Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1065 - Being an ADHD Mum With Jane McFadden

Transcript

#1065 - Being an ADHD Mum With Jane McFadden · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: It's their Happy Family's podcast.
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  Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: once answers.
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  Speaker 1: Now, the ADHD experience is increasingly common and most people
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  Speaker 1: who are either going through it themselves or dealing with
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  Speaker 1: children who are.
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  Speaker 3: Diagnosed to finding it very very challenging. Hello, my name's
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  Speaker 3: doctor Justin Colson. Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. Today,
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  Speaker 3: my guest is Jane McFadden, a former psychologist. After studying
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: psychology and starting out working as a psych Jane decided
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  Speaker 3: to forge her own path. She wrote the first online
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  Speaker 3: psychology program for veterans with PTSD in twenty nineteen, and
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  Speaker 3: her business has grown to the largest psychology company in
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  Speaker 3: Australia in twenty twenty four. Jane continued, though, to battle burnout,
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  Speaker 3: stress and anxiety until she received an unexpected shock diagnosis
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  Speaker 3: of ADHD in twenty twenty two, and all of a
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  Speaker 3: sudden everything made sense, answered all the questions that she
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  Speaker 3: had about what was going on with her, and ignited
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  Speaker 3: her passion to help other women and girls avoid being
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  Speaker 3: misdiagnosed and wrongly medicated. Jane found ADHD medication life changing. However,
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: this medication unveiled autistic traits that led to be diagnosed
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  Speaker 3: with autism in twenty twenty four earlier this year. Currently,
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  Speaker 3: Jane is studying a master's in child and adolescent psychology
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  Speaker 3: to further understand your adversity, and began a podcast called
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  Speaker 3: ADHD Mums last year, which hit number two in Australia
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  Speaker 3: in just a year. Now, Jane works as a speaker,
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  Speaker 3: an author of neuroscientists and neurodiversity specialist. She lives on
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  Speaker 3: the Sunshine Coast just down the road from me actually,
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  Speaker 3: with a husband and three kids who all also are neurodiverse,
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  Speaker 3: and Jane joins me on the podcast today. Hey Jane,
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  Speaker 3: thanks so much for being here to talk ADHD, ADHD Mums,
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: ADHD Families and your ADHD experience. Really appreciate you being here.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for having me justin. It's always been
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: a dream to come on here. I was actually one
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  Speaker 2: of the first members of the Happy Family membership back
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  Speaker 2: years ago. I was in the first five.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: That is that's really really great. I'm so glad that
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: we're going to have this conversation and I'm really delighted
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: that Happy Families has been a part of your life.
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  Speaker 3: Tell me when it comes to neardiversity lived experience actually
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  Speaker 3: having the diagnosis, having kids with diagnoses, What does that
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  Speaker 3: feel like in a family of five where everyone ticks
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  Speaker 3: at least one of those boxes?
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  Speaker 2: Well, you know what. To be honest, I didn't realize
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  Speaker 2: it wasn't normal. And obviously normal as Air quoted, what's normal, Sure,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: but my experience of the world was that that was
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: normal behavior. So we always arrived in chaos, but it
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: was always exciting and fun, and I didn't realize until
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: my kids got a little bit older that there was
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: an issue. What really broke the camel's back for me
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  Speaker 2: was I was running two different businesses and my eldest
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  Speaker 2: child who had just hit prep and we all know
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  Speaker 2: when you have your oldest child hit prep, it's like
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: nothing other. It's the uniform and you've got to be
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: there on time and you have to have all the things.
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  Speaker 2: And it was the first time I was standing around
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  Speaker 2: with all the other mums that I thought, ooh, I'm
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: actually way off. Like I've always been a bit different.
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  Speaker 2: I've always been a bit march, but I've always made
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  Speaker 2: it work. And I really couldn't make that prep experience work.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: And so that was when I was like actually this
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  Speaker 2: is something beyond me.
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  Speaker 3: What's fascinating to me is you've got a psych degree,
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  Speaker 3: you've practiced as a psychologist, and you missed it. And
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  Speaker 3: this is a story that I hear all the time.
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  Speaker 3: We just kind of this is how I live, this
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  Speaker 3: is who I am. My life philosophy has always been
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: bite off more than you can chew and make it
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  Speaker 3: up as you go along, and that kind of fits
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: with that same kind of vibe. Right, this is just
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  Speaker 3: who I am, This is just what I do. And
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: then somebody says, are you aware? What was it other
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  Speaker 3: than the fact that your preppy was struggling and your
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  Speaker 3: family did not feel like everyone else's as you were observing,
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  Speaker 3: was that the only thing that sort of set alarm
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  Speaker 3: bells off for you? And when did you that it
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  Speaker 3: was actually you?
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  Speaker 2: This is a funny one, actually. So I was running
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  Speaker 2: to massive companies like massive, right, I had three kids
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  Speaker 2: under five, and I was having all the success in
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  Speaker 2: the world, career rise, financial success, career success, and I
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  Speaker 2: was getting all the accolades, which I've always received a
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  Speaker 2: lot of positive feedback for my ADHD traits. So again
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  Speaker 2: I just thought I was a go.
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  Speaker 3: Get up and can I just jump in here on this, Jane,
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  Speaker 3: because the whole idea of ADHD is it has to
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  Speaker 3: interfere with functioning right. Otherwise you don't worry about the diagnosis.
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  Speaker 3: If you can learn how to take those traits and
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  Speaker 3: use them in adaptive ways, then you don't get a diagnosis.
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  Speaker 3: You just a really high achiev or a go getty.
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  Speaker 3: You're a type an I can conquer the world, do
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  Speaker 3: everything kind of person.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, And so the feedback and the image I was
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  Speaker 2: putting on at the pickup was just this probably I
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  Speaker 2: feel weird saying it, but probably a really great person
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  Speaker 2: who seemed like she had it all together and seemed
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  Speaker 2: very success. The issue was that all the little things
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: were the problem. I didn't have the seesaw login, I
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: couldn't do the homework, I couldn't get her there on time.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: I never could figure out the uniform. And it was
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: all the small things which I usually avoid. So I
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: just get other people to do them, right, like staff.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: You get staff to do all that. But when it's
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: my child, I realized I actually cannot do this, Like
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  Speaker 2: this is a problem for me.
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  Speaker 3: Time to get a nanny.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, I dull my hands on my hands on mom,
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  Speaker 2: that's not the definition totally with you, totally with you.
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  Speaker 2: But yes, a few people did say to me to
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: just go and get a nanny. I'm like, that's yeah,
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  Speaker 2: but I have to learn, right, it's my oldest kid.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: I've got three. So in the background, I was having
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  Speaker 2: this huge battle with burnout unsurprisingly right, and I was also,
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to admit it, putting a lot of pressure
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  Speaker 2: back on my husband because I would bite off more
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: than I can true, and then I would look to
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  Speaker 2: him to support, like, well, where are you what are
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: you doing? And I did really have an expectation that
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: he was going to pick up the pieces and he
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: wasn't doing that because, in fairness to him, these were
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: my choices I were making. And he's like, I'm not
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: even in this thing. You know, you're the one who
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: stiff started to start a second company. And so we
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: went off to marriage counseling, and we went off to
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: marriage counseling. In my take on it was he needs
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: to he needs to put in, he needs to do
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  Speaker 2: a bit more, you know. And anyway, we did marriage
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: counseling for a little while with a brilliant psychologist, and
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  Speaker 2: I was really kind of expecting that he would say
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: to my husband, Hey, you know, maybe you could jump
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  Speaker 2: in a little bit more. And I was really blown
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: away when he wanted to pull me in for individual
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: because I was like, well, I'm not the problem, Like
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  Speaker 2: I've brought him in, he's the problem. And he really
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: zoned in on me and said I think you need
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: to do some individuals and I was like like, why,
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  Speaker 2: Look how great I am. And turns out he had
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: worked in an assessment clinic in Kobucher and after maybe
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: another three or four sessions one on one, he said
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  Speaker 2: to me, have you considered that you might have ADHD?
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  Speaker 2: And I said, my brother has that. Actually I definitely don't.
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  Speaker 2: And I was actually extremely offended because I had it
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  Speaker 2: in my mind that was unsuccessful people that couldn't achieve tasks.
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  Speaker 2: That's what I had in my mind, and I had
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  Speaker 2: no concept that it could be different. We went through
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  Speaker 2: the assessment criteria and I was saying him every step
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  Speaker 2: of the way, no, I know exactly where to be.
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  Speaker 2: I know exactly where to be. As I'm saying, I
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  Speaker 2: know exactly where to be, and on what day I've
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  Speaker 2: got it all down. I never missed anything. I have
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  Speaker 2: two phones on the table that are just alarming reminders
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  Speaker 2: and this complex system. And he's like, do you know
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  Speaker 2: what masking and camouflaging is? Because you are off charts
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  Speaker 2: with some of your basically your scaffolding it you're doing
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  Speaker 2: to mask all your symptoms. So he put my phone away.
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  Speaker 3: Just for people who are not familiar with the term
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  Speaker 3: masking and camouflaging scaffolding, can you step us through that,
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  Speaker 3: and then we'll go back to the story.
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  Speaker 2: Masking and camouflage with something I only learned of the psychologist.
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  Speaker 2: So basically, it's things that you put into place for
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  Speaker 2: yourself to mask your symptoms or cover them up so
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  Speaker 2: you make it look like you've know exactly what's going on.
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  Speaker 2: But underneath the hood there are so many complex systems.
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  Speaker 2: For example, I cannot ever remember to return something to
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  Speaker 2: somebody that I've borrowed, but I never want to give
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  Speaker 2: the impression that once it comes into my house I
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: never return it, So I'll put it on the car
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  Speaker 2: so then I can't forget it, or I'll put my
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  Speaker 2: keys on top of something. I'll have lots of complex
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  Speaker 2: systems so I look ahead.
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  Speaker 3: It's like a compensatory behavior so that you look and
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  Speaker 3: the brilliance about it. I mean, some people would say, well,
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  Speaker 3: isn't that just effective planning. Isn't that just making sure
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  Speaker 3: that you know yourself well enough to know that you
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  Speaker 3: have a certain weakness, and therefore you plan ahead to
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  Speaker 3: make sure that weakness doesn't undermine your ability to function well.
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  Speaker 3: When we move into things like autism, masking becomes a
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  Speaker 3: little bit more complex, doesn't it. Because you've got kids
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  Speaker 3: who will cover up their psychological distress with smiles and
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  Speaker 3: with happiness, and then they get home and they absolutely
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  Speaker 3: collapse and fall apart. And say, with ADHD kids, there's
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  Speaker 3: that level of masking where it's not just a behavioral thing,
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  Speaker 3: but it's a psychological thing as well.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And that was one of the things that
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  Speaker 2: I think was difficult for me as well, walking into
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  Speaker 2: prep and having to stand there with all the other
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: moms morning and afternoon, and everyone else seemed to enjoy it,
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  Speaker 2: and I enjoyed it sometimes, but most of the time
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  Speaker 2: I just dreaded it. I actually dreaded it. And these
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  Speaker 2: people are lovely, some of them must kill my friends.
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  Speaker 2: This is not about them being judgy, This is just
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: about being I don't actually have a capacity to put
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  Speaker 2: on this together front twice a day. Sometimes I can't
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  Speaker 2: do it, and I would actually beg my husband to
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  Speaker 2: go for me, and he'd be like, why the people
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  Speaker 2: are great. It's like they are great, but I can't
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  Speaker 2: do it today. I can't. I just and it was like,
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  Speaker 2: this is a logical response. I can't do that today,
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  Speaker 2: I just can't.
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  Speaker 3: Jane, take me back into the office again with the psychologist.
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  Speaker 3: You've been told that you're masking. You've been told that
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  Speaker 3: you're doing all of these compensatory behaviors to make it
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  Speaker 3: look like you've got it together, when really you're just
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: you're the proverbial duck looking calm on the top and
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: paddling like crazy out of the water. What happens Then
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: you're angry, you're upset. You think that he's kidding, but
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: there's there's a little alarm bell going off in your
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: head saying I think the sight's onto something.
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  Speaker 2: One of the things that I think is really interesting
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  Speaker 2: is when parents say they don't want to diagnose a
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: child because you know, they want to label them or
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: hold them back, or you know, like kind of like
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: paint them with a brush of you know, ADHD or something.
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  Speaker 2: But for me, when I agreed with him and I
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: could see what he was saying, I felt an enormous
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: relief because I had always wondered, what's wrong with me?
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  Speaker 2: Why am I so different? Why do I move states
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: every six months? Why do I go to balley without
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: anything to return? Why do I make these crazy decisions?
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Why do I open up Airbnb's and get these big ideas?
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  Speaker 2: And when he actually pointed it out to me, I
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: was so relieved because I had been diagnosed with all
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: kinds of things over the last twenty five years. I
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: started a mental health battle when I was fourteen, and
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: it has been up and down the whole time. So
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: when he said that to me, I rang my best
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: friend and her husband has ADHD and it has always
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: had ADHD, so since he was a child. And she
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: said to me, oh my god, that makes so much
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: sense because it was an answer for once, and there
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: was hope, there was medication. It wasn't. I was on
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: this just like kind of like mouse wheel, you know,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: where just where you're going around and around around, doing
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: the same thing over and over, attempting to have boundaries,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: not being able to do any of the therapeutic strategies
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  Speaker 2: as psychologists tells you to do, not be able to
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: ever figure out the executive function, and it felt like
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: hope for the first time.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: Jane, let me ask you when a parent and you
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: run a podcast and an Instagram and Facebook page called
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  Speaker 3: ADHD Mums. When a mum or a parent doesn't get
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: the help that they need, if they don't have the diagnosis,
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  Speaker 3: if they don't see the reality that's right in front
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  Speaker 3: of them, I guess that they're living with What are
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: the consequences of that?
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  Speaker 2: Well, for me, I haven't met anybody, and as I said,
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: I run a very popular podcast. I haven't seen heard
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: or received a message from one person that said that
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: they wished they didn't know, They wish their parents hadn't
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: told them. I've never ever seen that. And I think
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: if you don't want to label your child with anything
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: with any kind of diagnosis, they will know anyway, and
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: they will label themselves. And trust me, the label that
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: they give themselves will be worse than an actual label
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: with a diagnosis. For example, I'm not good enough, I'm stupid.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: I need to focus more the problem as well. If
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: they're masking all camouflaging sympto old traits. For example, let's
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: say you've got a child that won't put on their shoes. Now,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: my daughter in prep spent ninety minutes putting on her
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: shoes nine zero and I had no idea there was
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: anything going on. So I'm just going put your shoes on.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Why is it so hard telling her there was no issue.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: It was only after she was diagnosed and I realized
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: and I took the time to sit with her and said,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: what is it about your shoes, like, explain it to me,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: like I want to know. And she said, to me,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: it feels like glass. It feels like hurting me. It
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: feels like I've got splinters. It's hurting me. I can't
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: stop thinking about it. It makes me cry. And when
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: she broke it down, I thought, oh my god, I
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: can't even imagine. I actually felt terrible for just ignoring
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: her and actually a major sensory issue that she has,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: which I should have got the jetproof socks. I should
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: have got more help with this stuff, but I didn't know.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: So I think the connection with my kids has absolutely
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: changed since we have all become diagnosed and given therapy.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: And it's not about medication necessary, it's about understanding and connection,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: which is why I continue to follow your podcast even
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: when we were all diagnoance Justin, because connection first is
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: exactly the same for any child that's near at aversal
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: not it's still the first point for me.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: Jane McFadden is a form of psychologist and neuroscientist. She
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: is a mum of three and she runs the Facebook
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: page and Instagram page ADHD Mums as well as the
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: podcast ADHD Mums. You can find out more about her there. Jane,
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: thanks so much for chatting. Great to hear about your
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: story and to I'm sure that there are so many
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: mums who have got either ADHD kids or have their
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: own lived experience of ADHD themselves who are listening to
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: this going Yep, this is exactly what I needed to hear.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: This is reassuring, this is comforting, This is kind of
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: my story. So appreciate you taking time out to have
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: a chat.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me Justin.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rulan for
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Bridge Media. If you'd like more information about making your
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: family happier, check out Happy Families dot com dot au
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: and have a look at our new membership. We've revamped it,
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: We've revitalized it with additional new resources for not just you,
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: but your kids felt fostering emotional learning together is all
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: part of a new Happy Families membership online now at
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: happy families dot com dot au