrics and I should have, I should have studied.
10:13
He went more into mathematics and did advanced AI and then
10:17
just rode that out until I could get my $100 million deal.
10:21
Exactly where they just keep you on the bench for 100 million
10:24
because they're like, God, we don't want to deploy this guy
10:26
yet. So you're just chilling in Fiji?
10:28
Well. What's crazy is most of these
10:30
guys, like, I think there's a real risk to our educational
10:34
system in the US because a lot of them are from different like
10:37
countries, right? And that, that have stronger
10:39
mathematics backgrounds. I I don't know how many are
10:43
products of the US high school math system, but I think, I
10:49
think not many. Totally agree.
10:51
You know, and also you, you think about the States and you
10:54
know, having two kids in high school during COVID, you know,
10:57
like just the, the, the really huge set back that was for, I
11:00
mean, it's like a four year kind of loss, you know, at least in
11:05
the states. I'm sure it was, it was probably
11:08
similar, but I don't, I don't think in quite the same way.
11:11
You know, it's interesting to see, you know, my daughter's a
11:13
freshman in college and my son's a junior in high school of like
11:16
how they use these tools. And the problem is, is I, I
11:19
wouldn't go as far as to say cheating.
11:21
I don't think they would either. But it, it's more like the
11:24
educational system isn't built for this right now.
11:27
There's obviously so much potential to be able to use
11:30
these two tools to further your education.
11:32
But it, it, it can be very simplified to like, here's the
11:35
right answers on, on the test, here's the right answers.
11:38
So there's not a lot of critical thinking behind it.
11:40
You know, I think it will catch up and education is going to
11:43
change radically like everything else.
11:45
But right now, these kids are kind of lost in the limbo, you
11:48
know? I also think that it's an
11:50
incentive structure design problem for from like decades
11:55
and decades ago. So there's this really cool
11:58
industrial art or like industrial product museum in
12:01
Berlin and the guys like from East Berlin.
12:05
And he compares medical tools and industrial equipment from
12:08
the Soviet Union compared to the United States.
12:11
And in the Soviet Union, allegedly, there is not even the
12:14
concept of an iron lung because only in the US could that have
12:18
been developed where like so much effort and energy and time
12:22
went into saving one life versus the technologies.
12:25
And the center was so much more about the whole collective.
12:28
And I think that's one thing, you know, popping back that this
12:32
story made me think a lot about our educational system where I
12:35
think our incentive system is so much focused on how many
12:38
students can we advance to the next level.
12:40
Not does Brennan understand super advanced calculus?
12:45
And if he doesn't, how can we like teach him that in the
12:48
correct way? Like even for me, I had
12:50
different learning disabilities that I didn't figure out about
12:52
until I was 30 plus. And if, if my educational system
12:57
would have identified that sooner, I might have been doing
13:00
like algebra and physics and been a lot better at a lot of
13:03
the stuff that it took me until I was in my, my late 20s in my
13:06
grad program to sort of early 20s in my grad program to, to
13:11
really step in to, to, you know, like black Shoals modeling and
13:14
different financial modeling that I think it's really fun.
13:17
And man, if I could have figured that out at 16, I think I would,
13:20
have, you know, been way more into mathematics.
13:22
Interesting. Do you think that with that kind
13:26
of system and that makes sense why, you know, China, India like
13:30
excel on the edges of the means in these kind of like high level
13:35
mathematics, largely because it's kind of how statistics
13:37
work, right? Like if you're plugging in with
13:39
like a microscope on certain kids and like really investing
13:42
in them, so you get the, the the extra on the outside, but then
13:46
it leaves a lot of people in the middle, you know, Whereas in in
13:49
America, it's like, to your point, it's like a lot of people
13:51
in the middle are getting a lot of like liberal arts education,
13:55
maybe appreciation for a lot of different things, more
13:57
generalist kind of information. But we lack the like the the
14:01
extremity at the end of the mean, except if you're talking
14:04
about like sports and things and creative processes, you know,
14:08
you, you think in like a system like that, you personally would
14:10
have they would have found you be like, hey, this guy is going
14:13
to be this. He's going to be, I think, math
14:16
champion. I think I would have been
14:18
screwed actually, like because I did.
14:21
I was very much a late bloomer because I, I'm dyslexic, but
14:25
didn't identify that. I've got chronic anxiety, didn't
14:28
identify that until later. And so I think of those systems
14:32
of anything they're like, not as understanding of those things.
14:34
And by the way, like I do think liberal arts, like philosophies
14:37
have like some of the highest index of billionaires, like
14:41
deals of philosophy degree, like a lot of founders I know who do
14:44
we have a philosophy company that's, that's an, a plug.
14:47
We, we basically digitized all the classics that's open source
14:51
and then put an AI agent that teaches you the classics over
14:54
it. And it's called the Library of
14:55
Alexandria and the AI is called Virgil.
14:58
And you could read like Marcus Aurelius and ask it questions
15:01
about like the context of, you know, his memoirs.
15:04
And, and it's really, it's a really neat thing.
15:06
So I think critical learning and focus and emphasis on learning
15:09
across any subject is really good.
15:11
I think where there's probably a couple things that are that our
15:15
system just is different. And the first is the incentive
15:18
design where it's like, how many kids can we get to graduate to
15:20
the next level? And that goes all the way
15:22
through college. Like look at even at Harvard,
15:24
their average median grade has gone up and up and up.
15:28
And so like, how is that competitive?
15:30
And then the other end is when I was in India, I was there with
15:34
the Rotary and the Gates Foundation getting polio
15:36
vaccinations. And we'd go into like classrooms
15:39
to talk to the kids and every single one of the kids are like,
15:41
I want to be a doctor, an engineer or it was basically
15:46
like doctor, engineer. And so I think in other
15:48
cultures, there's just a, a big emphasis on the parents on
15:52
certain professions where is like, you know, what do if you,
15:56
if I, if I went into a classroom in the UI states, they're
15:58
probably like, I want to be a singer or I would be an
16:00
entertainer or I want to be a social media.
16:02
And I think there are kids and people that want to be a
16:05
scientist or, you know, an astronaut or that type of
16:08
things. But I think culturally there's
16:10
not as much of that in the media or is not as much pushing in our
16:15
society for that. So I think it just creates
16:17
different outcomes because if you're going to learn that level
16:20
of mathematics to become an AI researcher, you have to really
16:23
get after it and then have a propensity to it.
16:25
And I think that that starts like pretty early.
16:28
Like, I don't think that's something that I could pick up,
16:30
even though I, I know pretty advanced statistics.
16:33
I don't really know if you put if you put one of those advanced
16:36
mathematics equations in front of me, you know I, I have a
16:39
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stories. Yeah.
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Yeah. Well, you know, Asian countries
18:47
are, you know, very famous for, you know, collective good before
18:51
individuality, you know, and if you, you just look at the
18:54
cultural milieu in America the last 10 years, it's been very,
18:59
very focused on individual attributes of each person as
19:04
being the defining characteristic, you know, so I
19:07
guess that's just to say that like America's behind a little
19:10
bit I. I mean, I think like we're a
19:14
distributed system. So I think we're always behind
19:17
until we're in front and we're the great experiment.
19:19
And so there's some things that we excel at, like we're so good
19:22
at being entrepreneurs. You look at like how many
19:26
billion dollar companies have been created in the United
19:28
States for the last 50 years? We dominate that.
19:31
I think there's a big reason why AI like really was started here
19:35
in a huge way and why a lot of people come from those countries
19:38
to build here. And I think immigration is
19:41
incredibly important, especially for, you know, just being the
19:45
great experiment the United States is.
19:47
And so, you know, I, I think that there's a lot of benefits
19:50
that we have, but I would say super advanced mathematics does
19:53
not appear to be, does not appear to be a strike in this
19:57
moment. And not right now, but this is a
19:59
good bridge to get to what you're doing in AI.
20:02
Yeah, you're doing very, very exciting things.
20:04
And I'll be it. It sounds like you had perhaps
20:07
some potential setbacks in school.
20:08
Boy, that hasn't stopped you at all.
20:10
So thank you. I want to ask about your company
20:14
because I know it's very novel and it's kind of a new path.
20:17
So it's described as the first AI holding company.
20:21
So talk a little bit about Infinity Constellation and what
20:24
you guys are doing over there. Yeah.
20:27
So Infinity essentially we created it because we looked at
20:30
the $6 trillion economy that is the service economy worldwide.
20:34
And so that's everything from like recruiting companies,
20:37
design companies like IDO, Accenture, Mackenzie, Deloitte,
20:41
etcetera. And they all are billion dollar
20:44
companies that aren't really building their own tech or
20:46
accruing tech value and they really haven't been disrupted in
20:50
the last 200 years. And so that is the market.
20:54
Then there's the other end of this, which is AI allows us for
20:57
the first time ever to really sell to a customer an outcome
21:00
rather than a tool. And I think even since the dot
21:03
coms, we all wanted to buy outcomes from technology, but we
21:06
sort of were forced to buy tools through SAS.
21:08
And now with AI you can it's actually sold better as an
21:11
outcome. And then the third pillar is it
21:13
doesn't take $100 million to launch a company anymore.
21:16
I've got 10 companies now under this holding company and many of
21:21
them have gotten like over half have gotten above 1,000,000 ARR
21:26
in, in the first year. And they've done that, many of
21:31
them with less than $1,000,000 of capital.
21:34
And so that just shows a crazy amount of capital efficiency in
21:36
the underlying business with AI. So if you believe those three
21:39
things like there's a huge market that can be disrupted,
21:42
customers want to buy outcomes and now we don't need hundreds
21:44
of millions of dollars to create those outcomes.
21:46
You created the you basically look at what's the best vehicle
21:49
to do that with. And I love Berkshire Hathaway,
21:53
they're super long owners. They went out and bought
21:55
companies like GEICO, they managed them well and they're
21:57
all about picking the right CE OS and the right thing.
21:59
So we're the same way, but we create the underlying companies
22:01
and we find the repeat founder that wants to run them and we
22:04
pair them with an applied AI person and we build it up from
22:06
the ground up, basically trying to create challenger models to
22:09
these old world businesses. So instead of like an idea, we
22:12
go, we build Radiance, which is our design agency, or we have 0
22:16
Hiring, which is our recruitment agency or Everest which offers
22:20
EA support. And the, the secret to what we
22:24
do is we take all the AI models that we build an orchestration
22:27
layer, but we also put human and loop so that we can sell a full
22:30
end outcome to all our customers.
22:32
And most of our customers. Like we have, we some that are a
22:35
bakery in Arizona. We have some that are, you know,
22:38
$500 million reinsurance companies.
22:40
We have shipping companies like it.
22:42
It really is. I call it the 80% of the GDP
22:45
that's not tech like we're really selling to traditional
22:48
businesses that want that want better services that they
22:51
haven't been able to have access before.
22:53
And so our end goal is to keep launching these businesses and
22:55
chipping away at these, you know, the the Roman Empire of,
23:01
of professional services. Of it, it's so incredible and
23:05
you know, the, the investing in founders and then attaching them
23:10
to AI developers that can start to like, OK, you know, let's
23:14
provide an outcome as a service. What, what is the kind of the,
23:19
the bridge you got across there? Is this is this something that's
23:22
intuitive to the founders you're working with?
23:24
Are they already halfway there or you know, maybe what is kind
23:28
of like, how do you convert them?
23:33
I mean, the, the first step is I think we're so trained to try to
23:37
build SAS as founders, we focus down on a tool.
23:41
But you know, you play with a ton of AI, as do I.
23:44
It's pretty the, the tech boat of all these SAS tools is
23:49
collapsing. You know, there was a we, there
23:52
was a company I know that built the marketplace and it took, I
23:56
had three of the founders with me and we all agreed that normal
23:58
marketplaces of that size took about two to three years and a
24:01
team of about 10 to build this company built it with one
24:04
engineer, 28 days and was carrying some of the similar
24:07
volume. And so like that's an example I
24:08
tell with investors because I'm like, I don't think a lot of us
24:11
realize that actually the tech layer is no longer defensible in
24:14
the same way that it once was. And so because that's the first
24:17
thing that that I have to really talk to founders about is like,
24:20
yeah, you want a tech advantage, but that's through a network
24:22
effect or that's through a distribution advantage, the tech
24:27
advantage itself and, and over building on R&D with 10s of
24:30
millions of dollars before you sell to a client is, is old
24:33
world and that just doesn't work.
24:35
The second thing is I think a lot of founders, they we pick
24:39
founders that have a propensity to sell, but you have to also be
24:42
really comfortable in our line of work of managing humans and
24:46
managing technology. And so those two together have
24:49
to play nice and you have to be able to manage it.
24:51
And when I start talking to founders, it's essentially like,
24:55
do you want to build an AI? Yeah.
24:57
And would you like to have a cash flowing business that you
24:59
could expand and that your pound for pound more efficient than a
25:02
billion dollar incumbent? So most start-ups fail because
25:05
they don't find product market fit.
25:07
Then the next reason they fail is Co founders.
25:09
So I know a design agency as product market fit.
25:13
It's actually not not incredibly hard to get product market fit
25:15
and services. It's hard to execute the
25:17
services and that's where we really come in as the natural Co
25:20
founder with the founder. Credible, you know, there's and
25:25
I like how you're you're making specific mention of managing
25:29
technology and people. You know, there has been there
25:33
was talk of like, hey, we're going to see our first ten man
25:35
billion or Unicorn. We're going to see our first
25:38
five person Unicorn. We're going to see a one person
25:41
Unicorn where, you know, the, the, the weight of that just, I
25:46
think probably for a lot of founders is there's like a, a
25:50
brewing anxiety of like, I have too many people.
25:53
I need to minimize people. But really at the end of the
25:56
day, like you're going to have to rely on on people to be on
26:01
your side, if for nothing else, because the robots just have a
26:04
very, you know, shiny shoulder to cry on.
26:07
It just doesn't, it doesn't feel good.
26:09
So how do you like to balance or when you, when you're thinking
26:12
about like how to balance technology and people, you know,
26:15
founders that do it well, what do you look for?
26:18
Yeah, I think that there's bad head count and good head count,
26:22
bad head count and and this happens a lot and like let's
26:25
call it pre 2023 companies where you go raise $100 million round
26:29
and that would mostly go to head count and you'd be hiring like
26:32
content marketing people, whatever.
26:34
And like and and I remember at one point in time found funds
26:37
were diligence in you on could you even Ryan, could Ryan even
26:41
hire 100 people right now? Like do they know that many
26:43
people in network? And that was a part of
26:46
diligence. And I think that that's bad head
26:48
count because it's really hard to raise 100 million and hurdle
26:52
that to where a fund needs that to be hurdled.
26:55
And so if you're out there, you're like, I don't know how to
26:57
sell, but I'm gonna hire a sales person that's like that head
27:00
count or you're like, I should do growth.
27:02
So I'm gonna hire a head of growth.
27:04
Doesn't make sense. Or even worse, my investor just
27:07
doubled my round. I'm gonna go hire double the
27:09
people I was going to to do the same thing.
27:12
Good head count. I think I call it kind of like
27:16
the elevator operator. So like the elevator worked, but
27:19
we had elevator operators for a long time.
27:21
Why? Because there's a trust curve.
27:22
So even if you believe in AGI and I, I was listening to a
27:25
really great podcast the other day where there was, you know,
27:29
an AI safety expert on there and they were talking about what was
27:31
going to happen by 2026 and 2036 and, and all the stuff with AI
27:36
and, and they were, you know, they're saying, OK, at this
27:38
point where like a bunch of us aren't going to have jobs and
27:40
all this stuff. And I'm like, yeah, like, maybe
27:42
from a technical perspective, we can keep increasing compute and
27:45
energy to get this thing smarter and smarter and smarter and the
27:48
software gets more efficient. But I think there's also this
27:51
component of like, when is your mom going to go and be like, I
27:54
completely trust this AI with all my banking info or I
27:56
completely trust this AI to drives my car.
28:01
And I think the tech will be there a lot sooner than my mom
28:04
will trust those businesses. And that's just like any of us
28:07
running our companies is like, you're going to want that
28:10
elevator operator for a long time.
28:12
Right now we're seeing the elevator operators do about 30%
28:16
of the work, sometimes 10% of the work, but generally that's
28:18
where they're at. But we're seeing that
28:20
exponentially decrease. But the, the end, our end
28:24
customers still want that really great designer.
28:27
They still want that amazing EA. Like our EA business is not a
28:30
tech only EA business with some people in the Philippines.
28:33
It's like actually the best in class E as that we build an Iron
28:37
Man suit of AI around to build to give you a great product.
28:40
And so our product is placing that amazing EA with the right
28:45
technology to deliver something to you.
28:47
And so I think when there's the best humans involved with the
28:50
best tech, that's the right headcount when I think it's,
28:53
hey, let me just add double my my headcount size so I can like
28:57
get to the next fundraising ground.
28:58
Like that's really risky in this environment because most of
29:02
those jobs like do you need a content marketer anymore?
29:05
Do you need like junior accountants anymore?
29:07
Like if you're, if you're going out and trying to build an old
29:09
business pre 2023, I think you're going to have a hard time
29:12
in the market. Yeah, I agree.
29:14
I mean, what do they call it? Seed strapping now where?
29:17
Yeah, you know, it used to be, oh, I raised a $10 million seed.
29:20
I got to spend that in 18 months.
29:22
That way I can raise my $25 million round, you know.
29:25
So like there was, I suppose that was the correction, you
29:29
know, after the big, you know, spike in hiring during COVID is
29:33
that companies were like actually we were kind of
29:37
bloated, honestly. And so they they all kind of
29:39
paired back and now we're starting to see that that
29:41
rebound now. But I'm still seeing this
29:44
though, like I'm seeing people raise like $60 million rounds or
29:47
$50 million rounds for like companies that are like, we're
29:50
AI this or that. And I'm like, but then they're
29:52
like posting all these roles online that for that the AI is
29:54
supposed to do. And I'm like, I thought you
29:56
didn't have Ford deployed engineers and then they're like
29:58
hiring Ford deployed engineers. And I'm like, OK, that's, that's
30:02
interesting to me. So like that's that's why for me
30:04
and affinity, one of my key things is headcount pills
30:08
because of I am promising my end customers AI first, we need to
30:13
be AI 1st. And then I need that make that
30:15
promise for investors. And I think investors are going
30:17
to start getting really savvy to this in the next like 6 to 12
30:20
months because I just don't think that that old playbook
30:23
works. Yeah, Well, it's like a whole
30:25
new playbook is emerging. You know, I mean, Sam Altman
30:27
talks about that like this is the time for creators and idea
30:30
people and, you know, for founders, you know, the
30:32
listeners of this show, you know, it, it does become like,
30:35
OK, if if my technology isn't defensible, what is?
30:39
Well, it's me, you know, And it's like ultimately, like the
30:41
personal distribution you have and your reputation becomes more
30:45
powerful than ever. Or Joe, if you watch The Office,
30:49
Michael Scott's like I could create 5 Michael Scott paper
30:52
companies. I can create the next Michael
30:54
Scott paper company. And that's always a joke I have
30:55
with my wife who's a founder too.
30:56
And I'm like, I'd create another bread and paper company like
30:59
that's five. And I think if we can get to a
31:02
point where we have, I'm even talking to some founders about
31:04
building autonomous CE OS, where now think about this like you
31:09
could be a founder managing a portfolio of autonomous CE OS
31:12
and thinking about launching ideas and curating ideas.
31:15
And so for me, I'm very optimistic about the future
31:18
because as long as you can see an angle or see a problem and
31:22
help design a solution to solve it, there's gonna be better and
31:25
better ways to execute and manage that to degrees that
31:27
we've never had before in our lives.
31:29
Yeah, yeah, very, it's, it's interesting.
31:33
Like as fast as things are, are getting faster, as fast things
31:37
are getting faster. You know, there's a lot of
31:40
friction and there's a lot of things slowing it down.
31:42
So, you know, all the anxiety about like, oh, you know, AI is
31:48
not going to take your jobs. Somebody who knows AI is going
31:50
to take your jobs, which just means that they can go through
31:53
like 17 points, A2 factor authentication to get the right
31:56
apps connected just so that they can create a an agent to talk to
32:01
the other agent. I mean, I, I don't know about
32:04
you, but it I don't know if I've ever been more frustrated with
32:07
tools right now, you know, we're we're yeah, go ahead.
32:11
So I I. Mean I I think that that I share
32:13
the same sentiment, but I think we need to have perspective on
32:16
how early it is in in the game. Sure.
32:19
And if like I was a little young, I still got my AOLCDS and
32:24
got online and I was using the Internet then, but like the
32:27
Internet now is so much different than the Internet
32:29
then, but the promise stayed, stayed the same.
32:32
And I think, you know, like think about APIs and, and all of
32:35
that. And now we're just in this
32:37
really early inning. And I think where we're going to
32:39
get is really a different user experience.
32:42
And so we're still building in some ways, even as, as
32:45
entrepreneurs and builders in AI, we're building with an old
32:48
user experience where in the future, I love watching like
32:51
levels on Twitter, like vibe code or, you know, I think he
32:54
was like building a video game. And I was like, this is
32:56
incredible. And, and I think that like we're
32:58
kind of got to get to that point where I'll just be able to be
33:00
like at the gym and be like, Hey, give me like Minecraft, but
33:04
with some guns like that sounds cool.
33:06
And then it'll be and do it. And, and so I think the UX is
33:10
actually changing. So like we're, we're frustrated.
33:12
I aspire that like the the underlying US is in a shift and
33:17
and my general sentiment is like, yeah, I feel the same way.
33:20
But but the thing that I feel that I'm more scared about is
33:23
let's say these things keep getting really smarter at an
33:25
exponential rate. My total aggregate knowledge
33:28
like let's say I'm 100% good at pythons, you know like or IA
33:33
100% know cloud computing or I know I know mobile app
33:35
development that the the evolution of those underlying
33:39
technologies is like something we can comprehend now think
33:42
about it's like if all the models themselves start driving
33:44
new innovation and what's happening now is we have all
33:46
these labs all over the world that are launching new
33:48
frameworks new models. I just heard of a new one in
33:50
China I need to check out. I don't know if you heard about
33:53
like Kimi, like Kimi, but like, but like I need to check that
33:58
out. And now I'm like, OK, my, my
33:59
gross percentage knowledge of like what is most effective in
34:02
AI is decreased because until I go and like figure that thing
34:05
out. And so what's going to happen is
34:06
I think exponentially that will just keep going down.
34:09
And so like we kind of like on a percent total, like no less and
34:12
less. Yeah, right.
34:16
Yeah, you know, and I want to, I want to ask you about UI too,
34:20
UIUX. Yeah, because you're seeing a
34:22
lot of products. You're people are demoing stuff.
34:24
You're, you're in the thick of it.
34:26
I have this intuition right now for, for AI products that like
34:32
typing sucks. I don't want to type.
34:35
I want one button, 1 button to solve my problem, whatever it
34:38
may be. And I just want the AI to run in
34:40
the background like magic. I don't want it to slap me in
34:42
the face. You know what I mean?
34:45
What, what are you seeing that's like super effective and and
34:48
maybe kind of like great for go to market, just great for
34:50
getting like the users just hooked immediately as far as UI
34:55
goes. So one of the one of my
34:58
companies, I will say which one just so I can go more detail.
35:03
They're they're targeting mid market businesses that don't
35:07
really have full like dev teams, but they want access to AI and
35:13
they want access to their data and knowledge.
35:15
And the primary medium that the CEOs and the boards of these
35:18
companies, and these are like pretty big businesses are is
35:21
phone. So they'll call it up and it'll
35:23
be like, hi, I'm Ryan. I am your, your CRO, your
35:28
virtual CRO. What would you like to know?
35:31
It's like, oh, like, hey, Ryan, like tell me about like, what
35:33
are some deals on the pipeline? It's like, OK, these are, we
35:36
have Burger King, Taco Bell and McDonald's in the pipeline.
35:39
And by the way, like, OK, is there any problems?
35:41
Oh, yeah, Taco Bell like didn't sign it's agreement.
35:44
The team's having trouble with it.
35:45
Oh, that sounds bad. Yeah.
35:47
But like the team looks like they're on it because they just
35:49
did this, this and this. And like we're seeing people
35:51
interact that way like you would almost with like an actual
35:54
employee. And that is what the thesis of
35:57
one of our companies is. It's like we're actually
35:59
targeting a whole different UX layer because we actually think
36:02
like being on the computer and being on your mobile phone is,
36:05
is probably an outdated modal to some degree.
36:09
And so like that's one area of UX that I've seen that I'm
36:13
seeing a lot of traction with. And then for me personally, I
36:17
find myself like vibe coding over audio or not vibe coding,
36:20
but like vibe prompting over audio to like Grok and everybody
36:25
else because it's like, I'm like, OK, this is that this
36:27
doesn't quite work or like change this, change that.
36:31
I agree. You know, I invoice, I, I kind
36:33
of toggle back and forth because usually I'm kind of embarrassed
36:37
about what I'm like doing online.
36:40
Not that it's like salacious or anything, but it's usually
36:43
pretty weird, you know, like it like how much is a what was I
36:47
looking up? Where can I buy 5 gallons of
36:50
porcupine quills? You know what I mean?
36:52
So like it's not something you want to say out loud
36:53
necessarily. Like what the heck are you
36:55
doing? Be like, I don't want to explain
36:56
it, but you know, so I I'm really curious too, like how,
37:01
you know, devices and things will start to be able to kind of
37:05
hack short codes. You know, I just feel like
37:08
there's something better than typing flat into a glowing
37:11
rectangle. And like, you know, chat
37:13
obviously was like the way to use LLMSI mean obviously,
37:17
because openly I nailed it, but as it moves forward, it's like,
37:21
OK, I can talk to it. Those are great.
37:22
We've had several people that are utilizing kind of vote voice
37:27
AI agents. We had, you know, VAPI was on
37:29
the show and you know, so like that that really works,
37:32
especially it when it's like a method that you're accustomed to
37:36
is like using the phone or being on slack or like all the the
37:39
have you. Seen what?
37:40
Have you seen what, like Zuck? Zuck was on a podcast or doing
37:44
an interview and he had the new Ray Bans on.
37:46
But they have a neural basically like a neural strap.
37:50
And you can like text like that. Yeah.
37:54
And I, I like actually Raymans don't look good on me.
37:56
So it's like, I wasn't planning on getting in, but I saw that
37:58
and I was like, OK, I want to get that because it's like, I'm
38:01
going to just be sitting here being like, like, I think that
38:04
could be, that could be a very like interesting modal modality
38:08
of like UIUX. And I, I think a lot of people
38:10
in the ultra hype circles are, are going to be like, OK, you're
38:13
going to get to a point. You're going to have like some
38:14
sort of interface that just like you're to think it and it's
38:17
going to go. And I'm like, that'd be cool.
38:19
But you know, I think more practically voice or you know,
38:23
that type of that type of thing. Yeah, exactly.
38:25
Well the the inner Estes voice needs to be tempered by what I'm
38:29
actually signaling it to do and go completely nuts.
38:33
Would like order like a bag of Spears or something weird or
38:37
like 10 lbs of marbles and be like brain yet you let me down
38:40
again. You of course we really want all
38:44
these marbles, but what are you going to do with these?
38:46
Yeah, it's very interesting, so. I'm more curious about like
38:49
where you can start to work as you exchanges, you know, like
38:53
we're so like, think about like 1020 years ago, we were so into
38:58
like cubicles and like at the office and whatever.
39:00
And then like COVID happened and now we're like more Zoom culture
39:03
at home and we're hybrid at home.
39:05
And then I think like, the next wave will be, you know, imagine
39:08
if you didn't need this desk or computer more than like once a
39:10
week. You might be able to just like,
39:12
be out with your child or like at the gym doing what you need
39:16
to do or like on a walk, meditating and writing a memo,
39:19
you know? And that well, and that's kind
39:21
of the promise of these these agent swarms, right?
39:25
It's the human in the loop becomes less and less like
39:29
prescient and like it also because, you know, as you know,
39:33
maybe the the best LL Ms. we got now are in high school and they
39:35
still regress back to kindergarten.
39:38
But once they're in college and once they, they got their pH DS
39:41
and once they're definitely way smarter than me and I've got 100
39:44
of them, you know, at my fingertips and they're
39:47
preemptively understanding what the outcomes I'm going to want
39:50
are that you, you get to more and more solutions like that
39:54
where you're kind of just like you're in science fiction land,
39:57
you know, but it, it's really interesting because right now
40:00
that's being defined, you know, of like what, what are people
40:03
willing to do? And like how, how can you
40:05
control it? Not even the Internet, but like,
40:07
you know, AI in a way that like is maybe more conducive
40:11
ergonomically to your point. I mean, I, I think that like as
40:14
like kind of. Pastoral apes, what we should be
40:17
doing is probably walking about 5 or 6 miles a day and just kind
40:21
of laying around, you know? I mean, I think where our
40:24
highest value too is think of the network effect of your in
40:28
person network. So that's like another company
40:30
we have, but like it's another thesis that I'm I'm into, which
40:35
is essentially it's like I'm focused on expanding my personal
40:38
network. So just like social media for
40:39
your private life, there's nothing that that like expands
40:42
into your professional network to like LinkedIn, like didn't
40:45
actually, if anything like erodes that because it's like
40:47
all this like not great stuff on there.
40:50
And so for me, I think this time we'll open up like you and I
40:53
meeting and talking about stuff or like us getting a coffee or
40:57
having dinner or like like that's where the creativity is
41:00
going to happen and that's where there's going to be this huge
41:02
network effect. And so I think that that more in
41:05
person and more connectivity is actually like human to human
41:09
connectivity is going to get more and more important.
41:11
I totally agree. I think that actually like is, I
41:14
mean, we are communal apes, you know, we should be kind of like
41:17
picking bugs off each other and wrestling a little bit and
41:20
stuff, you know, so for the best to, to bring out the best and
41:24
what we're capable of from a production that just makes
41:27
humans happier, you know, I mean, I'm very interested in
41:30
that too. You know, I built a career in
41:32
like, you know, founder LED marketing because, you know,
41:35
one, I'm adamant that like, if you're really a founder CEO, you
41:39
have to put the the the company on your back, otherwise you
41:42
should give that title to somebody else.
41:44
But I also think that like holistically it is, it's best
41:47
for you, you know? And by the way, as a fun fact to
41:51
that, every single one of our companies mirrors sort of like
41:56
we saw what was happening with Alex Karp and Palantir and Alex
41:59
Karp, if, if you're listers don't know, they handle, he
42:01
handles 80% of Palantir steals. Still like used to get beat up
42:05
for that as a founder being like, oh, you don't have this
42:07
big giant sales team that's doing the thing we're seeing
42:10
across all of our companies. It's almost the exact same thing
42:12
with AI is that instead of bidding and expanding into a big
42:15
sales team, founder LED sales can go like much further down
42:18
the line. And so I wanted to like, as
42:20
you're mentioning that I, it just got me being like, yeah,
42:23
like that it would make sense too from the connectivity
42:26
perspective of that getting more important.
42:28
So cool, OK, I love what you're doing.
42:31
I'm so interested in this. I, you know, for all the
42:33
founders that are listening, let's say that they have an idea
42:37
or let's say even better yet, they're exiting a company.
42:39
They've got 6 ideas. You know, what's a good entry
42:42
point to come speak with your team?
42:44
What does the process look like to becoming involved?
42:47
Like what does that look like? Onboarding.
42:50
Basically either hit me up on Twitter or e-mail me or go to
42:54
our site. We have, we have an open general
42:56
founder role that we're always looking for.
42:57
And then we also have specific companies we're looking to find
43:00
founders for that we have like strong thesises on.
43:03
And then essentially like it starts with just a blank page
43:05
and it's like, OK, right, write the memo.
43:07
It's like you're, I've invested in 10 or 20 of these.
43:10
Like you're going to be the one behind it.
43:12
Write the memo. And then we start seeing how we
43:14
work together. And I help write that memo.
43:17
Francis Pedraza, who's my Co founder and our chairman, he
43:20
helps write that like he bounces that off of you as well.
43:23
And and then from there, like you meet the other CE OS, they
43:26
do the same process. And we, you know, for us, like,
43:28
just like you're talking a lot about the communal apes, like
43:32
being an entrepreneur, like building together rather than
43:34
building separate is also powerful.
43:36
And so like our other CE OS will meet with you and you'll get
43:39
ideas from them, their businesses, you'll figure out if
43:42
our culture works for you. And then ultimately it goes to
43:44
my board who we, we have our own IC of sorts, but we started
43:48
companies for meeting people like we usually, it usually
43:52
takes about 60 to 90 days for both sides to get comfortable
43:56
and like learn about it. But we've done it faster.
43:58
And then they're, some have gone longer, but that's, that's how
44:00
to get in touch with us. And we're always loving to like,
44:02
meet founders. Yeah, it's great.
44:05
And as far as like what are kind of attributes that maybe thread
44:08
the founders all together that make some kind of like Infinity
44:12
stock? I actually there.
44:15
So they're all very different. Like we have technical founders
44:17
I love, I've sales oriented founders, I've designed like
44:20
more design oriented founders. I've remote, I've in person, but
44:25
really like we're we're all willing to be very, we're all
44:30
willing to be wrong. So we're heavily Socratic.
44:33
Even at the board level, we're very scrappy.
44:37
So our first move isn't to come in and burn through 10 million
44:40
bucks. Our first move is to go and get
44:41
a customer, figure out the problem and build some cool
44:43
technology. And then, you know, like all of
44:48
us like to have a lot of fun. And so, you know, for us, like
44:52
being an entrepreneur is fun and we like playing the game
44:55
together. And, and so people who you know,
44:57
it's for us entrepreneurship. It's a multiplayer game, not a
45:02
solo game. So nobody else gets to pick up
45:04
controller #2? Yeah, yeah, play some, play some
45:08
8 on 8 Halo I. Think that's what it feels like?
45:12
Infinity right there yeah, yeah, yeah.
45:13
I mean that's that's the move. But you know, I didn't realize
45:16
this until we made Infinity, but I was like, man, like
45:19
multiplayer Halo, like single player Halo is fun and you could
45:22
like speed run it, but multiplayer Halo, like people
45:25
driving to warthogs shooting missiles like this is gonna get
45:27
fun. And we're, we're basically, you
45:29
know, doubling the size of the portfolio and our biggest rate
45:32
limiting factor is amazing people who can come build with
45:34
us. So that's why I like, I love
45:37
meeting people like you, Ryan, because you're such a good
45:39
community around you that, you know, I can get them get the
45:42
word out there to be like, talk to me, talk to me about your
45:45
idea. You can also have no idea.
45:47
Like I actually love it when people have no idea.
45:48
They're just like, wait, the services thing plus AI sounds
45:50
sick. Let's go talk.
45:52
That's the best, actually. I totally agree.
45:55
And founders are, I don't know, I, I, it was an easy transition
45:59
for me because I came from the music business and making,
46:01
making music and things like that.
46:03
And that same kind of spark of creativity exists with the
46:06
founder community. And now more than ever, it's
46:08
like you're really rewarded for out-of-the-box thinking and for
46:13
maybe being a little philosophical, maybe, you know,
46:15
betting on some like true core values, you know, and just being
46:20
like, hey, man, I mean, I, I spent all weekend thinking about
46:22
my grandpa, just a little bit anecdotal about me and just what
46:26
an absolutely remarkable man he was.
46:28
He was a Major General in the Marine Corps.
46:32
And he was, he, I mean, he looked like the prototypical
46:36
Marine, tall, handsome, you know, you could shave with his
46:39
jawline. He was that guy.
46:41
But he was also just the, when you spoke to him, he made you
46:45
feel like you're the most important person on planet
46:48
Earth. He was just incredible.
46:49
And so I really was just focusing in on like, how, how
46:52
can I bring that energy to people?
46:54
Because I love that feeling when you build somebody up, you build
46:57
up your team and they something remarkable happens.
47:00
It's a magical moment that AI can't reproduce yet.
47:05
But but maybe you can. So again, off off target, but.
47:10
So now I want to ask all these questions about I.
47:11
I love military history, so now I want to ask all these
47:14
questions about your grandfather, but.
47:15
He's incredible man. Rest in peace, love to death.
47:18
But I want to talk about you. This is about you, you.
47:20
I know you have your own podcast which please plug.
47:25
Yeah, come check out not another pod.
47:27
That's my that's my podcast. And we essentially go through
47:31
it's, it's all these epic founders and how they've built
47:33
companies because I think so you'll tell the the upside of
47:38
the story of the numbers and the cool products and all the stuff.
47:41
But we we kind of get into the founder therapy of it.
47:44
And so I've had some really cool guests on.
47:46
We just launched the season. So come check it out.
47:49
It's on all the platforms notanotherpodcast.co.
47:52
Cool. And you're working with Jake
47:53
Hurwitz on that, isn't that right?
47:54
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This makes my producer.
47:57
Yeah, and you know, it's, it's interesting synergy because I, I
48:01
heard you on Code Story and Noah's a buddy of mine and Jake
48:04
Hurwitz is a buddy of mine from another world.
48:06
It's like all the world's converging.
48:08
But I wanted to mention your podcast largely because you're a
48:10
podcast to talk. And what happens is when you get
48:12
a podcast, you don't end up talking, you just interview
48:14
anybody. So I want to make sure you have
48:16
your. That's why I was excited to be
48:19
on here. I was like, I've I've been
48:20
interviewing, yeah. Totally.
48:22
OK. So so founder comes on board,
48:25
they're they're nestled in with the community, they build a
48:28
product, we're feeling good about it.
48:30
How are you bringing products to market now?
48:33
What does go to market look like for for your portfolio at this
48:35
point? I mean it, it really is founder
48:39
by founder dependent. So we hire CE OS, not general
48:42
managers. So like that's where I'm like,
48:43
OK, like if you, Ryan, you were my CEO, I'd be like, how do you
48:46
do it? And that's part of your memo.
48:47
But generally speaking, most of our companies, they go and they
48:51
find an existing client. And, and so we typically start
48:54
with clients that are in tough spots.
48:56
So rather than going to like super, super high and hiring,
49:00
we'll go to someone in the retail space that's having a
49:03
hard time to hire during the holidays.
49:05
And then we can go and be like, actually, we can use AI and
49:07
we'll give you a better price or we'll give you a better quality.
49:10
I like quality better the price, but we'll give you a better
49:12
quality and speed than you're getting from your existing
49:14
recruiting agency. Why don't you give us a shot and
49:17
we'll be we'll have you be a design partner.
49:19
So we are able to close a really large retail chain to do that
49:23
staffing for them. And now that's expanded that
49:26
contracts expanded really far. And so like usually that's what
49:31
we do or like Labyrinth are permitting approval company.
49:35
It actually was founded by Stuart Lacy and he's an
49:39
incredible repeat founder. But he his first customer was
49:42
deep vision, a small format nuclear power reactor as because
49:45
he could build an AI process platform to help manage their
49:49
permitting and be aligned with them on the outcome rather than
49:52
build them hours and hours and hours like a normal consultant
49:55
would. And so our top founders and
50:00
actually all of our companies go and find design partners 1st and
50:02
then essentially that services you wanna go get the data as
50:06
fast as you can cuz then you get the data, you get the money, you
50:09
get the cash flow, and then you can start iterating and
50:11
building. The biggest mistake I see people
50:13
make is like, I raise money or like my whole product is raising
50:16
money. And then I've got now I've got
50:18
the money. So now I have to build the
50:19
perfect software. And then someday I'll close some
50:22
clients and make some money on the thing.
50:23
And I think in this in this world, you'll just get blown by
50:26
because so many people are going really fast.
50:28
Yeah, that, that does seem like kind of the, the real
50:31
performance enhancing drug, so to speak, is, is the having the
50:36
right design partner. So when you have founders with,
50:39
you know, experience, a lot of times they're bringing those
50:42
relationships aboard with them, but they're like, hey, we have
50:45
these two 3 enterprise clients that are willing to come on
50:48
board as design partners because we can 2X3X the value at the
50:52
same price potentially. And then So what, you know, once
50:55
you're ready to throw the switch, boom, you got two or
50:58
three big clients, you got the logos fresh on the, on the
51:01
website that seems to be really helpful.
51:02
Are are are folks having a success kind of just cold
51:06
calling design partners? I would say so cold colleagues.
51:11
Ever since the last iOS ship shipment, cold colleagues like
51:15
basically dead. Like I've like literally turned
51:18
it off on my phone and I used to be like a beast of a cold
51:20
caller. How did you do that?
51:22
How do I turn it off? So there's a new setting, so
51:26
update to the latest setting in Apple.
51:30
And then there is a new like call screening setting where
51:32
they'll have like an AI basically screen your call for
51:35
you if it's not in your phone book really.
51:38
And then it and then it transcribes to you.
51:41
It'll be like, I'm Ryan, I'm calling and I can like, oh, it's
51:43
Ryan pick up. Cool, I'm definitely trying that
51:47
out. Even if my phone was like almost
51:48
unusable because like once you start doing all this stuff, it's
51:51
just everyone starts and I'm like, I scrub myself from
51:53
everything. So, so step one, that's like
51:56
cold calling. I love the grit of cold calling
51:59
and Glengarry Glen Ross kind of situations.
52:02
But I, I think that that's basically like DOA.
52:05
The next is like outbound e-mail.
52:07
People are still doing that a ton, but essentially all the big
52:10
emailing e-mail companies are using AI now to screen and, and
52:14
do spam. So response rates now have
52:16
dropped by 50% from where they were a couple years ago.
52:19
I think they're, they're like 1 1/2% now and they used to be
52:21
like 3%. And so that's that's also a
52:24
really tough channel. SEO is also incredibly tough.
52:28
And so where we're seeing traction in the smile of being
52:31
on this podcast and find founders is telling our story in
52:34
real, authentic ways. Short form video that works,
52:37
long form podcast actually amazing.
52:40
We do events and we do interactive events where we
52:42
bring our engineers and build people real things in real life.
52:45
So like we, we sponsor Abundance 360, which is Peter Diamitis
52:50
conference and we'll build AIH is there and that's what we're
52:53
doing this year. And then we also one of our
52:58
company's ascendancy and basically comes in and maps your
53:03
whole Business Network and then finds you investors, people to
53:06
recruit and sales leads essentially from warm
53:10
introductions from the whole network.
53:12
So like, we essentially built a network effect company that goes
53:15
and drives, leads and drives, like, and, and we built a real
53:18
community behind or we'll do dinners and all sorts of other
53:21
things. But that's, that's typically how
53:23
we go and find other clients. And what I'll also say is like,
53:25
it doesn't have to just be the repeat founder that knows the
53:27
three enterprises. And like, that's how you're in
53:29
like, as long as you're empathetic and you're willing to
53:32
get yourself out there and build really good product.
53:35
I've seen like a lot of people close really great design
53:39
clients without an existing relationship.
53:42
You know, you just have to, like, meet people where they're
53:44
at and, like, be authentic and not be scammy.
53:47
Yeah. And it's like, hard, like, I
53:49
don't know. I feel like right now everybody
53:50
with AI is like leaning into the scammy thing.
53:53
Like, scammy emails, scammy calls.
53:55
It's like, how about just like not doing that?
53:57
Yeah, totally. I was, I was, I was like, man,
53:59
can I just get AAI Avatar to do something about this face?
54:03
Like now I'm stuck with it. I'm still stuck with it.
54:05
So here we go. You got a beautiful face, Ryan.
54:08
You're too sweet. OK, we got a couple minutes left
54:11
here. We got time for the lightning
54:12
round. Are you ready?
54:13
Let's do it. What's that?
54:15
OK, so you're creating AI services and you're challenging
54:21
the the the massive iconic tech brands out there, which is
54:25
amazing. What are some services you come
54:27
up against that maybe shouldn't you be using AI at all?
54:33
Oof. I mean, you're a doctor.
54:39
Like I, I like, like I think there's a lot of good copilot
54:42
stuff around this stuff, but I think like you still want like
54:45
your doctor because AI should not replace your doctor.
54:48
They're working on that. If you think the intuition in
54:51
the experience of a doctor still like Trump's, the because the
54:55
because. They can see like I think, I
54:57
think that's like a perfect copilot example.
55:01
But like, yeah, there's definitely like our hospital
55:03
network has an AI copilot that can ask for knowledge work.
55:06
But I think I still like, I'm still at a point where I want
55:10
like a real doctor, not like a full AI doctor.
55:13
I, I would say litigation law, so not corporate law, but like
55:18
when you're actually in a lawsuit, you want like a real
55:21
lawyer from judgement perspective.
55:23
And so, so think like one step down.
55:25
Like let's say you've gotten a like lawsuit, you want like a
55:27
real lawyer, like litigating that and like consulting with
55:30
you on that. I, I think really like the way
55:33
to process map this. That's where in the lightning
55:35
round is anything that is a high trust judgement based, that's
55:42
more experience reinforced. That's typically where you want
55:45
the human to be. And then obviously, like in my
55:49
world, you augment those with with AI.
55:51
Totally love it. OK, if you were to join Infinity
55:55
as a founder, do you have an idea of knocking around that
55:58
you'd like to bring to Infinity as an operator?
56:03
We're working on an AI general counsel company.
56:06
Cool. And so I really want an awesome
56:09
founder from the legal space to come build that.
56:12
I also would love to do something, my last business was
56:16
in the insurance space. I would love to do something in
56:18
the insurance space because I think there's a lot, there's a
56:21
lot of companies right, for disruption in the brokerage area
56:24
of that. And then I love technical
56:29
founders. So information security and like
56:33
device hardening, I think that that's incredibly important.
56:37
And I think it's somewhat of a tech product, but it's also a
56:39
managed service. And so any and all technical
56:43
founders in any space, I like love because I think not enough
56:46
tech services get the credit for it.
56:48
So like one of our new companies is called Sanctum and it's just
56:52
launching and it's an IT services company that's
56:55
predominantly using AI and people to manage your IT.
57:00
Well, let's just put the APB out like you're looking for founders
57:02
in specific areas. What any other categories that
57:05
would be helpful for you? Supply chain, we have a cold
57:12
action on our site that's coming out.
57:14
So if everyone should keep keep eyes out for that when this
57:17
podcast launched. But supply chain and finance,
57:22
different, different aspects of finance and accounting.
57:26
I think PR, we're really looking to do something in the public
57:30
relations and COM space and data technology, information
57:35
security. Amazing.
57:38
You heard it here, folks. Come hit up Brennan.
57:40
He's he's got openings. Amazing.
57:43
Yeah, let's go. OK.
57:44
I got two more quick ones for you.
57:46
Is there ACEO or another entrepreneur that you're
57:49
following or you really admire? I I admire levels just cuz he's
57:54
like the ultimate like builder. I also I love Mark Cuban.
58:02
I think he's quite the entrepreneur and like like epic
58:06
billionaire guy. You've got to respect Elon Musk
58:09
and and the supply chains and the hardware that he builds.
58:14
Farmer lucky. I think what he's done with
58:16
Andrew and Oculus is epic and and those are both things that
58:21
it's like who who would pick up and be like, I'm going to go
58:22
build a defense prime and actually kick ass at it.
58:26
I think that that's incredible. And then yeah, like, like a lot
58:32
of those probably like since we're in the AI space too, I'll
58:37
also say like suck. And I know like he's getting
58:42
like beat up in these moments right now with different things,
58:46
but with like Llama. But I would never bet against
58:49
suck in my life. And I think he's just for, for
58:51
being able to like run the company the way he runs it.
58:54
He he runs it like a SEAL team. And I think it's really hard to
58:58
compete with him. And so I I always, I always have
59:02
a lot of respect there. So yeah.
59:04
Doctor Zuck. Plus he's a jiu jitsu guy now so
59:06
he's a fellow brother. Yeah, I'm not.
59:10
I have bad knees so I'm not allowed to jiu jitsu.
59:13
Yeah, that is why I, I stopped a few years ago.
59:17
I'm a yoga guy now, so. I just weight lift a ton, you
59:22
know, That's, that's my move. Nice.
59:24
OK. And and lastly, I know you
59:26
mentioned Rotary and in particular you know we like to
59:30
give shout outs to charitable organizations.
59:33
Can you talk a little bit about the work you did with Rotary?
59:37
Yeah. So it actually is something that
59:40
got me into tech is I, when I was in banking, I went and went
59:44
to India and with Rotary. And then I think the Gates
59:47
Foundation, we are part of the Polio Plus initiative, which is
59:50
a vaccine initiative to eradicate polio, which they did
59:53
in India, which is incredible. And so I want to just give a big
59:57
shout out to them as well as like the Gates Foundation and
1:00:00
doctors with like doctors within Borders, because I think going
1:00:05
out and providing medical benefits and different
1:00:07
communities is such a important thing.
1:00:10
And it also, you know, just directly translates to to lives
1:00:15
and GDP because we're all connected.
1:00:17
You know, like you can get on a plane and fly from anywhere
1:00:19
anymore and like, don't you want those people having healthcare
1:00:23
and having safety And you know, like we're all like a part of
1:00:26
one world. And I think going out and doing
1:00:28
things like that's really important.
1:00:30
So that's that's like my shout out.
1:00:32
Totally agree. You know, polio's a interesting
1:00:34
one too, because it was kind of like as the world became cleaner
1:00:36
and more sanitized, that's when the polio comes out because
1:00:39
they're not exposed to like these viruses.
1:00:41
So you have that big outbreak. And of course, polio was, was
1:00:45
knocked down to a 99.9% degree in the States.
1:00:49
But it's worth mentioning because there's a lot of like,
1:00:52
you know, vaccine skepticism now and maybe for rightful means.
1:00:55
I mean, I, I don't know everything, but you can
1:00:57
definitely point to like polio and certain vaccines
1:01:01
historically that have been such a net positive on planet Earth.
1:01:05
It's undeniable. Yeah, yeah.
1:01:07
It's a super stable vaccine that's been around I think since
1:01:10
the 40s or 50s. And then the cool thing I about
1:01:13
the polio vaccine and I'm just get the Fact Check me on here,
1:01:17
but I believe the creator gave it away.
1:01:19
And so rather than monetizing it, they gave it away.
1:01:22
And so I think that like, yeah, you can, we can have we can hold
1:01:25
our medical system to account, but I think on and on there's a
1:01:29
lot of things out there that make make the world a better
1:01:32
place. And for me, the, the polio
1:01:35
vaccine and, and eradicating polio and the work they're doing
1:01:38
to eradicate malaria and these other things like make a lot of
1:01:40
difference in people's lives. And so, you know, that's, that's
1:01:45
something I think that these organizations need a lot of
1:01:47
support. Totally agree.
1:01:48
You know, and just, you know, as far as AI goes, this is probably
1:01:51
going to be the biggest net positive is I believe the
1:01:54
insulin, the creator of insulin also gave it away for free
1:01:57
before it was, you know, appropriated the the patent.
1:02:00
But you know, what we're going to see is a lot more
1:02:03
medications, a lot more opportunities.
1:02:05
With that comes, you know, a certain amount of compliance and
1:02:07
we want to make sure it's all checked out.
1:02:08
But I'm really excited for like all those health benefits as
1:02:11
well. Brennan, this has been awesome.
1:02:15
I appreciate it. It's Infinity. constellation.com
1:02:18
is the website. Where can people connect with
1:02:20
you best online? I'm on Twitter, Brennan Pathetus
1:02:26
like you can, you can find me. I'm working on my new, I'm
1:02:30
working on a new handle. So I won't, I won't shout that
1:02:32
out until it gets confirmed, but yeah, you can.
1:02:35
And then the the you can see all my stuff on nonanotherpodcast.co
1:02:40
and get get connected with me on on its indieconstellation.com
1:02:44
so. Notanotherpodcast.co.
1:02:47
Fantastic show. I'm super enjoying it.
1:02:49
It's a new podcast too, so everyone can kind of get in and
1:02:52
have some new listening of a great new show.
1:02:55
Brendan, this has been awesome. Thanks so much.
1:02:57
Yeah, thanks for having me. All right, all right, coffee is
1:03:01
great. But coffee won't prep your
1:03:03
meetings for you. It'll just keep you awake while
1:03:05
you panic, hastily scrolling through LinkedIn at 6:59 AM.
1:03:10
Ambient, however, will prep your meetings.
1:03:12
Each morning you get a founder tuned briefing sourced overnight
1:03:16
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