Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / TEEN SON SAYS MOM 'FELL ON KNIFE' A YEAR AFTER HE SHOT DAD DEAD, MOM'S LAST TEXT REVEALED

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TEEN SON SAYS MOM 'FELL ON KNIFE' A YEAR AFTER HE SHOT DAD DEAD, MOM'S LAST TEXT REVEALED · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: A teen's son says, Mommy fell on a knife. This
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: one year after he shoots dad dead tonight. Mommy's last
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: texts revealed good evening at Nancy Grece. This is Crime Stories.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us. I don't even know
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  Speaker 2: what to say. Really, in my left speechless a kitchen
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  Speaker 2: knife plunged in her neck and when police arrived, it's
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  Speaker 2: still protruding from Mommy's neck, not one, but two stabs.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: I gotta think about that, the two stabs. Many people
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  Speaker 2: will argue a fight broke out.
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  Speaker 1: It was a heated argument. I was out of my
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  Speaker 1: mind with anger.
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  Speaker 2: But the law says premeditation can be formed in an instant,
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  Speaker 2: the twinkling of an eye, a moment, as long as
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  Speaker 2: it takes to raise the gun and pull the trigger.
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  Speaker 2: For instance, the fact that there were two stabs means
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  Speaker 2: there's time to form intent. Who stabbed mom? Joining me
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  Speaker 2: an all star panel? But first, before I get into
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  Speaker 2: the facts.
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to go out to a renowned.
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  Speaker 2: Veteran trial lawyer, a partner at Price Benewitz's leading criminal
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  Speaker 2: defense attorney with the law firm in DC, and former
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  Speaker 2: homicide prosecutor joining me, Peter, odum, Peter, don't even you
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  Speaker 2: have to agree that intent can be formed as the
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  Speaker 2: law said. I'm sure he recalled Joseh Luther Alverson as
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  Speaker 2: he would tell juries in the twinkling of an eye,
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  Speaker 2: his words, not mine, and it upheld scrutiny all the way.
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  Speaker 1: Up to the appellate courts. Wouldn't you agree with that?
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  Speaker 3: I agree with that, but I don't think that's where
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  Speaker 3: this case is headed. This is not going to be
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  Speaker 3: a case about intent, Nancy. This is going to be
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  Speaker 3: a case about metal illness. And of course, I mean,
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: this is a terrible tragedy many times over. And what's
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  Speaker 3: terribly tragic about is that two parents are dead at
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  Speaker 3: the hands of their own child. What really compounds this tragedy, though,
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  Speaker 3: is that this was entirely preventable, particularly the second murder.
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  Speaker 3: Colin Griffiths suffered from a severe hold on.
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  Speaker 2: Hold on, Peter, I respect your prowess in the courtroom,
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  Speaker 2: but can you hear yourself? This was entirely preventable, especially
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  Speaker 2: that second murder. Yeah, okay, let that ring in your
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  Speaker 2: ears for just a few moments, because when police got there,
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  Speaker 2: the son, the teen's son, who had just been given
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  Speaker 2: a new car by mommy.
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  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, right.
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  Speaker 2: Before she was stabbed, she okay, she even went the
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  Speaker 2: extra mile and got the big red boat to put
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  Speaker 2: on it.
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  Speaker 1: I know all about that.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, look there they are. She's taking him everywhere. Just
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  Speaker 2: before she was murdered, she shared a photo of herself
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  Speaker 2: and her son.
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  Speaker 1: Then bam, she's dead. You know, Peter, you know my children?
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  Speaker 2: How many hundreds thousands have photos?
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  Speaker 1: Have I forced you and others to look?
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  Speaker 2: At me with John Davy, meet with Lucy, meet with
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  Speaker 2: the twins. Here, we're at six Flags. Here, we're at Grandma's.
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  Speaker 1: Blah blah.
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  Speaker 2: She just posted one of those and then bam, she's dead.
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  Speaker 3: Oh it's it's horrible, Nancy. It's it's terrible. It's a
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  Speaker 3: it's a terribly violent death. And what compounds it is
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  Speaker 3: if he killed his own father under what have to
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  Speaker 3: be described as suspicious circumstances just a year and a
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  Speaker 3: half ago.
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  Speaker 4: But I don't see this case.
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  Speaker 1: You can't claim he was mentally ill then too well?
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely, you know, Nancy, this this teen has been twice
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  Speaker 3: involuntarily hospitalized under the under Florida's Baker Act.
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  Speaker 4: You know, you don't.
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  Speaker 3: You don't get involuntarily if you're not let out twice.
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  Speaker 3: And that's what I mean when I say the tragedy
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  Speaker 3: is compounded by negligence by the state. This teen should
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  Speaker 3: have been hospitalized, he should have been segregated from society,
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  Speaker 3: and yet this killer fish was put back into the
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  Speaker 3: tank twice.
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  Speaker 4: They knew he had violent tendencies.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, So Peter odom So when he comes out, when
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  Speaker 2: he walks out and he sees police, he says, oh,
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  Speaker 2: And this is after making a completely coherent nine to
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  Speaker 2: one one call, going my mom is bleeding from the neck.
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  Speaker 1: You need to come take care of her.
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  Speaker 2: And when he came out, he not only came out
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  Speaker 2: completely calm, cool and collected, he had the wherewithal to lie. Now,
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to go to our shrink, doctor Joy Crawlson
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  Speaker 2: in just a moment. But if you're crazy, why would
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  Speaker 2: you have the wherewithal, the knowledge, the coming to lie immediately?
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  Speaker 1: But wait, let's get the facts. First of all, listen
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  Speaker 1: to this.
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  Speaker 5: Catherine Valantez is just fifteen when she welcomes a baby
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  Speaker 5: with high school sweetheart Charles Griffith. A couple times that night,
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  Speaker 5: but stay close to home in Shawnee, Oklahoma, while Catherine
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  Speaker 5: earns a degree. Both parents worked to support the young family.
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  Speaker 5: Catherine as an online teacher for extra time with son Christopher.
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  Speaker 5: Seven years later, the couple welcome as a second child,
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  Speaker 5: and to keep the tradition of CG initials, they named
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  Speaker 5: the little boy Colin.
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  Speaker 2: She gives up everything in order to raise her children,
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  Speaker 2: even working online. This is the mom that was stabbed
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  Speaker 2: in the neck. This is the mom who covered for
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  Speaker 2: her son when he killed his father, telling authorities, oh,
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  Speaker 2: it was self defense, let him out because society couldn't
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  Speaker 2: believe a son would kill his dad, so they thought, hey,
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  Speaker 2: he must be mentally ill. But the way he came
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  Speaker 2: out of that house, Susan Hendrix tells me an altogether
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  Speaker 2: different story, joining me, journalist, investigative reporter, author of Down
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  Speaker 2: the Hill, My Descent into the double Murder in Delphi.
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  Speaker 2: Susan Hendricks joining us, Susan, tell me what happened when
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  Speaker 2: this young man comes out of the house and says,
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  Speaker 2: my mom's in there. She's bleeding from the neck, just
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  Speaker 2: as calm and.
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  Speaker 1: Cool, chilling.
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  Speaker 6: Not only what he said, what he didn't say. It's
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  Speaker 6: my mom come help immediately. No, I know my rights.
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  Speaker 6: I want an attorney. He knew exactly what he was doing.
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  Speaker 6: I feel like he's manipulated the system four years.
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  Speaker 2: And wait a minute, I knew he came out cool
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  Speaker 2: as a cucumber.
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  Speaker 1: I did not know.
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  Speaker 2: You just told me something new. He came out and said,
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  Speaker 2: I know my rights. I want a lawyer.
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  Speaker 1: Did you just say that? Is that correct?
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  Speaker 6: That's exactly what he said?
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  Speaker 1: Covered him wood.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, hold on, Peter Odom, the guy that
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  Speaker 2: you say is crazy comes out and looks the cops
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  Speaker 2: right in the face and goes, I know my rights.
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  Speaker 1: I want a long Nancy.
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  Speaker 3: Really crazy as your word, the law really doesn't use
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  Speaker 3: that word. He is mentally ill and there's really no
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  Speaker 3: question about that. He has been twice hospitalized. That means
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  Speaker 3: that he had to be proven by a preponderance of
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  Speaker 3: the evidence to be mentally ill enough that he was
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  Speaker 3: a danger to himself or others. So there's really no
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  Speaker 3: question that this team.
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  Speaker 2: When was he bakered, Let's find out when was he
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  Speaker 2: Baker act to Susan?
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  Speaker 1: When did he get bakerd.
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  Speaker 6: There are two dates that stand out to me. One
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  Speaker 6: was in September twenty twenty three. I know that he
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  Speaker 6: was held for seventy two hours. He made threats inside
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  Speaker 6: of that hole. During that hold. They kept him for
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  Speaker 6: an additional five days, eight days total. He said exactly
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  Speaker 6: what he was going to do. The prosecutor in Oklahoma
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  Speaker 6: was asked, you regret not charging him for the murder
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  Speaker 6: of his father. He said, no, it's impossible to predict
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  Speaker 6: someone's future behaviors. No, it's not not when they tell
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  Speaker 6: you and everyone around them what they're going to do.
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  Speaker 2: Didn't his Baker Act coincide with him stabbing his father?
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  Speaker 6: It did, but it seemed like he slipped through the cracks.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the second Baker Act, wasn't it when
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  Speaker 2: he attacked his mother in November?
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  Speaker 1: He killed his father Feb.
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  Speaker 2: Fourteen, Valentine's Day, twenty twenty three.
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  Speaker 1: He's bakered.
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  Speaker 2: In other words, you're putting a put in a mental
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  Speaker 2: facility and you're analyzed. They decide, hey, he's fine, we
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  Speaker 2: can let him go. He was put there because the
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  Speaker 2: system didn't know what else to.
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  Speaker 1: Do with him.
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  Speaker 2: Why else would he shoot his dad if he wasn't
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  Speaker 2: mentally ill? So they go test him. He's released then
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  Speaker 2: November twenty twenty three, he assaults his mother.
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  Speaker 1: He attacks her.
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  Speaker 2: Then he's bakered again because people think, well, why would
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  Speaker 2: you attack your mom? You must be mentally ill. Does
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  Speaker 2: that coincide with his baker acts?
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  Speaker 6: Susan, well, I think there's a lot of facets here.
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  Speaker 6: So he was held an additional time at the seventy
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  Speaker 6: two hour hold, but it's not a long term facility,
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  Speaker 6: so they were only able to keep him for a
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  Speaker 6: certain amount of times. He made threats there as well.
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  Speaker 6: He said, I did it before, I'll do it again.
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  Speaker 6: I'll throw her out of a car, I'll shoot her,
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  Speaker 6: I'll stab her. He said exactly what he was going
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  Speaker 6: to do. Sheriff Judd of Florida seems to be the
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  Speaker 6: only one that said, look, I held up a picture
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  Speaker 6: of him and say, you see a kid, I see
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  Speaker 6: a psychopath, as could have been prevented because of how
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  Speaker 6: many threats were made.
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  Speaker 2: Susan Hendrix of the teen boy that has killed not
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  Speaker 2: only his father but his mother too. This after she
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  Speaker 2: defends him and the death of the father gets him
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  Speaker 2: out of jail, he hates her. He goes back to
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  Speaker 2: live with her and she ends up deck can you
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  Speaker 2: tell me about the new car.
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  Speaker 6: Susan his twenty six thousand dollars he graduated from high
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  Speaker 6: school to me, never ever, ever do I blame the mother.
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  Speaker 6: It was her unconditional love though, and the forgiveness, and
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  Speaker 6: I think coddling. Maybe she felt guilt about the divorce.
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  Speaker 4: I don't know.
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  Speaker 6: Six thousand dollars card. They also went to Australia together.
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  Speaker 6: Nothing was enough, and according to Sheriff Judd of Florida,
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  Speaker 6: he said every time that he got I don't know,
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  Speaker 6: his phone taken away, something he didn't like, he.
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  Speaker 1: Killed a person.
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  Speaker 6: I don't even think I'm buying what he said. In fact,
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  Speaker 6: I'm not buying what he said about his father, that
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  Speaker 6: it was self defense, and the sheriff said, look, I'm
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  Speaker 6: sure of it. He would have killed the grandmother if
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  Speaker 6: he was living with her long term. He was dangerous
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  Speaker 6: that he was telling everyone around him what he planned
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  Speaker 6: on doing.
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  Speaker 2: Joining us behavioral expert, former FBI special agent, author of
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  Speaker 2: Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI agent's manual for behavior prediction,
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  Speaker 2: straight out to Robin Drake. Robin Drake, you're the behavioral expert.
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  Speaker 2: Help me out here, you hear Peter Odom, a veteran
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  Speaker 2: defense attorney who was once a homicide prosecutor, insisting, oh,
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  Speaker 2: it's just another sad story of mental illness. I don't
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  Speaker 2: think this guy is mentally ill.
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  Speaker 1: I think he keeps.
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  Speaker 2: Getting Baker acted, as it's called in Florida, Baker versus
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  Speaker 2: the state is a case when someone is forced to
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  Speaker 2: go for a mental evaluation. And when a son kills
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  Speaker 2: a father, or a son kills a mother, a child
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  Speaker 2: kills a parent, society thinks, oh gosh, they must be
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  Speaker 2: menley ill. Society doesn't want to think, well, they're an
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  Speaker 2: evil demon straight from hell. I want you to assess
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  Speaker 2: this drake.
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  Speaker 7: Evil demon straight from hell describes psychopathy, which is exactly
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  Speaker 7: what it looks like this kid is. And I do
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  Speaker 7: agree that he's got a life pattern, a life arc
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  Speaker 7: of trauma, of bad experiences, but that doesn't doesn't take
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  Speaker 7: away from his choice to kill people and kill his parents.
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  Speaker 7: Interesting with the mother, you know, and you said she
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  Speaker 7: covered for him, and he always then asks, so what
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  Speaker 7: inspe fired her to cover for him? And since some
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  Speaker 7: claims that the Daily Mail put out about the father
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  Speaker 7: being abusive to her for their twenty year marriage, I
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  Speaker 7: really wonder if she was trauma bonded to him as well,
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  Speaker 7: which allowed her and inspired her to cover for this
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  Speaker 7: abhorrent behavior that he had and to have him actually
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  Speaker 7: state he's going to do this act and everyone looked
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  Speaker 7: the other way, probably because she said it was okay.
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  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
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  Speaker 8: Now he's killed two people and killed his mother and father,
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  Speaker 8: and I can assure you beyond into the exclusion of
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  Speaker 8: every reasonable doubt based upon his conduct. Had he gone
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  Speaker 8: to live with his grandmother at the end of this
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  Speaker 8: and she crossed him, she would be next. He's violent,
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  Speaker 8: he's dangerous. He showed zero remorse, zero remorse.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Can we talk about the injuries to his mother, and
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  Speaker 2: by the way, that self defense ruling at the time
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  Speaker 2: he shot his father a year before he stabbed his
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  Speaker 2: mother dad, stabbing her multiple times in the neck, then
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  Speaker 2: lying about it that she fell on the knife. That
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  Speaker 2: case where the father was killed is now being reopened.
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  Speaker 1: Why anyone took.
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  Speaker 2: His word for it that it was self defense is
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  Speaker 2: a failure in investigation. It may turn out to be
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: self defense, but still that must be investigated before a
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  Speaker 2: case is just chalked off a self defense. Long story short,
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  Speaker 2: I want to go out to doctor Pria Banerjee and
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: determine what, if anything I can conclude from the stab
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  Speaker 2: wounds to mom's neck. Doctor Pria Banerjee, Board certified forensic
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  Speaker 2: pathologist and an atomic pathologist at Anchor Forensic Pathology. Doctor Priabantergy,
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  Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. I mean, if you
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  Speaker 2: want somebody dead in a hurry, you can stab them
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  Speaker 2: in the heart or the neck.
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  Speaker 1: Explain why, Yeah, you.
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  Speaker 9: Have vital structures in your neck, right, we all take
• 14:18
  Speaker 9: our pulse here. What does that mean? There's big blood
• 14:21
  Speaker 9: vessels that go up through your neck to your brain
• 14:23
  Speaker 9: and other parts of the body. So that's a very
• 14:26
  Speaker 9: easy access poit not much to go through and you
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  Speaker 9: can stab or cut through the vessels very quickly, especially
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  Speaker 9: with the kitchen knife.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I'm thinking about the Oh okay, there you
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  Speaker 2: have a twelve inch knife, a fixed blade knife that
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: was used very similar to the murder weapon in the
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Brian Coburger quadruple murder investigation.
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  Speaker 1: The difference in a fixed blade and.
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  Speaker 2: For instance, let's just say a folding knife, a pen knife,
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  Speaker 2: a scout knife, a Swiss arm they been, a fixed
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  Speaker 2: blade does not and very often you will see the
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: stab er, the perpetrator stab and their hand will go.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Down the blade.
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  Speaker 2: Peter odom and all your years of prosecuting and now
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: defending homicides, have you ever seen that happen?
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  Speaker 4: Oh? Absolutely, it happens frequently.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: It does happen frequently. I'm wondering if that was the
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: case here. But that said, I want to go now
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  Speaker 2: to doctor Jory Crasin, psychologist, faculty at Saint Leo University
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: and consultant with the Blue Wall Institute. Jumping off Dr
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Jory what doctor Priat just said. I've always contended and
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I've never really gotten a good answer from a shrink. Well,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: I've got an answers, but not an answer that satisfied me.
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  Speaker 2: I still say that there is a completely different psychopathy,
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  Speaker 2: a different mindset to someone that stabs their victim, as
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: opposed to, for instance.
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  Speaker 1: A sniper that shoots at a distance. You remember the
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: DC sniper. Let's see Malvo and.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: I'll think of it in a moment, the duo that was.
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  Speaker 1: Terrorizing the DC area.
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  Speaker 2: You shoot at a distance, it's like the people aren't
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: even real It's like an ant far far away, or
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: suffocating someone with a pillow you don't see their face.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: You just put the pillow over their head.
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  Speaker 1: They struggle, you hold them down, and it's all over.
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  Speaker 2: There's something about stabbing someone like Jody Arias for Pete's sake,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: what was that twenty plus stabs and then she shot
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: them in the head to cap it off.
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  Speaker 1: There's a different mindset. What about it, doctor Jory.
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  Speaker 10: Yeah, all the forms of attack take a different behavior pattern,
• 16:51
  Speaker 10: and with that you can look at the cognitive process
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  Speaker 10: and make assumptions from that. When you're dealing with extreme
• 16:58
  Speaker 10: violence like this, we have a thing called operational code analysis. Okay,
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  Speaker 10: it's outside of the typical diagnostic criteria. What it does
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  Speaker 10: is there's a code that they operate by as a methodology.
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  Speaker 10: It's you know, the modus operendi. And this individual, when
• 17:18
  Speaker 10: you look at his operational code, look at the duplication.
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  Speaker 11: Of the immediate exertion of rights. He did that with
• 17:26
  Speaker 11: his father, he did that with his mother, And just
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  Speaker 11: like Sheriff Grady Judge said, had grandmother been the third victim,
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  Speaker 11: he would have followed that same operational code. Within that,
• 17:39
  Speaker 11: you can see a lot of repeated behavior patterns and
• 17:44
  Speaker 11: from that you can make assumptions psychologically as to know
• 17:49
  Speaker 11: his cognitive process.
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  Speaker 2: Now I'm also looking for clues, clues as to what
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: really happened. I am not prepared to agree that this
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: teen son was mentally unstable, by far, not insane. Insane
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: under our jurisprudence means you don't know right from wrong
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: at the time of the incident. The fact that he
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: lied indicates to me he did know what he did
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: was wrong. But I want to talk for just one
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: moment about the mom's frame of mind. The mom's frame
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: of mind. Number one, We know that witnesses see him
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  Speaker 2: drag his mom out of the house by her hair
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: at four point thirty pm the Sunday. She was killed
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: later that evening. Why people didn't call nine to one
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: one then, I'm not sure, But there was tension going
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: back to what the sheriff said, going back to what
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: doctor Jory's said. Robin Drake, Robin Drake, if you notice
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: when he is disciplined, and I'm wondering if this is
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: going to make Peter Odom squirm in his seat. Whenever
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: he gets disciplined, there's a violent reaction. Susan Hendrix listened
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: because I want you to confirm or correct whatever I'm saying.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: I've got some of her last texts revealed. It says,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: if Colin texts you again, please tell me he needs
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: to come home.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: He's violating probation.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: He's supposed to be off October six, but now he
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: will never be.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Hello, there you go, Susan Hendrix.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: She is threatening to tell his probation officer he's violating
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: the terms of probation.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Now she's dead.
• 19:48
  Speaker 6: And I think that was at really her wits end,
• 19:51
  Speaker 6: meaning I've read some posts before that, and she spoke
• 19:54
  Speaker 6: about leaving his father and saying, after twenty plus years,
• 19:58
  Speaker 6: I should have done it earlier. And as your guest
• 20:00
  Speaker 6: mentioned earlier, as the doctor mentioned, there could have been
• 20:03
  Speaker 6: that trauma bond because in November of twenty twenty three,
• 20:06
  Speaker 6: her son was arrested for domestic violence against the mother.
• 20:10
  Speaker 6: Was it now the son that she had to deal with?
• 20:12
  Speaker 6: And it seemed like in that text that you read
• 20:15
  Speaker 6: she had had enough. But this went on over and
• 20:18
  Speaker 6: over again. The threats kept continuing. He said he was
• 20:22
  Speaker 6: going to do it over and over and I feel
• 20:24
  Speaker 6: like that mother was hoping that it wouldn't come true,
• 20:27
  Speaker 6: that he would change of course, trying to make it better.
• 20:30
  Speaker 6: And looking at those pictures right now on the screen
• 20:32
  Speaker 6: of mother and son, you would never know, You would
• 20:35
  Speaker 6: never know the smiles you can see, you.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Would never know showing looks Susan can be deceiving, Robin Drake.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: What the sheriff was pointing out earlier, of the Polk
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: County sheriff, that every time he's disciplined, he has a
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: violent reaction. Here Mom is saying he's violating his probation
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to report him this time. This is
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: not going to continue happening. Now she's dead. Robin Drake.
• 21:02
  Speaker 7: Yeah, he's fit in the behavior pattern that he's laid
• 21:05
  Speaker 7: out for himself. And what a what a dichotomy she
• 21:08
  Speaker 7: must have lived with in trying to be a mother
• 21:10
  Speaker 7: and a disciplinarian to raise him at the same time,
• 21:13
  Speaker 7: she's completely desensitized to the violence in her life and
• 21:17
  Speaker 7: not willing to take an action against it, both from
• 21:20
  Speaker 7: her husband at first and then from him, And that's
• 21:23
  Speaker 7: why she was covering for him and not believing and
• 21:26
  Speaker 7: having that hope which got her eventually killed because he
• 21:29
  Speaker 7: made a choice, Like you said, he is doing the
• 21:32
  Speaker 7: greatest evils on earth. And he's making a choice whether
• 21:35
  Speaker 7: he's got mental trauma or not. He's still making the
• 21:38
  Speaker 7: choice and very cognizant of that choice.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: That photo in the flower dress and him in the
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: yellow shirt, I believe that's the one that she shared
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: online just before she was murdered.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, Peter Odom.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: Every time he's going to have his phone taken away,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: or he's going to get in trouble, or he's going
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: to get reported for not following the rules, he has
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: a violent outburst.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Did you see the photo?
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: This could be me and John David.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: For Pete's sake. There they are.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Look, they were at Air and Space Museum. There's a graduation.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: She's taking him to DC. They're having all these fantastic
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: trips in good times.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: What why why you know?
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: Nancy, On the subject of mental illness, you mentioned that
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: that insanity means not knowing right from wrong, but it
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: can also mean something else that's very important in this case,
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: the inability to control one's behavior due to mental illness.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: This represents a massive failure by the state to keep
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: this kid, you know, in a hospital. I mean, let's
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: say that there were red flags flapping all over the
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: place and everybody ignored them. This teenager did exactly what
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: he said he was going to do. He said he
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: was going to kill his mother and they and they
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: released him and they put him back with his mother.
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: I just don't understand how how the government.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: They they they you're you're using all ten of your
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: fingers to point at everybody else.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: The system did it. They did it. It's always they.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: He is the one. And what what you just said?
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: That doesn't make me feel any more warm and fuzzy tour.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: He was this guy, he was on the rail that
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: he said, I'm gonna kill my mom.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, he said it.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: That means planning an intent to me.
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: He said it to authorities.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: They knew that he was going to and he had
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: killed his father under suspicious circumstances, and they ignored it,
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: and they put him back out into society. That should
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: not have happened. This was preventable.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Now Mom is dead.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Joining me A dear friend of mom, Catherine Griffith Eric
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Reyes is joining us, mister Rays, thank you for.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Being with us.
• 23:50
  Speaker 12: It's good to be here, Nancy.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Mister Rays, when did you learn that Catherine had been killed?
• 23:55
  Speaker 12: I learned the day after it occurred that she was
• 24:00
  Speaker 12: she was killed, and unfortunately it was not a big surprise.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: It's just hard for me to take in this.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Mom did everything she could to help her son, got
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: him out of trouble.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: I believe, covered for him when he.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Shot his dad a year before, gave him a brand
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: new car, got him through school, was at his beck
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: and call.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Yet he turned on her.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Tell me your understanding of their relationship.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: You say you're not surprised, No.
• 24:33
  Speaker 12: I am not. She did do everything for him. They
• 24:36
  Speaker 12: want to and cruises. In fact, they just got back
• 24:39
  Speaker 12: from Chris, like only two or three days after, I
• 24:42
  Speaker 12: mean before she was killed. And she would help him
• 24:46
  Speaker 12: with school because she was a school teacher. She provided
• 24:49
  Speaker 12: a car, he had a job, he was getting counseling.
• 24:53
  Speaker 12: So she did everything she could as a loving mother
• 24:58
  Speaker 12: to help him, and she did everything she possibly could. Unfortunately,
• 25:01
  Speaker 12: of course it wasn't enough.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Derek, What would she tell you about her son?
• 25:06
  Speaker 12: She did say that he had threatened to kill her.
• 25:10
  Speaker 12: She told that, I mean he told that to law enforcement,
• 25:13
  Speaker 12: He told that to everybody. I tried to convince her
• 25:16
  Speaker 12: and said, hey, you can't live together. Try to help him.
• 25:20
  Speaker 12: It's not safe and my concern. I got involved because
• 25:22
  Speaker 12: she was a victim of the battery last year, and
• 25:25
  Speaker 12: he battered her when he was a juvenile. I said,
• 25:28
  Speaker 12: you can't, you can't live together. But she, you know,
• 25:33
  Speaker 12: she wanted everything to help. It was like an undying
• 25:35
  Speaker 12: mother's love and unfortunately cost her her life. But she
• 25:39
  Speaker 12: won't listen to me. She won't listen to law enforcement
• 25:42
  Speaker 12: because she was when she was trying to help him.
• 25:44
  Speaker 12: And of course she loved Colin very much.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Why did he hate his mother so much?
• 25:50
  Speaker 12: I don't know for sure. I believe he was abused
• 25:54
  Speaker 12: by the father years ago in Oklahoma. She was out
• 25:59
  Speaker 12: of the picture of time. I think she was abused
• 26:01
  Speaker 12: as well, so she's sort of for self preservation. Wasn't
• 26:06
  Speaker 12: in Oklahoma, so I'm speculating. But perhaps he somehow blamed
• 26:10
  Speaker 12: her because she didn't intervene or try to stop the
• 26:15
  Speaker 12: father from abusing him. That's my best guess here.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Did she ever reveal she thought he hated her?
• 26:23
  Speaker 12: No, she did say that he's trying to kill her,
• 26:25
  Speaker 12: and he did, of course batter her, but she never
• 26:28
  Speaker 12: said that she thought Colin hated her. I mean they
• 26:31
  Speaker 12: were having fun on their cruises. I saw some of
• 26:35
  Speaker 12: the videos on social media. They seemed like they were
• 26:37
  Speaker 12: enjoying themselves. He was smiling, she was laughing. So as
• 26:41
  Speaker 12: far as that goes, no, I don't think enemy knew
• 26:44
  Speaker 12: he hated her at all.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Eric Rayes, did you say that she was murdered just
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: three days after they come home from her taking him
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: on a cruise.
• 26:57
  Speaker 12: Yeah, she was soburning her birthday on the cruises round
• 27:01
  Speaker 12: Labor Day, and only a couple of days after that
• 27:05
  Speaker 12: when he killed her. And it's like, it's horrible.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: So he was perfectly fine on the cruise. Mom's taking
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: videos of her son having a great time on port
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: adventures on the.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Ship, laughing, no problem.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: But then as soon as she tries to discipline him
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: when they get back home, he kills her.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: How can I don't understand how.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: That can be mentally ill when you're perfectly fine as
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: long as everything is going your way, and then when
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: it doesn't go your way, you become.
• 27:40
  Speaker 12: Violent, exactly. And again he had threatened to kill her before.
• 27:44
  Speaker 12: He wasn't doing his chores, so I think she tried
• 27:47
  Speaker 12: to discipline him by taking his phone away or his
• 27:50
  Speaker 12: ability to play video games, and that's I guess that's
• 27:54
  Speaker 12: when he snapped.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, guys, you are hearing Eric Ray is joining us.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: A dear friend of now deceased Catherine Griffith. Tell me
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: about Catherine. I read all about her. I interview witnesses,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: but no one can tell give me a picture of
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: who Catherine was.
• 28:14
  Speaker 7: Well.
• 28:14
  Speaker 12: She was a loving mother, and she was a great teacher.
• 28:18
  Speaker 12: She was a teacher here in Charlotte County, Florida. She
• 28:22
  Speaker 12: loved her students. I think the students really liked her,
• 28:26
  Speaker 12: and she enjoyed teaching. And she was a friend to
• 28:29
  Speaker 12: a lot of her students. And of course she was
• 28:31
  Speaker 12: a mother to Collins. She seemed very happy, she was smiling.
• 28:36
  Speaker 12: I first got involved represented in the you know, the
• 28:38
  Speaker 12: juvenih Linksky case, but then we became friends and we
• 28:41
  Speaker 12: would talk, you know, on the phone a lot. And
• 28:44
  Speaker 12: she was just a loving, giving person.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: Guys, you are hearing Eric Ray is joining us. A
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: dear friend of now deceased Catherine Griffith. Tell me about Catherine.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: I read all about her. I interview witnesses, but no
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: one can tell give me a picture of who Catherine was.
• 29:19
  Speaker 7: Well.
• 29:20
  Speaker 12: She was a loving mother, and she was a great teacher.
• 29:23
  Speaker 12: She was a teacher here in Charlotte County, Florida. She
• 29:28
  Speaker 12: loved her students. I think the students really liked her,
• 29:31
  Speaker 12: and she enjoyed teaching. And she was a friend to
• 29:34
  Speaker 12: a lot of her students. And of course she was
• 29:37
  Speaker 12: a mother to Collins. She seemed very happy, she was smiling.
• 29:42
  Speaker 12: I first got involved represented in the you know, the
• 29:44
  Speaker 12: juvenah Linsky case, but then we became friends and we
• 29:46
  Speaker 12: would talk, you know, on the phone a lot. And
• 29:49
  Speaker 12: she was just a loving, giving person.
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: A heated argument unpolds outside the Griffins home, where witnesses
• 29:59
  Speaker 5: say they saw seventeen year old Griffith drag his mother
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: by her hair into the home. A short time later,
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: a nine to one one call is placed. Griffith's mother is.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Dead and that's him.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: The son, Colin Griffith, calling nine to one one, completely calm,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: comes out of the house when police arrive and says
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: she fell on the knife. The phenomena of children killing
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: their parents, we all remember a thirteen year old little
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: boy actually described as timid, an honor student, seemingly angry
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: his mom had another child, a baby girl.
• 30:40
  Speaker 9: Listen where else did you stop her old then catting
• 30:44
  Speaker 9: her neck?
• 30:44
  Speaker 12: Where is your sister?
• 30:47
  Speaker 13: She's in her grip sleeping.
• 30:49
  Speaker 9: How old is your sister?
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: She's only a week old?
• 30:55
  Speaker 12: Okay, and you did not touch her?
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Correct?
• 30:58
  Speaker 9: No, I did not touch you.
• 30:59
  Speaker 8: I don't want to such my sister.
• 31:01
  Speaker 9: I need to know if your mom is age breathing.
• 31:04
  Speaker 13: She said, I have the.
• 31:07
  Speaker 12: Gun with me.
• 31:08
  Speaker 13: I was gonna shoot myself, but I didn't want to.
• 31:10
  Speaker 8: I didn't want to. I pulled back to the side.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: But I did not see perfectly coherent, perfectly sane, angry,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: we believe, are frustrated because his mom has a baby
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: girl with the step dad. Straight back out to veteran
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: trial lawyer or now defense attorney with a high profile
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: defense team at Price Benowitz in d C. Peter Odem
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: former homicide prosecutor. Did you hear that teen boy, just thirteen, calm,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: coherent describing stabbing his mother in the neck, just like
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Colin Griffith Nancy.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: One thing we have to remember about children, particularly teenagers,
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: is that they have zero impulse control. You know, at
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: seventeen years old, At thirteen years old, one's brain isn't
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: really even fully formed. I'm sure any of the psychologists
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: that are on your show would would agree with that.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: There are two things that the criminal justice system doesn't
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: do well. We just haven't gotten correct yet. One of
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: them is juveniles. We don't know how to deal with
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: juveniles in the criminal justice system, and also the mentally ill,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: we don't know exactly how to deal with them. In
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: this case, in the Colin Griffith case, we have both
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: those failures brought into sharp relief. This was a teenager,
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: a juvenile in the eyes of the law, though he's
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: being treated as an adult, and a person that has
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: twice been hospitalized for significant mental health problems. It's really
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: no wonder that this happened. He did exactly what he said.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: He was hereater.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: You keep saying he was hospitalized because of mental health problems.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: He was baker acted because of violence at home, one
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: of those being shooting his dad. So our system, you're right,
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: doesn't I know exactly what to do because it automatic assumes, Wow,
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: that kid must be crazy, must be insane, who would.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Hurt their parent.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: But as you heard Derek Rossa, who was speaking calmly
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: and was simply frustrated, his mom was sleeping with step
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: dad and had a baby. He had been the only
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: child for so long. You, Peter Odom, left with no alternative.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: You first claim mental instability, then the system can't deal
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: with it. Then you say, and the system can't deal
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: with jeeveniles that kill all Right now, in desperation, you
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: merge the two, and you're throwing me a hybrid defense
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: of the system can't handle a jevenile that kills, and
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: the system doesn't know how to handle mentley ill. Correction,
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: the system has been dealing with the menley ill for decades.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: That's why uh Andrea Yates is still behind bars for
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: killing all of her children because she's mentally ill.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: According to some experts.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: This young man responded with violence every time he was disciplined. Peter,
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: do you not see the difference in this?
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: All the criminal justice system can do, Nancy, is to
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: punish and incarcerate, And when we're dealing with true mental illness,
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: that's not what's required treatment, hospitalization, medication, et cetera. So
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: I guess you and I can just disagree on whether
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: our criminal justice system deals well or appropriately with the
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: mentally ill. I deal with mentally ill clients all the time,
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: and our system simply can't appropriately deal with them because
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: punishment and incarceration are not getting at the root of
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: the problem.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Well, you may be right, I don't disagree that our
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: system is hamstrung. There's snake bit because a lot of people,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: such as drug and alcohol addicts, they need help, not
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: just jail. I think they should have jail and help.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: So I agree with you to an extent, But the
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: crux of what I'm arguing is I'm not convinced Colin
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Griffith was mentally insane or delusional. He seemed to know
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: exactly what he was doing. Here's another example, Tyler Hadley,
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: who killed his parents because they were trying to get
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: him in rehab.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Listen, it's kind of learning, it kind of good.
• 35:13
  Speaker 13: Someone had a party tonight and someone reported that this
• 35:18
  Speaker 13: could have killed their parents. He told me that the
• 35:21
  Speaker 13: kid tap up and he was like, uh. He told
• 35:24
  Speaker 13: me like he told me that like the gift of it,
• 35:27
  Speaker 13: that he did something to his parents, and I was like, bro,
• 35:30
  Speaker 13: I don't want to know any details. He said he
• 35:32
  Speaker 13: already called and reported everything to crimestoppers. I was just
• 35:35
  Speaker 13: calling because I felt like I needed to.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: In the case of Tyler Hadley, he was angry because
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: his parents wanted him to get help with addiction, and
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: he didn't want to.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: He wanted to.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Have a big party at the house where there were
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: there was booze and drugs.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: They didn't want him to have the party, so he
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: killed them.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: I'm seeing doctor Jory Crausen, a psychologist. A lot of
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: responses inappropriate and uncontrolled responses to stimuli such as mom
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: having a baby with stepdad, or mom saying you can't
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: have a party, or some other reasons.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Some other discipline, such as in.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: The current case where mom took away video games or
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: mom threatened to call probation, and that uncontrolled response is
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: violence is murder. That does not equal mental disturbance or insanity,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: doctor Jory, when.
• 36:35
  Speaker 14: You're dealing with a violent person, that doesn't necessarily mean
• 36:39
  Speaker 14: that they are you have a mental illness. We could
• 36:42
  Speaker 14: fit them into a diagnosis, but an aggressive violent personality
• 36:48
  Speaker 14: and they respond inappropriate like this young man did, it's
• 36:53
  Speaker 14: outside the realm of treatment. You have to then here
• 36:57
  Speaker 14: in Florida with the Baker Act, we kind of then
• 36:59
  Speaker 14: move it into the criminal justice system. Just like he
• 37:02
  Speaker 14: was on probation, he violated that probation, then they would
• 37:06
  Speaker 14: come and lock him up to protect his mother. The
• 37:09
  Speaker 14: mother you know, god lover, she's really demonstrated motherly love,
• 37:15
  Speaker 14: but she really wasn't a neutral person to protect herself
• 37:20
  Speaker 14: from him.
• 37:21
  Speaker 8: Twelfth of February in twenty twenty four, he has an
• 37:28
  Speaker 8: argument with his mother and he runs away from Charlotte
• 37:32
  Speaker 8: County and comes back to Auburndale to his grandmother's house.
• 37:37
  Speaker 8: Now his grandmother's not there. The grandmother said, hey, we
• 37:42
  Speaker 8: don't feel safe with him around. So our deputies, who
• 37:46
  Speaker 8: found him up here as a missing person's reported in
• 37:49
  Speaker 8: Charlotte County, turned him over to DCF.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: You are hearing Paul County sheer of Grady Judd and more.
• 37:56
  Speaker 8: Two days later, on the fourteenth of February, the end
• 38:00
  Speaker 8: anniversary of him killing his dad a year ago, he's
• 38:05
  Speaker 8: reunited with his mother by DCF. Colin made the statement
• 38:12
  Speaker 8: that I don't want to go home. I'll use any
• 38:16
  Speaker 8: force necessary to avoid it, to include killing my mother.
• 38:20
  Speaker 8: So that's the second time he threatened to kill his mother.
• 38:23
  Speaker 8: So they didn't make him go home on the fourteenth,
• 38:25
  Speaker 8: but about two weeks later, in March twenty twenty four,
• 38:30
  Speaker 8: they reunite Colin with his mother again, everybody's calmed down.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Peter Hudham is correct.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: He warned everyone he was going to kill his mother,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: very calmly and very coherently, which in my mind rules
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: out a mental illness.
• 38:44
  Speaker 8: And then list say, September sixth, Colin has an argument
• 38:50
  Speaker 8: about home chores and he flees from his mother's house
• 38:55
  Speaker 8: again and comes up to his grandmother's house. Grandmother's not there.
• 39:00
  Speaker 8: Mom calm lets the event calm down, and she tells
• 39:04
  Speaker 8: her son, Hey, you need to come home, and she
• 39:09
  Speaker 8: asked him to come home and faces responsibility. Collins says,
• 39:14
  Speaker 8: I'm not coming back home. That was September seventh.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Robin Drake behavior analysts formally with the FBI weigh in, Yeah, what.
• 39:21
  Speaker 7: We see here is so predominantly just not with his case,
• 39:25
  Speaker 7: but all the other case you mentioned. It's a lack
• 39:27
  Speaker 7: of control. Every time he has a lack of control
• 39:30
  Speaker 7: in his life, he's going from zero to murder. And
• 39:34
  Speaker 7: it's like he said, and everyone else has been saying,
• 39:36
  Speaker 7: it's so predictable, and it's this lack of ability to
• 39:40
  Speaker 7: solve problems in a healthy way, which has also been mentioned.
• 39:44
  Speaker 7: It's exactly what happened here is zero to one hundred
• 39:46
  Speaker 7: when he loses control and murder his his escape route.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: Doctor Priya Banerjee joining a sports certified pathologist, Doctor Priya
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: how long would mom have lain in the floor, bleeding
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: out with her son towering over her before she died?
• 40:03
  Speaker 9: Very quickly, So I just want to say, two wounds.
• 40:06
  Speaker 9: You don't fall on a knife and create two wounds
• 40:10
  Speaker 9: and you're going to injure again major blood vessels. So
• 40:14
  Speaker 9: I would say within seconds to a minute or two.
• 40:17
  Speaker 9: It's very short.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Susan Hendricks, what's next? You know, it's just horrific.
• 40:22
  Speaker 6: The system failed the mother and her last post is eerie.
• 40:25
  Speaker 6: It's lyrics from Taylor Swift saying sometimes giving up is
• 40:28
  Speaker 6: the strong thing. No one was there to help her.
• 40:32
  Speaker 6: Of course he isn't getting out now, but it's too
• 40:34
  Speaker 6: late for the moment.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: We wait as just a sun falls. Goodbye friend,