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Sall Grover: "The Birthing Parent" · The Slippery Slope

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  Hi. So on the 18th of August 20 22,
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  I had the privilege of talking with cell Grover.
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  She's the founder and creator of the giggle app here in
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  Australia. Sell had a lot of very
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  interesting. Interesting things to say, we're
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  talking about the birthing parent issue that came up here
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  in Australia and all the way over to issues in Hollywood with
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  sexual assault. The conversation went for quite
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  a bit. So I decided to Cut the cut the
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  episode up into four different parts.
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  So this is part one. Thank you for listening to the
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  slippery slope. Hi, I'm Jay felon, and thank you
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  for listening to the slippery slope.
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  So today I have the pleasure of welcoming cell Grover on to our
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  program. Sell thanks for joining me on
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  the slippery. Slope thank you so much for
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  having me. I I was very interested after I
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  read the story, about what happened with you after the
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  birth of your child and what happened with with the whole
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  birthing parent thing. However, like I was talking to
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  you once I started reading more about you thought.
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  Wow, there's a lot. Listen, there's a lot more to
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  you than just birthing parents, you know, incident and all that.
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  And and obviously I'd love you to talk a bit about everything
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  or all that as well. But yeah, if we can give you can
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  just tell us a bit about yourself and yeah.
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  Yeah. Well, I mean, if you Googled me,
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  probably seen, I'm like some transphobic bigoted racist,
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  who's just like out to destroy the world, which couldn't be
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  further from the truth. But anyway, this is the world we
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  live in. So basically, just in terms of
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  to put the context into the birthing parent thing.
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  So yeah, I had gone to hospital. Obviously, to have my baby and
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  then a few days later like It's still in hospital had to sign
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  the. They gave me the form for to put
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  her on my Medicare card. And that was the form that said,
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  birthing parents name and birthing parent signature.
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  And there's brings all these reports was like, new mum,
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  outraged, and they know I don't walk around, but actually
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  outraged and angry with me. Come on.
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  No, I did a massive. I roll is what I did.
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  I was just like, oh, you've gotta be kidding me.
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  Because, and the only reason really is because I'm so tapped
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  into To the gender ideology stuff that is happening that I
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  knew where it was coming from. Okay.
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  Say to everybody had the form just said parents name and
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  parents signature I wouldn't have flinched because that that
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  is just normal language and it would have been completely
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  appropriate because even if in this sort of you when you go
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  with birthing parent there that's their way of saying
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  mother this like ideological way of saying mother to not
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  apparently offend anyone would actually offends ninety percent
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  of mothers. Um, and it's like, so I guess I
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  knew it was ideological and it actually isn't inclusive
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  language, which is kind of, my whole point is unlike with the
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  form of putting the baby on a Medicare, boom, boom, your
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  Medicare card. It could have been her dad that
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  signed that form. Like why did it even have to be
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  me, you know what I mean? Yeah, and I was so he was
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  excluded from it but beyond that you've got adoptive parents It's
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  gay dads. Who are adopting a baby?
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  Where's their form? There's a lot of, like, sort of
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  the critics of me went. Oh, what about surrogates?
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  And I'm like, yeah, the surrogate isn't putting the baby
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  on the Medicare card. That's a carded, the whole
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  thing, the surrogacy is it they give up all rights so that's
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  just not happening. So I just don't didn't buy the
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  excuse that. It was inclusive and so I just
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  did a tweet about it because I tweet about this stuff.
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  I've been Tweeting. But the stuff for three years, I
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  mean, I've been taken. I've had a human rights
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  complaint against me. I've had an attempt to take me
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  to federal court for gender identity discrimination.
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  I've tweeted all about that. I've spoken out in the media
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  about that. And no one has cared and
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  suddenly the birth of a tweet got traction.
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  And then, so the Today show, I think it was asked me to be on.
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  I was like, yep, no problem. I'm happy to talk about this.
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  And after between do like, after doing that, 45 minutes, Later,
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  bill shorten announced that it would change and I was just it's
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  a the Today show called me back. And it, can you come back on
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  because Bill shorten is changing.
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  And I'm like, what do you mean? Something's happened.
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  Like I didn't even tweet it thinking that anything would be
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  changed. I didn't do it for that reason.
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  Like I, there was just nothing behind it.
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  Other than to be like, oh, look what's happening?
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  And then, so from there, I actually found out that the,
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  this particular form was a trial form and it was only being
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  trialled in 3 hot, It was apparently in the whole country.
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  And so I just imagine these gender activists going, like,
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  oh, we've almost got it. Like no one's complained.
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  You're gonna get it actually changed.
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  And then, like the loudest critic of this in the country,
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  just happens to give birth in one of the three countries.
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  One of the three hospitals in the country and they just like
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  all that don't pay. We almost got away with this and
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  then I came along which good I'm like, please, that they changed
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  it because it is, Ellis. As I said, if they were like
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  announcing that we're changing the form to say, parent.
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  So it's inclusive of any possible person who would be
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  signing that form on behalf of a child, I would go.
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  That's a great idea that makes a lot of sense but you put the
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  word birthing in front of it. And I say no.
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  Yeah it's ridicu because that is ideological stupid language that
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  pleases what? One of the 55 men apparently who
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  have given birth in the last few years, in Australia, good for
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  them. Yeah.
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  Okay. Listen.
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  I do the program from a from hopefully from not just not just
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  my perspective, but from a Christian, a Biblical
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  perspective. And when you're talking about
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  men, giving birth, I've got because when you when you start
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  to drill down into it all but the first I remember there's a
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  few on me a couple of months ago.
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  This big headline come across the news and you know man gives
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  birth. I'm like what?
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  What the flip is going on here? What do you mean?
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  Give and then when you read all about it, okay, but you read all
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  about it, okay. So it's a yeah, you know, so
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  it's a woman, it's a woman who thinks yes Beth.
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  No. Yeah.
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  And one of the things I will say is that trans men who are
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  female, they actually only really ever make the news when
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  they've had a baby. It's really the only headlines
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  you ever see about trans men. You ever see like trans men
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  promoted to CEO or trans. Man wins award or trans man wins
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  this particular sporting event and does something great there.
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  No it's always Transit and had a baby which means that everyone
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  in media knows exactly who they are their female and they
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  treating them accordingly. It's interesting, you say, like
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  coming at it from like a Christian biblical perspective.
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  So I'm myself, I'm not religious.
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  But my boyfriend is it's one of the black we have, we completely
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  sort of Current in that respect. I'm atheist and he is not oh
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  well yeah he's quiet he's quite religious actually.
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  So in terms of that perspective of what where you're coming out
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  of I think he comes at read it from quite a similar Place.
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  Yeah I've because I'm looking at it thinking.
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  Okay. Obviously I believe what the
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  Bible teaches God, created The World, God created man and woman
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  in his own image and this this outrage that You know, that that
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  somehow makes it that women that the Bible doesn't look at women
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  being equal, when in reality, women and men are equal
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  absolutely. Well in the Bible, as far as I
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  can see. That's that's what it is.
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  But this, but they have different roles.
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  And one of the roles that men will never be able to achieve is
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  giving birth no matter how much we try and change the outside
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  and how much damage we do to the outside and one.
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  Yeah. And there's things that women
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  can't Not do no matter what you do.
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  I mean that is just put is just absolute.
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  Basic fact, I mean it went beyond it being like biblical or
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  anything. It's just in reality it is you
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  can see it with your own eyes that there's some things that
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  women can do that men, can't and there's some things that men can
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  do that women. Can't, it's like, say with the
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  sporting issue when we see that women aren't as fast as
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  physically strong as men. It's like, we don't love that,
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  that's the case. I think the world would we be
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  slightly better if we were physically all like equal and as
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  fast as each other and blah blah blah like you know they've it
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  could be a great thing. It's not and we deal with the
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  reality the hand that we are dealt and we go along with it
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  like and it's been one of the sort of I found a hate to use
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  the word offensive, but sometimes I've just another word
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  escapes, you but offensive things in this process of being
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  told in the last month that men give birth Earth and men have
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  had babies and whatnot. I'm like, yeah, it was I didn't
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  actually enjoy being pregnant or having a baby, it was not the
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  highlight of my life. I love now that she's here and I
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  would always say it's my boyfriend's.
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  Like this is a means to an end to give a gift.
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  Yeah, and so when I hear this menu can give birth, I'm like if
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  he could have done it I would have let him.
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  It's not like we flipped a coin and I lost and so I had to do
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  it. I was the only one out of the
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  two of us who could Yeah, it's it's just I find it.
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  I think that the people who are going to go out there and say
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  that men can have babies, or we have to use language, to include
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  men, giving birth, and all of this nonsense, I'm like, you
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  can't then go and claim that you have a problem with any kind of
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  fake news or other misinformation.
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  It's going out there because you're putting misinformation
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  out there. Like there is just a huge y-yeah
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  to tell people. It's not