Latest / WoT Spoilers / By Grace and Banners Fallen (Talmanes) - A Memory of Light prologue pt1 - EP591

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By Grace and Banners Fallen (Talmanes) - A Memory of Light prologue pt1 - EP591 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time spoilers podcast. Shall we
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: talk about hot Tomali's.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Hot Tomali's He does get rather hot in this section.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Tammain's tal manas. However you want to say it tal manas.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: I want to say it till honus. That's my preferred pronunciation.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Tal mayonnaise, tall mayonnaise, tall mayonnaise.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: One of that's short mayonnaise, only the tall stuff. Yeah.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: So we are starting a Memory of Light today.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, the final book in the Wheel of Time. We've
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: done the prologue, We've done New Seasons.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: That's a grocery store.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Did you do the quick edit on the final episode
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: and get that out? Yep?
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: I did. It will be coming out on two days
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: from now. Yeah, and then we'll be off for a
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: week and then this episode will come out.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: What did I call it? Did I call it something
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: of the new Spring doctor pants?
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: You called it New Seasons store. That's a hippie store,
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Take your money store.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's that's a new paycheck is what that?
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Exactly. I was like, what's the what's the name
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: for that one? I know it's a whole wallet for
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: whole food.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: The whole wallet, New Paycheck.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this episode will be coming out on the thirteenth
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: of August.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I know it's it's kind of amazing to
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: get this far, to be on the last book and
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: be like, well, we've planned out the last book in
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: the series and.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: It will be a journey. We'll change it up, but uh,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: you're starting with the prologue being split into three parts
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: because it's a long prologue, because it's a prologue and
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: it has to be and there was so many povs
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: in it that we were like, how are we going
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: to do this? How are we going to do this?
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: And Seth went and spreadsheeted it out and realized that
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: fully half of it, every other POV is tom Honis.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: So we're going to start with all of tim Honus's
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: povs in this episode. Do that is going to be
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: tum Honis for the prologue, and then we will do
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: two more episodes where we do three and three povs
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: of everything that is peppered in between tom Hois in
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: this section that we're going to do today. So in
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: three weeks we will have finished the prologue, as is
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: our usual style.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: And I will say that you know that this book
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: is going to switch povs much faster than the other books.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: We are in the sander Lanche, We're going to get
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: like a mini sander Lanche in this you know prologue.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: The Tealmana's section of this prologue is like a little
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: mini novella that Sanderson wrote and stuck in the beginning
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: of this book, And he created this character loosely based
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: on the pre existing time. But this is almost a
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: new character with the new story from start to finish,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: where he sort of tells a little little novella is
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: what I would call it.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like he set himself up to expand
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: taman Is into a full character last book. He was
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: really doing a lot of work to be like, okay,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: all right, I'm gonna make this this guy cool. And
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: then here is like the unfolding out of the box
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: moment where it's like, aha, all of that folding and
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: packing and crafting is going to pay off. Here is
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: tom On is expanding and inhabiting the space that Sanderson
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: was telling us he wanted to make.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: And right now I've also gone through the last battle
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: for those of you who are curious, and essentially what
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at is how many povs are we doing
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: in each chapter? And it turns out, you know, if
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: you can mind too, there's about three on average in
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: this book, there's about three to four povs per chapter,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: and we're mostly going to be doing two chapters per episode,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: so that's about six to eight povs per episode. So
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: when I can tee you that into the Last Battle,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: and I pretty much continued doing six to eight povs
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: per episode of the Last Battle, and I think that
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: takes us to about eight to ten episodes, depending on
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: how quickly we get through them. So that tells you
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: that there are sixty four to seventy povs in the
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: chapter the Last Battle.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, even with repeats, that's too many.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so, and there was no I was not
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: going to go through and try and do one character
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: at a time, like we're going to do it in order.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: We're just gonna, you know, chunk it up. And this
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: is the plan. That does not mean we will stick
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: to the plan.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Right right, right, Yeah, that is the plan for something
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: we're not going to get to for like six.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Months, right and then when we hit it, who knows. Yeah,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I thought this, I feel like is it
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: works pretty well because we're just telling all of Tamanus's
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: story really quick, and then we can go back and
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: do the other ones.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, because we got to keep ourselves engaged and
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: moving forward and also not making this harder and more
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: confusing than it needs to be. But I today, well
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: yesterday and today, I have done all of my note
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: taking for the entire prologue, and I think that this
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: breakdown makes a lot of sense because again, prologue, right,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: just the way prologs work, like this way of compressing it. Sure,
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I feel like starting with this blast
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: of Telmanis and then going into the more like flickery
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: POV thing is just it made me feel good. So
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna assume our audience is gonna like it.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, I guess I should read us in Oh, I
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: got it all right.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, go to page two because that's where he actually starts.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: And this chapter is called by Grace and Banner's Fallen,
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: which is a fantastic title. We get that line in
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: this first chunk of Telmanus's POV. It's just all so glorious.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Take it away.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: We should really also before we even start that we
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: have to do the quote the prophecy in the beginning,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: we skipped right over that.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, we have to go back and do that.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: And the shadow fell upon the land, and the world
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: the eight corners of the world. The moon was as blood,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: and the sun was as ashes, the seas boiled, and
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: but memory lost, and one memory above all others of
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: him who brought the shadow and the breaking of the world,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: and him they named the Dragon. From alith Nintarin allah Khmora,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: The Breaking of the World, author unknown, the Fourth Age.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Do you think this is referring to the last battle
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: or the breaking of the world, because I feel like
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: this is of the breaking of the world.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it does give me a breaking of the world vibe.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: I feel like the living envied to the dead is
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: a lion that has existed in other quotes that are
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: specifically referencing the breaking of the world.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: And also they're naming the dragon, not the dragon reborn.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and also you know it is titled the Breaking
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: of the World, but well.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I guess I should. It's referring back to the old
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: breaking of the world. We're not talking about the last
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: part because because in context you'd be like, oh, are
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: we talking about like the new the last Battle? Is
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: this what's going to happen in this book? Yeah?
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know for sure. It's like you had me
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: in the first half. It's one of those like this
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: is clearly about what's happening in this book. And then yeah,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: it turns out that they're talking about three thousand years ago,
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: and it's just like the wayel of the time turns
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: and when memory fades to myths and all that jazz.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: This is the memory, right, right, this is the memory
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: that's come back. This is the memory in Rand's.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Head all but memory lost.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is this is the memory because Rand is
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: the one who has this memory of the person who
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: broke the world.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and him they named Dragon very circular.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you want to take it literally, what's
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: what is this memory of of the light that lewis
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: theren called down upon himself to kill himself. Right, Rand
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: has that memory of that light that we saw in
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: the prologue. Right, we're coming back around to that moment
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: of Lewis theren calling down the one power upon himself.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Not bailfire, I don't believe.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: Not bailfire, No, just plasma. That's my canon.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: It's panasma that makes sense to me, Like he's just
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: creating a column of like I mean, the amount of
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: power it takes to drill down to the mantle, right, insane.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like vaporizes the air such that there's these
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: like massive winds rushing in to fill the void, like
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: plasma does that. Plasma is what rips the very molecules
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: apart down to the constituent atomic particles. Like yeah. Oh,
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: and actually we have to skip all the way forward
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: to page eight before we get to Tom Honus, not
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: page two second.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: POV because we're skipping Bayard the White Cloaks or not
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: the White Cloaks, the rebels.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Jared Sarand's forces that get all their metal take anyway,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: we're not getting to him until next week.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think bailfire is plasma. Bailfire is its own
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: unique thing that changes the nature of the pattern.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Agreed. Agreed, Plasma is the nearest thing we have to
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: bail fire in the real world. But bailfire is like
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: plasma squared and.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: In a lot of ways, lightning is plasma, right, not
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, And scientifically lightning is plasma, right,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: so you know, we know they can call down lightning
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: and think of that just in a giant column form.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: He did, more of like a sun coated sort of plasma,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: less like any more fire and sun stuff. But yeah,
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: and then bailfire is just like even more so at
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: like a magical level.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: My favorite little fact that I've been hearing lately on
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: the internet is, you know, the Sun's not on fire.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: No, absolutely not. There's no oxygen in space, no space,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: No one can burn you. You need oxygen for that.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: It is a ball of plasma plasma. It's a ball
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: of nuclear radiation and dust that's getting you know, smashed
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: together by its own weight. It's not fire anyway. Tall mayonnaise,
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: all right.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Tall mayonnaise. Thalmenes tugged on Selfar's reins, making the horse
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: dance and shake his head. The roane seemed eager, perhaps
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: so far since his master's anxious mood. The night air
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: was thick with smoke, smoke and screams. Talmanus marched the
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: band alongside a road clogged with refugees smudged with soot.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: They moved like flotsam in a muddy river. The men
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: of the band eyed the refugees with worry. Steady, Talmana
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: shouted to them, we can't sprint all the way to Camwan.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Steady he marched the men as quickly as he dared,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Nearly at a jog, their armor clanked. Elaine had taken
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: half the band with her to the field of Marillre,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: including ed Stein and most of the cavalry. Perhaps she
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: had anticipated needing to withdraw quickly. Well, Tamanus wouldn't have
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: much use for the cavalry in the streets, which were
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: no doubt as clogged as this roadway so far. Snorted
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: and shook his head. They were close now. The city
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: walls just ahead, black in the night, held an angry light.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: It was as if the city we're a fire pit.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: By Grays and banners fallen.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: That's the next line, by Grace's banners. Yeah, by Grayson,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: banners fallen. Tom Honest thought with a shiver. It's like
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: just a curse.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: It's so beautiful. It's a really pretty way of saying fubar. Right,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: It's just we're so fucked. We're so fucked, but it's
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: a pretty way of saying it. But yeah, this is
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: you know, we saw him last with Oliver at the
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: end of the last book, looking at Camelin and seeing
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: an unnerving amount of red glow from the fact that
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: the city was starting to go up in flames. Now
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: we're picking up as they finished their approach from the
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: camp to the city, and the city is on fire
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: and disgorging refugees, and their goal is to fight their
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: way inside to get to the dragons. It's like hell
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: on Earth right out the gate right to start, right
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: at the very beginning of all this, they are being
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: asked to walk into, you know, like the civil equivalent
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: of a volcano. Right, But you know, the dragons are
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: absolutely critical war technology. If the Dark friends, if the
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Shadow gets them, that's worse than losing their functionality in
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: the fight against the Shadow. Right, there's a twofold thing here.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: If we can't retrieve them, at least we can destroy them.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: This is a very desperate mission.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: And he's looking at the refugee saying time he'd spent
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: with Matt made him wish there was more he could
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: offer these people that feels very Sanderson to me. That
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: feels very tell and not show right, because Jordan would
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: have him give the refugee some money, or grab a
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: kid and pull them up on the back of the horse,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: or you know, do something, Whereas again I just feel
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: like Sanderson's like, oh, yeah, no, he wants to help people.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: He's changed now that he's hanging out with Matt. He's
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: a better person. And let me tell you that he's
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: a better person.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: He literally says it was downright strange the effect matrim
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Cosin had on a person. Tamn has looked at common
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: folk in a very different light now, And I'm like, yeah,
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: those two sentences and some other ones. I'm like, one
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: of those sentences.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Not all five, yes, right, right, because.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: I get I like the idea that Tom Manius has
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: changed in response to being around Matt, the taver in
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: nature of it, Matt's general charisma, Like, the idea that
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Tommanius has changed is so believable to me, rather than
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: that he's still the same person he always was. But yeah,
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: maybe be like, you know what, maybe my horse is
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: not going to do me much good in here. I'll
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: give it to this family which has you know, like
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Grandma's and babies in it or whatever, like that would
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: be the way to show that instead of using five
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: sentences to reiterate the point.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: And then at the end of the thing he's like, oh,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: I pointed the cannons at the refugees and they ducked
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: in time.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Like that's well, things are very desperate by then. He
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: is drunk and dying at that point.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but still like that's that's how he shows his
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: regard for the people is like dark.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Well, also at that point him and a Luda were
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: actively planning to set off the dragons in such a
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: way that it would kill the refugees. Anyhow, he's gone
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: for I'm definitely going to kill you too. You have
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: a chance to duck. So really it's an upgrade at
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: that point, Jesus Like, it's not a good time. He's
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: not going into a good situation.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: So it's like instead of telling, instead of showing, Sanderson,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: will tell, tell, tell, tell, tell, show you the opposite.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's why we suspect people get through this book
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: at a different pace than a Jordan book, aside from
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: how long we're going to spend bitching about it, which
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: It's like we'll make up the time, don't worry. No,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: But the thing is no, but I'm complaining about that now.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: But then the next note I have is how much
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: I just really love the action packed scene and how
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: well it's written, and how much I really enjoy, you know,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: the fight that Tealmnus goes through, you know, and so like,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: there's things about this book that I'm really happy that
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Sanderson did. We got a lot of fight action scenes
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: that are very visual and very visceral in a way
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: that I do think made that was a way to
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: tell the end of the story that made people happy
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: because they got to feel like they saw the last battle.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: And I think that was so important to finish these
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: books and to show people the last battle and how
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: that happens and the fight and like, there's not very
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: many authors who I think could have pulled that off
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: as well as Anderson did. Jordan could have, Yes, obviously,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: That's why I said not many.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, for sure. It's god. His action
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: seems are good. The visuals are so so visceral. His
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: characters are just a little ham fisted.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but sometimes the character development, Yeah, sometimes they just
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: tell you what they're thinking and it's just very obvious
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: that that's what they're thinking.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: So basically, what's happening here that is relevant is this
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: whole concept of the mercenaries. Yeah, there's a bunch of
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: mercenaries sitting around with their thumbs up their butts, going,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: we don't have orders, so we're going to just stand
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: here and wait for someone to tell us what to do.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: And you know, Tomnius makes them a really good off,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: but they still they need someone to come by and
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: kind of kick him in the pants. He sort of
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: has to inhabit that Matt Coffin Teverein thing of getting
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: people to move and to step into the pattern instead
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: of just being on the sidelines because you know, no
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: one's told them that they're paid to do this yet.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: And sort of a big overarching theme is getting the
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: refugees out of the city. Right, we even see here
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: the city's going to become a death trap soon. There
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: aren't enough ways out, right, And of course he has
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: to make his own way out with the cannons at
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: the end, right, But that's sort of the foreshadowing here
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: to say, we don't have a good way out, and
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: so a big part of what he's trying to do.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: He is rescue the cannons, but also secure the gate
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: so that refugees and the cannons can get out of
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: the city. And so you know, you know, we'll see
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: the strategy in the next POV.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Right right, Yeah, No, Tomatis tries to leave himself away
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: out and then he realizes he has the key in
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: his hand the whole time. Kind of like Matt, but
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: a bit more destructively.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Right, But they're both keys to get out. Yeah, with
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: exeit keys.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Tomanis do not have a lot of
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: parallels going here. Their backs is against a wall and
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: suddenly they realized they had the key in their hand
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: the whole time.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Now, in this first POV, has he been hit with
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: a Mergerall blade yet? Oh?
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: In the next POV they're actively fighting. Yeah. No, No,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: he does not have the wound yet.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's that's what I thought. This first POV he
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: is not wounded with the Mergerll blade.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: So in this first POV he is still pre wound. Talmanus,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: this is a Telmanus who thinks he's gonna live. This
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: is a Tailmanus who was worried about if he dies.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: When we go to the next POV. He is wrapping
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: up a fight with a group that included Amrderral that
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: nicked him.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just ever so slightly nikered on the side, which
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: again I mean mirroring the Rand side wound, the Jesus wound,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: the you know, God, what's that called the spear of longinitis.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: I believe in ginas longinis. I don't know how you
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: say this, which just sounds very vaginal for some reason, China. Yeah, yeah,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: the spear of lunginas right, And so that that whole like,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: oh my god, the sacrifice being stabbed in the side,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's the whole thing, with the Rand and
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: his wound inside, right, that's very Jesus of him. So
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: whenever I see a wound in the side like that one,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: it's like it's just a place where storytellers can wound
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: you without killing you immediately. Yeah, but you can't amputate, right,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: And if.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: It's too deep, it's gonna be fatal because internal organs
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: are really hard to repair. Just it's hard, but.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Not fatal right away, you know that sort of thing.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can have a nice long, agonizing death stand
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: that takes an unrealistic amount of time.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: For narrative purposes, is he gonna die now?
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: And in tam Honis's case, he got hit with you know,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: one of the blades that's poisoned, right, so he knows
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: it's fatal and he got like the gnat one on
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: the role of how the wounds can go with learned that,
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: like fade, blades have a range of effects. It very
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: much mirrors how the taint takes men who can channel right,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: some of them it takes years. Some of them it
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: happens in just a few weeks. You kind of are
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: seeing a parallel in that un Tilmani's got the shitty version.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Ooh. Theory. Fades, we've discussed this before, right when they
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: created trollocks. Fhades were an accident. Fades we've theorized are
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: the souls of people who with the channelers, right, souls
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: of non channelers when created when you create traalics become trollocks.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Souls of channelers become murdraw. They're influenced by the taint,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: and using the swords kind of externalizes that taint onto
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: other people rather than the fades themselves being affected by it.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, because murdering innocent people doesn't seem like something
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: that would specifically give you that taint, right, Like, it's
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: obviously dark magic that adds evilness to it. But the
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: way that this seems to mirror the taint itself, I
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: like that as like, yeah, the blade is open to
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: your customization for being evil.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Right, right, And we've seen the process, and we see
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: it actually later in these books of how they create
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: the swords.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: We saw it earlier earlier.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: I thought that was when Fayeel was she sees.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: It too, But I think it's like Lord of Chaos
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: in the prologue or something. Demondred goes striding by and
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: sees how that works. I mean, he knows how it works,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: but we get to see how it works through his POV.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, Fayeel does stumble across that space in
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: this book.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Though, Demandred in Chail Ghoul witnessing. Yah, that's right, and
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: he's like, oh, it's pathetic. We've only got like twenty
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: people lined up to die, not thousands, like.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: H yeah, exactly, Never have I seen less than fifty.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: This is ridiculous, yes.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Right, And I gotta say, like to Mona's fighting the
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: trollocks in a group, it makes trollocks scary. Again, they've
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: kind of become like, oh, Randy capitates them left and right,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: like it's you know, it's easy, and you kind of
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: forget how big and threatening they are in the books.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: And again, I think Sanderson did a good job of
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: bringing that threat back in, especially here in the beginning
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: before we see lots and loads of them, right.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Well, because he's taken away Matt with his special ability,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: and he's taken away all channelers, right, this band is
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: back to normal. No super people, no Taveran people, just
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: regular degular people having to fight trollocks. Oh yeah, those
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: are scary. Those are real, real scary.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: If you're just a bunch of Red Shirts, you know.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And so somewhere in this fight, Timonius got hit.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: He's sort of still processing it, but they finished the
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: fight and basically they're pushing the trilocs before.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, he killed that Merginal, right, that's the think
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: important thing, right, So he gets that title later Dreadbane
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: of someone who was able to kill a murdrawl in
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: a one on one fight, So like that is really impressive,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: just like give him his due, Like he got hit,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: but he did kill that Mardral.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And so they've retaken the gate,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: right the trolocks are kind of over send it to
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: get to the gate. So now they at least for
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: now have secured safe passage out of the city. And
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: they've lost maybe one hundred people, which is kind of
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: a lot to lose, but it's also nothing in the
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: face of all this.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Right, It's like, it's a lot to lose on a
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: given day, but it's not a lot to lose when
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: taking a gate in a city that's completely overrun, when
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: fighting trolocks, Like, that's an amazingly low casualty camp.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Right again, because they're working well in a team and
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: a very good group cohesion is exactly it's the band.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Because the band, I mean the band is they're super
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: well at this point, almost a supernaturally talented group of soldiers, right.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Like, particularly as a group. Any one soldier is just
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: a soldier, but their teamwork, their ability to be one
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: cohesive unit that is off the charts.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: And it's because they believe in Matt Coffin.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know he has this thought here, but oh,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Matt's going to be mad I lost people, which would
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: be a great show. Don't tell and then he has
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: to tell as well. They say, Oh, Matt's so soft
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: and kind and it's inspiring. It's like, just to have
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: the internal thought about how Matt's going to be mad
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: at you, that was all we needed. Just Matt's going
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: to be angry at me about that, because that's the
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: kind of thought you have when you know you're gonna
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: die and like small things start to be important. You know,
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: it's like, ah, yeah, Matt's gonna really tear me a
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: new asshole. What I get out of this? You know,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: that's a good thought. But then Matt's so inspiring with
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: how he cares about people. Is like, okay, yeah, we
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: get it. We get it.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: No, And Fouji has a good point that like a
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: generational military leadership, you know, so like we're training you
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: the right way, you're not doing the right I mean,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: I've worked enough corporations to know that leadership makes a
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: huge difference for what you're what you end up doing
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: day to day, and how effective you are.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Standing on the shoulders of giants and not trying to
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: reinvent the wheel is a really good way to actually
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: be innovative and good at your job.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Question here Tamanius wipes trillic blood off the blade because
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: he says it's bad for it. But I didn't. I
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: thought trillic blood was normal. I mean, not that any
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: blood is bad for blades, right, because it can rust
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: it over time. But he makes it sound like murder
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: because my no, no, no, merd draw blood etches the blades, right,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: that's a real problem.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: I thought trollic blood did too.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: I thought trillic blood was just normal, like big blood
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: or bore blood or human blood. You know, I didn't
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: think it.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: I thought shadows spawned blood was a problem. I'm like
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: thinking of why the world is.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe I would love to know a different example of
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: trollic blood being bad for blades, because I really thought
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: that that's what made merdraw blood special, is that it
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: etched the blades and trillic blood didn't. But I could
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: could very well be wrong about that.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like questioning everything I've ever known now because
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I thought it was all shadows bawn, but
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: like I'm just having vague memories of like I have
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: the world era land being like cleaner blades because it's
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: going to be all rusted or whatever. I don't know,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: I'm hmmm, oh or Foojie's pointing out this could have
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: been an oversight and editing the book. Given that he
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: did fight a mergerrawl, he would have had merger all
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: blood to wipe off of his sorts. So maybe like
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: that flipped by should.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Be murder all blood was bad for the blade.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Their blood so this is definitely you know, looking at
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: the Merdrawll wiki, their blood is a sitting and we'll
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: etche steel right for mrdrawl.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't even our blood be a cynic to We're not
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: perfectly neutral, We're not basic.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: I think our blood is pretty I think it's like
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: seven point four pH, but it's pretty goddamn close to neutral.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Our body, our body maintains homeostasis really effectively, no matter
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: what you ingest.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Well, no, I know that. I just our is our
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: our bodies natural pH zero. I just I don't know.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: I kind of assumed, well, it's definitely not zero. I
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: just I kind of thought that we were a little
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: bit off to the side from true neutral.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Let's see, and maybe I'm getting so normal blood pH
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: has a range of seven point three five to seven
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: point four said seven point four.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're just a scoche on the acidic side.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I guess it.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Would be kind of no scoch on the basic side.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: God, damn it. I'm never going to get this right.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: I'm never going to get this.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: God.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: I took a year of chemistry in college and I
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: still can't remember which side of the pH skill goes
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: with's word at least I know I'm wrong. It's it's
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: your other left of it all, you know, totally.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: It's it's you know, when you're on a spectrum, which
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: side you're going towards is you know whatever. That's one
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: of the things like if your blood is anywhere outside
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: that range, you die fast. Like that will kill you,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: super super fast. So the body works really really hard
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: to maintain a homeostasis of seven point.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Four the body broadly, But that doesn't mean our blood
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: is I mean, our stomachs obviously have very strong Oh.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, no our body. No, but our blood.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: So like I was like, where is our blood? Like
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: our blood is one of the things that's at that Okay, okay.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Our blood is seven point four. Yeah.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: See maybe a mergeral blood is like they just have
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: stomach acid running in their veins. Real Bernie.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: I just think of them as you know, the aliens
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: from Alien. You know they acid in their blood? Right? No? Okay,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: our Once again, our pop culture sometimes does not.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: I should have seen Alien. I'm of the right age,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: but damn hippie upbringing where I still squeam out at
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: violence unless it's you know, in the Roman era dungeon
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: color curl. But God, that is hm, that is rough.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: I am white knuckling it through some of those scenes.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Just the wiki on Troks does not say they have
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Asidic blood, and the wikia Marderal says they do. That's
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: not proof, but.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna, yeah, I'm gonna think that that's probably it
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: was supposed to be mergeral blood was being bad for
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: the blood.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: I would agree with that that he should have wiped
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: off martinal blood.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: So tell Monies starts doing the very perfectly normal thing
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: of trying to pack a pipe of tobacc with his
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: second best pipe. He would never take his best pipe
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: into battle.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Which is basically the shoes speech all over again. Eh,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: kind of your best Your best boots are for walking,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: your second best are for taking for doing you know, work?
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or coats, I don't know.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Going into battle, even though I guess the second best
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: boots are for like church and fancy fancy things.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad it doesn't go on for as long
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: as the boots speech. It's more like a single sentence.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: But he's doing that while he talks to the mercenaries.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: It is like, so, I'm dead, You're probably dead. You
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: could be dead in a good way or a bad way.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: It's not a threat, it's just an observation. But here's
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: the task if you want to die in a good
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: way and maybe not die like just so you know, anyway,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna let this pipe and go off and die heroically.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Well, cause it is that like, if we fail and
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: you don't help us, they're gonna murder you. If we
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: succeed and you don't help us, we're gonna murder you.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Right, So it might.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: As well help because you know, yeah, you might die
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: in battle, but if you help us, we have a
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: greater chance of surviving, and then you won't be hung
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: up as a trader at the end.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Right, And also, like you'll probably die if you don't
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: fight back, Like the odds of us saving the world
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: without everyone participating are pretty low, So like you might
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: as well, heade you, Dan bets.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: It's the last fucking battle. The number of people who
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: have to turn like I feel like in the opening
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: scene we also have what you we haven't talked about yet,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: but in the opening POV you have the soldiers saying
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: to their commander, it's the last fucking battle. I don't
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: care what you think anymore. We have to go fight
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: that right the whole Like the Last Battle cuts all
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: ties the bind.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's what Tom Mona says. This is the beginning
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: of the end, the fall of nations and the unification
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: of humankind. That's what we're seeing as people going, Oh,
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: all of this other stuff is made up bullshit. In
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: my head, this is just all random shit we've agreed to.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: The Last Battle is real. It's real. We know what's
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: happening in a way that you know, politics is ambiguous
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: in a way that the Last Battle is not.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: In a lot of ways, to me, the Last Battle
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: and climate change have a lot of parallels. It's this
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: existential crisis that's coming in the future that has a
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: threat to our civilization we need to unite against. And
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: the parallels work really well, especially with the corupt people
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: who don't believe in it. Who want to, you know,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: continue to do profit stuff.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so much bigger and more existential than anything
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: that men can make, you know.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Right, right, And it's like it's time for us to
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: pull together. I think the thing about this is it's
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: an immediate threat, and climate change is unfortunately, like a
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: time delayed threat.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Just enough to make it hard to get people to
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: unify until it's too late.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Right, We're in the beginning of the end, but the
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: unification of humankind is not quite here, unfortunately.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: But this is sort of when I want, when I
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: want to talk to people about climate change. You know,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: if you're lucky in the rest of us, salvage salvage
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: this world without you, you'll draw breath long enough to
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: be strung up by your cowardly neck, which they won't be.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: But it's a nice thought though, right, because remember, the
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: world is not dying, it is being killed by people
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: with names and addresses. And this sentiment definitely very easy
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: to apply to the CEO's ruining our world from a
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: thousand different directions.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: And then I was like the George Carlin quote, the
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: planet will be fine, people are fucked. The planet will
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: bounce back eventually. Right, we'll put a bunch of carbon,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: we'll destroy human civilization. We're not going to destroy life forever,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: and eventually we'll re evolve complex life forms. The planet
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: will continue on without people.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's as bad of a mass extinction event
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: as this is. We still got nothing on the Great Dying. Right,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Nothing we're gonna do is going to come close to
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: the Permian extinct mass extinction event. We are sixth. Yes,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: we're not going to be number one, though, I think
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: that's still going to stay with the Great Dying.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, tell moll this is like, this has
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: worked for this band. I'm going to go recruit the
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: rest and basically be the king of the Mercenaries.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, real, briefly, I mean people have been mistaking the
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: band for mercenaries for so long. He might as well
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: inhabit it.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: I mean even then they were like, oh, yeah, you're
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: just another mercenary band, and he's like, no, we're heroes. Sorry,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: deal with it.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: But you know it works for now because they're moving fast.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it takes us to BOV three.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: We skip forward yet again to a old Borderlander remedy
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: for helping with the pain of a merger up blade.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: If you don't just want to off yourself immediately, like
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: pack some herbs on it, choose some other herbs, and
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: also have a flask of brandy. That's the old borderlander,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: old cowboy trick for dealing with a rattlesnake bite.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: It's brandy invented for this chapter. Melton the blister. Yeah, yeah,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: like this. There was never any treatment for it before.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: There was never anything that delayed it. There's never anything
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: effective that put it off. This is totally just like.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: It's athelass, It's King's foil. It's just a weed.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Hmm. What's the one that keeps women from getting pregnant?
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: The hartleaf? The Hartley it's just Hartley, totally effective, no
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: side effects, non processed herb that totally works on hundred
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: percent of the time every time.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, there is a strong argument that there may
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: have been such a plant until it got picked into
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: extinction by the pre imperial Greeks.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: I have heard of that, but we'll.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Never know because every plant that we think could have
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: been it is extinct, so it's gonna be real hard
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: to prove it.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: The only other reference to blister leaf I can find
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: is when Moraine sticks it in Land's clothes in New Spring.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought that familiar.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: We just read about blister leaf.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: It is an old Borderlander trick because it's from the Borderlands.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's one of those like it does have side effects,
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: but like the blistering somehow like helps, like the fact
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: that it's like a skin irritant, like fights with the toxin.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, you'll get a rash, but like not for
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: a couple of days, but then you'll be dead anyhow,
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: so it doesn't matter.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: It's like it's like poison ivy is basically what I
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: thought it was.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. So I'm thinking that that poison ivy somehow
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: the poison of poison ivy like distracts the poison of
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: a mergeral cut and that's why it works fight fire
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: with fire, I guess.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: I literally am now imagining this person being like, yeah,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: we put poison ivy on the wound. It's the only
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: thing that seems to work. And someone's like what the.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: Fuck, Like I'm I mean, someone decided to eat solidified
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: curdled milk one time and now look at us.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Right, you know, Oh my god, So I mentioned I
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: was at a wedding this weekend. I'm eating food for me,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: you know, and one of the plates goes by and
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: I pick up like a caprice. It's like mozzarella and
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: tomato on a stick. And I'm just I'm new to
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: the whole not being able to eat cheese thing, right,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: And so of course I eat like two of them
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: before my wife goes, what are you doing? You can't
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: have cheese, And so I got to spend last night
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: in pain.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Oh dude, that sucks. Caprizi slid rules, fresh tomato, fresh
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: faod fresh mozzarella.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: So good, so good.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Summary.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: But it's another confirmation of the fact that if I
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: eat cheese, I will not have a pleasant night. That sucks.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: So I am learning. I'm learning this is new to
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: me before. In the past, I've been able to get
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: by with. You know, cheese kind of always made me
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: a little stinky. Don't get me wrong. I've always had
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: a bit of a lactose problem, but I've been fine.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: You know, it's just for the people around me.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: I come from the people with the genome I have
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: that enzyme I'm made of. Dairy. Dairy is so good
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: for me. It's so just I need it.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Because it is. It's a mutation of the northern European stock.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: It's arisen a couple of times. The Mussai also have
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: it independently evolved because it's there, you know, like we
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: all digest milk as babies, so it's just a matter
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: of like when enzymes do or don't turn off. So
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: it's evolved a couple of different times.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I think my mostly Italian Spanish stock does
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: not have that.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I am neither Italian nor Spanish. I'm from five
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: there north than that where dairy is king.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I mean my mom is probably from that
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: area and my dad is not. And so then I've
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: been able to do diary for quite some time. But
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: now in my forties, my body is like, no, fuck you,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: that's just not something we're going to process anymore.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: I would like literally throw myself off of a cliff
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: if I couldn't eat cheese, like, I cannot imagine being
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: denied dairy like I need it. I need it.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: I'm okay. I mean for me, it's the yogurt is
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: the loss more than the cheese.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I need all the dairy. Yogurt is
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: so important. So anyway, oh, chat is given us factoids.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Over Here, Doctor Pants says that this is a real thing,
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: this blister leaf plant anemone vescatoria. It is a plant
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: with numerous uses. One of them is a plaster over
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: aching back in the joints. The burning sensation often caused
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: blisters and was considered beneficial for treating arthritis and rheumatism.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: So yeah, sometimes medicinally applied blisters are the appropriate treatment.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: I mean icy cold, right, isn't that basically the same
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: thing where it's like icy hot? Sorry?
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, stimulating blood flow in that kind of way
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: to create that it can help with being like what
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: if we just like moved all of the blood ingredients
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: like white blood cells and moving toxins away, Like what
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: if we just sped all of that up right?
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: And leeches all so you know, there's even like leeches
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: can help drain bad blood out of places, like if
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: you have, you know, spots where it's not draining correctly.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Yep, leeches do have a role.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Maggots are actually really good at eating dead flesh.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Right, Like, maggots are like the best way to deal
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: with necrotis flesh. They don't cut you. They have this
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: really discerning way to just eat the dead parts.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Which is exactly what you want when you want to
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: get rid of the Like. There's been lots of reports
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: of people who are homeless and the reason their whole
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: leg doesn't rot off is because the part that is rotted,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: which is the foot, you know, is infected with maggots
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: and they keep it from spreading, which is horrible. And
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: at the same time you're like, oh, I kind of understand,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: like how that happened from an evolution their standpoint.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Right, And it is something that's used in medicine. It's
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: one of those things where it's like this actually works.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: It's weird, it's a wild, niche thing, but it works
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: so well that it's it's real medicine. It's not strange
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: alternative medicine. It's a real medicine. Yeah. One of the
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: only truly fake ones of those things is a blood
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: letting leeches can have a role. Simply sticking a hole
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: in your arm and letting the blood come out has
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: basically no medical benefits.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: At all without some sort of you know, compartmentalization problem
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: or something where the blood's not draining like we do
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: drain blood out of areas. Yeah, yeah, stuck.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's one of I remember reading this like
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: a year ago that it's one of the oldest, most continuously,
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: most useless medical practices in all of history.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Like blood letting.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it has no demonstrable benefits aside from yeah, when
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: you have like an obvious like overburden, and yet it
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: was like a mainstay of medicine for like two thousand years, unbroken,
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Like there's a reason why the lancet is called that,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: you know, Like it's it's just one of those wild
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: medical anachronisms where it's like so many other things have
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: come and gone, so many other things have managed to
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: fail the test of proto science, and blood letting lasted
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: way way longer and more continuously than you would think.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: But yeah, leeches are actually pretty cool. Leeches have a
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: role to play.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: The next thing that I found, you know, gregor really
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: really almost defensive, is this is Melton saying it's no
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: natural poison. You can't suck it free. Most natural that
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: we I think they've determined that sucking poison out is
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: like doesn't do anything, It just destroys the tissue. Really,
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: my understanding is that that's actually also like urban myth yes,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: like the suction on like they've just like we don't
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: do that anymore. Like suction is really bad for snake bites.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Let me look this up just to make sure.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: I'm not last weird rabbit hole I fell down around
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: snake bites? Was that guy who got bit by as
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: many snakes as he could to try to make like
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: universal antivenom? Real guy, very strange, man, I didn't know
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: that about. I don't live in snake venomous snake country,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: so I don't have to worry about it.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: So I'm looking at snake Bound Snake Bite Foundation dot org.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Well, that sounds completely sketchy.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Sounds completely legit. So just because they seem they have
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: a summary on it. But like we were frequently asked
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: about a first aid for snake bite patients. One of
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: the most common questions is do venom extractors and other
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: commercial snake bite kits actually help? Short answer is no.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Most device about snake bite first aid that is circulated
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: of the past five hundred years is bad information. Things
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: like pocket knives, suction devices, TURNI kit's, gunpowder, vitamin C, freezing, burning,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: and even electrocution have been advocated for snake bite first
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: eight over the years. The only thing these treatments have
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: in common is the high likelihood of making the situation worse.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: Well, there it is, then, that sounds pretty freaking solid.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, basically, you want anti venom asap?
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: The idea that venom could be sucked out of a
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: wound is intuitively satisfying and has been tried in all
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: manner of formulation, starting with the ancient Blackstone of Middle Ages.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: This st blah blah blah. It remains widely used today
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: in many part of Africa, despite numerous studies that have
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: demonstrated to be entirely useless. However, like many things in science,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: just because it sounds good, like a good idea, doesn't
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: mean it actually works.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: Huh. Well, today I learned, and everyone in the audience
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: learned too. It doesn't work.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: They don't. Basically, they remove maybe a tiny minuscule amount
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: of poison, but do an incredible amount of damage to
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: the tissue when doing it, and so the trade off
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: is basically not worth it because it's not extracting enough
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: poison to do make a difference and destroying the tissue
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: in the process of doing it.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: That makes sense, I mean, snakes have been evolving this
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: whole inject poison into the prey for many millions of years.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: It makes sense that it has gotten it's evolved to
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: be better than that, to get into you faster than that.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: And just think about how fast your blood is flowing.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: They inject the venom and your blood flows, right, it's
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: not sitting there at the surface for you to go
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: get a sucge thing, put it on there, suck it
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: out like it's just not happening that way.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Wow. Well, I'm really glad I don't live near venom
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: of snakes, but at least no, I know I don't
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: have to do mouths and mouth with a snake bite
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: if I'm ever in that situation, you just calm down,
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: get your heart rach, just load the fuck down and
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: get some mandy venum anti venom.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Basically call nine one one and get the fuck out
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: to hospitals quick you can is about and keep your
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: heart rate down. That's really what you want to do,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: is make sure you want your blood to pump as
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: little as possible, which sucks because you know that's renalin.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Adrenaline a little banicked. So that line really kind of
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: bothered me, you know, it's not like a real poison
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: you can't. No, it's just like a real poison, you
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: still can't suck it free.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: Hmmm, Okay, good way to correct misinformation in the fantasy.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: It's what we is, what we do, It's what we do,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: all right.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: My next note is him just thinking about basically the plan, right,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: risk getting cut off from the gate because you have
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: to get to the palace, because if you can get
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: to the palace, you can find whatever resistance there is,
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: and maybe even a gateway that goes to the dragons.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: And how much is it because there may be a
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: healer there and he wants to live, right, He doesn't
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: really think about that, but how much is it? Like,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: let's go to the palace first because I might be
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: able to heal this wound in my side.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's pretty bad about hiding that that he really
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: wants to live, but you know, there's a lot of
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: good reasons. It just so happens one of those reasons
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: lines up with his desire to live totally.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: And yeah, he gets handed branding and he's like, I
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: don't think I should drink in combat. Dude's like, trust
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: to me, I think like the next POV. He's like, ah,
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: the Brandy's gone.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, brandy does not last. No, it's like, because you're
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: dealing with so much pain that like drug him up,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: get a little bit of antiseptic anti pain.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you want this man curled in a corner,
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: literally in a fetal position, unable to walk, or do
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: you want him staggering along? Because those are your options
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: right now.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: And maybe the alcohol does slow the spread. It seems
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: like all these things are maybe slightly slowing the spread.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: You know what's really slowing the spread?
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: What plot armor?
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: We need him to last just long enough to either
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: get healed or tragically die in Matt's arms. Like he
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: can't just die in the street. He has to like
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: keep almost being dead but not quite because narrative stuff.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: He's the leader of the Tavern's army, and the Taverian
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: needs the army.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: He's basically taverean understudy. Right now. He can't die. There's
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: too much spare Tavere and drifting around.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: And of course he's healed by none of that, none
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: other than ninive at the end of not at the
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: end of this chapter, but at the.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: End of this longer story that gets when it picks
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: up again. Yeah, because of course it would be Ninive
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: because first of all, intense healing process, but also because
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Ninive and Nineve cares about Match is going to care
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: about one of his best friends, even if he doesn't
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: really know him. Like still, it's of course very appropriate
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: that it not be some randomized to ie.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: And this is the kind of healing where she uses
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: an ongreoll. And it's still like where wears out one
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: of the most powerful ey sid I with one of
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: the most with the powerful onngreol.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Well, because he basically survives against all odds, right, he
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: literally borrows some of Matt's luck to pull this off.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: And I'm assuming that, much like Tam, he loses quite
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: a bit of years off the end of his life.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: I'm assuming he goes gray pretty early. You know, I
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: don't think this man is living to one hundred. I
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: think he's burned a lot of his total life force
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: surviving this. He will get to die in bed, but
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: I think he'll be maybe on the younger side when
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: that happens. So yeah, Melton says, first of all, your dreadband,
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: because you killed a merderw And also I'm going to
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: make it a point to stay with you throughout the battle,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: to kill you when the pain becomes too much. I'm
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: gonna be here helping you out with when because you
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: won't be able to kill yourself because you'll be in
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: too much pain, So I'll do it for you.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: It's every zombie apocalypse movie ever, Right, you've gotten bit,
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna but we've got to fight through these zombies.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna fight with you, you know, to save the
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: main character. So we're gonna, you know, go in knowing
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: we're dead and kill each other if we see each
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: other turn Yeah, not quite as vital because it's not
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: like he's going to turn into a Merderll, but it's
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: got that same like you've been bit. When you can't
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: take it anymore, I'll take you out. It would be
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: cool though, if Mrdral could like spread like that's how
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: that's how that you create a murderall is by having
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: them like kill somebody.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: That would be pretty cool.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: And the person will like taken over by the corrupt
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: of the Thachndar blade and slowly become merderal.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: That would be really cool, actually.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Be very uh mister Smith from The Matrix, Yeah, totally,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: totally the way they all become identical, the same size,
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: the same kind, you know. M M.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: Fouji asks in the transformation, would the eyes get popped
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: out or sink in to the head.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: So again, since I'm using a matrix analogy, the way
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: they make his mouth go away, it just kind of
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: like forms together. Imagine the eyes would do the same
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: thing where they just like merge together and disappear.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: The eyelids just close over and then seem steam up
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: and then yep, yeah, they would sink into the head.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: I think, I think.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I don't think they pop out and vanish.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah horrific. Yeah.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So let's see tim Honius missus vannin. And then
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: he gives us a very funny line, the city is
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: going up faster than oil soaked love letters to a
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: high lord's mistress. That line oil soaked, they're not just
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: love letters, they're oil soaked love letters. M.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: What does the oil imply?
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: I assumed it was either like perfume, like from being
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: like really close to someone's body and getting like soaked
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: with like the perfume that they wear, or literally soaked
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: in oil to make them burn faster, because that's how
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: quickly things go in tyrone affairs, like literally lamp oil.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: I kind of went with the body oil was my idea,
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: or like perfumed oil.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, maybe letters that they were like reading
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: to each other, but they were rolling around naked in
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: their bed or something. So they're all like, you know, gross,
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: oh tyrants. They're not even kyrie in and I don't
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: know why we're making them out to be so nasty. Yes,
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: the tyrants do have oiled beers. Maybe it's beard oil.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know why there's beard oil on their letters.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's dripping off of their beers. That's gross, that's
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: too oily of a beard.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was trying to make I was gonna go
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: with something even dirtier, but I don't think that that works. Mmmm.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: So yeah, they deciither going to continue fighting up towards
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: the palace, and then we can hop forward to the
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: next POV. We are fighting more trolics and now Tom
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: Monies is starting to hit his stride with attacking. He's
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: now so committed to dying that he doesn't even care
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: to save himself, and that makes him a much more
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: effective fighter despite being drunk and in pain.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: Right, It's like that moment in hockey where they pull
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: the goalie out to go try and it. It's like
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: you're behind and you're losing. You know you're going to lose,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: so you might as well pull your goalie out of
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: the goal and risk those buy more and the chance
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: that you may have, you know, increased attack and do better.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: I've never seen it actually work in hockey. I'm sure
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: those of you who watch hockey have, But for in
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: this case, it's like, yeah, they're not expecting the constant attack,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: they're not expecting him not to defend himself, and that's
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: working for him.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And he's not complaining out loud like Matt would,
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: but he's having kind of Matt like thoughts, like people
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: who want to die in battle are fucking idiots. I
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: just want to be at home with my pipe. Like
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: he thinks about how Matt would be cursing a lot
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: and then he'd save them with brilliance, And all he's
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: doing is mentally bitching and then yelling encouragement. But it
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: has enough of the same effect. It's close enough to
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: a Matt impression.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: And I feel like that's a very common thing in battle,
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: to like, oh, the glory of battle and then you
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: get in and you get you're like this fucking sucks,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: Like I don't know, I don't want to die like this? What? No,
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: why didn't?
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: This is World War One in particular, right when colonial
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: violence that had been done at the frontiers suddenly came
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: home to Europe, right Like, Oh, I thought it was
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: glorious to die in battle, and it kind of was
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: fun to be in a machine gun nest while men
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: with spears ran at me. But now I have to
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: run at the machine gun nest. I hate this right.
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: Right, And well, yeah, no kidding. And then also just
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: the parallel of like guns being introduced into battle for
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: the first time, not knowing how to deal out, like
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: that's that's a whole thing.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: And then yeah, Tom Honus spots another fade. He realizes
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: he has no Brandy. And then right before everything all
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: goes to hell, Charles Guibond and some of the Queen's
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: guards show up and they kind of do a mutual
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: saving of each other, get through that fight, and in
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: an how we're teaming up. We found some allies.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: This is good because the only reason guy Bond was
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: able to rush out there is because he had already
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: pulled all of those bad guys away from the gate.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: Right the Guybond's forces were pinned at the gate defending
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: the palace, Talmnus attacks them from behind that rerap that
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: pulls them away from the gate, and then Guy Bond goes, oh,
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: I can go ahead and like, wait, why are they
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: all running away? Maybe we can go attack them from behind,
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: and that's exactly what he does, and so they get
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: sort of pincered between two forces.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so now to Manis has more humans to
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: work with, and that's good because they were getting a
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: little bit desperate there, but there's not enough eyes to
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: die to hop over to the warehouse right away.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: And I mean, the whole reason Guybond's is defending the
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: palace is because they're expecting someone basically Elaine's messenger to
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: check in, because they've been sending regular messages to Elaine
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: at the field of marrill Ore and when those stop,
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: they're hoping basically they're going to get the attention good, right,
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: because there were supposed they have four channelers, four ken
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: who together can make a gateway, but two of them are.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: Dead right right, because it was a dark Front attack
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: and they're kind of like, well, Elaine's going to come
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: save us at some point when she notices that we're
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: not checking in, like we'll get reinforcements, and Tomboys has
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: to say, look, she's probably busy with something else and
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: knows that there's a problem, like presumably shit is hitting
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: the fan all over the place. She'll figure it out
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: and she'll get to you, and she can get to you,
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: but right now, I need you to help me with
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: this dragon mission, like right now. And guy Bon, being
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: a practical man, is willing to not abandon his post
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: but change what his post is on his own volition
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: because that's what the situation calls for. It's technically abandoning
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: his post. But I mean, at a certain point, staying
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: at your post is a dereliction of duty, right.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: Staying there to tell the people who come in that
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: your post has been overrun isn't really gonna like they're
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: going to come in and be like, oh, yeah, this
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: is overrun. Shit's on fire, yo.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's the walking into the room and everything's
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: on fire and you just wanted to deliver a pizza
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: right like It's oh, like they'll figure it out. They'll
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: figure it out and the dragons are super important. Elaine
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: would rather not have you pick up the phone than
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: you know, let the dragons go.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Away right, fall into the wrong hands, because it's not
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: just losing them, it's giving the technology to the enemy.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And Guy Bond is so on board with that
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: aspect of you know, the op sect, that he adds
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: himself to the party, right, says, I'm coming with you.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: This is such an important mission. I'm coming with you.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: And he's leaves some of his men at the palace
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: to kind of distract the trolks to continue to allow
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: the people to get out of the gate, the city gate.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you have lots of refugees that have come
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: to the palace. He's a thousands of right, refugees that
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: they're protecting.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: Right, And he's like, look, there is for now a
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: corridor out, so work on that. But like we got
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: to go get the tech. And Guy bon says, coming
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: with you. And then we get to switch povs again.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: And the next POV we hop in with tom On
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: is being told by the kinswoman Jessamine that she will
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: not be able to heal him. Right, he had this
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: little flicker of hope that maybe he could get healed.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: Maybe he didn't have to die, but no, no, he's
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: really going to have to lean into this whole being
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: committed to already being dead thing.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: Right, because she's assuming she's just not that talented with healing.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Weak, she's just weak.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, as we know, it took four to make
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: a gateway.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: So and she says, this wound is too far along
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: for my skill. So yeah, she's not a healer. She
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: doesn't have a lot of power. Like she can help,
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: you know, with twisted ankles and burns, but this, this
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: is a lot. It's going to take a Nive giving
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: it her all with a tool.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: Right, Interesting, she is actually a talented healer.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Oh oh, she is a healer. So when she says
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: it's beyond her skill, that's letting us know that only
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: Ninetive was going to pull us off. If there was
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: any doubt in us as the audience that this was
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: going to be solvable by anyone but Ninetive.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: It's gone now, okay, And Jazzamin is named for Jessamine
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: and Jellica, a fan of the Wheel of Time.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we got us at doing the name thing again,
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: don't we.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now that now that we're back in the Wheel
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: of Time Sanderson section. A lot of these characters are
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: named for somebody else.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: Good for them. So she's the only one left of
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: the kinswomen, and they're kind of looking at the city
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: seeing that the only part of it that's not on
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: fire is where the way gates are or where the
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: waygate is, and the trollocks are pulling back to the
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: city walls, so just let the city burn. So the
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: activities are kind of, you know, simmering down for the
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: night to an extent.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: Well, and that area is clear because the talks pulled
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: down all the walls so they could see and pull
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: down all the buildings around so there's nothing to burn.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: Which that's not really how pulling down buildings work because
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: they wouldn't have to pull them down and then like
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: clear them out somewhere. Well, the taking the material into
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: the gateway and just throwing it over the edge of
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: the abyss, Like what if you pushed.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: All the buildings outward from the area you want to clear, right,
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: and pushing them into each other and filling the streets
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: with rubble, Like yeah.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: But that rebel burns right really easily.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: Well, how much of it's stone and how much of
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: it's would right, this is a very stone constructed city.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: So you're talking about a lot of interior walls and roofs,
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: but a lot of the exterior walls are going to
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: be at least partly stone, which makes them a lot
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: harder to push over. So I don't know. There's also
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: a line later where he talks about how there's heat
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: from the fires burning so hot that it's probably melting
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: the stones, and I'm like, please define to me which
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: stones those are and then we can talk about relative
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: stone melting points.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I wanted to ask you about that because.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: Because if that's granite, then no.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: Because it's got to be wood burning and it ain't
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: jet fuel, right, it's not even.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: In a chimney shape, particularly like a bonfire is hot.
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: I've seen what bonfires can do to like metal hardware
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: on cabinets, you know, I know kind of where that
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: sort of melting point is. Cobblestones are gonna shrug, They're
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: gonna get a little crispy, but they're not going to melt.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: No, not without the one power involved exactly. Yeah.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, here's the line. He's so strong it's probably
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: melting the cobblestones, like I'm gonna need you to tell
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: me what those cobblestones are made of?
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: Stone and cobble.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, so cobble is a size. Actually it's not a
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: mineral thing. Yeah, it goes like clay, dust, sand, gravel, cobble, boulder.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: So cobble is that you know, it's between gravel and
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: a boulder. Right. It's your basic fist to head sized
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: kind of chunk. And so that's why they're called cobblestones.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: That's about the size of a rock you want. But yeah,
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: it's a size definition, it's not a mineral or chemical definition.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: And then I'm guessing they're made.
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: Of stone, yes, yes, stone also being a very ambiguous
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: and non scientific term. May they not even tell us
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: if they're light or dark minerals that make up these rocks.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: At least we know the wood is made out of trees,
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: and that's a very well defined term.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: Yet trees a thing that notoriously do exist taxonomically.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: Speaking them and fish vegetables as well.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I was just thinking about this
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: the other day, just how funny it is we have
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: these these verbal things and these scientific taxonomic things, and
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: how once you really try to marry the two things together.
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: There's some really odd fits that leave some gaps to
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: be desired.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The fact that fruits exist but vegetables don't kind
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: of throws me for a loop. Yeah, because vegetables are
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: just it's like, oh, but corn, that's.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: A seed, right, Strawberries that's a.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: Stem, Lettuce that's yeah, that's a fruit, that's a.
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, strawberries are stem material.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: Oh that's right. Yeah, because they have the seeds on
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: the outside. They're not even for Yeah.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the fruits are the seeds, but the thing we
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: eat is actually just a swollen chunk of stem. It's
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: a whole thing. But also, you know, vegetables very much
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: exist if you're in a kitchen, right culinary sense, vegetables
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: are a very real category.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: Anyhow, Oh interesting, Charles Guybond might be one of the
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: first people named after uh because Jordan actually named him
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: after a fan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Charles Guybond is named
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: after a man whose wife won an auction for naming
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: rights after I agreed to be a part of a
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: fundraiser for an English charity that works with victims of torture.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: Neat So that's actually name for a fan of the
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: Wheel of time before Sanderson.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: He's a unique name insert relatively unique anyway, So yeah,
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: Tamanis is no longer fighting. He's too weak to fight.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: He's just staggering behind the fighting line, watching what's happening.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: Doing what most bosses do supervised while they said on
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: their ass.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: And he is leaning on his sword and staggering down
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: the street. And I wouldn't say he's lazy, but yeah,
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: well he's leading from the back, which is what good
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: supervisors do, right, He's trying to manage the operation, not
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: getting slaughtered because he can't even swing a sword anymore,
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: because he's got to see the dragons protected, right, that's
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: his entire mission in life. And they get to the
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: warehouse and it looks like the warehouse has burned down
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: and everyone's gone, and it's very sad. And no, no,
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: it's not said. Eludra has more agency than that. She's
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: not just gonna sit on her ass and wait to
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: be rescued.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: No, she's already rescued them. She's like, here's top. MoMA's
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: being like, I'm gonna rescue the cannons. And you know
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: there's always a woman who's done at first, it's like, god.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: She she does say you took your sweet ass time
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: getting to me. She was clearly expecting him to show
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: up eventually. But yeah, she's got a thousand refugees conscripted
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: into her little emergency mobile force. So she's got not
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: only the dragons, but a thousand people all being kept
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: safe for the moment, waiting for you know, a larger
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: rescue force. But she's taken agency not just for her tech,
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: but all so for random people. Yes, because she needed
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: them to push the carts around, but also, you know,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: competent woman.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Right now, looking back at the series, I think Aludra
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: has definitely slept on as one of the most competent women.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: Like she invents gunpowder, guns, cannons, she gets someone to
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: fund it, she builds it, she has it, and she's
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: very effective. Yeah, very very effective. Yeah.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, and then we have the really good scene with
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: Tomani's where he's too weak to fight. He's too weak
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: to fight, and then he starts laughing in the face
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: of a fade because why not, and men say he
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: doesn't have a sense of humor, and he just eats
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: the fade for breakfast, just goes out there, just absolutely
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: butchers it. And it is surprised, RDI ker starts taking
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: hits on him and he doesn't respond, and that confuses
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: the Fade and it gives him the edge she needs
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: to fight it, because he figures out the secret to
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: fighting them is you have to already be dead.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: Well, it's that moment where the fade nicked him and
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: expected him to recoil, and and when he didn't, that
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: just threw the Fade for a loop. And he used
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: that moment of hesitation to win the battle. And it's like, yes,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: you've accepted you're already dead, and that gave you, you know,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: the ability to continue. And it's like, oh, that's how
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: Land probably wins, right.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: I didn't come to win. I came to kill.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: You exactly, you know, like you just don't worry about dying.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: You just killed them.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: As the ae'll say of Rand, he has embraced death
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: and that makes him more flexible, more fluid, more adaptable,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: more likely to survive, more likely to succeed. Sometimes you
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: sheathe the sword and you walk away.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: Not fearing death makes it a little more likely to
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: not die, you know. And I see that a lot
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: like anxiety can rule your life. I know that I've
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: belived that like you cannot enjoy things because you're afraid
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: you won't enjoy them.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: Right, or even on a less dramatic scale, you know
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: how rushing usually actually slows you down. Right, If you
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: actually just proceed at the normal pace of things, you'll
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: probably get whatever you're trying to do done as fast
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: as if you had like freaked out and like run
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: around with the chicken with her head cut off.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: You know, slow as smooth, smooth as fast.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: Right, right, yeah, very much so, very much. So, you know,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: if you want to be a little bit less like existentially,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: like you know, death versus life about it, like just yeah,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: it's the same deal. Sometimes worrying about the outcome is
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: what makes the outcome worth worrying about.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: I like that. So what are these explosions that are
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: going on?
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: I was wondering about that because.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: He says they're not loud enough to be dragons.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: But she's holding a cylinder in her hand, so she
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: might be throwing grenades. Throwing grenades.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: They're grenades, That's what the explosions are.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: She's got more than one explosion of per sleeve, right, yeah,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: Tamani says, we have to get them out, and a
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: lot o Leuchter says this, it is a new revelation
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: to you.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: He's like, well, I'm communicating with you. Geez god.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: She's like, communication is not okay in my wheel.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: At what are you doing? We don't communicate in this
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: wheel of times?
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: And then and then she's she's like you all right,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: He's like, smiling, just seems garish. I'm fine. She's like,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: and the veins and then he notices that he all
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: of his veins are black. And because he is a
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: you know, decently pale man, that is very dramatic. But
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: it is a very dramatic look. He looks haggard, he
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: looks like shit, he's probably a little on the dehydrated side.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: And now all of his veins are black. So he
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: looks like a walking nightmare.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: And I will once against once again reference a series
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: that I've talked about many times before, but the like
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: Heenus trilogy, there's actually a group of people who have
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: their magic stolen from them, and the mark is all
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: their veins turn black.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: Also, if you've been playing a Balder's Gate and you
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: make certain choices and you don't have a certain mod
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: to make it not happen, all of your veins go black.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: I played it like that once and then I got
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: the mod that makes it not do that because I
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: want the powers. I don't want the weird look. It
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: looks really unsettling.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: Veins turning black is definitely a fantasy trope of like
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: corruption and evil.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah in The Witcher too, Yeah yeah yeah, no black eyes,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: black veins. I get why you do it for the
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: magic reasons, but don't do that to my character. In
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: Valter's Kape, I want the cool powers though, and.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: Then and you get some of that dry humor. This
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: is this is a little more show not tell. Is
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: when she says what's wrong with your face? And he goes.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: I once say it to sharp Cheese, and its never
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: quite sat right with me because he always has like
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: a slight scowl. He doesn't smile. And I'm sure that's
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: a line he's using.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: Resting bitch face for sure.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, resting bitch face right there. Yeah, he basically
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: I had a sour cheese as was like a lemon. Right.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: And then he gets told, you know, there's more trollocks
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: that he says, lovely set the table, right, He gets
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: really deep into his sarcasm, like I think it's not
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: just Sanderson being a lazy writer. I think he's also
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: trying to communicate, like the loopiness is getting really.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: Bad, right, right, And Sanderson writes really bad corny humor
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: pretty well, because that's the only kind of where he's got.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: He's got real dad humor energy going on, and like.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: The dad annoying kind, but he also has religious person humor.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, So Tamanus and Alida now have to decide
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: what they're doing with the dragons, right, she says, I
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: can't you know, I've got a few shots for each dragon, right,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: she was kind of already thinking about blowing them up.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: And then Tamana says, I need a horse, probably to
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: continue forward. And then we switch povs, and as of
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: the beginning of the next POV, he'd fallen off the
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: horse not long after starting for the k like the
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: horse doesn't even last.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: But the horse gets him to the next POV. It's
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: I think it's important that he has it. But now
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: it's like, okay, we are deteriorating. First we're walking. Now
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: you need a horse now, not even the horse is
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: good enough to keep you going.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And he's you know, starting to think about
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: like I should have teased Matt Moore, like he's.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: Out of it.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: He's really starting to slip towards the great light in
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: the sky. Now we've got Danel talking with a Ludra
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: about the strategy right now. Danel is the one who's
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: in charge of the operation, and Eludras saying, these are
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: not machine guns, dude, they're not eyes to die. I
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: can throw off a few rounds, I can't make a
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: wall of fire to keep the trollocks back.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: They're also not land mines, right. He's like, oh, if
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: we just take the balls and put them on the
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: ground when people step on, they're explode. And she's like, no,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: that's no, no. And it's like this is a new
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: technology and the people who whose job it is to
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: come up with the strategy to fight don't understand. That's
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: why I Ludra is so important to be there, because
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: she's the only one who really understands how they work.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: These aren't magic balls that explode when enemies touch them.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: Right right exactly, But you have to know how fireworks
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: work on this whole other level in order to think
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: about them strategically.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: Until you see it working, you know, until you understand
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: and how guns work and gunpowder works and cannon's work,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: which these people don't because they've never seen it implemented.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. And so then Melton comes over to Tom
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: Honis and is like, dude, you look like you're ready
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: for me to put you out of your misery. So
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: you know it's been been at honor. And then Tom
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: Hones is like, all right, cool, Nope, never mind, I'm
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: not ready to die. Never mind, I'm good. I want
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: to continue being alive in all this pain. Let me
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: talk to Eludra gets back into the.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: Fight, which is an interesting way to be like he
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: was able to over like the pain was enough to
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: take him out, and he's like, wait a minute, I
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: don't want to die. I can overcome the pain for
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: a little bit longer.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: I can't tell if that's some sort of weird religious
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: aversion to suicide or if it's just Tom Banis is
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: that much of a badass and found he had one
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: more little pocket of resistance in his soul. I'm not
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: sure what I'm supposed to take from that.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you go back again. This is
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: just because I've read Sanderson so much. A laundress has
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: a very similar moment where the main character spoilers for
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: launtras end of the book. It's his first book that
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: came out, going for it. At the end of that book,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: the main character is in this point because because the
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: whole point of that book is nobody can heal, right whatever,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: You're stuck in, whatever state you are, So you stub
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: your toe. Your toe hurts like you just stubbed it
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: for the rest of your life, right. And so by
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: the end of the series, the main character is in
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: so much pain that he's gone completely insane because like
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: all the various injuries, and because he's more powerful, it
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: affects him more. Yaha, YadA, YadA, and so he's just
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: he's completely out of it and like he's lost his mind.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: And then he has this moment where he's like, no,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: not yet, I have one more idea where I can
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: come back and figure out the solution to our problem.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to come out of madness, out of sickness,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: and fix the problem with magic and allow myself to
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: heal essentially, And this feels very similar where you have
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: this character who is in so much pain, in so
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: much and he's just not even functional anymore. But he
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: has one last idea, which is flip the cannons around,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: and he comes out of it long enough to tell everybody,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: flip the cannons around and we can survive.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: It makes for a good heroic moment, but it just
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: feels so like the power was inside you the whole time.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: Victim blame me of people that are literally dying. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: I have a confused emotional reaction to that. When it's
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: used over and over and over again once or twice
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: once at the end, big huge climax, semi divine person, okay,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: but when it's every good heroic character, it starts to
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: make me wonder, like, so we're everyone who doesn't do that,
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: like bad people or not good and.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: The people who gave into the pain just not.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: They just didn't try hard enough. I don't like that.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: That gives me an icky feeling.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: But it is a fantasy trope, right. There is the
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: the you are overcome, and then you have the realization
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: you level up, you go super saying you know, whatever
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: whatever it is that you do that lets you access
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: that next level of power and ignore the pain, ignore
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: the burden, ignore the list. Right, That is very common
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: in fantasy, but this in particular feels almost beat for beat,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: like the lantris ending.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: And yeah, it's really common in fantasy, and I wonder
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: how much of that is part of the problem with
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: how we approach some of these dire situations in real life.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: The whole other podcast worth of topics. Yes, I do
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: like the part where he thinks about how the pain
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: is dulling, like glowing flames running out of fresh coal.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: I do like that sort of that arc to his
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: thing of like, Okay, it really burned me up and
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: now it's just sort of the last little the last logs,
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: the last coals, the last edges around the campra I've
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: been around a lot of raging, raging like palette fires, flames,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: you know, thirty feet tall, and then yeah, a few
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: hours later, it's just this ring of smoking out bits
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: that you can kick together to kind of burn up again.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: And so I like that visual as Tom Honess is
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: like thinking about like what he has left to give,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: and then yeah, a Luna comes over and says, you know,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: I've set the charges under the dragons to destroy them.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: We want to scuttle the technology. The charges they will
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: destroy the weapons, they may hurt the people in an
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: unpleasant way, right saying these people that we've collected and
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: protected and brought into this space, we are choosing to
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: meet grinder them when we set these charges off.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: Because you're essentially creating a shrapnel bomb in them. I mean,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: these are giant chunks of metal that you're blowing up.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not small chunks of shrapnel, big chunks.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: That are designed to withstand explosions inside of them. So like,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: that's also why I'm kind of like, would does she
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: even have explosions big enough to destroy these tubes? She
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: can destroy the carts right and everything around them, But
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: would it actually, you know, or our cannons weaker from
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: the outside, would is blowing them up from the outside
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: going to cause them to compress whereas they're stronger on
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: the inside. Like, is that something that's going on with cannons?
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: Also wondered about that, maybe just the idea of if
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: they were flung far enough, then when they hit, they're
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: going to end up, you know, bending enough that they'd
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: be unusable, essentially dropping them right by by pushing them
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: so hard with an explosion.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: I guess, I don't know.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: I've I found that a little bit questionable too, But
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: I also see that. You know, it's the last desperate act.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: All your gunpowder around the most vulnerable parts and hope, right,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: I mean they don't have ice to die, right, Like,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: how else are they going to try to scuttle these things?
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: Fired them at each other? Like that might not be
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: very effective.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: Oh well, I liked af your pants analogy here the
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: fighting through cancer, Like describing the battle with cancer as
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: a battle, right, is just a terrible way of doing
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: it because that means that people who died didn't fight
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: hard enough, which is not Yeah.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: You weren't strong enough inherently, and it's like that's not
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: how it works.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: That's not how that works.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like emotionally, it's good to go again. You know
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: they're emotionally strong, they're going to emotionally get through this.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: But yeah, when it slips into you just didn't believe,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: you didn't pray, you didn't whatever hard enough, and that's
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: why you died. Like it's a slippery slope from they
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: can handle this emotionally to they should have just.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: Prayed harder, or maybe they prayed hard enough, but God
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: didn't like them because they weren't x y Z good enough,
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: pious enough.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: It's a real, real slippy slope with a lot of
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: different on ramps. But yeah, so the crew realizes that
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: they are pressed against a wall, and that's the problem.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: Pressed against a wall, hmmm.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: And that wall is covered in hundreds of trollocs, thousands
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: of trulcs, right, so you know by blowing up the wall,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: you were also killing all the trullucks on the wall,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: which is a huge number of enemies.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you changed the entire balance of the equation
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: for the whole battlefield. If you can shatter a wall
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: covered in troops like that just changes everyone's calculus. And
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: he's like, hey, you said you could take down an
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: enemy wall, all right, we could do that, right, And
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: Charles Guibon goes, oh, a Lane's going to be so
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: mad at me, right, like Tamanus and Matt both have
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: their bosses going to be mad at them for the
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: things they've had to choose to do in order to
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: get through this.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: But there's a reason modern cities don't have walls, and
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: it's because once you have cannons, walls are pointless.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: Yep. Literally, cannons do negate the concept of a fortified
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: wall as a safety mechanism for a city, so it's
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: appropriate here.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: It's like they're really good at deflecting arrows, not so
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: much good at deflecting cannon balls.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and for a while they kept building the walls
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: thicker and thicker, but you know, in that arms race,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: ultimately cannons could go faster than earthworks. But there's some
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: very thick walls from the early gunpowder period when it
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, we'll just double the thickness of the
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: wall and then it's fine. Like some of those are
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: pretty well preserved now because they're impressive earthworks.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: Right, and they didn't actually get fired on.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: The guns in those days were as dangerous to fire
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: as they were to be fired at.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: Right, Right, Oh my god, I mean I just I
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: just watched a video of someone trying to fire an
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: RPG and it exploding next to his head and basically
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: taking him out, you know, I mean, explosives are still
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: incredibly dangerous to fire. Yes, No, I think I think
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: he was using a modified like aftermarket. Basically, someone sold
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: them an RPG and cut it up so it couldn't
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: be used, and someone welded it back together so it
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: could be used, and they did not do a good job.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that doesn't sound like it was according to the
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: manufacturer's directions.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: No. Yeah, so my understanding based on you know, five
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: minutes of looking at an Internet video.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: Well that seems like more research than most people do
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: these days. So congratulations. So yeah, they spin the some
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: of the dragons around and the refugees all get the
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: memo that they need to duck real quick, like a
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: record baby right round right, and yeahs you know, Guyban says,
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: my poor city, and Tamna says, oh, no, it's not
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: your city anymore, Like, no, it's not.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: It's not because the trucks they came out of the
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: way gate. The way gate. Now, remind me where the
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: waygate and Camelon is located.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: It's like under some building. It's in a basement, right.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: The city has grown over it. And I don't recall
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: the building on top being given much mention other than
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: that it's just on top and it's a wall in
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: a basement.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: Now, because part of me was like, isn't it in
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: the palace, And I was like, no, it's not the palace.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: No, no, it's in a nicer part of town, but
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: it's not in the palace. And Tamanis has one last
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: Hurrah in him, and he is the one that actually
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: lights the cannons that fire on the walls, and that
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: is how we end today's episode is with a fantastic explosion.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: Give me one of those bloody punks, which, by the way,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: give me one of those bloody punks is one of
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: those phrases that like would fit in the eighties as well, right, yeah,
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: goddamn punks. But punk in this case refers to basically
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: a burning stick.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't quite know what the full etymology
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: of that is, but yes, it's a stick intended for
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: lighting fuses. Smoky, it burns well, it's not going to
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: go out or light up too fast. It's punky. I've
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: used the word punky to describe firewood, or would that
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: we wanted to be firewood. Punky wood is like light
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: and crumbly and eaten by termites and not really good
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: for burning, but it is very smoldery, so I could
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: see punky wood actually being quite useful in the case
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: of being a fuse lighter thing.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: A punk is a smoldering stick used for lighting firework
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: firework fuses. It is safer than a matter a lighter
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: because it can be used from a greater distance and
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: does not use an open flame. They are made of
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: bamboo and a brown coating of compressed sawdust. Punks often
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: resemble sticks of incense, and in some countries' actual incense
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: sticks are used in a similar fashion.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, sawdust, Like you know another that's basically a TERMINI
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: sleep behind is sawdust. So oh yeah, okay, so yeah,
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: all I have left is for you to read us out.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: Give me one of those bloody punks, Talmanus shouted, holding
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: out a hand. One of the dragoneers obeyed, passing him
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: a flame brand with a glowing red tip. Shouldn't be flaming?
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: But whatever?
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: Why is a punk?
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: So it's not whatever, as we just discovered, God damn it.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: He pushed away from mountain, determined to stand on his
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: own for the moment. Guy Bond stepped up. The man's
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: voice sounded soft to Talmanus's strained ears. Those walls have
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: stood for hundreds of years. My poor city, my poor
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: poor city. It's not your city any longer, Talmanas said,
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: raising his flaming brand high in the air, defiant before
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: a wall thick with trollocks, a burning city to his back.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: It's theirs Talmanus swiped the brand down in the air,
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: leaving a trail of red. His signal ignited a roar
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: of dragonfire that echoed throughout the square. Trollocks, pieces of
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: them at least, blew into the air. The wall under
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: them exploded like a stack of children's blocks kicked at
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: a full run. As Talmanus wavered, his vision blackening, he
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: saw the wall crumble outward. When he toppled, slipping into unconsciousness.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: The ground seemed to tremble from the force of his fall.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: Good, beautiful, analogous chaos.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: We love to see it, him falling as the wall fell.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: Great combo. Great yeah, way to demonstrate. And do I
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: think perhaps he should have died there, and that would
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: have been better for his character. Maybe I do like
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: having him in the later book, But I think that
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: like that moment of he fell and discovered the true
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: consequences of gunfire and stuff like that, and it spread like.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: To have Matt lose one of his most trusted and
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: important people in that moment of and this is how
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: gunpowder takes down walls. Also to lose the strong, comforting
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: wall that is talmanis right, Yeah, losing him here would
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: have been really good. I think we would be just
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: as in love with Sanderson's Tomnes even if he had
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: just died. Here in was all they got of him.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: And it's just the first of many, many many I
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: wouldn't call him death fake outs necessarily, but like the
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: chapter ends with a statement that could be the death
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: of a character, and later you find out he's not dead.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this one I didn't feel faked out on at all,
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: but it.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: Could have no, And that's why I hesitate to use
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: the fake out.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not a fake out, not truly.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: It's it's all these like uncertain like and the character
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: fell and then darkness took him, and then and you're like,
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: is he unconscious or is he dead? You're not. You're
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: not being specific, and so you can bring him back
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: later if you want, or you can be like, oh, yeah,
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: he died that in that moment. And I almost don't
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: like that very much because I'd rather just be like,
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: oh my god, like his head was cut off, he's dead, Like,
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: you know, I want to see the bodies that the
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: body is, but either unambiguously live or unambiguously die, right,
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: I don't want to see this like and biguous death
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: that later you get to find out whether or not.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: And I know it's a method of building tension. I
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: just don't like it. I just don't like it.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: It's overused, It's overused by Sanderson in this book. This
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: one doesn't bother me because it is the prologue. And
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I mean, he's a pretty cool character. It'd
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: be nice if he could at least like make it
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: to a numbered chapter before he dies. But yeah, Also,
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: if he died here, I would have been like, Okay,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: so the stakes are real.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: I guess, right, oh right, Yeah. I just think from
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: a storytelling place, I think it would have been better
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: to have him die here and just have someone else
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: step up and take his place. But then we would
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: have missed some of the really nice interaction between him
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: and Matt later on. So and I'm not mad.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: With Matt's epicness rubbing off on his second.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: No, No, I'm not either. I'm not either.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: I'm the man that should have been his husband, that
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: bitch empress.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how he should have become a noble.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: Marrying telmanis exactly Talmantis has plenty of noble rank to share.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: He's got enough Boots.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: I think he's got enough. Boots is a good one.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, thanks for.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: Joining us again this week and joining us for a
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: Memory of Light. Like I'm very excited to have you
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: guys along for that journey. The last, the fourteenth step
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: in this long, long journey of the real.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: Time recording is on. And I was just telling Seth
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: and I want to tell all of you about how
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: much fun I'm having watching Netflix's adaptation of Little House
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: on the Prairie. I have been watching it with my
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: mom and we just talked about it over on used
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: to sew. We've gotten through five of the eight episodes
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: so far, so we haven't watched the whole thing yet,
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: but we both agree that the costume department was definitely
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: the best paid department in the production of this show.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: The costumes are incredible, so much storytelling coming through them,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: so much historical accuracy. We did see a sewing machine,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: and we were very excited because there is a sewing
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: machine in the books. It does feature in like an
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: arc of Laura's life briefly, and there's just a brief
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: glimpse of it, and we screenshotted it and we looked
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: real close and my mom pointed out some of the
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: field marks on it a singer. You can see the
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: ironwork thing that says singer in the tretle stand in
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: the window. It's very obviously a singer. But it has
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: a what did she say? It has a face mounted
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: tension so it sticks out the side of the face
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: plate and a round service panel on the back to
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: get to the parts in the pillar. And that means
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: that it's a fifteen class singer, which did not get
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: patented until the eighteen nineties. The show is set in
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: eighteen sixty four or so.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: So trash TV, just absolute trash TV. Yeah, this is
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: will completely garbage.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: There's absolutely no redeeming qualities because they got this one
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: prop twenty years anachronistic. But like it's just a great show.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: Toss that baby out with the bathwater.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. If if you ever read Little House on the
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: Prairie books, this is a really beautiful mix of faithfulness
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: to the books and new historical context.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: Having not read the books, sell me like what's going
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: on with the books? Like why why would I read
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: the books?
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, So the books are a classic piece of American
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: propaganda about how good manifesting the destiny.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: Was ah okay.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: The books are actually written primarily by Laura Ingalls Wilder's daughter,
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: Rose Wilder, and she is one of the founding mothers
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: of libertarianism.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: You're not selling me on these books. You're not selling
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: me on these books.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: So but let me finish. So the context is that
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: Rose is an up and coming libertarian and her mom
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: starts writing her memoirs as a grandmother. She decides to
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: start writing when grandma was a little girl, these are
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: my memories, and her daughter decides, we need to spin
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: this up into a whole literary thing. So the books
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: are first of all, like fifty years in the past,
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: just as memories from the Jump. And then Rose has
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: a very strong political angle that she wants to push,
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: which is that everyone on the frontier was completely independent
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: and denver needed help from anyone. That kind of stuff. Right,
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: we're talking like the nineteen twenties, I think, is when
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of that was happening. But the core of
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: the books are a woman remembering what it was like
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: to deal with being a small child in an illegal
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: land invasion in the Midwest.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: Her dad, because he was a dumbass, takes them out
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: into Indian country before it is legal to settle there,
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: so they literally do the frontline illegal squatting that becomes
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: proper legal manifest destiny. And she has a lot of
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: very vivid recollections of like the technology, the smells, the
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: way that people interacted, but all from like a little
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: kid's perspective. So it's really awesome books if you want
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: to be a little kid reading about what it was
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: like to be a little kid in another time.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: The memories are very visceral. It's like really tactile books
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: for little kids.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: And so it's memoirs more than fiction.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a very fictionalized memoir, but yes, it's fundamentally
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: a memorir and it runs from so they start out
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: in the woods of Wisconsin, and then they go out
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: to Independence, Kansas, and then ultimately to Desmit, Iowa, Iowa,
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: and that's where they settle permanently. And the books cover
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: from when she's like four to twenty four. They kind
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: of speed up near the end, like when she's a teenager,
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: but the first four books are like from when she's
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: four to fourteen, right, So that really vivid kid part
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: of of your formative life, and they deal with wild stuff,
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: like as a whole locust invasion thing, and the railroad
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: comes and there's a really intense winter that like is
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: attested in the historical record. So in the seventies there
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: was a TV show made of Little House that, as
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: my mom puts, it was mostly an excuse for Michael
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: Landon to take his shirt off and on camera.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, most of.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: It very loosely based on the books. So this is
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: much closer to retelling the books, but now it's retelling
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: it in terms of like, so from the perspective of
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: the adults in the room, from the perspective of the
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: osage who were being illegally squatted on, from the perspective
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: of all these different kinds of people on the frontier,
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: how does this story go? And here's this cute little
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: family with this dumb ass palette and dad just like
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: trying to be all, you know, smiley and hopeful with
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: his fucking fiddle and his little tomboy daughter Laura.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: And you were saying, the set design works really well
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: because it was a brandly new constructed settlement and then
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: obviously they built it for the for the series. But
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: then it looks like, well, it looks brand new, and
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: it is brand new because both in the story and
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: in real life, it was built brand new.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, so the costumes and the sets were all
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: very well designed for this whole show. So much storytelling
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: in the costumes, and yeah, they built the town. They
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: built the set of the town, and so like normally
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: when you're watching TV and you're like, oh, that timber
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: looks really new and all that paint looks barely dry,
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: and that is taking me out of my suspension of disbelief.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: In this case, it's very accurate, right, Like episode two,
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: the post office gets finished, right, this is a town
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: that is being thrown together as fast as possible, and
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: it's all and they show so much of like the
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: technology they had to use to put the like to
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: cut the timber. Oh my god, there's just so much
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: cool stuff in the sets. And like I was telling
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: you that there's this one guy who he's very sad,
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: and you can tell before he opens his mouth and
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: gives you any of his backstory that he is sad
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: about having lost a woman in his life because he's
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: living in this like can barely be called a shed.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: It's like a pile of planks, sort of like leaned
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: against a tree trunk and he's technically living in it.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: But like, his shirt is mended so badly, like crudely.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: The stitches aren't even they're big, they're on the outside
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: of the seams. The fabric is completely ratty and hasn't
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: been replaced. And then in the same shot you see
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: you know, paw Ingles, who has you know, a loving
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: wife at home, and like his shirts are perfectly neatly stitched.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: All the repairs are very tidy. Right, he's a working
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: man with no money, so like there's definitely visible mending,
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: but it's neat and so before mister Edwards even opens
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: his mouth and tells you any of his backstory, you're
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: just like, oh, this man is sad, Like, look at
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: how bad his shirt is put together. Like the repairs
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: barely even count as repairs, so it's really just and
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: like all of the not all of it. But there's
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: a lot of creative use of plaids and stripes, and
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: the stripes just perfectly match, and like you can tell
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: different aspects of people's social class, Like, so there's my angles, right,
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: poor hard working frontiers woman. There's miss Emily who runs
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: the store. It's very prosperous, but like still working class.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: And then there's missus Jones or James or something, and
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: she's like the fancy snobby lady and like the number
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: of frills on each of their clothes. Right, my Angles
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: has like a little bit of frill right exactly. It's
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: that kind of energy, like the fancy lady and the
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: stupid Victorian house is just frothing with frills. There's just
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: so much frills all over all of her clothing. And
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: then miss Emily has like some she has a very
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: nice dress, extremely nice fabric, and like some frills, not
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: as many as the fancy lady, but more than the
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: woman working out on the edge of town where the
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: Angles are. And it's just so much of the technology
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: is so accurate, and like the clothes are aged properly,
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 2: like the hems are dusty from walking across the prairie.
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: Which and I think one of the reasons I really
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: wanted to record this and talk about it is because,
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: like we watched the Wheel of Time TV show and
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: how they failed to properly age the clothes. You know,
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: Randon Matt after walking out of a fucking three months
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: of dusty walking, came out with brand new, clean clothes somehow,
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: right Like, And I don't know who would have thought
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: fans of the Wheel of Time would care about storytelling
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: through clothing. I know that's in the series of right Like.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: It's so much more than Morain is wearing blue. It's
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: like Ma has a dress that she keeps wearing from
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: work day to work day to work day, and so
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: you can tell that the neck is kind of stained,
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: and then she's got like a nice collar that she
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: can attach to it for making it fancier. And like
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: you can tell when they're dressing up real hard to
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: try to impress people, versus when they're like, I'm gonna
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: be crawling around in the mud anyway, I might as
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: well wear this. They've only got a few changes of clothes,
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: but like you can see that they've been using them. Yeah,
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: all of the gear looks worn, except for the lumber
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: again because the lumber has all just been cut down
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: and all of the O stage costumes. Also, again, we
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: do not have generic pan Indian amalgamation stuff. We have
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: like very detailed and accurate traditional garb as well as
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: more like hybridized garb. Like there's this one family where
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: the dude really wants to assimilate. He's like, if the
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: white people are coming anyway, we might as well try
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: to play by their rules and assimilate and keep something
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: of our land in our traditions. And he's got a
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: style of house that's very southern. It's very like a loo,
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: my mom explaining like a Louisiana house. And then there's
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: like the fancy lady from back east who orients around Pennsylvania,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: and she's got more of the Victorian style housers might
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: also be anachronistic. And then there's like the actually still
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: very fiercely traditional people where we haven't seen their homesite yet,
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: but I'm assuming at some point we're going to go
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 2: out to like a traditional osage village, because some of
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: the costumes are just they're just so I'm like, you
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: have to show us their houses, right, You're gonna show
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: us people dressed in that many bones, with that many feathers,
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: with that kind of body paint. Surely I get to
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: see their houses too, right, Right? And the writing's good too.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: I've really enjoyed the character development and the different dynamics,
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: Like I mean, the books originally write because of Rose
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: very like oh, and then everyone was independent and anyone
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: who needed a help was a terrible person for needing help.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: And like, first episode, you have the doctor who helps
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: them after their first you know, scary incident, being like
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: so you do realize that nobody makes it alone out here, right,
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: Like he has this whole great speech about like, so,
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: as a person who's been living here for a few years,
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: I can tell you you will die unless you reach
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: out to people for help. And he literally says, it's
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: a pretty story that everyone out here is independent. And
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: I'm like the fourth wall. The fourth wall has been
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: shattered into a thousand pieces with that line. But I'm
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: enjoying it tremendously. Like I said, it still three episodes
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: to go.
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: I can tell just by like you are just absolutely
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: enthusiastic on this. It's wonderful. Yeah, so much fun.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: My mom and are having the greatest time. And like
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: every time there's a quilt like quilt, like Leonardo dicaprio're
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: like pointing at the TV and they're basic quilts. They're
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: not fancy, elaborate quilts. They're very basic quilts with like
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: traditional like the wagon wheel patch design and it's just ugh. Yeah,
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: even though there's definitely some whitewashing. There's definitely still some
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: you know, America propaganda, manifest destiny shit. Like it is
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: such a massive update on the TV show from the
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: seventies and on the original books, Like if you enjoyed
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: the concept of Laura Ingalls growing up in that world
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: and in those books were a big part of your
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: life growing up, like this is a worthwhile show to
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: engage with. It's definitely I think should be included in
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: the canon of the Little House myth because you know,
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: as a country, as a culture, we've decided that the
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: story is important. So yeah, it's kind of like the
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: Odyssey in a lot of ways, it's just a lot
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: more recent.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: It's an American because America is not that old, so
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: in American Odyssey isn't that old.
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's it's a multi generational story, right. My
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: mom grew up on them, and then when I was
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: that same age, I grew up on them too, right, Like,
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: you might as well engage with this excellent new telling.
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: And I know my mother also grew up on them, right,
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: I know she was a fan of the books, she
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: was a fan of the show, right, Like, but I
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: never it's something I Never picked up.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: The show was not good. Also, the main reason why
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: the show sucked, aside from Michael Landon being stupid, is
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: that Michael Landon was clean shaven and one of the
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: most visceral sense memories Laura has of her father is
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: that he had a scritchy beard. Like, you can't take
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: that away. You can change how he talks to people.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: You can change what the name of the town is.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: You can change what his job was. I don't care.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: You can't change his beard. The beard is too integral
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: to this little girl's memories. But oh my god, the costumes.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: The costumes. You guys, you need to appreciate the costumes.
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: Go listen to yous to sew the episode that we
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: have about that it will be out, I think just
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 2: before this one comes out. Seriously, like, listen to me
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: and my mom rant about it. Okay, I'm done.
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: Now I'm stuck in wedding season. I've got Never's friends
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: are in are getting married, right, they're just of the age.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: Where she's a trendsetter.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, oh my god, because we invited a bunch
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: of people to our wedding, right, who are in couples
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: who are now getting married were.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: Then you had a sweet, beautiful wedding.
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: We're getting invited back to all of these weddings, right,
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: So yeah, no, it's been I think it's going to
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: be four weddings this summer.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's a lot of weddings.
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, wed so and she's in all of them. It's
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: not like we're going to them. She's like bridesmaid in
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: all of these. Ah, right, so.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: It's like you're part of the wedding.
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, these are big it's these are big deal weddings
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: right for her. So yeah, we're we went on Sunday
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: to a wedding. I guess it's it's three this summer.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: We had one last summer, so I'm kind of counting
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: that in the group of four. But yeah, it just
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: it definitely feels like wedding season. So yeah, I had
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of fun. Got to see two of my
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: good friends get married and never played matchmaker with two friends,
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: so you know, we'll see how that goes. And yeah,
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: the wedding was nice. They very simple. They did a
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: not tying ceremony, didn't exchange vows, so the whole the
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: whole ceremony itself was like I think less than ten
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: minutes and then afterwards was just a party. You no speeches.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: About thirty five people total, so pretty small wedding, but
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: had a lot of fun. And the dancing went on
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: for a couple hours because that's it's all the bride wanted.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: She's like, I want people to dance, so we danced
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: for a couple hours. I'm getting better at dancing as
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: I'm discovering. I had a lot of trouble with it.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: Being on the dance floor was very difficult for me,
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: I think as a kid, and now I can go
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: out there and just be like, well, I'm gonna be
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: stupid and do the white man, you know, bob back
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: and forth dance, and you know, at the end of it,
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: I had a couple of people come up and be like,
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: I'm glad because it was mostly women on the dance floor,
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: and it was like, thank you for like coming out
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: to the dance floor and staying out there. Because again,
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: a wedding of thirty five people, some of which are elderly,
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: there's just not that many people for the dance floor.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: You know, like to maintain the dance floor for a
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: couple of hours, you pretty much have to have everyone
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: dancing most of the time, who can dance? So yeah,
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: that was that was my Saturday or Sunday.
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: And of course you know when because my wife's in
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: the wedding party, it's like, yeah, you're trying to anyway,
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: it's very unnatural for me. I'm getting better at it.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: Well that's good. It sounds like you're going to need
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: the press.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Two more, two to go to down, two to go.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: Nice. Nice. Thank you for listening to the Wheel of
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: Time Spoilers podcast. Please rate and review us on your
• 1:39:12
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• 1:39:15
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• 1:39:19
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• 1:39:23
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