Latest / INSIGHT FOR LIVING: Biblical Wisdom For Everyday Living / Responding to Bad Counsel, Part 2

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Responding to Bad Counsel, Part 2 · INSIGHT FOR LIVING: Biblical Wisdom For Everyday Living

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Today On Inside for Living from Chucks Wendall.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Shame based counsel leaves us under an extra load of guilt.
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  Speaker 2: Rather than offering the hope of recovery, it shoves you further.
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  Speaker 3: Into the grave of anguish.
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  Speaker 2: People who are hurting don't need Genghis Khan and Mike
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Tyson rolled into one verbal reproof.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: What do you do when you've done everything right and
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  Speaker 1: everything still goes wrong? And what do you do when
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  Speaker 1: the people around you are certain they know exactly why?
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Today On Inside for Living, Chuck Wendall offers some of
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  Speaker 1: the most practical and honest counsel you'll hear. He's not
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  Speaker 1: going to pretend the answers are easy. In fact, he's
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: going to give you permission to admit something you may
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: have been afraid to say out loud. If you're in
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: a confusing season right now, these principles from Job chapters
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  Speaker 1: four through seven will bring clarity and relief.
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  Speaker 2: Job three, he's in a hole and these three guys
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  Speaker 2: are going, oh, man, I never heard Job say anything
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  Speaker 2: like this, And of course they've never been there, they've
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: never probably had a boil, And so Elafhaz decides it's
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: time to say something, and elafhaz is kind of trying
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  Speaker 2: to get a word in, and he says, your words
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: have helped the tottering to stand, and they have. It's
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  Speaker 2: not flattery, they have, and you have strength and feeble
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  Speaker 2: knees and he had, he says, but now it has
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  Speaker 2: come to you, and you're impatient. You spent all your
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  Speaker 2: life giving other people counsel and tell people how to
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  Speaker 2: stand firm and how to make it.
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  Speaker 3: And now this thing has happened to you.
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  Speaker 2: And now we get the chapter of blast out of you.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, it touches you, and you were dismayed. See
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  Speaker 2: the poetry. It has come to you verse five, And
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  Speaker 2: you are impatient. It touches you, and you are dismayed.
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  Speaker 2: Is not your fear of God, your confidence and the
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  Speaker 2: integrity of your ways.
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  Speaker 3: Your hope. Isn't that what it's about? Job?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not questioning your integrity, but you're impatient
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  Speaker 2: with this. And then when he gets Job kind of
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  Speaker 2: strung out, listen to the twist and the knife. Remember now,
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  Speaker 2: whoever perished being innocent or where were the upright destroyed?
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  Speaker 2: According to what I've seen, see the experience, According to
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  Speaker 2: what I've seen, those who plow iniquity and those who's
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  Speaker 2: so trouble.
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  Speaker 3: Harvested. Got it?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, Job, you're getting what you deserve. I mean, Joe,
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  Speaker 2: if you're that innocent, why are you here? I mean,
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  Speaker 2: I've observed that people suffer like this when they got
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  Speaker 2: sin in their life. Oh boy, I mean, let the
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  Speaker 2: shame begin. Don't ever go there. Don't go there, serves.
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  Speaker 3: No one any good. It's bad counsel especially, But it
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  Speaker 3: isn't true. The problem is he's not through.
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  Speaker 2: He keeps on, talks about visions in the night over
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  Speaker 2: there in verse thirteen, and talks about the generality. And
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  Speaker 2: it's true that mankind is not perfect before God, and
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  Speaker 2: we have a maker, and he's the perfect one.
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  Speaker 3: We're not. As a matter of.
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  Speaker 2: Fact, he's got it right in chapter five and verse seven.
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  Speaker 2: We are born to trouble as the sparks fly upward.
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  Speaker 3: That's true. That's true. And Job, that's what's happening.
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  Speaker 2: But if he had just stopped there, look at verse eight,
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  Speaker 2: little pride seeps in. Now as for me, I would
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  Speaker 2: see God, I would see God, and I would place
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  Speaker 2: my cause before God. Now that's what I would do.
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  Speaker 2: Implying you haven't done that. How does he know what
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  Speaker 2: Job has done? You don't always seek God verbally. Sometime
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  Speaker 2: in the silence, Shoes seek God deeply. I mean, God
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  Speaker 2: is the one who does great and unsearchable things.
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  Speaker 3: He does wonders without number.
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  Speaker 2: I know that Job could have said, I'm not sitting
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  Speaker 2: here like a dummy.
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  Speaker 3: I know that God does great and wonderful things.
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  Speaker 2: I am covered with boils and I've done nothing wrong,
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  Speaker 2: and you're giving me great theology with no understanding.
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  Speaker 3: Please please, He has.
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  Speaker 2: The audacity to say, at the end of verse seventeen,
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  Speaker 2: you should not despise the discipline of the Almighty Job.
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  Speaker 2: You're suffering because you're guilty. You're getting just what you deserve.
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  Speaker 2: You're not listening to the Lord's reproofs. As a matter
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  Speaker 2: of fact, in the long run, you're going to be
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  Speaker 2: just fine, isn't that sweet? Look at verse twenty five.
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  Speaker 2: You will know also that you're we're in chapter five
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  Speaker 2: five twenty five. You will know also that your descendants
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  Speaker 2: will be many, your offspring as the grass of the earth.
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  Speaker 2: You will come to the grave in full vigor, like
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  Speaker 2: the stacking.
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  Speaker 3: Of grain in its And behold this.
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  Speaker 2: We have investigated this and it is, and that is
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  Speaker 2: the way it is.
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  Speaker 3: Hear it and know it for yourself.
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  Speaker 2: That's the answer, Joe, done, no charge, Glad to give
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  Speaker 2: that to you. Peace of my mind I couldn't afford
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  Speaker 2: to lose before I move any further. Let me say
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  Speaker 2: that accusation replaced compassion somewhere in Lafas's delivery. And don't
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  Speaker 2: think Job missed it. A sick person doesn't lack discernment.
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  Speaker 2: If you don't know, and if you don't have God's
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  Speaker 2: clear mind with facts to prove it, please just love
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  Speaker 2: them and stay quiet. If there is insight to be gained,
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  Speaker 2: it will be gained through the comfort and tender mercy
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  Speaker 2: of friends. On occasion. Yes, reproofs are there and necessary,
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  Speaker 2: but while covered with boils, I doubt it.
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  Speaker 3: Job starts right where the man had forgotten. Oh, says
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  Speaker 3: Job in chapter six. Look at the first word.
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  Speaker 4: Oh, Oh, that my grief were weighed elephants, I got
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  Speaker 4: ten dead children.
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  Speaker 3: Elephants.
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  Speaker 2: Listen to me, Oh, that my grief were actually weighed
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  Speaker 2: and laid in the balances together with my calamity, my
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  Speaker 2: grief mixed with my calamity of having lost everything, For
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  Speaker 2: then it would be heavier than the sand of the sea.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, great line, some people carry weight like that.
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  Speaker 2: Therefore, Elafaz, understand my words have been rash. When people
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  Speaker 2: really underneath it, sometime in the deep, deep pit of
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  Speaker 2: it all out will come words that they will later
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  Speaker 2: deeply regret.
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  Speaker 3: Let them have that slack.
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  Speaker 2: Come on, let your kids, grown kids go in little nuts.
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  Speaker 2: Cut them some slack. They'll later understand it. But right now,
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  Speaker 2: you know they've had eighteen twenty years of your sermons.
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  Speaker 2: Let them just say it without needing to correct them.
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  Speaker 2: To be a great counselor requires enormous timing, great wisdom, silence, understanding. Oh,
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  Speaker 2: that they could weigh my grief, my calamity. I don't
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  Speaker 2: think you'd say these things, Elafats. I do know this,
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  Speaker 2: says Job at the end of herse ten, I have
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  Speaker 2: not denied the words of the Holy One.
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  Speaker 3: That's quite a statement. That's not pride.
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  Speaker 2: I want you to know, Elifaz, that in all of
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  Speaker 2: this and the hating of the day I was born,
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  Speaker 2: and in the swinging on my fist of the fact
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  Speaker 2: that I lived and didn't die beyond birth, and the
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  Speaker 2: fact that my misery has gotten unbearable, oh, Elafaz, understand,
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  Speaker 2: I've never once denied the words of the Holy One
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  Speaker 2: in this heart is not doubt. It's confusion, Elefas, it's confusion.
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  Speaker 2: I hope you will give room to your fellow Christians
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  Speaker 2: to have a little time of confusion. Matter of fact,
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  Speaker 2: job even says, without being defensive verse twenty two of
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  Speaker 2: chapter six.
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  Speaker 3: Have I said, give me something or offer a bribe
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  Speaker 3: for me from your wealth? Have I done that?
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  Speaker 2: Or deliver me from the hand of the adversary? Have
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  Speaker 2: I asked you to do that? Or redeem me from
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  Speaker 2: the hand of tyrants?
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  Speaker 3: Have I asked for that? Teach me and I will
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  Speaker 3: be silent. Show me how I have aired?
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  Speaker 2: Show me what a wonderful question or or statement, Elafas,
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  Speaker 2: I haven't asked for something special. I haven't sought for
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  Speaker 2: some corner on this that you would get involved in it,
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  Speaker 2: how painful or honest words. But the end of verse
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  Speaker 2: twenty five, what does your argument prove? Why does it prove, Elafaz,
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  Speaker 2: When we're all through with this, we're no better off.
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  Speaker 3: You're missing it. Look at verse twenty eight. Please look
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  Speaker 3: at me, see if I lie? I love that line. Look, Lafas,
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  Speaker 3: I don't traffic and lies. By the way, lies are
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  Speaker 3: absolutely damning to recovery.
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  Speaker 2: Self lies, lies other people tell see if I lie,
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  Speaker 2: tell me to my.
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  Speaker 3: Face, look at me.
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  Speaker 2: If you can't, then desist, meaning pull back, repent, turn
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  Speaker 2: around if there is injustice on my tongue, pointed out
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  Speaker 2: verse thirty.
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  Speaker 3: In chapter six, Job speaks to his.
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  Speaker 2: Friend, and chapter seven he speaks to his God and
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  Speaker 2: he turns his case over to the Lord.
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  Speaker 3: That's what Job wanted to do.
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  Speaker 2: Job is saying, in effect, if I could only have
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  Speaker 2: a case brought before the living God he qualifies as
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  Speaker 2: a judge, I would come before him, and I would
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  Speaker 2: lay my situation out before him, and I would say,
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  Speaker 2: a judge rightly, and I will take whatever you have
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  Speaker 2: to say.
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  Speaker 3: But he's so silent, he doesn't speak to me.
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  Speaker 2: Sometimes the silence of God is worse than the voice,
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  Speaker 2: because you don't know what he's trying to say. Many
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  Speaker 2: a sick person tucked away in a hospital south of
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  Speaker 2: US or north of US. Many a room with a
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  Speaker 2: child dying with leukemia and hollowed eyed parents sitting beside them.
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  Speaker 2: Ah wrestled with the silence of God. And if you
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  Speaker 2: haven't been there, you can't imagine, nor can I, Nor
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  Speaker 2: can I, he says to his God. My nights verse
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  Speaker 2: three are nights of trouble. They continue. The nights continue.
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  Speaker 2: I am continually tossing until dawn. You ever done that?
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  Speaker 2: Of course you have not like job. But we have
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  Speaker 2: been wrestless.
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  Speaker 3: Through the night.
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  Speaker 2: I've been awake all night. Though I've been laying in bed,
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  Speaker 2: I have not slept a wink. And I've been awake
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  Speaker 2: through the night. My head's been working on the stuff
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  Speaker 2: that I'm struggling with. And then on top of that,
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  Speaker 2: look at verse five. My flesh is clothed with worms
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  Speaker 2: and a crust of dirt. My skin hardens and runs.
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  Speaker 2: Oh man, my days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle,
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  Speaker 2: and come to an end.
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  Speaker 3: Without hope, Without hope, he.
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  Speaker 2: Says in a hurried moment of verse sixteen, Just leave
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  Speaker 2: me alone, Just leave me alone for my days or
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  Speaker 2: but a breath. And then he pleads verse twenty, Have
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  Speaker 2: I said, what have I done to you? A watcher
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  Speaker 2: of men? He's talking to God. He's the one who
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  Speaker 2: watches us. Why have you sent me as your target?
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  Speaker 2: Why am I in your crosshairs? Just tell me why?
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  Speaker 3: Silence.
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  Speaker 2: Why then do you not pardon my transgression? If there
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  Speaker 2: is transgression, why haven't you pardoned it? There's nothing I
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  Speaker 2: wouldn't confess now then, perhaps, haunted and bothered by the
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  Speaker 2: words of Elapaz, Job.
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  Speaker 3: Speaks like a tormented man here and later.
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  Speaker 2: Physically he's miserable, Emotionally he is at wits end, and
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  Speaker 2: spiritually he is confused.
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  Speaker 3: Ever been there?
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  Speaker 2: Just remember, in addition to all that he has been
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  Speaker 2: blamed and shamed and condemned and rebuked. Is horrible, and
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  Speaker 2: those guys had no concept of what he was going through. Unfortunately,
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  Speaker 2: when they began to speak, they spewed.
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  Speaker 3: Out their thoughtless words.
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  Speaker 2: Let's learn some lessons, some hurtful lessons learned from Elafaz,
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  Speaker 2: and some helpful lessons learned from Job. Okay, I'll make
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  Speaker 2: it brief three with Lelafas Number one, Assumptions reduce understanding
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  Speaker 2: and insight. Assumptions reduce understanding and insight. I have missed
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  Speaker 2: on assumptions so many times in my ministry and a
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  Speaker 2: number of times in my council. When your mind is
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  Speaker 2: already made up and you think you've already figured out
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  Speaker 2: what caused this, you can't really understand because you're not listening.
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  Speaker 2: You're ready to get your points across assumptions reduce understanding. Therefore,
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  Speaker 2: your words aren't insightful. They're usually condemning. Second, shame blocks
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  Speaker 2: grace and hinders relief. Shame based counsel leaves us under
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  Speaker 2: an extra load of guilt. Rather than offering the hope
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  Speaker 2: of recovery, it shoves you further into the grave.
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  Speaker 3: Of anguish.
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  Speaker 2: I hope you will forever remove from your lips three
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  Speaker 2: words shame on you.
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  Speaker 3: They do no good.
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  Speaker 2: Here's a third from Elafaz. Pride eclipses mercy and compassion.
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  Speaker 2: When you come across as though you are the final
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  Speaker 2: answer in this situation, you stop the flow of mercy
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  Speaker 2: because pride is pretty stubborn. I read this this week
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  Speaker 2: of a Christian leader who was traveling with his wife
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  Speaker 2: towards Chicago to speak. As he cruised along, he passed
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  Speaker 2: his exit and his wife said, you missed the exit, honey. Well,
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  Speaker 2: that just kind of made him mad, and he said,
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  Speaker 2: I'm driving the car, I know where I'm going. I
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  Speaker 2: know if I missed an exit. She said, you better
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  Speaker 2: turn around. He responded, there's no need for that long
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  Speaker 2: period of silence. He continued on. The signs ceased reading Chicago.
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  Speaker 2: They began talking about Detroit and other cities not so
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  Speaker 2: close to Chicago. She says, honey, honey, all the signs
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  Speaker 2: for Chicago have stopped. You're going the wrong way. He
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  Speaker 2: gritted his teeth and opted for one more exit. When
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  Speaker 2: they reached the exit, there was still no sign for Chicago.
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  Speaker 2: His wife piped up again, honey, stop being ridiculous and
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  Speaker 2: turn around. At that point, get this, every man here
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  Speaker 2: will understand. He decided to prove her wrong. Whatever it took.
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  Speaker 2: He began trying to think of a way to get
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  Speaker 2: to Chicago without turning around. There was no way. Suddenly
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  Speaker 2: he realized he was sinning. He confessed it, gave up,
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  Speaker 2: turned around. She said, see how easy that was.
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  Speaker 3: He smiled.
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  Speaker 2: Now, why didn't I do that twenty miles ago? She said,
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  Speaker 2: because you are too proud. Guys, we really are, and
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  Speaker 2: some of you ladies can be so proud. It's not
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  Speaker 2: We men don't have a corner on it, but we
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  Speaker 2: got a lot of the market and maybe you ladies
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  Speaker 2: learned it from us.
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  Speaker 3: I don't know, But how ugly it is, you know,
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  Speaker 3: if it doesn't reach Chicago.
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  Speaker 2: But I can't be too dogmatic about that because I
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  Speaker 2: drive one hundred miles out of the way to prove
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  Speaker 2: I know where I'm going if I have to. Here's
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  Speaker 2: some positive or some helpful lessons learned from job. There
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  Speaker 2: are two in They're simple. Sometimes people's words only make
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  Speaker 2: our troubles worse.
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  Speaker 3: You say, how basic can you get? Well?
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  Speaker 2: Have you learned it? Are you still listening to everybody?
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  Speaker 2: No wonder you're confused. Everybody is a poor source for wisdom.
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  Speaker 2: Sometimes people's words only make our troubles worse.
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  Speaker 3: Don't follow the trap of believing everything you hear.
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  Speaker 2: Every significant decision I've made in the Christian life, where
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  Speaker 2: I've sought the counsel of others, someone has told me
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  Speaker 2: not to do it. They weren't evil people. They just
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  Speaker 2: didn't have a clue, but you would have thought they had.
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  Speaker 3: Corner on it.
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  Speaker 2: Don't listen to everybody. Pick your counselors real carefully. There's
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  Speaker 2: a lot of bad ones out there, not all.
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  Speaker 3: Of course, but a lot.
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  Speaker 2: Job teaches us Sometimes people's words only make troubles worse.
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  Speaker 2: Here's a second. Sometimes God's ways only make us more confused.
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  Speaker 2: They're upset It I've been wanting to say that all
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  Speaker 2: through this talk, so I finally worked up the courage.
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  Speaker 2: Don't think you need to understand everything that happens. You
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  Speaker 2: know what's great to practice in front of a mirror.
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  Speaker 2: I call it the shrug.
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  Speaker 3: I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I don't care if you have a PhD
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  Speaker 2: from Scotland. Just stand in front of the mirror and
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  Speaker 2: you know nobody around.
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  Speaker 3: Just go.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know. I really don't know.
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  Speaker 3: You know, I can't tell you why that happened? Well,
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  Speaker 3: why did all of this? I don't know. I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: Your great news is that God never shrugs. He never
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  Speaker 2: says that with acute perception. He says, I know exactly
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  Speaker 2: the way you take, I know why, I know how long,
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  Speaker 2: and I know the end. And while you're shrugging in humility,
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  Speaker 2: I don't know, he's saying, good for you. You trust me
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  Speaker 2: in the mystery. You trust me. He's never promised he
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  Speaker 2: will tell us his plan. He's just promised he has one.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 2: So if you have a real, deep, dark question for me,
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  Speaker 2: don't be surprised if I say I don't know, but
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  Speaker 2: I do know this. The death of his son was
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  Speaker 2: not in vain. I do know this. He died for you.
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  Speaker 2: I do know this.
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  Speaker 3: If you believe in him, he will go with him
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  Speaker 3: forever heaven and all the blessings of it. I do
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  Speaker 3: know that. I do know that.
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  Speaker 2: It's a tough journey getting there, full of a lot
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  Speaker 2: of confusion, a lot of struggle, a lot of I
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  Speaker 2: don't knows. But when the heaven's open and we're there, hey,
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  Speaker 2: no more shrucks.
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  Speaker 3: Now, I know.
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  Speaker 2: That's why Job in the middle of this book says,
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  Speaker 2: he knows the way that I take. When he has
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  Speaker 2: tried me, I should come forth as gold. My foot
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  Speaker 2: has held his steps and not declined either. Have I
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  Speaker 2: turned back from the command of his lips.
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  Speaker 3: I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than
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  Speaker 3: my necessary food. That's faith.
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  Speaker 2: He knows the way that I take. Let's about together.
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  Speaker 2: You just may be one of those unshrugging, proud individuals
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  Speaker 2: who were taught that if you say you don't know,
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  Speaker 2: you're going to look ignorant. Really, God says you look humble.
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  Speaker 2: He honors that.
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  Speaker 3: Fact.
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  Speaker 2: Proverb says, there's a way that seems right to a man,
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  Speaker 2: But the end thereof are the ways of death. You
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: don't know the way to righteousness unless it's through the Cross.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: All other ways spelled death. You're surrounded by people who
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: once believe like that, and they've come to the cross,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: and it's there we saw the life and the light.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: And the way, and we believed in him. I invite
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: you to do that today. No need to plead or
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: beg or cajole or embarrass any of you. I offer
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: you a gift cheers to take. It's paid for in full.
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: You just take it.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: It's called eternal.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Life because Christ died and rose from the dead and lives.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: It's yours to take. And all God's people said Amen.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Today, Chucks Wundahl has reminded us that bad counsel is pervasive,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: that shame and pride have no place in the heart
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: of a true friend, and the trusting God in the
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: mystery isn't weakness, it's faith. And at the end of
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: it all, the greatest gift anyone can receive isn't good advice.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: It's grace, freely offered, freely paid for. You're listening to
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Insight for Living, Chuck title today's message responding to bad counsel.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: You know, as much as we might try, we can't
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: dismiss the raw authenticity of Job's story. It's not just
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: a distant parable something tragic that happened to someone else,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: somewhere else, a long, long time ago. We know it's
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: relevant because we've been there. Life was going just fine
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: until the phone rang, or the marriage cracked, or the
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: pink slip landed on your desk, just like that, Job's
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: story stopped being ancient history and started feeling a lot
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: like a Tuesday. Here's what Chuckswyndall wants you to know.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Job was a real man, His losses were real losses,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: and the God who met him in the wreckage is
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: the same God who is present in yours. That's the
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: message in a classic book Chuck wrote called Finding God
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: when the World's on Fire. This isn't a book for
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: people with tidy lives. It's a book for the rest
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: of us, and we'd like to send you a copy today.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: It's our gift to you when you include a contribution
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: to support the Ministry of Insight for Living. You can
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: send your gift and request for the book to Insight
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: for Living post Office Box five thousand, Frisco, Texas seven
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: five three four, or call us at eight hundred seven
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: seven to two eighty eight eighty eight. That's eight hundred
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: seven seven to two eighty eight eighty eight. Chucks Wendall
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: recently sat down with his friend, Pastor Greg Lorie for
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: an unfiltered conversation about their lives and ministry. To hear
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: and see the entire interview between Chuck and Greg, go
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: online to insight dot org slash conversations. That's insight dot
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: org slash conversations. I'm Bill Meyer. Join us when Chucks
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Wendall continues his study of Job a man of Heroic
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Endurance Monday on Insight for Living. The preceding message responding
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: to bad Counsel was copyrighted in two thousand and two,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: two thousand and four, and twenty twenty five, and the
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: sound recording was copyrighted in twenty twenty five by Charles R. Swindahl, Incorporated.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: All rights are reserved worldwide. Duplication of copyrighted material for
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: commercial use is strictly prohibited