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Indictment Eve · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: On today's show, Donald Trump prepares to be charged with
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: more crimes. Mike Pence and Chris Christie jump into the
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: race with some Pointed criticism of the man who almost
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: killed him. Matt Gaetz foils Kevin McCarthy's plan to protect
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: your gas stove. And later, White House Chief of Staff
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Jeff Zients stops by to talk to Dan about the
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: debt ceiling deal and what's next on Biden's agenda. But first,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: if you are in the San Francisco area, June 22nd
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: and 23rd. Sounds like you, Dan.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: I'm unfortunately out of town, but I am being blown
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: up with people looking for comp tickets to see Love It.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: It is Love It or Leave It, coming to San
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Francisco at the Palace of Fine Arts. Love It will
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: be joined by a great lineup of guests, including Chris Fleming,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Casey Newton, Dylan McKeever, Adam Savage, and some more surprise guests.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Head to crooked.com slash events to get your tickets today. Also,
• 1:17
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  Speaker 1: politics with a lot of national political themes in the backdrop.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Search for Dreamtown, the story of Adelanto, and listen for
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: free wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's get
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: to the news. So we are currently on... Trump indictment
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: watch again with multiple reports suggesting that the twice impeached
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: criminal defendant could be charged any day now with violating
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: the Espionage Act and obstructing justice in connection with classified information.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: He refused to give back to the government. We also
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: got reports that in addition to the grand jury in D.C.,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: special counsel Jack Smith has a second grand jury in Miami.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: where he is expected to possibly bring charges, and that
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: he also let the former president's lawyers know last week
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: that Trump is, in fact, a target of the investigation. Dan,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: care to comment on the unverified report that Jack Smith
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: has delayed the indictment so that it comes right after
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: we hit publish on this episode of Pod Save America?
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: I just hope when that moment comes, the appropriate people
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: in America thank us. Because if big news only breaks
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: after we pod, if we don't pod, no big news.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Look, I'm ready. I'm ready. I've got the afternoon cleared.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I'm ready to jump back into the studio. Just for
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: you people.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Clearing the afternoon was a huge mistake. That is messing
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: with the indictment karma gods.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Well, I am busy till around 1. So
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: it could happen up until 1.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I feel good. Just so people know on the timing,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: there was some news yesterday saying it could be today.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Others are saying that the fact that the Miami grand
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: jury was hearing witnesses just yesterday suggests that, yes, the
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: indictment is imminent, but imminent could be next week, week after.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: But more importantly, we are having a live show Monday
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: night in New York City with the New York attorney
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: general and Hillary Clinton. So maybe they could get it
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: done by then. Just maybe.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: It would be nice if them.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Who will think of the content, Dan?
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Our content, specifically. Our content.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Yes. Okay, so can you use the legal degree that
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: you got from Twitter and strict scrutiny to explain what
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: the flurry of developments over the last few days in
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: the classified documents case actually means?
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: So I want to try to do this in like
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: a Schoolhouse Rocks version of how do you imprison a
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: former president? We have to go back in time a
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: little bit because I do think that this has gotten–
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: there are so many cases. There's one in Fulton County.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: There's the one in New York with the Manhattan DA.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: There is what Jack Smith is doing. And so let's
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: go back. After there were It came out that Donald
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Trump was hoarding classified documents at his beach house. Merrick
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Garland appointed a special counsel named Jack Smith to investigate
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: all Trump investigations because Trump was running for president against
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden. It's pretty typical to have a special counsel
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: when there could be allegations of political interference. This is
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: exactly why the Republican deputy attorney general appointed Bob Mueller,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: our hero and savior, to investigate Donald Trump and the
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Russiagate and stuff. So Jack Smith impanels a grand jury
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: in Washington, D.C. to start hearing from witnesses. We don't
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: know a ton. Every once in a while, something leaks
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: out or a Trump witness goes out and says that
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: they got hauled in so that they can get their
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: story out there before Trump hits Truth Social to attack
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: them for whatever. And we kind of know that they
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: are looking at at least two things. One is classified documents.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: The other is what role Trump may have played in
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: trying to overthrow the election, either through violence on January
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: 6th or through a cocky maybe scam of fake electors.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: As you mentioned in your thing, a couple of important
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: things have happened in the last few weeks. Apparently, at
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: some point in May, Trump got what's called a target letter,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: which is when a federal investigator tells someone that they
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: are the subject of the investigation. They're not a witness.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: They might actually be the person charged. That is often
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: followed by a meeting. with the investigators. Last week, Trump's
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: attorneys went in there to meet with the Department of
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Justice to try to suss out the nature of the charges,
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: the state of the case. Based on Trump's all caps
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: truths after that, it appears the meeting did not go well.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: And so here we are, we are now waiting to
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: find out if and when, at least in the classified
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: documents cases, the one we understand according to reporting that
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Trump is the target in, when that indictment will come down.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Direct relationship between the number of capital letters and truths
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: from Trump and how he's feeling about the fact that
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: he may get indicted. So that's why when there's more caps,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: more truths, we're getting close, getting close to an indictment.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: That's usually the rule. Yeah, you don't want a target letter.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: You don't want a letter letting you know that you're
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: the target of a federal investigation. I have no legal degree,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: but that's just something that you want to avoid. What
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: do you think is going on with the second jury
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: in Florida?
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: It is an opportunity for everyone who is a lawyer,
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: went to law school, or met a lawyer to speculate
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: recklessly on Twitter about what it could mean. But I
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: will offer you the short menu of what are possible
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: options here. One is very simple logistics, which is Mar-a-Lago
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: is in Florida. A lot of the potential witnesses to
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Trump's potential crimes, like the people who work at Mar-a-Lago,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: the Secret Service agents, While in Florida, you can make
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: life easier on yourself and the witnesses to impanel a
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: grand jury in Florida so they can just like drive
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: there instead of flying to Washington, D.C. to appear before
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: that grand jury. It also can happen a little bit
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: more outside of the view of the press than when
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: they all get marched in front of the stakeout of
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: cameras at the D.C. federal courthouse. The other and I
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: think more likely reason based on some reporting from Carol
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Lenning at The Washington Post is that if Jack Smith
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: is going to try Trump, he wants to do it
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: in Florida. Because even though he legally could, because of
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: the nature of a crime like the Espionage Act or
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: obstruction of justice, he could charge it in DC. But
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: the argument for charging in Florida is if the case
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: is charged in DC, the very first thing Trump's attorneys
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: will do is run to Fox News. After that, they
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: will then file a motion to try to object to
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: the venue and try to have it moved to Florida,
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: which will take a bunch of time. And it is
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: very much in Jack Smith's interests for the country, for
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: the state of the case, to get it resolved as
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: fast as possible, especially before Donald Trump can pardon himself
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: potentially in January of 2025. And so while there's some
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: legal risk to this, different jury pool that may be
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: more favorable to Trump in Florida than Washington, D.C., certainly
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: based on partisanship, if you want to look at it
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: that way. You could get one of those crazy judges
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: like the.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Ones who– Eileen Cannon.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Eileen Cannon is an option there.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not good.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: But if we're trying to get to a resolution of
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: the case as quickly as possible, you might get a
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: delay in the indictment of a couple of weeks because
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Jack Smith then has to go to Florida and read
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: the Florida grand jury the testimony and evidence offered in Washington.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: But you might get a faster resolution of the case
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: if they go the Florida route.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: There's one more aspect to the venue question. Former Mueller
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: prosecutor Andrew Weissman, also Paz de America guest Andrew Weissman,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: He wrote up something today saying that Jack Smith has
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: to get the venue right, not just because of the
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: potential for delay, as you mentioned, but if you end
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: up going with the wrong venue and you get a conviction,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: but then on appeal, they say, oh, well, this was
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: never supposed to be tried in D.C. in the first place.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: The Supreme Court is currently hearing a case about whether
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: you can try the person again. just because the government
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: screwed up the venue. And we don't know what they've decided,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: but to be extra cautious, Jack Smith may bring charges
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: in both DC and Florida just to make sure he's
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: doing it right. But he may bring the bulk of
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: the charges in Florida just because he wants to play
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: it safe and does not want any risk of some
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: judge saying, by the way, it shouldn't have been in D.C.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: and now the whole case is gone. So, there you go.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: We've learned a lot about the law, is what I
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: would say.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: We've learned a lot about the law. I'll just say,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: my Twitter list of legal experts, they have a lot
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: to say. People seem very sure that he is getting indicted.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: More sure than they were before the Hush Money case.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: And partly that's based on just the mountain of evidence
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: that we know about over the last several months in
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: the Mar-a-Lago documents case, both on the taking the documents,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: withholding the documents, potentially obstructing justice, potentially disseminating classified information.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: It doesn't seem great. It doesn't seem great for him.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there are three pieces of evidence that have come
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: out in the last couple of weeks, and most likely
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: from grand jury witnesses who've been asked about this. The
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: first is the long voice memo that Trump's attorney dictated
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: to himself about his interactions with Trump on this case,
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: which became evidence because the fraud exception in attorney-client privilege
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: was found. Second, that Trump is reportedly on tape with
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: a group of people doing Mark Meadows' memoirs. admitting he
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: has a classified document that he can't show them, thus
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: proving he didn't declassify it, an argument he never really used.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: We talked about it last week. And then this thing
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: you guys talked about, about how they accidentally drained the
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: pool into the server room at Mar-a-Lago.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Who among us, you know? We also learned this week
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: that Trump's last chief of staff, Mark Meadows, has testified
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: before the grand jury in both the classified documents investigation
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: and the January 6th investigation. Again, my Twitter list of
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: legal experts all seem to think that was huge news.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Some were even saying it was bigger news than any
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: of the Mar-a-Lago stuff that happened this week. What do
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: you think?
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: I have the same list of Twitter lawyers, so I
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: feel exactly the same as you do. Mark Meadows is
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: important because he is one of the very few witnesses
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: who was in the White House when Trump packed up
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: all of his stuff, was in contact with Trump after
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: the White House, and was intimately involved with efforts around
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: the post-election insurrection planning, including being a person who was
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: in contact with the quote-unquote war room in Virginia with
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Roger Stone and the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: That's where the rally and eventual assault on the Capitol
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: were planned.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and of course, Cassidy Hutchinson testified in the January
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: 6th hearing that he said to her, January 6th could
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: be really bad, really bad. It sounds like he had
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: some knowledge that something might be going on. How are
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: you feeling? We talked about a little bit of this
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: on Tuesday, but gut feeling right now about the potential
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: political impact of an indictment in the classified documents case?
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Call me naive, call me a wild-eyed optimist, but I
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: just have to imagine that being charged with a crime
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: under the Espionage Act is not a political winner, even
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: in this Republican primary.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: I know. I feel the same way. I also think
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: the other difference between this case and the hush money
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: case is this is happening at a time where a
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: bunch of other Republican candidates have announced. A couple that
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: we're about to talk about have actually gone directly after Trump.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: And whether they attack Trump for this or not, if
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: he's indicted- Now Republican voters who are maybe feeling a
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: little hesitant about all the crimes, they have another place
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: to go because they are now starting to see other candidates.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: So I do think that's different. And I think it's
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: an easier case to understand than hush money. In the
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: hush money case, there was a lot of novel legal
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: theory commentary going on. This is not a novel legal theory.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: This is pretty straightforward. You can't steal classified information and
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: then hoard it in your beach house and then pass
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: it out to whoever you'd like and then obstruct justice
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: when they ask for it back. Pretty easy. All right, well,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: let's talk about the rest of the field. Mike Pence,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Chris Christie, and my man Doug Burgum are officially running
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: for president. The former vice president, who was nearly killed
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: by his own voters after Donald Trump attacked him for
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: not overturning the election, had some choice words for his
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: old boss in an announcement speech where he let it
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: all hang out.
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: I believe that anyone who puts themselves over the Constitution
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: should never be president of the United States.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: And anyone.
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: who asks someone else to put them over the Constitution
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: should never be President of the United States again. But
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: the American people deserve to know that on that day,
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: President Trump also demanded that I choose between him and
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: the Constitution. Now voters will be faced with the same choice.
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: I chose the Constitution, and I always will.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: It's a pretty good line. Would you say that Mike
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Pence is getting the hang of it?
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Once again, Mike Pence, the only person in polite society
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: you can make fun of third near murder.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Were you surprised that Pence went directly at Trump in
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: a way that was sharper than he ever has before?
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: And I know the answer is yes, because your first
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: draft of the outline was like Mike Pence did an announcement.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: and didn't really go after Trump, unlike Chris Christie. And boy,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: did Mike Pence prove you wrong.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: I would just note for the record that we work
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: under arduous deadlines at Positive America, so my outline was
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: done before the Pence speech, so I was wrong. Was
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: sharp the word you used there?
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: I originally thought about the word tougher, and then I
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: changed it to sharper, because I don't know if it
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: was tough, it was sharp.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: It was sharp compared to cotton.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, he said he should never be president.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I think you were grading him on a curve. And
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I think in the long history of attempted murder, no
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: attempted murder victim has ever had a more milquetoast response
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: to his attempted murder than Mike Pence did right there.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: If we stopped grading any of these Republicans on a curve,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: we would have nothing to talk about. They are all
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: on a curve right now.
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: Not our next guest.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Since 2016, we've been on a big old curve that
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: we're bringing all of them on. And you know what?
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Mike Pence, good for you. Good for you. Yeah, I
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: was a little surprised. I was a little surprised. But
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: I guess if the guy you're running against almost had
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: you killed and your whole claim to fame was that
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: one time at the very end of the first term,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: doing the right thing, might as well say something about it.
• 16:37
  Speaker 6: Sure.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Kudos.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Right? The Wi-Fi password at his event, at his announcement event,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: was kept his oath. That's the Wi-Fi. How do I
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: get on this Wi-Fi? It's kept his oath. So Pence
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: was later interviewed by Dana Bash during a CNN town hall.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: On the plus side, he said that unlike Trump, he...
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: wouldn't pardon the people convicted of crimes in connection with
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: January 6th. And he thinks that Vladimir Putin is a
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: war criminal, not a genius, as Trump said. On the
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: minus side, Pence refused to say whether he would pardon
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump, doesn't think that Trump should be indicted in
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: the classified documents case because even though he supports the
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: rule of law and thinks that no one should be
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: above the law, he thinks an indictment would be too divisive.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: And then he said this to Danabash about Trump. whether
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: he'd support Trump if he is the nominee.
• 17:33
  Speaker 7: You just spent a lot of time both here and
• 17:35
  Speaker 7: earlier today explaining why you think that the former president
• 17:40
  Speaker 7: did not uphold his oath to the Constitution. So then
• 17:44
  Speaker 7: how can you say that you would support him if
• 17:46
  Speaker 7: he's the nominee?
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: Well, because I don't think Donald Trump's going to be
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: the nominee. What if he is?
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: I don't think he's going to be the nominee.
• 17:52
  Speaker 7: What if he is?
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: I have great confidence in Republican primary voters. We have
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: a field of strong and experienced candidates that grew by
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: one today.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: I'm glad he has great confidence in Republican voters. These
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: are the same people who put up the gallows, started chanting,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: hang Mike Pence, just FYI. Why do you think that
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Pence was willing to tell people Donald Trump violated the
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Constitution and should never be president, but wasn't willing to
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: say he won't support him if he's the nominee?
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Because every Republican candidate has theoretically signed a loyalty pledge
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: put out by the RNC that if you want to
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: be on the debate stage, which all these candidates need
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: to be, they have to say they're willing to support
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: the nominee. Now, I think absent that loyalty pledge, they
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: would also support the nominee. I definitely believe that to
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: be the case, but the most technical reason is the
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: loyalty pledge.
• 18:49
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, if I was Mike Pence running for president,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: I was Chris Christie, and let's say I was going
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: to be courageous and that at the end of this nomination,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: if Donald Trump wins, I was going to say, no,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not supporting him. I would definitely say I'm supporting
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: him now because I need to get on that debate stage.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: It's the only chance these people have to win to
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: get on that debate stage. So, yeah. And guess who
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: lied about whether or not they'd support the nominee last time?
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Donald Trump also lied about whether he would
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: accept the results of the election. No one fucking cared.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: I also think everyone keeps dunking on these Republican candidates
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: for leaving open the idea that they will pardon Trump.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: And morally, that is an abhorrent position. Strategically, it's kind
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: of brilliant. Because here's what you want. If you win
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: the nomination, you want Trump to have some serious skin
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: in the game for your victory.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You want to dangle the pardon out there so
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: that he doesn't burn the whole fucking house down while
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: you're trying to run for president and win.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Now, Asa Hutchinson tried to, for those of you who
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: may have forgotten, which you are forgiven for, Asa Hutchinson,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Arkansas governor who is running for president on the Republican side,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: been very critical of Trump, he tried to square the
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: circle by saying that the RNC should change the pledge.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: So that you only, you don't have to support the
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: nominee if they've been convicted of espionage or another serious felony.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Which could happen to anyone.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, also, it's just so notable that you
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: feel so strongly about that it has to be put
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: in writing.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Mark Short, one of Pence's top advisors. He was top
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: advisor in the White House, now in the campaign. He
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: was also apparently crying during the announcement. He was so
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: moved by Mike Pence. He said to Dave Weigel at
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: Semaphore that they've seen focus groups, not that they've conducted,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: they've been shown focus groups where Republicans agree with what
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: Pence did on January 6th after they hear him lay
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: out his side of the story. And Mark Short's argument
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: is voters have only heard the mainstream media side of
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: the story on January 6th. Once they hear the conservative
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: side of the story from Mike Pence, that's going to
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: be our ticket to the nomination. Do you buy that?
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: And in general, what do you think Pence's theory of
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: the case is here?
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Well, let me answer your second question first. Pence's theory
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: of the case is the same theory of the case
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: that all of us have when we buy a Powerball ticket.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: It's like, we might win. It could happen. I don't know.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: If we do, it'd be cool. I do think it's
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: possible that there have been focus groups that show that
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: you can convince Republican voters to that Mike Pence's refusal
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: to commit treason is an acceptable thing. Because even for
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: all the Republicans who only believe that Trump won the election,
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: there was fraud, et cetera, most of them still don't
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: like what happened on January 6th, the day. So I
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: think you can probably sell people that. I think it
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: says a lot about the party that in the con
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: column for Mike Pence, for most voters, is that he
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: didn't commit treason. But we'll let them figure that out.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: The guy has higher negatives than any of his opponents.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: He has the highest negatives of anyone running Mike Pence.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Adam Wren wrote a piece for Politico about sort of
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: the Pence case, theory of the case. And it is
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: that Trump and DeSantis kill each other because they keep
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: going at each other the whole time, kill each other
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: in Iowa. And then Pence scoops up the evangelical vote
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: in that state because he's got a high name ID,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: probably because he's a white dude. He's going to visit
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: all 99 counties in Iowa. He's going to stake everything
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: on Iowa and hope that Trump and DeSantis just kind
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: of cancel each other out. And that's it. That's the
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Mike Pence theory.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: High name ID and high unfavorables is not a good thing.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Because people know you and they have formed an opinion.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the other new Republican candidate whose life
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump almost ended. His old debate coach, Chris Christie.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: No announcement video from Christie, no big teleprompter speech, just
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: a town hall where, as promised, he kicked the ever-living
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: shit out of Donald Trump. Let's listen.
• 23:09
  Speaker 8: A lonely, self-consumed, self-serving mirror hog is not a leader. Well,
• 23:17
  Speaker 8: let me be clear, in case I have not been already.
• 23:23
  Speaker 8: The person I am talking about is Donald Trump. I
• 23:26
  Speaker 8: am going out there to take out Donald Trump, but
• 23:28
  Speaker 8: here's why. I want to win, and I don't want
• 23:32
  Speaker 8: him to win. There are not multiple lanes to the
• 23:36
  Speaker 8: Republican nomination. There is one lane to the Republican nomination,
• 23:41
  Speaker 8: and he's in front of it. And if you want
• 23:43
  Speaker 8: to win, you better go right through him. The grift
• 23:46
  Speaker 8: from this family is breathtaking. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Kushner
• 23:51
  Speaker 8: walk out of the White House and months later get
• 23:53
  Speaker 8: $ 2 billion from the Saudis. You think it's because he's
• 23:57
  Speaker 8: some kind of investing genius? Or do you think it's
• 24:00
  Speaker 8: because he was sitting next to the President of the
• 24:02
  Speaker 8: United States for four years doing favors for the Saudis?
• 24:05
  Speaker 8: That's your money he stole and gave it to his family.
• 24:08
  Speaker 8: You know what that makes us? A banana republic. Because
• 24:11
  Speaker 8: he's the only person outside the state of Delaware to
• 24:15
  Speaker 8: have ever lost to Joe Biden. Every time before Donald
• 24:19
  Speaker 8: Trump that Joe Biden ever tried to run for anything
• 24:22
  Speaker 8: outside the tiny little state of Delaware, he lost. He
• 24:27
  Speaker 8: said once.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Because he got to run against Donald Trump. So my
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: first reaction to that clip when I heard the Jared
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: and Ivanka hit was that I didn't know that Tommy
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: and Ben were speechwriting for Chris Christie now.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Sending that clip to Tommy really made my week because
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: it made him so happy. He was so excited.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: So that was fun. What'd you think? What'd you think
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: of Chris Christie?
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: I think, well, after hearing that, the question I have
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: to ask is, How many delegates does the winner of
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Resistance Twitter get for the Republican nomination?
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Well, it depends on the delegates are awarded proportionally on
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: how many RTs you get.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: From the Krasensteins.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an RT-based allocation of delegates. So we'll see.
• 25:15
  Speaker 8: Okay.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: He's got a shot then.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: I loved it. Of course. Of course. How could you
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: not love that? Christie was later asked by Brett Baer,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: to reckon with his past support of Donald Trump. And
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: here's what he said.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: What changed?
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: He changed.
• 25:30
  Speaker 8: He changed in material ways. I've known him for 22 years.
• 25:34
  Speaker 8: And what I was hoping to do by endorsing him early,
• 25:37
  Speaker 8: recognizing that he had won in New Hampshire, he had
• 25:39
  Speaker 8: won in South Carolina, and almost won in Iowa.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: He was the nominee.
• 25:43
  Speaker 8: And I thought as a longtime friend, I could make
• 25:45
  Speaker 8: him a better candidate and a better president.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: I was wrong.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: You think that's good enough? And how much does it matter?
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: It matters.
• 25:54
  Speaker 8: A little.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: It's fine. Every one of these people have the same problem,
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: which is how do you make a case against Trump
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: when you were just slavishly defending every terrible thing he
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: did six months ago? And at least Christie says he's wrong.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, Mike Pence probably has the best version of this,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: which is he tried to kill me. And that really
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: opened my eyes to the problem.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: I guess Christie.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Could have just said that too.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Talk about a deathbed conversion, you know?
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's fine. It's fine as an answer. Chris Christie's
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: inability to reckon with his previous support or his challenges
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: reckoning with his previous support is not his biggest problem.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: His biggest problem is Republicans hate him.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 26:33
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: He has a minus 51% net approval among Republicans.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Just slightly beating out Pence. There was one poll that
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: had 60% of Republicans say they won't even consider Chris
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Christie as a potential nominee. No, you won't even consider 60%.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: That's tough. That's a tough path.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not, well, I mean, UK, I mean, that's
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: 40% is Trump won with less than 40% in 2016.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: So you just got to consolidate every other single human
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: being on the planet. You can win.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: So yeah, obviously, as you said, all of these people
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: who are taking on Trump have issues and that they
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: all supported Trump and basically said nothing during the whole
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: time he was president. Here's the thing. I don't really care.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: I don't care because I don't care if the people
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: who kick the shit out of Trump are heroes or
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: assholes or hypocrites. I just care that they're kicking the
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: shit out of Trump. And I especially don't care about
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Chris Christie because he's not going to be president. He's
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: not going to win this nomination. And if he wants
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: to go down just every day kicking the shit out
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: of Donald Trump And actually criticizing him like he should
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: be criticized and not doing the whole. It was also
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: funny listening to this like mocking thing about the other
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: candidates being like, there's someone that I won't name who's,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: you know, is not good, blah, blah, blah. And he
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: was like making fun of that. I like that. Good.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Go for it. You know, and if that gets a
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: bunch of media attention because the media likes conflict and
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: someone actually kicking the shit out of Trump, then great. Perfect.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Go for it. Have a blast.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: I think it's probably Christie's best strategy. Like you said,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: he's almost certainly not going to win, but he understands that.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: So he is trying to have a different strategy than
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: all these other yahoos. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: but it's high variance. And that's what you need with
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: your launch.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Maggie Haberman said that it was, um, difficult to find
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: actual Republican voters at Christie's town hall. And that apparently
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: almost every single voter that the, they talked to, uh,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: was a registered independent. If you want to stop Trump, um,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: don't you actually have to talk to Republican voters at
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: some point?
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's just, he's warming up. Let him just
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: like walk into the pool slowly, right? Get used to it.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: He did go on Fox and have that interview with
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Brett Baer where he said he was wrong. But it is,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: it does crystallize why he needs the debate so badly,
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: maybe more than anyone else. Because if he doesn't get
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: on that debate stage, like where is he getting his
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: message out aside from, you know, the liberal media that
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: can't be trusted?
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he absolutely needs to be on the debate stage.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Trump should not want him on the debate stage because
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: he's pretty good at this. As a just political performer,
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: he is leaps and bounds better than everyone else on
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: that stage except for Trump. I mean, Pence has no personality.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: DeSantis is awkward. Haley's not that great. Tim Scott. I mean,
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: I don't think Doug Burgum, your boy, is making the stage.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, it's better TV for all of
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: America and more challenging for Trump if he gets there.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: So I hope he gets there.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: I do think it's a challenge if uh, if Trump
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: doesn't show up.
• 29:39
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Then, then I don't know what Christie does. I guess
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Christie then just has a chance to whack Trump for
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: an hour and a half.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: It's like when they would do the junior varsity debates
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: on the Republican science 2016. And then like Lindsey Graham
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: would really like show out like, uh, against the, you know,
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Carly Fiorina or whoever else the other
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: people were up there. And so I'm sure he'll look
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: great compared to these other people.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: We haven't talked about this yet, but what do you
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: think about like so the Iowa caucuses go first. There
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: is no Democratic Iowa caucus this time around, just Republicans.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: And then in New Hampshire, of course, you know, independents
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: can jump into the primary and there won't really be
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: a Democratic primary in New Hampshire either. So do you
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: think that like part of a strategy for Christie could
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: be getting Democrats and independents to vote for him in
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: the primary? just as a way to stop Trump? Is
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: that like a realistic possibility?
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's a real strategy, but because independents
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: can vote in either primary just by showing up on
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: that day or non, I don't even think they're technically independents,
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: I think so there's non-party affiliated MPA voters. The role
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: they play in an individual party's primary is dictated by
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: what's happening on the other side of the ballot. One
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: of the theories for why Obama underperformed in New Hampshire
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: in 2008 is a lot of independent voters thought that
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Obama had it locked up. So some of them voted
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: for McCain because they had previously supported– there was some
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: overlap in Obama-McCain voters. You could see a world in
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: which if Christie– I mean, what are we talking about here?
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: This is insane. This is a stupid thing.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: To talk about. Yeah. Well, Christy or someone else, I'm
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: wondering about sort of just in general the capacity for
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Democrats and independents to meddle in the Iowa caucuses and
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: the New Hampshire primary on the Republican side.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't think they can meddle in
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: the caucus on the Republican side. I think they would
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: have to re-register as Republicans in Iowa, I think. The
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Democratic caucus was open to independents. I don't think the
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Republican one is, but I could be wrong. I think
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: that's all on the margins.
• 31:45
  Speaker 7: I think.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: The increased number of independent voters who will be voting
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: in the Republican primary in New Hampshire will have an impact.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's part of a specific strategy. It's
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: just the fact that there's not a competing Democratic primary happening.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: But I don't think there's going to be– you can
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: already see these people like re-registering as Republicans to vote
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: for Christie or some dumb shit like that. Even if
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: that happens, that's not going to– I think that is
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: not mathematically significant.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: Got it.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, so when we come back, Dan talks to White
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: House Chief of Staff, Jeff Zients.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Joining us now for the first time on Pod Save
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: America is White House Chief of Staff, Jeff Zients. Jeff,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: welcome to the pod.
• 32:37
  Speaker 6: Well, thank you for having me. I'm a big listener.
• 32:39
  Speaker 6: And Dan, it's great to see you.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: It's good to see you. Congratulations on surviving your first
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Debt limit crisis as chief of staff, that's no small thing?
• 32:47
  Speaker 6: No, it was an incredible case study in leadership, starting
• 32:51
  Speaker 6: with the president and the teamwork here, both at the
• 32:54
  Speaker 6: White House and working across the agency and with the Hill,
• 32:59
  Speaker 6: I think was just A plus. And I think that
• 33:01
  Speaker 6: was how we got the outcome we got, which I
• 33:03
  Speaker 6: think is a good outcome for the American people.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: I want to, we'll get a little bit into what's
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: in the deal, but I want to start a little
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: bit with what you mentioned is the president's leadership. Because
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: there have been debt limit deals before, there have been
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: budget deals before, but this president's operating in sort of
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: a different kind of politics than we've had, or a worse,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: maybe a worse kind of politics. Just what does it
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: say about Joe Biden and how he goes about politics
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: that he's able to strike deals like this with a
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Republican party that the vast majority of whom refuse to
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: acknowledge that he even won the presidency legitimately. They go
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: after his family. They go after his health. What was
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: his approach to getting this done with this group of people?
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: Look, I think this is a natural gift to the presidents,
• 33:46
  Speaker 6: but he also spent a lot of time, decades, on
• 33:49
  Speaker 6: the Hill. And then, as you know, Dan, we worked
• 33:52
  Speaker 6: with him for eight years as vice president, and now
• 33:56
  Speaker 6: a couple of, I think, historic years as president. He's
• 34:00
  Speaker 6: a leader, and he's experienced, and he's wise. And I
• 34:04
  Speaker 6: think from the beginning, he said, this is going to
• 34:07
  Speaker 6: take time. It's going to have its ups and downs.
• 34:10
  Speaker 6: We can't overreact to either when it feels really good
• 34:13
  Speaker 6: or when it feels really bad. We've got to play
• 34:15
  Speaker 6: the long game here. And my first night of work
• 34:20
  Speaker 6: was the State of the Union. So those few days
• 34:23
  Speaker 6: before the State of the Union, when Ron was winding
• 34:25
  Speaker 6: down as chief of staff and I was cranking up,
• 34:29
  Speaker 6: I spent time in the rehearsals for the State of
• 34:32
  Speaker 6: the Union.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: Dan, you remember those sessions.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I do, yes.
• 34:35
  Speaker 6: The State of the Union is a big deal because
• 34:38
  Speaker 6: it brings together the priorities for the upcoming year or
• 34:42
  Speaker 6: two of the presidency. So you can imagine the process
• 34:45
  Speaker 6: that goes into figuring out what the most important priorities are,
• 34:48
  Speaker 6: how to frame them for the American people. So I
• 34:50
  Speaker 6: sat in on a couple of those sessions. And central
• 34:54
  Speaker 6: to it was Social Security and Medicare. And the fact
• 34:57
  Speaker 6: that we were not going to undermine the Social Security
• 35:03
  Speaker 6: system or Medicare, which tens of millions of Americans rely on. Now,
• 35:08
  Speaker 6: we didn't know that someone would shout out from the
• 35:11
  Speaker 6: Republican caucus that the president wasn't telling the truth when
• 35:15
  Speaker 6: he pointed out that some Republicans wanted to cut Social
• 35:18
  Speaker 6: Security and Medicare. But the great news is within a
• 35:23
  Speaker 6: matter of a few weeks, weeks, the Republicans had taken
• 35:27
  Speaker 6: Social Security and Medicare off the table. So the president's leadership,
• 35:31
  Speaker 6: I think, on the debt ceiling really began that night
• 35:35
  Speaker 6: at the State of the Union when he protected Social
• 35:37
  Speaker 6: Security and Medicare. And throughout, it was his strategy and
• 35:42
  Speaker 6: his leadership and our teamwork that I described earlier that
• 35:45
  Speaker 6: enabled us to get to this point. You know, at
• 35:48
  Speaker 6: the end, Dan, those last several days, you can imagine
• 35:52
  Speaker 6: If you were in your old job as communications director,
• 35:57
  Speaker 6: leader of the White House, the pressure that Anita Dunn
• 36:00
  Speaker 6: and team were under to punch back as Republicans were
• 36:06
  Speaker 6: criticizing the president as they were declaring victory. And the
• 36:11
  Speaker 6: president's instruction to all of us was, let's give this
• 36:15
  Speaker 6: negotiation the space that it needs. I think we're headed
• 36:18
  Speaker 6: to a good outcome, particularly in this context of divided
• 36:22
  Speaker 6: government for the American people and for Democrats. Let's be patient.
• 36:25
  Speaker 6: Let's play the long game. And that's what led to
• 36:27
  Speaker 6: that discipline. that I think was hard to implement, but
• 36:31
  Speaker 6: was absolutely hard to be disciplined about at times. But
• 36:34
  Speaker 6: I think we did a really good job of implementing
• 36:36
  Speaker 6: and it really mattered. And again, that was the president's direction.
• 36:39
  Speaker 6: In the middle, we were under a lot of pressure, Dan,
• 36:41
  Speaker 6: as you know, to negotiate. McCarthy kept saying, it's been
• 36:45
  Speaker 6: 50 days since we've met.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: It's been 70 days.
• 36:50
  Speaker 6: Well, the president was very clear when they first met,
• 36:53
  Speaker 6: and that was also just around the State of the Union,
• 36:55
  Speaker 6: that he was gonna put out his budget, which would
• 36:58
  Speaker 6: show our plan for deficit reduction. It had over $ 3
• 37:00
  Speaker 6: trillion of deficit reduction. Importantly, it had new revenue, corporations
• 37:06
  Speaker 6: paying their fair share, wealthy individuals, the average billionaire pays 8%,
• 37:11
  Speaker 6: the idea of a minimum tax on billionaires. So billionaires
• 37:14
  Speaker 6: pay their fair share the same way teachers and firefighters
• 37:18
  Speaker 6: do who now pay more on a percentage basis by
• 37:21
  Speaker 6: a multiple than the average billionaire. Having revenue in an
• 37:25
  Speaker 6: equation when you're putting together a budget is really important.
• 37:28
  Speaker 6: It's not just about spending. The Republicans only want to
• 37:31
  Speaker 6: focus on spending. So having the Republicans asking McCarthy to
• 37:36
  Speaker 6: first put forward his plan for deficit reduction before in
• 37:42
  Speaker 6: a budget and priority. So he would contrast our priorities,
• 37:46
  Speaker 6: our values with the Republican values was something the president
• 37:49
  Speaker 6: said in that very first meeting. And we kept insisting
• 37:51
  Speaker 6: upon that. And then, you know, what was it? Three
• 37:53
  Speaker 6: months later, they passed the bill, which showed their priorities
• 37:58
  Speaker 6: and their values. And they're very, very different than our
• 38:01
  Speaker 6: democratic values and the president's values. And at the end
• 38:03
  Speaker 6: of the day, making sure that they put their priorities
• 38:06
  Speaker 6: on the table before we begin to negotiate was hard
• 38:09
  Speaker 6: day to day, absolutely right answer that the president had
• 38:13
  Speaker 6: and the team executed well against that too.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Was that the pivot point when you went from, you know,
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: the president started this out saying, I'm not going to negotiate.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: That's been sort of an article of faith among Democrats
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: since President Obama went through this when you and I
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: were in the White House in 2013. To go from saying,
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to negotiate to sitting down with McCarthy
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: and having his team do it? Was that the point?
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: And when they put their budget out, how did that
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: pivot happen?
• 38:38
  Speaker 6: Look, the president always had a framework that said, we're
• 38:41
  Speaker 6: not going to negotiate over the debt ceiling. We will
• 38:44
  Speaker 6: negotiate over the budget. Show me your budget. Here's my budget.
• 38:47
  Speaker 6: Here's my values. Here's my deficit reduction. Here's my new
• 38:51
  Speaker 6: sources of revenue from, as I said, large corporations, closing
• 38:55
  Speaker 6: tax loopholes, billionaires paying their fair share. Once we got
• 39:01
  Speaker 6: the so-called plan of the Republicans on the table, there
• 39:04
  Speaker 6: wasn't a lot of detail, but it certainly gave a
• 39:07
  Speaker 6: direction of where they wanted to head. At that point,
• 39:10
  Speaker 6: we entered into the budget negotiations. Clearly, having the debt
• 39:13
  Speaker 6: ceiling created pressure to get to the budget agreement we did.
• 39:18
  Speaker 6: And we can talk more later about that's not a
• 39:20
  Speaker 6: great system to govern or legislate in this country. And
• 39:24
  Speaker 6: how do we change that going forward? But I think
• 39:26
  Speaker 6: where we've come out of here, which is a two-year
• 39:28
  Speaker 6: extension of the debt ceiling with all the president's priorities
• 39:32
  Speaker 6: from infrastructure to the Chips and Science Act, to clean
• 39:35
  Speaker 6: energy investments, to reducing prescription drug costs and reducing Medicare prices,
• 39:41
  Speaker 6: not coverage, prices or costs for the US government is really,
• 39:45
  Speaker 6: really important. All of the president's priorities were protected. even
• 39:49
  Speaker 6: though the Republicans wanted to undo a lot of those things.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Now, I know two years is a long time from now,
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: but it's going to be here very fast. This agreement
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: will expire in January of 2025. If and when the
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: president is reelected, one of the first things he's going
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: to have to deal with is the debt limit all
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: over again. When the president was asked about this right
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: after the the agreement was struck, he brought up the
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: idea of potentially looking at the 14th Amendment next time.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: How are you guys thinking about avoiding going down this path?
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: Because the outcome you got, both in terms of the
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: substance of the deal and avoiding the damage to the
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: economy was great this time, but that may not happen
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: next time.
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: I agree with you, Dan.
• 40:29
  Speaker 6: I mean, you know, divided government is difficult and you
• 40:32
  Speaker 6: don't get everything you want. But I agree with you, Ned,
• 40:34
  Speaker 6: we did very, very well under the president's leadership here.
• 40:37
  Speaker 6: As I said a few minutes ago, this is not
• 40:39
  Speaker 6: the way to run an operation, to run the railroad.
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: If you will.
• 40:43
  Speaker 6: The idea that every year or two, you have a
• 40:46
  Speaker 6: debt ceiling and that creates this pressure. So we need
• 40:49
  Speaker 6: to figure out if we can fix that. And we
• 40:53
  Speaker 6: will be looking at that. You know, you mentioned the
• 40:55
  Speaker 6: 14th Amendment. What other legal or constitutional changes? avenues should
• 41:00
  Speaker 6: we look at in addition to potentially the 14th Amendment?
• 41:03
  Speaker 6: Are there legislative fixes? But whether it's a Democrat in
• 41:07
  Speaker 6: the White House or a Republican in the White House,
• 41:11
  Speaker 6: independent of what the composition is of the Senate or
• 41:13
  Speaker 6: the House, we should get out of this.
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: This is not a good way to run a country
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: or to legislate.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: After the deal was struck, one of the in the
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: White House, the President and the White House staff were
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: talking about sort of what you got out of this deal.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: There was the as you've mentioned very critically, protecting the
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: president's priorities through certainly the balance of his term and
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: into the future. But he also talked about running room,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: that having this behind you meant the White House can
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: be able to do more. What is sort of on
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: the agenda next? How are you going to use that
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: running room?
• 41:43
  Speaker 6: It's a good question, Dan. And we're really excited to
• 41:45
  Speaker 6: have that running room. If you will, we've been parallel processing,
• 41:49
  Speaker 6: as the president says, we can walk and chew gum
• 41:52
  Speaker 6: at the same time. So it's a lot of continuation
• 41:55
  Speaker 6: of of what we've been doing, but we can now
• 41:57
  Speaker 6: focus on it even more. So with these historic pieces
• 42:00
  Speaker 6: of legislation, it creates this enormous opportunity.
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: To invest in America.
• 42:06
  Speaker 6: New bridges, new factories, more prescription drug costs that decreases,
• 42:13
  Speaker 6: pricing decreases that benefit the American people. There's so much
• 42:17
  Speaker 6: to do that is enabled by those historic pieces of legislation.
• 42:21
  Speaker 6: Our job now is to implement, execute, get things done
• 42:25
  Speaker 6: And then show the American people how this is changing
• 42:28
  Speaker 6: their lives day to day. Better jobs, less expensive health care.
• 42:33
  Speaker 6: And at the same time, there are things like junk fees.
• 42:38
  Speaker 6: We talked to the president going back to the State
• 42:40
  Speaker 6: of the Union, called for families to be able to
• 42:44
  Speaker 6: sit together when they travel on an airplane without having
• 42:46
  Speaker 6: to pay more money.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: That's happened. We're going to.
• 42:49
  Speaker 6: Continue to make people's lives better with jobs. Issues they
• 42:54
  Speaker 6: deal with every day, the cost of things, the ability
• 42:57
  Speaker 6: to get from point A to point B without sitting
• 43:00
  Speaker 6: in a lot of traffic, having better transportation options in
• 43:04
  Speaker 6: their cities and towns across the country. This manufacturing renaissance
• 43:09
  Speaker 6: is real. The amount of investment in manufacturing that's happening
• 43:12
  Speaker 6: across this country is completely unprecedented. And that's enabled by
• 43:17
  Speaker 6: the president's leadership in this historic legislation. But it's very much, obviously,
• 43:21
  Speaker 6: a public-private partnership that's working. So we've got a lot
• 43:25
  Speaker 6: to do, and we're doing it. And we've got to
• 43:28
  Speaker 6: just keep pushing on all fronts.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm sure the president will continue and want
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: to look for things to get done legislatively. Obviously, that's
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: probably a limited menu given– Certainly the position that Kevin
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: McCarthy finds himself in right now after this deal. But
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: one thing that actually has to get done from the
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: administration's point of view is more funding for Ukraine. Kevin
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: McCarthy came out the other day and said there would
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: not be a supplemental. How are you guys going to
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: approach making the case for additional funding to support Ukraine
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: against Russia?
• 44:00
  Speaker 6: Look, Ukraine is so important for the people in Ukraine,
• 44:05
  Speaker 6: for the people in Europe, and for the world. I mean,
• 44:07
  Speaker 6: this is about freedom. and protecting freedom. And I think
• 44:11
  Speaker 6: as we continue to support the Ukrainians and their tremendous
• 44:15
  Speaker 6: courage and performance, that people will continue to see that
• 44:21
  Speaker 6: appropriate funding from the US.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: And from our allies.
• 44:25
  Speaker 6: I think it's really important that this is part of
• 44:27
  Speaker 6: an effort that our allies are supporting the same way
• 44:30
  Speaker 6: we're supporting. It's really important, again, for the people of
• 44:33
  Speaker 6: Ukraine and for freedom around the world. So I think
• 44:35
  Speaker 6: this is a top priority. for the president. And I
• 44:39
  Speaker 6: think Congress will continue to support it.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: There is support. You believe there's support in the Republican,
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: among Senate Republicans for this. Do you think you can
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: pressure the House to go along?
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: I think so.
• 44:51
  Speaker 6: I mean, look, if you step back, you know, when
• 44:53
  Speaker 6: the president was campaigning and talked about bipartisanship, people sort
• 44:57
  Speaker 6: of scoffed like that doesn't exist anymore. But we've got,
• 45:01
  Speaker 6: you know, the agreement that we started talking about at
• 45:04
  Speaker 6: the beginning, which is so important in protecting the president's
• 45:08
  Speaker 6: priorities and Democrats' priorities and is so good for the
• 45:11
  Speaker 6: American people, was a bipartisan agreement. Now, at the end
• 45:13
  Speaker 6: of the day, Dan, I do want to put the
• 45:15
  Speaker 6: data on the table, which is 75% of the House
• 45:19
  Speaker 6: caucus supported the budget agreement. 90% of the Senate Democratic
• 45:24
  Speaker 6: caucus supported the agreement. I think if we were talking
• 45:28
  Speaker 6: four or five, six weeks ago, or four or five,
• 45:29
  Speaker 6: six months ago, you probably would have said, good luck with.
• 45:32
  Speaker 8: That one, right?
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: But those are the results. I did say that, yes.
• 45:37
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 45:37
  Speaker 6: But at the same time, You know, there were Republicans
• 45:40
  Speaker 6: supporting both the in both the Senate and the House,
• 45:43
  Speaker 6: and it was a bipartisan agreement, the same way the infrastructure,
• 45:46
  Speaker 6: historic infrastructure agreement law was bipartisan. So there are bipartisan opportunities.
• 45:52
  Speaker 6: There's been bipartisan support for Ukraine and our efforts to
• 45:56
  Speaker 6: support the people of Ukraine. And I believe that will
• 45:58
  Speaker 6: continue in both the Senate and the House.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: One of the elements of the budget deal involved ending
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: the pause on student loan payments, but you are also
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: dealing with, which I know the administration was planning to
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: do eventually anyway, but you're also awaiting a Supreme Court
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: decision on the student debt cancellation plan that the president
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: put in place. How much planning are you guys doing
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: to think around what would happen from an adverse ruling
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: from the Supreme Court?
• 46:25
  Speaker 6: Look, we believe the court's going to do the right thing.
• 46:28
  Speaker 6: We believe it's really important that people have relief. 90%
• 46:32
  Speaker 6: of the people who have relief have family.
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: Incomes less than $ 75, 000.
• 46:36
  Speaker 6: We're talking about $ 10, 000, $ 20, 000 relief that's really important. And
• 46:43
  Speaker 6: at the same time, I was with the president yesterday,
• 46:45
  Speaker 6: and we were talking about this very topic, Dan, the
• 46:47
  Speaker 6: importance of student debt relief.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: And he brought up the the.
• 46:53
  Speaker 6: Loans that people got or the grants that people got
• 46:56
  Speaker 6: for the PPP program and how that went to many
• 47:01
  Speaker 6: people who are now voting or pushing against student debt.
• 47:06
  Speaker 6: And you can't help but to contrast that and how
• 47:10
  Speaker 6: important this is for working class Americans, middle class Americans.
• 47:15
  Speaker 6: The president has done historic work on student debt relief
• 47:19
  Speaker 6: with the program that you're referring to that's in front
• 47:21
  Speaker 6: of the Supreme Court, where again, we hope that the
• 47:23
  Speaker 6: court does the right thing. You're right that that's likely
• 47:26
  Speaker 6: to come in the next week or two or three.
• 47:27
  Speaker 6: So we're watching very closely there. At the same time,
• 47:31
  Speaker 6: he's put in place income-based repayment programs.
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: So you're only paying a.
• 47:36
  Speaker 6: Certain percent of your income, an affordable amount of your
• 47:40
  Speaker 6: income each month on student debt and no more. And
• 47:43
  Speaker 6: that program's really important and is taken off. Also, relief,
• 47:49
  Speaker 6: student debt relief for public service, people who participate as
• 47:52
  Speaker 6: teachers or in the federal government or in state government,
• 47:55
  Speaker 6: really important. And the president is going to keep fighting
• 47:58
  Speaker 6: for student debt relief. And we will do that in
• 48:00
  Speaker 6: any outcome in the Supreme Court. But again, we're cautiously
• 48:03
  Speaker 6: optimistic that the court will do the right thing.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Last question for you. One of the issues that I
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: imagine probably wasn't at the top of the president's list
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: when he took over as president a couple years ago,
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: but has quickly risen in salience and concern among the
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: public and others is the rapid expansion of artificial intelligence.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: How are you guys thinking about a policy process, a
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: regulatory process to protect against whatever risks that even some
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: of the people building this technology say are existential?
• 48:34
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: No, Dan, it's probably.
• 48:36
  Speaker 6: one of the top three issues at the White House
• 48:39
  Speaker 6: and across agencies right now. We had the CEOs of
• 48:42
  Speaker 6: the leading companies in a couple of weeks ago. The
• 48:45
  Speaker 6: president came to that meeting, the vice president sat through
• 48:48
  Speaker 6: that meeting. It's a tip top priority. corporations, the leading corporations,
• 48:53
  Speaker 6: need to do the right thing, and they're stepping forward
• 48:55
  Speaker 6: with commitments that we're working on right now that will
• 48:59
  Speaker 6: be announced relatively shortly. We're working across all agencies of
• 49:03
  Speaker 6: the federal government to figure out what we can do
• 49:06
  Speaker 6: from a regulatory perspective so that we can do appropriate,
• 49:10
  Speaker 6: smart regulation here. One of the things that's really challenging, Dan,
• 49:15
  Speaker 6: when we worked together a decade ago, the regulatory process
• 49:20
  Speaker 6: can be relatively slow. And here we cannot afford to
• 49:25
  Speaker 6: wait a year or two to figure out what makes sense,
• 49:29
  Speaker 6: what smart regulation that balances the potential of AI to
• 49:34
  Speaker 6: make our lives better, but at the same time, make
• 49:36
  Speaker 6: sure we're managing the risk for it to do things
• 49:39
  Speaker 6: that would not be good for us.
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: Us here in our country or across the world.
• 49:43
  Speaker 6: So getting that balance right, being smart, but moving really
• 49:47
  Speaker 6: fast because AI changes every day. So it's not the
• 49:51
  Speaker 6: standard regulatory process of months or years. We've got to
• 49:55
  Speaker 6: act in a much quicker timeframe and we're geared up
• 49:57
  Speaker 6: to do that. And you'll see that the president will
• 50:00
  Speaker 6: continue to lead on AI. We'll do all we can
• 50:03
  Speaker 6: with our executive branch powers and also work with the
• 50:07
  Speaker 6: Hill to advance smart legislation.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: Well, we'll keep our eyes on that. Jeff, thank you
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: so much. Good luck out there. You have the hardest
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: job in all of politics.
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: Well, it's great to see you.
• 50:16
  Speaker 6: How can you look even better and even younger than
• 50:19
  Speaker 6: you did a decade ago?
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: I stopped coming to a meeting in that office at 7.30
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: every morning.
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: Well, you're welcome back anytime.
• 50:26
  Speaker 8: Thanks, Dan.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: All right, before we go, this week, the legislative mastermind
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: of his generation, Kevin McCarthy, rode the momentum from his
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: big debt ceiling victory right off a cliff. The speaker
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: held a vote to protect us from jackbooted feds busting
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: down our doors and confiscating our precious gas stoves, which
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: is something that absolutely no one in the federal government
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: has proposed. though one agency did say they're considering some
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: kind of regulation on new gas stoves because they are
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: a growing source of childhood asthma and other harmful emissions. But,
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: of course, Republicans need to pretend that they're coming for
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: your stove to keep their voters nice and angry, so
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: screw the kids with asthma. Problem is, McCarthy's vote failed
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: because 12 of the biggest MAGA Republicans decided to take
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: the bill as retaliation for the speaker negotiating a bipartisan
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: deal with Joe Biden to save us all from default.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: And apparently they're going to keep tanking bills. Matt Gaetz tweeted,
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: House leadership couldn't hold the line. Now we hold the floor.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: Little I'm the captain now from Matt Gaetz. And here's
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: Gaetz on why they're so pissed.
• 51:54
  Speaker 5: McCarthy has to decide who's his coalition partner going to be.
• 51:57
  Speaker 5: Hakeem Jeffries or us. And if he chooses, you know,
• 52:01
  Speaker 5: he can't, he can't. The way the cartel works, he'd
• 52:05
  Speaker 5: rather have Hakeem Jeffries. But we're going to force him
• 52:09
  Speaker 5: into a monogamous relationship with one or the other. What
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: we're not going to do is hang out with him
• 52:15
  Speaker 5: for five months and then watch him go jump in
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: the backseat with Hakeem Jeffries. and sell the nation out
• 52:21
  Speaker 5: and underwrite $ 4 trillion in debt.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: That was colorful. There was a colorful explanation from Matt
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: Gaetz to the newly subpoenaed Steve Bannon, also just got
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: a subpoena in the January 6th investigation that I'm sure
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: he'll ignore. What do you think of this whole mess?
• 52:36
  Speaker 8: Enjoyable.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: Absolutely enjoyable. Look, I warned the folks at Punchbowl not
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: to erect the bronze statue of Kevin McCarthy within seven
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: minutes of the deal happening, but they did, and now
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: they're paying the price for it.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: I am still giving credit to Kevin McCarthy for doing
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: the responsible thing here, which is negotiating the deal with
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden to avert default and not listening to these
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: fucking goobers who are now trying to destroy his speakership
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: and just cause chaos in the House. Although these people,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: I just want to talk about the Gastos for a second.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: I know we've talked about the Gastos when they first
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: became a controversy, but these fucking people are like, This
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: is the greatest threat and the government is coming for
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: your gas stoves. And what are we going to do?
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: So what do they do? First of all, they set
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: up a like fake vote that doesn't really matter because
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: it's just a messaging bill that will die in the
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: Senate anyway. So there was no there was just no
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: danger of this ever becoming law. Also, Joe Biden's the president.
• 53:35
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: So it's never going to become law. But of course,
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: it's so important to them. that they protect us from
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: the federal government stealing our gas stoves, that they kill
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: the vote because they're pissed at Kevin McCarthy, it's unbelievable.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, when you get to gas stove confiscation, you
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: are scraping the bottom of the grievance barrel pretty bad.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, but you know, and it's also, we have
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: not talked about this today, but because of the Canadian wildfires,
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: the New York, D.C., a lot of the East Coast
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: is like blanketed in like just dirty, polluted, very dangerous
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: to your health air right now. And the Republicans have
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: now just like the gas stove thing, right, where a
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: bunch of kids are getting asthma from gas stove. They
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: don't give a shit because they got to own the libs.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: They are now treating the what you can see when
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: you walk around New York. Just the pictures are like
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: you can barely see five feet in front of you.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: And they've all decided that. that this is the media
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: and Democrats using the fires to hype up climate again.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: This is one of the clips on Fox News recently.
• 54:47
  Speaker 9: But the reality is there's no health risk. We have
• 54:49
  Speaker 9: this kind of air in India and China all the time.
• 54:52
  Speaker 9: No public health emergency. This doesn't kill anybody. This doesn't
• 54:55
  Speaker 9: make anybody cough. This is not a health event. Particular
• 54:59
  Speaker 9: matter is very fine soot.
• 55:00
  Speaker 7: Well, you don't have to be breathing that in all day.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: They're just carbon particles.
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: They're innocuous.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: Lancet study said that pollution killed 2.9 million Indians in
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: 2019 alone. And that's just not what that like, this is,
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: this is their, this is their standard line on this.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: This is the Republican standard line on this.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: It's smoke. No one wants to breathe smoke. It's like,
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: it's not, it's like, what are we, what are we doing?
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: It's just, it's so.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: It does remind me of like how the conspiracies about
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: the COVID vaccines are, have now spread to like all vaccines.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: Like now when you look at like charts of Republicans,
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: the anti-vax sentiment is not just on COVID vaccines, but
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: on all the rest of the vaccines is now rising.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Same thing. It's like they've been against climate as the
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: answer to anything they've been against. They've been against the
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: idea that climate change is real for so long that
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: now they're even saying that like air pollution isn't real,
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: that like smoke isn't a problem. Just things that people
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: can see and feel for themselves when they walk out
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: of their fucking houses.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: If they weren't so goddamn stupid, you would think that
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: all these people were Democratic sleeper cells trying to kill
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: Republican voters with their ideas. It's just insane. Your base
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: electorate is older Americans, and what you tell them to
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: do is don't get vaccinated and go breathe smoke?
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: In fact, go breathe smoke to own the Libs. That's it.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: If you want to stick it to those libs, you
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: go outside, you inhale some of that pollution, you did it.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: You own the libs.
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: Congratulations, guys.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: But anyway, great stuff in the house. I don't know
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: how this is going to end because they said that
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: they're going to block a bunch of shit. Until what?
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: Until Kevin McCarthy goes back in time and undoes the
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: debt ceiling deal? I don't know what they're hoping for here.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: I think there's a serious thing here, which is Kevin
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: McCarthy has to win their support back. And to do that,
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: he's going to have to agree to something pretty fucking
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: crazy and bad. And so that's what we have to
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: keep our eye on. What ransom does he pay? Because
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: for all of his big talk about the debt limit,
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: he's the hostage now.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: I'm the hostage now. Yeah, that is true, though. When
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: the Senate's controlled by Democrats and the White House is
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: controlled by Democrats, Fucking around with the debt ceiling was
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: really the only leverage they had. I guess we could
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: be headed for a government shutdown now maybe.
• 57:23
  Speaker 6: I don't know.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: It could be government shutdown because they still have to
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: pass– the budget deal, as important as it was, doesn't
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: guarantee there's no shutdown. But it could also just be
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: performative bullshit. Like who do they have to impeach? What
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: do they have to subpoena? I mean this is how
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: we got– it was a similar thing that came on
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: the heels of yet another fiscal deal that led John
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: Boehner to a point. the Benghazi special committee, years after
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: every government agency and the Republican House committees had already
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: proven all the conspiracy theories about that tragedy wrong.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, the only thing people need to know is
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: that the Republican House doesn't want to protect your gas stoves.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: That's what you should know. Despite what they say, they
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: care more about sticking it to Kevin McCarthy, who, as
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: you said, is the hostage. That's our show for today.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Jeff Zeitz, for joining. Everyone have a fantastic weekend.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: And Monday night is going to be the next Pod
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: Save America. We are live in New York City. Alex
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: Wagner is a co-host. We got Roy Wood Jr. We
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: got Tish James and Hillary Clinton. Dan will be there. John, Tommy, me,
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: we're all going to be there. It's going to be
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: so fun. So that show will come out Tuesday morning
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: and it will be recorded Monday night. So we'll talk
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: to you then. Everyone have a great weekend.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Bye, everyone.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our producers are Andy Gardner Bernstein
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: and Olivia Martinez. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer, with audio support from
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Thanks to Hallie Kiefer, Madeline Herringer,
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft, and Justine Howe for production support.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Mia Kelman,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: Ben Hefko, and David Tolles. You know those conversations you
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: play over and over in your head but find really
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: difficult to actually have? That's exactly what the show Death, Sex,
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: and Money is for. It's hosted by Anna Sale, who
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: has surprisingly comfortable conversations with her guests about uncomfortable topics,
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: like the devastating impact the far right can have on
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: a marriage, or how Welsh coal miners led to the
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: invention of Viagra. Some of her guests are famous, some not,
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: and very often they're from the community of listeners all
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: talking about what we're figuring out as we go along.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: Those coal miners sure hit the mother load.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: Wow. Very good. Join in and find Death, Sex, and
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: Money from WNYC Studios wherever you listen to podcasts.