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12: Giving Without Expectation w/ Andrew Stein · Harder Than Life

• 0:00
  I'm Kelly Siegel and this is harder than life a podcast about self-love self-awareness business and health We tell outrageous stories and boil everything down to simple practical advice. You can start using today. Let's get living
• 0:15
  Welcome back to the Heart of the Life podcast. Today's guest is an angel. He has dedicated his life to serving others. We met for lunch because our companies do business together and talk forever going way over time. I hope the feeling is mutual that I made a lifelong friend. Andrew Stein is the president of the Children's Foundation in Detroit, Michigan, and a true definition of a leader as well as living an aligned life. Welcome to the Heart of the Life podcast, Andrew. Thanks for having me, Kelly. Great to be here.
• 0:43
  This is take two. So I'm super excited. We try to do it remotely over the snowstorm and, you know, the universe. There are no coincidences. And I love your energy. And I'm so excited that you're here today. It happens to be Good Friday. And the traffic was light and we got to be here and we get to be in person. I got to tell you, I don't know what it is about you, but I love you. And
• 1:07
  the new president, CEO of the foundation, and we're going to do great things together. So I'm glad you're here. Thank you, Kelly. Yeah. Glad we, glad we did this in person. Changes the energy, changes the dynamic. If this conversation is anything like our lunch, you know, get ready. You might be in for like an hour and a half long podcast, folks.
• 1:26
  I love it. You got the DJ voice. It's the best. So your backstory is inspirational, motivating, and literally moves my soul. I am ecstatic to share you with the audience today. Please tell us a story on how you arrived in Michigan to be here today.
• 1:41
  Yeah, so I'm from Michigan, born and raised in the Detroit area, grew up in the suburbs in Franklin, Michigan. Everyone knows the cider mill there. You drive into Franklin, there's the sign that says the town that time forgot. But family goes back in the Detroit area four or five generations.
• 2:02
  Growing up here, I always thought of myself as being from Detroit, but I think I had an impression of the city as a place that you would go for your job, or you'd go for a sporting event, or go to the theater. I grew up in a little bit of a bubble, to be honest with you. Went to Country Day pretty much my whole life, so bubble within bubble in many ways. Great education, feel very privileged for the opportunities I had as a kid.
• 2:31
  I say that the grand irony of my life is that in high school, you had to have enough community service hours every year in order to be able to go off campus for lunch. You know, drive to Tel 12 Mall or whatever for lunch. You had to have done a certain number of hours of community service. And my senior year of high school, I couldn't go out to lunch because I hadn't earned my community service hours. And it wasn't that...
• 2:55
  Wasn't that, I didn't think doing service in the community was important or value it. It's just, I was 17, 18 and I had other priorities, other things that felt important to me at that time. Anyways, went on to Michigan State, loved my time in East Lansing and then was finishing undergrad and, um...
• 3:17
  Didn't know what I wanted to do with my life. Everyone had told me since I was probably eight or nine years old that I should go to law school. Because I usually had an opinion on things and I was a pretty good writer. And I think to the people who were telling me this, family, friends, you know, being a lawyer was...
• 3:34
  That was something you could be, right? So I always had in my head that I guess I'll go to law school. But I was coming out of undergrad and I really didn't want to go to law school. So I started looking for just other things to do. And I started by looking at the Peace Corps, right? Lots of people know the Peace Corps. But the idea of moving somewhere in the world, totally unknown, committing two years felt a little daunting, right?
• 3:59
  And it was, I remember being in my apartment in East Lansing and I was watching TV and I saw this advertisement for something called City Year. And it was a 30 second spot on Comcast Cable that had Dr. King and JFK and all of these historic and inspirational figures.
• 4:22
  for this thing called City Year, and I didn't know what it was, so I Googled it, and I went to the, I don't think I Googled it, because this was, you know, 2004. I probably asked Jeeves it or something like that, but anyways, went to the website, learned a little bit more, but not so much, and then I get an email from Michigan State saying, hey, this organization is going to be on campus doing a presentation.
• 4:43
  The same, wait, wait, the same organization? So City Year was going to be on campus that next week doing a presentation, and it happened to be in the classroom where I had class, and it was right after my class ended. Wow, there are no coincidences. So literally. It's like the Facebook or the social media algorithms through TV.
• 5:02
  This was pre-algorithm, but, you know, they say in marketing you have to hear things a certain number of times. Well, I got hit. I see this TV ad. It prompts me to go to the website, and then I get this email from the university saying someone's going to be on campus doing a presentation. And all I had to do was remain in my – well, I had to go to class, first of all. And then I just had to remain in my seat after class ended. So I did that. Wow.
• 5:24
  And a woman walked in, her name's Nicole Yates, still friends with her today. I had no idea who she was or why she was walking into my life at that moment in 2004. But she came in and she did a presentation on City Year. And what it is was it was a call to young people to say,
• 5:44
  come do a year of service. What would our country look like if every young American served their country in some way? You can join the Peace Corps and we've got needs all over the globe that you can go help work on. You could join the military and serve in the military, but there ought to be something domestically where young people can do a year of service to help build and improve communities right here in the US. And what if every young American had to do that? People from different backgrounds working side by side
• 6:14
  to help build a stronger country. And it just totally got me at that time. And I said, I'm not going to law school. I'm going to go do this. And so I moved to Washington, DC, did this for a year. And that is what has set me on the trajectory that I'm on now.
• 6:31
  So in case the listeners haven't picked this up, this man is dedicated to service to others. And, you know, if you've listened to any of the podcasts, you listen to any personal development people, that's what this is all about. Giving back. The more you give, the more you receive. And I just, when you sit in a room with this, with you, you just exude it. And like I said, at that launch, I could just feel it.
• 6:50
  feel and this is a successful person in all aspects of life. Your family, if we're gonna get into it, we're gonna get into the family and everything you do. It's just, I'm honored to have you, to call you a friend and you just live life the right way. So what does service to others and gratitude mean to you? Yeah, that's a great question.
• 7:18
  I think I approach, you know, you just mentioned, and we talked about this at our lunch, you know, the idea of giving, right? And giving without expectation of anything in return. And, you know, I grew up Jewish, and the Jewish word for charity is tzedakah. And there's actually different...
• 7:38
  levels of sadaka and each one is more meaningful than the next and and and the and the deepest highest form of sadaka is giving to someone that you don't know with zero expectation in return
• 7:54
  And I think that's how I try to approach relationships is one, I'm genuinely interested in people and curious. And I think that's why we sat for so much for as long as we did at lunch. Well, I'm the same way. I just I wanted that I left there and I'm like, if we didn't have meetings after we would have probably been there all afternoon.
• 8:11
  Right. But, but as I'm listening to people, I'm, I'm thinking of what's a connection point for me or how might, how can I help this person? Is there someone I can introduce them to? Is there a book I can recommend to them? Is there, you know, what is our connecting point and how might I be able to make a deposit into what they're doing? Not usually, almost always not with any thought of what am I going to get out of this? But just knowing that, um,
• 8:41
  If I give to others, it'll come back in some way. I love it. You're a mirror to me. This is the Harder in Life podcast, and you seem to be making life look easy, as I just said, but it hasn't always been the case. You lost your mom and your grandmother around the same time. Tell us about that and what you did to cope. Yeah, my mom, I don't have a big family, and I'm,
• 9:09
  I was in Washington, D.C., moved out there in 2004. I ended up spending 11 years there, right? Got married. We had two of our now three kids. Moved back to Detroit in 2015. One of the biggest reasons was because we wanted to be closer to family, right?
• 9:27
  And my mom was here. And that's really, she was at the heart of family. And having kids around their grandma was a big priority for us. And I was lucky also to have her mom alive, so my grandma. And we got five years with my mom, with my grandma. And then November 2019, my mom got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer.
• 9:55
  worst form of cancer you want to have. And it's one of those, you don't find it until it's too late.
• 10:03
  But my mom had beat cancer once when I was in high school, and she's one of the healthiest people I know and could deal with anything. So, you know, I'm going with her to doctor's appointments. We're figuring out a treatment plan. She gets a first round of chemo. I think this was late December, early January. So now we're into 2020. And go get some results, some encouraging signs that, you know, things might be working.
• 10:28
  Uh, and then March, 2020 hits and COVID hits. I just thought of it. Did she, you didn't get to see her when it, when it happened. So, uh, my mom got COVID in late March, early April. And, um,
• 10:45
  We didn't know what that meant, right? We're obviously scared because this was first couple weeks of the pandemic. Well, a week or two goes by and she's fine. She had a little cough. She felt a little rundown, but otherwise fine. But she keeps testing positive for COVID, which at the time no one understood clearly.
• 11:03
  why that was. In retrospect, we know now you can have COVID, not be contagious, not be symptomatic, but continue to test positive for months, even though you're not, you know, don't actually have the virus and aren't going to transmit the virus. Well, at that time, nobody knew why this was. So we were calling doctors from Seattle to Germany to try to understand, is it safe for someone to restart chemo? Yeah.
• 11:28
  if they've got COVID and there were no answers because this was all so new. Eventually, you know, the disease took over because we weren't, we weren't able to get her back on the chemo regimen. And then may 2020 lost her. And it was the last few months. Couldn't, couldn't see her. She, my wife was nine months pregnant with our third kid at the time. So, you know,
• 11:56
  Did I want to go to the hospital and see her when she was in there? Absolutely. Did I want to come and see her at her house when she was able to be home and not have to sit on the other side of the room? 100%. But what I knew is that if I walked over there to give my mom a hug or I walked into that hospital to go visit her when she was there at the end and she saw me,
• 12:18
  knowing that I've got a wife at home that's nine months pregnant with her grandson and she thinks she's got COVID. It didn't matter how bad she was. She was going to get out of that bed and she was going to kill me. Right. That's a Jewish mother. I tell you, um, your story just keeps getting better and better and better. And, and,
• 12:38
  It's called the Harder Life Podcast is overcoming hard things. And because, you know, adversity is part of life. We learn when things get hard. Pain is the portal to happiness. And there was a lot of pain there. So it's well documented, you know, my toils with alcohol. Yeah.
• 12:58
  Why didn't, how were you, talk about the coping mechanisms and skills and habits and the daily winning rituals that you use to not slip. I mean, and you had a lot of things thrown at you, Andrew. You could have just said, oh, I need a drink. And tell me about that. And I'm sure some of it had to do with your loving wife and your kids. Yeah.
• 13:18
  There's a lot of people that have that and still choose to drink and take drugs and numb. And I get it, man. It's normal. Everybody does it. So talk about your habits because I want everybody to know you're not alone when times get tough. Tough people, or wait, tough times never last. Tough people do. Yeah. Yeah.
• 13:39
  A couple things. One is, and I get this from my mom, I am pretty even keel. I am married to a 5'1 Sicilian woman who is the exact opposite, right? Her emotional range is up and down, and I'm just kind of hover right around the middle. So I'm blessed with a constitution that kind of keeps me just putting one foot in front of the other.
• 14:06
  Um, the other thing I'll say is, uh, well, we had a baby a week after my mom passed. So that was an incredible salve to any pain we were feeling, but it also could have, but it also could have been overwhelming in terms of just those emotions. Right. And, and, and the lack of sleep. One thing that, that I, I will never forget is that.
• 14:27
  I had never really experienced loss like that when I lost my mom. And the outpouring of notes I got from people, texts, emails, calls, posts on Facebook, whatever it was, from unexpected people, it all stuck with me. And it changed the way that I have...
• 14:47
  responded when I've seen other people dealing with loss or dealing with their own stuff. You know, sometimes you'll see something on social media or you'll hear about someone lost a loved one or someone's, you know, just got a tough diagnosis. And you think, you know, yeah, I know them and they know me, but they don't really need to hear from me. Like they're dealing with their own stuff. I haven't talked to them in 10 years, whatever it is. But it's actually notes from those type of people that
• 15:14
  almost meant the most to me because I knew I was going to hear from those that were in my inner circle, but hearing from others, Hey, I lost my, my dad or et cetera, uh, just was really helpful to me and changed the way I've thought about how I will communicate with people as I see them dealing with their own stuff.
• 15:34
  Ah, you're remarkable. This is so good. I am shaking because my relationship with my mother was just the opposite. And I love love and I love to hear about strong women doing strong things. And I'm trying to raise a strong woman. She's 14 and thinks she's 30. So we have to get our kids together, it'll be fun. But I love hearing that story. And I'm sorry that, but that
• 16:03
  that rollercoaster, you have the most influential person in your life
• 16:08
  pass away and then boom, here comes, which child was born at that time? Yeah, so I have three kids. I have an almost 13-year-old, an eight-year-old. So girl, boy, and then we had a boy June 2020. So literally a couple weeks after my mom passed. A freaking roller coaster. His name's Caleb. He'll be three in this upcoming June. So with?
• 16:38
  God giveth, God taketh away. Exactly. And it's just, I find it ironic that here we are, two Jewish men, on Good Friday, which we all know what Good Friday is. We just came off of Passover. Some say that the Last Supper was a Passover Seder. And...
• 16:56
  Did you have a Seder, Kelly? Yeah, it was long and arduous, man. We had a good time. We were at my uncle's house, and it was full of love. I don't know. Things are different these days, Andrew. I'm just not the same guy I was a week ago. I wasn't the same guy that I was years ago. It's just life is... I keep saying this over and over. It sounds like a broken record. This isn't a dress rehearsal. This is a real deal. And I'm finally in my life...
• 17:22
  living it and just loving it and connecting with people. I've loved people for a long time, but I was afraid to give love. I was afraid to receive love and I was afraid to share my feelings and what was really going on. And then I miss out on connections like this and I'm not going to do it again. Yeah. Um, and we're going to have, we're going to do some big things together. I, you know, I want to plug, uh,
• 17:44
  May 6, too. And we're going to do more. We're going to keep talking about it because we've got to keep repeating it. May 6, talk about it's a great, great time. I've won every single year. You have an event for the Children's Foundation coming up. Talk about that.
• 17:58
  Yeah, so I started a couple months ago as the new president of the Children's Foundation, and we support kids' health and wellness in the area. And one of the big projects that we helped put together, really spearheaded in partnership with some really generous families and organizations in town, was,
• 18:16
  was the opening of what's called the Adolescent Addiction Recovery Center. So this is going to hit home for you, Kelly. This is a space in the Children's Hospital in Troy. So if you know that building on Big Beaver, it looks like a big Lego block. There is now a new clinic that is in that space that is specifically for young people who are dealing with addiction challenges and substance use disorder.
• 18:44
  And so, you know, prior to the opening of this clinic, there really wasn't anything like this in this community. I think of the people that I knew growing up who were dealing with substance use challenges. And, you know, if your family had resources, you were looking at places in Arizona or out in the mountains or even, you know, out of the country, Costa Rica, stuff like that. And I don't.
• 19:09
  I don't even know the cost to send your kid to those sort of treatment centers. But if you didn't have those resources, there really weren't a ton of options in this community. You know, you could go to your pediatrician, but they don't know how to handle these situations. So now this clinic is open.
• 19:27
  And it's run by a psychiatrist who is from the Detroit area, but was living in Colorado. And addiction is his area of expertise. And so he's back home with his wife, his kids. This is his dream, is running this clinic. It's open. And because of the philanthropic commitment of the Children's Foundation and our other partners who have come on board to fund this with us,
• 19:53
  It's free to anyone regardless of insurance status. And so May 6th, because I want to get to the event, May 6th we're doing our annuals called Derby for Kids. This is a fundraising event, the day of the Kentucky Derby. It's at the Country Club of Detroit.
• 20:10
  I'm going to have 500 people there. This is going to be my first year. What I've been told first and foremost is this is a fun event. I've met the planning committee. There's no doubt in my mind this is going to be a really fun event. But more importantly, it's raising the money that's going to support this clinic so that it can be open for any young person who's dealing with substance use can go and get the help they need.
• 20:36
  Well, I've been to every one of them and they're fantastic. I'll be there. It is a great event. The link to buy the tickets will be in the show notes. We're going to air this rather quick to make sure that we make awareness of that. And yes, it does hit home. You saw me shaking right away. I grew many of my friends from high school or all childhood grew up and are addicted to something or have passed from said addiction.
• 21:00
  there is no resource i grew up in south warren we're very very very poor so it is an honor to hear that and what i love specifically is did you say there was a therapist run by a therapist or a site would you call it so sorry it there is a psychiatrist so so there's a doctor there and then he's got a therapist who specializes also in addiction so he sees kids as does the therapist they've got a great office manager and then you know
• 21:26
  as they grow, they have the capacity to add more therapists and see more young people. So it's well documented about my overcoming addiction, poverty, violence, what the book's called, Harder Than Life, by the book, by the way, just plug. How I was able to do it was overcoming the psychoanalysts of what was bothering me that made me drink.
• 21:51
  It's not, you're not addicted to drinking, you're not addicted to alcohol, you're addicted to numbing whatever childhood trauma that you have. And it's good to hear that they have a therapist and a psychiatrist to address that, because that's the root of what addiction is. So if anybody's listening to this, you know, this is a very good cause. Please get involved. And I've never shared this in my book, but...
• 22:19
  I walked in on my dad shooting up. And that's, you would think that I would've learned my lesson, my dad eventually passed away from drugs and alcohol. You would think I would learn my lesson. I can, when I say that, I don't, I remember walking in, I was maybe 10 years old, and I was tiptoeing in the house to be quiet and to surprise my dad, and boy did I surprise him. You know, you don't ever wanna walk in and see a needle in someone's arm, nobody's arm, that you love.
• 22:46
  and it gives me the willies thinking about it right now. So when you tell me that there's a way to, the three, obviously your charity is one of the charities that the Heart of the Life is going to donate to. Our goal this year is to donate $150,000, $50,000 to each charity. Two of them are children's charities. One of them is yours. The third one is an addiction center as well. So,
• 23:08
  You're tugging on my heart, and I love that, and you have our full support. NTM has traditionally donated and sponsored. We will do the same this year, and we will be there, and we're looking forward to it. What is the most exciting three minutes in history? Yeah, the Derby, right. It's funny because you go there and you eat and you're having a good time. Everybody's dressed beautifully and everybody's smoking cigars, and it's just a great time. And then the Derby goes off and it's done in three minutes.
• 23:34
  Yeah. The thing I'm stressing about, Kelly, is the dress, because everyone keeps telling me, look, I don't own a seersucker jacket. I don't wear a bow tie. I don't have a hat. I wear, my staff has gotten to know me the last couple of months, and they're like, look, Andrew, you cannot wear gray, blue, or brown to this. Buy something with a little splash of color.
• 23:59
  Well, go see our friends downtown Birmingham. That's where I got Kachini. They're great. They're great. I have some great. I usually wear some fancy colored suit. All these events. I'm going to try something crazy. But let me say one other thing, because since this clinic opened in November, and I think your book, your podcast is also helping. One of the biggest issues around substance use is stigma. People don't talk about it.
• 24:27
  it affects so many more people and families than people realize. And since this clinic has opened, the number of people who have reached out and said, my son, my daughter, my niece, my nephew, my brother, my sister, whoever is dealing with this issue and this clinic really means a lot. Whereas before they just...
• 24:53
  wasn't talked about, right? There's a generational shift happening, but it's also, it's you, it's your book. It's saying, look, this is a clinic for people dealing with addiction. It reduces the stigma and makes people realize they're not dealing with this alone. We have a family and a partner at the foundation called the Jamie Daniels Foundation. So this is Ken and Lisa Daniels and their family lost their son, lost their son to a family.
• 25:22
  to an overdose and it was, you know, heartbreaking. And they turned their pain into action. They've created this fund at the Children's Foundation to support substance use. So they're one of the big philanthropic partners that have committed to, to making this clinic a reality. But they are so brave in getting up and talking about what happened and telling Jamie's story. And that then gets other people to realize that.
• 25:46
  The more we talk about this, acknowledge that this isn't something that, you know, that it's something that affects so many families and that, you know, there's a way to turn your pain into action to prevent this from happening to the next family.
• 26:01
  Well, it doesn't go away. So I'm going to go on a rant for a second because that's why I created this. This literally is to create awareness. The first chapter of my book is self-awareness. If you are asking yourself questions about why things are happening to you and you're taking substances, it is unhealthy and you need to get help. I'm available. I get messages every single day.
• 26:24
  I love that this gives me more resources. I would love an introduction to the head person. So we'll have them on the podcast. But there are resources. You are not alone. You matter and you're loved. And that's why I'm so glad you're here. We're going to have some fun and raise some money for a very good cause. That is such a good cause.
• 26:45
  I plugged that a little bit in between and I stole our next question because we were talking about it, but I'm going to go back to it. There's so much talk into the world today about emotional intelligence and,
• 26:57
  Being able to respond and not react, which we're all guilty of, especially me. You quite possibly might be the most even-killed person I know. I literally wrote that to you, by the way, before you said it. Before I said it, yeah. What's your secret? I don't know. I don't feel that way with my kids. I'll tell you that.
• 27:19
  Hold on a second. I'm going to steal. My daughter can trigger me faster than anybody else in the world. She, I dropped her off at school yesterday and I said, I don't know what's going on with you, but I'm feeling all your negative energy. And I said, if you walk into school, I said, I love you. But if you walk into school and you start, people start treating you bad at the point of this morning, it's your energy. And she looked at me and she's like, I love you so much, dad. And it's just like, I don't know what's wrong, but I'll figure it out. And so it's all a part of this. So tell me about your kids.
• 27:46
  Oh, so we got a daughter, like I said, almost 13. I mean, how do they trigger you? Oh, how do they trigger me? How are you not even killing emotionally intelligent? Put your shoes on. Put your shoes on. Put your shoes on. Put your shoes on! Right? I couldn't see you yell.
• 28:03
  Wait, wait. So a lot... I read an internet amount like you do. And a lot of what people recommend now is that we kind of stop being the hover parent. And I'm not saying that's hover, but constantly pushing them so...
• 28:18
  I have to tell my daughter, and she's going to kill me when she hears this, to take showers. She's 14 years old, and she doesn't fully think she's going through the body changes. Baby, you need to shower. Baby, you need to shower. And then I went, you know what? I just didn't. I didn't do it. And then her face broke out, and I looked at her, and I said, you realize this is because you didn't shower.
• 28:37
  And you just got to let them kind of experience and feel their way through life. Yeah. And let them, you know, you're not going to let them hurt themselves, but you let them fall. And all too often, you know, we don't, I definitely don't want my daughter to have to go through what I went through. What I went through was horrible. And I'm not trying to, oh, woe is me. It's just, it was horrible.
• 28:58
  I get to relive my childhood through her. So I am a little bit more protective than I want to be. So I've been trying to back up. So tell me how... Well, here's what I think my issue is. Because yes, I'm even keel. And yes, that helps me in some situations. I can...
• 29:16
  I can handle tough information and process it and respond in a way that's non-reactionary. And that, I think, helps me out in the world, in the workplace in some ways. But, you know, it comes with wanting things around me to feel calm and in control as well. And then you put three kids in an environment and it's anything but. It's chaos, right? And a Sicilian woman? Right. Yeah.
• 29:45
  So I try to be mindful of that. You know, I'm big on mindfulness and being aware of how I'm reacting and how I'm feeling. And I remember reading a study right around the time my oldest was born where they asked people in their 60s, 70s, 80s to reflect back on their lives and identify the times where they felt the happiest. Yeah.
• 30:10
  And then separately, they asked them to reflect back on their lives and identify the times that they felt the most out of control, chaotic, weren't sure about what was going to happen, just anxious about their life, out of control of their own life. And what they found is that those two periods of time overlapped almost entirely. Wow. Right? So these times where...
• 30:40
  The kitchen's a mess. The kid's stuff is everywhere. You're telling one kid to do their homework, the other kid to take a shower, whatever it is. It actually isn't going to get any better than this, right? And so you think you're just trying to manage and get through, but to what end? Like, it's...
• 30:57
  It's not going to, this is the best time of my life. And I try to remind myself that, that I'm, I'm going to, there's going to be a day where I actually miss all this chaos in my house. So try to have an appreciation for it now. And I see so many, you know, cause I'm not that much younger than you, but I'm a little bit younger.
• 31:18
  But I've got all my friends are with kids, you know, two to ten or so. I was the first to have kids. So my 13-year-old is a bit of an outlier. But I see people who are just trying to manage. And every time I'm with them and I talk to them, how's it going? The answer is, oh, we're so busy. Oh, yeah, what's so busy? Soccer and swimming and sports.
• 31:46
  dance class. And I'm like, okay, what else? Well, you know, there's work. And it's like, they're just describing their life. But what I see them doing, and I know I do this, but I try to be aware of it. So I'm not doing as much. It's like, life is not something to just be managed. Because what are you trying to get to, right? Like, you got to have some awareness at the moment. Yeah. We're a race to death. Right. Let's make some sense. And embrace it. So I...
• 32:16
  When I'm feeling like I'm out of control with my kids, I try to remind myself of that, but it's not easy. You know, that's why I call it harder than life. You got to be harder than life. What you're really saying is to be present, and...
• 32:29
  And then I always say that you get to, you don't have to. I get to take my daughter to dance every Monday. I get to take her to school every day. I get to pick her up every day. I'm lucky that NTM, my IT company, allows me the freedom. My leadership team allows me the freedom to be able to do that.
• 32:49
  I love that. Just that little language shift in your brain and how that then probably changes how you feel when you have to go do that stuff.
• 32:59
  And I also say things, I have a full day. I don't say I'm busy. I have a full day. And every day is full. But I love who I'm becoming every single day. And every freaking day, Andrew, I am learning something, and I'm loving something, and I'm enjoying the process. And it's just day-tight compartments. Yesterday is yesterday. I can't do anything about it. All I can do is good things today to win today and do it tomorrow. And then that's how you build a great life. You know it. You're doing it right now.
• 33:29
  I'm trying. I don't know. All right. You just teed it up. I got to ask you. I'm going to skip down a couple of questions. Define happiness then. Oh, man. That's a tough one. It's for you, man. It's just what you think. There's no right or wrong answer because there really is no true definition. It's what you think. And believe me, if you're winning the way you are and you're happy, this is happiness. Yeah. I mean, professionally, I feel...
• 33:59
  I feel happy when I know my work is tied to something meaningful and I know that the people around me
• 34:11
  are really excited and happy to show up to work and feel that same meaning, right? I am unsettled. If I think that there is someone that I'm working with that doesn't like their job and is, is dreading, feels really low Sunday at five o'clock because they've got to go to work that next week. And if I send someone's feeling that way, I am like, have this insatiable need to try to,
• 34:36
  Help them. Oh, we got to deviate. I'm going to cut in. What have you... Because I can tell that you care and you have compassion. That's the word I'm looking for. Compassion. Like I've never seen before. It's remarkable. You're amazing. What have you found? There's always...
• 34:54
  a correlation. There's always a common denominator. When someone's upset, we talked about somebody before, we don't want to entertain names, but usually one of the four agreements, which was the books that we've talked about is don't do anything personal. It's never usually work.
• 35:11
  Have you found a commonality, something that has shown up with a person who has, in all of your career, it doesn't have to be where we're at now, just have you seen something that's come up time after time where this is happening and it creates a problem with that person at work? I don't know if this is the most common reason, but I think this is a reason that doesn't always get talked about at work, which is that...
• 35:39
  Sometimes people just don't want to be doing their job anymore, but they don't think they can bring that up with their employer. Right. And because they're scared of what that might mean, but when you can open the door and you say to someone, Hey, I, how are you doing?
• 35:55
  I'm okay. Yeah. You know, so to notice, don't seem to be yourself or, and then you start to ask them like, what do you want to do? And they feel comfortable about being able to talk about their own career ambitions or their own life ambitions that maybe are separate from their current place of employment, but they have that trust and they feel that security to be able to talk about it. And then you learn, okay, this person really is just,
• 36:23
  really wants to go back to school to do something totally different or has sort of hit the end of their road with this current position and doesn't necessarily see something else for them there, so they've been looking. And then you say, great. You don't kick them out the door. You say, let's talk about how we can help get you where you want to be. Again, just looking for opportunities to give to people. So I don't know if that's the most common thing that will be.
• 36:50
  That's fantastic. What you said was be vulnerable and have the tough conversation. We're, I don't know where it got the, Oh, I'm going to fire you. Right. You don't want to be here. Good. And they get out, man. I don't know. Hey, look, I got a newsflash. Even on the best days, I kind of want to be doing podcasting. I really like this connecting. I love my it family. I crave being around them, but I love this. And, and so I'm going to start working where I'm doing that lesson, this more. Um,
• 37:18
  we have that conversation, but we're extremely vulnerable at ATM. So vulnerability is cool, man. And really, if anything out of this pandemic that may have come, we are talking together.
• 37:31
  Maybe it's not so productive, but we're at least communicating. I think we need to be a lot kinder to each other, and I think be truthful and be vulnerable because when there are outstanding leaders like you, it's safe. It's safe to come to Andrew and say, hey, I really want to go and work at the Troy Addiction Center. Can you help me get there? And the answer's gonna be, heck yeah.
• 37:58
  You know, let's get you happy because that's really fulfilling your dream, helping someone fulfill their dream. Oh, that just gives me the willies, the butterflies. Right. So you just keep getting better and better.
• 38:12
  All right, we're going to dig into some personal things because we've gone there. There's a big buzz around boundaries these days. It seems as if the definition of a healthy boundaries is convoluted. Share one business non-negotiable and one personal. And see what I did there? Boundaries and non-negotiables. They're also known as standards. So we kind of talked about it, but dig into that a little bit deeper. Like what?
• 38:38
  When I read that letter that you sent out to introduce yourself, you laid out a standard of excellence. You laid out what is tolerated, what's not. Talk about that. And then also talk about it with the kids and the family too, because you really do have everything balanced. You are giving me way too much credit, but I'll take it. So you're referring to...
• 39:03
  It was the Friday before I started in this new job, and I didn't know. I had met some of the staff members, but I didn't know most of the team that I would be meeting that following Monday, and they didn't know me. And I just, on a whim, a week or so before, just started working on what I titled a user manual.
• 39:25
  And it, I think at one point it was, you know, three or four pages. I trimmed it down to one or two, but it was, here are some of the essential things that you ought to know about me. First of all, showing my own vulnerability. I was just going to say vulnerability. See, you are.
• 39:41
  Practice what you preach and you drink the Kool-Aid. Showing my own vulnerability, trying to establish, and this is my number one non-negotiable, is trust. That is my highest value, personally, professionally.
• 39:57
  It is the foundation on which everything else is built. And I said to the staff in this user manual, I sent them the Friday before, which probably freaked some people out in retrospect. Some people probably liked it. I loved it. I loved it.
• 40:14
  That's where I got your mother and your grandmother. You know I read it. You did. But I said trust is my highest value. I said I'm quick to give you my trust. I recognize that others aren't as quick to give their trust back to me, so I'm willing to work for your trust. My favorite line, by the way. Yeah. Because it's true. It's very true. And, you know, I...
• 40:37
  I'm a white guy who grew up in the suburbs, right? Like I have existed in a world where I can walk into situations and trust is, I don't know, I don't, my privilege has allowed me to live in a world where I've been able to trust people because
• 40:58
  things have turned out, right? Like in the way that I thought they would. But if you live in a world where promises are made and broken by family, by community, by society and the systemic factors that treat different people differently, which is inequitable and unfair, then you're gonna grow up and trust is gonna be harder for you to give, right? Tell me about it. So what I said is,
• 41:29
  violate my trust and I'm always going to give you a second chance. But third chance, fourth chance, if I don't feel like I can trust you, then that's going to be really hard for us to have the relationship that I want to have, whether you're someone I'm working with, whether you're a board member or a donor of ours, or whether you're someone in my personal life. And so I say that to my kids all the time, just number one thing,
• 41:55
  Tell me the truth. Mine is, so this is why we connect so well, because mine is honesty. Yep. And it's the near cousin of truth. And it all stems together because, you know, we can fix anything but death. And I can't fix anything when I don't know the whole story.
• 42:13
  And I don't even know where to start. Yeah. So I hate dealing with things without the facts. But yeah, just tell us the truth. And the truth hurts once. A lie hurts forever. And then sugarcoating it doesn't help anybody. Right. That's so good. Now, you got to be careful. I did this once with my son where I noticed this heat. There was just this really bad, almost cave drawing thing.
• 42:40
  dug into a piece of wood on our wall in our, in our home. And I knew who did it. And I asked my middle son, Damon, Damon, did you do this? No. Damon, did you do this? No. Damon, don't lie to me. I'm not going to get mad. Did you do it? Yeah. I did.
• 42:58
  I can't believe you did that. I violated his trust, right? Like I asked him to trust that I wasn't going to get upset. And then I didn't honor that. So. But the inverse of that is true too. Somebody feels like, oh, I told you the truth. So I should be forgiven. No, we still have to be held accountable. It's true. I trust for me, you would think with my upbringing is it would be the hardest thing to earn for me. But I, I feel like you, you have to give it to get it back.
• 43:27
  And people say, you know, you're silly for trusting. Look at their track record. And I have formed some very, very deep friendships with people that have never been trusted before because they haven't given it. So they were given it unconditionally. And then I, that's why I have so many friends. I have friends of all different walks of life and people like, why are your friends with that? He does this. And I don't have that relationship with them. Yeah. We have a different relationship because I come at it with eyes wide open, trusting him. Now, you know,
• 43:56
  Somebody breaks that trust two and three and four times and I'm the same way. It's okay with this. This is, I'm, I'm good to walk away, but there's no other way. You know, I, it's faith over fear. Why? If you go into it fearing, it's going to happen. Right.
• 44:12
  So why not go in and say, hey, good things are going to happen. Let's do these things together. And I'm going to tell you right now, watch out because miracles happen. I'm excited to see the team, your team, because your predecessor was amazing. He kind of let people do their thing and soar where they want, where you're going to, it seems like you're kind of bringing everyone together and building an even stronger unit. Yeah.
• 44:38
  a team, so to speak, a family. That's one of my core values, family. I didn't have a family, man. The people that I was supposed to trust violated that trust over and over to the point where they tried to kill me multiple times. It's amazing that I do trust people.
• 44:55
  But I just found when I was with a chip on my shoulder and didn't, I didn't get the results that I got now. I get now. And I would never be able to have you here connecting with you. And man, we're going to do some things together. I got to meet this family. What gets you down? And then when you get down, what gets you happy again?
• 45:23
  I can be brought down by, like I will look at a situation and analyze it from a hundred different angles, right? And I'll take risks, but I wanna know what those risks are to the best of our ability. Like I'm not a, I'm definitely a look before you leap, right? And this applies to everything in my life, like a big work decision or,
• 45:51
  a product I'm going to buy, right? Like I don't buy something unless I've researched the hell out of it, which is kind of annoying at times. But I like to understand, like, you know, I like to look at things from, from, from every potential angle, but once we, once we decide we're going to do something, thinking mostly in a work setting and we know the risks, there are risks in everything we do, but we know what those risks are. We've talked about them.
• 46:18
  let's just all go at it. Right. We've got maximum input. Now let's get maximum unity. I am bogged down when people will just continue to bring up the, but what about, but what about, but what about, and yeah, no, no, no. We've let's get that on the table. But once we've got it on the table and we figured out, okay, that might be an issue we hit, but we still think this is worth pursuing. Um,
• 46:44
  then we're good. But to continue to... I am bogged down by people who are... It's constantly glass half full. It's constantly, but what about the risk? No, that's actually glass half empty. Glass half empty, sorry, yes. And then...
• 47:00
  I think probably the term for that is just like cynicism. I think I'm bogged down by cynicism. I swear I think you're my little brother. Where did you come from? I feel the same way. And we run EOS at our office. And I say, let's focus on the 80%. 80-20. So all too often, the what ifs and the naysayers and the things that they were are 20%. And really, most of the time, it's 5%.
• 47:28
  So let's focus on the 95 that we know is going to happen and let's not worry about the five. And that's got us on track and I keep reminding them and keep reminding them. And you'll hear me say this all the time. I put the bumpers up like in bowling. Put the bumpers up. We're going to stay right here. We're not going three lanes down. We're going to stay in our lane. And EOS provides us a structure of that.
• 47:52
  Some people are just nervous. And for me, you grew up with lots of love and lots of trust. For me, I grew up with no trust and no love. But I have persevered and I trust myself emphatically. I know if I make a bad decision, which I will. I know I make a lot of them. I trust my team and myself to make the decisions to get us out of it quickly. I'm not going to throw...
• 48:18
  more capital or anything towards a bad decision. I'm good at cutting my losses and moving to the next thing. And it's going to happen, especially if you're taking risks. Yeah. So that's, we just keep teeing these things up and realizing that how similar we are. So I love this. And this is, people are going to get gems out of this. This is,
• 48:37
  You know, if you're that person, you want to just look deep and figure out where in your childhood you were second guessed and know that it's this fixable. So define success for me in your words. You know, I think I decided...
• 48:57
  few times in my career that, you know, success to me is satisfying basic financial needs is, is, is important, but it's not my measure of success. Otherwise, you know, I would have, would have never walked the path that I'm on right now. Um, success for me is, is,
• 49:16
  really feeling like I'm waking up every day with a purpose and that that purpose is worthwhile. It's the type of thing that I'll be able to look back on in my career and feel like, yeah, I spent 40, 50, 60 hours a week, Monday through Friday, doing something that wasn't just about me and then being able to do that along with people. I could never be a solo practitioner of anything. It would...
• 49:44
  I would be drained, right? Like I, I'm an extrovert. Every personality test I've taken, I, I get energy being around other people when I'm on my own, I'm in my head too much. And I feel like my energy level is dipping. So, um, you know, doing meaningful work with other people is successful to me. You know, if, if, if,
• 50:11
  If people look back on the three, five, 10 years that we worked together and, and they can say that was among some of the most meaningful work of my life. Well, that would be awesome.
• 50:23
  The introvert versus extrovert conversation, we're going to have another time, but I always find that very fascinating. People think, oh, if I get in a situation, I get drained, I'm an introvert. I don't find it. I get, you know, energy is expended when you're in rooms and whatnot. I was at the Tigers game that last night, opening day, and afterwards I was exhausted. I must have shook hands with 550 people. You know, I don't go out much anymore, so I was out and about and...
• 50:51
  Saw a bunch of old friends and good friends and it wears on you, especially when you see people drinking and a little bit excess, it just that wears on me. So I hate to see suffering. Suffering is optional. Pain is inevitable. But suffering is optional. I hate to see people suffering. Gosh.
• 51:16
  Almost 100% of it is self-imposed. It's in your mind. You said mindfulness. So sorry about that. I know the answer to this. And we're about to land the plan. Grant, we're going a little bit longer because this has been just so good. If you had all the money in the world but still had to work, what would you be doing and why? Giving it out. I'm so, this is.
• 51:41
  this new role for me is so exciting because, um, you know, we get to support good work in the community that's helping kids, whether that's, uh, research happening at children's hospital, that's helping kids who are dealing with cancer, or it's a really great afterschool program that is going to, is going to help the kids who are participating, put them on a, on a,
• 52:08
  Give them a little more confidence, a little more resiliency. Have them feel like they've got a mentor in their life, whatever. Those little ways that you're going to help kids reach their full potential regardless of the background they're coming from.
• 52:23
  And the fact that we get to resource that work because it all takes money to happen is such a dream position and privilege for me. What I think makes us, you know, the Children's Foundation is different than...
• 52:39
  some of the other big foundations in town, right? We're not the Gates Foundation. We're not, this is not one individual or one family that has made their wealth and now created a foundation. This is a, the Children's Foundation is made up of hundreds of, no, actually thousands of individuals in this community that have,
• 53:06
  contributed their capital towards kids health and wellness and so and and we get to be the stewards of those resources to guide them to make the greatest impact on kids so this is it's it's making impact it's it's helping work on the ground but it's doing it in this way where i get to bring along
• 53:28
  those with resources to help them realize the difference that, that they can make and hopefully find some meaning and, and, um, and intentionality around their, their own giving and, and,
• 53:43
  One of the things that you're going to see, and it gives, I'm, you know, NTM and Kelly Siegel sponsors a lot for, for you. And we, it's, it, this isn't a normal charity. This isn't a normal nonprofit. Every single event is fun. The summer recess party is one of the best parties.
• 54:01
  I wouldn't miss it for the world. It is a group of everybody that comes together for that cause and everybody's happy. We've all been to these charity events and it's a silent auction or an auction. I mean, literally, they are there to separate you from your money.
• 54:19
  These events are everybody coming together to have fun and just doing it for a good reason. So I highly, it's an early plug, but summer recess, I believe it's going to be at the M1 concourse again. Best time ever.
• 54:34
  I went last year and had a blast and, and it will be there this year again. Again, May 6th Derby for kids. I'm also going to say one time to May 23rd, you have to go to Dunkin Donuts, get an iced coffee. And for that day, you're going to go to Dunkin Donuts.
• 54:52
  you everything's being donated to your organization yeah huge shout out thank you to all the uh the dunkin donuts uh stores in the area if you buy an iced coffee on may 23rd so hopefully it's a warm day the proceeds of that are going to go to uh to the children's foundation so
• 55:09
  And you can hear what they're doing great things. You know, I do feel like we should give a acknowledgement to your predecessor, Larry Burns. I tell you, his leadership skills were phenomenal. And he, you talk about trust. A very dapper gentleman. I love him dearly. Enjoyed our conversations. I'm enjoying our conversation too. I just, it's just, just been an honor. There are no coincidences. I got referred by a friend to come in and here I am and, yeah.
• 55:35
  Larry Burns, you did a great job. You turned over a gem to Andrew, and then I expect you to do great things with it. No pressure. Yeah, exactly. Two more questions, and we're going to land the plane and get out of here, and these are fun. And I cannot wait to hear your answers. If you could create one law in the universe, what would it be and why? One law in the universe? Well, and how about you can make it in the country. How about one law for America?
• 56:05
  That we all had to follow. My uncle just said to me, he's like, why don't you start telling people when you're going to ask that? Because I don't ask it every time. He's like, you need to tell them because it's hard to think about it. Yeah, well, you know, there's the...
• 56:19
  There's the what's actually possible versus, you know, I get to wave a magic wand. I like the magic wand because it tells me about you. I know, but I'm the practical legal guy. So, of course, I think about what's practical. Honestly, if I think back to what I did at, you know, 22, right, and finished college and went and did city year and what...
• 56:39
  I spent a year working in the schools in Washington, D.C. on a team of 10 other people, and we were all totally different from each other. Different races, ethnicities, religions, sexual orientations, gender identities, where we were coming from in the world. And we found commonality and built relationships that, but for that experience, our paths would have never crossed. So it...
• 57:07
  I think we need, we have a major empathy gap in this world. And I think that is the root of a lot of our problems is that we don't want to support and uplift and help each other because we don't know each other. If...
• 57:26
  You're different, right? And there's tons of studies that show this. Like you are way more inclined to support a policy that helps someone with a disability or someone who's a member of the LGBTQ community if you can identify a specific person that you know is a member of that group, even if you're not.
• 57:44
  I know that. And so like when in the world, we all live in our own bubbles, right? And so when in the world do you interact with people? But when you do, the relationships that are formed make you a more thoughtful and empathetic person. So my law, my magic wand would just be that there are more opportunities where people from different backgrounds are forced to come together and like get to know each other and work on stuff. You just described my fraternity at Western.
• 58:14
  I grew up very, very poor, very distinct who I was surrounded myself with. And it was one, it was a poor chip on your shoulder person. When I went to college, I joined a fraternity and I met people from all different walks of life. And that was a culture shock. What you're saying is an absolute must. I take it a step further and think after you graduate, you should go travel the world and see how good we have it here in America.
• 58:44
  And then figure out a way to make a difference and give back and stop being so selfish. Now, do I think everybody's selfish? No. And I'm not saying self-care, putting yourself, your personal development and your peace first is not selfish. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying constantly stepping on other people and not advancing your being.
• 59:08
  Well, the older you get, your capacity for empathy goes down, right? Like kids, think of how empathetic a five-year-old is, right? We lose that over time if it's not a mental muscle that we exercise. It's society. We're putting it on them. You're right. A five-year-old is naturally empathetic, and then they become empathetic.
• 59:36
  hardened because of their their their surroundings their parents their social media now don't get me started on that so i i i think i heard you say like be of service and and be more empathetic so that's that's a good one i i always just find it simple just just you got to tell the truth yeah just it's make life so much easier
• 59:58
  Last question, and we'll recap the events that we want because this is going to air quickly. If you could have dinner with one person that is alive or dead, who would it be and why? You mentioned Martin Luther King. Yeah, you know. There's some of the great orators. I mean, there's some of the...
• 1:00:19
  I read all of Martin Luther King's biographies. I'm fascinated by him. I'm fascinated by Winston Churchill. To be able to lead during the war was just... Did I tell you there's a whole room in my mom's house dedicated to Winston Churchill? This is my... My stepfather has this unbelievable Winston Churchill collection that was here, there, and everywhere until he married my mom. And my mom organized it in his office in the house. So you walk in, and the first room there is...
• 1:00:49
  All Winston Churchill stuff. Anyways, if you ever want to go learn about Winston Churchill. I was fascinated with him because on his birthday, he woke up with a cigar and a scotch. I was like, whoa, love it. So again, dinner with one person. There's so many, but you know-
• 1:01:06
  You mentioned Dr. King, and it's an obvious answer, but we all know his speeches, right? But I would really be interested in what the other 95% of his day looked like and the blocking and tackling of community organizing. And I have a mentor who...
• 1:01:30
  is one of the people that helped taught me how to be an effective fundraiser in the nonprofit space. And he would always say, you know what Dr. King spent the majority of his time doing? Fundraising. You don't read about that, but like, you know, what was his approach to really get people
• 1:01:46
  motivated to give the resources that it took to organize the way he did and maybe picking his brain on some of those topics about how he approached the internal leadership of the civil rights work that he did.
• 1:02:02
  I just want to know how he got so positive. So when I read his, I read two of his biographies, I think it was two of them written by somebody obviously, and they, after every time something would happen, I'd stop and I'd say, well, how would I react to this? And his view was just, and then the way he would orate it was so eloquent. And I'm like, this guy mesmerizes me.
• 1:02:30
  You know, there's good people like that. There's, you know, Bill Clinton was that way. Ronald Reagan was that way. Matthew McConaughey is that way right now. The Rock or Dwayne Johnson is like that. They say things with energy and vooom. But his was...
• 1:02:50
  He is the grand poobah of everybody. The only other person I can think of is maybe Ed Milet. I mean, it's just so you can connect with everything. He says, no matter who you are, no matter what. I love that. That's a great answer. This has been absolutely wonderful. And I can't thank you enough. I want to, again, tell me the two dates. So they're in your words.
• 1:03:12
  Yeah, so May 6th is the Derby for Kids. That's our big event to raise money for the... That's at the Country Club of Detroit? It's at the Country Club of Detroit, yep. You can go to yourchildrensfoundation.org and find information about both the Derby and May 23rd. Get your iced coffee from Dunkin' Donuts.
• 1:03:30
  It's the best iced coffee anyway. So if you're an iced coffee drinker, find a Dunkin'. I will do a post that day to support. I will see you at the Derby for Kids. I love you. Thank you for coming in. And this is just the beginning of a lifelong friendship. Thank you.
• 1:03:45
  I want to remind you each and every episode is sponsored by National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with. Delivering peace of mind with technology every day. Visit TrustNTM.com for more information. And until next week, be harder than life. Thank you for listening. Please rate and subscribe to Harder Than Life. And let's take this to the next level. Get connected at the links below.