Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Police Association President Paul McCue is embracing funding for a Public Order Response unit, but is concerned about what level of training they'll be receiving

Transcript

Police Association President Paul McCue is embracing funding for a Public Order Response unit, but is concerned about what level of training they'll be receiving · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Because joining me on the line right now is the
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Police Association president Paul Mchughue.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Paul.
• 0:07
  Speaker 3: Good morning Katie here you going, yeah, really.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Well, good to have you on the show as always. Now, Paul,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: I know that the Association is calling for more detail
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to be provided after the files government's plan to spend
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: two million dollars on a public order response unit to
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: target anti social behavior was announced earlier in the week.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Paul, what's the worry here?
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I don't think anyone's begrudging the community wanting
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: to make sure we're doing everything we can to curb
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: antisocial behavior and the like. And we know businesses have
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: been doing it tough for a long time and there's
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: been a lot of crime. But what we don't want
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: to see, of course, and we don't have a lot
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: of the detail at this stage around what this particular
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: proposal looks like. We're investing two million into a public
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: order response unit, we don't know really essentially what that's
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: going to be made up of. We don't want to
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: see second tier policing out onto our streets. If their
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: issue on the street, that the police response capability issue.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: If we are needing more police. That's where the money
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: should be invested first and foremost. But you know, as
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: I said, we're not taking away anything in terms of
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: what the community need, but we want to make sure
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: people are out there with the right training, the right
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: skills and to deal with some very very difficult situations
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: which evolve on the street. And really without the details
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: it's proposal, it's very difficult tonight.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Well, and Paul, I think a lot of us just
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: sort of assumed as well, probably that you know that
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: this units, this public order response in it was actually
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: going to be with.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: The territory police. But what is your understanding?
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, obviously, you know, the police have worked
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: in partnership for a long time with various different agencies,
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: and you know, we know the announcement talks about youth
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: engagement coming more and more in house with police so
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: to speak. And look, no one begrudges that, of course,
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: but we've got transit security, we've got public housing safety offices.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is not a new concept. But what
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: I'm fearful of, and some of the information I've received
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: is there are actually units driving around on the street
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: as public order response. I even understand there's a unit
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: driving around in Palmerston which has dogs with them and
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: they're responding to social awe issues. Now, I mean that
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: just sends a whole lot of concerns straight away to
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: us about who these people are, what their training is,
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: and what we don't want to see is them be
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: put in danger because the end of the day, they
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: could become victims themselves if they're not actually under direct supervision.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Well, the Lord Mayor of Darwin convat Scalas yesterday called
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: for more police, you know, to be patrolling the area.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: He wants to see more boots on the ground. Paul,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: is that where we should be investing one hundred percent?
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, police are there to serve and
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: protect the community. They are the ones that people call
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: on generally when there are issues in the community, whether
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: it be a and behavior or break ins or car accidents,
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: you name it, it's the police that get called. Now,
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: quite clearly, we don't have enough on the street. If
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: we're starting to set up various different units like this
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: without a clear understanding of their roles and responsibilities. Now,
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: if that has taken place, and we're not saying you know,
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: you know, we haven't seen the detail We're not saying
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: we needed to be consulted per se in terms of
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: you know what that unit might look like. But what
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: our concern is is our police police resourcing and if
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: we don't have enough, that's where investments should be put
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: first and foremost, well do.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: We have enough police?
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Because you know it feels at the moment certainly, you
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: know a lot of the commentary around the place from
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: from general punters, like normal people, is that you know
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: there isn't enough police patrolling the city and patrolling other
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: areas where we are saying anti social behavior.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, they're working their backside off at the moment
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: to make sure they are filling holes in rosters like
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: you would not believe. I mean, we've just done a
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: round of meetings through the Greater Darwen area as well
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: as down in our regional remote areas. I can tell you,
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: for example, in the Darwen area, one of the main
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: complaints at those meetings was the insufficient staffing to fill
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: a roster. Now, when you've got to rely on over
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: time as the norm to actually get a roster field,
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: we're in a world a hurd and we know there
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: are vacancies here in Darwen that aren't being filled. And
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: obviously the community are recognizing that if they're feeling that
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: way and feeling like there's not enough police on the ground.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: But certainly the feedback we've received over our recent round
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: of meetings, there are completely insufficient numbers at the moment
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: for our members to do what they're being asked to do.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Well, why is that? Why are the numbers insufficient?
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: All of you know, it's accepted there are system sickly.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: You know, people do take sickly from time to time,
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: and there's no doubt you know, the last couple of
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: years has taken its toll. But as I said, there's
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: also an enormous amount of vacancies in the Darwen area
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: at the moment. We know there's been policy to send
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: our new recruits down in our regional remote areas. I
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: think we're seeing an impact of that strategy, and we're
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: also seeing an impact of the fairly significant attrition rate
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: that we've got in our police force at the moment,
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: where we're losing nearly ten percent of our workforce in
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: a year. So all of those I guess difficult strategies
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: and difficulties around retaining police is now forming a bit
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: of a whole in our rosters that's almost too difficult
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: to overcome with our enormous amounts of overtime.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Goodness, mate, I mean that does not sound good. Have we,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: like a wee in a situation here where sometimes we
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: don't have enough staff to actually to actually cover different shifts.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: Look, obviously in the Greater day On area, you know,
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: we have had times where many many occasions or we
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: understand where members are turning up and they're the only
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: van there for the night, or at times we haven't
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: had a roster van because of illness or what have you.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: Now in the Greater day On area, we have gernal
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: duties working out of Palmerston, Darwin and Casarina and they
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: do their very best to cover all of those sectors
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: when there are shortages. But we're also talking about the Watchhouse.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: We're also talking about in our communication section. All of
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: these critical frontline areas have been significantly under strength for
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: some time, to the point we've recently written to the
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: Assistant Commissioner responsible to highlight these concerns because it's certainly
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: something that came very strue, very strongly through those recent
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: meetings Katie.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: And what was the response from the Assistant Commissioner.
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: I was still waiting at the stage, So you know,
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: we've asked for an urgent reply to this concern we've
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: raised because at the end of the day, the community
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: need to know that the police have the numbers to
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: do what they need to do, that they're safe in
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: their job, and they've got the response capability to make
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: sure when the community ring, they're there. And you know,
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: as I said, they've been doing enormous amounts of work.
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: All of our frontline people, our shift sergeants, O, you know,
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: the people that look after these stations, they're doing everything
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: they can to make sure these people are available. But
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, if there's only so
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: many boots to go around, they can't do the impossible.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Paul, last time you and I spoke, we spoke about well,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: you revealed that there was going to be a survey
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: upcoming at some point, including questions about confidence within the
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: police commissioner.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: How are things tracking along with that.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: I know at the time there had been as I understood,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: around nine of the twelve branches who'd come back said
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: that they wanted that to happen.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: How are the other three going at this point?
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I think the majority of met now and
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: I think you know those numbers as they are. I
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: think nine out of the twelve have discussed that particular issue.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: But we've already made that decision that'll go ahead. As
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: I said previously with you, that will proceed and likely
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: within the next couple of weeks. So we're just obviously
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: working through that at the moment, working through the development
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: of that survey. We're keen to put that out as
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: soon as possible. We know our members want to have
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: a say and rightly say, well, I mean they've been
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: doing it tough for a long time out there and
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: it's about time they have the opportunity to have their say,
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: and we will do with that information. Of course, we'll
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: go to government and the Commissioner with those outcomes, and
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: we're came to do that very soon.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Paul. What is going to happen if you know, if
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: you have a situation where there is a large number
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: of police, of the force and of your members that
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: say that they don't have confidence in the commissioner.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: Well that'll be the information we provide to government and
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: the Commissioner. And I guess the key points behind that
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: is the reasons why, and once we understand that, that'll
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: be used to develop a strategy around addressing those issues. Ultimately,
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: it's the government, and as I've said to all our members,
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: and I've said to it to you previously, you know,
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: we don't employ mister Chalker. That's certainly the government's you know, mantra.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: But what we're here to do is represent our members.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: They've asked us to us to undertake this survey, and
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: it's exactly what we're going to do. We're not here
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: to stifle that debate, and that information will be used
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: appropriately with government and the Commissioner.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: And we know that the Police Executive Center statement out
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: last week as well, and quite you know, it's quite
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: unprecedented to see something like that happen. What's been the
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: reaction from the rank and file.
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: To you, Yeah, look, obviously, you know they put out
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: the statement. That statement was quite clear that they also
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: want to understand some of the reasons behind you know,
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: the feeling and the sentiment out there. I think, you know,
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's entirely their prerogative. I know some of
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: the feedback from that release was fairly negative in terms
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: of members wanting to understand why that statement was put
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: out by the Commissioner. But you know, I equally want
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: to understand exactly why that sentiment's out there, because it's
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: been very strong for some time. And unless you get
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: to dressed and unless we peel back the layers of
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: concern and really understand it, it's not going to get fixed.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: And without it getting fixed, this sentiment will remain, and
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: we just need to actually address it and move on.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Paul.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: I also know that in one of the recent publications
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: issued obviously by the Police Association, as you guys do
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: your normal sort of newsletter that comes out, there had
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: been some coverage on Zach Rolf. Now has there been
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: any update when it comes to the status of his job.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: No, not at this stage. We're still working with Constable Rolf,
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: you know, through the difficult process we're having. I mean,
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: you know, quite frankly, it's really frustrating, no doubt for
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: him his family that he's still not back at work.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, this trial concluded in March and we're still
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: working through these issues here in Nellly in July, and
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: we're doing everything we can to try and getting back
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: to work, and we're still providing that support to him
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: and his family and it's a very frustrating situation and
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: we're meeting regularly with the department about it.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: So where is the roadblock here?
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: Look, there's internal processes to go through. You know, there
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: was obviously the Internet itself was quite significant, and we've
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: got a coronal inquest coming up commencing in September, and
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: you know, there's an entire review being undertaken, no doubt
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: by the police in relation to that response and the
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: lead up to that coronal inquest. And obviously part of
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: the part of that internal process is speaking with Comfortable
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: Rolf and others involved. So we're still working through that,
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: but we're very keen to have him back at work.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: I'm sure the police force would want him back at work.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: You know, he's been found not guilty of that particular
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: murder charge and he's championed the bit to get back
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: and help the community of the Northern Territory.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Well, before I let you go, I mean, how big
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: a part do you think that this whole situation with
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Zach Rolf is going to play when that survey goes out.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: Oh look, ultimately that'll be that'll be the members to see.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's been regular feedback. I mean, there's no
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: secret you know, it upset a lot of people, and
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: it's and you know, those on those that were involved
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: in the incident, obviously Zach himself, the investigators who were
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: part of that process. I mean that was a challenging,
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: very challenging time for them to be investigating one of
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: their own and the entire police force. Of course we're
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: on edge for a couple of years over this, and
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: obviously we're still got the Crayling quest to come. So
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, undoubtedly, I don't think it's any secret it's
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: going to play a huge part, but you know, there
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: are obviously other reasons as well while people are feeling
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: that they are well.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Police Association President Paul McHugh, we always appreciate your time.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Just one last question before I let you go.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: I know, another part of this announcement that was made
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: by the Northern Territory government earlier this week, in terms
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: of you know, trying to grapple with the issues that
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: we're seeing with crime and anti social behavior, there is
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: this co location of services is what they've discussed as well,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: and having territory families and others operating more closely with
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police. From the feedback that you receive,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: is that going to have much of an impact.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: Well, I think one of the challenges has been that,
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: I guess sharing of information between agencies, and I think,
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: you know, if that's a process they feel can break
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: that barrier down, I think it's a good thing. But
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: obviously we're going to have to wait to get the
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: feedback from the members on that as to whether it's working.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: But I think any positive steps to share information and
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: work together should be encouraged.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Well. Police Association President Paul Mchue always appreciate your time.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for speaking with me this morning.
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: Thanks Gatie, thank you.