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Okay, but why did my life list just shrink? · Okay, But... Birds

• 0:00
  You've
• 0:00
  watched
• 0:00
  the
• 0:00
  bear,
• 0:01
  right?
• 0:01
  Yeah,
• 0:01
  it's
• 0:01
  just
• 0:01
  a
• 0:02
  fantastic
• 0:02
  show.
• 0:03
  It's
• 0:03
  a
• 0:03
  great
• 0:03
  show.
• 0:03
  I
• 0:04
  don't
• 0:04
  know
• 0:04
  the
• 0:04
  process
• 0:04
  of
• 0:04
  the
• 0:05
  Emmys,
• 0:05
  but
• 0:05
  it's
• 0:05
  not
• 0:06
  a
• 0:06
  comedy.
• 0:07
  And
• 0:07
  so
• 0:07
  I
• 0:07
  feel
• 0:08
  like
• 0:08
  the
• 0:08
  Cassia
• 0:08
  crossbow
• 0:09
  is
• 0:09
  kind
• 0:09
  of
• 0:09
  like
• 0:09
  the
• 0:09
  bear.
• 0:10
  You
• 0:11
  know,
• 0:11
  it's
• 0:11
  like
• 0:11
  it
• 0:12
  checks
• 0:12
  all
• 0:12
  the
• 0:12
  boxes.
• 0:13
  Amazing
• 0:13
  work.
• 0:13
  No
• 0:13
  one
• 0:14
  would
• 0:14
  take
• 0:14
  that
• 0:14
  away
• 0:14
  from,
• 0:15
  but
• 0:15
  it's
• 0:15
  like
• 0:15
  the
• 0:16
  gut
• 0:16
  check,
• 0:17
  is
• 0:17
  this
• 0:17
  a
• 0:17
  species?
• 0:19
  I
• 0:19
  know.
• 0:19
  I'm
• 0:20
  not
• 0:21
  totally
• 0:21
  convinced
• 0:21
  by
• 0:22
  that.
• 0:24
  Okay,
• 0:29
  Okay.
• 0:46
  So
• 0:47
  you're
• 0:47
  at
• 0:47
  brunch,
• 0:48
  basking
• 0:48
  in
• 0:48
  the
• 0:48
  glow
• 0:49
  of
• 0:49
  finally
• 0:49
  nabbing
• 0:50
  a
• 0:50
  hori,
• 0:50
  Redpool,
• 0:51
  that
• 0:51
  tiny
• 0:51
  winter
• 0:51
  finch
• 0:52
  with
• 0:52
  the
• 0:52
  frosted
• 0:52
  cap
• 0:53
  and
• 0:53
  candy
• 0:53
  red
• 0:53
  forehead.
• 0:54
  You
• 0:54
  tell
• 0:55
  the
• 0:55
  table
• 0:55
  about
• 0:55
  your
• 0:55
  hard
• 0:56
  won
• 0:56
  id,
• 0:57
  log
• 0:57
  into
• 0:57
  ebird
• 0:58
  later
• 0:58
  for
• 0:58
  the
• 0:58
  official
• 0:58
  victory
• 0:59
  lap,
• 0:59
  and
• 0:59
  poof.
• 1:00
  Your
• 1:00
  lifer
• 1:01
  has
• 1:01
  changed
• 1:02
  categories.
• 1:03
  It's
• 1:03
  just
• 1:03
  Redpool
• 1:04
  now.
• 1:04
  Yesterday's
• 1:05
  hard
• 1:05
  earned
• 1:05
  hori
• 1:06
  got
• 1:06
  cozy
• 1:06
  with
• 1:06
  common.
• 1:07
  Maybe
• 1:07
  lesser
• 1:08
  got
• 1:08
  shuffled
• 1:08
  too.
• 1:09
  And
• 1:09
  your
• 1:09
  life
• 1:09
  list
• 1:10
  has
• 1:10
  deflated.
• 1:11
  Your
• 1:11
  brain
• 1:11
  immediately
• 1:12
  wants
• 1:12
  the
• 1:12
  culprit
• 1:12
  who
• 1:13
  killed
• 1:13
  the
• 1:13
  mood.
• 1:14
  Was
• 1:14
  it
• 1:14
  a
• 1:14
  shadowy
• 1:15
  committee
• 1:15
  in
• 1:15
  a
• 1:15
  windowless
• 1:16
  room?
• 1:16
  A
• 1:16
  grad
• 1:17
  student
• 1:17
  with
• 1:17
  a
• 1:17
  pipette
• 1:18
  and
• 1:18
  an
• 1:18
  agenda?
• 1:19
  Some
• 1:19
  mustache
• 1:20
  twirling
• 1:20
  tyrant
• 1:21
  known
• 1:21
  only
• 1:21
  as
• 1:21
  Clements?
• 1:23
  If
• 1:23
  you've
• 1:23
  ever
• 1:23
  had
• 1:24
  that
• 1:24
  feeling,
• 1:24
  this.
• 1:24
  Episode
• 1:25
  is
• 1:25
  for
• 1:25
  you.
• 1:26
  Okay,
• 1:26
  but
• 1:26
  why
• 1:27
  did
• 1:27
  my
• 1:27
  life
• 1:27
  list
• 1:27
  just
• 1:28
  shrink?
• 1:28
  And
• 1:28
  who's
• 1:29
  the
• 1:29
  villain
• 1:29
  in
• 1:29
  this
• 1:29
  story?
• 1:30
  To
• 1:30
  help
• 1:30
  us
• 1:31
  answer
• 1:31
  it,
• 1:31
  I'm
• 1:31
  talking
• 1:32
  with
• 1:32
  Dr.
• 1:32
  David
• 1:32
  Toews,
• 1:33
  an
• 1:33
  associate
• 1:33
  professor
• 1:34
  at
• 1:34
  Penn
• 1:34
  State
• 1:34
  who
• 1:35
  works
• 1:35
  right
• 1:35
  at
• 1:35
  the
• 1:35
  intersection
• 1:36
  of
• 1:36
  species,
• 1:37
  genes,
• 1:38
  and
• 1:38
  confusion.
• 1:39
  To
• 1:40
  understand
• 1:40
  what
• 1:40
  happened
• 1:41
  to
• 1:41
  your
• 1:41
  lifer,
• 1:41
  we
• 1:41
  need
• 1:42
  to
• 1:42
  step
• 1:42
  into
• 1:42
  the
• 1:42
  Redpole
• 1:43
  cinematic
• 1:44
  universe,
• 1:44
  where
• 1:45
  three
• 1:45
  lookalike
• 1:46
  finches,
• 1:46
  common
• 1:47
  hori
• 1:47
  and
• 1:47
  lesser,
• 1:48
  tour
• 1:48
  the
• 1:48
  north
• 1:49
  like
• 1:49
  a
• 1:49
  boy
• 1:49
  band.
• 1:50
  Same
• 1:50
  songs,
• 1:50
  slightly
• 1:51
  different
• 1:51
  outfits.
• 1:52
  Some
• 1:52
  years
• 1:52
  they
• 1:53
  erupt
• 1:53
  south
• 1:53
  in
• 1:53
  big
• 1:54
  numbers.
• 1:54
  Other
• 1:55
  years
• 1:55
  they
• 1:55
  barely
• 1:56
  show
• 1:56
  up
• 1:56
  at
• 1:56
  all.
• 1:57
  And
• 1:57
  right
• 1:57
  when
• 1:57
  you
• 1:57
  finally
• 1:58
  learn
• 1:58
  the
• 1:58
  difference
• 1:59
  between
• 1:59
  fluffy
• 1:59
  brownish
• 2:00
  snowball
• 2:00
  and
• 2:00
  fluffy
• 2:01
  white
• 2:01
  snowball
• 2:02
  with
• 2:02
  a
• 2:02
  red
• 2:02
  forehead,
• 2:03
  the
• 2:03
  taxonomy
• 2:04
  updates
• 2:04
  and
• 2:04
  your
• 2:04
  checklists
• 2:05
  change.
• 2:06
  If
• 2:07
  this
• 2:07
  were
• 2:07
  a
• 2:07
  movie,
• 2:08
  the
• 2:08
  villain
• 2:08
  would
• 2:08
  be
• 2:08
  easy.
• 2:09
  Cape
• 2:09
  monologue,
• 2:10
  death
• 2:10
  ray.
• 2:11
  In
• 2:11
  the
• 2:11
  bird
• 2:12
  world,
• 2:12
  the
• 2:12
  villain
• 2:12
  is
• 2:13
  always
• 2:13
  evidence.
• 2:13
  The
• 2:14
  genomic
• 2:14
  data
• 2:14
  that
• 2:15
  says
• 2:15
  these
• 2:15
  two
• 2:15
  are
• 2:15
  one
• 2:16
  were
• 2:16
  the
• 2:16
  field
• 2:16
  studies
• 2:17
  showing
• 2:17
  gene
• 2:17
  flow
• 2:18
  across
• 2:18
  what
• 2:18
  we
• 2:18
  thought
• 2:19
  was
• 2:19
  a
• 2:19
  hard
• 2:19
  boundary.
• 2:20
  And
• 2:21
  in
• 2:21
  the
• 2:21
  case
• 2:21
  of
• 2:21
  redpolls,
• 2:22
  it
• 2:22
  is
• 2:22
  personal.
• 2:23
  Back
• 2:23
  in
• 2:23
  2013,
• 2:24
  I
• 2:24
  was
• 2:24
  a
• 2:25
  postdoc
• 2:25
  at
• 2:25
  the
• 2:25
  Cornell
• 2:26
  Lab
• 2:26
  of
• 2:26
  Ornithology,
• 2:26
  the
• 2:27
  kind
• 2:27
  of
• 2:27
  place
• 2:27
  where
• 2:27
  a
• 2:27
  rare
• 2:28
  warbler
• 2:28
  in
• 2:28
  the
• 2:28
  parking
• 2:29
  lot
• 2:29
  can
• 2:29
  derail
• 2:30
  an
• 2:30
  entire
• 2:30
  morning
• 2:31
  that
• 2:31
  winter,
• 2:32
  the
• 2:32
  lab
• 2:32
  was
• 2:32
  buzzing
• 2:33
  because
• 2:33
  redpolls
• 2:34
  were
• 2:34
  everywhere.
• 2:35
  Flocks
• 2:35
  were
• 2:35
  hammering
• 2:36
  the
• 2:36
  feeders
• 2:36
  outside
• 2:36
  the
• 2:37
  big
• 2:37
  picture
• 2:37
  windows,
• 2:37
  and
• 2:38
  coffee
• 2:38
  breaks
• 2:38
  Frequently
• 2:39
  turned
• 2:39
  into
• 2:39
  hori
• 2:40
  versus
• 2:40
  Common.
• 2:40
  Show
• 2:40
  and
• 2:41
  tell.
• 2:42
  One
• 2:42
  morning,
• 2:42
  my
• 2:42
  friend
• 2:42
  Nick
• 2:43
  Mason
• 2:43
  and
• 2:43
  I
• 2:43
  were
• 2:43
  standing
• 2:44
  there
• 2:44
  with
• 2:44
  our
• 2:44
  coffee
• 2:44
  mugs,
• 2:45
  watching
• 2:45
  this
• 2:45
  blur
• 2:46
  of
• 2:46
  brown
• 2:46
  streaky
• 2:47
  finches
• 2:47
  with
• 2:47
  red
• 2:48
  caps
• 2:48
  and
• 2:49
  saying
• 2:49
  what
• 2:49
  everyone
• 2:49
  was
• 2:50
  are
• 2:51
  these
• 2:51
  really
• 2:51
  different
• 2:51
  species
• 2:52
  or
• 2:52
  just
• 2:52
  different
• 2:53
  outfits
• 2:53
  on
• 2:53
  the
• 2:53
  same
• 2:54
  bird?
• 2:54
  Some
• 2:55
  were
• 2:55
  paler,
• 2:55
  some
• 2:56
  were
• 2:56
  darker,
• 2:56
  some
• 2:57
  almost
• 2:57
  ghost
• 2:58
  white.
• 2:58
  So
• 2:58
  we
• 2:59
  did
• 2:59
  what
• 2:59
  you
• 2:59
  do
• 2:59
  in.
• 2:59
  A
• 2:59
  place
• 3:00
  like
• 3:00
  that.
• 3:00
  We
• 3:00
  went
• 3:01
  down
• 3:01
  the
• 3:01
  hall
• 3:01
  and
• 3:01
  let
• 3:01
  the
• 3:02
  genetics
• 3:02
  have
• 3:02
  a
• 3:02
  say
• 3:03
  using
• 3:04
  the
• 3:04
  tools
• 3:04
  we
• 3:04
  had.
• 3:04
  Then
• 3:05
  we
• 3:05
  asked
• 3:05
  whether
• 3:05
  hori
• 3:06
  and
• 3:06
  common
• 3:06
  were
• 3:06
  truly
• 3:07
  different
• 3:07
  species.
• 3:08
  Across
• 3:08
  the
• 3:08
  genome
• 3:09
  we
• 3:09
  found
• 3:09
  no
• 3:09
  clean
• 3:10
  split,
• 3:10
  just
• 3:11
  birds
• 3:11
  turning
• 3:11
  the
• 3:11
  same
• 3:12
  pigment
• 3:12
  genes
• 3:12
  up
• 3:12
  or
• 3:13
  down.
• 3:13
  Interesting,
• 3:14
  but
• 3:14
  not
• 3:14
  the
• 3:14
  tidy
• 3:14
  answer
• 3:15
  anyone
• 3:15
  was
• 3:15
  hoping
• 3:15
  for.
• 3:16
  Fast
• 3:17
  forward
• 3:17
  to
• 3:17
  2019.
• 3:18
  My
• 3:18
  then
• 3:18
  PhD
• 3:19
  student
• 3:19
  Eric
• 3:19
  Fung
• 3:19
  sequenced
• 3:20
  whole
• 3:20
  genomes
• 3:21
  for
• 3:21
  birds
• 3:21
  that
• 3:21
  looked
• 3:22
  hoary
• 3:22
  and
• 3:22
  birds
• 3:23
  that
• 3:23
  looked
• 3:23
  common.
• 3:24
  Most
• 3:24
  of
• 3:24
  the
• 3:24
  genome
• 3:25
  was
• 3:25
  nearly
• 3:26
  identical,
• 3:26
  but
• 3:27
  one
• 3:27
  chunk
• 3:27
  of
• 3:28
  one
• 3:28
  chromosome
• 3:29
  lit
• 3:29
  up
• 3:30
  a
• 3:30
  region
• 3:30
  dramatically
• 3:31
  different
• 3:31
  between
• 3:32
  brown
• 3:32
  birds
• 3:32
  and
• 3:33
  white
• 3:33
  birds
• 3:34
  that
• 3:34
  slice.
• 3:34
  That
• 3:35
  tiny
• 3:35
  slice
• 3:35
  is
• 3:36
  the
• 3:36
  genomic
• 3:36
  switch
• 3:36
  for
• 3:36
  those
• 3:37
  plumage
• 3:37
  differences.
• 3:38
  Hoary
• 3:38
  looking
• 3:38
  and
• 3:39
  common
• 3:39
  looking
• 3:39
  birds
• 3:39
  differ
• 3:40
  there,
• 3:40
  but
• 3:41
  are
• 3:41
  basically
• 3:41
  the
• 3:41
  same
• 3:42
  everywhere
• 3:42
  else
• 3:42
  in
• 3:42
  their
• 3:43
  genome.
• 3:44
  Redpolls
• 3:44
  in
• 3:44
  North
• 3:44
  America
• 3:45
  are
• 3:45
  more
• 3:45
  similar
• 3:46
  to
• 3:46
  each
• 3:46
  other
• 3:47
  regardless
• 3:47
  of
• 3:47
  how
• 3:47
  they
• 3:48
  look
• 3:48
  than
• 3:48
  to
• 3:49
  birds
• 3:49
  that
• 3:49
  look
• 3:49
  exactly
• 3:50
  the
• 3:50
  same
• 3:50
  but
• 3:50
  live
• 3:51
  all
• 3:51
  the
• 3:51
  way
• 3:51
  in
• 3:51
  Russia.
• 3:52
  One
• 3:52
  widespread
• 3:53
  species
• 3:53
  with
• 3:53
  a
• 3:54
  tiny
• 3:54
  genetic.
• 3:54
  Toggle
• 3:55
  for
• 3:55
  color
• 3:55
  and
• 3:55
  shape.
• 3:57
  So
• 3:57
  if
• 3:57
  your
• 3:58
  life
• 3:58
  list
• 3:58
  drops
• 3:58
  a
• 3:58
  digit,
• 3:59
  take
• 3:59
  a
• 3:59
  deep
• 4:00
  breath
• 4:01
  and
• 4:01
  repeat
• 4:01
  after
• 4:02
  my
• 4:02
  birds
• 4:03
  are
• 4:03
  fine,
• 4:03
  my
• 4:03
  labels
• 4:04
  evolved.
• 4:04
  No
• 4:05
  one
• 4:05
  stole
• 4:05
  your
• 4:05
  finch.
• 4:06
  The
• 4:06
  evidence
• 4:06
  just
• 4:07
  told
• 4:07
  us
• 4:07
  the
• 4:07
  story
• 4:07
  was
• 4:08
  different
• 4:08
  and
• 4:08
  almost
• 4:09
  all
• 4:09
  always
• 4:09
  more
• 4:09
  interesting
• 4:10
  than
• 4:10
  we
• 4:10
  initially
• 4:11
  thought.
• 4:11
  After
• 4:12
  the
• 4:12
  break,
• 4:12
  My
• 4:12
  fellow
• 4:13
  Canadian,
• 4:13
  Dr.
• 4:13
  Dave
• 4:14
  Taves
• 4:14
  joins
• 4:14
  us
• 4:15
  to
• 4:15
  walk
• 4:15
  through
• 4:15
  how
• 4:15
  DNA,
• 4:16
  song
• 4:16
  and
• 4:16
  behavior
• 4:17
  help
• 4:18
  us
• 4:18
  draw
• 4:18
  and
• 4:18
  redraw
• 4:19
  the
• 4:19
  lines
• 4:19
  and
• 4:20
  why,
• 4:20
  in
• 4:20
  the
• 4:21
  case
• 4:21
  of
• 4:21
  the
• 4:21
  redpoll
• 4:22
  finch
• 4:22
  saga,
• 4:22
  the
• 4:23
  only
• 4:23
  real
• 4:23
  villain
• 4:23
  is
• 4:24
  evidence.
• 4:24
  Not
• 4:25
  me.
• 4:26
  Stay
• 4:26
  with
• 4:26
  us.
• 4:32
  Well,
• 4:33
  welcome
• 4:33
  back
• 4:33
  everyone.
• 4:34
  I'm
• 4:34
  super
• 4:34
  excited
• 4:35
  to
• 4:35
  have
• 4:35
  Dave
• 4:36
  Toews
• 4:36
  in
• 4:36
  the
• 4:37
  studio
• 4:37
  with
• 4:37
  me
• 4:37
  today.
• 4:38
  Well,
• 4:38
  virtually
• 4:38
  at
• 4:39
  least.
• 4:39
  Dave
• 4:39
  and
• 4:39
  I
• 4:40
  have
• 4:40
  been
• 4:41
  friends
• 4:41
  for
• 4:41
  a
• 4:42
  really
• 4:42
  long
• 4:42
  time
• 4:42
  now
• 4:42
  and
• 4:43
  it's
• 4:43
  great
• 4:43
  to
• 4:43
  have
• 4:43
  a
• 4:43
  chance
• 4:43
  to
• 4:44
  chat
• 4:44
  about
• 4:44
  this
• 4:44
  really
• 4:44
  exciting
• 4:45
  topic.
• 4:45
  So
• 4:45
  welcome
• 4:46
  Dave
• 4:46
  and
• 4:46
  thanks
• 4:46
  for
• 4:46
  coming.
• 4:47
  Yeah,
• 4:47
  thank
• 4:48
  you.
• 4:48
  I
• 4:48
  was
• 4:48
  just
• 4:48
  trying
• 4:48
  to
• 4:48
  do
• 4:49
  mental
• 4:49
  math
• 4:49
  and
• 4:49
  what
• 4:49
  it
• 4:49
  was,
• 4:50
  I
• 4:50
  think
• 4:50
  it
• 4:50
  was
• 4:50
  2009,
• 4:51
  so.
• 4:52
  Oh
• 4:52
  yeah,
• 4:52
  yeah,
• 4:53
  Philadelphia,
• 4:53
  right?
• 4:54
  Yeah,
• 4:55
  yeah,
• 4:55
  the
• 4:55
  Philadelphia
• 4:56
  AOS
• 4:56
  meeting
• 4:57
  and.
• 4:57
  Then,
• 4:57
  oh
• 4:57
  yeah,
• 4:58
  American
• 4:58
  Ornithological
• 4:59
  Society
• 5:00
  at
• 5:00
  the
• 5:00
  time,
• 5:01
  the
• 5:01
  American
• 5:02
  Ornithological
• 5:02
  Union.
• 5:03
  Very
• 5:03
  critical
• 5:04
  distinction.
• 5:04
  There
• 5:05
  was
• 5:05
  lots
• 5:05
  of
• 5:05
  critical
• 5:05
  distinction.
• 5:08
  We're
• 5:08
  not
• 5:08
  going
• 5:08
  to
• 5:08
  focus
• 5:09
  on
• 5:09
  the
• 5:09
  name
• 5:09
  of
• 5:10
  the
• 5:10
  society
• 5:10
  this
• 5:11
  morning.
• 5:13
  Start
• 5:13
  off
• 5:13
  by
• 5:14
  talking
• 5:14
  about
• 5:15
  a
• 5:15
  question
• 5:15
  that
• 5:16
  I
• 5:16
  Think,
• 5:16
  a
• 5:16
  lot
• 5:16
  of
• 5:16
  people
• 5:17
  think,
• 5:17
  has
• 5:18
  a
• 5:18
  very
• 5:19
  simple
• 5:19
  answer,
• 5:19
  a
• 5:20
  very
• 5:20
  clear
• 5:20
  answer,
• 5:21
  which
• 5:22
  is
• 5:22
  actually
• 5:22
  a
• 5:22
  little
• 5:22
  bit
• 5:22
  more
• 5:23
  or
• 5:23
  a
• 5:23
  lot
• 5:23
  more
• 5:24
  complicated,
• 5:24
  depending
• 5:24
  on
• 5:25
  how
• 5:25
  you
• 5:25
  think
• 5:25
  about
• 5:25
  it.
• 5:25
  But
• 5:26
  let's
• 5:26
  start
• 5:27
  off
• 5:27
  our
• 5:27
  conversation
• 5:28
  before
• 5:28
  we
• 5:28
  get
• 5:28
  into
• 5:28
  splits
• 5:29
  and
• 5:29
  lumps
• 5:30
  and
• 5:30
  all
• 5:30
  of
• 5:31
  those
• 5:31
  things,
• 5:31
  with
• 5:32
  the
• 5:32
  broader
• 5:32
  question,
• 5:33
  what
• 5:34
  is
• 5:34
  a
• 5:34
  species?
• 5:35
  I
• 5:36
  mean,
• 5:36
  yeah,
• 5:36
  getting
• 5:36
  right
• 5:37
  into
• 5:37
  it.
• 5:37
  I
• 5:37
  mean,
• 5:37
  that's
• 5:37
  usually
• 5:38
  like
• 5:38
  the
• 5:39
  question
• 5:39
  at
• 5:39
  a
• 5:39
  conference,
• 5:40
  someone
• 5:40
  asks
• 5:40
  at
• 5:40
  the
• 5:41
  end
• 5:41
  and
• 5:42
  everyone
• 5:42
  kind
• 5:42
  of
• 5:42
  rolls
• 5:42
  their
• 5:43
  eyes
• 5:44
  and
• 5:44
  it's.
• 5:44
  But
• 5:44
  it's,
• 5:44
  you
• 5:45
  know,
• 5:45
  it's
• 5:45
  an
• 5:45
  important
• 5:45
  question.
• 5:47
  As
• 5:47
  you
• 5:47
  know,
• 5:47
  it
• 5:48
  goes
• 5:48
  back
• 5:48
  to
• 5:49
  a
• 5:49
  definition,
• 5:51
  early
• 5:52
  50s
• 5:52
  Ernst
• 5:53
  Meyer,
• 5:53
  who
• 5:53
  came
• 5:54
  up
• 5:54
  with
• 5:54
  the
• 5:54
  biological
• 5:55
  species
• 5:55
  concept.
• 5:57
  And
• 5:57
  he
• 5:57
  defined
• 5:58
  species
• 5:58
  as
• 5:59
  groups
• 6:00
  of
• 6:01
  individuals
• 6:02
  that
• 6:03
  only
• 6:03
  interbreed
• 6:04
  with
• 6:04
  other
• 6:04
  individuals
• 6:05
  of
• 6:05
  that
• 6:05
  group.
• 6:05
  And
• 6:06
  he
• 6:06
  gave
• 6:06
  it
• 6:06
  a
• 6:06
  special
• 6:07
  name.
• 6:07
  He
• 6:07
  called
• 6:07
  it
• 6:08
  reproductive
• 6:08
  isolation.
• 6:10
  And
• 6:11
  that
• 6:11
  are,
• 6:11
  you
• 6:11
  know,
• 6:11
  in
• 6:11
  the
• 6:12
  intervening
• 6:12
  50
• 6:12
  some
• 6:13
  years,
• 6:14
  we,
• 6:16
  there's
• 6:17
  other
• 6:18
  definitions
• 6:19
  that
• 6:19
  have
• 6:20
  arisen
• 6:21
  and
• 6:21
  debates
• 6:22
  about
• 6:23
  how
• 6:23
  broad
• 6:23
  and
• 6:24
  applicable
• 6:24
  that
• 6:25
  definition
• 6:26
  is,
• 6:28
  but
• 6:28
  at
• 6:28
  least
• 6:28
  in
• 6:28
  the
• 6:29
  bird
• 6:29
  world,
• 6:29
  that's
• 6:30
  the
• 6:30
  one
• 6:30
  that
• 6:31
  is
• 6:32
  most
• 6:32
  often
• 6:33
  used.
• 6:34
  Yeah,
• 6:34
  definitely,
• 6:35
  I
• 6:35
  agree.
• 6:35
  The
• 6:35
  biological
• 6:36
  species
• 6:36
  concept,
• 6:37
  this,
• 6:37
  this
• 6:37
  reproductive
• 6:38
  isolation
• 6:38
  question,
• 6:39
  which
• 6:39
  we're
• 6:39
  going
• 6:39
  to
• 6:39
  be
• 6:39
  talking
• 6:40
  a
• 6:40
  lot
• 6:40
  about
• 6:40
  today.
• 6:41
  And
• 6:41
  in
• 6:41
  the
• 6:41
  context
• 6:42
  of
• 6:42
  that,
• 6:42
  like
• 6:43
  a
• 6:43
  lot
• 6:43
  of
• 6:43
  the
• 6:43
  birds
• 6:44
  that
• 6:44
  you
• 6:44
  and
• 6:44
  I
• 6:44
  study
• 6:45
  are
• 6:46
  not
• 6:46
  reproductively
• 6:47
  isolated,
• 6:47
  but
• 6:47
  we
• 6:47
  still
• 6:48
  consider
• 6:48
  them
• 6:49
  species
• 6:49
  sometimes,
• 6:51
  but
• 6:51
  not
• 6:51
  all
• 6:51
  the
• 6:51
  time.
• 6:53
  Can
• 6:53
  you
• 6:53
  talk
• 6:53
  a
• 6:53
  little
• 6:54
  bit
• 6:54
  about
• 6:54
  that?
• 6:54
  Like
• 6:54
  for
• 6:54
  you
• 6:55
  specifically,
• 6:55
  and
• 6:56
  you're
• 6:56
  generating
• 6:57
  research
• 6:57
  questions
• 6:58
  and
• 6:58
  working
• 6:58
  with
• 6:58
  your
• 6:59
  students,
• 6:59
  what's
• 6:59
  the
• 7:00
  functional
• 7:00
  definition
• 7:01
  that
• 7:01
  you're
• 7:01
  going
• 7:01
  by?
• 7:02
  Yeah,
• 7:02
  I
• 7:03
  mean,
• 7:03
  like
• 7:03
  in
• 7:04
  all
• 7:04
  of
• 7:04
  biology
• 7:05
  there
• 7:05
  are
• 7:05
  like
• 7:05
  gray
• 7:06
  areas
• 7:06
  and
• 7:06
  fuzzy
• 7:07
  edges
• 7:07
  and
• 7:10
  there's
• 7:10
  no
• 7:10
  exception
• 7:11
  for
• 7:11
  species.
• 7:11
  And
• 7:12
  so
• 7:12
  there
• 7:12
  are
• 7:13
  certain
• 7:14
  species
• 7:14
  that
• 7:14
  have
• 7:14
  fuzzy
• 7:15
  edges.
• 7:15
  And
• 7:16
  you
• 7:16
  know,
• 7:16
  we
• 7:16
  call
• 7:17
  those
• 7:18
  actual
• 7:18
  areas
• 7:19
  where
• 7:20
  they,
• 7:20
  you
• 7:20
  know,
• 7:21
  make
• 7:21
  mistakes
• 7:22
  and
• 7:22
  they
• 7:23
  do
• 7:23
  interbreed
• 7:24
  with
• 7:24
  another
• 7:24
  species
• 7:26
  as
• 7:27
  contact
• 7:27
  zones
• 7:28
  and
• 7:28
  hybrid
• 7:28
  zones,
• 7:29
  where
• 7:29
  you
• 7:29
  get,
• 7:30
  you
• 7:30
  know,
• 7:31
  these
• 7:31
  mixed
• 7:32
  up
• 7:32
  individuals,
• 7:33
  you
• 7:33
  know,
• 7:34
  species.
• 7:34
  One
• 7:34
  makes
• 7:35
  a
• 7:35
  mistake
• 7:36
  and
• 7:37
  a
• 7:37
  female
• 7:37
  of
• 7:37
  one
• 7:38
  mates
• 7:38
  with
• 7:38
  the
• 7:38
  male
• 7:39
  of
• 7:39
  another
• 7:40
  and
• 7:41
  you
• 7:41
  get
• 7:41
  a
• 7:41
  hybrid.
• 7:44
  And
• 7:44
  that's
• 7:44
  one
• 7:45
  of
• 7:45
  the
• 7:45
  things
• 7:45
  that
• 7:45
  has
• 7:46
  changed
• 7:46
  over
• 7:46
  the
• 7:46
  last
• 7:46
  50
• 7:47
  years.
• 7:47
  Like
• 7:47
  how
• 7:47
  do
• 7:48
  we
• 7:48
  treat
• 7:49
  things
• 7:49
  that
• 7:50
  otherwise
• 7:50
  look
• 7:51
  like
• 7:51
  a
• 7:51
  good
• 7:52
  species
• 7:54
  in
• 7:55
  that
• 7:56
  for
• 7:56
  all
• 7:57
  other
• 7:57
  intents
• 7:57
  and
• 7:57
  purposes,
• 7:58
  they
• 8:00
  act
• 8:01
  like
• 8:01
  a
• 8:01
  distinct
• 8:02
  species,
• 8:02
  but
• 8:03
  actually
• 8:04
  sometimes
• 8:04
  make
• 8:05
  mistakes
• 8:05
  and
• 8:05
  produce
• 8:06
  hybrids.
• 8:08
  And
• 8:09
  so
• 8:10
  studying
• 8:10
  these
• 8:11
  hybrid
• 8:11
  zones,
• 8:12
  how
• 8:13
  wide
• 8:13
  they
• 8:13
  are,
• 8:14
  how
• 8:14
  big
• 8:14
  they
• 8:14
  are,
• 8:14
  how
• 8:15
  extensive
• 8:15
  the
• 8:16
  hybridization
• 8:16
  is,
• 8:17
  is
• 8:18
  part
• 8:19
  of
• 8:19
  the
• 8:19
  piece
• 8:19
  that
• 8:19
  plays
• 8:20
  into
• 8:21
  whether
• 8:21
  we
• 8:22
  actually
• 8:22
  describe
• 8:23
  something
• 8:23
  as
• 8:23
  a
• 8:24
  distinct
• 8:24
  species
• 8:24
  or
• 8:25
  not,
• 8:25
  even
• 8:25
  if
• 8:25
  they
• 8:26
  do
• 8:26
  form
• 8:27
  hybrids.
• 8:27
  I
• 8:28
  think
• 8:28
  if
• 8:28
  it
• 8:28
  was
• 8:29
  mare
• 8:29
  deciding
• 8:30
  that
• 8:30
  if
• 8:30
  there
• 8:30
  was
• 8:31
  any
• 8:31
  reproductive
• 8:32
  activity
• 8:33
  between
• 8:33
  two
• 8:33
  lineages,
• 8:33
  he
• 8:34
  would
• 8:34
  say,
• 8:34
  oh,
• 8:34
  this
• 8:35
  is
• 8:35
  not
• 8:35
  a
• 8:35
  species.
• 8:36
  And
• 8:36
  according
• 8:36
  specifically
• 8:37
  to
• 8:37
  the
• 8:37
  biological
• 8:38
  species
• 8:38
  concept,
• 8:39
  that's
• 8:39
  correct.
• 8:40
  But,
• 8:40
  yeah,
• 8:40
  hybridization
• 8:41
  adds
• 8:41
  this
• 8:41
  interesting
• 8:42
  wrinkle.
• 8:43
  I
• 8:43
  guess
• 8:43
  the
• 8:43
  way
• 8:43
  I
• 8:43
  think
• 8:43
  about
• 8:44
  it,
• 8:44
  and
• 8:44
  I
• 8:44
  know
• 8:44
  the
• 8:44
  way
• 8:44
  we've
• 8:45
  talked
• 8:45
  about
• 8:45
  it,
• 8:45
  is
• 8:46
  if
• 8:46
  the
• 8:47
  hybrids
• 8:47
  have
• 8:47
  something
• 8:48
  wrong
• 8:48
  with
• 8:48
  them,
• 8:49
  like
• 8:49
  they
• 8:49
  can't
• 8:50
  reproduce
• 8:50
  themselves
• 8:51
  or
• 8:52
  they
• 8:52
  have
• 8:52
  a
• 8:52
  weird
• 8:53
  signal,
• 8:53
  maybe
• 8:53
  they're
• 8:53
  the
• 8:54
  wrong
• 8:54
  color,
• 8:54
  or
• 8:54
  their
• 8:55
  behavior
• 8:55
  is
• 8:55
  screwed
• 8:56
  up
• 8:56
  and
• 8:56
  they're
• 8:57
  isolated
• 8:57
  from
• 8:58
  the
• 8:58
  parents,
• 8:58
  then
• 8:59
  maybe
• 8:59
  we
• 8:59
  would
• 8:59
  still
• 8:59
  consider
• 9:00
  those
• 9:00
  parently
• 9:00
  lineages
• 9:01
  species.
• 9:02
  Right.
• 9:02
  Kind
• 9:02
  of
• 9:02
  separate
• 9:03
  evolutionary
• 9:03
  trajectories.
• 9:04
  But
• 9:04
  if
• 9:05
  the
• 9:05
  hybrids
• 9:05
  can
• 9:05
  mate
• 9:06
  back
• 9:06
  and
• 9:06
  forth,
• 9:06
  it
• 9:06
  gets
• 9:07
  even
• 9:07
  more
• 9:07
  complicated
• 9:08
  and
• 9:08
  it's
• 9:09
  harder
• 9:09
  to
• 9:10
  draw
• 9:10
  a
• 9:10
  box
• 9:11
  around
• 9:11
  something
• 9:11
  which
• 9:12
  we
• 9:12
  like
• 9:12
  to
• 9:13
  do,
• 9:13
  but
• 9:13
  is,
• 9:13
  as
• 9:13
  you
• 9:14
  said,
• 9:14
  very
• 9:14
  hard
• 9:15
  to
• 9:15
  do
• 9:15
  in
• 9:15
  most
• 9:15
  of
• 9:15
  biology.
• 9:17
  I
• 9:17
  think
• 9:17
  it
• 9:17
  was
• 9:17
  the
• 9:17
  early
• 9:18
  70s.
• 9:19
  The
• 9:19
  nuance
• 9:20
  that
• 9:20
  you
• 9:20
  just
• 9:20
  described
• 9:21
  wasn't
• 9:23
  part
• 9:23
  of
• 9:23
  the
• 9:24
  conversations,
• 9:26
  the
• 9:26
  taxonomic
• 9:27
  authorities.
• 9:27
  It
• 9:27
  was
• 9:27
  called
• 9:27
  the
• 9:28
  big
• 9:28
  lump,
• 9:28
  where
• 9:29
  any
• 9:29
  species
• 9:30
  that
• 9:30
  was
• 9:30
  found
• 9:30
  to
• 9:30
  hybridize
• 9:31
  with
• 9:31
  another
• 9:31
  species
• 9:32
  was
• 9:32
  lumped,
• 9:33
  regardless
• 9:34
  of
• 9:34
  all
• 9:34
  the
• 9:34
  nuance
• 9:35
  you
• 9:35
  just
• 9:35
  described.
• 9:37
  And
• 9:37
  so
• 9:38
  it
• 9:39
  meant
• 9:39
  that
• 9:40
  what
• 9:40
  we
• 9:40
  now
• 9:40
  know,
• 9:41
  a
• 9:41
  lot
• 9:41
  of
• 9:41
  species
• 9:41
  that
• 9:42
  were
• 9:43
  merged
• 9:43
  together
• 9:43
  because,
• 9:44
  oh,
• 9:44
  they
• 9:44
  made
• 9:45
  a
• 9:45
  mistake,
• 9:45
  they're
• 9:45
  not
• 9:45
  species.
• 9:46
  On
• 9:47
  further
• 9:47
  investigation,
• 9:47
  we
• 9:48
  actually.
• 9:49
  They're
• 9:50
  probably
• 9:50
  distinct
• 9:51
  species.
• 9:52
  When
• 9:53
  you
• 9:53
  look
• 9:53
  at
• 9:53
  a.
• 9:53
  When
• 9:54
  you
• 9:54
  look
• 9:54
  at
• 9:54
  a
• 9:54
  trajectory
• 9:55
  of
• 9:55
  like
• 9:55
  the
• 9:56
  named
• 9:56
  species
• 9:57
  and
• 9:57
  it
• 9:57
  goes
• 9:58
  up
• 9:58
  and
• 9:58
  up
• 9:58
  and
• 9:58
  up,
• 9:59
  and
• 9:59
  then
• 9:59
  the
• 9:59
  early
• 9:59
  70s
• 10:00
  just
• 10:00
  tanks
• 10:00
  and
• 10:00
  it's
• 10:00
  like,
• 10:01
  oh,
• 10:01
  my
• 10:01
  God,
• 10:01
  was
• 10:01
  there
• 10:01
  like
• 10:02
  an
• 10:02
  extinction
• 10:02
  event?
• 10:03
  Was
• 10:03
  there?
• 10:03
  You
• 10:03
  know,
• 10:03
  some.
• 10:04
  Did
• 10:05
  an
• 10:05
  asteroid
• 10:05
  hit
• 10:05
  the
• 10:06
  Earth
• 10:06
  and
• 10:06
  it's
• 10:07
  like,
• 10:07
  no,
• 10:07
  no,
• 10:07
  they
• 10:07
  just
• 10:07
  changed
• 10:08
  the
• 10:09
  definition
• 10:09
  of
• 10:09
  species.
• 10:10
  But
• 10:10
  yeah,
• 10:11
  at
• 10:11
  least
• 10:11
  we
• 10:11
  didn't
• 10:11
  have
• 10:11
  EBIRD
• 10:12
  back
• 10:12
  in
• 10:12
  the
• 10:12
  90s
• 10:13
  70s.
• 10:13
  And
• 10:14
  a
• 10:14
  record
• 10:14
  of
• 10:14
  that.
• 10:15
  That
• 10:15
  would
• 10:15
  be.
• 10:15
  Didn't
• 10:15
  have
• 10:15
  Flame
• 10:16
  wars
• 10:16
  on
• 10:16
  Twitter
• 10:17
  at
• 10:17
  the
• 10:17
  time.
• 10:18
  Yeah.
• 10:19
  Oh,
• 10:19
  man.
• 10:20
  Bringitback
• 10:21
  or
• 10:21
  whatever.
• 10:23
  Recently
• 10:24
  in
• 10:24
  the
• 10:24
  news
• 10:24
  is
• 10:24
  this
• 10:25
  GRU
• 10:25
  Jay.
• 10:25
  I
• 10:26
  don't
• 10:26
  know
• 10:26
  if
• 10:26
  you've
• 10:26
  seen
• 10:26
  the
• 10:27
  coverage
• 10:27
  of
• 10:27
  the
• 10:28
  green
• 10:28
  jay
• 10:29
  blue
• 10:29
  jay
• 10:29
  hybrid
• 10:30
  that
• 10:30
  was
• 10:31
  discovered.
• 10:32
  Some
• 10:32
  news
• 10:33
  coverage
• 10:33
  of
• 10:33
  the
• 10:33
  grue
• 10:34
  jay
• 10:34
  is
• 10:34
  calling
• 10:34
  it
• 10:34
  a
• 10:35
  hybrid
• 10:35
  species
• 10:36
  or
• 10:36
  unprecedented
• 10:37
  evolutionary
• 10:39
  event.
• 10:39
  What's
• 10:40
  your
• 10:40
  take
• 10:40
  on
• 10:41
  this
• 10:41
  green
• 10:42
  J
• 10:42
  blue
• 10:43
  jay
• 10:43
  hybrid
• 10:43
  discovery,
• 10:44
  given
• 10:44
  that
• 10:44
  you've
• 10:44
  discovered
• 10:45
  some
• 10:45
  really
• 10:45
  weird
• 10:46
  hybrids
• 10:46
  yourself?
• 10:47
  Yeah.
• 10:47
  So
• 10:48
  what
• 10:48
  I
• 10:48
  would
• 10:48
  say
• 10:48
  is,
• 10:48
  like,
• 10:50
  first,
• 10:50
  unlike
• 10:51
  a
• 10:51
  lot
• 10:51
  of
• 10:51
  the
• 10:52
  potential
• 10:53
  cool,
• 10:54
  crazy
• 10:54
  hybrids,
• 10:55
  they
• 10:55
  actually
• 10:55
  had
• 10:55
  genetic
• 10:56
  data
• 10:56
  for
• 10:56
  this.
• 10:57
  Yeah.
• 10:57
  Which
• 10:57
  is
• 10:57
  great.
• 10:58
  Which
• 10:58
  was
• 10:58
  great.
• 10:58
  I
• 10:58
  think
• 10:59
  that's
• 10:59
  cool.
• 11:00
  But
• 11:00
  the
• 11:00
  problem,
• 11:01
  I
• 11:01
  think,
• 11:01
  comes,
• 11:02
  like,
• 11:03
  in
• 11:03
  the
• 11:03
  term
• 11:03
  species.
• 11:05
  I
• 11:05
  can't
• 11:06
  remember
• 11:06
  the
• 11:06
  Latin
• 11:06
  derivation,
• 11:07
  but
• 11:07
  it's
• 11:07
  like
• 11:07
  describing
• 11:08
  a
• 11:08
  thing.
• 11:08
  And
• 11:09
  we
• 11:09
  use
• 11:09
  it
• 11:09
  in
• 11:10
  our
• 11:11
  colloquially.
• 11:13
  And
• 11:14
  so
• 11:14
  when
• 11:14
  we
• 11:14
  talk
• 11:14
  about,
• 11:15
  you
• 11:15
  know,
• 11:16
  a
• 11:16
  new
• 11:16
  thing,
• 11:16
  people
• 11:17
  will
• 11:17
  call
• 11:17
  it
• 11:18
  like,
• 11:18
  oh,
• 11:19
  it's
• 11:19
  a
• 11:19
  new.
• 11:19
  It's
• 11:19
  a
• 11:19
  new
• 11:20
  thing,
• 11:20
  it's
• 11:20
  a
• 11:20
  new
• 11:20
  species,
• 11:21
  but
• 11:22
  it's
• 11:22
  not.
• 11:22
  It's
• 11:22
  just
• 11:23
  a
• 11:23
  weird,
• 11:24
  oddball
• 11:24
  hybrid
• 11:25
  between
• 11:26
  two
• 11:27
  otherwise
• 11:27
  distinct
• 11:28
  species.
• 11:29
  Right.
• 11:30
  You
• 11:30
  know,
• 11:31
  some
• 11:32
  of
• 11:32
  the
• 11:32
  confusion
• 11:33
  comes.
• 11:34
  I
• 11:34
  mean,
• 11:34
  you
• 11:34
  were
• 11:35
  referring
• 11:35
  to
• 11:35
  ebird
• 11:36
  and,
• 11:36
  like,
• 11:37
  where
• 11:37
  you've
• 11:37
  got
• 11:37
  a
• 11:38
  list
• 11:38
  of
• 11:39
  species
• 11:39
  that
• 11:40
  you
• 11:40
  can
• 11:40
  select,
• 11:41
  you
• 11:41
  can
• 11:41
  also
• 11:41
  select,
• 11:42
  which
• 11:42
  is
• 11:42
  cool.
• 11:43
  Hybrids
• 11:44
  between
• 11:44
  them.
• 11:45
  Right.
• 11:46
  And
• 11:46
  so
• 11:47
  I
• 11:48
  think
• 11:48
  the.
• 11:49
  The
• 11:50
  fact
• 11:50
  that
• 11:50
  you
• 11:50
  can
• 11:51
  select
• 11:51
  it,
• 11:51
  these
• 11:52
  hybrids,
• 11:52
  just
• 11:52
  like
• 11:53
  you
• 11:53
  select
• 11:53
  another
• 11:53
  species,
• 11:54
  can
• 11:55
  sometimes
• 11:55
  leak
• 11:56
  into
• 11:56
  the
• 11:56
  way
• 11:57
  people
• 11:57
  think
• 11:57
  about
• 12:00
  a
• 12:00
  hybrid
• 12:01
  between
• 12:01
  species
• 12:02
  and
• 12:02
  a
• 12:02
  distinct
• 12:03
  species
• 12:03
  itself.
• 12:04
  Okay,
• 12:05
  I
• 12:05
  want
• 12:05
  to
• 12:05
  take
• 12:05
  a
• 12:06
  minute
• 12:06
  to
• 12:06
  set
• 12:06
  the
• 12:06
  record
• 12:06
  straight.
• 12:07
  So
• 12:08
  earlier
• 12:08
  in
• 12:08
  the
• 12:08
  episode,
• 12:09
  I
• 12:09
  added
• 12:09
  myself
• 12:10
  as
• 12:10
  one
• 12:10
  of
• 12:10
  the
• 12:10
  villains
• 12:12
  responsible
• 12:13
  for
• 12:13
  removing
• 12:14
  a
• 12:14
  bird
• 12:14
  from
• 12:15
  everyone's
• 12:15
  life
• 12:15
  list.
• 12:16
  The
• 12:16
  hoary
• 12:16
  Redpoll
• 12:17
  is
• 12:17
  no
• 12:17
  longer
• 12:18
  an
• 12:18
  ebird
• 12:19
  because
• 12:19
  of
• 12:19
  work
• 12:19
  that
• 12:19
  I
• 12:20
  and
• 12:20
  others
• 12:20
  have
• 12:21
  done.
• 12:21
  I
• 12:22
  want
• 12:22
  to
• 12:22
  also
• 12:22
  point
• 12:22
  out
• 12:23
  that
• 12:23
  I
• 12:23
  have
• 12:23
  played
• 12:24
  a
• 12:24
  role
• 12:24
  in
• 12:24
  adding
• 12:25
  a
• 12:25
  species.
• 12:25
  The
• 12:25
  Chihuahuan
• 12:26
  meadowlark,
• 12:27
  which
• 12:27
  is
• 12:27
  a
• 12:27
  new
• 12:27
  species
• 12:28
  for
• 12:28
  North
• 12:28
  America,
• 12:29
  was
• 12:29
  added
• 12:30
  to
• 12:30
  everyone's
• 12:30
  list
• 12:30
  based
• 12:31
  on
• 12:31
  work
• 12:31
  that
• 12:31
  Johanna
• 12:32
  Beam,
• 12:32
  who
• 12:32
  was
• 12:33
  a
• 12:33
  PhD
• 12:33
  student
• 12:33
  actually
• 12:34
  with
• 12:34
  Dave,
• 12:34
  did
• 12:35
  while
• 12:35
  she
• 12:35
  was
• 12:35
  an
• 12:35
  undergrad
• 12:36
  in
• 12:36
  my
• 12:36
  lab.
• 12:36
  But,
• 12:37
  Dave,
• 12:37
  I
• 12:37
  know
• 12:37
  that
• 12:37
  you've
• 12:38
  only
• 12:38
  ever
• 12:38
  been
• 12:38
  a
• 12:39
  hero
• 12:39
  in
• 12:39
  this
• 12:40
  saga
• 12:40
  of
• 12:41
  taking
• 12:42
  species
• 12:42
  away
• 12:42
  and
• 12:42
  adding
• 12:43
  species.
• 12:43
  You've
• 12:43
  only
• 12:44
  ever
• 12:44
  added
• 12:44
  them.
• 12:45
  Can
• 12:45
  you
• 12:45
  talk
• 12:45
  to
• 12:46
  us
• 12:46
  a
• 12:46
  bit.
• 12:46
  About
• 12:46
  your
• 12:46
  research
• 12:47
  and
• 12:47
  how
• 12:47
  you
• 12:47
  determined
• 12:48
  what
• 12:49
  was
• 12:49
  once
• 12:49
  thought
• 12:49
  as
• 12:50
  a
• 12:50
  single
• 12:50
  species
• 12:50
  to
• 12:51
  actually
• 12:51
  be
• 12:51
  two?
• 12:52
  Yeah.
• 12:53
  So
• 12:53
  this
• 12:53
  is
• 12:54
  work
• 12:55
  way
• 12:55
  back
• 12:56
  during
• 12:56
  my
• 12:56
  master's
• 12:57
  degree,
• 12:58
  and
• 12:59
  we
• 13:00
  were.
• 13:01
  I
• 13:01
  was
• 13:01
  working
• 13:01
  with
• 13:01
  Darren
• 13:02
  Irwin
• 13:02
  at
• 13:03
  the
• 13:03
  time,
• 13:03
  and
• 13:03
  we
• 13:03
  were
• 13:03
  studying
• 13:05
  what
• 13:05
  at
• 13:05
  the
• 13:05
  time
• 13:05
  were
• 13:06
  known
• 13:06
  as
• 13:06
  winter
• 13:06
  wrens
• 13:07
  across
• 13:08
  North
• 13:08
  America.
• 13:10
  But
• 13:10
  previous
• 13:11
  genetic
• 13:12
  work
• 13:12
  had
• 13:12
  suggested
• 13:13
  that
• 13:14
  they
• 13:15
  were,
• 13:15
  you
• 13:15
  know,
• 13:15
  the
• 13:16
  eastern
• 13:16
  form
• 13:17
  of
• 13:17
  winter
• 13:17
  wren
• 13:18
  and
• 13:18
  the
• 13:18
  western
• 13:18
  form
• 13:18
  of
• 13:18
  winter
• 13:19
  wren
• 13:19
  were
• 13:19
  pretty
• 13:19
  genetically
• 13:20
  distinct.
• 13:21
  And,
• 13:22
  well,
• 13:22
  they.
• 13:22
  They
• 13:22
  looked
• 13:23
  almost
• 13:23
  identical,
• 13:24
  right?
• 13:24
  Yeah.
• 13:24
  Little
• 13:25
  brown.
• 13:25
  Exactly.
• 13:26
  Little
• 13:26
  brown
• 13:26
  jobs.
• 13:27
  That's
• 13:27
  the
• 13:28
  derogatory
• 13:28
  term
• 13:28
  we
• 13:29
  use
• 13:29
  in
• 13:29
  the
• 13:29
  birding
• 13:29
  world.
• 13:30
  Super
• 13:31
  cute,
• 13:31
  though.
• 13:31
  Like,
• 13:32
  I
• 13:32
  mean,
• 13:33
  like
• 13:33
  little
• 13:33
  mice
• 13:34
  in
• 13:34
  the
• 13:34
  forest
• 13:34
  that
• 13:35
  can
• 13:35
  fly.
• 13:37
  But
• 13:37
  they,
• 13:38
  you
• 13:38
  know,
• 13:38
  traditional
• 13:39
  taxonomy
• 13:41
  was
• 13:42
  usually
• 13:42
  working
• 13:42
  with
• 13:43
  what
• 13:43
  they
• 13:43
  had
• 13:43
  in
• 13:43
  front
• 13:43
  of
• 13:44
  them.
• 13:45
  And
• 13:46
  a
• 13:46
  lot
• 13:46
  of
• 13:46
  that
• 13:46
  time
• 13:46
  it
• 13:47
  included,
• 13:47
  like,
• 13:47
  a
• 13:48
  specimen
• 13:48
  in
• 13:48
  a
• 13:48
  museum
• 13:49
  drawer.
• 13:50
  And
• 13:51
  one
• 13:51
  thing
• 13:51
  we
• 13:51
  know
• 13:51
  about
• 13:52
  songbirds
• 13:52
  is
• 13:53
  they,
• 13:53
  you
• 13:53
  know,
• 13:53
  song
• 13:54
  is
• 13:54
  really
• 13:54
  important
• 13:55
  in,
• 13:55
  you
• 13:56
  know,
• 13:56
  their.
• 13:57
  Their
• 13:57
  communication.
• 13:59
  A
• 13:59
  bird
• 14:00
  in
• 14:00
  a
• 14:00
  door
• 14:00
  does
• 14:00
  not
• 14:00
  sing.
• 14:01
  Um,
• 14:02
  and
• 14:02
  so
• 14:03
  one
• 14:03
  of
• 14:03
  the
• 14:03
  things
• 14:03
  that.
• 14:04
  One
• 14:04
  of
• 14:04
  the
• 14:05
  main
• 14:05
  differences
• 14:05
  between
• 14:06
  these
• 14:06
  eastern
• 14:07
  and
• 14:07
  western
• 14:07
  winter
• 14:07
  wrens
• 14:08
  was
• 14:08
  the
• 14:08
  song
• 14:09
  that
• 14:09
  they
• 14:09
  sing.
• 14:10
  And
• 14:10
  so
• 14:12
  I
• 14:12
  went
• 14:12
  out,
• 14:13
  we
• 14:13
  did
• 14:13
  recording
• 14:14
  of
• 14:14
  birds.
• 14:15
  We
• 14:15
  found
• 14:15
  an
• 14:15
  area
• 14:15
  where
• 14:16
  we
• 14:16
  got
• 14:16
  eastern
• 14:17
  and
• 14:17
  western
• 14:17
  birds
• 14:17
  that
• 14:18
  were
• 14:18
  singing
• 14:19
  basically
• 14:20
  in
• 14:20
  neighboring
• 14:20
  territories,
• 14:22
  did
• 14:22
  the
• 14:22
  genetics
• 14:23
  and
• 14:23
  showed
• 14:24
  that,
• 14:24
  like,
• 14:25
  they
• 14:25
  seemed
• 14:25
  to
• 14:25
  be
• 14:26
  treating
• 14:26
  each
• 14:26
  other,
• 14:27
  even
• 14:27
  where
• 14:27
  they
• 14:27
  occurred
• 14:28
  together
• 14:28
  in
• 14:28
  the
• 14:28
  same
• 14:28
  spot
• 14:29
  in
• 14:29
  this
• 14:29
  cool
• 14:29
  town,
• 14:30
  Tumblr
• 14:30
  Ridge,
• 14:30
  up
• 14:30
  in
• 14:31
  northern
• 14:31
  British
• 14:31
  Columbia.
• 14:32
  Oh,
• 14:32
  yeah.
• 14:32
  I
• 14:32
  was
• 14:33
  wondering
• 14:33
  where
• 14:33
  it
• 14:33
  was.
• 14:33
  That's
• 14:34
  nice.
• 14:34
  Yeah,
• 14:34
  yeah.
• 14:35
  So
• 14:35
  it's
• 14:35
  like
• 14:36
  where
• 14:36
  the
• 14:36
  kind
• 14:37
  of
• 14:37
  boreal
• 14:37
  forest
• 14:37
  meets
• 14:38
  the
• 14:38
  Rocky
• 14:38
  Mountains.
• 14:38
  So
• 14:38
  you
• 14:39
  get
• 14:39
  a
• 14:39
  lot
• 14:39
  of,
• 14:39
  like,
• 14:39
  cool
• 14:39
  east
• 14:40
  meets
• 14:40
  west
• 14:41
  stories
• 14:41
  there.
• 14:43
  And
• 14:43
  this
• 14:43
  seemed
• 14:43
  to
• 14:43
  be
• 14:43
  one.
• 14:44
  So
• 14:44
  it
• 14:44
  was
• 14:44
  like
• 14:44
  genetically
• 14:45
  very
• 14:45
  distinct.
• 14:46
  They
• 14:47
  seem
• 14:47
  to
• 14:48
  not
• 14:49
  breed
• 14:49
  with
• 14:49
  each
• 14:49
  other
• 14:49
  where
• 14:50
  they
• 14:50
  came
• 14:50
  into
• 14:50
  contact.
• 14:51
  While
• 14:51
  they
• 14:51
  looked
• 14:52
  very
• 14:52
  similar,
• 14:52
  they
• 14:53
  sang
• 14:53
  very
• 14:53
  different
• 14:54
  songs.
• 14:54
  And
• 14:55
  so
• 14:55
  we
• 14:55
  kind
• 14:55
  of
• 14:55
  all
• 14:56
  put
• 14:56
  that
• 14:56
  into
• 14:56
  a
• 14:56
  package
• 14:57
  together
• 14:57
  to
• 14:58
  split
• 14:58
  them.
• 15:00
  The
• 15:00
  eastern
• 15:00
  form
• 15:01
  retained
• 15:01
  the
• 15:01
  original
• 15:02
  name
• 15:02
  winter
• 15:02
  wren,
• 15:03
  but
• 15:03
  then
• 15:03
  we
• 15:04
  named
• 15:04
  the
• 15:04
  western
• 15:05
  form
• 15:06
  the
• 15:06
  Pacific
• 15:06
  wren,
• 15:07
  which
• 15:08
  wasn't.
• 15:08
  I
• 15:08
  don't
• 15:09
  know,
• 15:10
  with
• 15:10
  now
• 15:10
  20
• 15:11
  years
• 15:11
  on,
• 15:11
  I
• 15:11
  might
• 15:11
  have
• 15:12
  come
• 15:12
  up
• 15:12
  with
• 15:12
  a
• 15:12
  more
• 15:12
  creative
• 15:13
  name,
• 15:13
  but
• 15:13
  it
• 15:13
  stuck.
• 15:16
  I
• 15:16
  think
• 15:16
  I'm
• 15:17
  glad
• 15:17
  I
• 15:17
  didn't
• 15:17
  name
• 15:17
  it
• 15:17
  after
• 15:17
  myself,
• 15:18
  but.
• 15:19
  Yeah,
• 15:19
  right.
• 15:19
  That
• 15:19
  wouldn't
• 15:20
  have
• 15:20
  been
• 15:20
  the
• 15:20
  right
• 15:21
  move
• 15:22
  for
• 15:22
  folks
• 15:22
  listening.
• 15:23
  It
• 15:23
  is
• 15:23
  poor
• 15:24
  form
• 15:24
  to
• 15:24
  name
• 15:24
  anything
• 15:25
  after
• 15:25
  yourself.
• 15:25
  If
• 15:26
  you
• 15:26
  ever
• 15:26
  describe
• 15:26
  a
• 15:26
  new
• 15:27
  species.
• 15:27
  So
• 15:27
  those
• 15:28
  that
• 15:28
  do
• 15:28
  it.
• 15:29
  Yeah,
• 15:29
  you
• 15:30
  can
• 15:30
  judge
• 15:30
  them.
• 15:32
  You
• 15:33
  used
• 15:33
  genetics
• 15:34
  and
• 15:34
  song
• 15:35
  because
• 15:35
  the
• 15:35
  plumage
• 15:36
  really
• 15:36
  wasn't
• 15:37
  distinguishable,
• 15:37
  and
• 15:37
  that's
• 15:38
  why
• 15:38
  these
• 15:38
  birds
• 15:39
  hadn't
• 15:39
  been
• 15:40
  described
• 15:40
  as
• 15:40
  different
• 15:40
  species.
• 15:41
  And
• 15:42
  some
• 15:42
  people
• 15:42
  would
• 15:42
  call
• 15:42
  that
• 15:42
  kind
• 15:42
  of
• 15:43
  a
• 15:43
  cryptic
• 15:43
  speciation
• 15:44
  event
• 15:45
  or
• 15:45
  something
• 15:45
  that
• 15:45
  we
• 15:45
  as
• 15:46
  humans
• 15:46
  couldn't
• 15:46
  visually
• 15:47
  detect
• 15:47
  originally.
• 15:48
  So
• 15:49
  in
• 15:49
  general,
• 15:49
  are
• 15:49
  people
• 15:50
  using
• 15:50
  genetics
• 15:51
  and
• 15:51
  song
• 15:52
  and
• 15:52
  plumage,
• 15:53
  or
• 15:53
  a
• 15:53
  combo
• 15:54
  of
• 15:54
  a
• 15:54
  few
• 15:54
  of
• 15:55
  them.
• 15:55
  How
• 15:55
  has
• 15:55
  that
• 15:55
  changed
• 15:56
  since
• 15:56
  you.
• 15:57
  Because
• 15:57
  you
• 15:57
  were
• 15:57
  saying
• 15:57
  you
• 15:57
  did
• 15:58
  this
• 15:58
  work
• 15:58
  when
• 15:58
  you
• 15:58
  were
• 15:58
  a
• 15:58
  master's
• 15:59
  student,
• 15:59
  which
• 15:59
  no
• 16:00
  shade
• 16:00
  was
• 16:00
  a
• 16:00
  while
• 16:00
  ago.
• 16:02
  I
• 16:02
  mean,
• 16:03
  it
• 16:03
  was
• 16:03
  for
• 16:03
  me,
• 16:03
  too.
• 16:04
  How
• 16:05
  have
• 16:05
  things
• 16:05
  changed
• 16:05
  in
• 16:05
  that
• 16:06
  context?
• 16:06
  What
• 16:06
  are
• 16:06
  people
• 16:06
  using
• 16:07
  now
• 16:07
  to
• 16:07
  kind
• 16:07
  of
• 16:07
  ask
• 16:08
  these
• 16:08
  questions?
• 16:09
  Yeah,
• 16:09
  I
• 16:09
  mean,
• 16:09
  you
• 16:10
  know,
• 16:10
  a
• 16:10
  hundred
• 16:10
  years
• 16:10
  ago,
• 16:10
  when
• 16:11
  people
• 16:11
  were
• 16:11
  describing
• 16:11
  these
• 16:12
  things,
• 16:12
  they
• 16:12
  didn't
• 16:12
  even
• 16:12
  have
• 16:12
  the
• 16:13
  ability
• 16:13
  to,
• 16:13
  like,
• 16:14
  record
• 16:14
  the
• 16:15
  songs.
• 16:15
  Like
• 16:15
  they
• 16:15
  could.
• 16:16
  Right?
• 16:16
  Yeah.
• 16:16
  You
• 16:17
  had
• 16:17
  to
• 16:17
  write
• 16:17
  it
• 16:17
  down.
• 16:18
  Yeah.
• 16:18
  You'd
• 16:18
  have
• 16:18
  to,
• 16:18
  like,
• 16:18
  you
• 16:19
  know,
• 16:19
  make
• 16:19
  a
• 16:19
  qualitative
• 16:20
  assessment
• 16:20
  and,
• 16:20
  like,
• 16:21
  hear
• 16:21
  all
• 16:21
  the.
• 16:21
  Anyway,
• 16:22
  so
• 16:23
  that's
• 16:23
  something
• 16:24
  that's
• 16:24
  changed
• 16:24
  over
• 16:25
  the
• 16:25
  last
• 16:25
  hundred
• 16:25
  years.
• 16:26
  Over
• 16:26
  the
• 16:26
  last,
• 16:27
  I
• 16:27
  would
• 16:27
  say,
• 16:27
  two
• 16:27
  decades.
• 16:28
  Yeah.
• 16:29
  It's
• 16:29
  more
• 16:29
  of
• 16:29
  a
• 16:30
  holistic
• 16:32
  approach
• 16:33
  to
• 16:34
  delineating
• 16:36
  species.
• 16:37
  So
• 16:37
  you
• 16:37
  use,
• 16:38
  you
• 16:38
  know,
• 16:39
  the,
• 16:40
  you
• 16:40
  know,
• 16:40
  lots
• 16:40
  of
• 16:40
  measurements,
• 16:43
  plumage.
• 16:44
  But
• 16:44
  now
• 16:44
  it's
• 16:44
  not
• 16:44
  just
• 16:45
  like
• 16:46
  a
• 16:46
  qualitative
• 16:47
  plumage
• 16:48
  score,
• 16:48
  you
• 16:48
  can
• 16:48
  actually,
• 16:49
  you
• 16:49
  know,
• 16:50
  use
• 16:50
  spectrophotometers
• 16:51
  and
• 16:52
  measure
• 16:52
  the
• 16:53
  wavelengths
• 16:54
  of
• 16:54
  light
• 16:54
  that
• 16:54
  may
• 16:55
  not
• 16:55
  be
• 16:56
  able
• 16:56
  to
• 16:56
  be
• 16:56
  seen
• 16:57
  by
• 16:57
  the
• 16:57
  human
• 16:58
  eye
• 16:58
  because,
• 16:59
  you
• 17:00
  know,
• 17:00
  birds
• 17:01
  can
• 17:01
  see
• 17:01
  in
• 17:02
  a
• 17:03
  broader
• 17:03
  visual
• 17:03
  spectrum,
• 17:05
  in
• 17:05
  some
• 17:05
  cases
• 17:05
  in
• 17:06
  the
• 17:06
  UV
• 17:06
  light.
• 17:09
  And
• 17:09
  then
• 17:09
  in
• 17:10
  addition
• 17:10
  to
• 17:10
  that,
• 17:10
  you
• 17:10
  can
• 17:11
  use
• 17:11
  recordings
• 17:11
  and
• 17:12
  songs.
• 17:13
  And
• 17:14
  our
• 17:14
  ability
• 17:15
  to
• 17:15
  use
• 17:16
  genetics,
• 17:17
  I
• 17:17
  mean,
• 17:17
  I
• 17:18
  think
• 17:18
  there's
• 17:18
  some
• 17:18
  reticence
• 17:19
  there
• 17:19
  because
• 17:20
  interpreting,
• 17:21
  understanding,
• 17:22
  explaining
• 17:23
  genetic
• 17:26
  data
• 17:26
  can
• 17:26
  be
• 17:28
  challenging.
• 17:28
  It's
• 17:29
  one
• 17:29
  of
• 17:29
  the
• 17:29
  most
• 17:29
  important
• 17:29
  tools
• 17:30
  in
• 17:30
  the
• 17:30
  toolbox
• 17:31
  these
• 17:31
  days.
• 17:34
  Okay.
• 17:35
  So
• 17:35
  in
• 17:35
  terms
• 17:36
  of
• 17:36
  using
• 17:37
  large
• 17:37
  genetic
• 17:38
  data
• 17:38
  sets
• 17:38
  to
• 17:39
  ask
• 17:39
  long
• 17:40
  standing
• 17:40
  questions
• 17:40
  about
• 17:41
  species
• 17:42
  differences,
• 17:42
  one
• 17:43
  project
• 17:43
  that
• 17:43
  we've
• 17:43
  both
• 17:44
  been
• 17:44
  involved
• 17:44
  with
• 17:45
  and
• 17:45
  started
• 17:45
  being
• 17:46
  involved
• 17:46
  with
• 17:46
  as
• 17:46
  postdocs
• 17:47
  at
• 17:47
  the
• 17:47
  Lab
• 17:47
  of
• 17:48
  Ornithology
• 17:49
  was
• 17:49
  this
• 17:49
  question
• 17:49
  about
• 17:50
  blue
• 17:50
  winged
• 17:50
  and
• 17:50
  golden
• 17:51
  winged
• 17:51
  warblers.
• 17:51
  And,
• 17:52
  you
• 17:52
  know,
• 17:52
  being
• 17:52
  able
• 17:52
  to
• 17:53
  sequence
• 17:53
  whole
• 17:53
  genomes
• 17:54
  allowed
• 17:54
  us
• 17:54
  to
• 17:55
  discover
• 17:55
  that
• 17:55
  really
• 17:56
  there
• 17:56
  are
• 17:56
  just
• 17:56
  these
• 17:57
  handful
• 17:57
  of
• 17:58
  regions
• 17:59
  in
• 17:59
  the
• 17:59
  genome
• 17:59
  that
• 18:00
  differentiate
• 18:00
  them,
• 18:00
  and
• 18:01
  at
• 18:01
  least
• 18:01
  some
• 18:02
  of
• 18:02
  them
• 18:02
  underlie
• 18:03
  plumage
• 18:03
  differences.
• 18:04
  So
• 18:04
  can
• 18:05
  you
• 18:05
  talk
• 18:05
  a
• 18:05
  little
• 18:05
  bit
• 18:05
  about
• 18:05
  what
• 18:05
  that
• 18:06
  means,
• 18:06
  you
• 18:06
  know,
• 18:06
  and
• 18:07
  what
• 18:07
  your
• 18:07
  journey
• 18:08
  has
• 18:08
  been
• 18:08
  with
• 18:08
  this
• 18:08
  vermivora
• 18:09
  complex?
• 18:10
  Yeah,
• 18:11
  I
• 18:11
  mean,
• 18:12
  it
• 18:12
  was
• 18:13
  a
• 18:13
  fun
• 18:14
  journey
• 18:14
  to
• 18:14
  share
• 18:15
  with
• 18:15
  you.
• 18:16
  Yeah.
• 18:16
  And
• 18:17
  it
• 18:17
  was,
• 18:18
  you
• 18:18
  know,
• 18:19
  that
• 18:19
  is
• 18:19
  like
• 18:20
  a
• 18:20
  mystery
• 18:20
  that
• 18:20
  goes
• 18:21
  back
• 18:21
  to
• 18:21
  like
• 18:22
  the
• 18:23
  1800s,
• 18:24
  you
• 18:24
  know,
• 18:25
  John
• 18:25
  James
• 18:25
  Audubon
• 18:27
  raising
• 18:28
  questions
• 18:28
  about
• 18:28
  their
• 18:29
  species
• 18:29
  status,
• 18:31
  that
• 18:32
  the
• 18:32
  hybrids
• 18:33
  between
• 18:34
  them
• 18:34
  were
• 18:34
  actually
• 18:35
  thought
• 18:35
  to
• 18:35
  be
• 18:35
  distinct
• 18:36
  species
• 18:36
  and
• 18:36
  still
• 18:37
  retained
• 18:37
  their
• 18:37
  names.
• 18:38
  Like
• 18:38
  the
• 18:38
  Brewster's
• 18:39
  warbler
• 18:39
  and
• 18:39
  the
• 18:39
  Lawrence's
• 18:40
  warbler
• 18:40
  are
• 18:41
  not
• 18:41
  actually
• 18:41
  species,
• 18:42
  they're
• 18:42
  just
• 18:42
  hybrid
• 18:43
  named
• 18:43
  hybrids
• 18:44
  between
• 18:44
  them.
• 18:45
  And
• 18:45
  it
• 18:45
  was
• 18:45
  only
• 18:45
  until
• 18:47
  we
• 18:48
  were
• 18:49
  lucky
• 18:49
  enough
• 18:49
  to
• 18:50
  be
• 18:50
  able
• 18:50
  to
• 18:50
  sequence
• 18:51
  their
• 18:51
  whole
• 18:51
  genomes
• 18:52
  that
• 18:52
  we
• 18:52
  actually
• 18:52
  found
• 18:53
  those
• 18:53
  handful
• 18:54
  of
• 18:54
  regions.
• 18:55
  But
• 18:56
  I
• 18:56
  share
• 18:56
  with
• 18:57
  my
• 18:57
  students
• 18:57
  there's
• 18:58
  the
• 18:58
  idea
• 18:59
  of
• 18:59
  some
• 19:00
  Eureka
• 19:00
  discovery
• 19:01
  moment
• 19:01
  with
• 19:02
  a
• 19:03
  scientist
• 19:03
  running
• 19:04
  down
• 19:04
  the
• 19:04
  hallway
• 19:04
  screaming
• 19:05
  to
• 19:05
  her
• 19:05
  colleagues
• 19:05
  like,
• 19:05
  eureka.
• 19:06
  And
• 19:06
  it's
• 19:06
  like,
• 19:07
  yeah,
• 19:07
  21st
• 19:07
  century,
• 19:08
  we
• 19:08
  don't
• 19:08
  do
• 19:08
  that.
• 19:09
  I
• 19:09
  was
• 19:09
  drinking
• 19:09
  red
• 19:09
  wine
• 19:10
  in
• 19:10
  my
• 19:10
  basement
• 19:11
  and
• 19:11
  I
• 19:11
  like
• 19:12
  made
• 19:12
  the
• 19:12
  graph
• 19:13
  and
• 19:13
  I
• 19:13
  sent
• 19:14
  you
• 19:14
  a
• 19:14
  screen
• 19:14
  cap
• 19:15
  on
• 19:15
  imessage
• 19:16
  and
• 19:16
  I
• 19:16
  was
• 19:16
  like,
• 19:16
  holy,
• 19:18
  this
• 19:18
  is,
• 19:18
  this
• 19:19
  is
• 19:19
  crazy.
• 19:21
  Anywho.
• 19:21
  Yeah,
• 19:22
  but
• 19:22
  who
• 19:22
  actually
• 19:23
  do
• 19:23
  we
• 19:23
  ask
• 19:24
  to
• 19:24
  make
• 19:25
  these
• 19:25
  decisions?
• 19:26
  In
• 19:26
  North
• 19:27
  America,
• 19:28
  the
• 19:29
  main
• 19:30
  taxonomic
• 19:30
  committee
• 19:31
  for
• 19:31
  birds
• 19:31
  is
• 19:31
  called
• 19:32
  the
• 19:32
  North
• 19:32
  American
• 19:32
  Classification
• 19:33
  Committee.
• 19:34
  Yeah.
• 19:35
  And
• 19:36
  they
• 19:36
  have,
• 19:37
  I
• 19:38
  think
• 19:38
  like
• 19:38
  12ish
• 19:39
  members.
• 19:39
  I
• 19:39
  think
• 19:39
  it's.
• 19:40
  It
• 19:40
  varies.
• 19:41
  And
• 19:42
  proposals
• 19:42
  are
• 19:42
  submitted
• 19:43
  by
• 19:43
  committee
• 19:44
  members
• 19:44
  and
• 19:44
  other
• 19:45
  scientists
• 19:46
  presenting
• 19:47
  evidence
• 19:47
  to
• 19:47
  whether
• 19:48
  to
• 19:48
  split
• 19:48
  or
• 19:49
  lump
• 19:49
  a
• 19:49
  species.
• 19:50
  And
• 19:50
  then
• 19:51
  they
• 19:51
  discuss
• 19:52
  it,
• 19:52
  vote
• 19:52
  on
• 19:52
  it.
• 19:53
  I
• 19:54
  think
• 19:54
  there
• 19:54
  needs
• 19:54
  to
• 19:54
  be
• 19:54
  like
• 19:54
  a,
• 19:55
  for
• 19:55
  some
• 19:55
  change
• 19:56
  to
• 19:57
  the
• 19:57
  Status
• 19:57
  quo.
• 19:57
  There
• 19:58
  needs
• 19:58
  to
• 19:58
  be
• 19:58
  like
• 19:58
  a
• 19:58
  two
• 19:58
  thirds
• 20:01
  vote
• 20:01
  to
• 20:01
  pass
• 20:03
  and
• 20:04
  they
• 20:05
  make
• 20:05
  the
• 20:05
  decision.
• 20:05
  And
• 20:06
  honestly,
• 20:07
  I
• 20:07
  mean,
• 20:07
  you've
• 20:08
  probably
• 20:08
  disagreed
• 20:09
  with
• 20:09
  some
• 20:09
  of
• 20:09
  their
• 20:09
  decisions.
• 20:10
  I've
• 20:10
  disagreed
• 20:11
  with
• 20:11
  some
• 20:11
  of
• 20:11
  their
• 20:11
  decisions
• 20:12
  because
• 20:12
  the
• 20:12
  other
• 20:12
  side
• 20:12
  of
• 20:12
  the
• 20:12
  coin,
• 20:13
  like
• 20:13
  herpetologists
• 20:14
  and
• 20:15
  folks
• 20:15
  who
• 20:15
  study,
• 20:15
  like
• 20:15
  snakes
• 20:16
  and
• 20:16
  lizards
• 20:16
  and
• 20:16
  things,
• 20:17
  it's
• 20:17
  the
• 20:17
  Wild
• 20:18
  west.
• 20:18
  There's
• 20:18
  no
• 20:18
  committee,
• 20:19
  so
• 20:19
  anyone
• 20:19
  in
• 20:19
  any
• 20:20
  paper
• 20:20
  can
• 20:20
  write
• 20:21
  something
• 20:21
  and,
• 20:21
  oh,
• 20:22
  I
• 20:22
  found
• 20:22
  some
• 20:22
  distinct
• 20:23
  population.
• 20:23
  We're
• 20:24
  going
• 20:24
  to
• 20:24
  call
• 20:24
  it
• 20:24
  a
• 20:24
  new
• 20:24
  species.
• 20:25
  And
• 20:26
  so
• 20:26
  it
• 20:27
  means
• 20:27
  the
• 20:28
  benefit
• 20:28
  of
• 20:29
  having
• 20:31
  a
• 20:31
  standard
• 20:33
  to
• 20:33
  work
• 20:33
  from
• 20:34
  is
• 20:34
  gone.
• 20:35
  Yeah,
• 20:35
  we've
• 20:35
  been
• 20:35
  talking
• 20:36
  about
• 20:36
  splits
• 20:36
  and
• 20:37
  lumps
• 20:37
  and
• 20:37
  the
• 20:37
  decisions
• 20:38
  that
• 20:38
  are
• 20:38
  made
• 20:38
  and
• 20:39
  who
• 20:39
  makes
• 20:39
  those
• 20:39
  decisions,
• 20:40
  but
• 20:41
  what
• 20:41
  impact
• 20:41
  do
• 20:41
  those
• 20:41
  have
• 20:42
  on
• 20:42
  conservation?
• 20:43
  And
• 20:43
  what
• 20:44
  are
• 20:44
  your
• 20:44
  thoughts
• 20:44
  on
• 20:44
  the
• 20:45
  way
• 20:45
  these
• 20:45
  decisions
• 20:46
  should
• 20:46
  relate
• 20:46
  to
• 20:46
  conservation?
• 20:47
  Or.
• 20:47
  So,
• 20:47
  for
• 20:48
  example,
• 20:48
  the
• 20:48
  question
• 20:49
  is,
• 20:49
  like,
• 20:49
  if
• 20:49
  golden
• 20:50
  wing
• 20:50
  and
• 20:50
  blue
• 20:50
  winged
• 20:50
  warblers
• 20:51
  were
• 20:51
  lumped.
• 20:52
  Ooh,
• 20:53
  controversial.
• 20:54
  I
• 20:54
  know,
• 20:54
  right?
• 20:54
  So,
• 20:55
  yeah,
• 20:55
  I
• 20:55
  mean,
• 20:55
  I
• 20:55
  have
• 20:55
  been
• 20:56
  approached
• 20:56
  by
• 20:56
  people
• 20:57
  to
• 20:57
  write
• 20:57
  a
• 20:57
  proposal
• 20:58
  to
• 20:58
  lump
• 20:59
  them,
• 20:59
  not
• 21:00
  just
• 21:00
  based
• 21:00
  on
• 21:00
  our
• 21:00
  genetic
• 21:01
  data,
• 21:01
  but
• 21:01
  the
• 21:01
  fact
• 21:01
  that
• 21:01
  they
• 21:01
  hybridize
• 21:02
  extensively.
• 21:03
  The
• 21:03
  laws
• 21:04
  that
• 21:04
  are
• 21:04
  used
• 21:04
  in
• 21:04
  the
• 21:05
  context
• 21:05
  of
• 21:05
  species
• 21:05
  conservation,
• 21:06
  in
• 21:06
  the
• 21:06
  US
• 21:06
  it's
• 21:07
  the
• 21:07
  Endangered
• 21:07
  Species
• 21:07
  Act.
• 21:08
  In
• 21:08
  Canada,
• 21:09
  it's
• 21:09
  the
• 21:09
  Species
• 21:10
  at
• 21:10
  Risk
• 21:10
  act,
• 21:11
  protects
• 21:13
  even
• 21:13
  things
• 21:13
  that
• 21:14
  aren't
• 21:15
  genetically
• 21:15
  distinct,
• 21:16
  that
• 21:16
  are
• 21:16
  distinct
• 21:17
  in
• 21:18
  a
• 21:18
  number
• 21:18
  of
• 21:19
  ways
• 21:20
  that
• 21:20
  aren't
• 21:21
  necessarily
• 21:22
  named
• 21:22
  species.
• 21:23
  In
• 21:23
  reality,
• 21:26
  we're
• 21:27
  trying
• 21:27
  to
• 21:27
  conserve
• 21:28
  diversity,
• 21:31
  and
• 21:31
  it
• 21:31
  doesn't
• 21:31
  necessarily
• 21:32
  need
• 21:32
  to
• 21:33
  be
• 21:33
  at
• 21:33
  the
• 21:33
  species
• 21:34
  level.
• 21:35
  It
• 21:35
  can
• 21:35
  be
• 21:36
  at
• 21:36
  lower
• 21:37
  levels
• 21:38
  as
• 21:38
  long
• 21:39
  as
• 21:39
  it
• 21:40
  passes
• 21:42
  certain
• 21:42
  bars.
• 21:43
  In
• 21:43
  the
• 21:43
  context
• 21:43
  of
• 21:44
  all
• 21:44
  of
• 21:44
  this,
• 21:44
  I
• 21:44
  mean,
• 21:44
  we
• 21:45
  pay
• 21:45
  attention
• 21:45
  to
• 21:46
  the
• 21:46
  research
• 21:46
  being
• 21:46
  done,
• 21:47
  we
• 21:47
  go
• 21:47
  to
• 21:47
  the
• 21:47
  conferences,
• 21:48
  we
• 21:49
  see
• 21:49
  what
• 21:49
  studies
• 21:49
  people
• 21:50
  are
• 21:50
  doing,
• 21:51
  and
• 21:51
  then
• 21:51
  we
• 21:51
  know
• 21:52
  usually
• 21:52
  what's
• 21:52
  being
• 21:53
  proposed
• 21:53
  to
• 21:53
  be
• 21:54
  split
• 21:54
  or
• 21:54
  lumped
• 21:54
  in
• 21:55
  a
• 21:55
  given
• 21:55
  year.
• 21:55
  What's
• 21:57
  to
• 21:57
  you,
• 21:57
  is
• 21:57
  there
• 21:57
  like
• 21:58
  a
• 21:58
  surprising
• 21:58
  split
• 21:59
  or
• 21:59
  rump?
• 22:00
  Split
• 22:01
  or
• 22:01
  rump?
• 22:01
  Yeah.
• 22:03
  To
• 22:03
  you,
• 22:03
  is
• 22:03
  there
• 22:04
  a
• 22:04
  surprising
• 22:04
  split
• 22:05
  or
• 22:05
  lump
• 22:06
  that's
• 22:06
  recently
• 22:06
  happened
• 22:07
  that
• 22:07
  you
• 22:07
  want
• 22:07
  to
• 22:07
  highlight?
• 22:08
  Yeah,
• 22:09
  I
• 22:09
  mean,
• 22:09
  I
• 22:10
  don't
• 22:10
  know
• 22:10
  how
• 22:10
  familiar
• 22:11
  you
• 22:11
  are
• 22:11
  with
• 22:11
  the
• 22:12
  Cassia
• 22:12
  crossbill.
• 22:14
  Yes.
• 22:15
  So
• 22:15
  this
• 22:15
  might
• 22:16
  get
• 22:16
  me
• 22:16
  into
• 22:16
  a
• 22:16
  little
• 22:16
  hot
• 22:17
  water,
• 22:17
  but
• 22:17
  this
• 22:17
  is
• 22:18
  like,
• 22:20
  crossbill's
• 22:21
  amazing
• 22:21
  birds,
• 22:21
  like,
• 22:22
  you
• 22:22
  know,
• 22:23
  cool
• 22:23
  ecology.
• 22:25
  But
• 22:25
  there
• 22:26
  has
• 22:26
  been,
• 22:27
  you
• 22:27
  know,
• 22:27
  research
• 22:28
  on
• 22:29
  certain
• 22:30
  populations
• 22:31
  and
• 22:31
  these
• 22:32
  populations
• 22:32
  differ
• 22:33
  in,
• 22:33
  like,
• 22:33
  the
• 22:34
  call
• 22:34
  notes
• 22:34
  that
• 22:35
  they
• 22:35
  produce.
• 22:36
  Anyway,
• 22:37
  classic
• 22:37
  work
• 22:38
  on
• 22:38
  one
• 22:39
  of
• 22:39
  these,
• 22:40
  work
• 22:40
  by
• 22:40
  Craig
• 22:41
  Bankman
• 22:41
  at
• 22:41
  the
• 22:41
  University
• 22:41
  of
• 22:42
  Wyoming,
• 22:43
  found
• 22:43
  that,
• 22:44
  you
• 22:44
  know,
• 22:44
  it
• 22:44
  did
• 22:44
  all
• 22:45
  this,
• 22:45
  like,
• 22:45
  fantastic
• 22:46
  research
• 22:46
  on
• 22:46
  the
• 22:47
  ecology,
• 22:47
  the
• 22:47
  genetics
• 22:49
  and
• 22:49
  the
• 22:50
  call
• 22:50
  variation
• 22:50
  in
• 22:51
  these
• 22:52
  cross
• 22:52
  bills
• 22:53
  and
• 22:53
  found
• 22:53
  that
• 22:53
  this
• 22:53
  one
• 22:53
  population,
• 22:54
  confined
• 22:54
  to
• 22:54
  like
• 22:55
  70km
• 22:57
  square
• 22:59
  checked
• 23:00
  all
• 23:00
  the
• 23:00
  boxes
• 23:00
  in
• 23:00
  terms
• 23:01
  of
• 23:01
  a
• 23:01
  distinct
• 23:02
  species.
• 23:03
  But,
• 23:04
  like,
• 23:05
  I
• 23:05
  don't
• 23:05
  know.
• 23:09
  I
• 23:09
  was
• 23:09
  asking
• 23:09
  you
• 23:09
  before.
• 23:10
  You've
• 23:10
  watched
• 23:11
  the
• 23:11
  Bear,
• 23:11
  right?
• 23:12
  Yeah,
• 23:12
  seasons
• 23:13
  one
• 23:13
  and
• 23:13
  two,
• 23:14
  season
• 23:14
  three.
• 23:14
  I
• 23:14
  haven't
• 23:15
  quite
• 23:15
  got
• 23:15
  through.
• 23:16
  Would
• 23:16
  you
• 23:16
  describe
• 23:16
  it
• 23:16
  as
• 23:17
  a
• 23:17
  comedy?
• 23:20
  I
• 23:21
  would
• 23:21
  not.
• 23:21
  And
• 23:21
  was
• 23:22
  shocked
• 23:22
  when
• 23:22
  it
• 23:22
  was
• 23:23
  listed
• 23:23
  as
• 23:23
  a
• 23:23
  comedy
• 23:24
  at
• 23:24
  the
• 23:25
  Emmys.
• 23:25
  I
• 23:26
  remembered
• 23:26
  the
• 23:27
  holiday
• 23:27
  episode
• 23:27
  and
• 23:28
  thought
• 23:28
  having
• 23:29
  to
• 23:29
  pause
• 23:29
  that
• 23:30
  because
• 23:30
  I
• 23:30
  was
• 23:30
  so
• 23:30
  anxious,
• 23:31
  like,
• 23:31
  eight
• 23:31
  times
• 23:32
  is
• 23:32
  not
• 23:32
  funny
• 23:32
  to
• 23:33
  me.
• 23:33
  Exactly.
• 23:33
  Yeah.
• 23:34
  And
• 23:34
  so
• 23:35
  I
• 23:35
  don't
• 23:35
  know
• 23:35
  the
• 23:36
  process
• 23:36
  of
• 23:36
  the
• 23:36
  Emmys
• 23:37
  and
• 23:37
  things,
• 23:37
  but
• 23:38
  they
• 23:38
  checked
• 23:39
  all
• 23:39
  the
• 23:39
  boxes,
• 23:39
  and
• 23:39
  they
• 23:40
  got
• 23:40
  it
• 23:41
  in
• 23:42
  as
• 23:42
  a
• 23:43
  comedy,
• 23:43
  won
• 23:43
  all
• 23:44
  the
• 23:44
  awards,
• 23:44
  and
• 23:45
  no
• 23:45
  one
• 23:45
  would
• 23:46
  take
• 23:46
  anything
• 23:46
  away
• 23:47
  from
• 23:47
  all
• 23:47
  the
• 23:47
  amazing.
• 23:49
  Just
• 23:49
  a
• 23:49
  fantastic
• 23:50
  show.
• 23:50
  It's
• 23:51
  a
• 23:51
  great
• 23:51
  show,
• 23:51
  but
• 23:51
  it's
• 23:51
  not
• 23:51
  a
• 23:52
  comedy.
• 23:53
  And
• 23:53
  so
• 23:53
  I
• 23:53
  feel
• 23:53
  like
• 23:54
  the
• 23:54
  Cassia
• 23:54
  crossbow
• 23:55
  is
• 23:55
  kind
• 23:55
  of
• 23:55
  like
• 23:55
  the
• 23:55
  bear.
• 23:57
  It's
• 23:57
  like,
• 23:57
  it
• 23:58
  checks
• 23:58
  all
• 23:58
  the
• 23:58
  boxes.
• 23:59
  Amazing
• 23:59
  work.
• 23:59
  No
• 23:59
  one
• 23:59
  would
• 24:00
  take
• 24:00
  that
• 24:00
  away
• 24:00
  from.
• 24:00
  But
• 24:01
  it's
• 24:01
  like
• 24:01
  the
• 24:02
  gut
• 24:02
  check,
• 24:03
  is
• 24:03
  this
• 24:03
  a
• 24:03
  species?
• 24:05
  I
• 24:05
  know.
• 24:05
  I'm
• 24:06
  not
• 24:06
  totally
• 24:07
  convinced
• 24:07
  by
• 24:07
  that.
• 24:08
  I'm
• 24:08
  not
• 24:08
  either.
• 24:09
  So,
• 24:10
  Dave,
• 24:10
  we've
• 24:11
  reached
• 24:11
  the
• 24:11
  part
• 24:11
  of
• 24:11
  the
• 24:11
  show
• 24:12
  that
• 24:12
  we
• 24:12
  call
• 24:12
  that's
• 24:13
  BS
• 24:14
  or
• 24:14
  that's
• 24:15
  bird
• 24:15
  stuff,
• 24:16
  where
• 24:17
  our
• 24:17
  guest.
• 24:18
  Family
• 24:19
  friendly.
• 24:19
  Yeah,
• 24:20
  very
• 24:20
  family
• 24:20
  friendly.
• 24:21
  So
• 24:22
  you
• 24:22
  get
• 24:22
  to
• 24:22
  debunk
• 24:23
  a
• 24:23
  myth
• 24:23
  about
• 24:24
  birds
• 24:24
  that
• 24:24
  you
• 24:24
  think
• 24:25
  we
• 24:25
  should
• 24:25
  all
• 24:25
  know.
• 24:26
  I
• 24:26
  mean,
• 24:26
  it's
• 24:27
  not
• 24:27
  BS
• 24:28
  per
• 24:28
  se,
• 24:29
  but
• 24:29
  the.
• 24:30
  It's
• 24:30
  a
• 24:31
  very
• 24:31
  Canadian
• 24:31
  way
• 24:31
  to
• 24:31
  start
• 24:31
  things.
• 24:32
  Yeah,
• 24:32
  I
• 24:32
  know,
• 24:32
  right?
• 24:32
  Fair
• 24:33
  enough.
• 24:34
  You
• 24:34
  know,
• 24:34
  the
• 24:35
  fact
• 24:35
  that
• 24:35
  the.
• 24:36
  The
• 24:36
  hybrids
• 24:37
  between.
• 24:37
  I
• 24:37
  mean,
• 24:37
  we
• 24:38
  already
• 24:38
  kind
• 24:38
  of
• 24:38
  touched
• 24:38
  on
• 24:38
  this,
• 24:38
  but
• 24:39
  the
• 24:39
  hybrids
• 24:39
  between
• 24:39
  golden
• 24:40
  winged
• 24:40
  and
• 24:40
  blue
• 24:40
  winged
• 24:41
  warblers,
• 24:42
  which
• 24:42
  are
• 24:43
  named
• 24:44
  as,
• 24:44
  you
• 24:45
  know,
• 24:45
  what
• 24:46
  looks
• 24:46
  like
• 24:46
  a
• 24:46
  distinct
• 24:47
  species.
• 24:48
  They
• 24:48
  are
• 24:49
  not
• 24:49
  distinct
• 24:50
  species.
• 24:50
  Totally.
• 24:51
  Yeah.
• 24:52
  That's
• 24:52
  why
• 24:52
  you're
• 24:52
  doing
• 24:52
  the
• 24:52
  podcast,
• 24:53
  right?
• 24:53
  Yeah.
• 24:53
  To
• 24:54
  bring
• 24:54
  these.
• 24:54
  There
• 24:54
  you
• 24:54
  go.
• 24:55
  That's
• 24:55
  what
• 24:55
  we're
• 24:55
  here.
• 24:55
  There
• 24:56
  you
• 24:56
  go.
• 24:56
  It's
• 24:56
  the
• 24:57
  reason.
• 24:57
  But,
• 24:58
  you
• 24:58
  know,
• 24:58
  I
• 24:58
  remember
• 24:58
  as
• 24:59
  a
• 24:59
  kid,
• 24:59
  like,
• 24:59
  I
• 24:59
  would
• 24:59
  just
• 25:00
  read
• 25:00
  field
• 25:00
  guides,
• 25:01
  and
• 25:01
  I
• 25:01
  would
• 25:02
  think
• 25:02
  about
• 25:03
  nature
• 25:03
  in
• 25:03
  these
• 25:04
  very
• 25:04
  categorical
• 25:05
  ways.
• 25:05
  And
• 25:05
  it
• 25:05
  wasn't
• 25:06
  until,
• 25:06
  like,
• 25:06
  I
• 25:07
  really
• 25:07
  started
• 25:07
  learning
• 25:07
  about
• 25:07
  natural
• 25:08
  history
• 25:08
  and
• 25:09
  getting
• 25:09
  out
• 25:09
  in
• 25:09
  the
• 25:09
  field
• 25:10
  and
• 25:10
  birding
• 25:11
  that
• 25:11
  I
• 25:11
  realized,
• 25:12
  oh,
• 25:12
  man,
• 25:12
  there's
• 25:12
  so
• 25:13
  much
• 25:13
  more
• 25:13
  complexity,
• 25:13
  and
• 25:14
  it's
• 25:14
  actually
• 25:14
  cooler
• 25:15
  than
• 25:15
  just,
• 25:16
  like,
• 25:16
  these
• 25:16
  six
• 25:17
  birds.
• 25:17
  It's
• 25:17
  these
• 25:17
  six
• 25:18
  birds
• 25:18
  plus
• 25:19
  five
• 25:19
  others
• 25:19
  that
• 25:19
  these
• 25:20
  three
• 25:20
  could
• 25:20
  make.
• 25:21
  And
• 25:21
  that's
• 25:22
  all
• 25:22
  very,
• 25:22
  very
• 25:22
  interesting.
• 25:23
  So.
• 25:23
  Yeah,
• 25:24
  I
• 25:24
  totally
• 25:24
  agree
• 25:24
  with
• 25:24
  you.
• 25:25
  Well,
• 25:25
  Dave,
• 25:25
  it's
• 25:26
  been
• 25:26
  awesome
• 25:26
  to
• 25:26
  get.
• 25:26
  To
• 25:27
  chat
• 25:27
  with
• 25:27
  you.
• 25:27
  I
• 25:27
  wish
• 25:27
  we
• 25:28
  were
• 25:28
  still
• 25:28
  working
• 25:29
  in
• 25:29
  the
• 25:29
  same
• 25:29
  place,
• 25:30
  just
• 25:30
  grabbing
• 25:30
  pizza
• 25:31
  at
• 25:31
  lunch
• 25:31
  and
• 25:31
  chatting
• 25:32
  about
• 25:32
  all
• 25:32
  these
• 25:32
  weird,
• 25:33
  weird
• 25:33
  birds
• 25:33
  that
• 25:33
  we
• 25:34
  study.
• 25:34
  But
• 25:34
  thanks
• 25:34
  so
• 25:34
  much
• 25:35
  for
• 25:35
  joining
• 25:36
  us
• 25:36
  on
• 25:36
  the
• 25:36
  podcast.
• 25:37
  Yeah,
• 25:38
  this
• 25:38
  was
• 25:38
  great.
• 25:39
  Yeah,
• 25:39
  there's
• 25:39
  an
• 25:40
  endless
• 25:40
  story
• 25:40
  of
• 25:40
  birds
• 25:41
  to
• 25:41
  be
• 25:41
  told,
• 25:41
  and
• 25:42
  no
• 25:42
  one
• 25:42
  better
• 25:42
  to
• 25:42
  tell
• 25:43
  it
• 25:43
  than
• 25:43
  Scott
• 25:43
  Taylor.
• 25:44
  Oh,
• 25:45
  man,
• 25:45
  that's
• 25:45
  very
• 25:45
  kind.
• 25:46
  Well,
• 25:47
  happy
• 25:47
  to
• 25:47
  have
• 25:47
  you
• 25:47
  with
• 25:48
  me
• 25:48
  on
• 25:48
  the
• 25:48
  journey
• 25:48
  today.
• 25:49
  Same.
• 25:52
  Okay,
• 25:52
  so
• 25:53
  birds
• 25:53
  are
• 25:53
  dinosaurs,
• 25:54
  and
• 25:54
  around
• 25:54
  here,
• 25:54
  we
• 25:54
  like
• 25:55
  our
• 25:55
  snacks.
• 25:55
  So
• 25:56
  we
• 25:56
  end
• 25:56
  each
• 25:56
  of
• 25:56
  our
• 25:56
  episodes
• 25:57
  with
• 25:57
  a
• 25:57
  dinosaur
• 25:57
  nugget.
• 25:58
  Today's
• 25:59
  nugget.
• 26:00
  When
• 26:00
  it
• 26:00
  comes
• 26:00
  to
• 26:00
  your
• 26:00
  life
• 26:01
  list
• 26:01
  expanding
• 26:01
  or
• 26:02
  contracting,
• 26:02
  the
• 26:03
  only
• 26:03
  real
• 26:03
  hero
• 26:03
  or
• 26:04
  villain
• 26:04
  in
• 26:04
  the
• 26:04
  story
• 26:05
  is
• 26:05
  evidence
• 26:06
  that
• 26:06
  may
• 26:06
  come
• 26:07
  in
• 26:07
  the
• 26:07
  form
• 26:07
  of.
• 26:07
  DNA,
• 26:08
  song
• 26:09
  or
• 26:09
  plumage,
• 26:10
  usually
• 26:10
  a
• 26:10
  combination.
• 26:11
  And
• 26:12
  when
• 26:12
  a
• 26:12
  bird
• 26:12
  falls
• 26:13
  off
• 26:13
  your.
• 26:13
  Life
• 26:13
  list,
• 26:14
  it
• 26:14
  probably
• 26:14
  means
• 26:15
  something
• 26:15
  really
• 26:15
  interesting
• 26:16
  is
• 26:16
  happening,
• 26:17
  something
• 26:17
  that's
• 26:17
  confused
• 26:18
  folks.
• 26:18
  For
• 26:18
  a
• 26:19
  while,
• 26:19
  sometimes
• 26:19
  centuries.
• 26:20
  Maybe
• 26:21
  that's
• 26:21
  hybridization
• 26:22
  or,
• 26:23
  like,
• 26:23
  for
• 26:23
  the
• 26:23
  red
• 26:23
  poles.
• 26:24
  Maybe
• 26:24
  it's
• 26:25
  the
• 26:25
  discovery
• 26:25
  of
• 26:25
  a
• 26:25
  really
• 26:26
  unique
• 26:26
  genetic
• 26:27
  variant.
• 26:28
  That's
• 26:28
  a
• 26:28
  wrap
• 26:28
  on
• 26:29
  our
• 26:29
  episode.
• 26:29
  Okay,
• 26:30
  but
• 26:30
  why
• 26:30
  did
• 26:30
  my
• 26:31
  life
• 26:31
  list
• 26:31
  just
• 26:31
  shrink?
• 26:32
  If
• 26:32
  you
• 26:32
  liked
• 26:32
  this
• 26:33
  episode,
• 26:33
  leave
• 26:33
  a.
• 26:33
  Comment
• 26:34
  like
• 26:34
  and
• 26:34
  subscribe,
• 26:35
  and
• 26:35
  we'll
• 26:35
  see
• 26:35
  you
• 26:35
  next
• 26:35
  time.
• 26:36
  Bye.
• 26:42
  Okay,
• 26:43
  but
• 26:43
  Birds
• 26:44
  is
• 26:44
  hosted
• 26:44
  by
• 26:44
  Scott
• 26:45
  Taylor
• 26:45
  with
• 26:46
  production
• 26:46
  and
• 26:46
  creative
• 26:47
  by
• 26:47
  Zach
• 26:47
  Karl.