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MOM-OF-8 SHOT DEAD CONFRONTING DOPERS TRYING TO SELL HER KIDS WEED · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a mom of eight. Let
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: that Saint Ken a mom of eight shot dead, executed
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: on the street because why she confronts dopers trying to
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  Speaker 1: sell weed to her children. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
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  Speaker 2: Just before school starts again, Maria Ramos, thirty three, brings
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  Speaker 2: her eight children on a visit to their grandmothers in Oakland, California.
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  Speaker 2: Blanco Velasco's home is full of bubbly energy while she
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  Speaker 2: hosts both Maria and her other daughter's families. The children
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  Speaker 2: are excited for back to school shopping with their cousins.
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  Speaker 1: We've all lived through that, the excitement of back to school,
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  Speaker 1: getting ready, getting new outfits, getting the notebooks, the pens,
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  Speaker 1: the everything. That's what was happening. How can that seemingly
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  Speaker 1: idyllic moment go so wrong? And then, in an eerie premonition,
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  Speaker 1: this mom of eight is talking about her plans to
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  Speaker 1: move her family, her children along with her mom, for
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  Speaker 1: a better life, to a better area where they can
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  Speaker 1: have a yard and a garden in the back listen.
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  Speaker 3: In recent years, Maria Ramos has become extremely close with
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  Speaker 3: mom Blanco of Alaska. Maria often talks of moving to
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  Speaker 3: a larger home in the central valley with a big
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  Speaker 3: yard for the children and a vegetable garden. Maria is
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  Speaker 3: determined to provide a better life for her eight children.
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  Speaker 3: Maria and Blanco put a timeline on their dream, planning
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  Speaker 3: to move from her set together next year.
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  Speaker 1: The mommy couldn't make it happen fast enough. You know,
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  Speaker 1: many of us juggle working in children. She has eight
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  Speaker 1: children to take care of. Her big plan was to
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  Speaker 1: move those eight children do a home a neighborhood where
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  Speaker 1: she could have a front yard and a garden in
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  Speaker 1: the back. But she couldn't get there fast enough. This
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  Speaker 1: is where it starts. Listen.
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  Speaker 4: Around two pm, Blanc of Alasko notices a blue Toyota
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  Speaker 4: Sedan parked outside her home for an extended period of time.
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  Speaker 4: Suspicious mom of eight Maria Ramos walks down the driveway
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  Speaker 4: along with her mom to investigate the unknown car there
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  Speaker 4: in the street. The men in the car state they've
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  Speaker 4: come to sell Velasco's sixteen year old grandson an order
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  Speaker 4: and flash a marijuana eight pen. The two women argue
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  Speaker 4: with the men, and the blue Toyota speeds.
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  Speaker 1: Away with me an all star panel to make sense
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  Speaker 1: of what we're learning right now. But first to Rachel Swan,
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  Speaker 1: joining us investigative reporter writer with the San Francisco Chronicle. Rachel,
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  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. Tell me
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  Speaker 1: the first part of this story. Tell me about the
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  Speaker 1: mom realizing spotting that blue Toyota and going down to
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  Speaker 1: confront it, and then following it with the grandma.
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  Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. So, so, basically, this.
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  Speaker 1: What this was.
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  Speaker 5: You know, three people.
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  Speaker 6: Who were apparently involved in a business together where they
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  Speaker 6: did deliveries of i'll say, illegal substances to people's homes.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, Rachel, as you know on crime stories,
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  Speaker 1: everybody including me, is on the hot seat. Did you
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  Speaker 1: just say, yeah, that the guys in the car were
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  Speaker 1: in a business together.
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  Speaker 6: Well, you know, not that much is known right now,
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  Speaker 6: but we know that they were making a delivery for
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  Speaker 6: you know, a web drug delivery service where you know,
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  Speaker 6: they had a website.
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  Speaker 5: Advertised I assume, you know, illegal.
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  Speaker 6: Substances that they would deliver to your home, you know, sort.
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  Speaker 1: Of like, well, let me get my hand around this. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: Rachel Swan, it's everything You're saying is correct. I just
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  Speaker 1: have a heart. I a hard time digesting it because
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  Speaker 1: you know, to Philip Dubay, high profile defense attorney in
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  Speaker 1: the California jurisdiction, what is like delivering a pizza or
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  Speaker 1: Chinese You go to a website, you type it in
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  Speaker 1: and you get drugs and that's okay.
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  Speaker 7: Well, first of all, I think they're mischaracterizing that it
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  Speaker 7: wasn't drugs. It was vape pens. Okay, that's what the
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  Speaker 7: paraphernalia is, that kids vape of what marijuana or tobacco whatever.
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  Speaker 7: But you got to understand it.
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  Speaker 1: So you're okay with miners having marijuana? No, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: if you're snoop, fine, go for it. But Philip Dubay, look, okay,
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  Speaker 1: so mom of eight, those are eight children, most of
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  Speaker 1: them are miners. What is it legally your just for
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  Speaker 1: miners to have marijuana, it's an infraction. Basically, it's like
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  Speaker 1: a moving violation infraction. So for a miner to have pot,
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  Speaker 1: it's an infraction. I'm not talking about you. You can
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  Speaker 1: have a big do be right now for all I care,
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  Speaker 1: But for a miner it'll be a cold day in
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  Speaker 1: h double al that some ahole pulls up and tries
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  Speaker 1: to deliver pot to my child. That's not happening. So
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  Speaker 1: you're telling me that's absolutely okay to give an eleven
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  Speaker 1: or twelve year old marijuana. No, not at all.
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  Speaker 7: But I think there's a little more to the story here.
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  Speaker 7: I think when mom rushed that car, she brought like
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  Speaker 7: a little canister of pepper spray and she makes the
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  Speaker 7: kids in the car. So if that's the case, that
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  Speaker 7: under California law is an assault with the weapon. And
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  Speaker 7: here you have mid traffics and car pulling up, Mom
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  Speaker 7: spritzing everybody in the car. They feel like they're being attacked.
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  Speaker 7: If I were defending these kids, it would be a
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  Speaker 7: self defense, defensive others type situation. Not to say that
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  Speaker 7: Mom had it coming, and not to victim sheme.
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  Speaker 1: Here, because that is what you're making it sound like.
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  Speaker 1: So Mom is trying to scare away dopers from her children.
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  Speaker 1: They take off, she follows them to tell them to
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  Speaker 1: stay out of her neighborhood. She goes up to the car,
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  Speaker 1: sees a gun, then sprays a little pepper spray. I
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  Speaker 1: would do if I saw a gun in the car. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: if I had the pepper spray with me. Yes, but
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  Speaker 1: you're making it sound like it's self defense on the
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  Speaker 1: doper's part.
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  Speaker 7: Well, first of all, you're assuming that that's how it
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  Speaker 7: played out. You know, it was widely reported.
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  Speaker 1: That you're assuming it's not.
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  Speaker 7: No, my mom went up there and sprits them all
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  Speaker 7: because she was angry rather than finger wag and yell
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  Speaker 7: at them for being in the neighborhood and selling these devices.
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  Speaker 1: Oh sorry, did you just land on planet Earth? Did
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  Speaker 1: you crawl out of an egg? Wait, you had a
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  Speaker 1: moll I'm right, a human mother. Correct. Yes, she never
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  Speaker 1: went don't do that. That's wrong. She never did that
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  Speaker 1: to you, not once.
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  Speaker 7: Not with pepper spray at her hand.
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  Speaker 1: No, she used You made her. You made her sound
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  Speaker 1: like the devil from hell. She finger wagged.
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  Speaker 7: Mother.
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  Speaker 1: You know what I can't hear you right now? Tomas Smith?
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  Speaker 1: Can you help me? Help me? Tom Smith joining me,
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  Speaker 1: former NYPD detective, co host of the gold Shield Podcast,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: and what that is is true live crime with the detectives,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: the investigators, the cops, the forensics that actually work on
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: that case. Past or present gold Shield Podcast. Tom no
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  Speaker 1: offense to Philip Dubay. He is a high profile defense
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  Speaker 1: attorney with the Public Defender's office. Nothing wrong with that,
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  Speaker 1: and La and he seems to think that mommy is
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  Speaker 1: the devil. She meels above because she with her mother,
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  Speaker 1: the grandma, chases down the dopers and fusses at them
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  Speaker 1: and wags her finger. According to him, so she sees
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  Speaker 1: a gun in the car, sprays pepper spray and runs off.
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  Speaker 1: And what do they do chase her down and shoot
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  Speaker 1: her dead. I mean, you and I both know, Tom Smith.
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  Speaker 1: I know you didn't get your law degree, but you
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  Speaker 1: know all about self defense. And when someone is running
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  Speaker 1: away from you and you pursue them and shoot them,
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  Speaker 1: you do not have a claim of self defense. What
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  Speaker 1: were you afraid of? Pointer her index finger? Really?
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  Speaker 8: Oh, absolutely right, it doesn't equal. And she went up
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  Speaker 8: there defending her kids and trying to make a better
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  Speaker 8: life for her kids. And these criminals, and that's exactly
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  Speaker 8: what they are. They had a gun in the car,
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  Speaker 8: protecting their business. And what did they do in the
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  Speaker 8: criminals today? What they do They shoot first and they
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  Speaker 8: worry about everything else later. That's exactly what happened. If
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  Speaker 8: you see the timing of the video. She got up
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  Speaker 8: there and immediately he jumped down and started shooting.
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  Speaker 1: All right, that's what happened, guys. A mother of eight,
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  Speaker 1: a mom of eight is visiting grandma, and it's brutally
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  Speaker 1: executed after she confronts drug dealers who had targeted her
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  Speaker 1: children with weed. Yes, that's what happened. Now, she has
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  Speaker 1: a little fingersized canister that fits on your key chain
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  Speaker 1: of pepper spray. He has a gun, and that's bringing
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  Speaker 1: a knife to a gunfight. That's I slap you and
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  Speaker 1: you shoot me with an oozy? What more do we know? Listen?
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  Speaker 3: Blanca and Maria hop in Velasko's car, determined to intervene
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  Speaker 3: and keep the dealers from ever returning. The lady follow
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  Speaker 3: behind the Toyota for two blocks, when suddenly the Toyota
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  Speaker 3: screeches to a stop. Blanca stops short behind them, and
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  Speaker 3: her daughter Maria gets out to approach the car. It's
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  Speaker 3: then that mama of eight, Maria quickly turns and runs
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  Speaker 3: across the street away from the Toyota.
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  Speaker 1: Joining me right now. Esteemed psychologist doctor Jory Crossing, faculty
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  Speaker 1: Saint Leo University, consultant at the Blue Wall Institute, an
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  Speaker 1: author of operations, doctor jury. If I may call you
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  Speaker 1: that you know I hear Philip Dubay, and he's doing
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  Speaker 1: what he's trying to do. That's why he wins so
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  Speaker 1: many cases because somehow, in about three sentences, he twists
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  Speaker 1: this thing around to make it mommy's fault. Help me
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  Speaker 1: out here.
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  Speaker 9: I think we've got to have a different perspective of this,
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  Speaker 9: and that deals with the individual shooters. You know, we
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  Speaker 9: can look at personalities, but when you have two people
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  Speaker 9: or more acting in concert, this socialization or think takes over.
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  Speaker 9: That's the best way that I can describe it. And
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  Speaker 9: we're seeing more and more of this across the country.
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  Speaker 9: Police officers involved in shootings and and all kinds of
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  Speaker 9: different violent altercations. We're rising to a new level of violence.
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  Speaker 1: Rachel Swan joining me, investigative reporter, staff writer San Francisco Chronicle. Rachel,
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  Speaker 1: how was this caught on video?
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  Speaker 6: Well, my understanding is that this was captured on a
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  Speaker 6: neighbor's camera, because you know, everybody has these.
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  Speaker 5: Door cameras now this camp, so.
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  Speaker 6: You know, the police are able to get warrants for
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  Speaker 6: all this video now and collect it from neighbors. You know,
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  Speaker 6: the investigation is in necessarily stages, but I would imagine
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  Speaker 6: they have multiple videos, at least one, as we can
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  Speaker 6: see very clear.
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  Speaker 1: One crime stores with Nancy Gray.
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  Speaker 2: A purp in the back seat gets out, armed with
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  Speaker 2: a gun and chases mom Maria down the street before
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  Speaker 2: opening fire. Blanca pulls closer to the Toyota, trying to
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  Speaker 2: shield her daughter, who is now trying to take cover
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  Speaker 2: from the gun to fire. When Blanca turns back towards
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  Speaker 2: the Toyota, the shooter gets back inside and runs the
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  Speaker 2: loaded gun on Grandma Blanca. In a blind panic, Blanca
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  Speaker 2: speeds away with the blue Toyota hot on her tail,
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  Speaker 2: so the.
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  Speaker 1: Grandma is terrorized as well. She sees the gun and
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  Speaker 1: takes off, thinking her daughter Maria has run away, and
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  Speaker 1: she circles back to find the worst listen.
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  Speaker 3: Blanca eventually loses the teens in traffic and feels it's
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  Speaker 3: safe to go back for Maria. Back on Hilton, Blanca
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  Speaker 3: can't seem to find Maria and assumes her daughter is
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  Speaker 3: still hiding. Then she spots Maria lying on the sidewalk
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  Speaker 3: in a pool of blood. Blanca rushes to help Maria,
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  Speaker 3: telling her to breathe and hang on for her children
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  Speaker 3: as she calls nine to one one.
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  Speaker 1: Imagine that going back to get your daughter, who has
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  Speaker 1: eight children of her own, ter raise thinking that she's hiding.
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  Speaker 1: And if you look at that video carefully, you see
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  Speaker 1: the perps actually start firing at the vehicle, the great
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  Speaker 1: SUV with Grandma and Mom in the car. Watch this,
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  Speaker 1: Watch it. Mom gets out, she sees what she's she
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  Speaker 1: sprays the pepper spray. They're chasing there, you go the
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  Speaker 1: gun and it's not over yet. Then he fires at Grandma,
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  Speaker 1: chases down, Mom, shoots her, then fires on Grandma. Grandma
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  Speaker 1: circles back to get her daughter, only to find her
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  Speaker 1: dead in a pool of blood. Begging her to hang
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  Speaker 1: on for her eight children, she calls nine to one
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  Speaker 1: one joining me now over now medical examiner with the
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  Speaker 1: formerly Clark County Office of the Coroner. That's Vegas. Never
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  Speaker 1: a lack of business there, doctor Gorniak, thank you for
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: being with us. Explain to me, how was it that
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  Speaker 1: mom of eight, Maria could bleed out so quickly there
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  Speaker 1: on the sidewalk.
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  Speaker 10: Well, it looks like from the video that she was
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  Speaker 10: shot even before she got to the sidewalk, just based
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  Speaker 10: on her gait as she's kind of running but more limping,
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  Speaker 10: so I believe that she got shot even before she
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  Speaker 10: got to the sidewalk, so she could have been shot
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  Speaker 10: in the chest, so that's not going to be an
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  Speaker 10: immediate death, and she can bleed out there. I know
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  Speaker 10: she was shot multiple times, so if she shot, say
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  Speaker 10: in her head, that could be the blood in her
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  Speaker 10: chest some of the obviously some of the blood will
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  Speaker 10: be coming out of her body, but most of it
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  Speaker 10: will be stayed inside. And unfortunately, you know, she bled
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  Speaker 10: out on the sidewalk. Terrible for her her mom to
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  Speaker 10: find her. But I want to go back up out
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  Speaker 10: the delivery of drugs. We still had a lot of
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  Speaker 10: drug overdoses during COVID when the world shut down, and
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  Speaker 10: I think that's where the quote unquote business of delivery
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  Speaker 10: came into play, because people were getting their drugs delivered
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  Speaker 10: to them because obviously they weren't going out and getting
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  Speaker 10: them off the street. So I believe the delivery of
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  Speaker 10: drugs the business of what do you call it?
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  Speaker 5: What's the door dash?
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  Speaker 10: Right? So dope dash started during COVID because we still
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  Speaker 10: had plenty of people dying of overdoses, so that probably
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  Speaker 10: this business sprung from that time.
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  Speaker 1: We are hearing unconfirmed reports that mom of a Maria
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  Speaker 1: was shot in the back. If that's true, Doctor Jan Gorniac,
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  Speaker 1: a medical examiner, explained to me how she would have
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  Speaker 1: died so quickly When her mother, the grandma circled back,
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  Speaker 1: she was already in the last throws of death. She
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  Speaker 1: was gone. The mom begging her to stay alive, you know,
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  Speaker 1: calling nine one one, They couldn't get there fast enough.
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  Speaker 1: So how would a shot to the back cause her
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  Speaker 1: to bleed out so quickly? Did her lungs fill it
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  Speaker 1: with blood? How does that work?
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  Speaker 10: Well, depending on where the shots were, there are multiple
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  Speaker 10: It could have gotten a lung. But most people don't
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  Speaker 10: realize too that the main artery in your body, the
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  Speaker 10: A order, is toward to the back. So depending on
• 16:32
  Speaker 10: the direction that the bullet went, it could have clipped
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  Speaker 10: her along and her order it could have went, depending
• 16:38
  Speaker 10: which side is going left to right, right to left,
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  Speaker 10: that it got the heart and that would be a
• 16:44
  Speaker 10: cause for her to die so quickly.
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  Speaker 1: So, doctor Gorniac, she would have been shot either in
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  Speaker 1: the back or a side shot to the torso possibly
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  Speaker 1: a shot to the arm that goes then into the chest. Correct,
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  Speaker 1: you're absolutely correct.
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  Speaker 10: There could being we call it a through and so
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  Speaker 10: in and out of the arm and then into the chest.
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  Speaker 10: So and it looks like she's shot on that that
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  Speaker 10: right side as she's facing the car, and then as
• 17:11
  Speaker 10: she's running away you'll see and she might have been
• 17:13
  Speaker 10: shot right there too, but just to see her gate,
• 17:16
  Speaker 10: it's like she wasn't running as normal as you would
• 17:20
  Speaker 10: think someone was. And plus I see that parked car
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  Speaker 10: over there, so she was. She was Unfortunately in an
• 17:28
  Speaker 10: open you know, open target for for this person to
• 17:34
  Speaker 10: to shoot.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: The mother of a gunned down in the street, and
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: to make matters worse, we find out mommy is shot
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  Speaker 1: multiple times. Listen.
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  Speaker 4: Oakland PD arrives within minutes, finding Blanca still clutching Maria,
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  Speaker 4: who is suffering from multiple gunshot wounds to her back
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  Speaker 4: and struggling to breathe. Cops fight to keep Maria conscious,
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: but by the time paramedics arrive, Maria is gone. Blanc
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: A police they just wanted to keep the teens from returning,
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  Speaker 4: and manages to tell them the car's license plate.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Number, so she is in fact shot multiple times. A
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: mother of eight, just trying to keep dope dealers out
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: of the neighborhood and away from her own children. You know,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: I've heard many, many stories, doctor Jory Crausen, of moms
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: seemingly getting superhumanus strength and you know, confronting attackers, risking
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: their own lives to save their children. And that is
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: exactly what mom of eight Maria did here. She tried
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: to take on dopers.
• 18:37
  Speaker 9: I've got to give her credit for the courage she showed,
• 18:41
  Speaker 9: you know, confronting them. Even if it was just going
• 18:45
  Speaker 9: to be in her mind, a verbal altercation, she still,
• 18:48
  Speaker 9: you know, jumped right into that fire like a mama lion,
• 18:52
  Speaker 9: protecting her coats.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Oakland PD canvas is the neighborhood and locates surveillance footage
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: that captured the entire shooting clean Clow. Those officers track
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: the blue Toyota sedan to a home on Hilton Street.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: The shocking discovery that the thugs and the blue Toyota
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  Speaker 2: selling dope or teens, including nineteen year old Isaiah Gomez,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: who is detained and questioned. Hours later, the two sixteen
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: year old passengers in Gomez's car are also arrested. Cops
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: then recover a gun that matches the showcasings found at
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: the scene.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Well, they may call it the shocking discovery that the
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: perps are teens. The shocking discovery for me is that
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: there is a mother of eight, shot multiple times on
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  Speaker 1: the street who bleeds out and dies with the grandma,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: her mother cradling her, begging her to live. And why
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: because the mom of eight, Maria dares to take on
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: dope dealers who turn out to be teens. Okay, question
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: to you, Philip Dubay, high profile defense attorney. Maybe I'm
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: missing something here, But does the fact that their teens
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: somehow change the fact that Maria, a mother of eight,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: is dead on the street. Oh no, not at all.
• 20:08
  Speaker 7: I mean, these kids are just as culpable. So the
• 20:10
  Speaker 7: only question is where are they going to go? Are
• 20:12
  Speaker 7: they going to go into the juvenile justice system or
• 20:15
  Speaker 7: will they be marched upstairs into adult court?
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: And these kids could not have pared. They're calling them kids,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: you're calling them ers. Isn't one are about to turn
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: twenty years old? Hold on, Rachel Swan joining us from
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: the San Francisco Chronicle. Isn't Isaiah Gomez the driver? Isn't
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: he about to turn twenty?
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 20:37
  Speaker 6: Well he's nineteen, so he is technically an adult, you know,
• 20:40
  Speaker 6: under the law.
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: But all teenagers.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, hold on just a moment. Rachel is Gomez the driver.
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: He is the driver. He is a driver, and.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Rachel Swan, let me understand something. What is he charged with?
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: What's the charge on the driver Isaiah Gomez?
• 21:04
  Speaker 6: And I should say, actually, he is allegedly the driver.
• 21:07
  Speaker 6: He hasn't been convicted of anything.
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: He is charged.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, Rachel, We're not in a court of law.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Look around, You're in a studio. You see the video. Okay,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: we know he is driving, but okay, the alleged driver,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: you win, you win the alleged driver. Of course, he's
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: the driver. But I'll pretend I'm in front of a
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: judge of the alleged driver. What is the charge against
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: the alleged driver, Isaiah Gomaz.
• 21:47
  Speaker 6: Felony accessory after the fact. So that's not murder. That
• 21:52
  Speaker 6: is accessory that is allegedly helping, you know, conceal the shooter,
• 22:03
  Speaker 6: basically helping him flee from the crime.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Rachel, do you just want to say allegedly one more
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: time and just get it out of your system.
• 22:12
  Speaker 6: I'm always going to say allegedly, you know, okay, pulling
• 22:15
  Speaker 6: your util someone's convicted.
• 22:16
  Speaker 5: I would eligibly.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: But yeah, seriously on this topic, let me understand something.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Tom Smith joining me. You know, I know what Dubay
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: is going to say because he's like programmed. Uh, and
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: I'll deal with him in just a moment. But Tom
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Smith joined me, joining me, former NYPD detective, co hosts
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: gold Shields podcast. Tom, why is this bastackwards? Because if
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: you and I, this is a tired one. But I'll
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: use it because it makes sense. Go into a bank
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: and I say, okay, we're not going to shoot anybody, right,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: and you go absolutely not. I just want the money.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: We go in, you take out an oozy. It'spraay the place. Ah,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: what did we just not say we're not shooting anybody?
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Guess what? I'm charged with murder? So why is the
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: adult in the car in his as Gorniac said, door
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: dash drugs? Why is he not charged with murder felony?
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Murder felony, The underlying felony is the aggravated assault. I
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: don't care if he didn't pull the shaker. That is
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: not the black and white letter of the law. Just
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: like I'm gonna get charged with murder because you shot
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: the bank teller.
• 23:33
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I'd be charging wall with murder. And here's why.
• 23:35
  Speaker 8: Here's my part. He had an opportunity to drive away
• 23:39
  Speaker 8: to watch that video. He closed the door before the
• 23:42
  Speaker 8: victim's car got there. He could have very easily just
• 23:44
  Speaker 8: driven away and gotten out of that area. He chose
• 23:47
  Speaker 8: to stay so his guys that are in the backseat
• 23:49
  Speaker 8: of that car could take care of business.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: He waits for the driver to get back, he waits
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: for the shooter to get back in the car, and
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: then takes off and they hide out. And here is
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: an another thing, Tom Smith, you know what, let me
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: try this one out on Philip Dubay Defense attorney Dobay.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: As we all know, under the law, there is explicit
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: intent where I say, Philip d Bay, I'm gonna shoot
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: you dead, and bang, I do it. That's explicit, I
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: state it. Then there is implicit intent where I don't
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: say anything, I snink up behind you and shoot me
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: in the back of the head and you die. My
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: actions implicitly prove I meant to kill you. In this case,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: you have the only adult in the car, Isaia Gomez,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: delivering dope in a residential neighborhood two children. The mom
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: chases after him with Grandma is the driver and she's
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: the wingman. They chase down the dopers. He's got a
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: guy in the back seat with a gun and he
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: unlet's the shooter get out, pull off a couple of
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: round sheet mommy, and then take off. He's part of it.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Why is he not charged with felony murder underlying felony
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: ag assault.
• 25:13
  Speaker 7: It's like a law school exam. But what happened was
• 25:16
  Speaker 7: back in January of twenty nineteen, California change the felony
• 25:21
  Speaker 7: murder doctrine where eight ers and a betters cannot be
• 25:25
  Speaker 7: held accountable for the underlying homicide unless they were the
• 25:29
  Speaker 7: actual shooter, intended to kill, or they acted in reckless
• 25:34
  Speaker 7: disregard for human life. So it's going to be a
• 25:38
  Speaker 7: tough call for a jury to say that he was
• 25:42
  Speaker 7: in on the murder. Now, he obviously was there to
• 25:45
  Speaker 7: deliver vape pen.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Why is he driving this guy around with a gun, Well,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: that's a different question.
• 25:51
  Speaker 7: Doesn't mean that he was in on a killing of
• 25:53
  Speaker 7: this particular victim. You had to understand this was a
• 25:56
  Speaker 7: very unplanned, sort of spontaneous act. Car pulls up mid traffic,
• 26:00
  Speaker 7: gets out with pepper spray, then boom, the gun goes off.
• 26:04
  Speaker 7: It's not as if this whole thing was rehearsed and
• 26:06
  Speaker 7: pre planned. Nobody knew she was going to come up
• 26:08
  Speaker 7: on them like that, and if he did not know.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: That, the guy the gun dobey making the argument that
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: the mother of a is the bad guy in this Samaria,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: let me ask you a question, Philip, do Bay do
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: you have a gun on you right now?
• 26:23
  Speaker 8: No?
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Oh? Why? Because you don't plan on shooting anybody today,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: right or at least not in the studio.
• 26:30
  Speaker 10: Correct.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: I don't have a gun either, because I'm not planning
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: to gun down well, not now anyway, Jackie sitting over there.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: When you show up with a gun to make drug deliveries,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: I think the intent is clear. If anybody messes with you,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: they're going to get shot. And this guy the only
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: adult in the car. He is the one, pardon the comparison,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: he's driving this car. He's literally driving the car. And
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: without him this wouldn't happen because the others don't have
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: a car to drive. He is the one running the show.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: He's more than an eight or and a better. This
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: is his plan.
• 27:12
  Speaker 7: Got under California law. Under California law, he's only liable
• 27:15
  Speaker 7: for the underlying felony, which is constructive possession of a
• 27:19
  Speaker 7: gun you know that, or accessory after the fact, which
• 27:24
  Speaker 7: by the way, only carries three years here as a felony.
• 27:27
  Speaker 7: I mean, in theory, you can plead him out, let
• 27:31
  Speaker 7: him go do his three years at halftime, and he's done.
• 27:33
  Speaker 7: He can move on with his life. The actual shooter
• 27:36
  Speaker 7: is the one who's in big trouble. Unless they can
• 27:39
  Speaker 7: show that that driver was in on it, had the
• 27:41
  Speaker 7: intent to kill, or acted in reckless disregard with actual
• 27:46
  Speaker 7: indifference to human life, he is not liable for the
• 27:49
  Speaker 7: murder itself under our abrogated felony murder doctrine.
• 27:53
  Speaker 11: Out Here units responded. They found the young woman suffering
• 27:57
  Speaker 11: from one they provided hey. She unfortunately passed away, and
• 28:03
  Speaker 11: within minutes our patrol team and our special resources team
• 28:07
  Speaker 11: sprung into action, identifying the vehicle, locating in the vehicle,
• 28:13
  Speaker 11: and then quickly taking three suspects in a custody within
• 28:16
  Speaker 11: the next twelve hours.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know how difficult it really was to find them.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Because grandma had a license tag and she gave it
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: to police that was trapped back immediately to a location
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: on Hilton Street not far away, and there it was
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: the blue Toyota Sedan eate four door. It's reminiscent of
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: how cars very often help you find your killer. Of course,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: there's those times, so you've got the car and you
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: still don't find the killer, you have to be hit
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: over the head with the car. In Long Island's serial
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: killer case, Rex Huerman who's responsible for at least five
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: women's death and emphasis on at least and would just
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: bury them along Gilgo Beach so he could pass by
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: them every morning on the way to work. He had
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: his Chevy Avalanche, no longer in production, into production I
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: think in twenty thirteen. His Chevy Avalanche was spotted by
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: multiple witnesses and it was part outside his house the
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: whole time. But it wasn't put together. Two and two
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: necessarily did not equal four in that case, so he
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: could continue killing women. In this case, Oakland PD follow
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: up on the tag, they find the blue Toyota four door,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: and they immediately get the adult. In this scenario, but
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: listen to this, all that hard police work is for naught.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: One of the sixteen year olds is released and not
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: charged in the killing, while the other is charged with murder.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: That team remains behind bars at the Alameda County Juvenile Hall.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: It is not yet been decided if he'll be charged
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: as an adult. The driver, Isaiah Gomez, says he's not
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: guilty to accessory after the fact and is released on bond,
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: ordered to wear an ankle monitor.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm going to go out
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: to Rachel Swan. Rachel, is this correct? One of the
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: teams is released and not charged, the adult is released
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: with nothing but an ankle monitor, and the third one
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: is looking at being charged as in juvenile so he'll
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: probably get out if he does time at all in
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: two years. Did the adult in this scenario actually walk
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: out with nothing but an ankle monitor?
• 30:56
  Speaker 6: Well, I mean there are actually some other conditions, but
• 31:00
  Speaker 6: you know, I think he I believe he also has
• 31:02
  Speaker 6: to do. I believe he also has to do some programs.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: You know, So there are some programs like what don't
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: she mothers of eight dead on the sidewalk? What kind
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: of program does he have to do? Because normally programs
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: are enforced as sentencing.
• 31:19
  Speaker 6: If memory serves me, there's a jobs program, But I
• 31:22
  Speaker 6: mean there's a there's usually like in editions.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: But so he takes part and gunning down a mother
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: of eight, and we're going to help him find a job.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: We're putting him in a job's program. That's his punishment.
• 31:37
  Speaker 6: I mean, I I do if if memory serves me.
• 31:40
  Speaker 6: When I looked at the court documents, there are a
• 31:42
  Speaker 6: couple other conditions in addition to the main. One was
• 31:45
  Speaker 6: that he has to wear a GPS monitor, which we
• 31:48
  Speaker 6: sometimes call an ankle bracelet.
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: So he's out of jail now.
• 31:55
  Speaker 6: He has pled not guilty, as he said, he has
• 31:59
  Speaker 6: to appear back in court and he will face a trial.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: And he has to wake up every morning and make
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: his bed and brush his teeth. Okay, what is wrong
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: with this scenario, doctor Jori?
• 32:14
  Speaker 9: Yeah, well, I mean you have to look at you know,
• 32:17
  Speaker 9: the the governance of the population. Society has changed, not
• 32:24
  Speaker 9: for the better. I mean, you know, you look at
• 32:28
  Speaker 9: this violence, and by design, you can look at this
• 32:33
  Speaker 9: group working as a business. The driver, the adult, the
• 32:36
  Speaker 9: younger ones are going to carry the weapons and do
• 32:39
  Speaker 9: the enforcement because just what you're seeing, they're not charged
• 32:43
  Speaker 9: as adults. Here in Florida. I can remember a time
• 32:47
  Speaker 9: when we had seven twelve year olds booked for first
• 32:52
  Speaker 9: degree murder. They were actually hired in gangs to kill rivals. Okay,
• 32:59
  Speaker 9: So I mean that's a social cultural shift, a major one.
• 33:04
  Speaker 9: Uh when you look at the average.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Holder, this is the moment, doctor Jerey crawsing, You're absolutely correct.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: But I'm going to get to Tom Smith very quickly,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: jumping off what you just said. Tom Smith, former NYPD.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Tom is the oldest story in the book. I remember
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: the first case felony case I ever had. I got
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: sent over to juvenile to find a witness. I'm like, uh,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: what I want a seven year old witness? But okay,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: I went over there. It wasn't the witness, it was
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: the defendant was a little boy. And this is how
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: it works. Adults use children and teens because they'll get
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: The most they can get is five years. That's the
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: most they can get. In juvenile. They'll probably do one
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: to two years in a dormitory setting. So if that
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: and that's highly unlikely. So adults, like the adult here
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: gets children or teens to hold the dope and the guns.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Why because they'll go to The adult will go to
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: jail four twenty to life. The team will be out
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: in a matter of months and get right back out
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: on the street. As Crosin was saying, this is one
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: of the oldest stories, the oldest plans and the playbook
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: for drug lords and dope dealers. Use teens, use children
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: while you supervise them, so you don't go to jail.
• 34:35
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: And here's the other thing.
• 34:36
  Speaker 8: The criminals today know the criminal justice system and policies
• 34:40
  Speaker 8: and laws better than anyone. They know what they can
• 34:43
  Speaker 8: get away with, They know who they can use to
• 34:45
  Speaker 8: get away with certain crimes. And this is a perfect
• 34:47
  Speaker 8: example of that. They know the laws in California are lenient,
• 34:52
  Speaker 8: and what's going to happen to them, Absolutely nothing. They
• 34:55
  Speaker 8: get an ankle monitor and a court date later on
• 34:58
  Speaker 8: down the line.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Caught on the the horrific moment a mother of eight,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: just thirty three years old is brutally executed. Why she
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: confronted the dope dealers trying to sell her children weed listen.
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: Blanca Velasko is speaking with several media outlets to keep
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: Maria's name in the news. Velasco hopes the media attention
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: will help get justice for her daughter's murder. Velasco is
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: now taking care of Maria's eight children and is struggling
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: to explain what happened to their mother.
• 35:32
  Speaker 12: She told KPIX, the fifteen, the thirteen, and the eleven,
• 35:36
  Speaker 12: they know that mom is gone. The other five I
• 35:41
  Speaker 12: haven't had the courage to tell them.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: That's for our forensic KPIs and more.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Blanco Velasko is speaking out about her daughter's murder, hoping
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: for change in Oakland. Maria Ramos's shooting is receiving increased
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: media attention, as the mom of eight was shot in
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: broad daylight while she was just trying to protect her children.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Velasco detailed has last comments for NBC Bay Area.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: I started rubbing her and told her, breathing with me.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Now you know we still need you. You haven't kids
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: that still need you. That from our friends at NBC
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Bay Area. I was just thinking about her original statement.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: The fifteen to thirteen and the eleven year old, they
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: know Mommy's gone. The other five I haven't had the
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: courage to tell them yet. The other five children don't
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: even know their mom is dead. It's not the first
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: time that a mother has been attacked right in front
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: of her children.
• 36:42
  Speaker 13: Listen, you've got a mom and her three boys going
• 36:46
  Speaker 13: to an afternoon dental appointment. You've got traffic on the road,
• 36:51
  Speaker 13: and missus Bigelow is trying to move to her right
• 36:55
  Speaker 13: to get out of the way for an emergency vehicle
• 36:57
  Speaker 13: that's trying to pass. She apparently cuts off Jeremy Webster,
• 37:03
  Speaker 13: a twenty three year old man. He then follows her,
• 37:08
  Speaker 13: terrorizing the family as they go down the road.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: So just following mom and her three little boys wasn't enough, listen.
• 37:17
  Speaker 14: Jeremy Webster follows Megan Bigelow into the parking lot and
• 37:20
  Speaker 14: blocks in her car. Webster and Bigelow exchange heated words
• 37:24
  Speaker 14: outside their cars. Webster then retrieves a gun and shoots
• 37:28
  Speaker 14: Megan in the back at head. As Meghan's sons try
• 37:31
  Speaker 14: to check on their mother, Webster shoots Vaughan thirteen, and
• 37:35
  Speaker 14: Asa eight. Webster shoots another bystander before taking off and
• 37:39
  Speaker 14: heading to his work shift. Vaughn dies in the parking lot. Meghan, Asa,
• 37:44
  Speaker 14: and the bystanders survive their injuries with extensive medical care.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: What is wrong with these people shooting at mom's and
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: even children, this time in the parking lot of the
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: dentist office and more.
• 37:58
  Speaker 14: Joanna Kloonan is taking her son Aiden to kindergarten driving
• 38:01
  Speaker 14: down a busy freeway when Marcus Aures cuts her off.
• 38:05
  Speaker 14: Kloonan flips Eric the bird and moves away from him,
• 38:08
  Speaker 14: but Eres follows her. Klouonan hears a loud noise. Then
• 38:12
  Speaker 14: Aiden six complains that his stomach hurts. Aiden is shot
• 38:16
  Speaker 14: by Marcus Aurez, finally identified through tips based off the
• 38:20
  Speaker 14: description of his Volkswagon golf sport wagon. Eres is charged
• 38:25
  Speaker 14: with murder, and girlfriend wyn Lee, who was riding with Ares,
• 38:29
  Speaker 14: is charged as an accessory, opening fire on mommy.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: And then ending up killing a six year old child.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: To Rachel Swan joining us with the San Francisco Chronicle,
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: what's next? Are we waiting to find out if the
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: juvenile who pulled the trigger is getting his milk and
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: cookies in JIV Hall?
• 38:50
  Speaker 5: You know, we don't really have access to the.
• 38:57
  Speaker 6: Sixteen year old Acus shooter's court records because because he
• 39:01
  Speaker 6: is because he is a juvenile, so none of that's public.
• 39:05
  Speaker 5: So honestly, I won't know, No one will know.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Thank you to all of
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: our guests for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Give my friend