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The Woman Behind Friends at Work: Ty Stiklorius · Clyde Confidential

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The head of that entire company was yelling across the table,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: hey babe, and I hear it again. I hear again.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: I look up and I'm like, he's looking at me,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: and I said, are you Are you calling me babe?
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, you got a problem with that? Oh?
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: And I said, yes, I do. I have five clients
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: with your agency. I think you should know my name,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: or at the very least find out what the is
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: wrong with you. He's like, whoa, yeah, and he looks
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: away and doesn't care anymore. And my friend, who is
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: also pretty powerful, he whispers to me. He goes, you
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: are my favorite person in the whole world right now.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Hi, guys, welcome back to another episode of Quite Confidential.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I'm so excited because I have my mentor in my
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: house and I can't believe I get to introduce her
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: to you. I have the lovely TI sticks.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Hi. Hi. I love being I love that you're my mentee.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: When you give me that title, it's such an honor
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: and it feels so like such a blessing that you
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: see me that way. I'm thank you, of course.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know I never officially asked, and I
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: took it.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I was like, yes, I am.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, thank you seriously. I owe so much of
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: my last year to you, and ever since we met,
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: you've really just showed up for me. And I've learned
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: so much from you, and I want to be you
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: so thank you.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I feel the same way I want to be you.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: I've learned so much from you, and you've done so
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: much to like elevate and enhance and bring so much
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: love to my world and my people. And we just
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: got lucky sitting next to each other one night at
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: a dinner, and the rest was like it just flowed
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: after that.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: It did. I almost didn't go to that dinner, and
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: I think about it all the time. Every time we're
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: in touch, I have a flashback to that night when
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: I was exhausted and it was a women's dinner. I
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: didn't know anyone except for the organizer, and it was
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: a Monday. It was tough, and I almost feel like
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: it was bad weather too or something. There was a
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: reason why I just didn't. I wasn't in the mood
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: to go to dinner. And then I got home from dinner,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: had fifteen new phone numbers, took a selfie with you.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: We sat next to each other, and I think about
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: how timing is everything and the universe brought us together
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: that night.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: So I'm so glad you decided to go, because that
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: happens to me a lot. I'll sort of say, oh,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: I don't want to, you know, I just stay home
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: on the couch night, and then I'm like, nope, you
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: know what I said, I'd go. I'm gonna go. And
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: it's okay to say so. It's like such a good
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: idea to not go. But when I do get that
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: five percent of me that's like just go hmm, and
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I do. I never regret it. It's usually like, oh
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: my god, I'm so glad I showed up because I
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: met so and so and it changed my life where
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I saw this thing or I'm inspired in this new way,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: and yeah, it's nice when that happens. It reminds you
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: to kind of take that little extra step and you
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: never know what could happen.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, can you imagine if I had met you, There's
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: like fifty things that I would not have solved or
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: known or really the same. Yeah.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: But when people ask me for advice, now that's the
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: first piece of advice I give. I say, go do
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: every single dinner you're invited to because you never know
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: who you're going to be seated next to and what
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: connection you're going to make. And I'll keep going to
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: dinners even if I'm tired because of this. So good.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: But aside from being the most badass woman I know, truly,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: you're also a producer. You're also an activist, you're also
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: a mom.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: A lot going on, A lot going on. I've diversified
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: my interests over the years, which has been nice because
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: it keeps you on your toes and you're always trying
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: something new and you never get too good at anything,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: so you just kind of are always challenged and still
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: making mistakes, which is the only way you make anything.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: And it's been fun. It's fun. I'm I turned fifty
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: this year, so I'm.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: You look like you are thirty twenty five.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Tell me more.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: You look amazing.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: It's crazy nice, you know, I think that it's not.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: I was like, I don't even I don't really take
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: care of myself all that much. I'm trying to do
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: that now. It's like I might look a little younger,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: but I don't know if my actual body is like
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: in my body, I'm probably more like sixty because I
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: got to work on that. I know I need to
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: work on it, and I've got two new people that
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I've been connected to to help me with it, because
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: I think when you take on all that stuff and
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: you have two kids and you're doing all this work
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: like I'm the last I'm the first thing that I avoid.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: And I actually think part of how you become really
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: successful in this space often is correlated with a significant
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: amount of trauma when you're younger. So you stay so
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: busy and do so much that you avoid actually facing
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: the thing that you're kind of running away from. And
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: I've found that in Hollywood specifically and in the music business,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: it's almost like a job requirement. And so if when
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: and if your body wakes you up and says like, hey,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I need you to pay more attention, which happened to
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: me kind of in my forties and especially around forty five,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: you start to get like, oh, right, I think at
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: some point I'm going to have to address the stuff
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: that I've been right straight a word, an MBA award
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: winning away, like all the things that you get so
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: successful at will never take away the fact that you've
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: been avoiding. Potentially like dealing with and feeling and processing
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: the lodged trauma that your body keeps score of. And
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: so my whole kind of hope for myself, but a
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: lot of us is that we do not hide behind
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: the success and the busyness, that we find a way
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: to get off the treadmill, and if we need to
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: get rid of our tech and our cell phones and
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: our computers and all of the successful, like all the
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: things that keep us like constantly you know, busy. And
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: you know, I have never done that. I've never actually
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: let go of my phone or my email or my
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: phone or any them probably since the beginning of phones,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: which is so sad.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Even if you're on vacation, you can't put it away
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: for a sec.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Nope, Nope, not even close. And you would think that
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: I would, because I like, I practice so much health
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: and wellness and I'm always like talking about how important
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, I have boundaries and I have there's ways
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: that I do. There's been time periods where I'm like,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: I plug it in downstairs, but I always go I
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: end up like I'm still Yeah. It's the addiction is
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: so strong, and the self importance of your job and
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: your role is so strong, or you can justify like
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: completely avoiding ever fixing that. And so I'm about to
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: do it. I'm about to do a week in January
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: where I'm going to be with two therapists of mine
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: that I trust very much, and I'm going to go
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: and do some work for about a week and they're
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: taking my phone and locking it up. I'm so proud
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: of you. I'm really like, I'm already afraid about it,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: but I am telling everyone I'm prepping and there'll be
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: an emergency line of somebody, like if there's an emergency
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: with my kids or my partner, anybody, like they can
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: call this person. But other than that, like, it's the
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: first time I think I'm ever going to tell my
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: clients I'm not available at all or my team, you know,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: And you have like a whole company and team members
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: and colleagues and staff and clients and kids, and it's just, yeah,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: you can create your life to have to be available
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: at all times, and you feel good doing that because
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: you never have to face the stuff that comes up
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: when you have a week without your phone. Which get
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: back to me on that, because I don't know what's
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: going to happen.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Most people I feel like outside of our industry think,
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, a week off of your phone. What
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: do you mean you can totally do that? No, you can't.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Isn't that funny though? Like we think
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: we're so important that it's.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Not even that. It's just the behind the scenes, the
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: day to day, the little fires that come up, the emergencies,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: and you are important, actually, And I totally relate to
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: the you know people, some people sleep with their phones
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: in the other room. I could never do that. I don't.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: I have a really hard time relaxing, even on a
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: Sunday sitting down on this couch to try to watch
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: a movie. Ask me how many times I've turned on
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: the TV and behind on everything or when.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: You're watching a movie and you're like, I watch things
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: and do the New York Times spelling bee and scroll
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: and so I'm actually my kids are better at it
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: because they grew up with so many limits, and like
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: they're the ones who if they see me on the
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: phone while we're watching movie, they're like, Mom, put your
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: phone away. I'm like, you're right, you're right. Yeah. But
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: what's weird is my eighty four year old dad and
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: my eighty year old mom. We were just together at
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: a farm in Virginia for Thanksgiving, and they're on it
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: as much, if not more so, than my teenagers or
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: than myself. Like they've gotten fully into the dopamine addiction
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: of the constant on this with it?
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Are they on TikTok? What do they doing over there?
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Instagram? YouTube? The New York Tie like they're always doing,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: like the puzzles and stuff, which is a little different
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: because they might as well be sitting with the newspaper
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: at that point. But yeah, no, they're scrolling. They're like,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: we're all in the Yeah. I mean that stuff was
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: made to do that to us.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: It's so horrible. I was. I resisted TikTok for so
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: long because I knew. I said, I don't need another
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: thing to get addicted to.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But the girls and guys on my team said,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: we need to make a Clyde TikTok. It'll get an audience,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: the whole thing. So I caved. And now we make
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: these funny little videos when we post jobs, and that's
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: the only time I go on it. But I'm I
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: do have restraint there, but it is it is difficult.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: I did too. I'm not I'm not fully into the
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: TikTok thing yet. I'll go there and check it out.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: It never holds me for long, but it's kind of
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: the same as Instagram. Yeah, I think I don't.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: I will say when when. When current or local events happen,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: you will find more on TikTok than really news outlets.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Sometimes.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, when that fire happened in Manhattan Beach when Chevron,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: I thought it was another Palisades fire, so I was
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: freaking out, and I went on TikTok and got the
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: leg updates. And it's good for that.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, They're all really useful for like getting information fast
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: and yeah, but I have been noticing more of the
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: AI slop lately. And I was just with Dez, my
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: executive sistant who you found for me, who I love,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: and we were sitting at the office and we were
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: looking at Instagram, and of course, like as you're going
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: through it for anything that you might need or want,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: something else pops up and shocks you without your preparation.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: So I'm just like, oh my god, what is that?
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: I hate that hate it.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: And it turns out it wasn't even real. It's like
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: made to shock you, and it was just an AI video,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: and I think the actual post was about how you
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: can tell that it's Ai, but it was about like
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: a deer jumping into a car with a woman while
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: she was like it wasn't real. A lot of these
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: animal ones lately, I guess.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Got targeted for an animal one last night about a
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: monkey saving a rabbit from a lion. I'm not kidding.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: I watched it three times because in my head, I'm like, jeesus,
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: this is like so sad. The lion grabbed the sleeping
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: mother rabbit with the babies, and then the monkey came
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: out and grabbed a rabbit and saved the day. And
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: then I'm like, oh, that's literally AI because the monkey's face.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Was But you can watch I've watched a bunch of
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: those before I knew that they were all Now I
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: think I sort of figured out. We figure out pretty quickly,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: like if dogs are all jumping on a trampoline, it's
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: the same time at three am.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Like, that's not it's a real tat listen up, buddy.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god, this doggie, though, is real.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: So with AI and and all these changes in that space,
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: does that what does that mean for some of the
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: artists you represent or yeah, if you could speak to
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: that a little.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: On Dear, we talk about it a lot, and not
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: just in the you know, we I mostly manage musicians.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I've been John Legend's manager for twenty years and managed
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Charlie Pooth a lot of different artists right through the years.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: And my musicians that I work with are cautious. They
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: see it as another tool. You know. We can have
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: a complex range of conversations about it that range from
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: sort of like, Okay, how could we maybe learn and
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: think about this? And then we also are like how
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: do we protect ourselves from everything going too far in
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: this direction in terms of like copyright and music. And
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: I think we're just very very carefully stepping through it
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: and learning as much as we can, to the point where,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: like we worked with several of the big companies that
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: came to us very early on how to sign indigate
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: so that we could see what the capabilities were. And
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: you know when I say that, I cried the first
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: time I heard Nina Simone and John Legend doing a
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: duet a duet on a song and obviously it's not
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: real real, but it sounded real, And I mean, that's
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: crazy if you can all of a sudden create something
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: that isn't even possible to create. It's a little different
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: than like the Hologram live show, because I don't know
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: that still looks fake to me. But when you hear
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: the vocals of Ella Fitzgerald and you know, Charlie Pooth,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: I'm just making these up, but it's like that's what
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: it allows you to do. And you could put in
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: like make a song between these two artists that's about
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: love and heartbreak or whatever. You can prompt it and
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: it will create that song for you. And it's getting
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: better and better and better at making it seem really real.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: So that's unbelievable and it's also for and it's also
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: so good that it it made me emotional. Yeah, I
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: think we just have to. It's all happening so quickly.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Like some of the heads of one of the biggest
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: record labels called and they were saying, if we don't
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: solve for this now and create a viable market and
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: an option, will be completely outdone by the illegal versions
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: that are already happening all over the world. Wow. So
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I think everybody's trying to keep up and move quickly,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: and these are these exponential growing technologies that our legal
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: systems are ethical like cannot keep up with. So it's
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: a crazy time. It's like a hold on to your
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: seats because I don't think anybody can predict how far
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: it's going to go where it's going, and we're trying
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: to not sort of be too close minded, we're trying
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: to understand it. We're looking at everything. Some of my
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: ares are like, no, it's cool, it's a tool. It'll
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: help us create and then nothing can, nothing can replace
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: the human creative spirit. But I was at a conference
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: and this very pro AI Silicon Valley executive who often
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: speaks about how great this is going to be, he
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: got up and gave a whole presentation about it, and
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: he opened it with himself in an AI video of
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: him kind of like in a spaceship flying through space
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: and shooting, you know, pure poo pooh, And it was
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: as if he put himself into Star Wars, but it
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: was generic AI video made from I forget the name
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: of the company, that you could just go plug that
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: in and do that Sora. There was a sourra and
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: as soon as that video ended in his talk ended
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of the actors and the filmmakers and the
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: creators and the audience. They went up intod a panel
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: and they were appalled at the fact that that was
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: pulling from obviously from existing IP Star Wars, but it
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: was it's not crediting or giving any money to that
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: existing IP. So that's where it all kind of breaks
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: down because it's taking Yeah, I mean, it's taking all
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: of this information in to create whatever it's creating, and
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: the original source material isn't getting credited or or or
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: funded or compensated in the way that it should be.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: So if I ever go out and hear like a
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: John Legend esque song that he didn't create, didn't get
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: paid for, didn't like, will be.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Furious because how do you even control that.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: There's they're trying to fix it some ways through like
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: blockchain where you will get a certain percentage back. They're
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: trying to make the Bible commercial option so that nobody's
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: figured it out fully. But that's what this major label
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: people were saying, like it could you could go in
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: there and say I want to create a John Legend
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: type song and and it'll then give eight percent of
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: the composition back to John, and it could lead to
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: all sorts of revenue streams, but until that's solved in Havan,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: who decides how much like when my artists go in
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: and write songs with other songwriters, sometimes it can take
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: a long time for everybody to agree upon what percentage
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: of the song you wrote versus him, versus her, versus
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: you know, so imagine trying to do that through this
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: automated AI system. Like there's always going to be disputes
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: and questions. And but you know, one of the arguments,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: I actually think the Trump administration even made this argument,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: But this is the one that the pro AI AI
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: guy said. He's like, you know, you go to the
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: louver and you see kids sitting on the floor or
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: in anymseum and they're painting the Mona Lisa and someone
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: can paint an exact replica, and that's we see it
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: all the time. They're saying, well, that's the same, that's
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: what AI's doing. It's not a great argument.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: It's not the same, definitely not the same.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: But yeah, but it's really it's you know, it's put
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: us all on edge. I think every creator is wondering
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: where we go from here and hoping that the human
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: spirit and that I think a lot of the fight back,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: and you see it with rose Lea's incredible album Lux,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: which is I think one of the best albums I've
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: heard in a decade. Have you heard it?
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: I haven't have to give it a listen. She said
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: it in front of us at when I was working
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: for Jen She sat in front of I was behind them,
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: but had a doer show, and that was the only
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: time I saw her. And she's stunning.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this album she sings in like thirteen different languages,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: and she said every single piece of it was human made.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: And it's a complete commitment to the process and creativity
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: and the execution of like what human beings can do.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: And I love that. I love the sort of idea
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: of like a seal of approval on anything you see
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: that's like this is human, humane, human stan, human human stamp, scary.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Human bookmarker.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: I mean you think about even like our food processes too,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Like you know when you eat it a Russian where
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: it's like farm to table, Like there's certain I think
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: we're going to start to have to very quickly differentiate
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: and have some form of like I only eat human
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: made content, I only watch human made films. I only
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: listen to human made music, because you know you're going
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: to hear there's AI top of the Billboard charts musicians
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: that aren't real.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: That's so wild to think about.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: It's so wild.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Artist when's Grammy?
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: I don't think. I think the Grammy is. I think
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: a lot of these bodies will say, like, we're not
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: participating in that, we're not awarding. I think will come up.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: There'll be a lot of backlash against There is a
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: lot of backlashes.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: You think music managers will start to rep AI artists.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've heard the joke is like there's so
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: much easier to manage, and.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Then like they start making money, where does that money go?
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: So weird to the manager? I mean that's the thing
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: is to the to the infrastructure around it. So yes,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: you will see managers managing AI artists because they'll make
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: more money. They won't have an artist that doesn't show
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: up for the show or you.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Know it needs to travel. You just to book the
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: flight for book the greeterer for it.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, there's no push back.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Hey do you want to do this gig tomorrow night?
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Sure? Yeah. I mean when you think about when you're
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: working with something that's not human, you don't have all
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: the complexities of what comes with humans. I have zero
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: desire for that. I can't. I don't think I can.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: It's like I can only work with things that I
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: am so passionate about and in love with. And if
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: I don't, if there's no energy frequency, if there's no
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: like actual, then I'm not that interested. But what's interesting
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: about one guy said something about, you know, you look
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: back at the Beastie Boys first album, they use so
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: many samples from other Like, so much of those song
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: compositions were made from clips of other people's content, and
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: that was sort of like before it all got regulated
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: and it could be done that way. Now it would
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: be too expensive because you'd have to sample and pay
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: and whatever. But there are interesting art forms that come
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: with new technology, Like I'm not opposed to humans, like
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: taking the best parts of it and making something new
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: and special. Rights.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: We'll hope for a nice little hybrid situation.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna have to walk through it. And like
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: all new tech, I mean, did you know that people
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: back in the day were worried about jukeboxes. No, Like
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: musicians and music people were really worried that jukeboxes were
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: going to replace live music, and then no one would
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: care about music anymore, so they boycotted jukeboxes. Like there's
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: new stuff all the time that scares the pants off.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so to dial it back a little bit.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Even with John Legend for twenty years.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, in like a professional capacity, and then we were friends.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: I've known him since he was sixteen, and he came
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: to UPenn. He was at UPAM when he was sixteen.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Mm hm. He was kind of he was homeschooled up
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: until he was ten, so I think he jumped a
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: few grades when he went into high school. He was
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: like two grades ahead of everybody else. So gosh, yeah,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: when he came to Penn, he was only sixteen. He
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: was a little little guy.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Smart guy, really smart guy.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: My gosh, like a little doogie houser.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: That's crazy, I know.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: And you know, he was pretty introvert, like introverted, shy,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: but had the best voice anyone had ever heard. And
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: I was the president of a jazz and blues acapella
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: group at Penn and he was he was trying out
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: for all the groups and I was actually doing a
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: semester abroad when he tried out, so I didn't even
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: get to hear his tryouts, but I heard about him
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: from everybody else in the group, Like, you won't believe
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: the singer that we got for this for you know,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: for this year. He's like incredible and everybody wanted him,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: but we got him. And then I met him. He's
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: John Stevens, and yeah, he's a really incredible singer. Yeah,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: and I think at the time we thought, if anybody's
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: ever gonna make it, it'll probably be him.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: That's really cool that you recognize that so early on.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure his voice was it is the
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: most incredible voice I've ever heard.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And he had so much confidence and just power.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: And we competed in the national a Cappella Competent Championships,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: like and we competed in Cardie Hall against seven other
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: schools like Stanford and Harvard and whatever of kids came
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: from the colleges and John performed our one song performance
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: that we got to do. He sang that song what
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: if God was one of us? Do I know that one? Yeah?
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: And we came in fourth, I think. But it was fun,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: you know. We took it very seriously. I think of
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: it as my first management gig. Yeah, Like I didn't
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: know what a music manager was then, but I knew
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: that it to be the president of this singing group
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: of thirteen young people. And we had gigs, and we
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: had revenue, and we sang for our supper. We had rehearsals.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: We took it so seriously, and when you're the head
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: of that group, you know there's a lot you learn
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: and that you need to keep on track. So I
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: really liked it so cool.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Did you sing too?
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh my godh yeah. Do you still sing?
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: I do what? Actually, I've just started to take some
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: singing lessons. It's kind of like a meditation singing. This
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: woman she's helped helps you find your voice again. And
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: I sing with my daughter and I sing all the time.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: And I would even sing right now for all of you.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: I would if you ask me to, but I won't.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Actually I can ask.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think if you gave me a shot
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: of to kill it, no, but I want to get
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: back to I could, but it's tough. I want to
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: get back to it. I love singing, and I love painting,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: and I love drawing, and I'm an artist and I
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: subjugated my own artistic self in a lot of ways.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Because I just didn't think I had permission or I
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: didn't think I was good enough. And I think a
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: lot of people, you know, can do that in their lifetime,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: But for me, so much of what I want, I
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: want to do now is honor my own voice and
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: my own process. It's singing, and yeah, so I'm taking classes,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm thinking about it more. I want to make
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: an EP, not for really for public consumption, like I
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: have no desire for a career in it. I just
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: want to do it. I just want to practice it.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: I want to do it. And I have a friend
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: who never took dance or did dance. She's not good
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: at dance, but she got into this dance community over
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: COVID and it changed her life and now that's like
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: her whole world. And she hangs out with the professional
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: dancers and she dances with them. She's never going to
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: be a professional dancer. It's not about that. It's about
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: the process and the movement and the art form and
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: the healing that comes with dance. And so I feel like,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: if she can do that, I can do I can
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: do my own art. You know.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: That's really special and so cool, and I'm really excited
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: for you. And I think that, especially now in your
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: new healing era, all you should go back to all
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: this stuff that makes you so happy. It's til you
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: get back to your center.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, I know, I'm so excited. I mean I'm doing it.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I practice it a little bit. I mean naturally, I'll
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: just sing at home and know where you should go.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: But Marie's Secret in New York. Have you been there?
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: No? Oh my god, Okay, is this like an like
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: it is?
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: You walk down It's like this hole in the wall
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: place in New York. You wouldn't even know it was there.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: You walk downstairs of this bar and it's where all
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: of the Broadway stars hang out and they do Someone's
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: on the piano and then you can take turns going
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: in and singing and it's the coolest nightcap spot in
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: New York. You go to dinner at Via Krooda. You
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: walk two doors down and you're just in this vortex
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: of all these talented artists who they get off work
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: literally from Broadway and they go to Maria's Secret and
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: everyone's just taking turns singing and to sit there in
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: the audience and just watch.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're like, what that sounds amazing. It's so cool.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: You should do it. I need to go, you know,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: you go to New York class I do.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: And my daughter, my seventeen year old daughter is so
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: into Broadway and singing and she's the lead in her
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: high school musical right now go and so we heard
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: about this place and we were trying to figure out
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: if we can get her in or if it's like
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: twenty one only. But yeah, I would love to go
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: do that.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: It's one of those places where you walk in and
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: you just think, this is why New York is New York's.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: There's nothing like it. It's so cool. But it's a
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: great place to go escape and sing. And you're not
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: going to recognize anyone in there. I mean maybe you will,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: but no one if you're I don't know, not wanting
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: to do it in front of friends that you don't
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: seem like a shy I know you're not a shy person,
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: but for all those shy people who just want an
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: escape to go sing and just kind of disconnect, it's
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: really awesome.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Do you have an art like a hidden art forum that.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: You I can't sing for my life, I run, so
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: running is sort of my outlet. I'm a distance runner.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: I like to do, like, wow, half marathons. Sometimes that
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: actually sounds crazy. I've only run a couple, but I'm
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: hoping to do the La Marathon this coming spring. Running
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: is my outlet.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Nice. I want to be there at the finish line.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. If I make it to the finish mine you will.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: I hear that. If you do it, you like the
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: people keep you going.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Totally the energy of the whole thing. Yeah.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Anthony Ramos who was in Hamilton, he has become a
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: friend and he just did John Legend show in Brooklyn.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: It was the twentieth anniversary of Getlifted, John's first album,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: and we had the show in Brooklyn and Lauren Hill
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: came and played two songs the roots were there, Wow.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: And Anthony Ramos came and did Ordinary People as a
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: duet with John.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: And two days before he had finished the marathon in
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: New York and he was like, if it had been
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: yesterday that you asked me to sing, I could not
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: have gotten up. Yet his body was in so much pain.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, I couldn't walk for four days after I did
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: New York four days. I also didn't train properly. But
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: it's gnarly on your body.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also feel like you and I
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: have this other art like art forum or whatever you
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: want to call it, where we're so connected it and
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: turned on by i don't know, like getting out of
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: our worlds and our comfort zones and our privilege and
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: meeting the needs of some other community. That's like, I
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: don't know how to put it exactly, but I don't
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: think I'd still be in music management or the entertainment
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: world or anything if it wasn't for the social impact side.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Of what the other work, if it were the other
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: work of Friends at Work. Yes, Friends at Work is
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: the name of ties company, by the way, And there's
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: all these different branches within the company, and one of
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: the branches is a big philanthropy branch that focuses on
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: foster reform. What is that formally called.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: So we have an impact side to the company, yes,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: and it's not actually kind of There are companies we
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: work with that consult for us and do a lot
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: of that with our artists. So when we started the
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: company Friends at Work, I knew that I only wanted
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: to manage artists who were going to give back and
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: think about how they can use their platform for good
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: because all too often fame and fortune and pop stardom
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: goes hand in hand with an isolation, and so in
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: order to help artists stay grounded and have good mental health,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: I found that they really need to think about things
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: outside of themselves, Right, So what's a cause that they
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: care about with something they can do and not just
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: an animal rubber chicken dinner version, like you show up
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: for one dinner with fancy people, but like get really proximate,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: as we learn from Brian Stevenson, like how do you know?
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: How do you know the issue up close and personal?
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: How do you go and consistently understand it? How do
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: you listen and learn for a good solid year and
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: then dive into the complexities of it? And so we
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: have an impact team per se. But a lot of
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: it really was about work that I was doing with
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: John Legend and John is I think one of the
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: greatest examples of an artist too who uses his platform
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: to do good in the world. And we had always
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: kind of done stuff in our twenties and thirties around
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: extreme poverty and education reform, and then one day he
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: was like, I really want to focus on this mass
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: incarceration issue and criminal justice reform, which was not something
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: that many people we knew were talking about. There were
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: no prominent celebrities that were in that space really other
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: than like Johnny Cash who had been singing in prison,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Love Johnny Cash, Love Johnny Cash. You know, but this
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: was probably fifteen years ago. John was like, I want
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: to understand this because he had just read Brian Stevenson's
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Jess Mercy and he had just read Michelle Alexander's book
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: The New Jim Crow, and those books changed his life
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: and his perspective, and he was like, I want to
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: understand this. So we started getting into criminal justice reform
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: and we spent a whole year listening and learning, which
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: meant we were visiting jail, immigration detention centers, women's correctional facilities, prisons.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: We were meeting with prosecutors, public defenders, we were meeting
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: with sheriffs. We were trying to understand how does this work.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: And what we learned from those books is that we
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: are the most incarcerated country in the world. And that
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: seemed crazy, like, how's that possible? The Land of the Free?
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Why do we put so many people behind bars? What
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: do they look like? What's it like what's the racial demographics?
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: There so so much to uncover, and then there's so
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: much to fix. And John's a former strategy consultant, so
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: am I. So we also really love the idea of
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: like this is ripe for reinvention, this is we can
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: solve something here. There's so many pieces of this that
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: with a little bit of thought and ingenuity and funding,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: we could make better. And so in that process, we
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: visited a lot of places and I kept going back
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: to Lancaster State Prison and that's where I met this guy,
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Jared Harper. I met jaredt at a in prison and
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: he was sentence to life without parole, so he was
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: never getting out. And he had been told when he
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: was sixteen, this is it, Like you're going to prison
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: for life? Gosh, And yeah, he was still just like
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: running the men's support groups and getting his working towards
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: getting his ged, and you know, he just was such
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: a good person on the inside, trying to make life
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: better for people around him. And I kind of said
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: to him, I was like, you know, what are you
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: doing here? Like we need to get you out, like
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: you shouldn't be here, and he was like, I don't know,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: I think I was really naive actually when I looked
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: at him and I said that, and I said, we're
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: going to get you out of here. That's you know,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: when you have a big heart and you're in certain
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: places and you don't understand them fully, you can make
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: bold claims like that. You can think like I'm going
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: to solve this almost delusionally, but then sometimes it happens
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: like you manifest it right. So in that process we
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: not long after we met him and kept meeting him,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: some laws were passed in the country, one by the
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court that said it's unconstitutional to sentence a juvenile
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: to life without parole. And when that happened with the
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court, it started to happen state by state, So
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: about half the state started passing laws that said, yeah,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: we agree it's unconstitutional. Therefore we're going to go back
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: and look at anyone who was sentenced to life without
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: parole who was a juvenile, and we're going to give
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: them a chance at parole. So that law passed, and
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, Jared Harper had a window of hope,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: and many other guys that we knew, and we thought, okay, well,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: if he has a chance at parole, we could potentially
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: help get the governor to commute his sentence and we
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: could get him out. And we wrote letters and we
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: learned from his caseworkers and all of his lawyers what
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: was possible, and a lot of people were fighting to
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: get Jared Harper out of a life sentence like that
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: because he had been abused in the system. He had
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: been foster care, you know, young person who kind of
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: grew up in the foster system, and through the foster system,
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: they had all this documentation of how he had been
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: sexually abused, his little brother had been like all of
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: these things that should have stopped, and you know, but
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: he ended up murdering the person who sexually abused him
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: and his little brother. And you know, that's not something
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense to then sentences sixteen
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: year old to life with that parole like it's just
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: it's madness, really. But once things started to shift and
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: the narrative start to shift, and we worked with the
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: lawyers and John and I wrote a letter to Governor
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Jerry Brown saying we think you should commute his sentence.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: And I said, and if if he gets out of prison,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: I'll give him a job again. Like stuff that they
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: tell you not to do because it doesn't scale. It's
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: for you and a yah like that doesn't scale, you know,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: like you don't know what you're getting yourself into. I
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: think some people on my team thought it was like
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: crazy and they're like, oh, her big bleeding heart.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: But all my friends think the same, right, right.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: But you go down that path, something's driving it. You
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: learn a lot of process. And I'll never forget the
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: day that I got the call from Scott Budnick and
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: that you know, Jarrett hadn't even heard yet, but that
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Governor Jerry Brown had thirty commutations he was going to do.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: He saw the letter with John and my name is
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: really John's name on it that he saw and he
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: decided to make it thirty one commutations. And I cried
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: and cried and cried and then yeah, and then he
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: got out and I was like, oh, well, come to
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: the company, like you have a job now. Yeah. So
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Jared Harper is now has been an employee for in
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: our impact department, and he started a nonprofit called Better Days,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: and it's about ending the foster care to prison pipeline
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: that is all too frequent and flooded and he's just Yeah,
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: he's just an incredible, incredible human being. Like what he's
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: been through, what he's seen when he's grown from We
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: are really lucky to have him in the company. But
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: also you know, he's out there doing speak engagements and
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: making a film. There's a little mini doc that I
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: need to show you that.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: I gat to see it. He told me a little
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: about it when I met him at your Christmas party
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: last year. Oh yeah, and he said hi to me,
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: and we were just sort of bonding over how much
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: we love you, and he looked at me and said, no, really,
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: tie change my life. And the way he said it,
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: I didn't know anything about him a the time. I
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: was so curious and I said, well, what do you mean.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: In my head, I'm like me too, And then he said, no, really,
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: she changed my life. And then he at your Christmas
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: party he told me his story and I almost I
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, I was so unprepared for this.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: I obviously teared up. I got so emotional and realized
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: in that moment how special he was. And then that
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Monday I sent him an email and I said, let's
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: chat because I want to do something with you. I
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: want to do a fundraiser. I want to be involved.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: I want to be in. I want you in my orbit.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: I don't deserve much credit. I think I had done
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: enough work in my life.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: You get a lot of credit for that one.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Well, it's the same thing. One of my artists, Goldie,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: she called me really nervous to go in the studio.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: She's writing her new album and she was on her
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: way to Paris, and she was really nervous, and she's like,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: I don't think I've done enough preparation, and I don't
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: know if I'm going to be like good at this
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: I'm And I said, Goldie, it's not about you, Like,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: you don't have to write those songs. You just have
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: to be a vessel for the channel that's coming through
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: you to create those songs. Like do you think the
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Beatles prepared to go in to write? Let it be?
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: Like you just go in and as long as you're
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: breathing fully, like, deeply like and letting your fear either
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: acknowledging it or leaving it out doing a little cat
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: cow like, you prepare only by being open and present.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: And I think I had done a lot of really
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: good work and that's what led me to being open
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: and a vessel for whatever happened with Jarrett, just like
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: whatever's happening with you and the family you're working with,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Like it's don't you know? And did you get a
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: feeling like it's not even really about you, that you
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: have this deeper thing that's telling you, like.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Just do this, you're being called to do it.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the same with music. It's the same with
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: anything that's great and transformational. It's the same with art.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: It's the same with loving your child, like loving another,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: it is as simple as keeping yourself available for all
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: that could happen through that act of love. And so Jared,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: it's funny he changed my life. I changed his life.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: It was symbiotic. I took a couple of risks. He
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: took a bunch of risks. Like nothing about that was
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: easy or like familiar or took like somehow me being
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: a better person, Like it's not about that at all.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: I'm not a better person. Anyone could have done that.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: I just happened to be open enough and like ready
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: for it. So it just happened. It was meant to be.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: And I believe overall, I believe that I mean the
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: family that I'm currently helping. I told you I met
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: them in the hallway. I saw the dad with the
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: five kids in the hallway of an evacuation center around
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: the LA fires, and I ran up to them. I said, Hi, Hi, Megan,
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: and I said, come down to our center, and they
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: came down, and I assumed that they were fire victims,
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: but they were just homeless. And it broke my heart
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: because you could see that they were totally struggling, but
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: they were keeping it together because it was five siblings
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: and they just had such a special bond. And you know,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: fast forward almost a year later, and I've got one
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: moving into my back house, because of course that's what
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: we do. I remember looking at him saying, I'm going
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: to I'm going to do something. I don't know what,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: but I promise you I'm going to do something. And
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: he turns eighteen this Sunday, and I don't like any
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: of the other options. And I don't think it's a
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: coincidence that I moved into a house with a back house.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: I think that was the universe doing something behind my
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: back and it worked out this way. And that's where
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: you and I are similar, because when someone like this
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: comes into our lives. We just do it. That's what
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: we do. There's no questions. There's maybe a couple of questions,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: but it's you know in your heart that that's what
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: you're that's one of the things that you're put on
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: this planet to do.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And we all find our own versions. And then
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: at some point you might be like, Okay, now, I
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: you know, learned this and this and there's this, you know,
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: because I a lot of what people say when it
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: comes to things like this, it's like, well how does
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: that scale? You know, and you get away from the
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: human going back to the humanity of it all. It's like,
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: I do think we're all called to help a few people,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't have to be something that you can
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: always do again and again and again, or that you
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: can you know, some people can maybe I For me,
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: it's like I do think that it's the older I
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: get there's just like this and I wasn't. I'm not
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: like a religious person, but I'm much more leaning into
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: the spiritual kind of what is your heart? What are
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: you open to and how do you authentically connect with
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: other human beings to help each other out? You know,
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: It's like when you can do that and when you're
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: open to it, you do it, you see it through,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: you know, and sometimes you can't. Lately, I've been working
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: with my coach is saying like, look, you know, when
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: you get to be a manager of talent like the
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: one I have, such such great talent, you have such
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: a great company, such a good infrastructure, you can imagine
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: how many artists are coming and saying will you manage me?
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: And I have a really hard time saying no.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: Have you ever said no to people?
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: Yes? And I'm learning how to do it because and
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: for a long time, I was so much better at
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: just kind of keeping it in a limbo zone because
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: I couldn't say no because it would break my heart.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: Like I just I was too like sensitive to want
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: to say no because I'm like no, but I love
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: you and I want to. But the truth is if
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: you bring that on, you better follow through. And so
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: learning to say no, like I don't have the bandwidth
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: and I'm not going to keep you in some limbo
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: space about this. I'm learning from my other friends sault
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: like you close the loop. And I think a lot
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: of the people pleaser is part of like the Hollywood
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: you know stereotype is like yeah, let's do lunch, and
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: then you never get together, and do you know it's
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: and that happens because a lot of us learned like
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: you stay, stay really friendly, don't puss anyone off, be
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: a people pleaser, but that can also mean flaky. You're
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: not really following through, you know, and so you can't
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: take everything on. And I am trying to really get
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: good at like listening to my body and knowing when
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: it's a yes and also when it has to be
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: a no.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: And you know what, that's something that's going to help
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: you get back to your core because once you start
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: protecting your peace and your energy and what you get
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: the time that you give, and stop people pleasing and
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: having better boundaries just professionally with yourself and in your work.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: That's something I struggled with for so long until this year.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: Really yep, interesting because I was the girl to say,
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: my gosh, I haven't seen you in forever, let's get dinner,
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: and then I would pack my schedule and always regret
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: it and be exhausted and be overworked. And I think
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: I knew that I had to start being better and
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: taking care of me because work, like similar to you,
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: always my outlet childhood trauma work outlet. Yeah, but then
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: I wasn't taking care of Megan, and once I stopped
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: caring about everyone else, just really focused on me and
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: the close knit When you get older, your circle strength
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: in your circle. Yeah, but I'm really grateful for my
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: current inner circle because I've cut that energy. I've said no.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: When I say yes, it's because I want to be
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: there and I'm being intentional. But that is something that
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: will be so powerful for you.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've done it before, and I went like almost
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: too far the other way because when she have like
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: little little kids, you know, I was like, I never
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: did anything, I never went out. I missed everything. It
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: was great because I didn't care. I was like, I
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: don't care if I miss the Grammys because you know,
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: none of that stuff meant much to me. And then
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: I went back into it and I got really busy
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: and I loved going to everything. And now I'm It's
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: always that balance that you have to try to find, right.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: But it's hard, I think, especially when you're managing artists. Probably. Yeah,
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: they must want you everywhere all at once.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: Yes, So that's why you build a good team, and
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: that's you know, there's not for some reason the music
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: business there's just never been tons of professionalism and like
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: there's no playbook. It's sort of like I didn't have
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of mentors as managers. I just and so
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: kind of thinking about, Okay, how do we build an
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: ecosystem around artists that I can't do everything. I don't
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: know everything. I'm not going to be the one to
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: give you the best advice on how to break, on
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: what to do to become viral and TikTok. I'm not
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: always going to I don't haven't been to every venue
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: in the world. So I need my head of touring,
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: Like I have a whole infrastructure of like people who
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: know way more than I do on individual issues, and
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: together we can manage a great client that has a
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: big global footprint. And so I really love I love
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: the idea that, like management is a team effort, that
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: we're all doing this and you can call me the manager.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: But also like I, you know, artists come to me
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: and they want sometimes they just want me, and I'm
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: like no, no, no, no, Like you have no idea how
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: much you want Jeremy and Maya and Jadob and Tina
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: and Angel, Like you want all of these people because
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: you just get me like you're not getting the depth
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: and breadth of knowledge that will make you even more successful.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: So the artists that work really well with us come
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: and like plug In, they respect all of the roles.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: It's called friends at work, not the ties to glorious
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Maverick Management Institute. You know, it's like it is not
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: as much about me, and I think you know, I
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: grew up Quaker.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: I went to Quaker school.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: I think from the time I was in first grade
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: through twelfth grade. Quaker philosophy is really very egalitarian and
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: very humble and very much like we all have equal
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: access to God. There's not one somebody who's closer to
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: God than us, which which is pretty radical if you
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: think about it. I mean back when you know, like
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: the pope is all it's to some certain people like
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: you are nowhere near that close to God. But the
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: Quakers really believed for for long, long, hundreds and hundreds
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: of years. That's their take that there is no where
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: it's all directly. It's very hippie. I love it, and
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: I love it really lucky to go to that school
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: because I think it applied. After I graduated, I realized
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: how much I was applying that to everything. You know,
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: we were also graded on concern for the community. As
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: young kids, we're always out in the community doing work
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: in different places with different people, and that changed, you know,
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: you don't It kind of gave me this practice of it,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: so you don't delay your altruism until your bill gates
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: one day, Like you practice it just like you do anything,
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: and then it becomes like you make a difference every day,
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: every week, every month. Uh. And it's so I feel
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: really lucky that I had that as a basis for
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: my education and it's led me well, and it's why
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: I went to Friends Central in Philadelphia. And so when
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: we were trying to come up with a name for
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: the company, my friend Rob, who's the co owner of
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: our creative agency and works with me and has going
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: back to my like previous place where I was. Rob
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: was the one who came to me and he was like,
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: why why are you the way you are? Like how
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: do you do what makes you this way? And I
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: was like, well, I went to Quaker school and I
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: went to Friend Central and this is what they thought
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: and this is who they were. And so he had
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: been thinking for months about what the new company name
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: would be when we started it over a decade ago,
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: and he came to me one day and was like,
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: I think we call it Friends at Work.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: And I was like, yes, that works, that's great.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: And then a lot of people actually at that time,
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: and I won't say who, you know, I got some
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: pushback because people were like, it's too soft. It's not
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: like it's like you're too nice, you know, all friends
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: here the music business because the other names were things
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: like Maverick. Yeah, But funnily enough, we named it friends
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: at Work. It was over a decade ago, and since
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: then we've seen ten different companies with the word friend
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: in it in the music space alone.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: Like it took a whole wild's.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's wild every day, you know, like your company's
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: named like we're friends or best friends or yes, Like
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: I was like, Rob, you really started a trend.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I'm proud.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: Of it because the whole ecosystem of the music business
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: should be more about all of us working together and
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: less about whatever it was back in the day, which
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: is much more I think kind of like hierarchical and uh, exploitative.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: And you know, a lot of the people that were
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: managing artists. When I met then, when I was much younger,
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: they had this book The Art of War up on
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: their shelf, and that was sort of like what you followed,
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: you know. And again the music business is full of
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: It draws a lot of people with a ton of trauma,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: and I think it's a job requirement for the really
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: big artists. So it's not surprising that it's just this
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: like place of so much polarity, like the purity and
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: beauty of music, but surrounded by a lot of ego
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: and struggle and you know, a lot of unfortunately, like
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of suicide death, Like the music business is
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: not a healthy choice. You look at all the famous
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: artists and the tough lives that they've lived from, you know,
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: Prince and Michael Jackson, Tom Petty, like early death, like
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: people should have lived longer. But that life on the road,
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: and not just for the artists, for the crew, for
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: everybody in that lifestyle. I was reading the stats the
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: other day there was this that came out by the
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: NIH that it's like it's a much higher prevalence of
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: mental illness and suicide and addiction of course, so sex,
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: drugs and rock and roll. It's a fun playground, but
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: babies full of a lot of abuse, exploitation, particularly to women.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: It's been really not great. Yeah, and so it's can
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: can you take a light of consciousness and good better
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: practices and health and healing shine that on this space
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: and commit as a community to say, let's come up
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: with some new rules, let's do it better. Let's spend
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: a little bit of the excess billions of revenue and
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: profit on ways to keep people alive longer.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: It's a lot to take on as a CEO and
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: a manager. How the hell do you do all that?
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: You build coalitions, you talk about it, you under earth
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: more and more true. You write op eds for the
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: New York Times talking about your own experience with sexual assault.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: And by the way, if anyone has not read that
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: piece that Ty wrote in the Times, please do.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: What is the title?
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: It's in the New York Times, and you know they
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: picked the title. I didn't pick the title. Really, yeah, yeah,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: this isn't that funny? Like the title that's something about
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: p Didty like? Now the P didy blah blah blah,
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: we can clean up the music business. I did not
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: write that. I never said that, so I was like,
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: that's a funny title, but you know they wanted it
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: to be linked to the current events of the day.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: But yeah, if you just go to New York Times
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: and Times to Glorious, you can find it. But that,
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: you know, yeah, you just have to speak up and
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: out and tell the truth and then find each other.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: I have a whole whiteboard of all the women that
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: are now managers and how much we love and support
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: each other.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: And I saw what you posted the other day on Instagram.
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: Article came out about all the male managers and there
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: was not a single woman's name on that list, And
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine how that felt, because that's that ain't right.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: We've been used to it for years. A lot of
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: the lists are always predominantly men, like the power Players
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: and the Billboard Music it's one hundred power Players, and
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you'll see a woman on it, but
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: usually she's like coupled, Like she'll be like Michelle Jubilier
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: and so and so. There's never enough women on those lists.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: And I used to go through and count them, you know,
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: but even our tech tech algorithms, like when Spotify with
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: you know, I would say, like, not too many years ago.
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: I remember they had a Rock and Roll of the
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: Nineties playlist and it was for like one hundred and
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: six songs on that playlist of like rock from the nineties,
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: and I think there were only five songs by women
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: and women artists and bands on that list. And I
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: remember thinking, like rock and roll in the nineties to
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: me was it was so many women, like women dominated
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: the rock charts, Like, who's making this list?
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: We're making any of these lists?
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Well at the time, I have no idea, but I
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: spoke up enough about it that they shifted it, and
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: then they made like our women in Rock from the
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: Nineties list, right, so that the alternative to adding women
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: to the main list is to then go create. So
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: that's what happened with it was Hits magazine. They had
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: their like manager's issue, and they're like, here's our top
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: managers and it's just like apparently it's pay to play,
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: like years. So I didn't realize that, but apparently if
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: you have fifteen K just burning in your pocket, you
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: can get on that list. So but it was all men,
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: and I whined about it publicly like loud good, which
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: was fun. Yeah, like we're allowed to feel our rage
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: and fucking complain.
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: And I don't care and I'm just not like they.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: Ever put me in anything anyway. So but then yeah,
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: like a week or two later, people were sending me
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: like it worked because they had then made a list
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: of the women managers. But they interestingly a lot of
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: the women that they all of them. I think most,
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: if not all, of the women that they then listed
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: and the women list of managers were employees of those men.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: So still pay to play. It wasn't like they didn't
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: put me in it. They didn't put alex to Persian,
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: and they didn't put you know, Rachelle. They didn't put
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: any of the women managers that I know if that
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: are out there doing it on their own all day
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: every day. So we're finding each other, we're helping each other,
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: we are thinking of ways to collaborate more and have
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: more power together. But you know, we have a long
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: way I go. We have a long way to go.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: And what's unfortunate is that, like you find that those
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: moments and pockets of progress in history where we do
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: start to see more equity, you know, there's such a
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: backlash to it that, like the concepts of equity inclusion.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: If I move the words around and change the letter order.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: Will they still sound as offensive to some people as
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: the concept of DEI Like, all we're saying is inclusion, equity,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: really really reasonable beautiful things, and then diversity. Why would
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: that be offensive to anyone? Why would anybody want to
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: cancel that? Well, there's this whole ridiculous take, but it is.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: It's almost like now the strategy is like, let's let's
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: all do well, let's get in there. We don't have
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: to call it anything, but we're all going to be
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: helping each other have more power, and we're all going
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: to be supporting each other to learn and know the
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: things that make us successful so that the women managers
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: I know, who are often the breadwinners and their families
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: and mothers, like just like I was when I was
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: becoming a manager. It's like it we're helping each other
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: through it, and that's how we're getting better and better
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: at it, and that's how you have to do it. It's
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: so fun because now I have a community and we
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: can all like we can just we have something to
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: fight for together.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's what drew me to you initially, because
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: when I met you at that dinner, that was the
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: first time we met, obviously, and after that you really
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: invited me to everything. Mate always checked in, made sure
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: I was okay, and I felt like you were sort
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: of like taking my hand and being like, I'm going
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: to show you, like how to navigate this space. I'm
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: a female, I'm an entertainment I'm more like probably now
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: i'm film side than we are. We work with a
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: lot of musicians, but we're most of our clients are
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: actors and it's also mostly male dominated. So to have
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: you do that for me was really special. And there
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: are not a lot of females like you across entertainment,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: music and film who would take someone's hand like that
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: and say, let me bring you here, let me introduce
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: you to this person. I'm going to hop on a
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: zoom with you about this family that I've never met,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: and I'm gonna pick up your call and respond to
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: your text. Yeah, no one does that, so, I mean
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: people do it, but really not like this, So that's interesting.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: I yeah, maybe we're just like kind of you know,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: meant to be for sure, early close friends. Like that's
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: really cool. Yeah, I mean it was no brainer. You're
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: just you. You're so you bring so much to the table.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: You're just full of so many I mean, you know everybody.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: I feel like you know more people, and you're such
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: an incredible entrepreneur, what you've built, what you've done.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: But I look up to you in that sense because
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: what you've built, truly, I'm so blown away. And yeah,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: I want to grow up and be like you, and
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: to get to work alongside you would be also such
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: a dream.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: But why do I feel like that's going to be happening.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: I think I don't know, We'll see.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: This is fun the more I think a lot of
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: women have kind of had to do it on their
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: own or underneath the men, which is the way I
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: did it for years. But you look at those companies,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: those conglomerates of entertainment executives, and they were all men
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: and at the risk of getting in trouble. I mean,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: I had like five huge clients at one of the
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: big agencies. I mean I was making that agency tons
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: of millions of dollars and the head of the agency
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: did not know me. He should have, but he didn't.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: It's right. And we were out at some fundraiser dinner
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: and John Legend was performing and I'm at the the
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: table of all the agents from that company was there
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: kind of next to where I was sitting, so I
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: knew a couple of the guys, but I there was,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: by the way, not one woman at that table. This
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: is probably maybe fifteen years ago, and a lot changes
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: in a short amount of time, But at that time
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: I went over to the table to say hello to
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: the couple agents that I knew again. I had huge
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: clients with that agency, including the one that was up
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: on stage. And I don't know if I don't think
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: I've ever told this story publicly, but the head of
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: that entire company was yelling across the table, hey, babe, babe,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: and I did not hear it as it being directed
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: to me at all, just like I heard a loud voice.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: Then I hear it again, I hear again. I look
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: up and I'm like, he's looking at me, and I
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: know his name. He's famous. And I said, are you
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: are you calling me babe? And he goes yeah, And
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: I was like, did you just call me babe? He's like, yeah,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: you got a problem with that, and I said, yes,
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: I do. I have five clients with your agency, and like,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: I think you should know my name or at the
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: very least find out, Like I just was furious, and
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: it was such a response. It was a reaction like
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: somebody hurt me. It wasn't a conscious like, hey, you know,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: maybe there's a better way you could tell me. I
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: actually like was furious. And then I remember feeling like
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: the record scratched and the sound ended, and like I
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: felt like I was so embarrassed, like oh no, what
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: did I just do? But also just like still like
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: what the is wrong with you? And that ended, so
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: it got quiet, and all the agents of the table
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: were like wow. And then he's like whoa yeah, and
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: he looks away and doesn't care anymore. And my friend,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: who was also pretty powerful, he whispers to me, he goes,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: you are my favorite person in the whole world right now.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: So they had all been subjugated by that guy. They
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: had all built so much resentment for the way he
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: treats people. So it was just the culture from the
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: top down right like that's and we even had a
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: whole TV show that everybody liked. I hated that show,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: but it's like that what you know, like it glorified
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: that culture and I'm over it. Megan, like no more
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: of that, Like it's stupid, Like it's dumb, And what
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: if there was a better version of you know, leaders
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: and ecosystems and people in this industry that could be
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: together in that same way that those guys all had
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: that power and built it. What if there was a
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: better way to do it where we had that and
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: that type of interaction would never happen and the sort
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: of things that we know they're bad about some of
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: those environments. So what if we could be more conscious Again,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: it all takes us a little bit of light. And
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: the reason we are called upon to bring it is
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: because we've lived the other side of it. If you've
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: never experienced someone calling you babe across the table disrespectingly,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: like which he obviously hadn't, you would never know how
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: that feels. So you're lacking the depth of empathy and
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: clarity of what you never want to do to other
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: peop And that's nothing. It's nothing compared to like real
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: oppression and pain, or microaggressions, or the way that particularly
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: black women are treated. You know, it's there's a lot
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: of ways to feel subjugated, and then there's a lot
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: of ways to overcome it and to be more conscious
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: of it. That's not to say that I haven't made
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: mistakes or we all do it. But when somebody calls
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: you and it's like you hope that you can learn
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: and grow and empathize and change, And there's nothing wrong
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: with that. That's not too woke. It's just loving one
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: another better. Like what is wrong with like learning how
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: to be human decency?
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, human decency. I think it's getting better. That was
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: fifteen years ago. Well have you seen him since? And
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: does he know?
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: I said to all the agents, I said, I am
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: going to wait for an apology and I'm going to
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: wait for him to call me and take me out
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: to lunch. And he never did, never did, and I'm
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: still to this day like I don't think he has
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: any clue. You know, it's way too important for that
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: one reaction to matter. But if his team had been smart,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: they would have said to him like, hey, you know,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: she's pretty important. She's you know, we really want to
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: like she's done a lot for the company, Like make
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: sure you call her.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: I was surprised that he didn't, because I made it
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: pretty clear multiple times that I was waiting.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: What a shame, I know, what a shame.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: I know it's so silly though. It's look, it's easy
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: to be the one on the small side fighting the giant.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you look at that and you're like, Okay,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: that's not the practice I'm going to bring into my company,
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: and that's just not for me.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But I also I do get like empathetic and
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: conscious of where have I been a giant? And where
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: has somebody been offended by me? Like it's entirely possible,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: if not probable, that there's somebody that could be on
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: a different podcast ten years from now who's like that woman.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine anyone saying that that.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: I think to be human. I think to be human
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: is to constantly come up against your own failings and
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: your own And look, do I think it's getting better?
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: My optimistic side and like positive side is like absolutely.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: But then my partner, who's a sociologist and a professor,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: was giving me some real stats, and I think, I
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: think when women's rights to our own bodies are being stripped,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: I think when when basic human rights are being dismantled,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: when people are being you know, like that interaction with
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: nothing means nothing if you're somebody who's then like if
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: you're somebody who's being taken by masked men on the
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: street and sent you know, whether you're a citizen or
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: not to some holding cell. Like the injustices that are
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: happening to humanity right now on every level are I
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: think worse. And I do have fear that we're in
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: this like backlash moment where there's so much hate and
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: anger and violence and it's not getting better. But I
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: also think in our ecosystems and some of the places
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: we play, I still think that it has to it
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: is getting I think it kind of might be getting
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: a little bit better. I don't, at least in my universe,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: and maybe it's because I'm older and I have a
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: little more power. From what I see in my innerish circles.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: It's getting better. But there's a different agency that I'm
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: now at with a lot of my clients, and it's
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: mostly women in those meetings, and nobody would ever do
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: that in that space to anyone. So it's getting better
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: for me in certain places. I think. I'm very conscious
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: of the fact that in a lot of places it's
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: gotten a lot worse for a lot of people.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: Well, I think one of your best qualities is that
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: you're not afraid to just speak up when something's wrong,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: like you're the first one to you know, post something
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: that's like, hey, I'm gonna call you out because I'm
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: a female and that's not right. There should not be
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: all men on this list. And I'm over here, like
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: my name is Ti.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, I'd love to encourage people to be more cranky.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like out of course.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: And call it out, you know. I mean, it's it's
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: kind of a maybe it's kind of like it's rabble rousey,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: but it's it's okay, and it's fun and people, you know,
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: they want, like.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: I kind of love to poke the bear sometimes if
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: it deserves to be poked. I'm also like that same.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I don't know. Maybe it's like our good
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: people pleasing good girl, like other alter ego side where
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: you get to practice. I do worry sometimes, like uh oh,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: because I can get me in trouble. I try to
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: balance it. I also try to practice it a little
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: bit because I think it's important to have all of that,
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: like the compassion and understanding. And but there are certain
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: things like yeah, I won't I won't, I won't put
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: up with yeah, and and my kids are learning to
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: be activists. You know, we're they're there. We're all working
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: hard to show up and stand up for for people's rights.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: And in subverse, in silent ways, quieter ways, more subtle ways,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: underground ways, and then like.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: Really over it always doesn't have to be too loud.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: You can do other stuff. And I think as a leader,
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: just the way that you set the example for your
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: employees and for your artists, that's you know. Yeah, anyways,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: what advice would you give to anyone who's looking to
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: grow up and be a tie or a music manager
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: or have a career in music.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: I've had some people come to me like I want
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: to be a manager, you know, like I'd love to
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: be a manager, and like, well, are you one? And
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: they're like no. I was like why not, you know,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: because if you want to be a manager, you're out
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: there saying music. You're going to find a band that
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: you love or an artist that you love, just like
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: I did with Maddi Diaz way back in the day
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: when I wasn't really a manager yet, and I saw
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: her at the Bitter End, and I.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: Love the Bitter End. My friend used to sing there
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: when we were in high school in New York.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: City.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: It's still standing there.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: It's still there. I just I can't remember why I went,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: but I watched. Oh I went to see something else,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: and then I stayed because she went on afterwards. Never
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: heard she was a nineteen year old Berkeley College of Music,
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: not even a graduate yet. She was like in school
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: at Berkeley with two other people, Kyle Ryan and Adam Poppik,
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: And they performed that night. I'll never forget it. I
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: even remember like exactly what they were wearing. And this
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: was probably two thousand and seven and eight, it's a
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: long time ago. I was so moved by her performance
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: and her voice. And there there were and I remember
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: getting like sweaty problems and really nervous, and I was like,
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: oh gosh, she probably has a manager. Like that person's
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: probably her manager or whatever. But I went up to
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: them afterwards and was like, you were so incredible. Do
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: you have a manager? And they were like no, And
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: I was like, can I be your manager? I think
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: if you want to be a manager, you will be
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: a manager, whether anyone gives you permission or training or not.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: You will find an act that you want to die
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: for and you will do everything for them. And it
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: probably won't work out. You probably won't be the one
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: to break them, or even if you are, they might
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: leave you five years later when they actually start to
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: make it, after you put in all that time, blood,
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: sweat and tears. That's not what happened, Maddie. Maddie and
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: I parted. I was with her for many, many years,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: and I just didn't know enough about like how to
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: do it then. I didn't have enough power, but I helped.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: I feel like in some of these circumstances, like you're
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: just one of the lucky people that gets to sort
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: of be there. I also have a lot of fear
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: and regret that I like messed up in a lot
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: of ways. You know, I don't know because there is
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: no like handbook, and none of it's really objective. It's
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: all subjective, like should you do this or not? Should
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: you sign here or not, should you take that deal
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: or not? Like there's a lot of like randomness in it.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: But Maddie is killing it now, like after all these
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: years she opened for Harry Styles, She's making the best
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: music I've ever heard her maid Kyle Ryan went on
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: to become like music director for Casey Musgraves and one
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: of the best musicians in Nashville, same without a topic.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: I think he still plays with Maddie and you know so,
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: I say to going back to the long way to
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: get to the answer of your question. If you want
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: to be in music, whether it's an artist or a
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: manager or anything else, you just go do it now.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: If you can get a job at one of those
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: big places, fine. I even had an MBA from Wharton
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: and applied to all the big record labels, thinking like
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: I am the smartest person they will ever hire, with
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: the most knowledge, and I didn't get the jobs.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: That's crazy because these.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: Record labels were like, you like music too much, You're
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: kind of weird. Like we're looking for an NBA who's
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: going to crunch the numbers and help us make more
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: money off of artists, Like this is not for you.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: I think they saw that, like I would have been
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: like destroyed by the actual job. And I'm grateful that
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: I was never in any of those environments. But I
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: didn't get to being a music manager entrepreneur until it
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: was a near death experience. I was a strategy because
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: on the plane, yeah I was. I wore suits to
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: work and I did PowerPoint slides and spreadsheets for big
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: public companies and media and entertainment. I was not a
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: music manager until I was in my Like I was
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: probably twenty nine years old. I was flying back from
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: Seattle to Los Angeles on an Alaska Airlines plane and
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: at twenty seven thousand feet, looking out over snowy Mountaineer,
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: a giant losion pop. I don't know how you explain it,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: Like just a loud like happened, And the next thing
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: you know, there's wind rushing in the plane and your
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: ears are popping, like my ears will never be the
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: same from like the rapid depressurization happened, the mass come down.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: It all happens in an instant, And in that moment,
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: I thought, I can't believe this is how it ends.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: I cannot believe that this is the moment. And I'm
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: in one of those moments and my life is about
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: to end. And I was scared. But I was also
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: just so angry, like furious that I hadn't lived my life,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: that I had been like doing all the things I
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: was supposed to do, to be responsible, to please my father,
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: to make sense as like a word an mba, you know,
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: to make enough whatever, And I promised God and my
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: dead Lithuinian grandmother that if they landed the plane and
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: I survived, I will go in and quit my job
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: that week, even though I had no idea what was
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: going to do after that, and that I would get
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: to living, that I would live my purpose and my
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: passion and the things that I love instead of what
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: I think I'm supposed to do. And I made all
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: these promises and promises and promises and prayers, and we
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: had emergency landing. There were ambulances and fire trucks and
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: it was a big lawsuit and it was a whole
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: big deal. But I did go in that week and
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: I said to Tom Fuling and Sarah Harden, who is
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: my boss at the time, I said, I quit, and
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry because you guys gave me such a
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: great opportunity here and I feel like I'm letting you down.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: But I was in a near death experience and I
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: promised myself that I would go find my passion. And
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: they were like, are you okay? Really are you sure?
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't know. And then I
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: spent about six months kind of really depressed, like I
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: had no idea what I was going to do next.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: And I was scared, and I was sad, and I
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: was probably traumatized from the whole experience.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: My god, I wouldn't fly again for a long time.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know how you.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: It took me years to get over the panic that
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: would happen in my body if a flight just like
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: had a moment of turbulence. But but I did. I
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: called my old friend from college, John Stevens, who had
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: just put out Get Lifted, you know, his debut album
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: on Columbia Records, and he was living in New York.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: I was living in LA and he's like, come to
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: New York. Let's whiteboard and I did. I flew to
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: New York and we whiteboarded and we wrote all these
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: things on the board. I remember saying, like, you could
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: be the male Oprah one day. We could end world poverty,
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: you know, all the things that like, John, what would
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: you want to do if you actually succeeded in this business?
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: And he wasn't famous yet or anything, like he'd put
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: out I think he'd put out his album, but it was,
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: you know, it was getting some traction. It was kind
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: of crazy because we're like, oh, my god, you're the
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: only person we know that's ever done even that right,
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: but in our minds we were gonna end mass incarceration.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: I mean not at the time, but like we were
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: that delusional.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: We knew that you would do some big things together.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think we put it on the whiteboard
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: and now so one of my other advice is, like,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: if you want something to happen, write it down, talk
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: it out with your friends, like commit to it, make
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: a plan and show that that's I mean, one of
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: the things we put on the board was you're going
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: to be on Time magazine one hundred most influential because
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: you're going to do all of this work. You're going
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: to become a famous musician, but you're going to use
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: that to give back to the world and to have
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: an impact that helps your community. And interestingly enough, John
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: Legend wrote an essay in Springfield, Ohio for a McDonald's
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: MLK competition, like what are you going to do to
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: live up to civil rights leaders of this time and
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: to support the legacy of doctor King? And John was fourteen,
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: I think, and he wrote this essay saying, I'm going
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: to become a famous musician and I'm going to use
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: that power and privilege and my fame to then give
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: back to my community and to help like to help
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: people essentially. Wow. And he won the contest and his
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: essay got published in the local paper. I have a
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: copy of it.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: I would love to read it. That's really crazy.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: So he had the vision, he knew and then I
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: just got lucky to kind of know him. And yeah,
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: and that's kind of how it all ended up here.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: So if you want to get in this business, sing
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: in an a cappella group in college, become friends with
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: an interesting, diverse group of people who you didn't end
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: up becoming friends with because because you were all in
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: the same sorority, from the same background, with the same hair.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: It's like you have to go into spaces where I
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: don't know. The thing that we all had in common
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: is we liked to sing. And there were people from
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: Hawaii and Little John Stevens from Springfield, Ohio, and Tracy
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: Greenberger and Kristin Meyer from Medford Leakes, New Jersey, and
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: you know Bennett Bistleteer and I remember all the singers,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: and none of us had anything common other than we
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: love to sing. But we did spring breaks together and
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: trips up and down the East Coast and so you know,
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: if you love it, you just do it. Eventually you
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: get there to the thing where you're actually doing it.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: But I'm always surprised when people going to be like,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: so you want to be a manager, what music do
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: you like? You know, and they'll say, like two musicians
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: who in my opinion, are not like they weren't Mitchell.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 3: Okay, that's wood Pack, Like fine, yeah, so if you do,
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 3: you also have to be like a history I think
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 3: you have to really give a shit about the legacy
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 3: of music.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: You know, throughout all of the history of music, it
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: was not an individualistic endeavor. There were no individual people
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: throughout all of human his youthic song and sound and
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: music and music performance was a collective experience. It was
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: a spiritual endeavor. You could achieve greatness as a guitar
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: player or whatever, but like so humbly in the lineage
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: of those who came before you and taught you how
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: to play, so nobody was you know, it wasn't a
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: high on the narcissistic spectrum thing. You were part of
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: a collective. You were creating music for the great good.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: You know, there's all sorts of interesting history about music
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: like I want people come into this business and want
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: to like champion it or manage it or help artist
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: to have a real depth of knowledge about this space.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: You can't come be in music if you don't know
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: anything about music. So it's like you better be a real,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: like diligent student. And then probably also really need to understand.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: There's not a lot of writing about management, so there's
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: no book that you can read that's like how do
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: I become a great manager. I'd love to write something
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, you should throw something together.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: I kind of want to with just you know, with
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: everybody that I do it with and all of us, Like,
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: I want to write that book. I want to write
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: a book about fifty women's stories from the music business
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: to uncover a lot of the unspoken things that have
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: happened to us, well, a lot of bad stuff. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: I want more truth and reconciliation so that we can
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: know that it happens, so that we don't let it
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: happen again. I want all of that to come up
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: and out. But the weirdly the music business doesn't talk
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: about itself much like it doesn't say much there there
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: have been some women's books that like they were marginalized,
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: nobody read them. I've heard about some stuff lately that
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: I want to go read, so I'm going to work
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: on that. You know in my older years too, is like,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: could we be a better historian of our space? Answer
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: is yes, And I think you could do the same
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: thing for the space that you've been building in that
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: you're in, Like I don't. I don't think people really
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: know much about like what does it mean to have
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: that role?
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: I I am going to put together a twenty step
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: guide how to be the best assistant or just assistant
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: guide for dummies, because a lot of people really don't
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: understand the job. They think it's dry cleaning and errands,
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: and it's sharing a brain with the CEO of a
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: powerful company or an artist who's making music and changing
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: the world.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: So I love that take. That's the best assistant I
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: ever had. She and I shared a brain. Yeah, she
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: is still to this day, like I think of her
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: like my little sister, my mother, my best friend. I
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: love her so much, and she's gone on to become
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: like one of the most important women in record Like
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: she's at a record label, like killing it. I can't
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: remember what.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: She's killing it.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: So she worked under you question filling it nineteen when
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: I mean she started working with me and I was like,
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: you are remarkable, But it was because we shared a brain.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: It's cool when that happens somebody who's just anticipating and
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: knows and you're teaching them things and it's like it's
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: such a symbiotic, beautiful experience.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: Assistant jobs are the best training camp for anything period.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well, Ty, thank you so much for being here.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: I'm so excited for all of your books and to
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: see what this year brings and what new artists you sign,
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: and I just wish you all the best. And we
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: need to do our dinner or female dinner.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: We'll figure that out. We need to bring our people together.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: And thank you so much for letting me, you know,
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: tell some of these stories and say some of these things.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: I don't often practice this, so it's so fun when
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: I get to it's been a while, so it is fun. Yeah,
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: it's nice of you to give a platform to all
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: people and just like helping us, you know, come up
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: with the thesis and say what works and where we are. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: I really love it.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: Thanks, love you, love you all. Right, Thanks guys for
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: tuning in at Cloude Confidential on Instagram and we'll see
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: you soon.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: Bye.