Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / NT Seafood Council CEO Katherine Winchester says barra and mudcrab fishers have been locked out of key fishing spots as access agreements have not been finalised by traditional owners and the NT Government

Transcript

NT Seafood Council CEO Katherine Winchester says barra and mudcrab fishers have been locked out of key fishing spots as access agreements have not been finalised by traditional owners and the NT Government · 360 with Katie Woolf

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  Speaker 1: But look, one of the other big issues around the
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  Speaker 1: Northern Territory at the moment is the fact that there
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  Speaker 1: has been some serious concerns raised over the recent loss
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  Speaker 1: of access for professional fishes in the Mini Mini and
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  Speaker 1: Morganella region due to failed negotiations. Now it's understood that
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  Speaker 1: discussions between the Northern Territory government and the traditional owners
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  Speaker 1: of that region have failed to reach a successful result
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  Speaker 1: to minimize short term impacts and as a result, it
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  Speaker 1: means that well, some of those fishes that were in
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  Speaker 1: the area, those professional fishes are no longer able to
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  Speaker 1: access those spots. Now joining me on the line is
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  Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Seafood Council Chief Executive Officer Catherine Winchester.
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  Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Catherine.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning Katie.
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  Speaker 1: Catherine, what exactly is the situation at this point?
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  Speaker 2: Well, right now today we've got professional barmunday fishes and
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  Speaker 2: mud crab fishes that have fished that many many Morganella
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  Speaker 2: areas for over twenty years and they're unable to go
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  Speaker 2: to their fishing grounds and unable to earn income because
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  Speaker 2: their entire businesses were set up for that particular area.
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  Speaker 1: Wow, Catherine, how many professional fishes. Is this impacting.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's impacting really hard three particular businesses, but
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  Speaker 2: every business is so important in the industry and we
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  Speaker 2: had hoped when we heard that the traditional owners we're
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  Speaker 2: going to close the waters from the first of January.
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  Speaker 2: We got notice of that in early November, so it
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  Speaker 2: was sort of a couple of months notice. The government
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  Speaker 2: put an offer or developed an offer for the traditional
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  Speaker 2: owners to consider, and it was only for five businesses.
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  Speaker 2: To really try and minimize that impact on the professional
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  Speaker 2: fishing industry because through these fourteen years of negotiations for
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  Speaker 2: Blue Monday, we've tried our best to always make sure
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  Speaker 2: that we're not disrupting industry, that businesses can keep operating
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  Speaker 2: as we transition to whatever the new system is going forward.
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  Speaker 2: So an offer for five businesses to continue in that
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  Speaker 2: area was rejected, which has really hurt those particular individuals.
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  Speaker 1: Catherine, when did you become aware that the negotiations had
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  Speaker 1: sort of broken down to this point.
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  Speaker 2: Well, we got the news, we got briefing last week
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  Speaker 2: that the answer was no. So these businesses, you know,
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  Speaker 2: we met with the Northern Land Council in late November
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  Speaker 2: to further understand to hear from the Northern Land Council
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  Speaker 2: why this area was different to the rest of the coastline.
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  Speaker 2: Because we're the whole coastline that eighty six percent that
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  Speaker 2: is owned by Aboriginal people. We need to We know
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  Speaker 2: that we need to transition to a new Section nineteen
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  Speaker 2: permit system and we're working with a Land council to
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  Speaker 2: do that, but this one particular area didn't have the
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  Speaker 2: regal room for a transition period for industry. So we
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  Speaker 2: met with Northern Land Council in November to better understand
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  Speaker 2: why that was, and it's because the Land Council had
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  Speaker 2: no flexibility. They understood the impacts, but it's up to
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  Speaker 2: the traditional owners to decide what activities occur on their
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  Speaker 2: land and they had made that decision that they wanted
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  Speaker 2: the waters closed. So, you know, an emergency short term
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  Speaker 2: offer just for seven months for five businesses, Can you
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  Speaker 2: please just let us have a little bit more access
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  Speaker 2: whilst we come back to you and talk about those
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  Speaker 2: long term arrangements that suit the region. But unfortunately the
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  Speaker 2: answer was no, and we're still trying to unpack that
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  Speaker 2: and understand what went wrong because it's massive implications for
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  Speaker 2: those businesses.
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  Speaker 1: What are those businesses saying to you right now.
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  Speaker 2: Well, some of them have stopped answering their phones at
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  Speaker 2: the moment because it really wasn't news that they were expecting,
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  Speaker 2: using language like they're buryed, this is it, I'm done.
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  Speaker 2: It's really difficult conversations. We're trying to support them as
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  Speaker 2: much as possible, but at the same time, there's nothing
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  Speaker 2: I can say that that helps them. And I saw
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  Speaker 2: in the media comment from the Minister Minister Selena Hubo
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  Speaker 2: saying that the government's still negotiating with the Land Council
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  Speaker 2: about access to that area, but it's too late. The
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  Speaker 2: season has started. It took three months to get out
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  Speaker 2: there for an offer that was rejected just recently, and
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  Speaker 2: all those traditional owners have to come in and spend
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  Speaker 2: their time to hear the offer. These things don't just
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  Speaker 2: happen at a week's notice or you know, I hear
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  Speaker 2: the counter offer. So to have that offer rejected, I
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  Speaker 2: don't know if and how soon another offer could even
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  Speaker 2: be formed and presented, and are they interested in an offer,
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  Speaker 2: like we really need to understand why the answer was no,
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  Speaker 2: and also you know how that discussion went so that
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  Speaker 2: these businesses, I've got no answers for them right now,
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  Speaker 2: and it's really difficult.
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  Speaker 1: Has the government provided any kind of insight, any kind
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  Speaker 1: of information towards this Seafood Council in terms of those
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  Speaker 1: negotiations or where to from here?
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  Speaker 2: We had a briefing and we are seeking further information
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  Speaker 2: from the government on that we can share like in
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  Speaker 2: writing rather than my version of what I've heard to industry,
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  Speaker 2: to actually get some written advice to share with industry
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  Speaker 2: as well. But unfortunately it seems like and the many
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  Speaker 2: many Murganella is an area that government have been having
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  Speaker 2: discussions with for almost ten years now. It shouldn't have
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  Speaker 2: been a surprise to the government that there were other
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  Speaker 2: elements and things that they had been discussing with these
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  Speaker 2: traditional owners that were important. So how well did they
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  Speaker 2: set up this offer and how well did they present it?
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  Speaker 2: And they did the people going there on behalf of
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  Speaker 2: industry have the riggle room to say, well, if you've
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  Speaker 2: got a really big problem with barra mundy fishing, if
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  Speaker 2: that was, for example, for example, one of the issues,
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  Speaker 2: can we get the mudcrab operators in, how do we
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  Speaker 2: minimize this impact, How do we try and reduce the
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  Speaker 2: impact of just a flat note. But at this point
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  Speaker 2: in time, we don't have that level of information and
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  Speaker 2: we really need to learn from this to make sure
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  Speaker 2: because we've got the rest of the coastline for Section
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  Speaker 2: nineteen agreements. If you only get one shot to bring
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  Speaker 2: all those traditional owners together to say here's what the
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  Speaker 2: offer is, you want to be having conversations before you
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  Speaker 2: get to that part. You want to know you're going
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  Speaker 2: there with something that solid and makes sense to both
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  Speaker 2: the traditional owners into industry. And so we're really concerned
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  Speaker 2: about the process going forward that we need to get
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  Speaker 2: that right. We can't afford to waste traditional owners time
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  Speaker 2: with an offer that's not good enough from their perspectives
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  Speaker 2: and expectations to then have a know to have waters
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  Speaker 2: closed and businesses essentially unable to earn an income. So yeah,
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  Speaker 2: we've got a lot of work to do very quickly
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  Speaker 2: with the Land Council and the nothern territory government to
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  Speaker 2: learn from this. But that is just such wold comfort
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  Speaker 2: right now for those businesses who will geared up. They
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  Speaker 2: can only operate in this area and now they've got
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  Speaker 2: nowhere else to go.
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  Speaker 1: Catherine, what is it going to mean? What kind of
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  Speaker 1: water impact is there going to be in terms of supply.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, The Mini Minimoganella area was really is a really
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  Speaker 2: important area for both mud crab operations and Barra Mundy fishing.
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  Speaker 2: And some people might think just go fish somewhere else,
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  Speaker 2: but when we are mud crab fishery, we've got operators
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  Speaker 2: spread all around the coastline and they've kind of figured
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  Speaker 2: out who fishes were so that they're not fishing too much,
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  Speaker 2: they're not fishing on top of each other. To just
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  Speaker 2: say to those crab operators who have operated in this region,
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  Speaker 2: I'll go fish somewhere else and catch a fish there.
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  Speaker 2: They don't want to go fish on top of someone
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  Speaker 2: else's business. So this was an area that was only
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  Speaker 2: a couple of hours drive from Darwin Fresh Product to market.
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  Speaker 2: It's probably where the majority of the King's threadford thread
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  Speaker 2: finn come for the barrow Mundy fishery, and in really
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  Speaker 2: good years up to twenty percent of the Barra Mundy's
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  Speaker 2: catch and around ten percent of the mud cub crab catch.
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  Speaker 2: So it's not as simple as just go fish somewhere
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  Speaker 2: else to catch that same amount of products. We're hearing
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  Speaker 2: from industry that people are picking up the phones and
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  Speaker 2: asking more where do I get my product from? For
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  Speaker 2: those operators that were in the many many morganella areas,
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  Speaker 2: they've got customers that they've got agreements with they now
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  Speaker 2: are unable to fulfill those So those businesses are going
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  Speaker 2: to have to look elsewhere and try their best to
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  Speaker 2: secure products. So it's going to mostly impact the fresh barra,
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  Speaker 2: mundy and kids threadfinn that we see here in Darwin,
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  Speaker 2: So probably a lot more frozen products that people will see. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: but for those mud crab fishes as well, it's you know,
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  Speaker 2: where are they going to go?
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  Speaker 1: Cathern. I am just reading from a report by the
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  Speaker 1: ABC and it's online and it does say that Kagadoo
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  Speaker 1: Marine Ranger, one of the marine ranger had said that
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  Speaker 1: many coastal traditional owners felt that commercial fishers were catching
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  Speaker 1: too much near the river mouths and had said that
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  Speaker 1: commercial netters they're the big problem. They work with the tide,
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  Speaker 1: then the tide pushes out, everything gets stuck in there
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  Speaker 1: and that they push one fifty meters across on the
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  Speaker 1: other side and they go up a bit so they
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  Speaker 1: overlap each other. So they by the looks of what
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  Speaker 1: I'm reading there, had been some concerns raised in terms
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  Speaker 1: of the commercial fishing. I mean, what would you say
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  Speaker 1: to that when you look at the sustainability that they're
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  Speaker 1: obviously raising as a worry.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's frustrating because I guess both concerned aren't
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  Speaker 2: necessarily new. We have heard those concerns from different areas
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  Speaker 2: around the coastline before. And fishes aren't allowed to set
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  Speaker 2: their nets across each other to overlap on a river.
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  Speaker 2: That's not a behavior or a practice that supported and industry.
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  Speaker 2: It's really closely with fisheries for making sure that what
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  Speaker 2: they're taking is sustainable. But because this area in particular
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  Speaker 2: has had previous discussions and negotiations with government, if that
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  Speaker 2: was an issue that government was aware of, particularly for
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  Speaker 2: this region, they should have gone out there with the
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  Speaker 2: fisheries staff as part of that negotiation team to present
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  Speaker 2: the fisheries data to provide some comfort as to this
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  Speaker 2: area has sustainably caught by mundi, king, thread finn and
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  Speaker 2: mudcrab for twenty thirty forty years. If it wasn't sustainable,
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  Speaker 2: those businesses couldn't be there. But to present the right
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  Speaker 2: information to put people's minds at ease, to share what
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  Speaker 2: information is happening with regards to how we manage our fisheries,
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  Speaker 2: all the science, all the reporting, the technology that's on
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  Speaker 2: those boats to fish sustainably. If that wasn't presented, it
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  Speaker 2: should have been. And it's really frustrating reading that ABC
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  Speaker 2: report that you're referring to because it also said, you know,
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  Speaker 2: traditional owners want to know who's accessing their sea country
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  Speaker 2: and what commercial operators we're taking from it. We've known
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  Speaker 2: that for a very long time. That's why Section nineteen
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  Speaker 2: permits is the way forward, because they want to know
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  Speaker 2: who the individuals are. We provided the government with the name,
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  Speaker 2: the licenses, you know how many licenses, what fisheries. All
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  Speaker 2: that information was known. So again, if you've got one
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  Speaker 2: shot at a negotiation to reach an agreement, go they're prepared,
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  Speaker 2: go there with the right information. Traditional owners shouldn't have
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  Speaker 2: been left with any questions. All the answers should have
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  Speaker 2: been there for them to give them comfort. And if
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  Speaker 2: it didn't give them comfort, we need to understand why
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  Speaker 2: to better understand what we do going forward.
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  Speaker 1: I am going to have to wrap up, but just
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  Speaker 1: very quickly, do you have confidence that the Northern Territory
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  Speaker 1: government is going to be able to negotiate this and
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  Speaker 1: be able to manage you know, not just this area
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  Speaker 1: that we've spoken about this morning, but the other area
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  Speaker 1: is that of concern also.
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  Speaker 2: I think for the other areas it really needs their
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  Speaker 2: industry agreement. So we need to have a discussion around
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  Speaker 2: what support do we need from government to make sure
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  Speaker 2: that industry and the right people are there for those discussions.
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  Speaker 2: If a Section nineteen is between a business and traditional owner,
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  Speaker 2: it's not appropriate for government to be pitching on behalf
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  Speaker 2: of that business. So we need to have a chat
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  Speaker 2: about how we get the businesses and traditional owners connected
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  Speaker 2: to start forming those relationships. This was a one off,
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  Speaker 2: short term where government tried to secure access for our industry,
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  Speaker 2: but going forward it's discussions between industry and traditional owners
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  Speaker 2: which we need to make sure we're setting up for success.
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  Speaker 1: Ntcafood Council Chief Executive Officer, Katherine Winchester, I always appreciate
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  Speaker 1: your time. Thanks so much for having a chat with
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  Speaker 1: us this morning, and please do stay in contact.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Katie.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you