Latest / Electronic Music / Kerrie - Techno DJ and Producer
Transcript
- Caro C Hello and welcome to the Sound On Sound podcast about Electronic Music and all things synth. I'm Caro C and in this episode I'm talking to Kerrie, a techno-electro producer. Originally from Cork in South Ireland and now based in Manchester, England, Kerrie travels all over the world doing her live hardware, techno, electro sets. As well as DJing, Kerrie runs her own label, Dark Machine Funk Recordings and is also an artist on the legendary Tresor label based in Berlin. We're unpacking Kerry's process, her kit, her intentions really and the importance for her of the role of being an artist and a DJ for communities and the world right now. To get us started, here's a taste of Kerri’es music. This track is called System Awaken that was released on Tresor in October 2025 as part of an EP that Kerrie produced called Echoes of the Live Wire, where she's trying to capture that magic of her live performances. Hello Kerrie and welcome to the Sound On Sound podcast. Kerrie Hi Caro, thanks for having me. Caro C You're very welcome. As a fellow Manchester-based artist that we actually met in Wales, didn't we? It was, we did the site of free rotation in Wales. Really looking forward to unpacking your work today. Kerrie Thank you. Caro C I'd like to start with a little bit of backstory of how you got down that nerdy rabbit hole, wonderful music world that you are into. Yeah. What got you to this point? Yeah, so I'd say that I'm from a fairly musical family. Um, my mom and a lot of her, her brothers, my uncles, we played the guitar and sing and there was always music in the house growing up. I did music in school, um, and I played the violin for about eight years when I was younger as a teenager. I mean, when I heard. First heard dance music, I was kind of blown away and I did a few grades and I think as a teenager I kind of rebelled against it, to be honest. And once I discovered dance music, but it definitely lent itself to how I make music now, and it's given me, I suppose, a bit of VE air. So that was kind of the early days. And then. I went to clubs when I was quite young and cork in Ireland and there was lots of pirate radio stations around and I was buying tapes and CDs and everything and yeah, just was fascinated with dance music in general. My brother actually, who's three years younger than me, he was really influenced by the tapes that I was buying and playing around the house and stuff, so he actually ended up. By turntables. So they were like belt drive numarx. Um, and he had a set up in our shed in Cork. Mm-hmm. So like, yeah, belt drive decks and a strobe, like just the essentials, like he would play the decks. But then he showed me how to mix. So, so yeah, I kind of learned via him initially. And this was kind of in the early two thousands and I was going to clubs all the time and, but I wasn't buying records myself or anything, it was just. You know, just more of a social thing in, in ga in gatherings, parties I would kind of play. Um, and then it wasn't until I moved to the UK in 2007 that I invested in my own setup. And so it was DJ first for me. And yeah, it kind of grew from there. It was just more my curiosity, I think, than anything. I wanted to know how the music was made. So I started to do, um, a music production course in Manchester, in the Manchester MIDI School. Um, in, around, around 2010, I think it was. Um, and it definitely taught me so much. That course. It was brilliant. And it was the first time actually that I got my hands on some pieces of hardware. 'cause they had the likes of a lot of the rolling gear in the, some of the studios. And they had, I remember specifically they had an access virus, I think it's called. It's a digital synth, a desktop synth. It sounded. Incredible. So that, that was kind of my first introduction to hardware as well. Um, even though we were using logic to, to make music. Yeah. That was how the, the passion kind of started, I suppose. And then after that I kind of just took my own route and went, you know, just again, curiosity, experiment in everything. And that was the, the initial stage of making music. And then after that it was just spending a lot of time in the studio like. You know, turning up like three to four days a week for probably about 10 years. You know, just trying to really learn as much as what I could and get past all the technical barriers with the gear that I had to then get to be able to get in the flow state and just really enjoy the process really. And were you already aware that you were gonna be making what I would call kind of. Almost industrial techno. May I call it that? Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I massively am influenced and I would say part of the sound that I make is definitely influenced by industry and probably from being in Manchester because it was an industrial city. Um, but also I am very much influenced by, um, Detroit. Obviously industry and a lot of the UK techno sound, you know, which a lot of it hails from Birmingham and everything. Again, industry, to be honest with you, I grew up listening to house music. I also like, I think back in the nineties and early two thousands, there wasn't, it wasn't so genre specific. You'd have a mix tape that could have techno, house, garage, you know, different types of dance music, all, you know, kind of merged into one. Whereas now, I think, 'cause it's got so, so big, everything. Can be quite, you know, split into genres and sub genres and everything. But I think being in Manchester and also I started working at a record shop called Eastern Block around 2012, maybe 2013, and I spent about 10 years there. And. The staff and the owner, a lot of them DJ different styles like house techno, Drummond based, jungle and electro. I think working there really kind of, um, influenced my taste and I think, I mean, techno was definitely the majority of records that we sold there and it had like a huge impact to, the owner was a resident at the orbit in Leeds. Like John also passed on lots of white labels to myself and some of the other staff as well. So it's definitely hugely influenced, you know, like, um, my taste and yeah, where I kind of ended up in terms of making music. But it's never been like a conscious thing, you know? It's just something that I, I, I really enjoy, you know, like in terms of that sound. Yeah, so I've got a bit of a theory. You can tell me whether you think I'm right or not, that if you are almost coming into a, being a producer, composer, as a dj, you've already got a kind of, like you say, almost, not even conscious, but a preconditioned kind of knowledge really, and really, um, absolutely intimate, intimate knowledge of what sort of music structure. Yeah. Yeah. Also things like the balance of all, like mixing, you know, what feels balanced and what doesn't. Totally. I always think friends who start off as DJs and then become artists or producers, it gives you that kind of really solid foundation. Can that be limiting in some way or does it kind of, do you agree with that? It gives you a kind of a strong way in? Um, well, I think if it, it's dance's music, there's, I mean. There isn't rules, but there is, there is stuff that has to be adhere to, like the low end and the kick. You know, like this has to work in a club environment. Mm-hmm. Being a dancer is equally as important as actually being a dj, you know, because True, like to me, like being on the floor, like I know what I want to hear, you know, so like mm-hmm. There's, I think that experience is actually more valuable than being a DJ because, um, if you are a DJ who never actually spent time in clubs, you know, that can actually go against you because you're not knowing what. What the crowd is looking for or what they need or what works, you know? Yeah, I think 100%, um, it feeds into my production and also my live as well, because I know with, um, a lot of live sets that they can be experimental or that you can get newly and, you know, um, go into a wormhole, you know, in terms of like experimenting. But I'm very aware of. I suppose it's the DJ mentality or being a dancer, like a rave or on the floor of keeping up the pace and the momentum, first of all, you know, building a trust with people and then secondly, you know, once you gain the trust, bring them with you and you both go together and you can like tell a story and you know, bring people into, um, you know, like different moods and creating that through. You might have a section of tracks that create. An epic moment or you know, like something moody or dark or stripped. And likewise, it's similar to what I do in the live set. But yes, I think it all feeds into each other like 100%. Um, but being on the floor and enjoying dance music for myself, I think is probably the most valuable thing. And that's why I got into it in the first place. And then my mind became curious from spending a lot of times on the dance floor. True. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll never forget people who say, oh, you know, my opinion doesn't matter. I'm not a proper musician. You're like, no, your opinion totally matters. Yes, you are the one that's gonna enjoy my music. Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I, I, I agree. Like so many people say that I'm just a raver. I'm like, no, you are the most important person. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. So let's go to unpacking your live set then, because for me it brought back a bit of nostalgia of. I started out on hardware and decided to make the, the step to be a laptop dancer, I called it. Mm-hmm. Um, in 2013. So it took me a while to get there from the, from the late nineties obviously. I'm really interested as to what kit you're using and why you have chosen to stick to Yeah. To live hardware. For the light. The three instruments that I use are the electron analog rhythm, which is a drum machine and sampler. I use the Electron analog four, which is a four voice para phonic synth, um, which you can use in polyphonic mode if you link the voices together. And then I use the Electron Dig Tag two, which is 16 voice sampler, and it's also a digital drum machine. Um, so they're the three main instruments. And then sometimes I'll bring in the, something like the 3 0 3 in as well as just the 3 0 3 clone base bot cyclone, and then I. Run all of these into a zone 96 and they all have their individual channels on there. And then I set up a strand, big Sky reverb, um, as a reverb and delay send just on the sends on the zone 96. And then I have the return coming through on the return a on the zone 96. And then I have. An auto bone compressor. So it's a compressor andor, and I have that on the master send and return. Yeah, nice. It does make such a difference, like to, now obviously the venue is such an important factor in how it sounds in there and everything, so, and especially when you're doing the sound check, it sounds so different to how it does when the club's full. So I did actually sound check in Blitz Munich, uh, which is an incredible club few. Weeks ago, and it sounded so great in there. I didn't even need the compressor, which is amazing. Wow. But then, yeah, this weekend just passed, um, I used it at a venue in Manchester called The White Hotel, which is an old car garage technically, and there's lots of reflections. Yeah. So it made, it made a big, big difference, but it really brings the highs up and just everything together. So these are the, the three electrons. I have like two of the them, the drum machine and the. The analog four synth. I have them like since 2014, I think. So quite a long time. I'm still on the mark one in, in both of those models. Um, but I have actually invested in the Mark two, but I'm gonna wait. I'm going to America next week for three weeks and I'm gonna be writing some music. So I didn't wanna risk basically doing an upgrade before I go in case of any problems. Mm. So I, I don't really have any problems with them, but I just, I know that the Mark twos have got like, you know, more capabilities in terms of like modulation and very various other things. So, so yeah, that, that's why I've decided to upgrade and that will happen when I get back from America. But yeah, so I use these as my main pieces of kit in the studio and the digit tag, which is a sampler. I can sample any of the other synths in my studio and then use it. So a, a, a sequence from say, you know, the, the modular I can see, I can sequence this. Sequence it straight into the digit Act and it will take on a life of its own, or it can do like a longer pass, basically. Yeah, so it means that I can either build the tracks just on the electrons because the sequencers are phenomenal. They're really in intricate, and you can do things like parameter locks and step changes and how often changes happen. You can do this with a thing called trade conditions. So there's a lot of capabilities within those machines. So that's why I choose to use these as the three main pieces in the studio. And then also it means that when I come up with ideas in the studio, and even if I'm just working in like four bar loops, then that material's already in the machines and then I can translate that into life situation very easily. And how the live works is, so first of all, say in the studio, uh, the. Electrons. How they are organized is in banks and patterns. So it's like say A one, A two, a zero, one, a zero two, et cetera. So all of the three machines have the same setup, but I program them. So when I create an idea, I'll always match up the the patterns and banks. So I remember that say for example, in a zero four, there is this gnarly electro idea that I did on this date and I make note of it. So it just means that when it comes to live. I can grab the ideas, they're already there. And then the live performance, it's not actually me like synthesizing anything live on the spot. I'm basically performing, I'd say loops live, you know? Mm mm I have like, so almost like a directory of all these letters and numbers and. It's kind of, it's, it's a bit like DJing really, to be honest. Um, mm. And I know I have like loops that are atonal that will get me from one idea to the other. You know, like transitions. Um, I know that I have, you know, sequences that I can extend on the fly and modulate. Um, but I'm not like, say for example, synthesize and a sound on the spot, you know, like I know where everything is stored and it's, it's more like me reaching for what I need. And if the. If this situation that I'm in feels comfortable, the setup's right, I can just really get in the flow state and you know, just see what happens basically. But I'll always have a starting point. Same as DJing, very much the same kind of approach. I don't plan anything for DJing, but I always have like a starting point and I'll always have stuff that I can fall back on, you know, like, um, like a safety net. Um, yeah, majority of that is just because of, it might be something technical or, you know, something isn't right around you. Yeah. Yeah. And also that thing of the live is you can't control, there's only limits to what you can control in your environment and Exactly. You know, whether you are ill or I don't know. Anything can happen, can't it? Yeah. So it's that thing of like, you have to put it out the bag no matter what. Exactly. And especially like, 'cause I, 'cause of the music that I make, I. I'm usually programmed to play at like three in the morning. So like, people are already peaking, so the last thing you wanna do is, you know, like you bring the energy down too much, you know, that kind of way. Yeah. So it's, it is pressure, but it's like, I, I mean, I love the pressure. That's what I live for. Um, yeah. So that, that's kind of the live really. Um, and I mean like I have. The A 100 modular, um, the six U, you know, the two racks of, um, it's the Euro rack, right? But it's just quite big to bring out and it's a thing on its own. So for me, it's much easier to sample that or sample of the senses in the studio. Um, and I also like, because I love making music so much, I don't want to have to think about things too much. So when I come back to the studio, I've got separate cables for live, separate cables for my setup. So I can literally just plug. Everything back in and it takes, you know, 20 minutes to get back to get, to get up and running again in the studio. Yeah. Yeah. So it's all about making things easy as possible. Yeah. And you do a lot of traveling around the world. And I never forget talking to Suzanne Ani about traveling around the world in her, with her booklet set up and even when I used to have my co poll 800. So there's, you know, you just, there's too much stress worrying whether it's gonna still want to play when you arrive. Exactly. But still, even with you, there must be quite a lot. You're transporting because. You're sticking with hardware, do you ask for any equipment to be provided by venues, or do you just bring your own? Um, so, like, to be honest, I, I always bring the electrons with me, but now I have them, um, I took out the foam in a small, um, overhead PE case. Mm. And I've just had the surrounding foam. But all the one, the, the foam on the inside is gone, so they fit in there perfectly with my pedals. And then the, the venue provides. The zone 96 and then the, um, certain cables for my effects pedals. But I'll always bring my instrument cables just in case they don't have them. 'cause I know that I can still do the set with the three electrons without any effects. Um, and my instruments, I just need a mixer from them. So, so there's this case, but then, because I play vinyl as well, uh. Yeah, it can be a lot more, just a lot on my body. It can be quite taxing because I'm dragging a bag of vinyl, probably a rock sack full of clothes and some cables and my life gear. Yeah. Not, not all the time, but it, it is a frequent situation, but I, I really love both, uh, formats, you know? And, um, mm. You can't give one of them up. Yeah, exactly. And I, I love, I love playing records as well. I think it's, but both are, I, I love using my hands. I'm definitely a very tactile person and I feel it's a very involved process for me, and I feel I can really get in the zone, like there's no time for. The critical mind, you know, the outside or for any other thoughts to come in because I have to focus, um, yeah. And play in records and using hardware, you know, do, does that for me. And I get a lot of joy out of it. It's like a feedback loop for sure. True. It's, it is kind of a good way to distract the, um, the monkey mind as they call it, the mischievous mind, where you just, if you just keep yourself busy, but also that. Left brain programming side of things, it reminds me of remembering exactly what patch or exactly what program that what, what loop or whatever you're working with. It keeps you, it keeps you in, doesn't it? It keeps you in in that sense. Totally. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And I find that with modular as well as like, um, you know, like for me with the electrons, I am definitely more on the right side of my brain because it's muscle memory. So I can get in the flow very quickly and it's like, um, the critical mind doesn't need to come in until I'm going to record, say in Ableton. Yeah, lovely. So let's explore how your live and studio connecting. 'cause I know that you have released live tracks that are from live sets, but also what's the connection? Is there, is there a chicken and egg where, which one will come first? Or does it depend? How does that work for you? Um, so in terms of what makes it say into a finished track, like it will really now these days. Depend on my schedule because if I have to, if I have lots of gigs coming up, so it kind of dictates how I spend my week in terms of time and what I'm preparing for. So I do try and be pretty structured with my time. But if I know, say for example that I have live sets coming up and I want to get some new ideas together for that, then I might just, you know, jam in the studio and get some ideas together for the live set. And then the following week I might step in and. Do some recording. It just really depends, um, these days. But usually the idea comes together in the studio initially, and then I will try stuff out in the live set. And if it goes down, I, I might try stuff out, um, in, in the live set, but not how I had originally, originally. Planned. Mm. If, if that makes sense. So like I might change up drums or certain sounds on the fly. Something will, yeah, exactly. So totally improvising in the life set. And then I, when I come back to the studio, then that will dictate how the track might get recorded. Say for example. Nice. So it's been dance floor tested. Yes, exactly. Before going to press. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that's it. Like in my. Um, tr, REP actually, um, we were, I was chatting with the lava manager and they were asking about my feedback and I, I told them like, you know, I, I can confirm that this one works, you know, because, just because of all the screams in the club. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Cool. Oh, that's lovely. There's a few gigs. It's so lovely when you do get that audience feedback, isn't it? And that communication, it's a wonderful thing. Yeah. Is there any reason why you haven't gone laptop based then for live, or is it just, as you say, you're not thinking about it too much, you're just doing it? I mean, I love the sound in the machines, but I mean, you can get the sound of hardware or, you know, analog sounds from a computer now, you know, and the, the other, the other thing is like all of my, my sound passes through Midas desk in the studio, and then that's converted. It's via a fire wire cable into a computer. So it's all getting passed through into digital anyway. And I'm using, you know, like the sound toys plugins, which again, are all digital. So it's not even really about like analog or digital. Again, I just love using my hands, you know? So, and I know, and I know obviously. That you can get a controller for Ableton or you know, you could get the machine as well. So it's just, yeah, this is where I kind of ended up really, you know, and, um, I think I've definitely spent so much time with those machines now I, I kind of dunno, like what I would do without them, if that makes sense. You know, it's just like Mm. Oh, you develop an intimate relationship, don't you? The colors as well as the, yeah, the technical side of it and the sounds, yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. And plus you've got so much sampling capacity in there. Exactly. Especially nowadays that you know, you've got lots of possibilities. Yeah. So one thing I noticed, um, excuse my croaky throat, um, is in a lot of your descriptions you talk about community. You talk about how important that is. It's not just about you operating as Kerry as an individual in a sense. I really like that. And I also like that there's a lot of, you want to articulate what your music's about as well, your kind of intention. Can you unpack a bit that, um, yeah, so I think probably. I mean, community has always been important to me, and I think some of the best moments I've ever had is on the dance floor in a shared experience with other people. Mm-hmm. And I, I love making music and making music for me is a very personal practice and journey, but playing music is. Like, some people play music for themselves. They play play records or, you know, whatever their format is at home for themselves. But I love playing music for other people and with people. And it's not like me playing to them. It's like we're together. You know? Like it's the whole aspect. It's a conversation between you and the crowd and building the trust. Um, and as I said, um, yeah, like being on the dance floor, like that's how, how I met most of my friends. In nightclubs, you know, or in parties after nightclubs. Um, and yeah, so I think, yeah, I, I love people. I'm really fascinated by why we do the things we do and you know, why some people are creative, why some people aren't. And, and if there's any way for me that I can influence people or inspire them to be creative. 'cause we all can be creative, we all have it in us. Um, it's just some people can't tap into it. And another thing to add is like, from my own. Uh, family's background, like we're from the north of Ireland. Um, and obviously, I mean, like a lot of people in the north have experienced generational trauma from colonialism, and I know like with, with my family, there's been a lot of problems with addiction and you know, like a lot of suffering and lots of power. And I also feel that if a lot of people in my family had a creative outlet, then they might not have ended up, you know, in the situation that they did. So I'm definitely a big advocate for creativity and for community and for. You being in a flow state in either of those things or together, you know, um, as, as a healer. Um, and as also like really with, with everything that's going on in the world at the moment, I feel like we need community. We need the, the, the world is becoming a divided place and I feel like the dance floor and the club space and community is the only thing that we have that's sacred, where you can be free to express yourself and yeah, feel comfortable. And, um, also. No judgment, you know? Mm-hmm. So, um, yeah, it's, I mean, it's, it's definitely something that's always been a part of what I do, what I believe in, and also going forward, it's, uh, a big driver for me, for sure. I also did like, um, I used to run the event space in Eastern Block, and that was very much about inviting local DJs and local collectives in. Who played vinyl and to give them a platform and to build a community there as well. And I got a lot, a lot outta that process. And also with my own record label, because I'm getting the opportunities to release on incredible labels all around the world. I wanna start bringing people into my own and give them opportunities and give them a platform as well if I can. A big influence for me is my mom, and she's very much, you know, she studied sociology and she's very much about community. She runs community projects and you know, she's traveled the world as well and work with groups all around the world in war torn places. So I think she's definitely had a big impact on me. Wow, amazing. So I can't help but think of, you know, if you go to a flood in a, in a town or in in Ireland and, and it music is all about, it's not about, it's very rarely are you on your own. It is about, it's about others. It's either listening to others, playing with others, or they're dancing. I dunno, there's some kind of connection and that sort of community aspect. Totally. So even though you're a solo artist, you're by no means an individualist. You are just showing up and giving what you can in that moment, aren't you? Yeah, absolutely. And also like, I think the problem these days is the focus becomes about the person a lot and it's about, you know, being famous and like, you know, this mentality of, yeah. Whereas years ago the focus was on being great at something, you know, and now it's about the. It seems to be about being famous and that's obviously social media's fault and everything else. And just the world that we're living in is quite capitalist and individualistic. I'll never forget Sylvia ShowMe, I think he's called the guy who wrote Belleville Rend debut. He is a film director and um, Sylvia ShowMe, that was it. And he said in a q and a always worshiped the art form, not the artist. Yes, exactly. And. I genuinely feel that I'm part of an ecosystem and it's like I'm earning a living from this, so I, it's my duty to pay back into it, you know? So like, that's the way I see it, and it's like you give into something and it gives you back, and it's like a cycle that keeps going. And if you want to be part of it, like the music is the biggest thing, you know, and you are, you're feeding into it. And as I said, like I'm lucky enough to be on a living, but I want to feed back into it, you know? Yeah. Wonderful. Um, I wanna go back to a bit of a technical question. I've got asked or technical query. So, um, I started off listening to a lot of, I suppose you'd call it minimal Detroit techno, that kind of sound. Yeah. Um, back in the nineties, and then I've sort of come full circle with all my different music that I make. I, I noticed when I heard you playing, um, I think it was, it wasn't free rotation, but it was in that venue and, um. You've got that. It makes me think of Neil Landstrom and people like that. So very prominent kick drum. And then the other sounds around it. Are you aware that that's what's happening in the mix and that's part of that defined sound of a particular kind of techno? Um, like it's, it's not, again, like, um, um, me. You know, being inspired by an artist and saying, I want my kick to sound like this. It's just what I'm kind of gravitating to, if that makes sense. But so sometimes though, I'm like listening when I'm doing my live, when I'm playing my live set and then I hear the next DJ come on and they've got like rolling eight oh eights and I'm like, oh my God, I need to change my drums. Yeah, I mean it, it is just. Like a choice, I suppose. I, um, and maybe, I mean, it could be like, it could be the room that I making music in it as well, you know, like where I think it sounds great and it's totally different in the, in the, um, in the club space, but No, no, you are right. It is, it's quite, it cuts through the mix for sure. Mm-hmm. But I have done a few tracks with say 808. And yeah, for me it's just, yeah, I like the energy and just, um, and, and the rawness as well. And like, I'll always put a little bit of overdrive on the kick and everything as well. But I mean, to be honest, it's a constant moving piece and constantly changing and you know, like when I do some electro tracks, they might not necessarily have the same kicks because you might want the snare to stand out more, you know, just for the groove and everything. So yeah, it is, it's not really like a premeditated, I need my kicks to sound like this is just something that I've come up with in the studio. Really. Yeah. So yeah, you are having lots of amazing adventures globally at the moment, both releasing and live and DJing. So do you see any kind of direction evolving or are you just following fascination? For sure. Just staying curious, wanting to learn more. Like every time I go to the studio, I'll try and do things. At least one thing differently or just try and learn something. 'cause I think things can become stagnant. Otherwise, at the moment I have got a bit of a personal project coming up. I'm going to America and I'm gonna actually go and write some music in Detroit as part of that trip. Mm. Um, I know I'm so, so excited. But again, like I've been listening to. The Detroit History podcast. Mm. Um, and reading books about Detroit as well. But I'm fascinated by the impact of, I think they called it Fordism. So it's like, you know, it's capitalism, but, um, basically the impact of the de-industrialization of Detroit. Mm. And but also the music that came from there. All genres. Mm. You know, like, so just this, um, the impact of how much hardship can impact, you know, people's creativity and I'm just fascinated by it, so I wanna go there and just take in some of the city. I'm gonna stay for like 10 days and write some music, but it's, yeah, it's a personal thing, but that's, yeah. Let's see what comes music wise. So there's that coming up and then, I mean I do have some EPs coming up that are gonna be released like later this year and everything, but I don't have like a five year plan or anything. It's literally, I know that you don't, do you know what I do? You know what I mean? It's like, it's these days like things just seem to be evolving naturally. I mean, for years I was kind of like, why isn't things happening and frustrated and I feel like when I took the focus off that and started my own label and taking control of things myself, then you know, things started happening. I feel really, really grateful. 'cause I dunno, it feels like something has shifted and people are just starting to take a bit more notice. But I'm not really doing anything any different, you know? Awesome. Oh, well I wish you lots. Of wonderful continued adventures and creativity and looking forward to seeing, hearing what Detroit experience does for you. I don't know, there's a couple of things that spring to mind. You've got the Carl Craig documentary. I dunno if you managed to see that. Yes, I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Another thing that makes me think of is a project Donna May, where she also. Had like a, a, a spell in Detroit, did lots of field recordings and was very much wanting to honor the, the industrial heritage and the experience, the hardship of that place. And yeah, we all got to, I got to remix one of the tracks and it was wonderful to work with some of those sounds. Yeah, I think it will definitely give you a rich, a rich feed. Wow, that's amazing. Well, I'm gonna bring my, I'm gonna bring my feed recorder with me, actually. Yeah, I think so too. I'm really excited for it. Wonderful. Good luck with everything, Kerrie. Thank-you. Thank-you so much. Thank-you for listening and be sure to check out the show notes for further information as well as links and details of other episodes in the electronic music series. And just before you go, let me point you to soundonsound.com/podcast so you can check out what's on our other channels. This has been a Caro C production for Sound On Sound.