Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / #HURDLEMOMENT: An Expert On How to Handle Wellbeing Shaming At Work

Transcript

#HURDLEMOMENT: An Expert On How to Handle Wellbeing Shaming At Work · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

0:00
Speaker 1: But let me be explicitly clear, it's not okay to
0:04
Speaker 1: make people feel guilty for doing simple things to not
0:08
Speaker 1: lose their bleep and to balance work with trying to
0:12
Speaker 1: have some space for their brain cells to not wither
0:16
Speaker 1: up and die.
0:31
Speaker 2: Hey, Hey, Emily ABOUDI here coming to you from the
0:34
Speaker 2: Age Studio. You are listening to Hurdle, a Wilens focused
0:38
Speaker 2: podcast reconnect with everyone from your favorite athletes to top
0:41
Speaker 2: experts and industry CEOs about their highest highs, toughest moments,
0:45
Speaker 2: and everything in between. We all go through hurdles in life,
0:49
Speaker 2: and my goal through these discussions is to empower you
0:52
Speaker 2: to better navigate yours and move with intention so that
0:55
Speaker 2: you can stride towards your own big potential and of
0:58
Speaker 2: course have some fun along the way. Today I am
1:03
Speaker 2: amped to be bringing you my conversation with Melissa Doman.
1:08
Speaker 2: She's an organizational psychologist, a former clinical mental health therapist,
1:12
Speaker 2: and mental health at work specialists, and that's exactly what
1:16
Speaker 2: we're going to be chatting about, how to navigate well
1:20
Speaker 2: being at work and more specifically a term that she
1:23
Speaker 2: has coined called well being shaming, and we dive into
1:27
Speaker 2: exactly what well being shaming is and how harmful that
1:32
Speaker 2: behavior can be, plus the reasons why wellbeing shaming may
1:37
Speaker 2: be happening in your workplace, from the mission to maintain
1:41
Speaker 2: the company's status quo to maybe someone wanting to fit
1:46
Speaker 2: in so that they mimic the behavior of others. Melissa
1:50
Speaker 2: offers up a script that you can follow on how
1:53
Speaker 2: to better explain your feelings when you are experiencing well
1:56
Speaker 2: being shaming in your workplace. And we also get into
1:59
Speaker 2: this really great discussion about the concept of work life
2:03
Speaker 2: balance and how it is possible if you put the
2:08
Speaker 2: right systems in place to safeguard your well being, including
2:12
Speaker 2: overall mental and physical health. Really really loved this conversation.
2:17
Speaker 2: I met Melissa down at the BBYO International Convention, so
2:21
Speaker 2: a huge, huge thank you to the good people there
2:24
Speaker 2: for connecting us. And speaking of traveling, I am really
2:28
Speaker 2: looking forward to tonight in Washington, DC. Can't wait to
2:31
Speaker 2: see all the hurdlers at Hotel.
2:33
Speaker 3: Zena this evening at six pm.
2:35
Speaker 2: Make sure you are following along with Hurdle over at
2:37
Speaker 2: Hurdle Podcast and I am over at Emily Abadi. Last
2:42
Speaker 2: a little bit of housekeeping if you're not yet subscribed,
2:44
Speaker 2: to the weekly Hurdle newsletter. The link to do so
2:48
Speaker 2: is in the show notes there in your inbox every Friday.
2:50
Speaker 2: You can get a lot of the same inspiration and
2:52
Speaker 2: motivation that you love from the show. And with that,
2:57
Speaker 2: let's get to hurdling.
3:08
Speaker 3: Today. I am sitting down with Melissa Doman.
3:11
Speaker 2: She's an organizational psychologist, a former clinical mental health therapist.
3:16
Speaker 2: It is Monday morning for me, author and mental health
3:18
Speaker 2: at work specialists.
3:19
Speaker 3: How you doing, Melissa?
3:21
Speaker 1: I am fabulous. How are you?
3:24
Speaker 3: Oh, she's fabulous because she just got a house.
3:27
Speaker 1: Yes, first time home owner, who's ready to be house poor?
3:31
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.
3:32
Speaker 2: You know what someone told me that before I was
3:34
Speaker 2: going to move into this apartment. They were like, how
3:36
Speaker 2: are you going to feel about being house poor? Honestly,
3:39
Speaker 2: everyone's different. Best decision I ever made, Like, feeling so
3:43
Speaker 2: good in my space is absolutely priceless for me.
3:47
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. I couldn't agree more that home has
3:50
Speaker 1: very much become a Oh how do I say this?
3:54
Speaker 1: Like a sanctuary? Because I work so hard, I'm constantly
3:58
Speaker 1: traveling to speak and stuff like that. When I come home,
4:01
Speaker 1: I want it to feel cozy and like something that
4:05
Speaker 1: my husband and I really constructed to help us fill
4:07
Speaker 1: our cups back up.
4:08
Speaker 2: You want to have the glass half full mentality all
4:12
Speaker 2: the time.
4:15
Speaker 1: Well, i'd say as full as full as reasonable, And
4:19
Speaker 1: you know on the days where it is kind of crap,
4:21
Speaker 1: that it still feels nice and cozy, for sure.
4:24
Speaker 2: I'm nice and cozy. Well, yeah, I'm so excited for you.
4:26
Speaker 2: Congrats again on this fun new chapter. I love when
4:29
Speaker 2: something like really exciting happens right before someone gets on
4:32
Speaker 2: the show, because then they're like energized, jazzed up, ready
4:37
Speaker 2: to talk today.
4:38
Speaker 3: We are ready to talk about well being.
4:40
Speaker 1: Shaming, Yes, one of my favorites. I remember when I
4:46
Speaker 1: was writing about it in the book, and when I
4:49
Speaker 1: used to talk about it in you know events and
4:53
Speaker 1: the beforetime before the world shut down and starting to
4:55
Speaker 1: again now and you see all these looks on people's
4:58
Speaker 1: faces like, oh, that's what it's called, and it is
5:02
Speaker 1: something that I talk about with as my grandfather would say,
5:05
Speaker 1: vim and.
5:05
Speaker 2: Vigor first and foremost, Why don't you give us a
5:08
Speaker 2: little bit of insight into how you became someone who
5:12
Speaker 2: considers themselves a mental health at work specialist. Give us
5:16
Speaker 2: some insight into your journey to this point in your career.
5:19
Speaker 1: It was very much a pick your own adventure path.
5:23
Speaker 1: And I remember when I was doing clinical work and
5:27
Speaker 1: I was so appreciative to get that counseling degree and
5:32
Speaker 1: to learn about the human condition and what people tend
5:35
Speaker 1: to struggle with in private. And I really value that
5:39
Speaker 1: time that I had because the things that people told me,
5:43
Speaker 1: the ways that I was able to teach them how
5:45
Speaker 1: to help themselves, that those are moments in time I
5:48
Speaker 1: will never forget. What really frustrated me, though, is I
5:51
Speaker 1: felt like I was treating people in the shadows and
5:55
Speaker 1: a broken narrative, and so it felt like it was,
5:58
Speaker 1: you know, treating one person at a time, small group
6:00
Speaker 1: at a time, but nothing was changing, and it didn't
6:03
Speaker 1: feel like it was enough. And a lot of those
6:06
Speaker 1: people said, there's no way, shape or form I could
6:10
Speaker 1: ever talk about this at work, and that really didn't
6:13
Speaker 1: sit well with me. So I thought, let me make
6:15
Speaker 1: an impact of the source. Let me switch to org
6:18
Speaker 1: psyche and see if I can if I can tinker
6:20
Speaker 1: with it a bit there, and so I switched into
6:23
Speaker 1: org psych doing you know, team dynamics, communication, emotional intelligence,
6:27
Speaker 1: all those great words, and I still do that work
6:30
Speaker 1: now because most people are walking around not having those
6:34
Speaker 1: skills developed, and then they take it out on others.
6:37
Speaker 1: But you still couldn't say the words mental health or
6:40
Speaker 1: mental illness in the workplace, and I was like, are
6:42
Speaker 1: we really doing this? Why? Why? And then I remember
6:47
Speaker 1: that when we had moved to London, that a contract
6:50
Speaker 1: I was on and said, oh, you're clinically trained, can
6:52
Speaker 1: you do a mental health awareness campaign for us? And
6:54
Speaker 1: it was like, really, yes, I would love to. And
6:59
Speaker 1: that was for you years ago, and I haven't looked
7:01
Speaker 1: back since. It has been a complete rocket ship for
7:04
Speaker 1: two core reasons. People want explicit permission to talk about
7:09
Speaker 1: it and they want to know how to not screw
7:10
Speaker 1: it up, and I'm happy to provide services for both.
7:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people hear
7:14
Speaker 2: what you're saying about the words mental health and work
7:18
Speaker 2: being in the same sentence and not being able to
7:20
Speaker 2: talk about that stuff in their own work environments. Definitely, certainly,
7:25
Speaker 2: certainly relatable. The silver lining, perhaps about the pandemic would
7:31
Speaker 2: be that innate level of vulnerability that came hand in
7:36
Speaker 2: hand with signing on from home right bringing that discussion
7:42
Speaker 2: to the forefront, saying things like I'm not okay today,
7:45
Speaker 2: knowing that we all had, you know, this shared communal experience,
7:49
Speaker 2: which was the pandemic.
7:51
Speaker 1: You know what's so interesting is even in the beforetime
7:56
Speaker 1: things were not okay, they were going on a path
7:59
Speaker 1: that maybe people feel more emotionally and physically unwell than
8:03
Speaker 1: ever before. You know, this with your work, and the
8:06
Speaker 1: pandemic literally forced us to stop and have a come
8:12
Speaker 1: to Jesus sort of of conversation with ourselves and basically went,
8:16
Speaker 1: this is why we can't have nice things, and we
8:20
Speaker 1: had to shift it all. And so when you're literally
8:22
Speaker 1: peering into people's homes, it changed the conversation entirely. And
8:28
Speaker 1: what's really interesting is that I've always found that each company,
8:32
Speaker 1: each industry, each person is on their own journey of
8:37
Speaker 1: willingness and readiness and motivation to talk about this. This
8:40
Speaker 1: topic has always been important, but the pandemic has put
8:43
Speaker 1: it so front and center in the world of work
8:45
Speaker 1: that any organizations in the coming years who're not talking
8:49
Speaker 1: about it will be the odd ones out. And so
8:53
Speaker 1: we're still very much in the infancy of these sort
8:55
Speaker 1: of discussions. If you think about, you know, the timeline
8:58
Speaker 1: of human history where it's only started in recent years,
9:01
Speaker 1: so we're still getting used to the training wheels, is
9:05
Speaker 1: what I would say. And people are still trying to
9:08
Speaker 1: figure out what good looks like and that's something that
9:10
Speaker 1: I'm trying to help them do. But just because we're
9:13
Speaker 1: not physically together and we're doing this in a remote
9:16
Speaker 1: environment or potentially people go back into the office. Sometimes
9:20
Speaker 1: this is very iterative. It's going to have to be
9:23
Speaker 1: continually updated because it's on the table, it's never going away.
9:28
Speaker 1: And anybody that tries to regress backwards is going to
9:31
Speaker 1: see their staff vote with their feet.
9:36
Speaker 2: Vote with their feet, ah, leaving, leaving the workplace. Well
9:41
Speaker 2: why don't we before we keep going, give a little
9:44
Speaker 2: bit of insight as to how you define well being
9:48
Speaker 2: shaming especially at work.
9:50
Speaker 1: Oh, this is one of my favorites. So, uh, my dear,
9:56
Speaker 1: I'm going to use you as an example, if you
9:58
Speaker 1: don't mind from back at all. In your corporate days,
10:02
Speaker 1: did you ever work at places where you heard people
10:04
Speaker 1: say something like, oh, it must be nice to sign
10:06
Speaker 1: off at four pm every day. Oh, it must be
10:09
Speaker 1: nice to you know, be able to take a run
10:11
Speaker 1: at lunchtime. You know, I wish I had, I wish
10:14
Speaker 1: I had that time in my schedule like you do.
10:17
Speaker 1: Or oh must be nice that you know a company
10:19
Speaker 1: lets you leave to to pick up your kids. I
10:21
Speaker 1: wish we could all be so lucky. Have you heard
10:23
Speaker 1: some ridiculous version of something like that?
10:26
Speaker 2: Definitely, especially working at my first company, a mom Centrinc. Company,
10:31
Speaker 2: where if you had a kid, there was a lot
10:33
Speaker 2: of flexibility for you, but for someone who may be
10:36
Speaker 2: younger without children. I didn't say those comments, but sometimes
10:40
Speaker 2: I was like, where's the flexibility for the rest of us?
10:43
Speaker 1: These examples are examples of well being shaming. And so
10:48
Speaker 1: what I mean by that is that when people are
10:52
Speaker 1: taking small actions to have a modicum of work life integration,
10:59
Speaker 1: because you work life balance, in my opinion, is a
11:03
Speaker 1: concept with bad branding, because when are we ever able
11:07
Speaker 1: to totally balance those things? But I digress. So basically,
11:11
Speaker 1: people take little jabs at you for trying to do small,
11:15
Speaker 1: reasonable things to manage and prioritize your mental health with work.
11:21
Speaker 1: So because that doesn't make people feel very good for
11:24
Speaker 1: a whole variety of reasons. It could be that it
11:27
Speaker 1: triggers them. It could be that they're trying to hold
11:29
Speaker 1: up the status quo at the company. It could be
11:32
Speaker 1: a whole host of reasons of why they say things
11:35
Speaker 1: like that, But let me be explicitly clear, it's not
11:38
Speaker 1: okay to make people feel guilty for doing simple things
11:43
Speaker 1: to not lose their bleep and to balance work with
11:48
Speaker 1: trying to have some space for their brain cells to
11:51
Speaker 1: not wither up and die. So lots of companies have
11:55
Speaker 1: problems with well being shaming, whether it comes from a leader,
11:58
Speaker 1: whether it comes from a colleague, and they tend to
12:00
Speaker 1: have a passive aggressive flair to it. And the thing
12:06
Speaker 1: that I tell people to say is doing things to
12:12
Speaker 1: balance and manage my mental health is a healthy adult practice.
12:15
Speaker 1: Can you help me understand why you don't agree. It's
12:18
Speaker 1: not rude, it's not flippant. You're asking a question. You're
12:23
Speaker 1: making a statement of value and boundary. What are they
12:26
Speaker 1: going to say? So I always tell people please do
12:29
Speaker 1: that report back because I want to know how far
12:32
Speaker 1: that person's jaw went to the floor.
12:35
Speaker 2: I you know, I think about saying something like that
12:38
Speaker 2: and putting that into practice, and I would imagine that
12:40
Speaker 2: perhaps some of the feedback that you've received maybe counterintuitive
12:45
Speaker 2: to what we'd hope to hear, right, because yes, there
12:48
Speaker 2: is certainly in some situations going to be even more pushed.
12:53
Speaker 1: Back one thousand percent. And I'm sure that you'll agree
12:58
Speaker 1: that when you put boundaries down, not everybody likes that.
13:02
Speaker 1: Not everybody thinks that feels good, and people start to
13:05
Speaker 1: have a bit of a pissing contest, and they go,
13:07
Speaker 1: oh yeah, and they lean in even harder. So I
13:11
Speaker 1: always tell people, whenever I give any sort of guidance
13:14
Speaker 1: like this, be prepared for the fact that someone may
13:17
Speaker 1: not like what you're saying, because you're trying to break
13:19
Speaker 1: a pattern. People don't like when you break patterns, patterns
13:22
Speaker 1: are comfortable.
13:23
Speaker 2: Or like unintentionally question authority right, because that's what some
13:27
Speaker 2: people will feel as though you are doing by speaking
13:30
Speaker 2: up to your right for mental health.
13:33
Speaker 1: One thousand percent. And so there are cases, and they
13:37
Speaker 1: wrote about this in the book that you got to
13:40
Speaker 1: read the room. And if the room seems as though
13:44
Speaker 1: it will just burst into the heat of a thousand
13:47
Speaker 1: suns by you saying something like that, is that the
13:49
Speaker 1: right place for you to work? Or if someone has
13:54
Speaker 1: a reaction, there's always a reason for that reaction. Always.
13:58
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean say something that in front of your
14:00
Speaker 1: tire team and blow that person spot up. That's not
14:03
Speaker 1: going to go very well. Maybe if you're dealing with
14:05
Speaker 1: it one on one and you're explaining the context around
14:08
Speaker 1: your decisions and that you would like that person to
14:10
Speaker 1: support you, it can turn into a really amazing conversation
14:15
Speaker 1: with a lot of key learnings. Maybe that person didn't
14:17
Speaker 1: even know they were doing that to you. They may
14:22
Speaker 1: not know. It could have been such an automatic reaction
14:25
Speaker 1: and I take a step back to like, oh, that
14:27
Speaker 1: is not a good look, or someone may not like
14:30
Speaker 1: it at all, and basically go you want to go
14:33
Speaker 1: toe to toe, I'll show you what it's like to
14:34
Speaker 1: go toe to toe. But then we remember people have
14:38
Speaker 1: a tendency to quit managers, not companies.
14:41
Speaker 3: So when you say that, what does that mean?
14:43
Speaker 1: What that means is if you have the luxury of
14:45
Speaker 1: looking for a new job, because not everybody has that
14:48
Speaker 1: luxury where you might have all these reasons that you
14:51
Speaker 1: have to stay at an organization, even some of which
14:53
Speaker 1: you don't like. But if you have the luxury of
14:56
Speaker 1: looking for a new job and you can't even feel
14:59
Speaker 1: like you can say something like this in an organization,
15:03
Speaker 1: or that your manager will come for you you need
15:07
Speaker 1: to have a very honest conversation with yourself of does
15:10
Speaker 1: this company actually care about my sanity? Do they care
15:14
Speaker 1: about my mental health? Why do I feel afraid to
15:17
Speaker 1: say something like this or do these very reasonable things
15:21
Speaker 1: that many companies are doing. I just got quoted in
15:25
Speaker 1: a CNBC article today about how LinkedIn is doing the
15:28
Speaker 1: lift up initiative all around these sorts of things to
15:32
Speaker 1: prioritize employee happiness. And if you're at an organization that's
15:37
Speaker 1: like ads, buns and a bunch of nonsense, you really
15:40
Speaker 1: want to keep putting in fifty hours a week there,
15:43
Speaker 1: you really think it's going to change.
15:49
Speaker 2: Taking a break from today's episode to give some love
15:52
Speaker 2: to my sponsors. First up, Green Chefs. Green Chef is
15:57
Speaker 2: a CCOF certified meal care company that makes eating well
16:02
Speaker 2: easy with plants to fit every lifestyle. You can enjoy
16:06
Speaker 2: your greens with Green Chef while being green, which is
16:09
Speaker 2: something that I absolutely love about it. It is the
16:13
Speaker 2: most sustainable meal kit, offsetting one hundred percent one hundred
16:18
Speaker 2: percent of their plastic packaging in every box and one
16:22
Speaker 2: hundred percent of their carbon footprint and emissions. Now, if
16:26
Speaker 2: that is not enough of a self for you. Then
16:28
Speaker 2: the fact that it is absolutely delicious should help. Green
16:33
Speaker 2: Chef offers thirty five nutritious and flavorful options to choose
16:36
Speaker 2: from every single week, featuring premium, clean ingredients that.
16:41
Speaker 3: Are seasonally sourced for peak freshness.
16:44
Speaker 2: Just last week I made steak with balsamic mushrooms salmon
16:48
Speaker 2: with chive green sauce and this one surprised me. Noodliss beef,
16:52
Speaker 2: lasagna skillet and head mushrooms, zucchini, mutzarel and parmesan. It
16:57
Speaker 2: was delicious and aside from the fact that all their
17:01
Speaker 2: ingredients are super fresh, they are also pre portioned, which
17:05
Speaker 2: makes making these meals at the end of a long
17:08
Speaker 2: day and absolute breeds. Not to mention having all of
17:12
Speaker 2: these ingredients ready for me when I am ready to
17:15
Speaker 2: use them. It makes meal planning so much easier Now.
17:20
Speaker 2: Of course, I have a deal to offer the Hurdle listeners.
17:24
Speaker 3: Head on over to green.
17:25
Speaker 2: Chef dot com slash Hurdle one three zero and use
17:29
Speaker 2: the code Hurdle one three zero to get one hundred
17:31
Speaker 2: and thirty dollars off plus free shipping. Again, that is
17:34
Speaker 2: green chef dot com slash Hurdle one thirty use code
17:38
Speaker 2: hurdle one thirty to get one hundred and thirty dollars
17:41
Speaker 2: off plus free shipping. Also want to give some love
17:46
Speaker 2: to my friends at inside Tracker. Through inside Trackers patented
17:50
Speaker 2: analysis of your blood, DMA and lifestyle, they create a
17:54
Speaker 2: one of a kind, science backed action plan to help
17:57
Speaker 2: you reach your potential for better than ever performing and
18:00
Speaker 2: a longer, healthier life. I'm about to do for another
18:04
Speaker 2: ultimate test myself, but what I love about inside Tracker
18:07
Speaker 2: is how easy and accessible they make it to learn
18:10
Speaker 2: about your own body and what's really going on. I
18:14
Speaker 2: literally did a mobile blood draw from the comfort of
18:16
Speaker 2: my apartment, and then my results in all of my
18:20
Speaker 2: information was uploaded into the easy to use portal via
18:24
Speaker 2: their app, and I received customized recommendations of how I
18:30
Speaker 2: could adapt and tweak my diet to continue on my
18:33
Speaker 2: journey to those.
18:34
Speaker 3: Ultimate performance wins.
18:36
Speaker 2: Find out what's going on with you and your body
18:39
Speaker 2: today by getting in on inside Tracker for yourself.
18:43
Speaker 3: Head on over to inside tracker.
18:45
Speaker 2: Dot com slash hurdle again that is inside tracker dot
18:49
Speaker 2: com slash hurdle and get twenty percent off the entire
18:53
Speaker 2: store today. Again that is inside tracker dot com.
18:57
Speaker 3: Slash hurdle.
19:06
Speaker 2: It's super interesting as well because of this point, right,
19:09
Speaker 2: because of the fact that not everybody has the luxury to,
19:12
Speaker 2: you know, continuously hop from point A to point B.
19:15
Speaker 2: But I do think that it's a really valuable question
19:17
Speaker 2: to ask and something to consider, even if you may
19:20
Speaker 2: not be able to make this hop right now, thinking
19:23
Speaker 2: going forward about what you want to prioritize within a
19:27
Speaker 2: company culture as you seek for your next opportunity. Again,
19:31
Speaker 2: not saying that right now you're feeling like you are
19:35
Speaker 2: experiencing well being shaming at your office place, so tomorrow
19:38
Speaker 2: you're going to walk in and be like, f this,
19:41
Speaker 2: I'm out. No, I'm not saying do that, but you
19:44
Speaker 2: can take these experiences to inform how you operate going forward.
19:50
Speaker 1: Exactly. You took the words right out of my mouth
19:53
Speaker 1: that I would never encourage anyone to be reactive. That
19:57
Speaker 1: is literally the antithesis of what I'm going for. When
20:01
Speaker 1: you have these experiences, the first thing you have to
20:03
Speaker 1: do is have a little sit down with yourself and say,
20:08
Speaker 1: why am I feeling like this? What's happening in my
20:11
Speaker 1: surrounding environment, whether that's in an office or virtually how
20:15
Speaker 1: much of this is my stuff? How much of it
20:17
Speaker 1: is not my stuff? Do I think that this is
20:21
Speaker 1: something I can change with my manager? Do I think
20:23
Speaker 1: this is a cultural change? It's possible in the company?
20:26
Speaker 1: Is there buy in from the right people to do so?
20:30
Speaker 1: You have to have these moments with yourself where you
20:33
Speaker 1: reflect and you ask these questions before you do something impulsive.
20:38
Speaker 1: I never recommend doing something impulsive, but these interactions or
20:44
Speaker 1: moments where you can learn is this the right place
20:47
Speaker 1: for me? And then you want to make a data
20:49
Speaker 1: informed decision whether or not it.
20:51
Speaker 3: Is two other things to touch on.
20:54
Speaker 2: The first thing to touch on beyond perhaps like the
20:58
Speaker 2: it must be nice kinds of I have heard from
21:02
Speaker 2: many of my listeners that they deal with coworkers or
21:06
Speaker 2: people in their office environment who you know, feel some
21:10
Speaker 2: kind of way that they may just be active in general.
21:13
Speaker 2: So let's talk about someone who like always comes into
21:17
Speaker 2: the office after a workout, or someone who is leaving
21:21
Speaker 2: the office to go to a workout, or someone who's
21:24
Speaker 2: lead like you know, there's so many different situations, but
21:27
Speaker 2: this person experiences what seems to be like their coworkers
21:30
Speaker 2: kind of giving them crab Yes, being an active person. Again,
21:35
Speaker 2: you and I know that this is obviously them probably
21:38
Speaker 2: projecting a little bit about the fact that maybe they
21:40
Speaker 2: are not as active, But how would you even recommend
21:44
Speaker 2: someone to navigate that kind of discomfort when it comes
21:47
Speaker 2: to their relationships with their coworkers.
21:51
Speaker 1: There's so many reasons that people say stuff like that,
21:55
Speaker 1: and this episode is not long enough to cover all
21:59
Speaker 1: of that. Very true, but when it's really interesting because
22:05
Speaker 1: when people develop a consistent discipline or practice in relation
22:11
Speaker 1: to their well being, whether that's emotional or physical, it
22:16
Speaker 1: either inspires people or it pisses them off because there's
22:22
Speaker 1: so many feelings behind that, in terms of being triggered
22:26
Speaker 1: or feeling jealousy, or feeling intimidated, or feeling insecure. There's
22:32
Speaker 1: lots of different synonyms about why people feel that way.
22:36
Speaker 1: So if you are one of those people who is
22:38
Speaker 1: so disciplined that they're able to, you know, come to
22:42
Speaker 1: the office after a run or to a Zoom meeting
22:44
Speaker 1: before or after a run, and people say something ridiculous
22:49
Speaker 1: around like oh, you're always doing that, or you know,
22:52
Speaker 1: how are the rest of us supposed to keep up,
22:53
Speaker 1: or something that is clearly not benevolently intended, you have
22:59
Speaker 1: to expect the context, what's the intention? Why do you
23:05
Speaker 1: give a bleep? Why are you doing it? It doesn't
23:08
Speaker 1: mean share your life story, but if people are saying
23:11
Speaker 1: it enough, it's I do this consistently because it makes
23:16
Speaker 1: me feel good. And I can't control much of what's
23:19
Speaker 1: going on out there. What I can control is trying
23:21
Speaker 1: to take care of my body and my mind. So
23:24
Speaker 1: I make sure I do this every day because I
23:28
Speaker 1: there's not much I can control in this world, but
23:30
Speaker 1: I can control that and it makes me feel good.
23:33
Speaker 1: It's really that simple. You're not being defensive. You're not
23:36
Speaker 1: attacking someone for saying what they're saying. You're just informing
23:40
Speaker 1: them about your why. Be very connected to your why
23:44
Speaker 1: because you can explain things to people without feeling or
23:48
Speaker 1: coming off as defensive, just informative. That's what I always
23:52
Speaker 1: recommend because anyone who usually gets defensive is not exactly
23:55
Speaker 1: a recipe for a great conversation.
23:57
Speaker 2: And I think bringing it kind of full circle into
24:00
Speaker 2: the workplace by saying it also helps me show up here.
24:05
Speaker 2: That is something when it comes to our mental health
24:07
Speaker 2: and taking care of our overall well being that is
24:11
Speaker 2: such a critical piece to the puzzle. It's not just
24:14
Speaker 2: about the importance of making time for that activity, but
24:17
Speaker 2: then extending that benefit from the activity from the time
24:22
Speaker 2: that you are enduring it, that you are sweating, that
24:24
Speaker 2: you are going through it, or from the time that
24:27
Speaker 2: you are speaking with your therapist or your life coach.
24:30
Speaker 2: Reaping those benefits and the other aspects of your life
24:33
Speaker 2: is monumental.
24:36
Speaker 1: Extremely and I can't remember what I was reading. It
24:40
Speaker 1: was in recent months where the very non scientific, simplified
24:46
Speaker 1: version of what this article said is basically that having
24:50
Speaker 1: some form of physical movement keeps your brain juices flowing.
24:55
Speaker 1: That's basically the simple version is that by keeping yourself
24:59
Speaker 1: moving that you're literally removing the gunk of the machine
25:05
Speaker 1: that is your brain, keeps the juices flowing. And so,
25:08
Speaker 1: for example, my main thing that is a little difficult
25:12
Speaker 1: to do with the pandemic because it's not as safe unfortunately,
25:15
Speaker 1: is salsa dancing. Salsa dancing is my jam, a little
25:21
Speaker 1: tough to do in a pandemic, but the thing is
25:24
Speaker 1: it has the same benefits to me as having meditated
25:27
Speaker 1: for two hours. It's incredible and to be able to
25:32
Speaker 1: prioritize that and now I have to do it differently.
25:34
Speaker 1: I have hardwood floor as a mostly willing husband and
25:37
Speaker 1: salsa music. So we kind of make it weak, but
25:40
Speaker 1: it really it just keeps things moving. Moving is life,
25:45
Speaker 1: Moving is thinking, Moving is innovation, Moving is being human.
25:52
Speaker 1: And so I think developing that practice is so deeply personal.
25:55
Speaker 2: And then the other thing that I want to double
25:57
Speaker 2: click on would be you're Perhaps the best practice is
26:00
Speaker 2: for someone to set these smart boundaries around some of
26:04
Speaker 2: their health and well being practices that they want to
26:07
Speaker 2: make a priority in addition to their work. So I,
26:12
Speaker 2: over the pandemic have talked to so many individuals who
26:15
Speaker 2: will say something like, I've blocked off from one to
26:19
Speaker 2: two thirty PM on my calendar as focus time. Thank
26:22
Speaker 2: you Apple for that new term that we'll always thinks
26:25
Speaker 2: so regularly, but something like that, Would you recommend calendar blocks?
26:29
Speaker 2: Would you recommend again, maybe appropriate communication? Where does someone
26:33
Speaker 2: begin with wanting to make these boundaries when it comes
26:36
Speaker 2: to their well being and work?
26:38
Speaker 1: The good news is I have a specifically created concept
26:42
Speaker 1: for such a thing.
26:43
Speaker 3: Ahh.
26:44
Speaker 1: So the reason I love talking about this is not
26:48
Speaker 1: because I created it, but because people tell me it works. Truly.
26:52
Speaker 1: It's called the mental wellbeing non negotiables So what that
26:56
Speaker 1: is is you coming up with certain things that you
27:01
Speaker 1: do no matter what, barring death, dismemberment, hell, high water,
27:06
Speaker 1: or illness, and I am not joking, that help you
27:10
Speaker 1: manage and prioritize your mental health. So the good news
27:14
Speaker 1: is you get to choose what that is and what
27:16
Speaker 1: feels right for you. And you want to think about
27:19
Speaker 1: the paradox of choice. Don't say I'm going to do
27:21
Speaker 1: these ten things, because then you're not going to do
27:23
Speaker 1: any of them. You'll just freeze with paralysis by analysis.
27:26
Speaker 1: Start small, three to five or less. And so if
27:30
Speaker 1: that means making sure that you block off that time
27:33
Speaker 1: chunk so you can actually go for a walk or
27:36
Speaker 1: dare I say, small flowers or go look at trees
27:39
Speaker 1: or whatever that is, that's what that means for you.
27:42
Speaker 1: If that means going for a run ten minutes a day,
27:46
Speaker 1: that's what that means for you. If it means dancing
27:49
Speaker 1: to abba in your underwear in the living room with
27:52
Speaker 1: your kids, that's what that means to you. Whatever that means,
27:57
Speaker 1: stick to it no matter what. And you can't say
28:01
Speaker 1: I don't have the time. You have to make the time.
28:05
Speaker 1: You must make the time. If President Obama can find
28:09
Speaker 1: time to go for a run every day, what is
28:11
Speaker 1: your excuse? Seriously, you got to find the minuits minutes
28:16
Speaker 1: where you can, and no one is going to take
28:19
Speaker 1: charge of that for you except for you. So come
28:23
Speaker 1: up with your mental wellbeing non negotiables, Start small and
28:27
Speaker 1: stick to them, except in the cases that I mentioned.
28:30
Speaker 1: Because a little, it's a really great Tanzanian proverb. Little
28:34
Speaker 1: by little, a little becomes a lot.
28:38
Speaker 2: And I think that here something that's really valuable is
28:41
Speaker 2: this idea of prioritization and the concept of believing that
28:48
Speaker 2: you are worthy of this time. Right. So often we
28:52
Speaker 2: are so good at making sacrifices when others are directly involved.
28:59
Speaker 3: In the equation.
29:00
Speaker 2: But when you take a step back and you ask
29:03
Speaker 2: yourself if by doing this, will I actually be better
29:07
Speaker 2: for others in the process, one hundred percent of the time,
29:10
Speaker 2: the answer to that question is yes. So recognizing that yes,
29:15
Speaker 2: I am worthy of my own energy, I am worthy
29:18
Speaker 2: of my own investment, let's see what happens from here.
29:21
Speaker 2: Once I make a conscious effort to give myself this
29:25
Speaker 2: time to make me better and to then better show up.
29:29
Speaker 1: I completely agree. I remember distinctly it was one of
29:33
Speaker 1: the last talks I did in London before you know,
29:36
Speaker 1: the World show Down, and when we moved back to
29:38
Speaker 1: the States. It was a group of probably about two
29:40
Speaker 1: hundred people, and this wonderful woman stood up and asked
29:45
Speaker 1: a question, and she said, all of this sounds so great,
29:49
Speaker 1: but I honestly feel really selfish by doing any of it,
29:52
Speaker 1: because I have a son who we went through six
29:57
Speaker 1: rounds of failed IVF to get and I feel like
30:00
Speaker 1: I'm being very selfish and not being there for him
30:03
Speaker 1: if I'm taking this time. And started crying and I said,
30:08
Speaker 1: I appreciate your honesty, and I have a sneaking suspicion
30:12
Speaker 1: that your son would want you to do things to
30:15
Speaker 1: make you feel good so you can show up for
30:17
Speaker 1: him as his mom. And you got to take this
30:21
Speaker 1: time because parenting is a marathon. It's going to be
30:24
Speaker 1: a long time. And I know from how you speak
30:28
Speaker 1: about it that you love him and he loves you.
30:31
Speaker 1: And I am confident that, let's say, when he grows up,
30:33
Speaker 1: he's twenty five years old, he's going to look back
30:36
Speaker 1: and be appreciative that you took the time for yourself
30:39
Speaker 1: so you could be a better mom to him, not
30:41
Speaker 1: the other way around, and the look of relief in
30:44
Speaker 1: her face and as her shoulders dropped, I said, Okay,
30:46
Speaker 1: I got one. I got one, and I don't care
30:50
Speaker 1: if anybody else doesn't believe me in this audience. I
30:52
Speaker 1: got one.
30:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I trust me.
30:56
Speaker 2: I've been there to anyone listening to this, like I
30:59
Speaker 2: have certainly been in moments in my life where I
31:02
Speaker 2: can relate with that woman where that self care does
31:06
Speaker 2: feel really selfish. But in exercising this muscle, because it
31:11
Speaker 2: is like a muscle, right, the more that you take
31:15
Speaker 2: the time to figure out what it is that you
31:18
Speaker 2: need and actually take care of your physical, your mental,
31:22
Speaker 2: your emotional, your financial, your sexual, all of your health.
31:26
Speaker 2: The more that you work on these muscles, the more
31:29
Speaker 2: comfortable and strong that you become in that process.
31:33
Speaker 1: That's completely true, and oftentimes we're not exactly taught to
31:37
Speaker 1: do that in our formative years, and you can't expect
31:40
Speaker 1: it from your primary caregivers if they didn't learn it either.
31:43
Speaker 1: It's a bit of the blind leading the blond. So
31:46
Speaker 1: you have to learn these practices as you get older,
31:49
Speaker 1: because if you don't, and all of these things are
31:52
Speaker 1: kind of deprioritized, you'll just go pop towards people you
31:56
Speaker 1: don't want to at moments when you don't want to do.
31:58
Speaker 2: It before I let you go to Is there anything
32:01
Speaker 2: else that we should touch on when it comes to
32:05
Speaker 2: just exercising your overall well being in the workplace, making
32:08
Speaker 2: sure that you're taking care of you, any tips or
32:10
Speaker 2: tricks that we haven't touched on just yet.
32:13
Speaker 1: Honestly, it's really the main question I want people to
32:17
Speaker 1: ask themselves is there is no going back to how
32:22
Speaker 1: things work, there's only going forward. We're still figuring out
32:25
Speaker 1: what the sext chapter is going to look like, and
32:28
Speaker 1: I would highly encourage you to ask yourself, can I
32:33
Speaker 1: afford to not prioritize this? Can I afford to work
32:37
Speaker 1: at a company that doesn't prioritize this? And based on
32:41
Speaker 1: those answers, you'll decide what to do next.
32:45
Speaker 2: I love that a little bit of personal inventory, personal
32:49
Speaker 2: inquiry to figure out what it is that's going on
32:52
Speaker 2: and what you want to happen going forward. Melissa, this
32:56
Speaker 2: is so great. I'm so glad that we were able
32:57
Speaker 2: to connect for the show. How to the herd keep
33:00
Speaker 2: up with you? How do they follow along with you?
33:02
Speaker 2: Give us all of your information?
33:04
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, for having me. So if you'd
33:06
Speaker 1: like to connect, if you would like a sweet swift
33:09
Speaker 1: kick in the ass at your company about why and
33:12
Speaker 1: how to talk about mental health at work, you can
33:14
Speaker 1: reach me at Melissadoman dot com. You can add me
33:18
Speaker 1: on LinkedIn. My Instagram handle is at the Wandering mel
33:24
Speaker 1: and on Twitter, I'm at Melissa Doman, LLC. Don't be shy,
33:29
Speaker 1: get in touch and I would be very happy to help.
33:32
Speaker 1: And if you would like the simple to understand and
33:36
Speaker 1: easy to use, how to guide and how to have
33:38
Speaker 1: these conversations that work and do them really well. My
33:42
Speaker 1: book is called Yes you can talk about Mental health
33:44
Speaker 1: at work. Here's why and how to do it really well.
33:47
Speaker 3: We love it.
33:48
Speaker 2: I'm over at Emily a Body and at Hurdle Podcast
33:51
Speaker 2: Another Hurdle Conquered.
33:53
Speaker 3: Catch you guys next time.