Latest / Normally / Normally Podcast: Charlie Kirk’s Murder, Rising Crime, and America’s Crisis of Trust

Transcript

Normally Podcast: Charlie Kirk’s Murder, Rising Crime, and America’s Crisis of Trust · Normally

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to Normally. I'm Carol Markowitz. I'm
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: here with Mary Catherine Ham. We recorded an episode that
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: you're about to hear and then learn the shocking news
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: that Charlie Kirk had been murdered in Utah, and we
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: felt like we had to add a segment about that
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: and talk about it and not let the episode just
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: stand on its own because it's a heartbreaking day for us,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: and we felt like we needed to share with you all.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's early in this news cycle, but the losses
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: already deeply felt. I did not know Charlie super well,
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: but I have known him since he was young because
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: he's been making an impact since he was very young,
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: and we worked together in those early days of turning point.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: He was doing the thing that you and I love, yeah,
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: which is to engage on issues that are important to us.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: You and I both You grew up in New York.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: I grew up in Durham, North Carolina. We grew up
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: in liberal communities where we were happy to have friends
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: who we could go back and forth with. And the
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: thing that struck me today was and the Utah governor,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: even though we don't know a ton and I think
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: we can make some assumptions with the Utah governor.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: Was like he was.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Assassinated while debating on a college campus.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: And that.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Is the thing I admired about Charlie was watching him
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: go out and civilly and energetically with a take on
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: whoever came to him on a college campus. He was
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: what college used to be. But you had to import
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: him to college to make it work now because they
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: don't do that anymore. And the idea that someone would
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: target him for that, and that people think too many
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: people think that's warranted is crushing. It's crushing, it really is.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I feel just devastated, and I've just been at a
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: loss for words, breaking down crying at different points. He
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: was such a good person. And you know, the thing is,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: you're right. I love an argument, I love debating, I
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: love all of that. But when he went into the
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: lions Den all the time, sometimes I thought, why, you know,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: why mind are you going to change?
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: And the thing is he was changing minds, he was growing,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: he his organization was growing. They had done some incredible
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: work in the last year. And it's such a loss,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: and I feel just.
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: For his family.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Just this it's senseless it's really senseless. He was killed
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: for wanting to talk to the other side, for taking
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: the chance and trying to talk to the other side.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's really it's dark. It makes me worried
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: about the future. Yeah, you know, there are two Greg Lukianov,
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: who is with Fire, the Free speech organization, I'm going
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: to borrow his words because he said what we want
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: is maximum tolerance of other viewpoints and zero tolerance of violence,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: and particularly on college campuses, over the last decades, we've
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: reversed that. Far too often it is minimal tolerance of
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: other viewpoints and far too much tolerance of violence, which
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: then cascades. And then, by the way, when you tell
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: people that words are violence, yeah, they want to retaliate
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: with violence. So like, there are people and I'm not
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: going to name check people or go through the receipts
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: because it's deeply depressing, But there are too many people
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: who believe that Charlie Kirk's words were an existential threat
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: to them. That was never true. Because he was speaking,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: he faced an existential threat. I mean, I'm obviously thinking
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: about his family quite a lot. He has two young kids.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: I believe they are about one and four. His wife, Erica,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: will have a very tough road.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: Ahead of her.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: And you know, they were people of faith and that
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: the promise is that God will be with them, and
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: God will be with his kids and with her as
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: they go through this, and that's real. But sometimes it
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: will feel impossible for that to be real, and it's hard.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: It's hard for me to think about someone starting that
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: journey to have this be her life.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: It's just there's so many things that are sad about it.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: I loved how openly Charlie lived his faith, and so
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: if you're listening to this, I think let's just pray
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: for his family and pray for the country as we
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: move forward. Thank you for listening. Guys. We are back
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: on normally normal takes.
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: THEE heard.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: I'm guys, happy and I'm my own markets.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: How does you look going? My captain?
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: Good?
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: You know, hectic, trying to keep up with all the
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: new extracurriculars for the children.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: I often take them on and then I'm like, oh,
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: I have to do this every week.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I went to back to school night last night for
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: my youngest son and like they were like, any, no,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: continue signing the planner every night.
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: And I was like signing the planner every night. I
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: haven't even signed it once.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, same girl saying I have a I have a
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: very type a child who if the planner needs to
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: get signed, she makes sure it's signed right outside of that.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not happening.
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: That's the first child, or the second.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: The second child a second.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I have to ask you if you share my maybe
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: semi problematic take, which is that when you get asked
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: to do something daily as a parent for one of
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: your children, one I don't like it, don't care for it,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: don't put this on my plate. Let the homework show
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: that we did the home That not a plan we
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: need to sign that.
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: I saw the planner like you did the homework. Just
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: take it in to school and give it to the teacher.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: But I have noticed a correlation, and that is that
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: people who give me daily work often are pre kids
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: in their life chapter and people who do not give
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: me daily work have several children. Because there's a different
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: understanding of what I'm capable of.
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: It's interesting.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know, No, I think that the teachers in
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: this case have kids, and I'm sure it is just
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: you know, policy of the school or whatever.
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: Is blown up by your teachers.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't do stuff like this every day. And
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: plus my other two kids, this is the youngest child,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: the older two are you know, I got this joke
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: from Modern Family, But they're completely self cleaning ovens.
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: Like I don't know what they're doing.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: My oldest I haven't been involved in her school work
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: since she was like in first grade.
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: It's all been like on her own.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: So now having it like chase this kid around, be like,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: let me sign your planner.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: No, I'm not a fan at it. We're in the
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: car every day, like, just give it to me while
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: I'm driving.
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: I don't say, I don't want to say. I'm just
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: like sign it for me.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: But you know that's a life skill too.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, shall we to the news, which is,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: as usual, more sad than our day to day lives. Yeah,
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: we are still talking about the tragic murder of Arena Zarutska,
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: a twenty three year old Ukrainian immigrant who was writing
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: a Charlotte light Rail public transit system and was in
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: a totally unprovoked, insane interaction that is caught on tape,
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: stabbed to death by a man on the train who
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: we now know to be a four time, fourteen time,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: arrested several time, felons several times, violent felon, and schizophrenic
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: man who was walking the streets and riding the train.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: And the response to this has been enlightening.
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: Right, That's the thing this exposed so much.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: This is why it's a two day story on normally,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: because the conversation around it has been so.
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: Crazy that we have to talk about it.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: I think the left is just grappling with what they
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: can say here, and what they are not saying is
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: we need to keep people in prison for longer, we
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: need to arrest more people, we need to contain this
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: kind of thing.
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: Instead, what they're saying.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Is a bunch of gibberish that doesn't apply to anything.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: John Favreau, he's a Obama bro podcaster at pod Saves America,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: founder of Crooked Media. He wrote this tweet where he
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: pretended to say, you know, Democrats to just admit that
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: some politicians have been way too lenient in releasing dangerous
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: criminals from.
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: Prison these last few years.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: And he lists some crimes committed by people they let
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: out early, and of course all of those crimes were
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: committed by people let out by Donald Trump. These are
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: pardon recipients largely from January sixth, I think that, you know,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: he thinks he's got a gotcha. I'm like, rearrest them
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: and throw away the key.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Like I know, so you know, so we both were like, yeah,
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: the violent ones shouldn't be pardoned.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: Two, if you take this as a as a real point,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: which it's not. It is a it's his gut reaction,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: which is to watch the tragic public murder of a
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: young person and make a joke about January sixth. But
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: if you're to take it as a real point, and
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: by the way, I thought it was sincere at first,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: and those like, oh, I guess we're not doing the
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: abundance thing on crime, but right it right?
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Do I think January sixth folks are in danger of
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: violent recidivism?
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: I do not.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: I just don't.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: I think it's different, material different. And the problem once
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: again is that if you say concerns about this are
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: out of bounds, racist, crazy, the domain of only people
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: who love every January sixth and everything that happened that day,
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: you don't make.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: The concerns go away.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: You just characterize the concerns and the right that shares
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: them as very reasonable exactly.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: You know, on a previous episode, I said that the
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: most lib thing about me is that I think that
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: we should treat violent offenders and non violent offenders differently,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: and I think that non violent offenders should get the
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: cushier prison and you know, should get different things.
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: But it turns out that's not even a lib thing anymore.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: They don't they don't see a difference between violent defenders
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: and non violent offenders.
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: I get to be conservative.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Paraye Well and Charlie Cook characterized it well when it
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: comes to crime. I have been somebody who's very open
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: to criminal justice reform and thinks there can be an
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: excessive force.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: Problem like that's it's a real exactly Okay.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Now I want to be honest about those statistics and
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: who it affects, and I do not.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: I do not want to like.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Paint with a super broad brush and defund police for instance. Right,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: But I'm squishy in that I want the Constitution applied
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: correctly to every person so that our system, our miracle
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: system of justice, which has its faults but is a
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: miracle in the history of humankind, can exist and treat
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: people fairly. Because I do think people get dragged into
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: the criminal justice system and their lives turned in a
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: bad direction when we could have, perhaps with non violent folks,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: turned them in a in a better direction.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: Okay, fine, this guy's not that.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: This guy has not sent that a group of social
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: workers out and pick him up safely and every and.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: Put him in a statement program, and everything's fine. It's
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: not real.
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: It's not And you know, Peter J.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Hassen points out that Favreau had defund police activists on
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: his podcast in twenty twenty. Clearly is not actually interested
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: in fighting any crime. He's just interested in making a
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: anti Donald Trump point. So you know, when he's looking
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: for the people that did this, it was you, dude,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: it was you.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Well, I like, I just think the more that you
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: make flippant jokes about this or tell people that it's
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: statistically rare that this happens and they shouldn't have feelings
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: about it, one is it is statistically rare. And also
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: the randomness of it is very scary to people because
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: as you as you said, she's not really putting, she's
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: not involved in any circles that would put her in
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: this position.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: She's no one, No one's anticipating this.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: And then it also went viral that we I don't
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: want to watch the whole video, but it went viral. Yeah,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: there was certainly lag time in someone coming to her
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: aid at all, and people around her seemed disinterested to
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: an almost shocking degree, like I understand the guys in
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: the train and he still has a knife, so I Y, yeah,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: but it does not take confronting him to look concerned
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: and hit nine.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: One one on your phone exactly.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: And later someone did come and try to like help
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: her and pressure on her. It's yeah, that video is
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: tough in so so so many ways, right, and.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Again the randomness of it, and you know, the it's
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: very it's a very rare occurrence.
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: Yes, it's a very rare occurrence, but really not rare enough.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: And you know, somebody tried to gotcha on us on
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: x when we posted our episode from a few days ago,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: and they tweeted a link at us and they said,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: you're covering this and it was a story of a
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: man sat behind a stranger on the bus, slit her
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: throat and unprovoked attack.
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: The man in this story is white.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I think the implication is that you and I are
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: not covering it because he's white. I hadn't heard about this,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: and so, yeah, I think this story should be big too.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: It happened in Tulsa in August. Absolutely, this is another
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: story where somebody.
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: Violent acted violent on public transport.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: This person was also a fugitive from a justice warrant
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: from the state of Missouri, so already had a previous
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: interaction with the law.
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: Again, you're not going to get me in a gotcha.
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: I think this should be a big story too.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: I think that somebody who has a warrant for their
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: arrest from Missouri.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: Uh, off the streets. Yeah, should have been.
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: Off the streets. So nice try.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: But I'm actually fully supportive in covering this story.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: And there's another part of this too that in this
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: story would make it a national story if the media
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: wasn't disinterested in this narrative, and it is that there
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: is a visual element.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: We both work in news in the Tulsa case.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: To my knowledge, I could be wrong, but I just
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: looked it up and there's not a surveillance.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: Video of this happening. That was like, maybe it's just withheld.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: I understand that, but when something has a visual element
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: like that, it becomes.
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: A bigger story.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Because it is part of news packages and that is
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: how newsrooms work. So it is very noticeable when it
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: doesn't become a story when there is that visual element.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: But I echo you on this Tulsa killing in which
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: these are these are quite analogous victims, and he should
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: not have been on transit. A couple of a lot
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: of other folks have chimed in and said, you know,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: when I go in public transit, and I do it.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: Too, I'm constantly scanning. I am, I am.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: I am encountering very mentally ill people, sometimes scary, the
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: ones one with knitting needles one time who yelled many
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: many fwords sitting across from me, and I had to
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: move on the train. And it's like because she had
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: a weapon, and a lot of people are looking around
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: and saying to democrats and media, but I repeat myself,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: it doesn't have to.
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: Be this way, It really doesn't.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: Why do we have to accept this right?
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: I think part of why she was sort of you know,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: in her phone and not paying attention is that she
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: expected that train to be safe, and I think you
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: and I don't have that expectation.
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: And that's a bad thing for us. I was thinking
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: about this I almost when I haven't. You know, I
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: live in South Florida.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Now I don't have a lot of opportunities for public transportation,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: but when I did, I would always sit with my
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: back to the wall so nobody could be behind me.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: I would sit, you know, in a seat where I
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: could see everything. Since I was a child in Brooklyn,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: I learned defense mechanisms on public transportation, on how to
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: be safe. And that's sad and unfortunate, and it shouldn't
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: have to be this way. And that's what people on
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: the right are saying, that we don't want it to
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: be like this anymore. We want change, We want to
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: see things altered that we don't have to be, you know,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: scanning constantly in a car, scanning, you know, looking around
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: and putting ourselves in a defensive position to escape.
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: You know, we shouldn't have to live like this.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Well, and in this way, by the way, groups together
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: two different kinds of granted, statistically rare but very traumatic events,
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: which is mass shootings in this kind of thing, both
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: perpetrated by very obviously violent, mentally ill people, yeah, who
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: had shown violent propensities in the past. I do think
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: that the action we probably need to have a discussion
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: about is how you get those people off.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: The streets for more permanent periods of time.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: And again, it's not like just a couple social workers
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: show up at your house. This this point, this man's
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: poor family tried to have him committed and ran up
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: against like problem.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: The way I understand it, the cabal of NGOs just like, well,
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: they're saying what Van Jones says about him. Can we
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: play that clip real quick.
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: It's not about cashless bail or no cashless bill. It's
• 18:13
  Speaker 6: about the fact that we don't know how to deal
• 18:16
  Speaker 6: with people who were hurting in the way this man
• 18:17
  Speaker 6: was hurting. Hurt people, hurt people. What happened was horrible,
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: but it becomes an opportunity for people to jump on vandwagons.
• 18:23
  Speaker 6: And then for someone like Charlie Kirk, you should be
• 18:25
  Speaker 6: ashamed of himself. No one mentioned the word race, white, black,
• 18:29
  Speaker 6: or anything except him. What people mention is that the
• 18:32
  Speaker 6: horror of what happened to this young woman.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: No, that's not true.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: The perpetrator did, in fact mention her race and said
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: that he got her, He got that white girl.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: It's on tape.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But for his first point, hurt people hurt people
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: is not the message that's going to solve this in
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: the future.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: That's used for like somebody whose parents were mean to them,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: so then they're mean to their girlfriend when they grow up.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: It's not used for somebody smashing and slashing the woman
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: in front of him. I'm sorry, that's not the correct
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: usage of hurt people.
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: Hurt people.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then one more clip Caroline Downey, a buddy
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: who writes at National Review She's great Jugo's full bore
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: on the same CNN show to say like, hey, maybe
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: there is another option here.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: It is he served time for his violent offenses, not
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: for his schizophrenia.
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: I know what I'm saying that that was compounding this
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: entire issue, the fact that he lashed out violently on that.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 19:27
  Speaker 6: I'm just saying he did actually serve time for the
• 19:30
  Speaker 6: violent offenses that he committed.
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: But he was a career criminal, a repeat offender who
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: was let back onto our streets despite a really bad
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: criminal record that suggests he should have been locked away
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: for life because he was threatening the public, He was
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: a menace to society.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: He should have been locked away for life for what
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: Now he should have schizophrenia? Want to you actually said that.
• 19:52
  Speaker 7: Said that, he said he should be locked away for
• 20:00
  Speaker 7: life for schizophrenia institutionalized. Yes, And if you're saying they
• 20:04
  Speaker 7: should not, you're saying that young women like you and
• 20:07
  Speaker 7: me are basically just we're lambs into the slaughter. You
• 20:11
  Speaker 7: go on public transportation in this city, that could happen
• 20:13
  Speaker 7: to any single one of us. I use public transit constantly.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: That is completely unhinged.
• 20:19
  Speaker 7: Frankly, people shouldn't be locked away for mental illness. They
• 20:22
  Speaker 7: should be treated for it in institution.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Yes, m I mean we used to do this, and
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: it's tricky because it's a liberty question. I don't want
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: people being like involuntarily committed at the drop of a hat.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: But someone who has many violent offenses and is diagnosed
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: skis for.
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: A hard call. We gotta yeah. And the way that
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: they acted.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Is if she was crazy, and who would believe this.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Most people would believe this, Most people would want that.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Most people would choose that, and they would choose it
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: even if it was their family member, like this man's
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: family wanted to do to him.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: That's the problem because many families get stuck in this
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: position because you have an adult citizen who you cannot force.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Often a male who is stronger than the rest of
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: his family who you cannot force.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: To stay on his medication.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: But in an institutionalized situation, yeah, they could be on
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: daily medication.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: And CNN panels will tell you that, no, you cannot
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: institutionalize your violent family member.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: How dare you we need some options?
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: That'd be nice? That would be nice.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back on normally where we'll talk about
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: the Biden job numbers. Was anything real about the Biden administration?
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Be right back on normally. Welcome back on normally where
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: a giant downward revision of jobs from April twenty twenty
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: four to March twenty twenty five has just taken place,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: and it really makes me think, what the hell's going
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: on over there? I don't understand how this happens.
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: How how do you have an.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Almost one million jobs revised downward? The actual numbers nine
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: hundred and eleven thousand, and that is quite a large
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: number to kind of make an error like nine hundred
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: and eleven sure, nine thousand, okay, almost a million?
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: How does that happen?
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: I just this bothers me immensely and I don't think
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: that I don't think that Trunk deals with it the
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: right way by just like firing people at the Bureau
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: of Labor Statistics.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: But it's clear that we have a problem.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: This is like my issue with the CDC, right, Like
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: I would like to build trust in these stats.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: I would like to know that the stats are real.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Can we please get someone to rationally look through what
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: we're doing who can be.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: Trustworthy and careful and then.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Correct the way that we do this work. And by
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: the way, along the way, you may find that someone
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: at BLS was like, yeah, I put the finger on
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: the scale in the other direction.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right, Like that doesn't surprise me at this point.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Right, we don't know, And that continues to be the
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: problem of the Biden administration. It was so opaque and
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: close to us that we don't know what happened here.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: It's it's baffling, it really is. People have dug up,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: you know, old Biden tweets. Since I took office, we've
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: recovered all the jobs lost during the pandemic and added
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: over six million more. That turns out to be untrue.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: And I don't know. I don't know how people have
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: any trust in anything that.
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: The government says anymore.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: We were lied to for four years about so many
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: different things. And this is why, you know, I'm so
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: not a conspiracy theorist, and I am afraid that conspiracy
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: theories are gripping our country, both on the right and
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: the left. But you could see where they're coming from.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: You could see where they're stemming from. They're like, everybody's
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: lying to us, and we are like, no, not everybody,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: but lots of people.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: It's easier to point out the ones that aren't right.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: We're like, let's make a short list of the ones
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: who aren't lying to you. And that's that's the real
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: issue here. I think that public trust is so broken
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: that I don't know how we recover from it.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's really bad.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Can I point out and I'm going rogue here, but
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: I can I point out another statistics story that I
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: think is important and it is a terrible legacy of
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: the Biden administration because this broke yesterday. The National report
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: Card came out again yesterday and it is devastating. Yeah,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: the decline and this is Wall Street Journal, The decline
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: in American K through twelve public education is getting worse.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: More dispariating evidence came Tuesday with the nation's report card
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: showing a third of high school seniors lack basic reading
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: skills and nearly half can't do rudimentary math.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's the headline. There's so much more in it.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: For instance, the fact that low performing students, as you
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: and I pointed out what happened post pandemic, have fallen
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: off more precipitously than everyone else. That racial gaps have
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: gotten larger as a result, because you hurt those who
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: were hurting.
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, speaking of that, you hurt those.
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: Who were applied accurately more.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: Than those who had more resources.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: And this is we can delve into it more in
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: the future, because I do think it's worth getting into
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: the weeds on it. The top lines are really devastating.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: I am genuinely worried about literacy as a basic sort.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: Of like existential issue for this society.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I absolutely agree. I don't know how we recover from this,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: and I think that the whole I mean, there's so
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: many problems. You know, we could obviously get into all
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: of it, but the fact that we haven't been able
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: to recover to pre pandemic levels is yet more evidence
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: that closing schools was a giant, giant, giant mistake, and
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: nobody's taken responsibility for it. Nobody has said this was wrong,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: we would never do it again. Instead, the people who
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: did it, like Randy Wingarden, are saying that she fought
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: to open schools, which I'm always like, who were you fighting?
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: Who was on the other side of that fight?
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: You know, she's got a.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: New book out, by the way, she's got a new
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: book coming out about how like if I did it? Yeah,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: that's what it should be. It's actually called it's actually
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: called why. I think it's called why Fascists Hate teachers,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: because you know she has to arm everybody to man,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: you quit your job for two years.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: You stopped, right, you stopped.
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: I had a good liberal liberal friend who posted yesterday
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: or two days ago like fascists are always coming for
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: the science first, and I had to respond and I
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: was like, this is this about the COVID years.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we will do some more of that later
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: because I'd like to flesh it out. But that is
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to leave it untouched because it's yet
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: another statistical, uh and and very real crisis from lying
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: by the people.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Stop lying to the people and try to rebuild trust.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know how we do it, but I think
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: that some steps should be taken in that direction.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Well, Kamala is trying to rebuild some trust with her
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: new book. Have more on that normally in a second.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: All right, we're back on normally, and Kamala Harris has
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: a book coming out. It's called One hundred and seven Days.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: It's going to be a real romp, according to the
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: excerpts we've seen thus far, one of which just says like, hey,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: probably shouldn't have run that guy again, in reference to
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden, who was her boss, who was the person
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: that she was VP for, who was the person who
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: she would have been in a position to best assess
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: that he shouldn't run again.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: And yet she didn't say nothing, did she?
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: No, she didn't she.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: The excerpt that The Atlantic got has the quote, was
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: it grace or was it recklessness? In retrospect, I think
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: it was recklessness, Harris writes of her decision not to
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: convince Biden to drop out of the twenty twenty four
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: race earlier. The stakes were simply too high. This wasn't
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: a choice that should have been left an individual's ego,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: an individual's ambition.
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: It should have been more than a personal decision. End quote.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: Here's the thing.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: The reason that Biden ran was because Kamala Harris was
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: going to take his place, and they knew she was
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: going to lose. So she hasn't faced that reality yet.
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: But that's what happened here. I was willing.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: To bet the house that Biden was going to run,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: and the reason was because all of the other ideas
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: of who could replace him, like, oh, they could slip
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: and Gavin newsom, oh.
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: It'll be Jill Biden or whatever.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: I was always like, no, guys, it can only be Kamala.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: She is the only person that it can be and
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: nobody wants that. That's why he's going to run. So
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: you know, Buck Sexton one time was like, we weren't wrong.
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: He did run, just not the whole way.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I agree that I thought the better
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: thing they should have done, probably when they were in
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: a pinch, was like immediately handed off to Kamala. However,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: we all knew that deficiencies were a why she was
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: picked and b why it was bad for her to
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: go forward. Let me also say that she hasn't come
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: to grips with reality. Reality not even just the other
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: point you made. But in the book, in this excerpt,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: it notes the New York Times notes Miss Harris dismissed
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: any notion that mister Biden was not mentally or physically
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: fit to serve as president. Okay, so it was reckless
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: to have him make the decision to run.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: But why why? But why was it reckless?
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Because if there's not a reason, then that doesn't make
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: any sense.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Her answer is at eighty one, Joe got tired. That's
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: when his age showed in physical and verbal stumbles. Like
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: this is just hair splitting to a ridiculous degree. Just
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: to admit it, just to admit actually she should say
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: is admit it?
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: Say everything juicy she saw?
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Say they kept me out of rooms with him because
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: he was so debilitated.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: And I wish I had known more and done more. Yeah,
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: she doesn't be a book. I read.
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: Right again.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Honesty, Honesty would go a long way, and it would
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: help her. In fact, if she could be a more
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: authentic person, she could go places after being vice president.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: It's her inauthenticity that is the problem. In twenty sixteen,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: when she ran for president, I actually wrote a column
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: about how Elizabeth Warren was unlikable, and I was like,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: but nobody's saying that about Kamala Harris because she wasn't unlikable.
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: No, it was different. Then she was different, right, Yeah, she.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Only became unlikable when she started kind of lying about
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: who she was and what she believed and the kind
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: of person that she was. And if she wrote a
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: book and told the truth, I don't know, she could
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: have a future.
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: Maybe.
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: No.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: I look back on moments of my commentary during those
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: years and think there were moments when I thought she
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: was quite good on the stage. I thought she was,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: you know, taking cheap shots sometimes, but she did it effectively, right,
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: And then the bottom just dropped.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: Out on that.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: I also want to point out that she really has
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: this cell phone where she says it's Joe and Jill's decision.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: We all said that like a mantra, as if we'd
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: all been hypnotized. Okay, the last thing I want is
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: a president who can be hypnotized.
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: It's by Jill Biden not interested in that.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: Like you didn't.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: You didn't have the strength to stand up to your
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: peer group and your bosses and say this was bad.
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: Right, So yeah, I was going to say that.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Actually, I think that what happened to her and why
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: she fell apart in such a you know, spectacular fashion,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: is of the problem that's going on on the left.
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: They don't know who they're supposed to be.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: When they say things that they used to believe, you know,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: seven years ago, their left flank comes for them so hard.
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: That they don't know what to say.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: I'm curious to see how any of them run for
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: president in the next you know go around. I mean,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: just an example that comes to mind, you know, in
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: the beginning, when AOC first hit the scene and she
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: does the interview with Margaret Hoover, and she says that
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: she's for a two state solution, and that used to
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: be something that liberals believed in Israel, right, They believed
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: in a two state solution in Israel, one for the
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: for the Israelis, one for the Palestinians now and then
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: she she had to walk that back because the leftists
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: were like.
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: We don't believe that anymore. So who knows what they
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: stand for.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: If you don't know what you stand for, you can't
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: make a strong argument for it. And that is the
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: problem that they're all going to run into. So when
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: the Gavin Newsom's of the world on the debate stage
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: are going to have to talk about, you know, trans
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: kids in sports.
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: He just told Charlie Kirk that.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: He supports, you know, the trans girls not playing.
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: In girls' sports.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Is he going to be able to say that again
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: on a debate stage or that was without saying he
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: hasn't do anything about it, But will he even be
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: able to repeat that without the left going bananas.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: The other example is, of course Abigail Spamberger, who's running
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: in Virginia for governor and may very well win because
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: it's a very purplish blue state with a lot of
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: federal workers. But she's the great normy savior for them, allegedly,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: and she can't even say the thing about boys and
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: girls sports.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: She can't even say the.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Thing about boys and girls locker rooms, or girls and
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: boys locker rooms. In fact, she voted for legislation that
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: endorsed all these things. I think sponsored legislation that endorsed
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: all these things. And in the meantime, she's like, my
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: first act will be to make sure that this is
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: a sanctuary state.
• 33:24
  Speaker 7: Like.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: These things are not in line with the national public
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: for sure, and Democrats like Jon Favreau are going to
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: blame voters for noticing that they believed and kept believing
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: these things.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: He's gonna be like, she hasn't said that in the
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: last three weeks. Well, that doesn't count.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: In the last three weeks exactly right, Well, what does
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: she believe today, Mary Catherine.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the important thing. It's a pickle. They're in
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: a pickle.
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: It is it is.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to see how this turns out. I'm
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: not saying they can't win. I'm not saying they're not
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: going to win races. And Republicans are going to run
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: some bad candidates in some place and I mean not
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: in Virginia but in other places, and they're going to
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: win races and it'll happen. But they don't know who
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: they are, and they can't say. If they do know,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: they still can't say it.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: So we'll see.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: in touch with us at Normallythepod at gmail dot com.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and when things get weird, act normally