Latest / The Bootleg Kev Podcast / #326 - Doc Wynter (President of Hip Hop/R&B Strategy For iHeartMedia & Program Director for REAL 92.3 LA)

Transcript

#326 - Doc Wynter (President of Hip Hop/R&B Strategy For iHeartMedia & Program Director for REAL 92.3 LA) · The Bootleg Kev Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Yo, what's up? This is Doc Winter from iHeartMedia. Check
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: me out on the Bootleg keV Show.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: That's not the plan, all right man, Bootleg keV Podcast
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: special guest in here. Mister doc Winner is here.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: So Doc.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: For people who don't know what's your title.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: I'm the president of Hip Hop and R and B
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Programming Strategy for iHeart and program director of Real.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Ninety two three is ninety two three Click up on
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: the mic, A little bit, A little bit on the mic.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: We gotta start over.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: No, you're good. You're good. So uh big title. You've
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: made plenty of of like the source Power thirty list,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: and you've I mean, you're here a very very important
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: guy in the music industry. I gotta thank you because
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: you've given me opportunity after opportunity.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: When we launched Real, I got a bunch of audition tapes. Yeah,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: to this day, yours was still the best.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That was like late twenty fourteen. I might have
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: sent that. I was in Tampa, yeah, and Whack one
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: hundred called me out of dinner with you and was like,
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: I'm with Doc Winner right now, I'm telling them about you.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: I was like, would you say yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: and so at that point in time, I called a
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: bunch of rappers and I was like, I need you
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: guys all to do a drop that says bring boulet
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: head to La.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: That was good man, and it worked. But I was
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: under contract. But it ended up working out anyway.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: So that's some real ship though, when you think your
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: man's gonna let you out your contract.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: I know when I asked, I tried to do it
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: the right way. I was like, guys, my dream job, please,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: And I think it all worked out, you know, for
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: the best time, for sure. For like you would originally
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: went to school for computers.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Right, computer programming?
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: What city are you originally from? Doc from Brooklyn, so
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: you're a New York guy.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: And then you know, Queen's playball went to college in Connecticut.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: It was a computer programmer home. He worked at the
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: college radio station. I sit in with him sometimes and
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: then one one spring break he asked me to fill
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: in for him. And you know, the assumption was always
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: from New York, so you can mix. You know, I
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: was a Catholic school basketball player, but I always fuck
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: with the radio. Loved radio, loved Frankie Crocker, bls all
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: that New York. Shit. Yeah. And so when I sat
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: in for that day I prepped my show, I cracked
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: the mic. And I don't know if you had that experience,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: but when I cracked that mic the first time, I
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: was like, wow, yeah, this is crazy. And it was
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: a college radio station that it was one of those
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: towns where the where the commercial station was on during
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: the daytime, but the college station was on at night.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: So some people did both. And this this chick named
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Jackie Allen, never forget her her brother worked actually at
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Kiss FM in New York at the time, and she's like, yo, like,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know who you are, but you should do this.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: So so you went from the college that you did
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: you finish your degree?
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was a computer I started working as a
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: computer programmer and worked at the college station at the
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: same time. And then I got a job at a
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: commercial station.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: What was your first commercial gig?
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: It was a new ninety eight FM in will Amantic, Connecticut. Wow,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: yeah it was. It was what market number is that? Dude?
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I have no idea. All I know is I would.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: I was a computer programmer, so I was I was
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: making a little money and so yeah, I think I
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: started a part time. Then I went to full time,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: and like it was tight then. Man. So I remember
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: one day going in with my my dinner before I
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: was about to go on air, put my big Mac down,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: went to the bathroom and washed my hands. Came back.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Somebody had taken a bite out of my ship. Yeah,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: because Jesus, it was tight like that. It was tight.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: What were you do you remember when you were making
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: an hour?
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I was it was making twenty something as a computer programmer,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: so I made I'm making more than the programs director
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: at the radio station, which was which was an issue
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: of course. It's actually an interesting story, like he basically
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: hired me to fill in overnights a weekend that he
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: was going to be gone. Back then, it was no
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: you know, you had to have somebody in a building
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: right at all times. And I'm thinking, I'm auditioning. He's
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: in another part of the country. But his wife was
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: listening and she was like, yo, like you need to
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: hire this dude. She ended up telling me the story
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: like a couple of years later, Craze, he wasn't even
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: listening to you, and I told him, like, yo, you
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: need to hire that dude. So but it might have been.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: It might have been five bucks an hour at the time.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: So you go from doing that, what would you say
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: was your first like significant break that made you kind
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: of be like, I can leave the programming job aside
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: and really pursue the radio thing.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: So from New ninety eight and Willamantic, I went to
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: w NHC in New Haven, which was like a AM
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: twenty four our radio station, and I was doing overnight stair.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I was working for Jazzy Jordan and I was doing
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: part time and my boy Bobby was doing mornings. He
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: was going on vacation and she asked me to fill in.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I was actually getting ready to go on vacation, one
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: of those things that radio people do, and she you know,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: sometimes it takes a minute for the things to kick in,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: and I was like, I need to cancel this vacation
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: and do mornings.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: So I've done that before.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: I canceled my vacation. I did mornings for a week,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: and then at the end of the week Friday, she
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: called me to the office and she was like, yo,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: how would you like to do it full time? And
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I was like, yo, Bobby's my guy, and that's my homie.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, that's business she wanted or not. And
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: I was like wow, wow seriously, And I was able
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: to I was able to talk to him before things
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: went down, let him know like no malice. And later on,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: once I got this position, I was able to give
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: him an opportunity. But so I ended up started doing
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: mornings there. Worked there for a while that I wanted
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: to see what it was going to be like to
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: work at Top forty radio, because you know, it was
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: a different thing. Yeah, black radio locally versus Top forty radio.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: So I went. I did Top forty for about a year.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: That's how I got into the company. I was the
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: black guy in the Top forty station. What shift was
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: I doing overnights on overnights and having the white girls
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: roll up on you at the promotions like mad when
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: they find out to g black. It was. It was
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: actually pretty hilarious. So that's when I ended up making
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: the trend, you know, like I got to let go.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: You know, my parents are Jamaican.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: That was for clear Water or clear Clear Channel Jesus.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: At the time. At the time it was it was
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: shake cor. It was actually Noble Broadcast Group and then
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: ja Core brought us. Then we later on became Clear Channel.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: But you know, my parents were lit man, They're like, yo,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: we went to school to be a computer programmer, Like
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: what are you doing.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: They weren't too happy.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Oh not at all. Like you know, Jamaican's like, we
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: don't do like we're like everybody in my family. I
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: got doctors, lawyers, judges like you know, our family. Like
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: they had a plan. We came over here, you get educated,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: you get a job, and so that was contrary to
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: the plan. But like I told my pops, like your dad,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: I think I can be really good at this. Yeah,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: and so once I got to this job ten years later,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: he was good. Yeah, he was good. He was good
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: with it after that, but initially he was a little
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: tight about it.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you've been a part of, like obviously some pretty
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: historical stuff in radio. You pretty much you did. I mean,
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: you signed on Real ninety two three in LA which
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: was a very crazy thing to do at the time
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: because there was a heritage station here that nobody would
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: ever really think to fuck with.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Also, you were very instrumental in the Breakfast Club.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Right I launched I launched Power, so you.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Launched Power one O five one. At the time when
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: you launched it, it was ed Lover in the morning
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: yep ed and doctor dre the other doctor dreep the
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: other one.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: And then we went through a couple of iterations of
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: morning shows. I think we Ticker was doing mornings at
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: one time. Then we had I think before that it
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: might have been starring buck while. Yeah, how was that?
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: What were those calls? You know? I tell everybody all
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: the time, man like, like he and I had a
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: great relationship, man like, there was never any malice between us.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: He gave people a hard time, but like me and
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: him were good manyeah Like. I remember he and I
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: having a conversation one time about how many times he
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: was used the N word on his show, because at
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: this time he was doing it like every two.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: Seconds, you say, like, hey, you got five now.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: I vaguely remember the conversation, but I remember him negotiating
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: it down to twenty five twenty five times a show,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: twenty five times an hour an hour show. It was.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: It was, it was, which is kind.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Of crazy because technically you can't say it on the radio.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Technically you can, but it wasn't an advertiser friendly term.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: For sure. You might have man and so I remember business.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: I remember he and I settled on that and then
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: you know it progressively got went back up to forty
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: and then you know, then those things ended crazy. I
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: don't ever want to take credit for the Breakfast Club
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: high because it was actually Cadillac Jack. I remember him
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: calling me and telling me, I knew who Charlemagne was,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: I knew who Envy was because of what happened with Starr,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: and I was aware who Angela was. And at the
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: time the show started, it was the very beginning of
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: PPM measurement. Early early PPM measurement. There were a lot
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: of misconceptions about PPM measurement, and the biggest bum was
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: that you should know if the show is a hit
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: within weeks.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Also for people who don't know what PPM is, it's
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: the it's a meter that tells radio stations their ratings exactly.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: It's a it's an imperfect system.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: And before that, it used to be a diary. So
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: you would get a diary and you would you would
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: write down what you thought you listened to versus.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: What you actually listen. Too much easier way to program.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: It, absolutely much easier way. So so the show started,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: you know, I remember Cadillac and I talking about it.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: I thought it was a great idea, but it didn't
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: hit as quickly as people thought. And we had done
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: something similar in Chicago with the Morning Show, and I
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: remember that Morning Show took a minute. So after a
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: few months when it didn't hit, I was called in
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: for me in New York and there was actually a
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: thought of maybe doing something different. And I remember after
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: a few months, after a few months, because that was
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: the misconception of the time, but I but there was
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: a chemistry between the three that was like nothing I'd
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: ever seen. And I remember being in a room with
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: them just kind of like, you know, just we're just
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: talking and just like man like if we could have
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: a this gets on the radio and we give it
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: time and we promoted it's gonna be crazy. I had
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: no idea would be what it became.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I know you fielded calls for stuff I've
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: said before, at least I know aos about artists. Have
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: you ever had to deal with blowback for like early
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Charlemagne stuff where they're like yo, and I know what
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: you know before real you were you're obviously based in Jacksonville,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: but like you're at the I feel like you're kind
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: of the face of like, yeah, who the industry talks
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: to when it comes to iheartshit on the hip hop side.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: You are that literally, So was there ever any like.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Always, always, always, especially at the very early different iterations
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: of Charlemagne. I think early on he was he was
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: raw raw, and so I get those complaints. Obviously back
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: in the day before Charlemagne's star was it was routine.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Man like NAACP would want me to come. I'm like,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I'm not coming in to me like nah, man, Like
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: if you took the show locally, I would always tell him, like,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: you took the show, you know what you got, like
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: you got to handle it, like I'm not flying across
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: the country and meeting with the you know, you know
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I did Nego College run INAACP every city.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Because of every city that that that was affiliate with.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: The show because they were hot, you know. So, But
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean there were there were, there were complaints.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: It's part of the culture.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: I just I'm just wondering if like, you know, you
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: look at your phone and like it says Ditty's calling, right,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: and then Diddy's like yo yo, doc was this is
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: fucking co by the way, that's just the name.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it still happens to this thing. Yeah,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: I mean I think some people think that that's what
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: we do. We set them up for the you know,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: to get the clip on on social media, which I
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: don't think you guys intentionally do. I think it just
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: happens sometimes. But yeah, but yeah, get them a lot.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Do you feel like because I do, I don't think artists,
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: at least even five ten years back, appreciate the radio
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: promo run like they used to, you know what I mean, Like,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of these younger guys didn't
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: necessarily break on radio and or understanding importance of radio
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: or do you notice that in terms of like certain
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: artists maybe not wanting to do you know, come to
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: the station or do a radio run or do like
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: a promo show or ship like that.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: Not a lot but some yeah, again just not well educated.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I think they've fallen into the fantasy of streaming, which
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't necessarily buy it, buy it all
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: that it's legitimate. I think if you want to be
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: a household name though, you want to be on a radio.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's away everybody. I say, look, you have a career.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: You could be big, you get, but if you want
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: a number one record, if you want to be a superstar,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: radio it's it has.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: To be especially markets like LA where people are always
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: in the car, like you know, and you know, people
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: always talk about, you know, radio's ability to survive. Man,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Like the best talent in the world is on a radio.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Like you know, you could, you could, you could put
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: on a playlist, but I'd rather hear you and James
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: talk about something and then play my favorite record or
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: you in Big or Breakfast Club or we just have
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of great talent on our stable and you know,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: I think they're gonna take us into the next that's.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Gonna say in terms of like obviously radio as an
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: industry is like shrinking in terms of like the amount
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: of bodies that are around, like like even like on
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: the record side, do you know people are getting let go?
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: It's it just it feels like more and more. The
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: if you think of like the UK and they have BBC,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: do you feel like eventually they'll be like some I
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: don't think they'll ever be like a BBC type situation
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: in the US. I just think there's too many companies involved. Yeah,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: but do you feel like eventually they'll they'll be something
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: similar where it's like, this is the morning show for
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: the US, this is the you know what I mean? Like,
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: do you feel like it's gonna get there or no?
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: I don't think so, because I think I think Big
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: makes sense for LA.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Right, I think did make sense for New York. He
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: was on ninety seven for a little bit.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: No. Yeah, I probably never told them this story, but
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: I remember my boss calling me and saying, Hey, should
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: should we do this? And I met Big, loved him,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: and I think, you know, growing up in New York City.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: I was like, No, it's a different vibe.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: It's cities that are.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Like that, Like he's one of the funniest, most talented
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: people I've ever met. Sure, and I mean that sincerely.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: But New York is just a different animal.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: And New Yorkers are. They want to hear New Yorkers
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: on the radio. They want to know you're there.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: They want to know, yeah, and you got to have
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: you know, it could be a little nasty at times,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: you know, and that's their expectation, and they deserve to
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: get what it is that they want, you know, just
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: like you should in Atlanta. You should in d C.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Say, what are some of those other cities that you're
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: like this this, you know this kind of needs.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Memphis is different, Memphis is Orleans is different, Jacksonville,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Douvall is different.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Tampa was like was like that. I remember being in
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Tampa and being like, I can't imagine, Like even the
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: morning show, who was on the top fortyes station was
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: iHeart station? What's the top forty?
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Guy?
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Who was over there forever?
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Bubba?
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, the top four the iHeart Top
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: forty guys based in DC, but he streamed in Tampa.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Caine, Oh, Caine, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can talk about
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: how can you talk about Tampa radio and not talk
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: about Bubba Sponge Yo shout shout out to him. He
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: actually worked for me for about about a month. What
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: station was it when I got to Jacksonville? He was
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: on Sunday nights.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Oh wild guy, Wild show dude.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Like one of my favorite stories to tell about radio
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: involved him. So he was on when I got to Jacksonville.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Only I was only programming w S O L initially
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: that's the Urban AC and my boy PoCA Lopez was
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: programming the beat. I remember one of our first meetings with.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Our boss at the time was Kevin Matheni. Kevin was
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: the power, not the power per Kevin was Howard Stearn's boss.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: If you ever saw the movie w NBC teaching them
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: how yeah, Pig Pig Vomiti was right. So Kevin was
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: my first boss when I got to Jacksonville. And so
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Paco and Kevin and I are having our first staff
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: meeting when I get to Jacksonville. And so Paco is
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: complaining about Bubba, you know, following directions doing whatever, and
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean I was Bubba. And so I
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: remember we're in the room and Kevin God rest his soul,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: like you know. I remember telling to telling Paco to
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: go get Bubba's phone number, and he threw something. He
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: do something at him, told him, you know, get out
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: and go get us something. And I was like, oh ship.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: So I remember while we're waiting for Paco to come,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I was like, man, keV, like, dude, did I ever
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: tell you I'm from Brooklyn? And He's like yeah. I
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: was like yeah, man, because honestly, like that pen, it's
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: coming right back at you, right, And I remember he
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: just turned right right. I said, Now I'm not trying
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: to be disrespectful. I'm just wired differently, like like that's
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: not gonna work for me. I remember him looking at
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: me turning bright red and we were good after that.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Never ever ever, but you know, it was like that
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: was my first time really like seeing that kind of
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: management style and.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Like old school radio shit.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, okay, yeah that does That's gonna
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: work for me. Though.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: I just heard like back in the day, man, like
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: I would always like guys like I won't even say
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: their names, but just I heard like way way back
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: probably even rock radio days, like used to be able
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: to like get your record on if you dropped off
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: like an eight ball of cocaine, like some of these
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: like rock pds in the seventies.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: You know, yo, man, it was it was a different
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: It was a different environment because when I got to
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: when I later became the PD of JBTNS well got
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: to remember Sol's on the urban adult panel and JBT
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: at the time was on the rhythmic panel, not the
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: urban panel.
• 18:54
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  Speaker 2: Let's get back to the interview.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: It's on the urban panel, of course, and JBT is
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: on the rhythmic panel. So I'd come from Saint Louis
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: at cam Jams, so I knew every you know, all
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: the urban people. So now I have this whole slew
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: of people that I don't know, most of whom are white.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: And you're talking about the record second. Yeah, yeah, and
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: it's a totally different vibe. I was. I remember Hitman Hayes,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: who's in he's in San Diego, San Diego now, was
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: my music director at the time. I remember walking to
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: his office one time to ask him and he's on
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: speaker and some dude is just like yelling at him,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: like you bet.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: You a record rep.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was like, so, I was like, ud, dude.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: I was like, you know who is that?
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: It was? It was a record guy, I said, And
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: he's talking to you like that? He said yeah. I
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: was like, hang up on him. He said, what you mean,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: I said, hang up on it? You got it? Yes,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: I just hung up on him. I was like, man,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: I don't ever want to hear you letting somebody talk
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: to you like that again. I'll fire you. You know
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying. And uh, you know, our relationship was
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: great after that. He still works in the company. He
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: was great, But it was just so different to see
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: how you know, the reps were different, and you know,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: it was great for me because I had an opportunity
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: to meet all of those people. And I've had relations
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: longstanding relationships with people on both sides of the equation.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: But yeah, even me, like when I got hired at Real,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: technically it was the first urban I ever worked at.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: You so obviously worked a tons of hip hop stations,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: but there's hip hop stations on the rhythm pattern, So
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: coming to Real, I'm beating all these record repst you
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: know I had before I never had relationship with a
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: guy like d I or you know guys exactly, and
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: it's like there's like a whole new group of.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Guys, and we should probably explain the whole idea between
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: rhythmic and urban correct.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: So for people who don't know, Hot ninety seven is
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: a hip hop station, but it's on the rhythm panel.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: So there's a rhythmic chart, yep, and there's I believe
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: around sixty stations that report to it, probably give or
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: take right. So Power one oh six in l A
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: that we're smoking in the ratings, Hot ninety seven in
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: New York. Those are hip hop stations that are on
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: the rhythmic panel. Got it on the urban panel. There's
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: a ton of stations on the urban panel, a lot
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: more stations right.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Typically, But there's a story behind that too.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what is that story?
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Story behind that is, let's just keep it real. Rhythmic
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: stations play predominantly black artist. Most of the jocks are white,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Most of the program directors are white.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: And out of touch and weird and cringey.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: I'm not trying it. I'm just I'm trying to just
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: know you're just the facts, listen. And so then on
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: the urban panel, most majority people are most of the
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: talents director directors are black, and on the record side,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: most of those people are people of color. So here
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: I am. I started overseeing the Urbans for the company
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and Around two thousand and three was
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: the first time we decided to launch Power in New
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: York and working with Steve Smith. Tom Polman was still
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: on Boss.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: That's crazy. Steve Smith helped launch that station. Yeah, and
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: he launched Hot ninety seven. That's my guy, all right,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: pe god rest of Soul.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And so then the conversation comes up and they're like, okay,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: so yeah, we're gonna put it on the rhythmic panel. Like,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: oh no, no, no, no, no, not me. Yeah, I'm
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: the head of Urbans. Yeah, black dude, New York City
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: is my city. I'm not putting a hip hop station
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: and putting it on the rhythmic panel. And they just
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: the conversation was literally about two seconds. And that's one
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: of the things about I loved about Tom to this day.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: See at the time, they're like, you're right, it should be.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: And so then fast forward fifteen years later, we get
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: ready to launch rear same thing to second conversation. Nope,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: I don't do that.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Like, so what they wanted you to run it at
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: on the rhythm panel? Yeah, oh wow, But that's jobs, man.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: You know, we create jobs when we put an urban
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: on it. For sure, Power is still an urban. We
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: created jobs when we put reel on in La same
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: thing in Houston with the beat, same thing in Miami
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: with the beat.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Same thing. But one of those things I know, for
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: me personally, was important for me to do, and it
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: was important that our company supported us because I was like, like,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: that's crazy, Like why would we do that?
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. And I always didn't
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: understand the This is like kind of getting into some
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: inside baseball, but I never really understood the lack of
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: urbans on the West Coast in general. Like I think
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: of a station like KMEL, right, KAMIL is an urban station,
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: but it's not. It's on the rhythm panel, you know,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: but it's like that's a It's like, is that the
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: I think that might be the first hip hop.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Station came out on the West Coast.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: I think it was the first.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: It might have been. I think I'd have to do.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: But it's just but yeah, it's some real radio nerd shit,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: but it's definitely like if you're an artist, right, and
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: like maybe you are because a lot of up and
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: cooming artists watched the podcast, Like you you've got to
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: kind of make a decision if you have a record
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: and you have a budget, which chart you're going to chase, right,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: So it's like I want to go to the rhythmic side,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: I want to go on the urban side. I'm gonna
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: go on the top forty side, and then you make
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: a decision from there.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's actually crazy because if you looked at
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: our playlist for real, in LA, we have rhythmic sensibilities.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: For sure, there's bad Bunny getting played, Steve Lacy got
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: For sure. And it's a function of our audience. You know,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: our audience here is predominantly Latino with some African Americans.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Then you know, you go to Atlanta, it's totally different.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: You go to LA, I mean, go to New York,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: it's totally different, different. And you know, usually the playlist
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: is a function of the diet that that audience was
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: fed upon. We're here and here in La, the diet
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: it was more rhythmic, right, and so as you put
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: a station on here in LA, gradually like when I
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: launched it, we launched it like it was an urban station,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: but gradually it's begun to take on. It's like its
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: own thing. Yeah, its own thing. Because of the feedback
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: from the audience.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say, like, obviously you've been a part
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: of launching two the I mean Market one and two
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: talking about Power one oh five to one, Real ninety
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: two to three each against the biggest heritage hip hop
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: stations in the country. I mean, what were some of
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: the bumps and bruises for each city, because obviously it
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: took you a few morning shows to land on the
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Breakfast Club. It helps if you're in LA and you
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: launch with Big Boy. Absolutely, what were some of the
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: bumps and bruises where you kind of had to like
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: cause again, like there's no rules for each city. You
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: got to kind of like learn on the fly. I'm
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: sure for each station that you launched, because you've launched so.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Many power Power was different in that, you know, I
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: was again, I was like two three years into the job.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: But I mean my team respected me. But I also
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: was the only black person and the only New Yorker
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: that was involved in the equation. So sometimes you just
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: gotta you gotta muscle your way in and like not,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: we're going to do it this way, right that way,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: because we're all type A personalities. And then once we launched,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: my mindset was I was going to bring different people
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: in from different radio stations that I oversaw to put
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: them on the air. Hindsight, that was a mistake. I
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: think it's got to be people from that city to
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: make it work because it's it's a local at least
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: predominantly predominantly Absolutely it's a local radio station, so it
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: should be people who live and breathe and eat and
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: sound like that city. And I think I made a
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: mistake then and not casting shit on anybody there, but
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: I think in the best interest to the radio station.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: And I think I learned that here in La like
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: you know, people got to be from here. They got
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: to be able to talk and sound and you know,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: and speak the language of the city. Launching with Big
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: was obviously a second cheat code, huge advantage for us.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't have done it if we didn't.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I think that people don't understand there would
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: not be a real ninety two three if iHeart hadn't
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: have now the Big Boy, it wouldn't have been worth
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: going against him.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: No, I didn't think we were going to do it. Honestly.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: I remember when we first when Tom first reached out
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: and said, hey, you know, I think this could be
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: the play. And this was like in twenty fourteen. I
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: think I had met Big in maybe two thousand and eight,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: when we were considering syndication with him and I'd come
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: out to LA and one of the things I knew
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: about him is he was incredibly loyal, super loyal, great,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: incredibly loyal. I'm like, unless they really really messed up,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: he's not leaving. And I never forget I was in.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: It was late December, might have been the first week
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: or two in January twenty fifteen. I'm in New York
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: in a meeting with fifty cent. Get a text on
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: my phone like, YO, we're ready to go.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Got it done.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: I gotta get on the phone. I got to negotiate
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: my new contract with my boss. Did that in like
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: five minutes.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: And because at that point in time, you're realizing you're
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: moving to LA.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have to let my lady know by the
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: way I think we're going to be moving to LA.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: She's like, let's go, you know, And I had to
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: excuse myself from that meeting with fifty. I'm like, yeah,
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: I got to get on the plane and go to
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: La tomorrow, go find a place to live and get
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: ready to launch a radio station. Then my next call
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: was the AO, who I had just made the PD
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: in Miami. Hey, I know you really really like Miami.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: Oh he really likes Yeah, it's legendary.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: He had an all night away.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Don't ever hang out with AO, He'll kill you. I
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: was like, hey, man't, why don't you come with me
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: to La. Let's do this, And he was like, oh,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: let's go. Yeah, yeah, that's my god.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: No, it's crazy because, like you said, like it was
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: like a very last from what I understand the whole. Well,
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: first of all, there was like a lawsuit right with
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: with involving Big leaving, right, So I remember you telling
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: me like, hey man, we're in the middle of this
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: legal ship with Big Boy. So if you're if you
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: got to you got to get out of your deal.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: They have to let you out. We can't Like, yeah,
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: I wasn't. I wasn't because I was like, dude, I
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: could just quit and then pop up in La. You're like, no,
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: not that He's like, this big ship wasn't happening maybe.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: But and big wasn't. Big wasn't the only one there were.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: There were a couple of people that I had I
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: had interviewed who I wanted to bring on a team,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: who were working in television, right, and they were of
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: the mindset, oh yeah, it can do a different medium.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: I could do both. I'd be like, no, you got
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: to get approval, Like, no, no, they're good. I already
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: spoke to him about it, and just like you when
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: they went hell, no, nah, not doing it, and they were,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: they were away, and I'm like, there's nothing we can
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: do about it. But I know for me moving forward,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: it was never again because in some instances, I know,
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: in one deal in particular, I actually said, Okay, let's
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: put the deal in front of you and then you
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: can take it to your boss, as opposed to you
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: getting permission fir us, and the boss said no, yeah.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: I had a meeting with some redneck guy from Beasley
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: and Orlando Love Orlando because he was like I told him, yes, yeah,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: it's like but we got to go sit with I
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: think I forget that. You know, those Beasleys are from
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: like a gust of Georgia or some shit, and the
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: guy was like, you know you're going to regret this.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: I gotta say you're number one right now. Can't just
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: let you go tie to iHeart poaching our talent. Yeah,
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: so it didn't work out. But it's crazy, Doc, because
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: you're in a position where you can really press the
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: button on changing someone's trajectory of their career, and I
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: know you don't take that lightly. I also know that
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: artists are very emotional. They're very emotional when it comes
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: to their art, and I've heard you just tell people
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: this ain't it, this is not I remember we had
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: a random I don't know if fetti Wap was there.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Somebody from three hundred was there when Fettiwap kept just
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: putting up duds, and I remember shot to fetti Wap.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: He just got sent to six years in prison. Free Fettiwap.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: But I've seen you like just you're a very blunt
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: guy when it comes to telling people about their records,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Like how hard is it to be? Like, I know,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: I don't want to spell any names or anything, but
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: you had situations where artists have gotten really emotional with you.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Top tier, biggest artists in the world pulled out a
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: certain situations for iHeart over just dumb shit. But like,
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: for you, how do you like? I guess tiptoe that
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: line where you're you're you know, you're you could be
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: friendly with somebody, you could look out for somebody, but
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: you know you're not gonna just yo, your record's getting
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: added on all these iHeart stations just because you're so.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: And so it's honestly sad in some respects because it
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: is the nature of our format. There are formats like country,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: where like they love their people from eighteen to seventy
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: five and they're going to play the record and country
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: artists and country are world absolutely, but it's a function
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: of that. It just happens not to be true about
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: our format. Our format is eighteen to thirty four targeted,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: and when you turn thirty five, you go someplace you know,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: you leave, and then that seventeen year old turns eighteen
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: and they come in and they have specific taste interest
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: and sometime you'll get it. You know, you'll get a
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: legacy artist who's done the damn thing for twenty five
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: years and one day it's over and you have to
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: tell them, and they don't appreciate it because they feel
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: like yo like and I get it. I totally get it.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: It's just it's just a name and every once in
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: a while they'll they'll they'll put one in that will work,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: but it's it's not it's the exception, not the exception.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Everyone's always one hit away.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Yep, especially with TikTok.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Do you have like a blacklist of artists who just
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: it's like a fuck you, like, like you've.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: Done a B and C.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: To me, the bridge is burnt. First of all, I'm
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: not saying you're gonna tell me who's on the list,
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: but is there a list?
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: First of all, I don't really have that because I
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: don't put that out. I have really good relationships. I've
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: had three really bad experiences. Three that's been bad. In
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: thirty five years, I've had three.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: One is an artist who will remain nameless, but he
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: was at that particular part of his career. I was
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: in New York at a party, having a conversation and
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: a drink with a very young lady, and Label came
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: over and said, Hey, so and so wants to say,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: what's up to you? So I get up, I walk
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: over to where they're standing and I'm immediately taken back
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: because of the stature of the individual. It was really
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: really really really really short, and I didn't expect. I knew,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: but I didn't know, you know, and you know, there
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: were some heels that were really and I was like wow,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: and then he just started going in. There was another
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: misconception that there was some national playlist that I presided
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: over it and that his music wasn't on it, and
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: he felt like I was the one, and I'm like, dude,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: like you're wrong. There there's no such list. It's just
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: your time is coming gone.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Like you if it's not a hit, it's not a hit,
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: and marketplace will tell me if I need to play
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: a ship.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. But he was I mean, he was living
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: and you know, I was looking down and like still
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: like like little dude, and his bodyguard was standing to
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: his right, and his bodyguard was like looking like he
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: just I'm waiting for you to say something wrong. Yeah,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: and if you know me, I just kind of like,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: all right, man, have a good night, just tur around,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: walked away, and he used to do like like I'm
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: not gonna sit here and have this conversation with you
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: because you don't want to have a conversation like you want.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: To write you have a you have an interesting relationship
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: with Kanye because I remember listen, I remember, well, no, no, no,
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: I remember because I wanted to ask you about this.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: There was one of those rants on the Life of
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Pablo Tour when Ye was like floating above the crowd,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: and in one of the rants I believe he was
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: in Sacramento or San Francisco, he mentioned your name specifically
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: in one of these like thirty minute Kanye rants in
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: the middle of his performance. Like, obviously, since then, you've
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: you know, you've seen Kanye. You know he's obviously I'm
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: not talking about since the you know, the current situation
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: he's in, but since that specific instance, like what do
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: you when you wake up in the morning, again, you're
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: the most mild mannered, cool dude, and you see Kanye
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: just went on a rant mentions my name, what do
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: you like, do you give a fuck?
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Or no? It doesn't pay my rent? I really didn't
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: give a ship. My mom was excited, my family was excited.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: You know, I got hit up around the country about it.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: But I mean not I don't even know what led
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: to that, because at that time. We actually had a
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: really good relationship and I would go and listen to
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: his album. Usually would grab big and go with him
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: listen to Big Boy and go listen to his album
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: and so. But but maybe he wasn't getting the feedback
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: from me at the time because it things that started
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: to change from him in the marketplace. But I don't
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: I didn't even know what caused the rant. But but yeah,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: I thought I thought it was funny.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: You know, so, how long has DJ Khaled called you Doc,
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Doc Winter, Doc Winters.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: To the point where I actually thought about changing my
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: name to Doc Winters since everybody calls.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Me it's always like everyone used to call Joe Budden,
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Joe Budens. It's like it's Winters.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: I think it's funny. Actually calls my god man, great
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• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Let's get back to the interview. So another thing I
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: wanted to talk about, doc, because I do feel like
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: we are in like a new era of just the
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: music industry. We talked about extremely, We talked about TikTok,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Like what would be your advice? I always tell artists
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: when they ask me, and you can tell me if
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: I'm wrong or not, but I always tell them to
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: worry about radio.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Last.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: To me, it's like the last peg of like, you know,
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: like if you're an up and I get hit up
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: by guys with ten thousand followers and they're like, yo, man,
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: I'm from fucking I'm from the city. Put me on
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: a real you know what. I like, don't worry about
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: me yet? Like, no, I think that's good advice. Yeah,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: I always say, worry the radio is the last thing
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: to come worry about, you know, developing a following, your fans,
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: you know, getting your shit off the ground, put an
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: album out something like, But what would be advice you
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: would give in terms of like just an up and
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: coming artist and how they should maneuver around getting on
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: the radio.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's no different from back in the day,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: where I think you have to create a story for yourself.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: Like back in the day, we would say create something
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: locally that I would probably say create something socially, you know,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: get yourself a buzz. I think you got to work
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: on your art. I think because you never know when
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: it's time to press play, and you got to be
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: ready to do business. And I always ask people like
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: especially after like you know, the first year, So so
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: how was it, Like, y'all, shit's a grind, Like, yeah,
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: it's not fun, it's work. It's work. It's work. You're
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: getting up doing these morning shows, doing these shows, and
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: you're trying to party and then you got to get
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: up and do shows like it's like not everybody's built
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: for it, you know. So that's my advice. And then
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: also handle your business because you may you may get
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: two albums, you may you may not. You should have
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: some licensing, some publishing to continue to take care of
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: your family. You may move into a different aspect of
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: the business. But I think you got to start looking
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: at it from that perspective because things can change.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: What about your advice for Listen, and I tell anybody
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: who asked me that they want to get into the
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: radio industry. For the most part, I say, I don't know, man,
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: time might have passed. Like, so, what if somebody's watching
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: this and their aspirations are to do radio. It's obviously
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: by the day getting tougher and tougher to crack because
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: of just the nature of our business, the economics of
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: our business. What would be your advice to somebody who
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: wants to get into radio.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Man, get yourself a podcast. Man, get yourself a podcast,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: work on your craft if an opportunity to presents itself.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: But but honestly, man, like, there's so few opportunities for
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: really to hone your craft. I think you've got to
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: be on the air frequently to do that. Podcast gives
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: you an opportunity to do that. But I mean, only
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: the stronger surviving right now. There's some incredibly talented people
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: like yourself who who are out of work. Then there's
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: some incredibly talented people like yourself who who have carved
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: a niche for themselves and now now they're on more
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: than one radio station. There's a lot of people outside
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: of radio trying to take multiple jobs. And I get
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: a lot of those meetings, and you know, sometimes like
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: sometimes I can kind of like throw it back at them,
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: like you do realize what you're asking me to do
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: is take twenty five thirty people's jobs and give it
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: to you, right, And they've never ever thought about it
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: that way.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like you're expecting yeah, like real people's lives.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Like honestly, because we really don't have to unless you know,
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: we needed to. But you're asking me basically to take
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: thirty jobs from people and just give it to you
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: because you know, you may or may not be more talented.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: But it's real, you know, and you know I take
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: that into consideration. It's not something I'll take lightly.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I feel like the days of like being
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: on the street team then getting a weekend shift, those
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: days are like slow. It's because I talk to a
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: lot of programmers and they're like, yo, just the talent
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: pool is kind of you know, it's it's kind of shrinking, and.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of good people out there's a lot
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: of good radio people. There's a lot of great radio people.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: There's not a lot of great radio people. And I
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: think there's a lot of great If they are great,
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: you know, from three to seven or ten to three
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: or whatever, they're not willing to fully embrace what means
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three to be a radio person.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: So anymore.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: And that's where I tell everybody, like any of these
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: young jocks that will reach out to me, I'm like,
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: you have to This is a full like, this is
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: not a four hour day job. You gotta be a
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: content creator. You gotta you know, blogging aside blog you know,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: because I know that's a big you know, if you
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: work at a radio station.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: One of most annoying things is I got a fucking but.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: Like, you have to be on your social you have
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: to build you You're a brand builder, man.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I love about my job,
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: and you know, I say this a lot internally. I
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: have like three or four morning shows on my team.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Got Big, I got Cruise, I got your show, and
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: we spent a lot of time early on I did
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: anyway explaining the science of PPM and how I thought
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: it would be the best way for you to garner
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: the most ratings. From a technical perspective, how you deliver,
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: when you deliver and stuff like that. But in terms
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: of the content, you guys have all handled that like
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: you guys do your.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: Job and no one has to tell me nobody, Hey, yes,
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: it's like nor Big.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: Nor Cruise to tell you guys go get content. Ninety
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: nine percent of the time I'm finding out is the
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: occasional I'll send you or them a text about something.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I talked about that three days ago. You're like, damn,
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: Like you guys are on it, which makes for great radio.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: But then you have people who don't have the talent
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: that you guys have, don't have the work ethic, that
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: won't want a job. I hear.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: I Sometimes I'll talk to like, you know, some of
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: my OG's in the radio game, and just the way
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: they talk, I'm just like, oh, this is this is
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: why you're not employed. Like, you know, they wanted me
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: to TikTok and I needed to post a certain amount
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: of times today and I'm like, listen, man, like this
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: is the world we live in, you know, like it
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: just is what it is.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: And that's the craziest thing. Man, I've had talent on
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: my team that have complained about stuff like that. I'd
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: be like, man, like, I don't get this plaint from
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: big boy. So you got a big It's difficult for
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: me to watch down this complaint from you that you've
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: got to Now, obviously he's put himself in a position
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: where he's got a team for sure, for sure facilitate
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: some of that stuff, but at the end of the day,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: it gets done, and at some point in his career
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: he had to do it on his own as well.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: So it's difficult for me to swallow the fact that
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: you got you know, you three four years into this
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: and you're already complaining about what you want to do.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: It's kind of crazy.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: Was there ever an artist doc that you almost convinced
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: to be on the radio?
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: An artist I did convince Keith Sweat to be on
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: a radio.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: Which he still is. So that was you.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: That's me.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, shout out to you.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: There was a time in my career because.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: You were doing the St. Louis slow jams.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: On a slow jam show, and there was a time
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: in my career where I wanted to be the slow
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: jam guy on everybody station. And my boss at the time,
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Tom Owen, said. He said, Okay, that's that's interesting, and
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: he said you could be that guy or you could
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: be the guy that hires that guy. Which guy do
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: you want to be? I was like, h I want
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: to be the guy that hires that guy. And as
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: we began to move into that space where we were
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: looking for somebody to take that position, I always thought
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: I thought of Rob Kelly, and I thought of Keith.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: Rob was still, by the way, good decision. Yeah, Rob
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: was still still irrelevant. Look at the time with current music,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: and Keith that actually honestly expressed an interest that just
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: happened to run into him, and he expressed an interest
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: as I was getting ready to vacate the Saint Louis
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: job and we were getting ready to talk about who
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: was going to be that person.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: And it worked.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: It's just worked out perfectly.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: Because he's how long has that show been happening.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: Man, it's been He's been on it almost twenty years. Man,
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: That shit's crazy and doing well.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: Anybody that you tried to convince but it didn't maybe
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: just for whatever, I've heard some wild names about like
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we I've heard some names. Not
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: that necessarily you were involved with but.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: I had a comedian one time who I thought was hilarious,
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: that I really thought could do it, and he was
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: supposed to meet me in a market I think was Philadelphia.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: He was supposed to meet me and Kevin Arten No,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: and we were supposed to do We were supposed to
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: create an audition tape for him so that I could
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: submit it to our syndication company and talk about it.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: And when a day came, he never showed up and
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: no showed, No showed. And let's say this was let's
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: say this was two thousand and nine, twenty nineteen. I'm
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: coming into our station here at Burdbank walking walk right
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: into him in a lobby do an interview, doing an
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: interview with big and didn't remember himself. I don't know
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: if you remember me, but you know, Doc from iHeart
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: you and I talked on time about syndication and you know,
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: you showed me and you never showed. He's like me
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: and I was like yeah, and he's like, what's your
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: name again? And I was just like, are you serious
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: right now? And then you know, we exchange numbers and
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: then he and me up. Ladies like man, I apologize
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: if you know that ever happened. He's I was doing
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: a lot of wild ship at that time. Could have
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: just slipped my mind. I was like, okay, cool, Well
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: what about now? I was like, nah, I'm good. I'm like, no,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: I'm good. I don't think we ought to go back
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: down that road again.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say, like, for you, you're obviously you're
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: friends with a guy like Nick.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Nick ends up doing mornings for a short period of
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: time across the street. He was also on moving to
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: New York, which I'm sure was against I heeart at
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: a certain point in time, but like, what is it
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: like to compete against friends.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: I've had blunk conversations with Nick about you know, about radio.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: I think he's a phenomenal television host and everything. I
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: just and and that's an art. This is what as
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: an artist. I've had conversation with him too. It's business man, you.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: Know, because I'm sure throughout your career that's happened.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: It's numerous, It's happened a few it's happened a few times,
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: and people have different Like Nick's a great guy, you gentlemen,
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: always always cool, and we had conversations before and after,
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: and you know, I just always thought it was gonna
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: be a tall order to go up against Big bigcause
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: you know, in l A.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: And being Nick Cannon, who's obviously got a million other
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: things on your plate, and you're not going to be
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: able to give the full bad width to the show
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: that it probably would need if you had a chance.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Nicka's just so talented man, It's it's crazy. But
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: you know they went on it. It did what it did.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: But you know, again, it was hard to encroach into
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: big Span.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: I like what he's doing now on AMP.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what was the biggest record? You were just wrong
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: about that. You you just didn't like, you didn't think
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: it was a hit, but it ended up being crazy.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Biggest record I was wrong about. I don't miss too
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: many records honestly. Really now it's as time has gone on,
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: I really rely a lot upon Ao and Amen.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: You were very good at that because I do. Because
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: we talked about the random white dudes running rythmic stations
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: and they don't have they just read the chart and
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: they don't have like a brain around them, like hey like.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: And the other thing I'll say about you, Doc is
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: I always tell everybody this when they ask about you,
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: I'm like, man, doc is if a mixtape comes out,
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: the album comes out, the night it's out, he'll text me,
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: what do you think about track nine? I think nine
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: is the best one, or you know whatever, And I don't.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: That's not it's your job, but I just don't think
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: a lot of program directors.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: That's my job and my guys, my team, like Ao,
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: who's in Miami now it'll be nine o'clock here and
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: I'm listening to the music, and he's in Miami. It's
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: twelve o'clock. He's listening to the music. And Amen is
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: in the bay and we're sending each other notes about
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: what song we want you to play at seven o'clock
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: at night, like we're passionate about yeah.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: Be like if a Drake album gets like I think
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: the last time it's surprised Drake album dropped.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: We're all on grip chat.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: Which one, which one? What's the what's the single?
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah? So no, I mean I like to I like
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: to stay tapped in. Man, that's a that's a good question.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: Like I've been in I've been doing it so long.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: Like usually when I hear the hits, I hear the hits.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: Not too many that I've I've missed.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: I feel like nowadays, I feel like there's more and
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: more songs that I'll hear and I'll be like, because
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: you know, TikTok is such a weird tool, and you know,
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: now we have a lot of songs, like like, there's
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: songs throughout the years that just had recently where there's
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: just been no hook. He'd be like, where's the hook?
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: It didn't matter, there's are hard records to point.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you did say something earlier when you mentioned
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: you mentioned fetti Wop. I remember having some conversations with
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: Lee or around that time, because we're a format like
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: any other brand, like you need stars, and I thought
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: he was a star. He was a star, and I
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: thought the first album was amazing.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: Twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen when he went on told with
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: Chris Brown as many people showed.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: Up to see him the album was crazy. And then
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: as they started moving on to the next project, I
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: honestly thought that there were still better songs on the
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: first project. I remember, you know, getting a record and
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: listening to it and Lea and I got into kind
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: He did discussion, is that the song with no hook?
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I think it was about school or something like that.
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: But there was a song that you and I listened
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: to in the office and there was no hook. It
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: was like he was trying to do a Dreams of
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: Nightmares stay.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: It was something different. Yeah, I remember Lee all like,
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: you know, you got to give an artist, you know,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: a chance to grow with it. And I'm like, yeah,
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: but it's gotta be a hit, yeah, and like he
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: needs a hit like I need him, I need I
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: need him because he was the face of our format
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: in some respects for that year. And now you look
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: up and it's twenty twenty three and.
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: It's he's about to go to get lot.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: Gone, you know. And it's just like the NBA. You
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: gotta have a face. You have had faces right now.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: You know. It's it's it's Drake, It's you know, the Weekend,
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: It's it's Kendrick, It's Rihanna, Cardi Carti, you want, you want.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: We need more faces, Like we can't look up five
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: years from now and it's still those guys. You know.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: We got to have some more faces, just like the
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: NBA needs new faces when Lebron and Steph go away.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: I mean it's important.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: So you have a great relationship with the guys that
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: XO in the Weekend, What is it like hanging out
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: with somebody who is so you know, to the fans,
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: kind of mysterious and not out there like the Weekend
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: is somebody who if you're around them, he's just a
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: normal guy. But like he's definitely not that if you
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: just consume his content. He's a very mysterious guy. And
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: I think he's probably going to get out of that
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: soon with the show coming out and all that.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: He's a really nice dude MANE like just really impressed
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: with his character, as I am with j cole like
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: character man Like as famous as they are, you kind
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: of like watch them from a from Afar and you're like,
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: you know, it's a good dude man, you know, gives
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: people their attention. You can only imagine that he's getting
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: pulled in several directions. I've seen able at you know,
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: family functions, you know, with the XO team, Like, Wow,
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: he's here and he's engaged. It's not I mean I
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: mean engaged in terms of he's engaging in conversation. He's
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: not on his phone right, you know, say I look
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: up and he's playing with my son and I mean
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: that to me is what really sets them apart, Like
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: they're just good human beings. Man.
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: I enjoy being in the company. The one thing I
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: want to kind of breakdown is the science and why
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: the number one complaint I've been getting from listeners and
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: you've been getting from listeners your whole your whole career.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: Why is it every time I hear the fucking radio
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: it's the same fucking ten songs. Now, there is a
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: science to this, but that's I'm sure that that's been
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: the feedback for however many years. You guys play the
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: same shit. You guys play the same shit. Break down
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: from Doc Winner the science of why a radio playlist
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: is very tight and why you might hear five or
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: six songs over and over again if you listen all
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: day driving an uber or something.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: I like to use the analogy of a nightclub. Our
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: job is to retain listeners. Right. Let's say if you
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: were at a nightclub and the DJ decided he wanted
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: to go off on a rant and play, you know,
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: thirty minutes of Frank Sinatra or whatever clear to dance,
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: clear the dance floor, they probably stay and wait until
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: he got came back to his senses doesn't happen in radio.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: They go find the other they go, they may not
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: come back. I've actually been in a car and not
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: in the case of playing bad music, but a very
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: long commercial break, and saw this uber driver listening to us,
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: you know, go to the competition. Obviously he was preferred
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: us come back. We were still playing commercials. I could
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: see his anger. I'm gonna go back there instead, because
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: you know, and what retains them is a record that
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: they like that they can sing, not necessarily something they've
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: never heard.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: Right, I think. So I always tell people it's like
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: the average radio listeners how many minutes to.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Day might be ten fifteen minutes.
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: So if you think about it in that through that
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: lens we have we talked about PPM. The meters are
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: like people get paid to wear these little pages and
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: attracts their real time listening. So it's like you're hoping
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: to play something to keep somebody around in that ten
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: minute window that they happen to LISTENEP. So the research
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: and data on how you come up with what the
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: five powers are what all goes into that.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: Probably the most important thing is who you're going to ask,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: you know, do you like this record. You know, who's
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: your screen is what they call you know, it might
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: be eighteen to thirty four year old women, It could
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: be eighteen and thirty four year old men. It could
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: be eighteen to thirty four year old black women, eighteen
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: and thirty four year old Latino women.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: As a programmer, you got to know what.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: You got to know what moves the needle in your
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: market for your down You know, eighteen to thirty four
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: Latino females who listen to radio three hours. You can
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: get that granular with it, and then you begin to understand,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: you know, what moves the needle for them. The more
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: you listen to, the more you do research, and the
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: more you ask the right questions, you get a sense
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: of okay, like this is what moves the needle for them,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: and then you give people what they want to keep
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: coming back. You have to go to a restaurant and
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden they tell you, all, we stop
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: making your favorite meal.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: I just had just happened to make it my favorite meal.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: Why, yeah, we got bored with it just happened. Come on, man, Yeah,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: So I mean that's the science. And again it can
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: be frustrating for people, but you know.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: And there's a bunch of factors. Right, You'll have like
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: call out, which is where you're pretty much kind of
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: is that a how would you describe call out?
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: For radio station? You call out to people that fit
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: the screen, and you play hooks of songs, ask.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: What do you think of this song? What do you
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: think of this song? You'll see streaming data for the
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: market you checked the Shazam so uh. And then there's
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: also the M scores, which is is that something you guys?
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: Obviously M scores is like.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: I look at it, but you know, somebody could have
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: turned a song off. You don't really know what the
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: reason is. And that's what the switching score is. Someone
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: turned off the song or a number of people turned
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: off the song while it was playing. And sometimes you
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: can look at the song and say, okay, you see
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: other factors that contribute to you know, might be the
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: wrong time that you played the song, might just be
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: tired of it, rested and then tested again. Is what
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: we like to sing.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: But where do you see not only just radio obviously radio,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: but just music going in the next five years or
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: so dark because it's it's I mean, it's forever evolving.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: Everything is changing.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: We've been talking about this R and B thing for
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: the last two or three years, coming backs, coming back.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: I know we're getting a lot of R and B
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: records that are that are our audience is really enjoying.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: Here in La There's Latin trap that I think is
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: making it has been around for a number of years,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: that it's making a compelling case to be a part
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: of our arsenal on the radio. Man, we're just we're
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: looking for hits. Man. I mean, you talk to a
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: lot of people right now, they think that this is
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: amongst the worst cycles that we've had in a.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: Long time in terms of people making records records. I
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: feel like most of the female artists are the ones
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: who are providing like real records. Like I'm thinking car
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: even quoil right. Really it's like yo, Like, you know,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know what it is about that either.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: Because I think times are different. When you think about
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: curating artists. Back in the nineties, it was pre streaming,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: and so if you decided to take the Sleep of
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: Faith and someone thought that you were you know, you
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: had the talent, you went for it, you know, because
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: going for it means that you were going to sell
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of records. You're going to go on tour
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: and you're going to make a lot of money. Now
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: here's this streaming thing? Or I just keep throwing shots,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: Just keep throwing shots out and you can make a
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: lot of money.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: And yeah, what's my what's my incentive to make up
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: to be great?
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: What's my incentive to be great when I can take
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: care of my family because I'm making money, you know,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: putting out a lot of music.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, you've obviously had to fire a lot of people
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: in your career.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: I've had to part ways with people. I like to
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: put it that way.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: What is the craziest reason you've had to part ways
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: with an employee without saying who they are?
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: Obviously? Well, I've had a couple of hygiene issues.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: Really Yeah, so someone's stink they smelled bad. Yeah, what's
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: that conversation? Like?
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: Like, I think I think that brother was just in
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: and I have to think about it that that brother
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: at that time, he was just I think he'd gotten
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: a divorce and he was just having a rough time. Yeah,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: he got in divorced and he was living in a
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: hotel and you know, but it was it was making
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: the working experience unbearable because he didn't he wasn't showering. Man,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: what else? Damn fad some I've had so many crazy
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: experiences that just beyond And one of the craziest was
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: I'm in Jacksonville and a buddy of mine had a
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: friend that listened to the radio station, and she wanted
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: to meet with me about some type of charity event
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: that the radio station was going to support. And at
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: the time, I was doing afternoons in Jacksonville slow jam
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: show in Saint Louis, and I was overseeing whatever urbans
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: we had at the time. I think it might have
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: been five before I got to the eighty that I
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: do now, but it was like five or so, and
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: I remember her coming in my office. I'm in the
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: office and I'm kind of like not really paying attention
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: on like, yeah, it sounds like a great idea. Why'n't
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: you leave something with my assistant? And she said, okay,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: and one other thing, and she gets up and she
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: locks my door and she starts to disroll and I
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: just remember saying, Yo, what are you doing, and my
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: face and my eyes locked with her eyes, and she
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: realized that and then she just started crying, and so
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: I you know, I sat her down in my chair
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: and I was like, yo, like like what are you doing?
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: Like was this like your plan? Like this was your
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: you thought this? Did you think this through it all?
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: Like I just you know, And I was like, yeah,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: I'm flattered, but like it's this is not going down
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: like this, man. And I feel bad that you feel
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: like you want to sit here and compose yourself because
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: right now I'm starting to think like, okay, so what
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: can happen right now? Yeah, you're crying buying woman in
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: my office, you know. And so when got my assistant,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: you know, gave her some tissue, told her to sit
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: here for a while, and you know, when you're ready
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: to go go, I gotta go do my show.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: But you know, like that's crazy.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: It was, it was it was kind of nice.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: Have you ever had someone in your Jacksonville days fly
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: to Jacksonville to you face to face to be like, Yo,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: what the fuck? Why is the song not getting played?
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: I feel like listen. I don't want to keep saying
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: did I feel like didd He's the kind of guy
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: who might like just show up to the office one day.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: I could be wrong.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: No, No, he's not He's not that kind of guy.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: He's not like I mean, he'll text me about a record.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: But you know again, I think I don't really I
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: don't emote that, so I don't really get that back.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: That's good. Yeah, I'm not gonna say something crazy to
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: did he He's not going to say something crazy to me.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: And every once in a while when I when I
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: do get that kind of response, I'm not that guy.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, Okay, cool, I'm out you.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: We did Real Street Fest in two thousand and nineteen
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: or eighteen? What year do we do th Street Fests?
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: Did it in nine nineteen? Yeah, Pandemic was in twenty Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: We had a great, great time, and we always talk
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: about you, and I like the radio show is kind
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: of dying, Like obviously iHeart has the jingle Ball Tour,
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: they have all these things that are very like top
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: forty friendly even there, you know, shout out to the
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: iHeart Festival that we do in Vegas every year. You
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: are you do you can you foresee or I know
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: it's something that you want to do. But an urban
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: hip hop verse version nationally of some sort of show
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: or festival.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, I hope so I thought about it for years,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: but you know, every year something some dynamic changes, right,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: you know, went from the radio show to us realizing
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: we need to do festivals and put together this great event.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: It was amazing, and then the pandemic, and.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: The pandemic kicks in, and then you know, now we're
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: in the middle of a financial crisis, and you know,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: it's hard for you to go to your company and say, hey,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: give me these millions of dollars to throw an event
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: that may not make the money back, and so you instead,
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: you you, you know, you start partnerships with people who
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: do that for a living and say, hey, how can
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: we do this together? Do this together. I'll give me
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: a bunch of tickets to give away, and you know
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: kind of what happened with Dre and the Super Bowl
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: Doctor Dre, which was crazy. You know, Big Big have
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: a great relationship, gave us tickets to sit in his
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: suite in the Super Bowl for us to give away.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: And then obviously the Drake tours come in. Drake Tour,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: remember some of these mega festivals.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the Kanye and Drake show that we gave away
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: right before.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, m did you go to that? Oh yeah,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: I was in a dr with my wife for anniversary. Yeah,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: watching it on Amazon, it was not It was legendary.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: Do you see yourself ever leaving radio?
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean I've been doing it for
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: thirty four years as my anniversary in January, So at
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: some point because.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: I could see at some point, you know, Apple coming
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: and being like, hey, Doc.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: I mean I get I get approached to be on
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: boards right now, which are of interest to me. Wow,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: because you get an opportunity to play at a different
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: pond that you don't normally play with. But also, you know,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: use the relationships you've established over years to you know,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: to make some headway. So I mean, I don't know, man.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: I mean I try to stay in shape, and.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you you are the definition of black done craw.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: I try to stay in shape and and I got
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: I got a young son who's.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's young, and he's hooping.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: He's a hockey player.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, he's playing hockey.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: A black hockey player.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: Hey, there's a few of those.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: And he's four. You know what I'm saying. So you know,
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: I want to spend more time with him.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you were on you called and yelled at us
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: while your wife was in labor.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: Oh man, that was the craziest thing ever. I don't
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: know why why I answered the phone that you guys
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: kept calling.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: We did the celebrity smash thing. I was like, I'd
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: be damned if we let this ship fly over these
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: airways before we get the green light a doc winner.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: So I'm in the hospital holding one of my wife's
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: leg as my son is coming out and the nurse
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: is holding the other leg and he just got, you know,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: my phone. I'm just like, yo, what it's gotta be
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: an emergency? Why you guys keep calling? So I answered
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: the phone and the nurse looks at me like are
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: you fucking kidding me right now?
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: And your wife's screaming in the background and me and
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: for sure assume you guys were having sex. So I
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: was like, yo, doctors answered the phone while he's lady,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: And then we realized, oh, there was a baby.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my son's My son's crown was out at the
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: time you guys are calling, and I was like, my
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: wife's like can you answer the phone? The son is
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: coming out of me. I was like, yeah, it's important.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: Before you go. What are your top five favorite albums
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: of all time? Off the top of your head without
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: thinking about.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: Top five favorite albums in music.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: In music, I'll give you that. You don't have to
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: say it.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: Definitely Lauren Miseducational Lauren Hill. It was groundbreaking. Uh Keith
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: Sweat's first album, Make It Last Forever Victorius, which one
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: ready to Die Your Life after Death, Ready to Die
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: Damn actually posted these one time on my on my Instagram.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: Uh Dad, who was the other one? Who's the album?
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: And when I talk about a album, I mean I'm
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: just playing every track on the ALP because it's that good.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: And I've been around for a long time, so it
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: it's hard to lock down five. I do remember uh
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: Jay's first album Reasonable Doubt. Reasonable Doubt was incredible, incredible.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: I remember Tifically Green saying is this guy from New
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: York He's gonna be the greatest rapper ever? And I
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: was like, really, it's a big thing to say. No.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: She's like, no, he's a guy, and like she was right.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: She was right, And uh, I don't.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: Know anything more recently that you just can can remember
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: just liking, like, Yo, this is just a body of
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: work that I.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: Would be remiss if I didn't say. I just think
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: that Drake is remarkable, man, just and it's it's an
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: interesting conversation because you know, we're about to celebrate the
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: fiftieth anniversary of hip hop. I happened to be around
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: New York City at the time when it was bubbling up.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: In most instances, New Yorkers claim, you know, we claimed everything,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: the best basketball, but you could claim hip hop, claim
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: hip hop and factual, I remember playing ball and thinking
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: that we were the only guys that could do it,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: and coming to Vegas and playing in a in a turn.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 3: Like pizza basketball hip hop is no debate, playing against
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: Byron Scott and like yo, we went back home, like yo,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 3: these dudes from l A can play ball, you know.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: But so the purest will definitely find it difficult to
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: accept the fact that a dude from from Canada might
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: be to go. But when you think about body of war,
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: as long as I've been in this business, to have
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: a body of work from a radio perspective where we
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: research music.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, from our perspective from the radio side, there's nobody
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: who's ever been close.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: It's it's the most insane thing that you've ever seen.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: Like he's the most prolific hit maker we've ever seen.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: It's literally even when you sort the list by artists,
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: it's just literally his songs and his name, and then
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: the score on the right is is through the roof.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: And you're just like, I've never seen anybody do anything
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: Who's the Who's second in that list? Because if you
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: were to pull up like titles in the library, who
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: would be the second person?
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: Is it?
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: Like Wayne? Is it the pain? I mean, I don't know,
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: Like man, there's not a lot of people that.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: Have nobody has the Drake list.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: You might, you might maybe maybe Wayne. It's a good
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: it's a really good question. Maybe it's Wayne. But it's
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: not only that the list is long.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: It's just the quality, the research quality.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: It's the research, like you could you could he might
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: be able to do a show with these twenty songs
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: this night and another twenty songs another you could do
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: a show with all the feature another Yeah, and who
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: could do that?
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: I'll give you that. Nobody could do that.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: But but again, I honestly remember when I put real
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: on in LA there's an artist who again I won't name,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: but he told me like they don't like his music here,
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: and I was just like hunhi, like Noah, like this
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: West Coast, look, we don't like them. I'm like, dude,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: like you're really wrong.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: Like there's not a place where people don't like Drake's music.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Like this guy could sell out, uh you
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: know Crypto for four or five nights like they like him.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah for you.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: Coming to La. I was on the radio when Dan dropped,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: and there was just that moment when Kendrick dropped. Damn,
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: those songs would not go away, like Love and obviously Hunt,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: but there was just songs that were in power rotation
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: for like two years.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: It's a great album.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: It was just wild to like I just remember being like, fuck, man,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: like I love this album.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: I fucking hate it cause all I do is play
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: these fucking songs all day. I love the fact that
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: it was at a time when you just put a
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: station on in LA and it was a guy from La,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: a brother at that you know, who had a management
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: team around him that were brothers, and so I mean
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: it was just perfect timing for us. A lot of
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: things like that fell into our lap. You remember our
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: first show in LA that we did, Real Show twenty fifteen.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: We had Kendrick was the headliner. We had future. He
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: and Drake had just done a show and we get
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: a called Sunday Morning. You know, he came out right,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: he's pulling up.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: I wasn't there yet, but I remember seeing it.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: You never seen, never felt anything like that in an
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: arena in my life when he stepped out on that stage.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: I actually have a picture in my office. You got it.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: The craziest momentum I've ever seen. And I was like, man, like,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: we're going to be here.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: I haven't think till like, I think the first real
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: show I might have been a part of was j
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: Cole headlining and Cardi B was Yeah, was on the show,
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: but this was prime. This was like, I mean, Cardi
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: had records, but it wasn't like first album way early.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't even know if the first album was
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: out very long.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: I hadn't been out long, yeah, saying that she only
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: had one album, right.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I remember being in the dressing room and
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: like seeing them to talk.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah yep, and I think he was giving her something. Yeah,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: I've seen a couple of those. If you remember Real
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: street Fest what you d call it was on our show.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I interviewed her. Yeah, she's it's crazy I always
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: tell the homies at r A. I'm like, you guys,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: fucking drop so easy. If you work at a public RCA,
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: good fucking luck. You don't have to work your records much. Hey,
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: I have a new Drake song, it's added. I have
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: a new Weekend song. It's added.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: Man, When we added Doja to that show, Let's say
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: our show was in August and we out at her
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: like maybe in May, she she was not. She was
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: not the same person by the time the Tiger remix,
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: by the time by the next year she is gone.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: It went from who.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: Is this person?
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: To yeah, man, those those are the stories that that
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: that I love because you got to think the radio
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: has something to do with that undred percent.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: Well, look, Doc, I appreciate you. You guys can go
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: follow Doc if you want to follow him. He does not.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: You're not like a big social media guys.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: Doc. When is.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: Anything else on the way? Signing on more radio stations? Obviously,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: you know, I know that iheart's kind of going through
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: the financial ship right now, but like you've weathered a
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: million storms in that in that sense, but like anything
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: coming that you're excited about, are you.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: Just cultivating or living black? This year, that'll be in August, okay,
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: and basically paying homage to hip hop's fifty then of
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: her Like, dude, I was, I was back there in
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: the seventies, Like, couldn't tell me as amazing as it was.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: Celebrating this thing fififty years later, and it would mean
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: what it meant to our community. It gave people, like
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: gave brothers. They're brothers that are millionaires, a number of
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: them from it. It's it's amazing.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: Did you ever have any big yer Tupac moments.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: Tupac interview Tupac in La after Jason's lyrics or Poetic
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: Justice Justice for the Poetic Justice movie was he clearly
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: had been out the night before, still smelled like alcohol,
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: but he was so well spoken. And then after the interview,
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: I remember I was flying back to Saint Louis and
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: my lady, who was my first wife, was sitting in
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: the lobby reading a book, and he saw her and
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: he took off running towards her, and his boy like
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: tackled him and pulled him to the side, and he
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: started laughing, and she was oblivious to it. I always remembers, like, damn,
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: what would happen if he had gotten to her like problem.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: She might have been your former wife a lot earlier.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: Could have been, could have been, but no, Man, thank
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: you for doing this.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: Of course, Doc. Appreciate you.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: Hey, we gotta wrap up an interview brought to you
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: by Hard Dean, Las Vegas. Appreciate y'all watching. Hey, don't
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: forget when you go to Vegas, you gotta go to
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: Hard Dean. Man, it's the craziest dispensary you'll ever walk into.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: It smells like fucking heaven in there. All right, get
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: in that uber when you hit Sin City, tell him
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: take me to Hard Dean. They're gonna take you. You're
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: gonna get a wild selection of the just top, top
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: of the line cannabis, the best selection you'll go be
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: able to see in the US. Plus on top of that,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: they got the crazy gear, they got the clothes, they
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: got the bikinis. They got a wonderful selection of bud
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: tenders that are very good at their job. Man, they'll
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: take carry you. Tell them that Bootleg keV sent you
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: the bud tenders of Hardean. Theyn't know what that means.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: They're gonna get you hooked up right all right. Go
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: follow them online Harden Underscore Lost Vegas, or just go
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: shout out o their website too. Man Hardenlasvegas dot com
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: and when you're in Vegas, pull up to Harden or
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: you're playing yourself for real