Latest / Surviving-ISH Podcast / He didn't hit me, so that isn't domestic violence, right? WRONG!

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He didn't hit me, so that isn't domestic violence, right? WRONG! · Surviving-ISH Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I don't understand why it was me.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I'll ever be the same.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Is the same what I?
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: want.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Anyway, you took what I thought I could never get back.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: I quit holding on to that anger and broke down just to begin again.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: I'm there, I'm a love.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Hi David, how are you?
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Oh, good, good, I'm glad I'm you too, because I'm going to get to see a little bit of a different side of you.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: We talk about true crime on our Zoom calls, but we're talking about a certain kind of case, and so to have this time with you and to have you trust me and my platform enough to say you know what?
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: I've never done a podcast before, but let's do it, it's such a true honor.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and, as you said, we're all friends In this space with a lot of us.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: It's a short snippet of what's going on in our day to day life, so getting to go more in depth with a friend, how do you say now to it?
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: My question for you to start is how did you get inspired with true crime?
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: When I was younger I don't know if I was maybe in fifth grade-ish, but not quite middle school, but not quite elementary age I remember I started reading a book series by James Patterson Alex Cross series, and, starting from the first book, I couldn't put it down.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: I just I couldn't put it down.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: And so my mom would always take me to the library To just keep getting the next book in the series.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: And at the time I can't remember how many books there were in the series, because there's been more since, but let's just say there's ten.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: And I read them in one summer and these books, if you've read them, are.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know why my mom ever allowed me to read these books, because they're a little intense.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: And to me that's the first recollection that I have of true crime.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: And I'm also from Wisconsin, and if anybody knows anything about Wisconsin out there, I'm sure everybody could rattle off a few names of infamous true crime stories that have taken place in Wisconsin.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: So that's just always been I don't know part of the culture.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: And then when I was in college I was just finishing college, that's what it was that's when I found the various true crime podcasts that I listened to.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: So that's my relationship to true crime and how I got interested.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: And it was.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: It just was always there and it started out with me reading these books and I could just power through them one by one and I honestly don't get it, but it's just always been there.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: The first true crime high profile case I remember is the Susan Smith case, and I'm pretty sure there's a bit of an age gap between us Like you're like 20 and I'm 26.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: You may not know what I'm talking about, but Susan Smith is a lady that was on and off again with her husband and baby daddy and was having a love interest affair with the owner of the company that she worked for and she drowned her children in her car.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Do you know what case I'm talking about?
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Not in depth details, but I know the high level.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: And so of course, she wanted to say, oh, a black man did it?
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Come to find out?
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: She did it and she was one of the first cases.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: That was like the high profile, like mother's gone mad, kind of thing, and I was at the age where I was able to comprehend more than so.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: I probably should not have been in the living room when the news was on that day.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: And because I went through this whole phase of is my mom going to do this to me, she is going to potentially be released in 2025, because she's done her like 35 years or whatever.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: She was not, they were babies like she was shown.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: She was in her 20s and it's been 30 years and, like I, just I remember that case and that is what really got me interested in helping me realize that there really are monsters under your bed.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: With your interest in your crime and reading these books, when did you start associating that with your own trauma?
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: I knew what was going on and what was happening.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I just didn't really have the confidence to say it wasn't okay, this was bad, and to add that distance of it doesn't matter, you didn't do anything, you know if that's the right way to put it.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: The true crime portion made it seem to me of, yes, you have these horrible, awful stories that are unimaginable, but then you also have some stories where you can say these small things that happened were also not okay.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: So it was those small things that led me to go.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: I can feel bad and not wallow in self pity, but I can say, yes, this happened, it was not okay, and I can grow and move on.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: So did the true crime aspects out of things?
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: Was that kind of validation for you of okay, this does happen to people like it's okay for me to fill these things?
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, especially because of the particular podcast.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: I think about Ellen and as she jokes on the podcast oh, I'm monologuing again and it made me realize that it's the small things that matter and it's okay to feel those feelings.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: You are valid.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if somebody else tells you you're not valid.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: If you feel those, you feel them.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: I think about Ellen quite a bit honestly, to how she quote, unquote monologues and how it's yes, you're saying what I'm feeling and thinking, thank you.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, 100%.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: I actually taxed her the other day and I was like those monologues help me realize that I'm not alone in this crazy ass feeling that I'm having right now, and I need that.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: I need that validation, I need those moments of realizing that I'm not alone.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: Do you mind to us the age that you were when your trauma happened and what the trauma actually was?
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Sure, this was back in, I want to say 2016.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: So I was I think I was 18 when I met my boyfriend at the time.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Obviously, we're no longer together.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: I was a sophomore in college and classic story of how we met good old internet online dating for younger people and I think at the time when we started dating he was a 24, 25, so he was a little older than I was, and so we started dating and I think we I remember like one of our first two dates was like a Halloween party.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: So somewhere around that time is when we started dating.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: And, of course, you're young, everything's new, fresh.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: So the rose colored glasses were very rose colored.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: The first time, I think was probably that December, because he had family living in the South, like Georgia, south Carolina area, and we went down there and I'll admit nobody, please do that, please don't go on a cross country trip with a guy you'd only been dating for two months.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: But we grow, we learn, and I was meeting some of his family for the first time and his stepdad berated me at dinner and he was like you need to prove to me that you love him.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: You don't need to prove anything to him, it's me you have to prove to yourself too.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: And that was the first time when I was like this is odd and strange, because I don't know you, we hadn't even said I love you yet together.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: So I have to prove.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I don't even know who's going anywhere.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: And so then in late January February is when he started showing some anger signs that I had never seen before in a intimate relationship like that.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: So he was coming to visit me when I was in college and there was like this big conference that my degree program had and we're at like this closing reception and because I was underage but it was hell of a bar, because it was like a conference reception, so it was a little looser on the rules and I was like all of my friends from my degree program are here, just come meet us, we'll hang out.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: And he did, and we were hanging out with my friends and I don't know if what his emotions were, but we were talking about things in our degree program, so a little niche kind of topics that he couldn't really enter the conversation with.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: So I don't know if maybe that made him feel bad or insecure, I can't speculate.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: And then we were on our way back to my apartment, which was pretty much right across the street, and as we were getting into his truck I realized, oh, he's mad, he's like really mad.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: And I don't know if it was because he felt insecure or if we were out too late, and he ended up punching the steering wheel of his truck over and over and over again until his knuckles bled.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: And he drove a ram truck, so the emblem on the steering wheel was like the ram head and it was protruding.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: So he's just punching the steering wheel over and I'm just like jaw on the floor.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: What do you say?
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: What do you not say?
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: And I just remember going back to the apartment and trying to like we're going to bed period, so then we just shut it down from there.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: But I'm like yeah, I'm 19 and these rose colored glasses work pretty well, so we just move past it, whatever.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Over that first red flag right.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: Of course, why would you ever pay attention to the first red flag, and especially at 19 or 18, whatever I was.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: So things had been good for about I don't know, a year-ish, two years I think it was around two years where we ended up living together.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: After a year Things were pretty good and then, like clockwork, I had a gut feeling and I'm a big believer in trust or good and I did the thing that you're not supposed to do when I looked at this phone and of course I found exactly what I was looking for, because the tail is oldest time and of course I ended up confronting him about it that night and I remember that his first question was so you looked through my phone and I just looked at him and I said, yep, I did.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: We can loop back to that, but this is what we're talking about right now.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: And looking back now, I'm like, ooh, you clocked that girl.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: You can own up to your mistake.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: If you want to call it a mistake, I don't.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: But I don't either.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: I feel like when, even when you jump over those red flags, like we had said, there's still that part of you.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: I have no desire to look through my partner's phone.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: I have zero desire.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: It's the minute that there's a red flag.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: The first thing I'm going to is his phone.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean the moment that your brain and body remembers that feeling.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: So no, I don't call that a mistake.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: No, and I just can look back and like that phrasing of owning up to what you did and saying we can loop back to that, but we're not going to distract from what we found.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: And if you want to loop it back to, like my true crime podcast that's something that Ellen talks about a lot of do, I dare say, starving the narcissist, not saying that he was or anything, but saying we can handle both at once.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: But we got the first issue first and then we can loop back.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: And I know part of my problem at that point was we were living together in an apartment and I was in college and he was working full time.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: He did not attend that college and I was like I can't afford to move out at this point, I can't do it.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: So part of me then was like we can work through this, we can insert all of the rationale here.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: I went through it.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: That happened over the summer and then that fall he looked at me when he's hey, let's go to the jewelry store and let's go look at like engagement rings and I'm like sure, great, love it, love it.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: And we go, and then the whole time he's the football game is coming on in an hour.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: We have to keep going.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: The football game is coming on in 45 minutes.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: We've got to be going.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: The football game is coming on in a half hour, we've got to get going.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: And I now, looking back, I'm like you're the one that wanted to go and now you're rushing it.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Very little seriously and I'll loop back to this a little later but it was just like so weird, honestly.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: But part of me was also like great.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: So he sees, engagement, da-da-da-da-da.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, great, we're headed in the right direction after the speed bump, right.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: So then it was a few months later.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: We had decided that we were going to move from the apartment we were staying in to town hall.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: And before we did that, there was a night.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: He was going to go to the bar after work with some of his coworkers for a drink, and I said just keep me like posted for dinner.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: If you're going to eat there, that's fine, just let me know so that I can provide food for myself.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: And then I didn't hear anything for a while.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: And then he finally texted and was like oh sorry, yeah, I had a burger at the bar or whatever, but I'll pick something up for you on the way home.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, finally she's recognizing that that was crappy to do.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: After I specifically told you I don't care, just let me know.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: And he stopped at a convenience store in LA home.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: He got me a bowl of the pre-made mac and cheese and a bacon wrapped like little steak thing.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: And that was so deflating to me because I hate pre-made mac and cheese and I don't really care for bacon wrapped meats because to me the bacon always seems undercooked.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: So when he brought that home for me I was so dejected because I'm like it's been like two, two and a half years and you don't know anything about me.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: And then, to make up for him pissing me off a little bit, that night, he bought me lilies to make up for it and that sent me over the edge because, one, I don't care for lilies.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: They're like one of my least favorite flowers.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: I used to work at a florist so I was very passionate about that.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: And two, I have a cat and lilies are very poisonous to cats.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't know that.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I was just like in the Easter lilies not good for cats, and so I was just like, so, to make up for you, not knowing anything about me, you proceed to buy flowers.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: That I notoriously.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: And it was like, honestly, I can't felt I've ever had an inflated balloon and then just let it go and it just like flies all over the room until it falls on the ground, flat and sad.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, that was me, this sad balloon just flying through the air.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: And then we moved to this town home and we were approaching three years at this point together and this is where it all really fell apart.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: And it got to the point where I knew it was over.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: He knew it was over.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: And finally I got the text we should talk when you get home from work, right, the infamous text.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: And we break up.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: I'm devastated.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: He seems to be fine.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Come to find out later he was still cheating, so of course he's fine.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: And then at that point he was working like three hours away during the week, and then we come home on the weekends and I had graduated college at that point, so I was just going to work every day and coming home, and so the living arrangement was like give me a few weeks so I can get my stuff together, excuse me and move back home with my mom so I can find arrangements then, because she lived about an hour and 15 minutes away.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: And then on the weekends I would go stay with my mom so we could have the townhouse and it would be fine.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: And then there was one Saturday morning it was just a week, maybe two weeks, after we had broken up and I was frying bacon in the morning, she walks in.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: And that morning, on our rental portal thing, I had gotten a notice that we had an overdue bill and it was like 200, some odd dollars.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: And I got really upset and I just paid it.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: And so when he got home I was like, hey, do you know anything about this bill?
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: It's 200, some dollars.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I just paid it.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: And he snapped nearly immediately.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: He was like we got a letter about it.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Why didn't you read the letter?
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: He had it with him, so I couldn't read this letter that they apparently said it's a mistake, don't worry about it, or I don't know what it said even now.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: We got into a little bit of an arguing match back and forth and I remember he is holding like a plastic grocery bag and you like threw it to the ground and kicked it and I don't know if you've ever tried to kick like an empty grocery bag, but it does nothing which just pissed him off more.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: And so he turned to the wall next to him and just started punching the wall over and over and for some reason I was like, oh crap, this is, this is like for real.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: And so I scooped up my cat, we like ran into the bedroom and locked the door and I heard him getting his truck and speed away.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: And then I picked up the phone to call my mom and once she answered, all I got out was because I was crying so bad and my mom was just like I'm on my way.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: She just knew instantly At that point I was already freaked out, whatever.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: And my mom took her like I don't know 10 minutes to get in the car and head out, and during that time he had come back to the house and was like pounding on the door to the bedroom to let him in, and I did for whatever reason, I don't know why.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: To this day, but as he's standing there, my mom calls me back to say I'm on the road or something, and this is blurry, to be honest.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: But he's standing in front of me and I'm on the phone with my mom and I don't want to say anything to like either one of them, because I'm afraid of what he's going to do and my mom is going to ask about my safety and the only thing I remember is saying yep, no yep to my mom and eventually she says do you need me to call the police?
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: And that was the longest it feels like to me being like she knows that I'm a chatty cafe and so me just saying yep, no, something is the short answers say a lot.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: And so once I got off the phone with my mom, he also realized what was going on and was like, do I need to leave?
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: And I said, for your own safety, I think you should, because my mom, she loves her children.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: If he was there I'm sure she would have let him know what she thought of the situation.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: So anyway, yes, my mom comes and we pack up as much as we can.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: She takes my cat.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: I want to make sure he's good and did I think I went home with her that weekend.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Honestly, that whole weekend is a blur.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: But that following Monday, I drove two hours to work because I was living like 45 minutes from where I worked and on the opposite side from where my mom lived.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: And I went into work that day and I sat down with my bosses and I was like, listen, some stuff happened.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: I got to go and they just these were two men.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, but they were two men and they just did not understand what I was trying to say.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: And then the kind of like the mom of the employees, of my coworkers.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: That day at lunch I noticed I was acting weird and she, oh she literally pulled me off to the side of lunch and was like, how hard did he hit you?
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: And I didn't say anything to her and I was just like oh, when she asked me that, because it was just like that mom, mother, literally intuition that she had, and she just told me, like I'll explain to the guys, you don't have to worry about it.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: So I'll always be thankful to her that she just she got it.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: And then I did work the rest of that week because I'm like they were totally fine if I wanted to just quit, but I'm like, no, like it's fine, I don't want to leave.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: You guys had my pride took over.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: But that rest of the week he was working three hours away, like I had mentioned, and every night when I would go to bed I had to lock the bedroom door, sleep with the overhead lights on, and that townhouse had the the bedroom right over the garage and I swore I could feel like the garage door opening, like whenever the fridge turns on or whatever, and it'd be like, and every time a car drove by I would have a mini panic attack.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: So every single time I was like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Eventually I went into the guest bedroom and it was totally fine because I was away from the road, I was not over the garage anymore and it was just like I could feel peace.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: And then, once I removed myself from that, I got a lot better and I ended up buying a house and I got a good job and like things fell into place for me.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: And now we bring ourselves to 2022, the summer of 2022.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: I'm like I'm gonna try therapy.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: I think that'll be good for me, and a few sessions into this therapist, I'm revisiting this conversation and just revisiting the thing of I never thought this would happen to me.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: It really taught me.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: That whole conversation and I'm relaying this whole story to her, and this therapist, via Zoom, essentially looked at me and was like I don't know why you got so upset.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: It's not like he hit you or anything.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: And at that moment I was healed enough in my journey to say no, nope, we're not doing that.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: So I never went back to her anything, but the more I thought about it, I got mad, because there are people out there that are not that healed in their journey and if they hear that, it's so crushing and invalidating.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: I'm sure to hear.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: So what, you were scared, yeah.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: That makes me so mad Because it encouraged me.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: If I'm wrong, but I feel like when you and I were having a conversation about this, I feel like there was a conversation we had about this how much, what do you and your show consider surviving trauma?
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Because what if mine doesn't fit into that category, kind of thing.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: And I let you know immediately that we cannot judge what happened to me as a worse has happened to me and vice versa, and but we didn't go into detail why.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: And so when you started telling the story, I was like, ah, that's what happened.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: This person, that you were trusting this person, that you were all taught to your therapist.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: You have this title.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: We're supposed to believe you were supposed to trust you, but you're telling me that my trauma isn't trauma because I didn't have a black eye.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's me so mad because that is not true.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: So I'm so glad that you are here, and one thing that I kept thinking about, like throughout our conversation, with just a little bit that I knew, is I've had people, so many people, reach out to me and say my trauma doesn't touch yours, so I shouldn't feel this way.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: No, that's not the case.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: One of the reasons I was so excited about having you on is because, for those people that feel like their trauma doesn't matter, regardless of the site because I've had people that have been stabbed and have said my trauma doesn't matter because it was just a puncture wound, I don't care, I don't care.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: That's horrifying.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: We cannot compare that, and so I'm glad that you're here to share that, because my listeners need that.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: No, thank you.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: And after you told me like, oh my gosh, you should come on to my podcast, I'm not going to lie.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: It took me a few days to say like he's just being polite, is he just being polite to say that?
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: And finally I was like how many other people, even just in their own personal justification, say he didn't hit me, so that's not romantic violence, or he didn't.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: But then I think about truly the fear that I felt those days when I was not sleeping, just laying in the bedroom with this light on.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: And I'm like how many other people out there have felt just this, like to their core fear of another person, whether it be in an intimate relationship or with a parent or anything like that.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: But they feel they have to justify that there was no physical violence.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: That mental violence that I'm sure so many of us have faced is worth talking about.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: There is not a feeling that I know scarier than, and that people that I've talked to, regardless of what their trauma is, the scariest feeling is to not feel safe in your own home.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely yeah.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Regardless of what made you feel that way, regardless if it was you as a child hiding in a closet while your mom and dad screamed at each other, it doesn't matter.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: To not feel safe in your own home is the most terrifying thing.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: And whatever made you feel that way, there's no greater than or less than it is what it is, and I'm glad that we're able to make that point today.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: And something else that I found out later was that he was messaging I don't know if it was like friends or family or something like that, but he was telling them like, oh my God, she's talking to our mom, like she's scared of me or something.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: And I realized in that moment of oh this, this didn't affect him in the slightest.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: This did not affect him in the sheer torment that it affected me.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: What's the saying?
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: That the axe forgets, but the tree will always remember.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not looking at the guy.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: And I also found out later so I had mentioned that he had taken me ring shopping that when, during that breakup that we were having, I had mentioned this, I thought we were going in a good direction to engage.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: And he said, oh no, I never had any intention of ever marrying you and it was just like another.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know if he was lying or not, honestly, but I'm like, even if he was lying, it was to hurt me and just one more knock to my psyche.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: So luckily, I was able to find a job that has led me to, in my opinion, successful career that I have now, and I was able to buy a beautiful house in my partner now he's wonderful.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: So, with all of this horrible stuff said, I don't regret it.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: For the first few years of my attack I was like God, I would have done anything to have not went there that night.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: I would have done anything to have just not been seen or noticed and I would have done anything to not be me, which is victim blaming.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: And then, recently, with my, my platform growing and people messaging me about the lives and I'm helping, change and inspiration that I'm giving I wouldn't trade what happened to me for anything, because I found the good in the ugly of helping people which has brought on this whole.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: I don't say new passion is a passion I've always had, but it's on a.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: I've never thought about having a podcast and never thought about doing anything like this.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: And now it wouldn't change the world.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: And so people sometimes question like how did that happen?
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: How did you get there?
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: And so, like you've said and so many of us we've had on the show was said, in those moments I was like what the fuck did I do to deserve this?
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: Like why is this happening?
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: And then now, when you get to that place, kind of okay, I wouldn't have picked this path.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: I would wish that anybody, but the lessons that I've learned to help create this new world in space.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: And some of those lessons that I've learned too of even just in my opinion, the things that every young person goes through you are worth it, you don't have to take that.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: I feel like everybody's had at least some moment of that self discovery.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Some people it's maybe not as extreme as other people, of course, but it's still just that journey of growth and becoming an adult almost.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember when I was at work and I got notification that you had scheduled and you're right, like it was like almost a week after I sent you the link and after a few days I was like she's just not ready and that's okay, maybe a few more times if it's hanging out and talking she, this link was sent to her, she knows the door is open, we're good.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: And then I got the notification that was like oh, dana's scheduled.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: I was like what that made me so happy.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: And so when you were talking about how it took you a few days to realize that no, this needs to be talked about, I love that.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: We kind of had that moment together.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely yeah.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: You always hear the term like if blank helps one person, then it's worth it, it's all been worth it, and I think that's what it boiled down to.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: For me is if there's just one person out there listening that can look at themselves and say, no, he didn't hit me, but I was still traumatized by that, or no, there wasn't physical violence by my stepmother, but that was still horrible for me.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I will say one thing that I'm really excited about is, for lack of better words, and excited as in helping people right, but a lot of the cases that I have covered has been death in suicide or drug related or sexual assault, and it's not ever, always, even though the mental aspect and all that plays a factor, absolutely, but that's never been the main focus.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: What I think is so great about this and you being on today is I've had so many college student females reach out to me that they listen to my show and their emails are them saying in your opinion, david, do you think this is abuse?
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Because he's not touched me but he punches the steering wheel, or like these little flags that they're not realizing, or red flags and I have to be very sensitive about how I say it because I don't want to be like, oh no, run, girl run.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: And but I think I'm so excited about this getting out there because I can name five people off the top of my head that have written me that I know by name that will that need to hear this.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, and it's interesting that you say that is because now I actually work at a university.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: I'm around college aged people every single day and part of me, just in the back of my head when I'm walking around campus, is do these people know what is available to them in terms of resources, whether that's on campus or even just a podcast with Ellen Marsh, can say no, this is OK, this is not OK.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: You mean the world to me.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: I love the friendship that we're building.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: I love getting to know you on our little Thursday nights and then now having this moment with you is so great.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: One thing that I love about the community and platform that I'm building is we're all just so loving and so supportive and we have people that will message in our Facebook group and we have the main page that it just advertises kind of what we're doing.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: But we also have the surviving abuse podcast discussion group, which is invited only so that way people can say something in there and it's not just plastered out.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: I love the place, but people will mess with me.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Like you know what is the anniversary of, or today I was a little triggered with something, or can I just vent for a minute?
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: And no one has ever been negative to.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: They've always loved watching that and I would love, if you're not a part of that discussion or page, like I would love for you to join and be a part of it, because there are people in there Like your story is taken, like I have nephews that are college age, right, and then.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: But when I see their girlfriends and then all my God children or their friends not that it's just only a female that can be abused in some kind of way, but like I see them and I see how that one boyfriend or one girlfriend could, that one statement from them could be what sticks with them forever.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah absolutely, and at least in my case, I had a lot of friends and family that were like what?
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: He's such a great guy, and you hear that, and it's for the two hours that we were hanging out with you guys until you realize that I've been with somebody for almost three years and he doesn't know a thing about me.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: He does not know the basics about me, and that is even just.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: That is so sad.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Don't you want a partner that even just knows what kind of food you like?
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: It's like for lack of better words.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: I feel like we always say those small things, but I don't believe in small things Like what we categorize as a small.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Things are the biggest things to me.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: From an outsider, looking in, my love for Reba McIntyre is probably nothing to them, but my love for Reba McIntyre is everything to me.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: You come to me and you wanna have a conversation about the song she just released, or you got me a ticket to see her in concert, or like that I will pick over a Maserati.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: So those little things that we call little things are so big to me.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: The fact that, like my partner which you probably experienced now with your partner he knows I have a bowl of fruity pebbles every now and then before I go to bed.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: If I came home and he was like, oh, I didn't get fruity pebbles but I ordered many leads that I do fruity pebbles.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean, yeah yeah, those little things are big to me.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and not to toot my own horn a little bit, but I'm a pretty good cook.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: So food is something and just my family in general I'm sure you're the same of food has been a very centralized thing in my family and that's something I do fairly well and enjoy.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: So it's like this plastic-y-valvita McIntyre oh really I shouldn't say too.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: At the time my next thought after I was like are you freaking, kidding me?
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Was you know, dana?
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: He thought of you.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: He didn't have to bring you anything.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: He really put some thought into that.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: It's a big gracious kind of mindset.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: And now, looking back, I was like no, he couldn't just tell me he was gonna get food at the bar, couldn't do that.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Everybody has their phones glued to their hands.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: Of course he could have texted and then he didn't know anything about me enough to even just like the $1 cheeseburger would have been infinitely times better than what he did.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: So now that I am where I am now I can say screw that, screw the thought.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: There was not not to compare, but I'm going to compare my partner now.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: He will find like a Carmelo at the Walmart checkout line and will be like I bet Dana would like a Carmelo bar today, and to me that's the thought that counts.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: I will fight you over the Carmelo bar I will fight you.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: If it's the last one, I will fight you.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: I guess we're having a drag down bar.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: Oh my, gosh, I love this.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: This is one of my favorite episodes because it's such a message that definitely needs to be said, and the fact that we've been building a friendship and then now like it like I'm obsessed with you.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with you.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Takes me every five minutes.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: Dana, one question that I have for you that I would love to ask is if you got to pick a documentary about a certain kind of case or serial killer or whatever where you get to be a talking head to give your points and thoughts on that case, which case would it be?
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: So this is going to be kind of niche.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: I would pick the Jamie Kloss case.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Have you heard of this one before?
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: Oh yes.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I'm originally from the general area in which she was taken from.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, so I remember instantly being like oh my, this is not to be cliche, but nothing ever happens like this here, a small town where nobody locks their doors, and so I was in college at the time, so I wasn't right there, but I just remember like being glued to it because it was local to me and horrifying.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: And I also will take full responsibility for my actions.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: But for anybody that doesn't know about the case, it was, I believe she was 13 at the time, a young girl, and for a long time all we knew was she was kidnapped.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: And I remember saying, yeah, but a lot of times when somebody's kidnapped, especially as a young person like that, the person it's a family member, relative, guy you met on the internet and the news was coming out of no, she didn't have a boyfriend, or anything like that.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: I'm like what 13 year old doesn't keep secrets from their parents, especially about boys.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: And I will take full responsibility for my actions, for saying, oh, come on, Clearly she's not saying anything that happened to her was deserved, because I'm certainly not saying that Like she had to have known them somehow.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: And then when this young lady I believe it was after 88 days escaped from her captors and was found, or she went to a neighbor and they called the police and she was rescued.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a lady walking her dog and she ran up to her.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, and it came out that she didn't know him at all.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: He saw her getting off of the bus one day on his way home from work and was just like I have to have her.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: And it's an interesting case if anybody else wants to read up on it.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: But that would be one that I would if I could be a talking head in or something, because from being from the area and being one of those people being like, okay, yeah, sure, with some random attack, and then being like, oh, my God, it was a horrifying random attack and I hope she's doing okay, it sounds like she is and thank goodness there's no news, because that means that she's living her private life.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: It is such an interesting story.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: So, dana, thank you so much for doing this with me.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad that you decided to, because these are all topics that we need to discuss.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: It's very important to realize that there's so many different forms of abuse.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be a black guy, it doesn't have to be sexual assault, but they're all equally trauma and worth discussing, because if we don't bring light to all of these topics, then there's someone out there that's saying he didn't hit me.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: He said he hits me, I'll leave.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: You need to get out now.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: It should not take that black guy to leave.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I'd also like to acknowledge that leaving process is so difficult and even looking back now, yeah, I can spot a handful of times I should have left before I actually did, and so to me I always was like you just got lucky that you could leave when you did.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: There were instances before where an outside looking in could be like girl, you're in danger, get out of there, run, go run At any point.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: When you can get out and leave, it's still just as brave as if you do have that black eye or he was just punching the steering wheel.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: And that wraps up another powerful episode of Surviving Abuse.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: I want to extend my deepest gratitude to our incredible guests for sharing their transformative journey with us today.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Your bravery is an inspiration to us all.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: Before we go, I want to remind you to stay connected with us on our social media platforms.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Follow us on Instagram, twitter, facebook and TikTok, where we will continue the conversation, share resources and provide support for survivors like you.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: Remember you're not alone.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: To all of our listeners, thank you for joining us again.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: Your resilience and willingness to heal is what makes this community strong.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: As we embark on this journey together, let's remember that there is life.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: After trauma.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: We can rise above it and create a future filled with hope and joy.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: Join us next week as we dive into the healing process and share more incredible stories of triumph and resilience.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Until then, take care of yourself and remember you deserve love, you deserve happiness and, above all, you deserve an abundance of healing MUSIC.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: We open up to the anger.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: Alright, you can't hate me longer.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Then we begin again.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Now I'm back and I'll pray for you.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: I'm done hurting.