Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Leading With Kindness, Curiosity and Resilience with Robert Corona, DO

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Leading With Kindness, Curiosity and Resilience with Robert Corona, DO · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:00
  - Welcome to this episode of Leadership Unscripted at
• 0:02
  - Becker's Healthcare podcast. I'm Chris Sosa, your host.
• 0:04
  - And I'm thrilled to be joined today by
• 0:06
  - doctor Robert Corona. He is CEO of SUNY
• 0:08
  - Upstate University and Community Hospitals in Syracuse, New
• 0:11
  - York. Bob, thank you for joining us today.
• 0:14
  - Thank you, Chris. I appreciate being on. Yeah.
• 0:16
  - We love having you on. So, Bob, before
• 0:18
  - we get started with the conversation
• 0:20
  - about your health care journey and then what
• 0:21
  - you've learned and what you'd like to share
• 0:23
  - with our audience,
• 0:24
  - could you please just take a minute to
• 0:26
  - introduce yourself a little bit further and tell
• 0:28
  - us a little bit more about SUNY?
• 0:31
  - Well, SUNY Upstate is one of three,
• 0:34
  - public hospitals
• 0:35
  - in
• 0:36
  - state run public hospitals in New York State.
• 0:38
  - So we have, SUNY Upstate in Syracuse,
• 0:41
  - SUNY Downstate in Brooklyn, and SUNY Stony Brook.
• 0:45
  - And, our academic medical center has
• 0:48
  - a main university hospital with level one trauma
• 0:51
  - burn unit.
• 0:52
  - We have a children's hospital, which is a
• 0:54
  - hospital within a hospital, and then we have
• 0:56
  - a community hospital.
• 0:58
  - We also have what's called a children's pavilion,
• 1:00
  - which is new. It's a 30 bed hospital
• 1:03
  - for complicated,
• 1:05
  - behavioral,
• 1:06
  - pediatric cases that also have a psychiatric,
• 1:09
  - diagnosis.
• 1:11
  - So we, we're a referral center for a
• 1:13
  - pretty large swath of New York state.
• 1:16
  - So we have both an urban,
• 1:19
  - environment and a pretty rural environment in Upstate
• 1:21
  - New York and Northern New York.
• 1:24
  - And so, very busy. We've been growing
• 1:27
  - like crazy,
• 1:28
  - since I've been
• 1:29
  - CEO. We've,
• 1:31
  - probably doubled in size,
• 1:34
  - which is a good thing. And,
• 1:36
  - we're we're,
• 1:38
  - we're continuing to grow. We're excited about the
• 1:41
  - community is getting a big infusion
• 1:43
  - from Micron Corporation. They're investing
• 1:46
  - $100,000,000,000
• 1:48
  - into the area
• 1:49
  - and, building chip manufacturing.
• 1:52
  - We've had some big investments from Amazon and
• 1:55
  - now Chobani,
• 1:56
  - yogurt is, gonna be building another big facility
• 2:00
  - nearby. So, the demand, I think is gonna
• 2:03
  - be pretty pretty great.
• 2:06
  - As far as my background,
• 2:08
  - I'm a brain pathologist, neuropathologist
• 2:10
  - with
• 2:11
  - clinical informatics
• 2:13
  - as well.
• 2:14
  - I left academic medical center,
• 2:17
  - after about three years as a neuropathologist and
• 2:20
  - worked at Welch Allen as their medical officer
• 2:23
  - for sixteen years,
• 2:25
  - then came back to, to Upstate
• 2:28
  - as
• 2:29
  - the chair of pathology.
• 2:31
  - And then through a series of
• 2:34
  - circumstances,
• 2:35
  - I ended up as a CEO.
• 2:39
  - Oh, well, you've been the CEO at Upstate
• 2:41
  - for not quite eight years now. Tail end
• 2:43
  - of twenty eighteen.
• 2:45
  - Got it. Got it. So time for COVID.
• 2:49
  - Well,
• 2:50
  - yeah.
• 2:52
  - Do you have any
• 2:53
  - memories of going through the pandemic in terms
• 2:56
  - of
• 2:57
  - what
• 2:58
  - you learned about resilience and what your team
• 3:01
  - learned about
• 3:02
  - leading community through that kind of
• 3:05
  - event.
• 3:06
  - Yeah. It was,
• 3:08
  - kind of fly by the seat of your
• 3:09
  - pants.
• 3:10
  - We had
• 3:12
  - a a big
• 3:14
  - influx of well, a a big problem with
• 3:17
  - COVID in New York City at first, and
• 3:19
  - we were relatively spared in Upstate New York.
• 3:21
  - So we actually sent people
• 3:24
  - from our hospital down to help out the
• 3:25
  - hospitals downstate.
• 3:28
  - One of our doctors ran the Javits Center,
• 3:31
  - that was set up that never really materialized.
• 3:34
  - Then the reverse came where,
• 3:37
  - we started to get a lot of COVID
• 3:39
  - cases,
• 3:40
  - and they were so inundated with COVID downstate
• 3:43
  - they weren't able to come up and help
• 3:44
  - us. But we did get help from the
• 3:46
  - military, and we got,
• 3:48
  - some relief from the regulations
• 3:50
  - to use,
• 3:51
  - paramedics, and it was crazy. We were buying
• 3:55
  - medical supplies,
• 3:58
  - from
• 3:59
  - China, but, we couldn't get them flown in.
• 4:02
  - So we had to fly them into Singapore
• 4:04
  - and pay cash for certain supplies. It it
• 4:07
  - was a crazy time. And then, you know,
• 4:09
  - our governor did a a daily
• 4:12
  - video, so we were always scurrying to get
• 4:14
  - him the data,
• 4:15
  - for the state. And we didn't wanna look
• 4:17
  - like one of the
• 4:19
  - the outliers in
• 4:21
  - in the state because you get called out
• 4:22
  - on TV. So
• 4:24
  - it was kinda it was kinda stressful.
• 4:27
  - Well, my goodness. That that is a lot
• 4:28
  - to go through for any community. But as
• 4:31
  - you said, you know, here you are now
• 4:32
  - a few years later and, you know, you've
• 4:34
  - doubled in size since,
• 4:37
  - you know, since you got to
• 4:39
  - through the Upstate, so that that's incredible
• 4:42
  - achievement in and of itself.
• 4:44
  - So, Bob, where I wanna start with the
• 4:47
  - bulk of this conversation is simply,
• 4:49
  - you know, COVID included. Right?
• 4:52
  - But wherever you wanna take this works for
• 4:54
  - us. So what do would you say something
• 4:55
  - you've learned
• 4:57
  - outside of health care that you have applied
• 4:59
  - to your career?
• 5:01
  - So I I was a big, sports
• 5:04
  - enthusiast
• 5:05
  - as, in high school, played all the high
• 5:07
  - school sports, and my father was a coach,
• 5:11
  - and then continued, I actually was a team
• 5:14
  - physician, believe it or not, as a pathologist.
• 5:18
  - And,
• 5:19
  - I've learned about decision making under pressure
• 5:22
  - from,
• 5:23
  - those opportunities. I did coach my own kids
• 5:27
  - in sports as well,
• 5:29
  - and so coaching and being part of sports
• 5:32
  - has been a big deal. So
• 5:34
  - I I think in pathology, you often have
• 5:36
  - to make,
• 5:37
  - clinical calls without all the information, especially
• 5:41
  - when you're dealing with a frozen section. For
• 5:44
  - instance, on a brain biopsy,
• 5:46
  - the neurosurgeon doesn't wanna hear that I can't
• 5:48
  - really tell what it is.
• 5:50
  - They want your, you know, they want your
• 5:52
  - best recommendation at the time with the information
• 5:54
  - you have.
• 5:56
  - And I think that happens in sports a
• 5:57
  - lot of times. You know, we you hear
• 5:59
  - the metaphor of the quarterback coming up to
• 6:00
  - the line of scrimmage and have to call
• 6:02
  - a audible.
• 6:04
  - You know, I use that term a lot
• 6:05
  - with my officers. I said, you know, sometimes
• 6:07
  - the best plan
• 6:09
  - when we come to the line of scrimmage
• 6:11
  - requires an audible. And so
• 6:13
  - the best way to make these tough decisions,
• 6:15
  - I think, are to plan through ahead of
• 6:17
  - time
• 6:18
  - the scenarios that you're gonna
• 6:20
  - encounter,
• 6:21
  - and then you have less processing
• 6:24
  - at the time when you have to make
• 6:25
  - the decision. And I teach that to, medical
• 6:28
  - students and residents.
• 6:29
  - You know, when you order a test or
• 6:31
  - you're gonna be involved in
• 6:34
  - a test, be prepared for the results. So
• 6:35
  - I think that's probably something I've learned from
• 6:37
  - both sports and from
• 6:39
  - my experience in pathology.
• 6:42
  - Gotcha. Yeah. There certainly is no substitute for
• 6:45
  - excellent preparation. That's for sure.
• 6:48
  - About what sport was, your favorite growing up
• 6:51
  - and and now even?
• 6:53
  - I I'd I'd say it was probably a
• 6:55
  - tie between
• 6:57
  - football and basketball.
• 6:58
  - The high school I went to had the
• 7:00
  - traditional,
• 7:01
  - you know, sports.
• 7:02
  - In the spring, I played tennis.
• 7:04
  - I wasn't much of a baseball player.
• 7:07
  - But
• 7:08
  - the high school that my kids went to
• 7:10
  - was a big
• 7:11
  - lacrosse high school.
• 7:13
  - And my, you know, my son ended up
• 7:15
  - playing lacrosse and rugby, which
• 7:18
  - was different than the sports I had. I
• 7:20
  - coached my daughters in basketball, and I,
• 7:24
  - kinda watched my son. I didn't have any
• 7:26
  - expertise in lacrosse, but those were sports I
• 7:28
  - picked up later in life.
• 7:31
  - Bob, do you find it, more stressful to
• 7:33
  - to coach your your team, so to speak,
• 7:35
  - at SUNY Upstate or coach your own children?
• 7:38
  - Probably my own children. I I've I've fortunate
• 7:42
  - at, SUNY Upstate to have
• 7:45
  - an absolutely incredible team, and they almost make,
• 7:49
  - my job
• 7:50
  - be, seem like it's on autopilot because they're
• 7:53
  - so talented.
• 7:54
  - I just
• 7:55
  - I seem to be the person that kinda
• 7:58
  - sets the direction, and they, they do a
• 8:00
  - great job in delivering.
• 8:02
  - Fantastic.
• 8:04
  - Bob, so I'm glad that you mentioned sports
• 8:06
  - for this reason. So
• 8:08
  - being a leader in any sort of position
• 8:10
  - requires you to keep yourself healthy,
• 8:13
  - whether that's physically, mentally, emotionally, whatever aspects, you
• 8:16
  - know, is most important in that given time.
• 8:18
  - So how do you do that?
• 8:20
  - Well, I make exercise a key part of
• 8:23
  - my morning
• 8:24
  - every day. So,
• 8:26
  - three days a week, I do strength training
• 8:28
  - and three days a week,
• 8:30
  - I try to do
• 8:32
  - cardiovascular
• 8:34
  - type exercise.
• 8:35
  - I
• 8:37
  - also have, two dogs that are a big
• 8:40
  - part of my relaxation. So I take them
• 8:42
  - on walks
• 8:43
  - and then try to
• 8:46
  - keep my brain
• 8:47
  - active through music and through, doing a lot
• 8:50
  - of reading.
• 8:52
  - Are you a musician yourself, Bob?
• 8:54
  - I'm a little bit of a hack on
• 8:56
  - almost
• 8:57
  - three or four instruments.
• 8:59
  - I played trumpet,
• 9:00
  - all through high school and and did did
• 9:03
  - okay at that,
• 9:04
  - but I play the drums and,
• 9:07
  - the guitar
• 9:08
  - a little bit. In fact, for a brief
• 9:10
  - period of time, we had a a band
• 9:12
  - with the dean of the College of Medicine
• 9:14
  - and a couple of the other docs,
• 9:16
  - which the band is has continued, but I
• 9:19
  - I I dropped out when I became CEO.
• 9:22
  - You just didn't find the time? Or
• 9:24
  - Yeah. I didn't find the time. You know,
• 9:26
  - I'm I'm I'm focused now on trying to
• 9:29
  - get
• 9:30
  - decent at the, guitar. So,
• 9:33
  - we'll see how that goes.
• 9:35
  - Well, I wish you the best of luck
• 9:37
  - in that. Yeah. I I'm not I didn't
• 9:39
  - was not fortunate enough to play
• 9:42
  - musical interest instrument myself.
• 9:44
  - But, you know, I am certainly interested in
• 9:46
  - in other languages, and
• 9:48
  - that is a metaphor that I tend to
• 9:50
  - come back to that learning
• 9:53
  - approaching other languages
• 9:55
  - is kind of like
• 9:56
  - being a musician
• 9:58
  - and approaching music in that you can appreciate
• 10:01
  - in a different sort of way. Did you
• 10:02
  - sound that to be the case?
• 10:04
  - Yeah. I I I agree. I I mean,
• 10:07
  - I've tried
• 10:08
  - to pick up I I mean, when I
• 10:09
  - learned Spanish in high school, I tried to
• 10:11
  - pick up, Italian when we went to Italy
• 10:13
  - a couple times.
• 10:15
  - Music tends to be something that I love
• 10:17
  - to to listen to. My my brother is
• 10:18
  - actually in the
• 10:20
  - music industry,
• 10:22
  - and he's a good drummer. But,
• 10:24
  - I'd I'd like to be a little more
• 10:25
  - accomplished at at, at an instrument. So I'm
• 10:28
  - gonna I'm gonna work at it over the
• 10:30
  - next couple years.
• 10:32
  - Well, you know, lifelong learning, you know, whether
• 10:35
  - it's inside of your own job or or
• 10:37
  - outside of it is certainly gonna be helpful.
• 10:39
  - Yeah. With that, my next question is simply,
• 10:41
  - what's something you've learned about yourself
• 10:44
  - from working in health care?
• 10:46
  - Well, you know, I I I'm the kind
• 10:48
  - of person that can't watch a movie where
• 10:50
  - an animal gets hurt.
• 10:52
  - And You and my wife share that trait
• 10:55
  - for sure. Yeah. And I I really
• 10:58
  - I get, very upset when I see human
• 11:01
  - beings suffering.
• 11:03
  - You know, I I walk around the hospital
• 11:05
  - a lot. I make rounds a lot. I
• 11:07
  - take pictures of of people,
• 11:10
  - our employees,
• 11:11
  - when they're doing good work. And I do
• 11:14
  - a weekly video, and I feature an employee
• 11:16
  - all the time.
• 11:17
  - And I try to emphasize being kind.
• 11:20
  - And,
• 11:22
  - it really it really bothers me to see
• 11:25
  - kids suffering and
• 11:27
  - adults languishing in an emergency department because we
• 11:30
  - can't find them a bed.
• 11:32
  - So I've I've learned that I've gotta figure
• 11:34
  - out ways to somewhat compartmentalize
• 11:36
  - that stuff, to do my job, and and
• 11:39
  - and I do.
• 11:40
  - It's just
• 11:42
  - take some meditation and take some, deep breathing
• 11:44
  - to,
• 11:46
  - to manage through what I see is a
• 11:48
  - lot of suffering in this world.
• 11:51
  - Yeah. And
• 11:52
  - the kindness aspect that you,
• 11:55
  - just emphasized, Bob. So what when you're going
• 11:57
  - about your job
• 11:58
  - on a daily basis,
• 12:00
  - how do you try
• 12:02
  - and teach that message to your staff?
• 12:06
  - So every every week, I in my video,
• 12:08
  - I end it with be kind to yourself,
• 12:10
  - be kind to others, and I have what's
• 12:12
  - called a kindness initiative.
• 12:15
  - And, we do a lot of things to
• 12:17
  - emphasize this. In fact, I give out a
• 12:19
  - CEO medallion
• 12:21
  - or people that demonstrate,
• 12:23
  - really exceptional kindness.
• 12:26
  - It's something that I learned when I was
• 12:27
  - with Welch Allen.
• 12:29
  - The great grandfather
• 12:31
  - who was the second generation of the founder,
• 12:35
  - he used to say, you really need to
• 12:36
  - be kind to people and truthful.
• 12:39
  - And
• 12:40
  - sometimes
• 12:42
  - kindness requires you to give difficult information,
• 12:45
  - but you can do it in a kind
• 12:47
  - way.
• 12:48
  - And so I've I've I've taken that that
• 12:50
  - kind of culture that was,
• 12:53
  - at WelchAllan and brought it over into
• 12:56
  - Upstate. And it's funny, everybody that sees me
• 13:00
  - will often say, hey. I watched your video.
• 13:02
  - Please don't ever stop saying be kind to
• 13:05
  - yourself, be kind to others.
• 13:06
  - And so now I'm starting to see people
• 13:08
  - do
• 13:09
  - things like they're making up,
• 13:13
  - valued behaviors in their department based on the
• 13:15
  - KIND acronym.
• 13:17
  - And so,
• 13:19
  - it's nice to kinda see it permeating through
• 13:22
  - through our culture that we emphasize kindness.
• 13:26
  - Jose, I love that message, and I love
• 13:28
  - that you found and your employees
• 13:30
  - also found ways to pass that on, especially
• 13:33
  - when, as you well know, anyone health
• 13:36
  - care
• 13:37
  - in your position and at hospital of any
• 13:39
  - sort is they're dealing with people and and
• 13:41
  - caring for people more importantly at their worst
• 13:43
  - moments, and that can be really, really difficult.
• 13:45
  - Yeah.
• 13:47
  - Robert, so
• 13:48
  - as a leader,
• 13:50
  - anyone who's made it to a CEO seat
• 13:53
  - as you have, you gotta take some risks.
• 13:55
  - Right?
• 13:56
  - So what would you say is one risk
• 13:58
  - that you have taken that has paid off
• 13:59
  - whether it's personally or professionally?
• 14:03
  - Well, I think the first big risk I
• 14:05
  - took was leaving academic medicine to go into
• 14:08
  - industry after only being in practice for three
• 14:11
  - years.
• 14:12
  - I can remember I was at a dinner
• 14:14
  - and I sat next to the CEO of
• 14:15
  - Welch Allen, and he had asked me about
• 14:18
  - some things that were at this conference that
• 14:22
  - I had, had led.
• 14:24
  - And when he said, hey, did you did
• 14:26
  - you do all this stuff? And I, you
• 14:27
  - know, when I told him I did, he
• 14:29
  - said, I want you to come and be
• 14:30
  - my medical officer and help our company go
• 14:33
  - from
• 14:34
  - an optical mechanical based company to
• 14:38
  - a digital company.
• 14:40
  - And I talked to my mentor and he
• 14:42
  - said, you're never gonna get an opportunity like
• 14:44
  - this again. Take the leap.
• 14:47
  - So I jumped from academics and
• 14:49
  - went into industry and I was told you'll
• 14:51
  - never be able to come back to academics.
• 14:54
  - But I kept my foot in the door
• 14:56
  - just enough by teaching for those sixteen years
• 14:58
  - that one day I was walking into the
• 15:00
  - hospital,
• 15:01
  - and the head of the search committee for
• 15:03
  - the pathology chair said, hey, would you ever
• 15:05
  - throw your hat in the ring to be
• 15:06
  - the chair of pathology?
• 15:09
  - So I did.
• 15:11
  - And when I was offered the job, I
• 15:12
  - went to my mentor in industry,
• 15:16
  - and he said, look. You've been in industry
• 15:18
  - sixteen years. If you wanna ever get back
• 15:20
  - into academics,
• 15:21
  - now's the time to make the jump.
• 15:24
  - So that was scary. I gave up a
• 15:26
  - cushy
• 15:27
  - executive position in a corporation to go back
• 15:30
  - to academics.
• 15:32
  - But I did it, and it it worked
• 15:34
  - out. And then
• 15:35
  - I got offered the position to be CEO,
• 15:38
  - and I said, I don't wanna leave my
• 15:39
  - chair position.
• 15:40
  - They said, oh, just do this for a
• 15:42
  - little while on an interim basis, but then
• 15:45
  - they asked me to stay. So
• 15:48
  - a lot of these jobs I never looked
• 15:50
  - for and just happened to be curious and
• 15:53
  - interested and took the chance and got lucky.
• 15:57
  - Strange how that happens. I've spoken with a
• 16:00
  - number of CEOs and other health care leaders
• 16:02
  - who
• 16:03
  - have, similar arcs
• 16:05
  - and that, you know,
• 16:07
  - they keep themselves curious
• 16:10
  - and not just tied to
• 16:12
  - one type of
• 16:13
  - job or industry. And a lot of them
• 16:16
  - end up, you know, in positions such as
• 16:18
  - yours. So, you know, congrats for
• 16:21
  - just looking at yourself and saying, you know
• 16:23
  - what? I think it's worth it to try
• 16:25
  - this at this given time. It certainly wasn't
• 16:27
  - easy, it doesn't sound like.
• 16:29
  - No. It wasn't it wasn't easy, but it
• 16:31
  - was exciting,
• 16:33
  - and it was just a great thing to
• 16:35
  - learn.
• 16:36
  - I was fortunate that when I was in
• 16:38
  - industry, they paid for me to get an
• 16:40
  - MBA.
• 16:41
  - I've been fortunate
• 16:43
  - back in academia. They've given me the,
• 16:46
  - resources to go become an executive coach.
• 16:49
  - So all of these things,
• 16:52
  - have worked out. I've I've been lucky to
• 16:54
  - have great mentors, and I've been lucky to
• 16:56
  - have really good people
• 16:58
  - that have been either leading a company, like
• 17:01
  - at Welch Allen, the CEO was just a
• 17:03
  - remarkable human being. And now the president of
• 17:06
  - the university who I report to is a
• 17:08
  - remarkable human being. So I've I've I've just
• 17:11
  - been really fortunate. I've been really lucky.
• 17:14
  - Well, I think, as a leader, even
• 17:17
  - I think most leaders would say it certainly
• 17:20
  - helps and pays to surround themselves,
• 17:22
  - with people who are
• 17:24
  - of the finest quality. Let's put it that
• 17:26
  - way. So I imagine that's probably what happened
• 17:28
  - when, you know, the the Upstate
• 17:32
  - leadership and and Welch Allen, you know, said,
• 17:34
  - hey. You know, we want Bob to be
• 17:36
  - a part of our team. That's
• 17:37
  - I I don't think that's a huge leap
• 17:39
  - that I'm making there.
• 17:41
  - But, Bob, as as you've been a leader
• 17:43
  - at a number of places,
• 17:45
  - you know, including at SUNY Upstate,
• 17:48
  - so you've seen a lot. And having done
• 17:51
  - so, what would you say is an underrated
• 17:53
  - leadership trait? And who do you think is
• 17:55
  - someone who's embodied that? Whether it's
• 17:58
  - a specific person or a group of people.
• 18:01
  - I I think some of the,
• 18:04
  - the best leaders I've encountered,
• 18:07
  - have been great listeners.
• 18:09
  - So the previous presidents of the university
• 18:12
  - that have been my mentors, including the the
• 18:15
  - present, president who's
• 18:17
  - he's just a phenomenal,
• 18:20
  - listener. He's a psychiatrist, so he's got a
• 18:22
  - lot of skill in that area. Right. But
• 18:25
  - he he just has such wisdom and he
• 18:27
  - listens to every point of view
• 18:30
  - and usually
• 18:31
  - coaches people to make their own decisions,
• 18:33
  - which I thought was a great trait. It
• 18:36
  - was very similar at at at an industry.
• 18:39
  - Bill Allen, who was the CEO at Welch
• 18:41
  - Allen while I was there most of the
• 18:42
  - time.
• 18:44
  - Just just a great great listener,
• 18:46
  - very excited
• 18:48
  - to hear people's ideas,
• 18:51
  - always encourage people to be,
• 18:54
  - open with their with their ideas. And I
• 18:57
  - I think that's just such an under
• 19:00
  - graded feature of a great leader to to
• 19:03
  - be a great listener.
• 19:05
  - Absolutely.
• 19:06
  - Bob, this has been a terrific conversation, and
• 19:09
  - I can't wait to share with our audience.
• 19:11
  - Thank you again for coming on today.
• 19:14
  - Thank you, Chris. Appreciate it and,
• 19:16
  - look forward to attending the next Becker's meeting.
• 19:19
  - Thank you.