Latest / Storied Account with Jen Jumba / Elena Imbimbo: Splendor for Nothing
Transcript
- Jennifer Jumba: This is Story to Count with Jen Jumba. In conversations with writers, something magical happens. And as readers, we begin to see them as human beings and not just the name on the spine of a book. And my hope is through these conversations, you learn about their craft and them as a person, you'll become like me, fiercely loyal and want to read their current book, entire backlist, any future book or any book they blurb. And when you see their name, you'll want to support them, not only as incredible storytellers, but also the thoughtful individuals you have come to know. So I'm super excited today because I have a debut writer. Her name is Elena Mbimbo. is a researcher and analyst working in conflict prevention and resolution. After some time spent in the media and editorial sectors, she developed extensive experience in the fields of international relations and conflict analysis while also cultivating a strong passion for emergency management. She serves as a co-executive director of a local community response team or CERT. team supporting emergency services and community preparedness initiatives. need more of you. Elena was born and grew up in Italy. She now lives with her husband and children in the U.S. Splendor Nothing is her debut mystery novel in the Alice Carta series. That makes so happy after we talk about this book Splendor for Nothing to know that the series is going to continue. So if you're like me as a reader, you will be hooked. So would you introduce us to your main character, Elyte? Elena: Thank you so much, Jennifer. a pleasure to be here. I'm really honored. So ⁓ Alice she is ⁓ an She is from Italy, just like me. She ⁓ is fierce But she had a very difficult life. She had a lot of losses in her life. And I think you can see that the story. She a really strong moral compass. Sometimes you want to tell her, it's OK. It's OK to break the rules a little bit. But she loves travel, I think her work. allows her to travel a lot around the world you sometimes feel like she's traveling so much because she doesn't want to put roots anywhere. And sometimes you really, you know, wish that she could. And maybe she did in the past, but it didn't go so well. So that's why now she's just, she can't stop. Jennifer Jumba: you make a great point when we learn early on, this is a mystery, so we'll be careful to avoid spoilers. But we learn on about her loss. when she was four, her mom just left. When she was eight, her dad passed away in a car accident and she was raised by her uncle. Now her uncle's wisdom is infused throughout this book, which is really fantastic. that she comes up against a situation and she can still hear her uncle telling her like, make sure you do this or make sure you do that. So That's really fun to see that in an essence that somewhat grounds her. But to your point, yeah, she travels a lot and maybe because she experienced so much loss, including the loss of her husband, that it is hard to put down roots. And also at the same time, world is so big and there are so many amazing places to see. So it kind of works for her. Yeah, ⁓ what made you decide to write about an archaeologist? Elena: Yes, absolutely. That's a great question. I love archaeology. I've loved archaeology since I was in elementary school, I think. used to spend a lot of nights, I have to say. I little. I mean, I was probably fourth grade, ⁓ third, grade. I would have all these archaeology books that I would get for Christmas. I'm serious. I this is crazy. And I still have them. And I just spend evenings with the light, little light in the kitchen, reading about all crazy archaeologists in years earlier who traveled to these distant places and discovered things. was just so exciting to me and I really wanted to be an archeologist when I grew up. I up actually choosing high school would have allowed me to do that because I studied Greek and ancient Greek and ancient Latin. Latin I should say, Jennifer Jumba: So if anybody knows ruins besides Italians, Elena: Yeah, well, it's, you know, it's, where it all comes so comes from. So it's for me. I really loved everything that had to do with ancient civilization. So I really thought I was going to be an archaeologist. think by the time I finished high school, five years of ancient Greece, Greek and Latin, think I couldn't take it anymore. I didn't to see anymore, you know. Greek or Latin dictionaries. So I think at that point I was ready to make a change. And so I just, I thought, well, maybe I won't be an archaeologist after all. But I still love archaeology. And I think when I sat down and I had to decide who my... main character is going to be, well I knew it was going to be a woman and I thought well of course she's going to be an archaeologist if I can now be one ⁓ Alicia would be what can now be so I think that's that's where it's coming from. Jennifer Jumba: You think it's very fun. And I was struck by the fact that she's an archaeologist. And I've been fortunate enough to travel a lot, and went to Morocco last year and was fascinated with the Roman ruins there and how thoughtfully constructed everything was so that this ran off here, this was protected by the sun here. And, and not just on a small scale, but on this big epic scale, it literally takes your breath away. And so you bring that to this book with Elena: Yeah. Jennifer Jumba: Aliche and her profession as an archaeologist. And I think at one point she even says as an archaeologist, it's to bring the forgotten back to life. Elena: Yes, absolutely. And I think that's something I actually feel very strongly about. I feel like the past is so important for all of us to understand so that we can look at the future and actually build the future. And I say this to my children so much all the time, so much they can't hear it anymore, because really you need to look at the past to understand where you're going, not only where you are, but also where you're going as a, you know, civilization. So I I love that about Alice because I love that for me also in my life. I want to look at the past, history teaches us so much. And I don't think we learn enough from it these days anyway. Jennifer Jumba: I think you're right, or I think the time at which we're impressed upon to learn these things, we're young and we don't have that life experience yet to truly appreciate what we're seeing and how thoughtfully it was designed or constructed and held up to, and hundreds of years later. So I'm so glad she, Aliche, is such, as you said, a fierce character. She is a strong female. She has a strong sense of self, which I absolutely love. The other thing I liked about her is that when she travels, and this is so smart, this is like a travel tip, that she always befriends the concierge because they kind of know the ins and outs of where she's staying. Like this is where you want to go. This is where you don't want to go. wouldn't wait in line here, but if you go at this time, there's no, and so I think, wow, how thoughtful to make sure that if you're in a city or, for a small period of time or short period of time, you can take advantage of the things that, need to be seen. Elena: Yeah. you Absolutely, and I think that comes a little bit from my experience. think my traveling has taught me a little bit of... ⁓ do try to learn who the trusting people are, right? The you can trust and the you can't trust. And sometimes it's instinct, but sometimes there are certain people like the concierge and it's useful. It's a useful person know. Jennifer Jumba: Mm-hmm. Right. Absolutely. You also bring up a good point. I think, you know, from your experience, you know, traveling the world is that Alicia says she every country she traveled allowed her to experiment and taste all kinds of sweet or bitter liquid that could fit in a cup. And I just think what a wonderful life. And that's the best way. mean, a lot of us travel, you know, to learn. Elena: Yes. Jennifer Jumba: experience different food, different culture, to see different pieces of artwork or architecture. We can't forget food and drink that is so inherent to particular places. So think ⁓ that's that she goes out and it's like, all right, whatever you can fit in this cup, that's part of this, I need to have it. And sometimes you're pleasantly surprised and other times you're, I think stick to something else. Not so much. Elena: Yes. so much. Yes. And think, you know, food and coffee especially such a big part of the book. it's the funny thing about that is, I mean, I did the coffee part on purpose. I knew coffee had to be a big part of it because it is such a big part of my culture and of my life. In the world, I have tried different coffees and I ⁓ always back to my Italian coffee, have to be honest, but I do like. ⁓ Jennifer Jumba: was gonna ask if you had a favorite. Yeah. Elena: You know, I actually recently, not because I was there, but I was in a Vietnamese restaurant and I tried Vietnamese coffee. I absolutely love it, it. And very traditionally. I was like, ⁓ wow, this is the first time in a long time that I can say, well, I can actually have that instead of my Italian espresso. But food, I... did not that intentionally. I didn't set up to, you know, I didn't think, oh, I'm going to put food everywhere in the book, but it just happened. And by the end, when I was rereading it, I was like, oh my gosh, Alici is eating everywhere, wherever she is, or, you know, but she's always sitting at the table eating. And I feel like... there is also a connection between the food that she eats and the emotional state she's in, or even the emotional state the other people are So think it this food also is such a big part of my culture and my life, I think had to be, I wasn't surprised the end that that's how it turned out. Jennifer Jumba: No, and I'm glad that you infused the book with that because a lot of times we'll read, mysteries or thrillers and like the character, like, do they never shower? they don't? Aren't they ever hungry? Aren't they ever thirsty? Right. So what you what you did with those pieces in the book is it allowed us to kind of slow down as readers and kind of process everything that she had just experienced, because this book takes place over a short period of time. And there's a lot of things coming at her. I mean, the opening scene is Elena: You Yes. Jennifer Jumba: she's uncovering this Roman villa. And because there's a new mayor, he's like, halt, we gotta stop uncovering things. And so like, okay, fine. So I guess I have to go home. She goes home. ⁓ receives a piece of mail from somebody that she went to school with. She's known for the past 30 years and like a lot of friends that we have at an early age, sometimes we fall out of touch, but you pick up right where you left off. And learned his wife tragically killed. And so... ⁓ Elena: Yes. Jennifer Jumba: he asked her to come to the funeral. that's just start a series of events and having the opportunity for her to have a coffee or have a tea or sit and eat something allows us to kind of process a little bit along with her and really empathize. ⁓ Yeah, so I think that's a nice gesture. ⁓ Elena: Yes. Absolutely. And take a breather, you know, in all the and chaotic situations she finds herself in. You sometimes you really have to take a step back and just stop, right? And that's what she does when she's eating and she's taking a break, basically, from the chaos. ⁓ ⁓ you can't. Yeah. Jennifer Jumba: Well, you have to, because you can't keep running at that level and you can't keep operating at that level. It's very stressful. And at the same time, you might make mistakes because you're, you're fatigued or you're hungry or, know, you're just emotionally wrecked. can you talk a little bit about Henry, her friend from school? Elena: trained. Yeah, you funny because I a hard time at the beginning because I sure I had somebody in mind in my life but I wasn't sure I wanted to sort of you know get take too much from that person I knew so I tried to make Harry a different person but it wasn't working out very well so I ended up going back to original Henry. He is such a Jennifer Jumba: Mm-hmm. Elena: character in my mind. To these days I'm not sure if his, you know, how much of goodness there is in him, how much of badness there is. ⁓ So a very complicated man. I love the fact ⁓ that they remain friends. As you said, as you mentioned earlier, it's so hard to keep a friendship for a very long time. And especially if you don't live in the same place, right? Especially if you move away, far away, and there is no time to meet or to talk. And so I actually wanted to show that it is possible. Because I think also that I took a little bit from my own life and experience because I moved away Jennifer Jumba: Mm-hmm. Elena: Italy a long time ago. I have actually just realized recently that I lived abroad more than I lived in Italy, which a it's a thing to experience when you realize that. But I have at least two friendships from high school. all these years. It takes some efforts, obviously, but I think if it's a real friendship, will happen. The effort going to be effortless because it's just a real friendship. And I wanted to give them, Alice and this type of relationship that it can still be there even if you don't see each other for years and you lose touch. But I wanted for Alice to sort of doubt, ⁓ you have I not been a good friend because I been in touch, because I've, you know, traveled the world and done all this wonderful, had all these experiences, but did that affect my friendship and could I have done something to help him earlier? So I wanted that for their relationship. Jennifer Jumba: I think that's something we can all relate to because there are people that, we lose touch with. and, know, sometimes you're able to pick up right where you left, but sometimes it's because of something tragic that happens. And you do question yourself and think, man, I should have all those times I should have picked up the phone or texted or reached out. so I think it will make people pause a little bit and I'm sure people are going to reach out to people that they haven't talked to in a while Elena: Yes. Yeah. really hope so. I really hope so because it actually made me do that with someone. It me think about it. ⁓ so though, you I have already experienced it, of the why I write is I hope to make people think different. things in their lives, that maybe they don't normally think about ⁓ they have forgotten about. And so ⁓ really do. And I think every reader is different. And so every reader is going to, I hope that's my hope, will pick up something that resonates with them. And then they will go and as you say, pick up the phone and call someone they haven't heard in 20 years. Wouldn't that be wonderful to receive that phone call? Like, would love that. ⁓ ⁓ Jennifer Jumba: Absolutely. Yes. Right. Absolutely. I agree. I think it's great. And I think when you're writing a book, the book is so much And it's published. And then it becomes something else because we all bring our own life experience to the book that we're reading. And so I just think it makes it even that much more special. So that when you talk to readers, when you're at your events and at your signings, Elena: Yeah. Jennifer Jumba: and readers are coming up to you and saying, Hey, ⁓ my goodness, I was in London and I went to La Maison, ⁓ which talk about in a second, or ⁓ was traveling and I did try some liquid, whether it sweet or bitter that could fit into a cup just because Alice does it. So, ⁓ you know, opening up ⁓ and kind of stepping outside of your comfort a little bit, I is really a terrific thing that you're able to gift us as readers. Elena: you If I can do that, I'd be the happiest writer in the world. I just love when readers tell me things like that. And I love hearing from readers, not what they think about the book, but exactly what you just said. know, whatever relate to, know, did that change your perspective on something? Did it make you do something you haven't never done before? ⁓ You know, so it's, yeah, absolutely. That's the best part for me of giving, because writing a book is such a Jennifer Jumba: Right. Elena: It's such a personal thing. You're writing and there is so much of you in it and then you give it to the world and it's gone. when hear readers telling me stories or even just one word about the book, it just makes me so happy because it's like a piece of it is coming back to me. So for me, it's magic. really, really Jennifer Jumba: if it helps when ⁓ read that line about, wherever she traveled, she would sample something bitter or sweet of liquid that fit in a cup. ⁓ It made think about the places I've traveled to and the things that I've done and sipped out of cups. Like in Morocco, there's the whole Moroccan tea ceremony and so it just, ⁓ brings back really good And even most recently on my last trip, rowing and then you you wet dock and then you go up in the little town and you have a cappuccino and then you get back and you row like it brings back memories as well we talk a bit about Philip and you know how Aliche finds herself kind of entangled also with the ⁓ Elena: You Jennifer Jumba: the chief inspector, Laura Clark from Scotland Yard. mean, you're archaeologist, you're digging for things that's kind of put on hold. You go back to sea and help a friend whose, wife passes away. Next thing you know, you're entangled with Scotland Yard. So ⁓ we talk a bit about, Scotland Yard ⁓ Elena: Yeah, ⁓ sure. Yeah, I mean, I had to think of a character that was in law enforcement, initially it was actually a man. Laura was a man and quite soon after I started writing about him. it became a woman. I just, think after a couple of pages like this, this can not be a man, has to be a woman. So when I started developing her, I wanted her to be different from Aletia, I didn't want her to be the same type of person. So I, you know, I really, I think I was thinking about women that I had read in Agatha Christie's books. And a lot of the time, I mean, obviously the most famous woman is Miss for when she's an older lady and definitely not in law enforcement but everybody in law enforcement in Agatha Christie's books are men. So I was trying to think what if one of those men is actually a woman. there is an inspector, chief inspector in one of the Agatha Christie's, in a lot of Agatha Christie's books that who helps Poirot. And I love his character. He's great. And I was thinking about him as woman. So, ⁓ I to do, and I didn't want to do the same character, but I tried to think what if, what was his Just by saying Josh, I can't remember right now, but what if he's a and Jennifer Jumba: You Elena: from there I developed her and I wanted her to be strong but also very vulnerable. The same for a literature, I didn't want them just to be strong because nobody is just strong, obviously. I wanted her to be, to have a life also. when I and I wanted her to I didn't want her to end up being friends with the Licha. I didn't want to give I don't want to give any spoiler I think you know at a certain point you you try to make decisions about where your characters go but there is nothing you can do your characters will do what they want so at certain point ⁓ I like well that's what Laura wants so hands off you know that'll do what she wants ⁓ so know I'm not gonna say anything but I think the story of Laura of the relationship between Alisha and Laura sort of developed in a way that I didn't I hadn't planned it that way not that I planned much but know it's sort of yeah I sort of ended up being I think the way the way it was supposed to be and ⁓ you know I when I decided to ⁓ Philip in the midst and I wanted It was pretty clear to me that Philip had to know Laura. Actually, sorry, actually it's a spoiler, but it's not a big spoiler. I think I wanted their relationship to be a little bit chaotic, not linear, you know? And so I had to put... Jennifer Jumba: Right. Elena: something in the midst of the relationship between Nora and Philip. that also the relationship wasn't linear. So I didn't want anything too easy. But I... I think that comes also from my experience where a lot, oftentimes in my life I had friendships that were sort of trio, like three people, they always worked out really well. So I thought, well, why not? Why not make them work together and solve a mystery? Jennifer Jumba: Yeah, and I think it's very interesting because you talk about it not being linear, you give a really great background to connection as colleagues that Laura and Philip had at one point. a parallel in the fact that, know, ⁓ and friends kind of lost touch over the years, so did Philip and Laura for a great reason, you. give a great backstory to it, which tugs at your heartstrings into your point, makes you think, what, what I would have done in that situation, or was that the right decision? Was that the best decision? Oftentimes, I think we make decisions based on the information we have at the time. And then we always can look back and be like, well, if I would have known, but it is certainly a point in the story that makes you stop and think. Elena: Yeah. Yeah. Jennifer Jumba: And so the tension that exists between the three of them, think is wonderfully captured because it's not like, look at us, we're all happy and we're going to solve this. mean, there are moments where don't quite see eye to eye and there are moments where people aren't following direction and instruction. Elena: Well, most of the time, Alicia doesn't follow directions. It's hard for her to follow directions, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Jennifer Jumba: Okay, is very hard and I think is it come from her background because she's so used to being independent. I think she says something at one point that she's not used to having people kind of fuss over her almost to the point where she's abrasive. Like if somebody tries to help her, she's like, go away. ⁓ Elena: Go away. Yeah, absolutely. No, her independence, you mentioned she's independent and I wanted her to be independent, but I wanted to show that her independence comes not from, look at me, I'm independent. It's coming from a very difficult life. And she might have not wanted that independence after all, you know, she just, she had to become independent because she didn't have an upbringing, you know, your regular linear upbringing. so ⁓ sort of told her, you know what, girl, have to independent, you have to rely on yourself. And I think a lot of times I think, I don't like characters that show their independence that's so great and that's it. You need to have a reason why you become like that. And the reason is pretty clear for Alicci. Jennifer Jumba: Yeah, a wonderful gift that stories give us and that writers give us is that insight into their into their life experience that helps us as readers understand a little bit of why they do what they do. ⁓ Whereas like sometimes we don't even have that in real life. I mean, you think about the friends you have and one of your friends does something and it's a friend that you haven't known since you were little and grew up with and you're like, what are you thinking? And then as you Elena: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jennifer Jumba: know, if you're invested and you can have the tough conversations to help understand, they know that makes a difference, but that's something that you gift us readers, that opportunity see inside and ⁓ probably why picked the career she did where she travels. So she has to independent, but it kind of came at a big cost, I think. Elena: Yes and I hope that as you know as we said before I hope that her character and the way she is and showing why she is the way she is gives people pause, the allows people to pause and think exactly what you said. You know, if somebody in my life did something behaving in a certain way and I don't quite understand why she or he behaved that way, you know, maybe you pause and you think, wait, let me see. There must be a reason for it in her history, right? In her background. and as you said, some, you know, most of the time we don't have time, right? To just understand, but that's because we go too fast. Jennifer Jumba: you Elena: and then we don't pause, right? So, I think this like what I'm trying to do with my, all my characters, not just Alicci. ⁓ I love for the reader to... pause for all the characters and understand why they are the they are. Also for the antagonists, not just the main character, not the good guys, also the bad guys. Why are the bad guys behaving that way? And that doesn't mean they were justifying their actions. Absolutely not. We don't justify murder, obviously, ⁓ or bad, right? But any crime, we don't justify that. But my hope is that... Also for the antagonists, not just the main character, not the guys, also the bad guys. Why are the bad guys behaving that way? And that doesn't mean they were justifying their actions. Absolutely not. We don't justify murder, obviously, ⁓ anything bad, right? ⁓ But any crime, we don't justify that. But ⁓ my hope that... Jennifer Jumba: can't know. Right. Right. Elena: when I give the antagonist a backstory, you actually try to understand how that person could get to the point where he or she made the decision to do something so horrible as to murder someone, right? And my hope is that we can do this in real life too. We don't want to just, obviously we don't justify any crime, but when I give the antagonist a backstory, you actually try to understand that person could get to the point where he or she made decision to do something so horrible as to someone, right? And my hope that we can do this in real life too. We don't want to just, obviously we don't justify any crime, but it's one of One of the reasons why we, you know, it's good to be able to look at history, at the background and the experience of a person to be able to prevent the next crime. It's one way to do it. And that's what I hope with my characters, you you pause and you see what is their background. How did they get to that point where they had to commit murder? it's really good to be able to ⁓ look the history, at the background and the of a person to be able to prevent the next crime. It's one way to do it. Jennifer Jumba: Yeah. Right. And I think sometimes I talked to a writer not too long ago who said that ⁓ behavior is typically motivated by two things, either love or fear. And so being able to ⁓ a step into that character's life and understand, okay, this is what they were afraid of, or this is who loved so much that they felt they needed a of justice. Elena: That's so true, yeah. Yeah, and it's a very fine line between justice and revenge. ⁓ And again, none of this is justification for the act murder. But I think when you try to understand how you got there, maybe you can prevent the next one, right? The next murder. Jennifer Jumba: Mm-hmm. Yeah, right. There's an expression we have here that, you know, those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. So I think there's wisdom in what you're saying in terms of being able to look at the past, whether it's, from the archeological digs ⁓ that Aliche doing to understand how a city was built. And can we learn from that? Also the artifacts. And I have to say ⁓ Elena: Yes, it's, it's, yeah. Jennifer Jumba: you you writing about Aliche's visits to the British Museum. Can I just say that I think I sucked all the air out of the room when I was reading those pages, gasping at what is below that is not available for the public to see just yet, whether they're getting ready to curate and for an exhibition. But I was just like, ⁓ my gosh, it was like this treasure trove and all the stories behind all the pieces and the objects. just, I gassed, I think. how special that is and to be able to see that kind of behind the scenes. So have you had a chance to go behind the scenes in any of the museums to kind of inform your writing or research, we'll say? Elena: Yes, and that Yes, yes, not the British Museum itself. I've seen the British Museum many, many times, but not below. I've seen other museums. ⁓ not to mention which one, but one that actually not accessible to many people. And I was there to do some research, not for the book, it was work research. And It's unbelievable the pieces that we will never see. And that is even more true in Italy. We have so many pieces in Italy, in museums in Italy, in basements that you will never see. There were way too many, way too many pieces to display. So they will probably be there forever in a basement. Jennifer Jumba: Yeah. Elena: but that's because there were too many. Jennifer Jumba: Yeah, it makes me wonder, with the technology we have today, if there's a way to photograph some of those things and still preserve the integrity of the object so that people do have a chance to see them. I mean, you might not be able to see it in a ⁓ glass where you have like a 360 view, but to be able to see some of these incredible treasures. Elena: Yeah. I think the problem with, and might disagree with me, but a of museums, and I'm talking about Italy especially, because that's where I the most this happens. Not there is so much, there are so many items, there are so many artifacts, there is not enough, sometimes there's not enough financial, you know. ⁓ there's not enough funds to actually do what you're saying. And so a lot of this, you know, just get forgotten somehow. And it's too but I think it's been like this for a very long time. So I doubt that will change. But yeah, absolutely. think a lot of times ⁓ these pieces are in other museums or, you know, other museums borrow them for exhibitions and then they go back. Jennifer Jumba: All Elena: they use them a lot of often times they use them for exhibitions in locations. Jennifer Jumba: Yeah, I'm pretty lucky. The Cleveland Museum of Art is pretty good and we'll borrow pieces and put together exhibitions and otherwise a lot of people wouldn't have the chance to see it. But now it just makes me think like I think I need to like as a librarian go and be able to look at those objects and catalog them, as part of a volunteer summer, you know, in Italy. Elena: Yeah. That's not a that's not a bad idea absolutely yeah that's not a bad idea okay Jennifer Jumba: Yeah, let them know you have somebody who'd be willing to do that for them. Right. The other thing that's really neat is, Aliche has a background as an archaeologist, and she finds herself somewhat as this amateur salute to try to figure out what happened to her dear friend. And she's very smart. And it makes me think a lot about us in life in terms of transferable skills. Elena: Mm-hmm. Jennifer Jumba: because at one point she says that she uses the methodical scientific approach she uses for a dig to help with this. And I think, yeah, all of us have skills that transfer. And so it goes back to your, can you pause a moment and think if you want to switch careers or do something different? Elena: Absolutely. Yes. I am so happy you said this and you picked it up because that was exactly my goal to have people think you can actually do something else in your life if you wanted to. If you really thought about the skills that you possess, what is your passion? know, I think I want it. And if I can go back to Aliccia as a character, I want her to be in the mid fifties. I didn't say the exact age, but I wanted her to be mid fifties, which is my age, especially because I feel women in this bracket between 50 and 60 they feel like a bit of a right? They might have had a career, but they don't quite like it anymore, or they might have not had a career because they raised children, right? And they put the career on in backward. And so sort of in this, I feel like it's a limbo often. And guess what? They so many skills because they have developed them either in their past career or because they've been raising children or taking care of, they've been taking care of, you ⁓ again children so they have so many skills they can apply to different types of jobs and I want them to think yes you can you can that just like Kaliche. Jennifer Jumba: I think Aliche finds herself a little bit at a crossroads. Is this really what I want to do? Do I really want to start thinking about putting down roots and, having in my life consistently, not just on this continent or this country? So I think it's terrific. I think you're spot on with this, midlife, guys typically get race cars or something like that. And, we tend to be a little bit more deliberate. Elena: Yes. Jennifer Jumba: and this book gives us pause to say, okay, what else could I do? And it might not be called the same thing. I think that's what we also need to be mindful of. I switched careers and so I was in sales and marketing. ⁓ so on a sales calls, ⁓ really same skills when I'm doing a reference interview as a librarian, trying to understand what their need is and then fill that need with something. So it's not called the same thing, but it's applying the same skill sets. Elena: Absolutely, absolutely. And it might fit better who you are now because, you know, we change as people throughout the years. So when we are in our mid fifties, we're not the same person we were when we were even in our mid forties. I'm a different person I want to acknowledge that. And it's not a bad thing. It's actually a great thing. ⁓ Jennifer Jumba: Mm-hmm. Exactly right. That's a fantastic thing. And I also think, you know, that, not only do we change, but I think sometimes the industry that we start in changes drastically. so I think there's many things at play and being able to kind of stop and be somewhat deliberate or intentional is helpful. I think so many times we're like, oh, you know, when this happens, then I'll be able to slow down or when this happens, I'll be able to slow down and life doesn't quite work like that. Elena: It never does. It never does. Yeah. Jennifer Jumba: No, so it's up to us as individuals to take that time. go grab something liquid in a cup and ⁓ sit think. Elena: Absolutely, yes. And think what you can do next, because there is always a next. There's, you know, it doesn't have to be again. I think, well, I've never liked linear paths myself. even more now, I feel like, yes, you can go completely, totally different direction and it's okay. Guess what? It's great. ⁓ ⁓ Jennifer Jumba: There's always a next. Mm-hmm. Yes. So everybody who's listening, know, Elena, give you permission. It's okay to do something different. Because I think sometimes that's all we need is that little bit of push or that little bit of encouragement or belief we're capable of more than we think we are. Capable. Yeah. Elena: Actually do it! No, not only absolutely not only we're capable, but we're allowed to do it. There's nobody who should tell us you're not allowed to change. You're not allowed to do what you want to do now. Even if you didn't want to do it 10 years ago or five years ago, you are allowed to do it. Jennifer Jumba: Yes. Right? Is that what made you decide to write this amazing book? Did you just decide I've always wanted to write and I've, when I was growing up, I wanted to be an archaeologist and like, hey, let's put like these two things together and do something that brings you joy. Elena: I so. think it was a random, I have to say it was a random moment when I decided to just sit and write a book. I had met this other writer and she said, you I think you should write. And I was like, okay. But I didn't believe it that I could write a book. I actually, when I started, I thought it was going to be a story. And I thought, who knows? And I've been writing for work for a very long time, but it's a totally different type of writing. So when I said, Jennifer Jumba: Yes, I would imagine a lot more technical and not. Elena: much more, it's very technical and specific topics and very concise and not many adjectives or adverbs can use. So it's ⁓ concise. Jennifer Jumba: Right. Elena: I think when I, I think I had it all in my head I was little, I have to say when I was in elementary school, I used to write stories and I never believed they were good enough. And I'm sure they weren't. mean, who knows? I don't even have them anymore, but ⁓ always believed, you know, I'm just writing because this is the way I, process things. then I went from stories to journals, you know, I used to write journals and diaries and all that. And then ⁓ I forgot all about writing because then, you know, you start your life and ⁓ work life and then the family. And and kept writing for work and it never occurred to me that I could go back to what I was doing when I was in elementary school, which was writing stories. And so, yeah. And so the book when it came to be, it was a surprise to me because I ⁓ When I got to 50 pages, I was like, oh, this is not a story anymore. And then I was like, can I make it to 100? And then when I made it to 100, I was like, well, I guess it's going to be a book. And then it just became a book, I guess. But it was, I have to say, it was a surprise to me because I, yes. Thank you. Thank you. Jennifer Jumba: you Well, it is one of the best surprises ever because it is a fantastic, book. think, yeah, I think it's fair to talk a little bit about the setting of the book, that it feels like a character in the sense that you take us through kind of ⁓ streets, the alleys, ⁓ car rides, exploring, you know, where they are in that, that London neighborhood. which I think is fabulous. You kind of feel like you're riding shotgun sometimes or I'm hustling, with Aliche as she's on her way to the British Museum or to Scotland Yard. So ⁓ did spend time in London? I'm going to imagine yes. Okay. Elena: Yeah, think this, yes, yes. So the setting was actually probably the second thing I decided, if not the first. can't remember if it was Alicia first and the second afterwards, but setting me was very important and I knew it was gonna be almost as important as a character. And I think I made it a character at the end. I did live in London for five years and it was... probably one of the most special times in my life. London for me is one the, it's the second most beautiful city in the world for me. Rome is ⁓ So London is definitely, in my heart. I ended up meeting my... Jennifer Jumba: Okay, fair. Elena: future husband there, one of my kids was born there. So a lot happened for me in London. when I had to, when I was sitting on my laptop, on my computer and I had to decide the setting, I was like, I can, I'm not ready to do Italy. am, know, Italy is still, I don't know. It just, makes me very melancholic. So I just, can't. In U S I live here. I feel too close. And, and I was like, of course it's going to be London. What else? ⁓ And so, ⁓ Jennifer Jumba: Yeah. Elena: So yeah, I it a pretty quick decision. It didn't take me long to decide it was going to be London. Jennifer Jumba: Well, I think if you're doing that, I mean, you have, like a regular, I say regular, a full-time job. And if this is something that is supposed to bring you joy, I mean, why not write things that bring you joy? The archeology that you loved as a kid, the writing, the short stories, when, when you were in elementary school, the setting of London and all these big happy milestones that occurred in your life while you spent time there. So it makes sense if you're going to come back to this because writing is a very solitary pursuit, writing the book. You're kind of in your own little world. And I always chuckle, not in a bad way, when writers say, that character just didn't want to do that. And I'm thinking, wait a second, you created that character. ⁓ Elena: Very extremely, yeah. ⁓ totally. create the character, but they a life of their own. I used laugh at that too, but now I'm like, it is so true. Like there is nothing I can do. She, Alicci, just wanted to go there and eat that. There was nothing I could do. So it's totally that. So even in the streets of London, because I remember, I tried to... just describe London, but really just I close my eyes and I thought I started to think about the smells that used to smell when I was walking the streets ⁓ and the and the noises and all these different sensory sort of and I wrote down on the page. So I just, it just, for me it was a whole experience. Writing about London was a whole experience with my head, with my heart, with my ⁓ because I saw those streets again. And with my nose, because I, you know, ⁓ smelt all the food and all the different kinds of cuisines that you can smell there. Yeah. ⁓ Jennifer Jumba: Right. You did a wonderful job capturing it. And I can't imagine how difficult it is to use words to capture other But somehow you did. ⁓ We hear the sounds of the street, the sirens, the buses. You can hear the doors You just did a wonderful, wonderful job. But I have to ask, does La Maison really ⁓ If you want to listeners about this. Elena: Thanks Thank you. Okay, this is... You know, I have to say you're the first person to ask me that and I couldn't wait to tell the story. haven't told the story to many people. So place doesn't exist in London, but it does exist. Jennifer Jumba: about this scene. Yeah. Elena: in Athens, Greece. ⁓ actually was there with my at the time boyfriend, future husband. This is a true story. So we were stranded at the Athens airport. There was a strike. transportation strike and we were on our way back to London and we couldn't, there was no plane. there was, and I think we only had like five hour wait for the next plane, there were no hotels, nothing. So we literally walked from the airport in Athens to the first possible place sleep. ⁓ And what we found, Maison. So was the story. So I had to choose a place where they could crash, I was like, wow, that's going to be the Amazon for sure. Jennifer Jumba: you tell us a little bit more? Can you set the scene for readers about what that experience was like or what that functioned as as a place to quote unquote sleep? ⁓ Elena: Lame son. Well, my personal experience was that you walk into a place like that. ⁓ And at the time, I have to be honest, I was very naive. I did not understand right away what type of place it was. Of course, my husband did, but I had no idea. My husband wasn't even my husband at the time. actually, you they're... Jennifer Jumba: Mm-hmm. So, great. Elena: it opened door like you don't need to buzz in or anything you go in and there is a person at the desk giving you a key without looking at you they just look at the money they give you and that's it and then my experience at la maison in Athens was walking up the stairs and thinking are we sure we want to stay here is this good idea ⁓ Jennifer Jumba: Right. then we'll open the door and see the decor. Elena: And you open the door and you see the decor and the lighting is very, you know, subdued and there's not much lighting. And I have to be honest, what I did was exactly what Alici did. I did not touch anything. I actually, I did not sleep. I think I just lied down on the bed, completely dressed, did not take my clothes off. And I just waited like a mummy, know, just lying down like a mummy, waiting five, four hours, I can't remember, ⁓ counting the minutes so that I could get out. Jennifer Jumba: Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm. and if you did possibly fall asleep for a little bit, I had to be really jarring when you opened your eyes to see exactly where you were all over again. Elena: Yes, I honestly I doubt I really doubt I fell asleep. I probably just closed my eyes and yeah, but it's really hard to be in a, know, it's not just and I'm a very open person. like, can I travel then? But I think, you know, especially when you have never and you know those places exist, but you when you haven't experienced it before firsthand, you actually cannot believe this funny feeling you get when you Jennifer Jumba: Yeah. first hand. Elena: Yes, when you're in those rooms. Jennifer Jumba: Yes. Yeah. Well, I mean, besides Lemmey's song, which provided a little bit of comic relief in the midst of this struggle because where, yeah, on the run and where else would somebody think to not look, she doesn't go back to her apartment. She doesn't go back to a hotel. She doesn't go back to Scotland Yard. So it was quite fun. I was like, they'll never find her. Never find her there. Who look there? I mean, you'd have to wonder. Elena: Yes, that's what I wanted, yeah. Who would look there? Yes. Jennifer Jumba: know, who would look there? I know we talked a little bit before about language that you use in the book, and I just want to read a couple of lines because I think they're just so well said. And it is about Elyche when she's walking down the street with Philip. They were walking side by side, carefully avoiding the other's gaze, but each was holding hands with the ever-present demons from their own past. Elena: Yeah. Jennifer Jumba: It's just so beautifully said because their past is kind of wherever we go. always kind of with us. It's whether or not we look back or we look forward or find some appropriate combination of the two. Elena: Yes. Thank you for reading those lines actually. They probably are among my favorite because they resonate a lot with me. I feel ⁓ like past is with me at all times. you know, I don't know if it's because I'm Italian. I often look at my past, not just as country, but as a person and ⁓ it's always with ⁓ I... When I wrote those lines, I really felt them and it still gives me goosebumps when I hear them. you were reading them, I had goosebumps because they really resonate with myself, with how I am. Jennifer Jumba: Yeah, too shy because I had goosebumps when I read it. The other line that I really like is always brought her comfort and hope. It was starting a new life story with a fresh ending waiting to be told. Elena: Yeah. Jennifer Jumba: And it's just that whole like, whatever happened has already happened. My mom always says you can't unring the bell, but how do you look forward to the new day and think the world is beautiful and full of possibilities. ⁓ Elena: That's a good one. Yes, I'm, I love mornings for that reason, because, you know, whatever has happened yesterday, there's nothing you can do. I mean, there are things that you can do to sort of adjust and, but at the end of the day, tomorrow, you know, the sun is going to come up again and you're going to find ways to either overcome or deal with it and learn from or whatever you have to do. But it's going to be tomorrow because tomorrow, yesterday has passed. Jennifer Jumba: learn from. Yeah. Elena: can look at it, but you gotta move forward and look at tomorrow. ⁓ Jennifer Jumba: Great. is Splendor for Nothing is such a beautiful story. We talked a little bit earlier how layered and nuanced it is. ⁓ I think the past plays a predominant theme in the book that each of the characters is trying to somewhat with their past or accept their past and how the past kind of influences their present moment. But at the same time, there's that hopefulness that moving forward things will be different. You have that whole ending that just hasn't been written yet, which I think is so beautiful. And there's so many wonderful characters in this book. You give us a great way to understand them and then how they work or don't work together. So just a beautiful story. I mean, it is so layered and so nuanced and it is so hard, I would imagine as the writer of this fantastic book to Elena: Yeah. Jennifer Jumba: give that so-called elevator pitch, can you summarize the book in 60 seconds? There's no way. I mean, this is a Elena: I can't actually. I've never been able to do it. I'm so bad at that. Yeah. Jennifer Jumba: No, it's a beautiful book and it's meant to be discussed. I mean, it's meant to be shared. ⁓ whether it's, okay, I'm gonna go to the museum because there's things I wanna see, or I'm gonna think back about good memories of things, or I'm going to think about the friend I haven't reached out. I mean, there's so many wonderful things and it is a mystery and there are some dead bodies. But it's done in a thoughtful way. Elena: Yes. Yes. Jennifer Jumba: you know, to reconcile and solve that mystery at the same time, life is happening. I think a lot of times we see mysteries written and it's like their life has been suspended, their regular life, and she's going on living her regular life and trying to do this at the same time, which I think is and relatable. Elena: Yeah. because Thank you. Thank you so much. I am actually so. I mean, I'm thrilled that you're saying that and so grateful because that is exactly, I mean, I don't know if it was my goal, but I'm just so happy that you said that because that's exactly how life is, right? It's just a big mess where you have to deal with a major occurrence, but at the same time, the rest of your life, it doesn't matter how small it is, it's still going on. You still have to eat, you still have to drink, you still have to deal with a hundred other things, your past, your, you know, whatever. So I think that's exactly it. I always feel like, you know, when we have something bad happening in our life, we tend to stop everything else, right? And sometimes rightly so because you have to sort of focus on that bad thing. But the rest of the life doesn't really care that that's happening to you. just the rest of the stuff is still happening. So Jennifer Jumba: Yeah, it's how well you manage it, right? I mean, I know we were talking earlier that this conversation didn't almost happen right now because I had a power outage in the neighborhood. A storm came through and I'm thinking, okay, we're not gonna record then we will record. I mean, somehow I think I can. Elena: Yes. Yes. you Yeah, I I was like, you know what, I'm so used to just rolling with the, you know, with the punches and just whatever happens happens. doesn't, you know, you again, I think you adjust. I think that's the whole point. You just adjust and you just did one of the biggest. wanted Alice to be independent, but also to be flexible and being able to sort of adjust to different situations because I always hope and in my mind, you know, I wrote this book also for a lot of reasons, but one One of the main reasons why I wrote the book was really show my children that you can do whatever you want. English not my first language, right? And if says to you, you cannot do this because English is not your first language, guess what? You can. So if somebody tells you that you can't do something because you don't have... all the requisites doing that particular thing. It doesn't matter, do it anyway. Prove them wrong. Let's not even prove them wrong. Do it for yourself. So I wanted to show them that if you have an idea and you want to pursue that passion and that idea, go right ahead. Don't worry about other people tell you because it's your idea and your passion in your life and do what you have to do. Jennifer Jumba: What a wonderful example you are for your children. The world has just gotten much better with them. But it's probably why you included this line from Alicia's music teacher from when she was a child, Bellestra. He her, don't let anyone tell you what you can or can't do because of how you look or how old you are. Just be you. Elena: I hope so. Yes, absolutely. Jennifer Jumba: And sometimes that is the hardest thing to do, but you have modeled that for your, for your children. Yeah. Elena: And I was thinking, yeah, I hope so. I hope so. I was also, that's why I wanted her to be her mid 50s just somebody in a lot of, is a preconception what a woman in her mid 50s should be. And shouldn't be one way or another. You can be whoever you want to be. And you want to stay home, stay home. You want to travel, travel. You want to, you know, change career, change career. If you don't want to change career, don't change career. ⁓ not one way to do things. And that is my, you know, hope for everyone. They this book and they think, you know what? Yes, I will go do what I've always wanted to do. And I never had the courage to do. Just go do it. Yeah. Jennifer Jumba: Yeah. Or how many people listening are writers and thinking, yeah, I really can't write or I'm never going to be able to write a book. Absolutely. Again, mean, from you, mean, who's modeling that in addition to raising a family and having a career. So there's really kind of, I want to say no excuse, but it's just time and effort. Elena: ⁓ of course you can, of course you can. It's, you know, I think it's time and effort and it's also just, you know, it's never, it's not easy and it's messy and it's, you know. It's not linear. Like I like to use that because there's nothing linear about anything in my life. the path that I've taken in my job and even just family wise and, you I have lived, you know, I've, I've raised a family in a country that where I didn't have a family. so everything was messy and everything is still messy, but it's okay. And you the outcome is what you want it to be. and it doesn't have what it doesn't have to look the way looks for other people. has to look. If happy with it, that's the best thing. That's it. Jennifer Jumba: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's be you authentic, genuine self and the rest of people step off, right? ⁓ I would talk to you the whole rest of the evening. is story's end, the final five questions. So Liche, one the things that she does when she needs to kind of calm down and think is she finds herself walking. What do you do? Elena: Absolutely. you Jennifer Jumba: when you find yourself that you need to kind of down and ground a bit. Elena: I do exactly what Alisha does and that's why I have her walk ⁓ go for a walk. Walks and I like to walk for a long time but oftentimes even 10 minutes I just because I work mostly from home ⁓ and just step out walk for 10 minutes come home and I'm a different person so walking absolutely. Jennifer Jumba: Who would you take an Uber ride with, Philip Laura, Chief Inspector? Elena: I think both. Jennifer Jumba: shared uber. Aliche talks about the favorite part of a house to her as a kitchen. Is the kitchen as well? Elena: Yes. That's a hard one because I love to cook I love the kitchen. It used to be my favorite place, but I have to say that now my favorite place is where I write and my desk. So, yeah. Jennifer Jumba: So you have a designated space that you write at every day. Elena: Well, that's where I work also. So it has become a little nook where it's just all my stuff and my coffee cup and my laptop. Yes. Jennifer Jumba: Okay. That's awesome. What is it that you miss most about Italy? Elena: my family, my siblings, my mother who is 94 and I can see her very much and she used to come here every year but she stopped about 10 years ago and she doesn't recognize very much anymore so definitely my family. Jennifer Jumba: I imagine. I imagine they're incredibly proud of you too for being so brave. then the final question, what song would always be on your road trip playlist? Elena: that's a good one! It's got to be a compilation by the Daft Punk. group Daft Punk. So we bought this CD, when you still bought CD, I can't remember how many years ago, we this CD by the Daft Punk and we were traveling in Italy and we were doing a road trip in Italy and that became sort of the best playlist ever for a road trip, so definitely that compilation, yes. ⁓ Jennifer Jumba: ⁓ great. you That's terrific. want to say thank you to those of you who are listening. A huge thank you and congratulations to Alina with your debut novel, Splendor for Nothing. You said this is the first in the series. You shared a little bit of good news. Can you talk about? Elena: absolutely. So is coming back. Alice Cart coming back with another adventure. The book is Disturbing the Curse and it's coming back the end of May, 30th. ⁓ Jennifer Jumba: So we have time, those of you listening, get caught up before Aliche starts again. So if you're looking for a book that continues to reveal one intriguing layer after another, ⁓ this book is for If you're looking for a book with an archaeologist who is fiercely loyal to her friend of 30 years and becomes an amateur salute, ⁓ this book is for Elena: Yes. Jennifer Jumba: If you're looking for a book that provides glimpses of London, the British Museum, the streets and neighborhoods within this magnificent city, this book is for you. To find out who else will be a guest, go to storiedaccount.com. I want to end with epigraph that you put, open your eyes and your heart to anything that you think is not possible. This is Story to Count with Jen Jumba. Elena: Thank you so much Jennifer, this has been amazing. Thank you for all you do.