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Buffalo Bills: Injury Updates with Banged Up Bills · Built In Buffalo Podcast Network

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[SPEAKER_02]: This episode of First and Five is probably brought to you by Awakened 180.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Bill's my few.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What's going on?
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's Dave Myers from built in Buffalo.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I am the host of first and five your daily podcast to get you up to date on all things bills today.
0:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a guy that I've spoken with several times and I enjoy his insight that he gives on the bill's injury front Kyle Trimble from banged up bills.
1:08
[SPEAKER_02]: How are we doing man?
1:08
[SPEAKER_02]: How's it going?
1:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing real well.
1:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm enjoying the offseason Stample Busy, but I'm looking forward football getting back into swing of things.
1:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's always stuff to talk about, especially now is good to have you on because I think with the bills being back yesterday for the offseason program to get kicked off and then we have OTAs and many kinds of stuff like that.
1:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's always a good time to check back in with stuff that happened in last season and kind of see where these guys might be progressing heading into the upcoming season.
1:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So we got a few players that I want to touch on obviously there's going to be a couple names here that I think everybody wants to know a little bit of information on our
1:45
[SPEAKER_02]: any kind of insight Kyle that you might have and of course the the first one that I want to start with is Dalton Kincade.
1:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I think everybody is familiar with his PCL injury.
1:55
[SPEAKER_02]: It's been two years now that he's been kind of managing this injury and when Joe Brady met with the press at the owner's meetings it was already brought up and I think some Bill's fans got a little scared when he was kind of talking about what sounded like load management.
2:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So from your perspective, where do you think this PCL injury is at?
2:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Is this something, since he opted to not have surgery?
2:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Is this something where we could see like last year, he was kind of, you could tell going through the stages as a season progressed where the bills were put in him on almost like a pitch count or a snap count, things like that.
2:33
[SPEAKER_02]: So what can you kind of tell us if there's any information that you have to kind of get us updated on don't
2:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Concades, the injury has been a lot of twists and turns, quick recap, the injury against Colts back in 2024, diving for an overthrown ball by Josh Allen.
2:54
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a thing that was about three games and came back and had to wear a knee brace or a certain season.
2:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Rehebs and the other season really worked on strengthening, getting stronger, we saw him in the weight room, and we heard all about how he was working on getting his body more hard because that was one of the complaints about him that his body just wasn't up to snuff yet.
3:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So it comes in to training camp is doing fine, injured with a collision between Matt Melano.
3:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was Christian Batonford, early in training camp.
3:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Missed like one practice, and then he re-injusted it again, while he's rehabbing from a hamstring strain, suffocates my Amy in like we tend.
3:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So I missed a few games as a result of that, and we find that the knee is just kind of gotten a through.
3:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had heard that there was wronglings that he was gonna need surgery, which won't be surprising, given that he'd resurrect the knee in 2024.
3:39
[SPEAKER_01]: injured again in 2025 and then we hear during the Joshua press conference that he's not getting surgery or something.
3:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Joshua and press conference the Joe Bready press conference when he was in that side coach.
3:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So here that he wasn't getting surgery is really surprising because he's hearing how long this is lingered.
3:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Normally, the PCL is not repaired because it stops the knee from going backwards, it's not as important as it's a cousin or brother, whichever way you want to look at at the ACL.
4:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And it does have a bare blood supply, it can scar down and heal up, but when a ligament is sniffly injured enough, I feel it doesn't need to be repaired.
4:18
[SPEAKER_01]: He did go out to get second opinions from what Brandon being told us and they said they don't want to get the surgery.
4:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Once again, after he suffered this injury in 2024, I was okay with him not needing it, because the research shows you don't need to do a surgery.
4:30
[SPEAKER_01]: But when he kept on re-endering it, it was really affecting his ability to be out there.
4:33
[SPEAKER_01]: That's when it said, hey, we need the surgery.
4:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I had heard, yeah, through the other grapevine, that there was toxic surgery.
4:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And ultimately, I don't know if it was, he decided not to, or if the surgeon said that he didn't need to, I would imagine the surgeon's led him to that decision where he did not want to get to the new surgery.
4:50
[SPEAKER_01]: There outcomes are pretty good.
4:53
[SPEAKER_01]: There is an issue with residual laxity if he did get the surgery and they only indicate the surgery if there's multi ligament tears in there or if there's a significant laxity where there's knee is unstable.
5:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So either the knee is stable enough to where they say, hey, you don't need surgery or they're saying, hey, this thing's okay, you rehab it.
5:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And then if it gets worse, so we'll fix it.
5:15
[SPEAKER_01]: We saw Gabe Davis when he was with the bills and then went over Jacksonville.
5:18
[SPEAKER_01]: He tore his knee up pretty good before he came back to us.
5:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But going off all that there,
5:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, my concern is what are they gonna do differently this year that they did last year because he would have been rehabbing this injury as pre-existing.
5:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Where are they gonna do differently?
5:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I know the only thing that they're doing differently is he's not with the bill's facility.
5:38
[SPEAKER_01]: He's in, you know, he's in, or in four OTAs, but he was rehabbing elsewhere.
5:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's another California, which I know is some really good therapists out there.
5:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So what's he doing differently out there that they didn't do up in Buffalo?
5:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
5:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we'll find more about that.
5:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you should have gotten surgery, but I also don't know the information and I do respect what the surgeons are, you know, trainers and PT's are saying because they have to know more about that because they're working to NFL and I'm not.
6:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think there's some part of the fan base that there's a little cost for concern because this is now two years in a row where arguably your best pass-catching offensive weapon can not be available when we need them to be available because we can we've seen when he's out there.
6:25
[SPEAKER_02]: He's he's
6:26
[SPEAKER_02]: is a huge asset for this offense.
6:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess there's something we'll just have to keep monitoring and obviously we'll check in with you for updates because I know you'll have them as as we progress through OTAs and mini camp and training camp and stuff like that.
6:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm going to surprise sorry I won't be surprised if we do see him at beyond that load management like
6:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want him to be, but if that's how you're going to get him through season, maybe the knee naturally heals up great, but I'm real hesitant to give him contract or extension till he proved that that knee is ready to go.
6:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the bill did pick up his 50 or option, which is only a little over $8 million.
7:02
[SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, that was a no-brainer to have to have that guy.
7:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's talk about Ed Oliver, because Ed Oliver dealt with some injuries last year.
7:09
[SPEAKER_02]: He had the the torn-lift bicep.
7:11
[SPEAKER_02]: He had the meniscest damage that he suffered while he was rehabbing.
7:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there now we saw him come back and play.
7:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there a situation where you think at Oliver is not going to be ready to go for training camp and then the season or do you think that by now time enough time has gone by to where edge should be good recovering from both of those injuries, what's what your thoughts there.
7:33
[SPEAKER_01]: He should be fully good to go.
7:34
[SPEAKER_01]: There should be no hesitation, especially with the biceps, and then with the knee, he got pulled out during the Broncos game, like he played like the first half, and then he got pulled out for some reason.
7:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they did say it was knee, but we never gave reports that he had to get the knee cleaned out again or anything else, I mean, he's been on social media enough that I haven't seen where he's been laid up at all because of the knee.
7:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's no reason why he shouldn't be ready to go for training camp, and then he should be able to participate with OTAs and no problem.
8:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure they're watching the knee, just to make shows nine problems with that.
8:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, a little fraying is not a big deal with that.
8:05
[SPEAKER_01]: They clearly know that.
8:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to be a big care where they prepare it.
8:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That's when you see, instead of missed time.
8:10
[SPEAKER_01]: But the biceps are really like, nothing they never happen again.
8:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, it's a really low percentage.
8:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And it healed and it's able to come back and play.
8:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It was incredibly, incredibly fast, you know, timeline to come back there.
8:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was more rehab and just letting things continue to get stronger.
8:25
[SPEAKER_01]: There shouldn't be any future problems.
8:27
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like he plays through that.
8:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it things that mechanism of injury to happen again, so it's not like he's going to come back to soon and tear it out because he's at a higher risk like we see with ACL tears or some other things like that there.
8:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's going to be good to go and it's just so fortunate what happened last year, but it's also a testament to the training staff and his work ethic that he's able to come back as quickly dead.
8:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think a lot of what got swept out of the rug was the training staff and the ability to get him back as soon as he was able to come back because you had the biceps injury, and then you had obviously the meniscus issues, so that's the testament to the bills training staff.
9:04
[SPEAKER_02]: We've heard a lot about the bills training staff over the past couple of years because of all the injuries and the long grocery list that seems like that we see every week during the season of the injuries, but there are they do
9:18
[SPEAKER_02]: A really good job, especially with things like with Dalton concave with the load management, and especially with that Oliver with, you know, the injuries that he's coming back from all right.
9:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So fan favorite Tyrell shivers.
9:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, torn ACL.
9:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Pretty gruesome looking injury.
9:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, everyone's ACL is different.
9:35
[SPEAKER_02]: We all know that and.
9:37
[SPEAKER_02]: NFL players, time tables are always different.
9:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So what can you tell us about Tyrell Shivers?
9:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Can we expect to see him sometime this summer?
9:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think that this is something that's going to bleed into the season?
9:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Like what's your thoughts and information that you can share with about Tyrell Shivers?
9:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, as a crab ball to find out, they towards ACL and the playoff game and the continue play.
9:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he probably knew that that that self is incredible.
10:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you do hear about that with like Tommy Doyle to that few years ago with like a handful of plays left and then hear about guys sometimes kind of gut it out with a little bit filth servers to that 20 years ago, which is crazy thing about.
10:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
10:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It's unfortunate that happened.
10:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounded like it was a pretty clean ACL tear or at least a partial ACL tear.
10:19
[SPEAKER_01]: This happened in the second quarter and he missed part of the time and came back all very stuff we found that later.
10:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So knowing the timeline with that, he had surgery pretty quickly after the injury happened which is uncommon.
10:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we do see sometimes where the swelling isn't too bad.
10:35
[SPEAKER_01]: and then they want to get ahead of it be with the timelines there, but we're talking this happened in late late January.
10:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I think first week of February, I can't find the exact time frame where I had written down at, but you're looking at at least nine months before he can even start doing football related things.
10:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Now during rehab, they're doing all this stuff, like trying to get ran back up, but they know if you returned before nine months, there was a higher risk to retire and they're not going to do that.
10:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I've not seen the bills do that at all with anybody with an ACL.
11:02
[SPEAKER_01]: As soon as I've been a cover in the team, which they've always been for that nine month mark, and then they slowly ramp him back up there even more.
11:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I think Von Miller might have been the fastest one we saw, but he was really pushing, you know, for different reasons to be an older, you know, run now on time there.
11:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So, looking at Tyrell, I mean, you're looking at maybe October where we start seeing, maybe do something, this is probably a stern pop, and then you might see him come back in maybe,
11:26
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, November, December the earliest and keep in mind, he's not going to do the things he was doing before and he wasn't a huge part of the offense, you know, with a receiving game, but he was key on special team.
11:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So we can see him kind of workers way back in, but he's going to be a break glass in case emergency.
11:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to rip him up when you need him.
11:44
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not going to necessarily come back.
11:46
[SPEAKER_01]: as fast as you can they're going to you know make sure he's fully ready and then there's not going to be any risk to retire more so than than there are he is so so fortunate just the time of it but I mean if he plays as hard as if he rehabs as hard as he plays like he did you know plan through the ACL tier and then we'll come back and then we'll see it even better Tyrell Shavers in 2020 seven.
12:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine I had a Maniska surgery last year now.
12:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not in football shape and I'm not younger, but I can't imagine playing, you know, a combat of sport with, you know, that injury and just a testament to how tough that guy really is.
12:22
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
12:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's talk about Toro Bernard.
12:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Is everybody knows he had right ankle surgery.
12:26
[SPEAKER_02]: He kind of announced that on social media.
12:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like he was kind of playing through this most of the season and he could tell was affecting his play, you know, the speed wasn't there that we saw in the the 2020 four seasons.
12:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So kind of walk me through what what you know about Toro Bernard and his right ankle surgery and maybe where he's at in recovery process and if you think he's going
12:50
[SPEAKER_01]: his injury like we talked about Doug and Kate and that was another one that's lingering for a long time there.
12:55
[SPEAKER_01]: He had originally heard the injury or originally heard the ankle back in 2024, no 2023 against the Los Angeles Chargers.
13:04
[SPEAKER_01]: He had tweet his ankle and then he played against them and play against the Pittsburgh Steelers and the playoffs and that's where he actually dislocated his ankle and he told us that.
13:14
[SPEAKER_01]: and then he didn't get surgery and then continued to play through it and then last year it was kind of okay and then this year he did something just set it off again and we knew that he had had issues with his hamstrings during the year and then he had Andrew's ankle against I think it was the Falcons I mean I have it's all the web website if you want to go back and look for the exact details but it's amazing how long he played through this thing and at some point the ankle just got
13:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Mayor Turner of cover one had posted that Traubernard had posted those pictures up on Instagram and based off of the Scar presentation and we know what the injury was because he basically told us what happened what it was going on.
13:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought he suffered the
13:57
[SPEAKER_01]: tears to the anterior tail of fibrillar ligament, the calcaneal fibrillar ligament, and then the dad toyed ligament on the inside.
14:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And once he had told us some of that stuff that he had subluxed the ankle, it had some damage to it, and then based on the scarlocation tells us that he had surgery to the area there.
14:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So he, without getting into too much details, he basically had everything tightened back up and repaired so the ankle had stability.
14:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure the ankle flopped around and probably rolled on my crazy and every time it rolled on it just created more damage and just made it more and more difficult to push off there.
14:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So we saw that in the film where he wasn't able to move around as well as he wanted to lack the live explosion.
14:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't care how much bracing tape ever they all saw in there when that ankle is that stable or any joint for that matter You just cannot get the explosion off that area.
14:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So we don't know that he was at OTAs.
14:46
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't see a picture of him But it's only been one day, but he might still be rehabbing and you know, workers way back there.
14:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So Once he gets back out there, they'll become measures are pretty good.
14:58
[SPEAKER_01]: The
14:59
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... procedure to return fifty-four fifty-four percent fifty-four percent of athletes uh... with eight percent satisfied with their outcomes uh... and then uh... failure rates they were between five and twenty-eight percent uh... but most people were able to come back and do pretty well knowing these and they'll athlete he has best surgeons in a rehab uh... available to him he's gonna come back and do pretty well
15:23
[SPEAKER_01]: We see another guy's like, I think it was time on Jones years ago, had gotten that done.
15:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes the ankles just get so beat up that they need to be fixed, and I'm sure they're trekking the can down the road as long as it can, and if I get to the point where it is affecting his play, but we should see him come back and hopefully become less injured this year.
15:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Though he's had other injuries, such as the hamstrings that they mentioned, the discate elbow among other things that are his career.
15:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think he's going to be good to go for training camp and the season and everything is good to go, you think?
15:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, considering the scars he posted, like what the scar healing looked like at that time, and then no one there probably might get that done as soon as they could, no one at the timeline.
16:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't find off top my head here where it is, but I want to say it was like six to eight months for that, but it's, you know, let's see, full, no.
16:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's somewhere in my article.
16:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I write too much there for six months, so it's like six to eight, but you should be good to go for trading camp without really a hesitation when he does get back out there in late July.
16:23
[SPEAKER_02]: That's good because obviously with him signing that big contract extension, the bills are going to need to have him be as close to if not 100 percent, you know, for much of this season as possible, especially with the new defense that the bills are going to be putting out there.
16:36
[SPEAKER_02]: So, all right, let's talk about Spencer Brown, and I think when I mentioned Spencer Brown
16:41
[SPEAKER_02]: When I went over the show notes, you asked me, do we want to talk about the shoulder?
16:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And I said, well, we'll talk about the back end the shoulder.
16:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think there's a little bit of concern out there in the bills, fandom that Spencer Brown could be dealing with this back situation for the better part of his career.
17:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, you can tell me that that's correct and correct or if that's something that we just need to monitor.
17:06
[SPEAKER_02]: But then obviously, let's talk about his shoulder as well
17:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Where that could be heading into recovery 100% what that looks like as far as rehab and things like that.
17:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So what's your thoughts first?
17:19
[SPEAKER_02]: You could we could talk about the back because we know he's had back issues earlier on when after he was drafted.
17:25
[SPEAKER_02]: That's when the back stuff was happening.
17:27
[SPEAKER_02]: He kind of I think he's played pretty healthy and played at a high level.
17:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And then obviously the shoulder injury this past season.
17:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So what's your thoughts overall on Spencer Brown with the back and the shoulder?
17:40
[SPEAKER_01]: The back, we know that he had a flare up at the beginning training camp, they kept him out for a little bit, and he'd even sent to the meeting goes, hey, this stuff is happening more than you guys report on and whatnot there.
17:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it is one of the things like we know it, we know he had the micro-desectomy, we know he's a crudley tall, and he is big.
17:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's well proportioned, so it's not like he carries all his weight in his belly, where that's going to really put less stress on the low back among other things there.
18:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But the issue is just, he's a big tall guy, it's been down a lot.
18:10
[SPEAKER_01]: you're going to see like guys with back issues as assignment like there's a big issues like don't draft the linemen.
18:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean they they know it's no an issue that they have everything offensive and defensive linemen.
18:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I know offensive linemen for sure at least they undergo a x-ray at the combat and a lumber x-ray to at least look at the quality of the back and that's how they found D on walkers back in your last year.
18:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So
18:32
[SPEAKER_01]: We know it's a thing.
18:33
[SPEAKER_01]: We know that when you start getting micro-disacted means that you sometimes reduce the vertebral body height, that can also put stress on the other vertebral bodies and on the desk.
18:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So it would be surprised me if he has some degenerative changes in there, but he's also playing football.
18:49
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got a lot of money.
18:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's going to sign up for that.
18:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I think anybody would.
18:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So
18:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he's going to pop up on the injury board again.
18:57
[SPEAKER_01]: He's going to maybe have some flare ups where it just locks up on him.
18:59
[SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be some things in that.
19:01
[SPEAKER_01]: But his injury concerns, his plan to field outweigh those injury concerns was put that way.
19:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I was going to say about trouble in our earlier when he signed that contract, his plan to field outweigh those injury concerns, and then it kind of balance out last year.
19:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Right now, Spencer Brown shows he can still play.
19:18
[SPEAKER_01]: He can still play pretty well.
19:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just something to get the modern.
19:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It's something that he's aware of.
19:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, could a fusion be down the line?
19:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Could they do a artificial dis-replacement?
19:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not aware of that they're doing his money for Lombar as they are for cervical.
19:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Because they're having big ears.
19:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you'd want to do that.
19:33
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, there's probably future problems down the line.
19:35
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's, you know, that's future Spencer Brown's problem, I guess.
19:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I don't want anybody freaking out that there's going to be a back problem.
19:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's, you know, he didn't really have anything coming in.
19:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And for, um,
19:46
[SPEAKER_01]: into the pros with this or even high school.
19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: He was pretty good from what I recall before I sat in the contract from what I have here.
19:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It just sometimes you need to, you know, it just comes with a territory with him.
19:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
20:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to dismiss it saying it's nothing, but I also don't want to lean into it.
20:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's a big problem.
20:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, well, when it gets to be too much from the entire tire, but I mean, he's still pretty young.
20:11
[SPEAKER_01]: He has a good handle on it.
20:12
[SPEAKER_01]: They know how to manage this thing.
20:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think there's going to be an issue moving for other than occasional flare ups, which.
20:18
[SPEAKER_01]: We find out guys have problems all the time that we don't hear about.
20:21
[SPEAKER_01]: That's for a shoulder.
20:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought he had torn his leg room.
20:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he was just right shoulder that he injured against the Texans and he was trying to block and he just couldn't get the job done.
20:30
[SPEAKER_01]: He had to miss a few games after that.
20:32
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't get any surgery from what I've seen because he's been on a million podcasts.
20:35
[SPEAKER_01]: He's been out golf and he's been doing everything.
20:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes with those leg room tears, if it was that, sometimes they're small enough where they just let things scar down,
20:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Laboral chairs in offensive and defense linemen pretty common just when it gets to the point where it's so unstable in there where you just get surgery so he's done well with the previous one he had I think two or three years ago.
20:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a matter of you know just deal with it and kind of get back up there if the bracelet but
21:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a duraday thing, but he was an off-danger guy that's reason why he fell the third round.
21:06
[SPEAKER_01]: On top of him playing a smaller school coming out college, but he's shown he's worth the money and I, you know, I'm willing to bet that he's going to continue to play in a high level for at least a few more years before he sets up worried about that contract being a huge anchor on what the offense line and the bill stew as a whole there.
21:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think Spencer Brown is a guy that, you know, he's protecting that right side of the bill is lying and that's a guy that we often want to talk about because he is, we've seen him play at a high level and then you can tell like you mentioned that Texan's game where you could tell something wasn't right you could tell that there something it just felt like that he just couldn't get off right and there were things like that that just seemed like it was bothering him but we definitely need him to be healthy.
21:48
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
21:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's talk about Tyler Bass and guy that we didn't see at all in 2025, because of the pelvic injury and he had pelvic surgery, I think a lot of bills fans were surprised this past off season that the bills restructure just contract to kind of make the numbers a little bit more, you know, like not as big as they were for a kicker, especially a guy coming off a or he missed an entire year with an injury.
22:19
[SPEAKER_02]: What can he tell us about the pelvic injury, specifically since he is a kicker, obviously we need his leg and his lower body to be healthy.
22:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So what can he tell us about Tyler Bass and what we can expect?
22:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I've seen reports saying that he should be good to go.
22:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, I want to ask your expertise because he did miss the whole year.
22:39
[SPEAKER_02]: They put him on IR, obviously.
22:41
[SPEAKER_02]: we brought in Matt Prater and we know that whole story.
22:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So what's your thoughts on Tyler Bass and his future with the bills going forward here training camp and into the season?
22:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we know they brought other kickers in, so there's going to be a competition and the way the restructure of the contract, he's going to be able to be caught if he just simply isn't the best leg.
23:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's good.
23:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I think everybody needs competition with anything you do in life, so we'll see what happens.
23:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, go to training camp whatnot.
23:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But go back to what fast was, he got through about the first week of training camp and then started out with some what they called pelvic disorders.
23:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's all they kept it as until they
23:18
[SPEAKER_01]: got to train a week one and then it did specify what side now with hunters, kickers and quarterbacks, you have to specify which side is which side is the injured side just because that affects betting lines integrity, transparency, all that stuff like that there.
23:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So we at least I think it was a left hip and then growing or whatever.
23:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So he tried going and had some type of setback during that before the first game and then that's where the brought Matt Prater and on that red eye.
23:45
[SPEAKER_01]: and then he was shut down and then there was talks about him.
23:48
[SPEAKER_01]: He might be welcome back and there's never happened there.
23:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So I never got clear picture on what this was.
23:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was the OCA's pubis.
23:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It was basically where the pubis services, it becomes irritated.
23:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like this disc in between the pelvic bones that help connect everything.
24:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It looks like a little disc if you look at a anatomy book.
24:07
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's a piece of carolage or so that could be irritated and they can do injections, they can do surgery.
24:12
[SPEAKER_01]: The gold standard is rehab trikit that's in calm down.
24:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So my bet was they shunned down for a few weeks to try to get him right.
24:19
[SPEAKER_01]: He played that Tampa Bay game, was okay, and then something else set this thing off.
24:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they probably are trying more rehab.
24:27
[SPEAKER_01]: They can do injections.
24:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I did see a talk that's in February.
24:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And there is a guy who's talking about core muscle injuries.
24:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, he goes, most guys will let you do one injection.
24:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Try to get to better.
24:38
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, most guys won't let you do two, though.
24:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's how he phrased it there.
24:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's think about the,
24:46
[SPEAKER_01]: the pubic area of any male or female interest try put big needle into that area.
24:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody's letting you do that multiple times unless you're right here.
24:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's basically who's getting out there.
24:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wonder if they're trying injections, it wasn't getting better.
24:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they had said that they had to go undergo surgery at the end of November.
25:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And
25:05
[SPEAKER_01]: It never was clear what it was until Brandon Bean said he has sports area.
25:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can't play through sports area as core muscle injuries And you can still do fairly well like guys can play on them for a while and then they find hey, I can get this thing fixed here because they just lose a lot of power So I wonder if they're just trying to see hey can we get you back out there can get you playing can you get you doing something and then it just never really took and then
25:27
[SPEAKER_01]: The core muscle injury, Brandon Brian says about the sports tournament, which suggests that because they did say that he would have been able to potentially be able to play and the support will have the bills made at that far.
25:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So if this wasn't D to core muscle injury, I wonder why they didn't get fixed sooner because the timelines for a turn are pretty quick with those, it just comes down to retouching everything and that everything's scar down, but
25:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes you try to get guys back sooner and then kicking the can down row longer than it should be.
25:55
[SPEAKER_01]: But what I'm getting at is they have excellent return to play and then there's really not to meet issues.
26:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure if there's any lingering issues in there that they went fixed everything up.
26:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Could have happened.
26:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, he's kicking position.
26:07
[SPEAKER_01]: That can happen in a lot of positions like we see with defense linemen or guys that really
26:12
[SPEAKER_01]: use it once had to, you know, get out, explode off the side of the line, you know, such as defense of end or, you know, in kicking or or punting.
26:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So, saying all of that, he should be good to go.
26:25
[SPEAKER_01]: This could miss something that's lingering for a lot longer, and they found his career's ugly had in 2025, but, um, he has a big Targarna's back.
26:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I hope that somebody pushes him and makes him be the best kicker to Ken because we are still paying a lot of money even though that they did restructure his contract.
26:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we'll see what happens when, you know, when training camp comes around like you said they brought in some competition for them and like competition makes the cream rest of the top.
26:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So all right, another fan favorite a guy who we were all excited about when the bills signed him and then we saw him play we waited six weeks for him to play and then we saw him play a game and a half or were like, oh my gosh, this guy's the greatest thing since I spread Michael Hoyt.
27:05
[SPEAKER_02]: ACL.
27:06
[SPEAKER_02]: torn Achilles, and I feel like as you alluded to earlier with with Tyrell Shavers, this guy's a freak athlete, right?
27:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like we always want to think the best as far as, while he's going to push the envelope on return, and this happened possibly early enough into the season where he could be ready to go by the time.
27:27
[SPEAKER_02]: training camp or the season rolls around.
27:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So what is a realistic return based on the information that you have for Michael Hoyt, because I do think with this new defense that Jim Lenin is going to install.
27:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he's going to be a huge part of what they want to do.
27:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, he's been signed for multiple years, the bills in Brandon Bean want him to be a part of the future of that defense.
27:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So what's your thoughts on Michael Hoyt and what can we expect going
27:56
[SPEAKER_01]: He should be good to go week one, barring setbacks.
27:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I know he was on the air-quid podcast.
28:00
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about the ready full clear and go by July 1st.
28:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's still, I'll say on the aggressive side of things that it's not like he was saying he's going to come back in five months like we saw with that Ram is running back a few years ago, who came back to play in a certain bowl.
28:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's not like that.
28:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But the average time is about 11 months to come back, which we'll put them about.
28:20
[SPEAKER_01]: about october because he did tear an early November and then, but you figure there's working hard, they had enough time to get this thing going.
28:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's realistic, you could be ready to go for a train camp.
28:31
[SPEAKER_01]: If he does turn on a pop, it's going to be like, for a week or two, I can't imagine he's going to be on the for a long time.
28:35
[SPEAKER_01]: But keep in mind, even if he does return and he's free and clear for, you know, they want a training camp, he's not going to the same player.
28:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the Achilles is a big rubber band.
28:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's really, really stiff right now, I mean, it's stiff that we don't want to overstructure it and then you cause lasty in the area of the loose power that way, but you also wouldn't just that stiff, you're not going to get as much power pushing off that either so it's going to take some time to get build back up there.
29:01
[SPEAKER_01]: They there is a decline in games played a shorter career length little babies on three or you know deal with us there and then you know there's a 22% net decrease and power among all positions some of the research is like there's a lot out there but sometimes.
29:17
[SPEAKER_01]: for specifically for defense linemen.
29:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't go down that specific for that there.
29:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So basically what I'm getting at is he's not going to be the pre-endry Michael Hoyt for 2026.
29:27
[SPEAKER_01]: 2027 was under contract.
29:29
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a different story than maybe start talking about a contract extension.
29:32
[SPEAKER_01]: He does bounce back there.
29:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So if he does start rounding back into form, it's going to have the season, which is where we're going to need him at, you know injuries, and then just
29:42
[SPEAKER_01]: At temporary expectations on Hoy, it's not saying that he's not working hard, just these things take time to get back.
29:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Some guys come back a little bit quicker and play like they'd never left and other guys just take a little bit of time to get back up there.
29:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So, he should be good to go barring setbacks, it just comes down to just rounding back into form and that's a time thing you can't speed it back up and just get pre-insured level all the time.
30:04
[SPEAKER_01]: We started with Von Miller with his ACL and it's just was a fortune and we see what he does when he gets a wash and then, you know, we're not going to worry about that with the Hoyt unless they decide to cut them, but I think you said that patience with them and say, hey, you know, what's stick with it, he can contribute and then, you know, it can be, you know, bad on the second half of season for awfully deep play I've pushed.
30:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I definitely what I want to emphasize what you said about we need to temper our expectations because we've seen this story before with a lot of players in the NFL where we're hyping them coming back and then we're like the sky is not playing like he usually does and then you see as time progresses because we don't like to be patient as as football fans that but as time progresses.
30:46
[SPEAKER_02]: We see those guys kind of retake that form of what they were before the injury, but like you said, this takes time and a lot of the stuff that I've seen out there in research as far as the ACL injuries, it's usually the second year is where you were like, okay, there he is like now he's back to who he was before.
31:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm with the Achilles and some other stuff I just was lower by things they just.
31:09
[SPEAKER_01]: They take time to tell a tendon, quad tendon, I mean, just some of the things you cannot speed up and there's difference between return back to normal activity, you know, we can worry about things and then play at NFL and it just takes longer.
31:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's why sometimes you see high school kids come back and play just as well because they were already step ahead of the competition.
31:27
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, now at NFL everybody's, you know, there's still differences, but everybody's at closer level than, you know, head and shoulders above everybody else.
31:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so all right, last but certainly not least, the conversation, all off season was about Josh Allen and his foot and what actually happened, what was really going on, how long was he playing through it?
31:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So talk to me about Josh Allen's foot injury and exactly what the injury was.
31:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody said that he's going to be ready to go.
32:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, we saw him in the building yesterday.
32:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But I want to attack this conversation a little bit differently.
32:12
[SPEAKER_02]: What does this do to Josh Allen?
32:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we've seen him be a warrior.
32:17
[SPEAKER_02]: We've seen all the injuries that he's fought through.
32:20
[SPEAKER_02]: The broken hand, the UCL.
32:22
[SPEAKER_02]: We've seen all the stuff that he's fought through.
32:25
[SPEAKER_02]: But we're talking about a guy who relies a lot on his legs to extend plays, rushing aspect of it.
32:33
[SPEAKER_02]: a food injury.
32:34
[SPEAKER_02]: First, kind of let me know what the food injury is and then kind of let me know what long-term ramifications possibly this could have for a guy that bases a lot of what he does on his mobility like what's what your thoughts on Josh's recovery and all that other stuff that goes along with it.
32:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So, like I said, we saw him in the building yesterday.
32:52
[SPEAKER_01]: He's out participating, and they're not doing too much during phase 108 days, but he's back out there, which is a good sign.
32:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And just a quick recap of the injury he had had a volition of the fifth-minute tarsal, so it's basically a volition of fractures to say.
33:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is basically where we're a small chip of the bone chips off somewhere in there.
33:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Usually with the very rate and sometimes the tendon pulls that chunk of bone off there and it just can wiggle around in there or you just don't have a strong connection to the tendon.
33:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So even mine, the tendon is as a damage, it's just pulled a chunk of the bone off.
33:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And he had injured this bridge and injured this against the browns when he's doing that stupid
33:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Dan's, I don't know, he's doing the toward the end zone or trying to see it miles Garrett, and he gave up, I think, like 20 something yards, and that's where he kind of rolled over his own foot, and they're giving us some clues in the media with the and rap, or I'm chef for what not, saying this is an old bone injury, which gave us our first clue about this, because
33:49
[SPEAKER_01]: He injured it, I think like two weeks later, against Philadelphia, rolled the ankle pretty good and can't need a little attention to that.
33:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And then with their old bone injury, I thought he had actually ridged and suffered it back against Houston Texan's previous year and they called that an ankle at the time because I went through and no one all the stuff I do, he's only had to make ankle injuries.
34:06
[SPEAKER_01]: One was an ankle spray and they somehow played through a few years ago.
34:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And this other one was where he tweaked the ankle and he was kind of okay with that.
34:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So
34:14
[SPEAKER_01]: how you suffer this type of injury is you kind of roll the ankle.
34:17
[SPEAKER_01]: You're just a great your garden variety of low ankle spray and you can see a basketball at night.
34:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So this was enough to chip the bone and was probably rattle around in there and caused a lot of inflammation, pain, he probably had shots, tape and the heck out of it just check its ability and then he's going to play through it because he's Josh Allen.
34:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean if anything this injury shows he's a little bit of mortal but I mean he's still going to play through everything there's going to be zero concerns
34:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I did hear something about there might be some small ligament damage in there, I mean, if it rolls ankle there, that wouldn't be surprising, but you'll get off the foot for a little bit, you rehab it, I don't see there's any problems with it, and then, you know, just zero concerns move forward.
34:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, as going into how he's going to play, I hope these are going to start taking
35:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Not more care of the ball.
35:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's pretty good about taking care of the ball, but like you might see him making, you know, smarter decisions, maybe not rushing as much, but you also came to shut that off either.
35:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Josh Allen.
35:11
[SPEAKER_01]: He's going to run, but maybe he saves that for more key moments, and then saves more in the pocket, but we also know that guys get more serious injuries in the pocket than if they rush and there's there's some good data about that out there.
35:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I just hope he keeps playing and we get a certain bowl before he has some of the knocks him out there.
35:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I know he just plays like he's immortal, but we know he is a human and just hopefully that we get some wins out of the most.
35:46
[SPEAKER_01]: If you cheap ships for something happens where he says, I got hanging up because the engines are too much there.
35:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So knock on wood, we're not going to be problems with that, but going to 26, I think
36:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, longest active starting streak among all quarterbacks.
36:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing if I'm being honest with you because I hate to talk about this out loud because I don't know if that's a streak that can come to an end because all streaks end, right?
36:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because of the play style of Josh Allen, that's the only thing that concerns me.
36:25
[SPEAKER_02]: But I also know that he's made completely different.
36:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Whatever he's made out of is not like a normal person like you and me like he's he's built different and I'm just very fortunate that he's on he's on our team.
36:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So kind of work and we find all your work your articles and work and they follow you on social media and stuff like that before we get out here.
36:47
[SPEAKER_01]: If I remember, basically, I'm on X, Instagram, Facebook, read it at BangaBills, so it's easy to find there.
36:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You find all my work at BangaBills.com.
36:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I had to do some work in the off-season for cover one during draft content.
37:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been a little delayed on that working on something else I've been doing, so I haven't anything out there, but you guys will find a lot of work I do at DL fantasy, look at a fancy football content.
37:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Find me each other week during the season
37:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's everywhere.
37:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I really did my toe into pretty much everywhere I can if you can't find me, then I don't know what's wrong with you because I feel like I'm everywhere, but if you just type in the player, bang the bill, you're going to be able to find the article pretty quickly, you can go through my site and find everything.
37:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I just isn't that really enjoyed doing.
37:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I find that's a lot of new ones to the injuries.
37:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just OACL.
37:41
[SPEAKER_01]: He's going to be back in Ann Monsboom.
37:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a work as a plan through.
37:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It's amazing the breadcrumbs that we see in hindsight with these different injuries.
37:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And I try to just pick up the breadcrumbs and put everything together to least provide the most clear picture on how the team operates, how players are playing through things, and what they're dealing with.
37:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So it gives the proper context as to why your favorite player maybe is playing great or why they're not playing great.
38:04
[SPEAKER_01]: However thing is moving forward so we can know it to expect each and every week.
38:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I was talking to Kyle before we came out.
38:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to try to, it's busy this guy is, I'm going to try to get him on here regularly during the season with on first and five in Billton Buffalo.
38:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Because there's a lot of news that comes out on social media, but if you want the information that you really want to digest, that's where Kyle and banged up bills is going to come in key, especially when we're all concerned about the bills injury list and players and reports and stuff like that.
38:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Read his articles.
38:39
[SPEAKER_02]: It's always great information.
38:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So for Kyle, banged up bills.
38:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm Dave Myers.
38:44
[SPEAKER_02]: This has been first and five and we will see you guys on the next one.
38:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Go bills.