Latest / None of Your Business Podcast / Selling with HATITUDE | The Real Way to Close Deals

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Selling with HATITUDE | The Real Way to Close Deals · None of Your Business Podcast

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  I make relationships and build connections with no motive or no
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  agenda. It's not what you can do for me.
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  It's truly because I care and I want to help you.
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  I don't look at myself as I'm in sales.
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  I look at myself as I'm in relationships.
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  None of your business, Oshi. None of your business, Michael.
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  It's the None of Your Business podcast hosted by Michael
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  Anoshi. Welcome back everybody to
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  another amazing episode of the None of Your Business podcast.
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  I'm your host, Michael Greenfield.
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  Joined with me is our Co host, Oshi Schwartz.
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  Today we have an amazing guest, Elliot Cohen.
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  Elliot, say hello. Hi everybody.
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  Elliot, I'm a radio voice. But yeah, oh, you're putting on
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  your radio. I'm not.
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  Sure. I don't know.
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  Oh, I guess we'll find that. Afterwards, yeah, I, I guess,
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  you know, let's all put on our radio voices and start the
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  podcast again. Welcome back everybody to the
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  None of Your Business podcast. I'm your host, Michael
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  Greenfield, and we are sponsored by the way, by Prime Source.
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  This week is dedicated to Prime Source, which is our company.
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  And the reason why we dedicated this this week's episode to
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  Prime Source is because we always meet at Prime Source
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  events. And you know, we could talk
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  about that a little bit, what the hustle is like and what it's
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  like to just hustle and do sales.
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  And that's the world that I think the three of us share in
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  common is that we're constantly on the move and hustling.
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  And, and yeah, I'm excited to have you here.
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  I I appreciate the color and the shape of the hat that you picked
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  for this show specifically. I think it matches well with our
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  logo so. I kind of saw what the
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  background was prior with other podcasts, so I knew what to do.
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  You thought about it, didn't you?
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  I love that for us, by the way, your socks too, and we
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  appreciate the socks that you bought for us.
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  By the way, for those of you watching on video, this has
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  striped and polka dots, right? So a.
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  Little more of a story than just a pair of socks, but that's all
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  right. Tell the story.
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  Well, we did a recording at ECAP East in February and I was
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  wearing those socks and Michael specifically liked them with the
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  you can't make up your mind of polka dots or stripes.
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  But went back to Nordstrom and saw a pair and figured that
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  would be a good idea to if you like them that much.
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  Or maybe you're just being nice on the podcast.
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  Who knows, But we'll see if you wear them or not.
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  I really appreciate it. It's like, well, the ADD socks,
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  you know, you can't decide. You guys know who Lenny Tanzer
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  is? Yeah, sure, Lenny sounds
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  familiar the name, but. Lenny Tanzer is like he has a
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  mobile imaging company and the master at its trade of sales and
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  networking. I know what he does.
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  That's it. He does one specific thing that
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  he gives out. Yeah, and he gives out socks and
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  he saw me once at an at a restaurant and he's like, you
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  like my socks? You really?
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  I'll get you up here. And two days later I got up here
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  of $37 socks in the pants. Yeah, well, by the way, I never
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  liked those socks. Don't wear them, but it's OK.
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  These I think I might wear if you don't, cuz those went up to
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  like, I swear, like Lenny's an older guy.
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  It went up to like the knee. You know, people like those, I
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  think they call them surgical socks, actually.
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  Sorry, Lenny. I mean, there are lots of.
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  I'm giving them back, but I'm not really using them.
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  What do you say? What?
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  It's a brand Pantherola. That's a expensive socks.
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  Oh, you know about it. Sure.
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  Oh, OK, You obviously have an eye for fashion as I try.
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  Yeah, as we can tell. So yeah.
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  So like I said, it's dedicated to prime source this episode
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  because we spend a lot of time at shows and we we're always
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  doing the hustle. And I decided to do something
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  new a little bit with you. We'll try something.
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  Is that we we generally have what ChatGPT says about the
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  guest. OK, And what I'd love to ask you
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  so the audience can get to know you is what do you think Chat
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  Chi Piti would say about you? That's a good question.
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  Thank you and thank you, Stephen.
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  It was his idea. Thank you, Stephen, always.
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  What do I think Chat Chi Piti says about me?
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  I think Chat Chi Piti would say about me is that I'm a an avid
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  conference goer, that I'm a good connector of people and a.
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  A man of many hats. Man of many hats, literally and
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  figuratively. I've had a lot of different
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  responsibilities in my career, where I've started, where I
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  continued to go and where I am now.
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  So I think that's a a big varying spectrum of things.
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  But ultimately, I think what it comes down to is if what I
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  would, I guess maybe the question to just what you'd want
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  chat, chat, chat to Petit to say about you.
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  We're evolving. We can.
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  We can. I think I think that I'm a good
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  human being. I think that's someone who's
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  who's thoughtful and and respectful and kind.
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  You know, what's great about that answer is that we had
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  someone comment on one of our channels once and said, why do
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  you always getting celebrities and people that everybody knows?
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  And there were people that you wanted to just get a good guy on
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  the podcast. And I'm happy that you're
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  starting it off that way because I didn't say it.
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  You said it. I'm I'm joking.
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  But you know, something that stands out of with you, of
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  course, is always your demeanor, your dress, your look, you stand
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  out. Literally, you're tall, you wear
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  a hat. I'm just curious when it was the
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  first time you decided to wear a hat.
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  I love that question. I get either that question, I
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  get a lot and they're also, you know, throughout conferences I
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  bring multiples with like how do you travel with it definitely
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  confuses people at times or question or opens a question.
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  But about seven years ago I was in the home care space and I was
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  at a a home care home base user conference out in Dallas, TX and
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  they had a so home care home base is like the the PCC
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  version. The home care home base is the
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  like the EMR. Yeah, right. Home care.
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  No, it's a home care EMR. It's. An EMR, yeah.
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  So it's a software that home care companies use to manage and
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  track all the system, correct? Sorry for the people.
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  That's OK. Yeah.
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  Yeah, it's. Fine.
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  So it's like point click care for the nursing home space.
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  Home care home base is the one for the home care space and and
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  the last night of the conference they had a themed casino event
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  and everyone's like you have to dress up you have to do
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  something. So I went to the Galleria Mall
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  in Dallas, if everyone has been down there and they had like
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  this Paul Smith fedora that they were selling like that's casino
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  ish like. And I got one of those like
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  waiter vests and I put on the hat and everyone's like, well,
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  that looks really cool. That looks great on you.
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  And I felt good in it. And obviously if what we call it
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  follically challenged, but it was, I just like the look.
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  I like the fit of it. And then it just stayed and it's
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  been 6 1/2. Years, you know, I've seen you.
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  Dozens of times. I don't think I've ever seen you
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  without a hat. I don't know what you look like
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  underneath that covering well. Let's just say he's not going to
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  be a Head and Shoulders shampoo. That would definitely be a.
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  Sponsor. Definitely not but.
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  Let's see what's underneath. Can we at least reveal to the
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  world what you look like I've ever seen?
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  Wow. Oh, my God, That's pretty wild.
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  That's amazing. Yeah.
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  I gotta touch. It yeah, yeah.
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  So I so. You gotta touch it.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fascinated by bald?
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  Head so. You normally can't touch a guy's
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  bald head well. Yeah, you're more than welcome
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  to anytime, but it at I've always had like on the side and
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  then I was like a friend of mine's like why don't you shave
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  it? Like how fast does your hair
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  grow? What's the worst that can
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  happen? Just shave it and see what
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  happens. Because there was always like on
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  the side, but it wasn't, you know, it wasn't.
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  There's obviously nothing on top.
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  I started losing my hair when I was probably 20/19/20.
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  Yeah. So it became, it was like you're
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  always covering it up and wearing the hats anyway, so just
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  shave it. And then last year for perm, we
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  were trying to think of what was trying to think of what the kids
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  what to do and they're like, Hey, we want to do minions and
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  I'm like, actually, that's great.
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  I could be grew could shave it off, do it for perm and then
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  worst case scenario, it was just for perm and they did it and it
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  was I mean, people thought I just went all in on the costume.
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  Kids loved it, It looked great and everyone was like that looks
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  you should keep it. I think there was like one guy
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  in the community like maybe you shouldn't keep it.
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  I'm like, I don't need your opinion, but thank you.
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  So but now it's just also it's easy.
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  It's. So you never wear a keeper then?
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  You're always wearing a hat. Right.
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  That's what I'm saying. You're always wearing a hat.
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  Yeah. Wow, it's so interesting.
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  You know you don't. Leave the house without a hat.
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  Either that or a baseball cap. Sometimes people see me in a
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  baseball cap and they're like, what is going on like this?
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  I have to tell you, you look good without a hat.
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  Thank you. I like that look.
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  Why? Do you think I kept it off?
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  Yeah, I do look. Different.
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  I didn't rush. You do look.
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  Different not meeting you for the first time.
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  Well, that's nice to meet you. Yeah, I think people are also
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  when they see the video, like, wow, this is weird, but it's I'm
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  I'm totally comfortable with. It well for all those people
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  that are starting to lose their hair.
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  I hear this a lot from a lot of my friends.
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  Just go completely both. Yeah.
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  And it really looks good on you. So that's that's awesome.
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  Wow. So it's it's also I've accepted
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  the hair loss over years anyway, so it's like whatever.
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  Have you tried anything to gain back your hair?
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  When I was 19 or 20, we tried when Propecia came out, but it
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  was really, really expensive because it just came out and
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  there was like whatever you have to like continue taking in.
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  If you stop, it starts to fall out.
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  And I after a few months I stopped and then.
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  I mean, I was always worried that if I take Propecia,
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  something else is going to go wrong.
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  But now. But now I hear it's so cheap you
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  can get $3. For and it works.
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  I don't know. Definitely not.
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  Imagine you started taking propecia, something you hear it
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  doesn't. Grow back, Yeah, Yeah, it's not
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  going to grow back. Keep it retains what you're
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  losing. I had AI had someone who I know
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  that was so desperate that they tried the most random things to
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  put on their heads at night. You think something like that
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  for sure would work like toothpaste or some random?
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  Thing or cow urine? Yeah, that I wouldn't do, but.
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  But not making it up I. Know it works.
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  And like this, this things that people use, but look, all you
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  look great. Thank you.
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  I like it. But I, I appreciate knowing a
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  little bit more about it because people do go through challenges
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  of losing their hair, by the way.
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  That's a very big thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  I mean, yeah, some people have a hard time with it.
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  I'm just accepted it and confident and who cares?
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  Amazing. Well, Turkey's a big deal right
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  now. People want a Turkey to install
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  follicles. I don't think it's for you
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  anymore. I.
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  Don't think so either, but that's fine, I'm OK.
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  Wow. OK, cool.
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  I'm glad I got that out of the way.
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  It's good to know. Yeah.
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  So you first started wearing a hat, but you were doing the
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  shows for a while before that. Yeah, I was in so my background,
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  what I so now I I run growth for this for comprehensive
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  consultants, a physiatry group. Physiatry which does pain
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  management for people. Yeah, we staff nursing homes
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  with pain management doctors across the country.
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  But my background has been home health and Hospice for my
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  career. But actually we take a further
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  step back. I actually don't know if I ever
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  share this with you, but I was in the culinary world before I
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  got into healthcare. So I got into it when I was in
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  yeshiva in Bridgeport, CT. It was like post high school
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  there were they always needed a guy to kind of help out with the
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  kitchen to prepare dinner. And I just always had a knack
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  for it. I always loved helping my my
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  mother out in the kitchen and kind of watching what they were
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  doing. And then got really into it and
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  they're like, hey, you seem like you have a natural talent.
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  What would you like to help out? So I started doing it and then
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  making the Shabbos meals for 60 guys and I really enjoyed it.
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  I'm was really, you know, I have proximed a real natural talent
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  for it. And then when I went to Shiva in
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  Israel, wherever center to Shiva, I helped out there and
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  started getting hired for catering jobs.
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  And it was a it was a, it was a great use of skills and just my,
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  my imagination, just kind of working through a lot of things
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  and figuring things out. It was a it was a really good
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  experience I really enjoyed. It how did it last for you being
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  like a that was? Yeah.
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  So I still do it a lot now in regard I'm saying.
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  You relied on it for your Yeah. Well, so after at that point I
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  was doing in Israel and then came back got married very
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  early. I was 2122 and worked for
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  Michael Scheck was one of the esteemed kosher caterers in the
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  in the Jewish world worked in a commissary there for four or
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  five months there's. A suggestion right there,
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  Michael Schick. I'd love to have him on here,
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  hear him talk about the the world of catering.
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  He's he's you see him a lot, a lot of conferences just on last
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  week. So yeah, yeah, yeah, it's.
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  Doesn't he do the E cap shows he.
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  Does. Yeah, he does, yeah.
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  There's a few top notch people out there that yeah, there is.
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  They're making an impact. Yeah.
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  And then at that point I was doing it for a while.
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  I went to go to culinary school and then my my wife at the time
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  wanted me to kind of get a real job and I went into healthcare
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  and started working at Centers healthcare.
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  So it was an interesting development and balance, but
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  then I started healthcare working for Centers again.
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  Centers is one of those great organizations like Prime Source
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  where they hire really anybody that seems like they can, you
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  know, give them a shot, give them an opportunity and they.
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  When you say anybody, you mean any hard?
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  Work. Any hard work?
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  Yeah. Anybody talented?
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  Yeah. And wants to succeed in life.
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  Yeah. And wants to go beyond the
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  online BA they got correct. Six months.
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  Yeah, and really try something real.
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  Yeah. And sorry.
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  Yeah, I know that's that's valid.
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  Not anybody needed you, but it gives people an opportunity.
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  What's the saying? You can either give someone a
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  fish or teach them how to fish. So, and I, and I actually just,
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  I think I just shared this with you.
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  I think what I've seen you guys do is that you do both, you give
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  them a fish and you teach them how to fish.
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  So that's impressive. But it, it, it, you know, have a
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  lot of appreciation 'cause they again, gave me a, gave me an
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  opportunity and I grew in that pretty well.
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  It was pretty good in my job pretty quickly.
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  Pretty early on I was hired. My first bosses was Max Mason,
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  Ari Stallas and great. People.
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  Great folks and then I, yeah, group of within four months I
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  was requested by the the administrators where it's the
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  buildings I was working with to be their assistant and they're
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  like, you know centers is like, OK, who is this?
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  What's going on? What what, what, who, what, what
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  can we do here? At that point they had three
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  home care agencies in the five boroughs, 2 skilled, 1 non
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  skilled and they had 15 nursing homes in the five boroughs.
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  And they were obtaining only about 24% of the business from
• 13:59
  their own facilities. And they were like hey, like we
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  want you to do this. And it was essentially, we call
• 14:03
  it Centreslink. It was essentially working with
• 14:07
  all the facilities and making sure that that there was a path
• 14:10
  for them to refer with internally for the benefit of
• 14:13
  continuum of care or for the benefit of keeping everything
• 14:15
  within a system. And it came into like, hey, like
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  figure it out within about six months.
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  We were at 24% when I started. We were about 82% after six
• 14:25
  months. So I did that and then I learned
• 14:28
  a very valuable lesson. One of my early lessons I
• 14:31
  learned in the business world is don't complain unless you have a
• 14:34
  solution. And I was telling Izzy and I was
• 14:37
  telling Elliot, 'cause I was like, hey, like the intake team
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  at the skilled agency, it can't function without a better intake
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  support. So I was complaining for about 3
• 14:46
  months and then he's like, hey, guess what?
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  I have, I have a solution. I'm like, great, what is it?
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  He's like, congratulations, you know, you're now the director of
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  intake. Fix it and I'm like, great.
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  Not what I had in mind, but all right, sure.
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  In 2016. We're only up to 20160.
• 15:01
  Yeah. In 2016, I got an opportunity to
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  work for Avery Eisenhower. They had a skilled agency in
• 15:07
  Jersey City and they were looking for someone to kind of
• 15:10
  step into a finance operations role.
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  I came in and they said we have a need in billing and finance
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  that we need. I'm like I don't know anything
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  about home care billing and let alone I failed my math B region
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  twice. So like I am not your finance
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  guy so. You don't believe in the fake it
• 15:25
  till you make it. Well in terms of getting a joke,
• 15:28
  you didn't say that. No, no, it could be you're.
• 15:29
  Right, I didn't say that. I just said that when, when they
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  have that in mind. So when I started, he gives me
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  my business card and it says CFO and I'm like, OK, this is a
• 15:36
  joke. Like I am not your CFO And he's
• 15:39
  like, we need help with Billy. I'm like, I don't know what he's
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  like. You'll figure it out.
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  And I, and I did, I, I do, I said before with even the
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  cooking, I have a very good natural talent of picking things
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  up pretty quickly. And I try and use those talents
• 15:53
  when I can accordingly. But it was a, it was a really
• 15:56
  good opportunity for me to, to learn more about internal and
• 16:01
  how businesses run and operate and keep themselves moving.
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  It was a good, good option. Then COVID hit and we thrived
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  during COVID. We thrived during COVID because
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  of the relationships that I've built and that the team has
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  built over the years. There was obviously in, in
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  Hudson County, New Jersey, in that area also was like,
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  obviously COVID was terrible and people didn't have any
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  resources. No one knew where to turn, no
• 16:28
  one knew where to go. Obviously we had the the PPE
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  Gray market or, you know, people trying to figure out what to do.
• 16:35
  And I connected a lot of doctors that had no resources with the
• 16:40
  right people to kind of get the stuff they needed, was very
• 16:43
  helpful and supportive in that. But one of the big things that
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  really helped us during COVID was I mentioned again, I still
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  cook and still, you know, spend a lot of time and explore with
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  that. And part of my job in marketing
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  and development was taking doctors out for dinner twice a
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  week. And when COVID hit, obviously
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  everything was shut down. People were working 20 hour
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  days. There was no sense of of like
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  normality. So I suggested to the CEO at
• 17:10
  that point I'm like, hey, like I have a crazy idea, so why don't
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  I invite doctors to my house for dinner?
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  I'll have a four course meal, a pair of wines and cocktails.
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  He's like interesting. You could try it, but I don't
• 17:21
  know how that will develop. Well, what?
• 17:22
  It depends what restaurants you were taking them till now they
• 17:24
  were taking them to Mendelssohn's or were you taking
• 17:27
  them to a reserve cut? Yeah.
• 17:28
  Well, I mean, also a lot of them in New Jersey, so ETC.
• 17:30
  And T so you were taking them to good restaurants.
• 17:32
  They went to good restaurants. So their their standards were
• 17:34
  high already. I will say I'm I'm I am very
• 17:36
  good at at in the kitchen as well.
• 17:38
  So you're you're convincing them to bring them to your.
• 17:40
  House yeah during that process smart and and you know.
• 17:44
  What's the dish that you're famous for?
• 17:46
  So now for the last couple of years, I've been doing fresh
• 17:49
  homemade pasta. I've done it.
• 17:51
  These dinners of, you know, Gordon Ramsay's beef Wellington.
• 17:55
  Yeah, that's. So that was, yeah, that was
• 17:57
  intense. The the.
• 17:59
  The big undertake, the risk. Part was.
• 18:02
  You don't know until you cut it open what it's like.
• 18:03
  And I cut it open at the table and it was pristine and perfect.
• 18:07
  What is that, Medium or medium? No.
• 18:09
  Yeah. Medium rare.
• 18:10
  Medium, Medium, medium. Medium.
• 18:12
  Medium rare. Yeah.
• 18:13
  Make up your. Mind medium rare in the middle
• 18:14
  it's either one and then it gets both medium and towards towards
• 18:17
  the. End.
• 18:18
  If you let it sit, you're saying, OK, all right, I'm a
• 18:20
  medium rare guy. So yeah, I was what are?
• 18:22
  You was she? I don't remember.
• 18:23
  Always medium rare. Also, always you should have.
• 18:26
  The black and blue type of guy, but that's OK.
• 18:30
  That was a bent. That was a compliment, by the
• 18:31
  way. That was OK.
• 18:32
  Yeah. So.
• 18:33
  So continue on this journey of yours, at least from your
• 18:35
  financial aspect of things. Yes, this is your professional
• 18:38
  journey. Yeah.
• 18:38
  So I still want to know about your personal journey, Who are
• 18:41
  you, where you coming from, where you grow up.
• 18:43
  But go ahead. We'll get to that, yeah.
• 18:46
  So, yeah, I, so I mentioned Stephen Schwartz was a CEO
• 18:50
  revival and got a kind of got to a point at Promise Care and I
• 18:53
  was just like, which was the name of the home health agency.
• 18:54
  OK, what am I doing next? And Steven talked about is like,
• 18:58
  you know, everybody in the space, you know, every nursing
• 19:00
  home operator, Why don't we just do home care across the country
• 19:03
  and open branches and create a, you know, a, a real organization
• 19:09
  that we can continue to develop off of your relationships in the
• 19:12
  nursing home owners and different states, different
• 19:15
  markets. Yeah, maybe this is a good idea.
• 19:17
  Let me think about it. And I, I kind of had a very
• 19:22
  brief conversation with my wife at the time about it.
• 19:26
  And so yeah, maybe to consider it, we'll see.
• 19:30
  And then I just kind of pulled the trigger and and jumped.
• 19:32
  You did what a lot of people do. I'm sorry to interrupt you.
• 19:34
  I just wanna just bring us to that point.
• 19:37
  You did what a lot of people do during their career, which is
• 19:39
  they make decisions to make a shift and to do something with a
• 19:42
  potential opportunity. And I'm curious what the upsides
• 19:45
  and downsides are when you create those type of decisions.
• 19:48
  So I think at that point also part of making decision was I
• 19:52
  was confident in my or my relationships across the across
• 19:55
  the board. Is it all in the hat?
• 19:58
  How did you make all these relationships?
• 19:59
  You know what I, I, I think what it comes down to is I make
• 20:03
  relationships and build connections with no motive or no
• 20:06
  agenda. It's not what you can do for me
• 20:10
  or why I want to, you know why I want to help support you or
• 20:14
  introduce you to somebody. It's because I don't have a
• 20:17
  motive or an agenda. It's truly.
• 20:19
  Because I care and I want to help you if I can.
• 20:22
  Why not? It doesn't cost me anything.
• 20:24
  Or it costs you your time when you're not making money.
• 20:26
  But not necessarily because what?
• 20:28
  Unless you're very wealthy. Because you know, well, that's a
• 20:30
  good point. Because what's happened, what
• 20:32
  I've seen for myself personally is when you're genuine about
• 20:36
  making those relations in those connections, yes, you're using
• 20:38
  your time. It's always helped me in support
• 20:41
  of me in the future. I've in, in, in, in going
• 20:44
  forward consistently. And I think in sales, I don't
• 20:48
  like to look at myself as I'm a sales.
• 20:50
  In sales, I like to look at myself as I'm in relationships.
• 20:53
  It's more about developing to get to know you as a person.
• 20:56
  And then as that continues to develop, usually business
• 21:00
  transpires from it. And I always put relationships
• 21:04
  first as a lot of conferences that I go to, I don't
• 21:07
  particularly have any particular like game plan or agenda or
• 21:10
  targets. I think that's the secret to a
• 21:13
  good conference as we were just focusing on building the
• 21:16
  relationship. And things happen.
• 21:18
  I mean some of the some of the best deals and companies that I
• 21:23
  work with and I work with now all came from years of building
• 21:27
  a relationship with. I never thought I would ever do
• 21:29
  business with them. Was it all through conferences?
• 21:32
  Usually a lot of them you meet people and then you continue to
• 21:34
  develop and it's also on a lot of follow.
• 21:36
  Up, right. I mean, you'd say conferences is
• 21:37
  a big part of growth? Conferences is a major part.
• 21:40
  That's why I tell people all the time like I'm not sure what my
• 21:42
  ROI is on the conference. It's expensive.
• 21:45
  Like you're definitely not going to get anything if you're not
• 21:46
  there, right? So it's, it really is about
• 21:49
  showing up and being present and being consistent because it, a
• 21:53
  lot of it is also out of sight, out of mind, alright.
• 21:55
  Let's Fast forward to now. So how did you get to where you
• 21:57
  are? Fine.
• 21:57
  So I, I, we started our own home health business.
• 22:01
  We were in, we started in Florida, in Orlando and
• 22:04
  Jacksonville, and then we also moved out to Dallas, TX.
• 22:07
  Opening up. Home health businesses.
• 22:09
  Locations, yeah, in different, in different markets, correct.
• 22:12
  And you're responsible for building those relationships in
• 22:14
  every. Correct.
• 22:15
  So that was, it was, it was, it was a, a challenge because
• 22:18
  again, when you're in a market that you're working for, for 10
• 22:22
  years, it's not that difficult, at least from my perspective,
• 22:24
  to, for me to develop those relationships because you're
• 22:26
  there, people know who you are, you're deals with these events.
• 22:29
  But it's really difficult when you're in different locations,
• 22:31
  different States, and you have to be in different places every
• 22:33
  other week to meet new people and spend the time and invest
• 22:38
  that time and energy and. How do you invest that time?
• 22:40
  I'm just curious, like I, I mean, I have my own answers, but
• 22:43
  this is you on the podcast today.
• 22:44
  So I'm curious like you have some, you know, you're going to
• 22:47
  Florida, you're trying to build a, a territory there.
• 22:49
  You have 3 hours to build a relationship with somebody.
• 22:51
  How are you building a relationship?
• 22:52
  I think, I think a lot of it is just deciding on what's what,
• 22:57
  what the attention and what the focus is.
• 22:59
  It can be extremely exhausting 'cause you're going back and
• 23:02
  forth and back-to-back to back meetings and then, you know,
• 23:05
  having to, to, to also balance a, a personal life too.
• 23:10
  I think for me, it also was that I was, I'm very good at, I have
• 23:15
  just have a good energy. I think people pick up on it,
• 23:18
  but also it's the genuineness that comes with it.
• 23:21
  It's not it's, it's I've, I've heard that one of my, one of my
• 23:26
  favorite comments that I've got from people is that we don't
• 23:28
  even know that you're selling. And I think that that's it.
• 23:32
  It speaks on. I'm not trying to necessarily
• 23:35
  show you that I'm selling because again, I can.
• 23:37
  What's that sell you this pen? But like it, it's I'm not
• 23:40
  selling you the pen. I'm selling you me and I'm
• 23:43
  selling me and I'm selling you our connection.
• 23:47
  And then if you want to buy a pen, great.
• 23:48
  If you don't, you'll buy it eventually, but you're not going
• 23:50
  to buy it right now. And that's fine.
• 23:52
  It's with no motive or agenda and people don't feel this
• 23:57
  stickiness, if that makes sense. Yeah, it does.
• 23:59
  And I want to get more into it, but keep going with your journey
• 24:01
  so you we finish up where you're up.
• 24:03
  Yeah. So I was doing that for about 18
• 24:05
  months, kind of got to a point where we had to make a decision
• 24:09
  if we were going to keep moving with the home care business.
• 24:11
  We were had a lot of struggles with with the agencies.
• 24:15
  It was some of them were just like the perfect storm that was
• 24:19
  really difficult through difficult times.
• 24:22
  It was obviously also a strain on on on my family and my kids.
• 24:26
  And there was again a lot of roadblocks that I had personally
• 24:32
  as well that kind of that led to some of the struggles that we
• 24:37
  have within the business. And you know, sometimes there is
• 24:42
  decisions that have to be made that aren't necessarily easiest,
• 24:44
  but it's a, it's a really strong learning process and figuring
• 24:49
  those things out. So we can get into that a little
• 24:52
  more as I you know, there is. I happen to like that topic
• 24:55
  simply because there's so many people that I know that they
• 24:58
  double and triple down on things that are not working and they
• 25:01
  keep going and going and going and we always ask the question,
• 25:04
  when do you stop? When do you?
• 25:06
  When do you? Pull the plug.
• 25:07
  When do you cut your losses? At what point do you actually
• 25:10
  learn that you're losing more than you're gaining here at this
• 25:13
  point? Like people who start their own
• 25:15
  businesses is a good example is with an investor.
• 25:17
  It's different. But when you're starting your
• 25:18
  own business, so you're starting your own business and you're
• 25:21
  struggling and you're challenged and you're working hard, you're
• 25:24
  getting accounts and you're doing your thing and you're
• 25:26
  making money. But you as an owner operator
• 25:28
  aren't taking out a salary. And if you went to work for
• 25:31
  somebody, you might make more than what you're trying to do
• 25:34
  over the course of a few years. So that's why it's just the
• 25:36
  interesting hot topic for me that I talk about all the time.
• 25:39
  But. I think a lot of that also is
• 25:41
  ego where people are like, no, I could do it myself even.
• 25:45
  Though is there such a thing as a good ego I.
• 25:47
  Wouldn't necessarily call it ego, I'd call it confidence.
• 25:49
  OK, does it come from ego though?
• 25:51
  Well, I guess so I'm just using a nicer.
• 25:53
  Word. Yeah, OK, alright.
• 25:55
  I think there is a good ego. I think if you're if 'cause,
• 25:58
  when, what do you? Oh shit, when you hear the word
• 26:00
  ego, what do you think of? What's the first thing that
• 26:01
  comes to? Mind, I mean, it has a negative
• 26:02
  connotation to it. That's how people talk about it
• 26:05
  amongst themselves. When you want to put somebody
• 26:07
  down so he thinks too highly of himself, use the word ego.
• 26:10
  You know what? I'm going to start saying
• 26:12
  confidence to you from now on, 'cause I've said to you before,
• 26:14
  you have a good ego. Yeah, that's a confident thing.
• 26:17
  I think also. What a separate word.
• 26:18
  It's confidence. Very different.
• 26:20
  There's two different things. Yeah, there's also, like I said,
• 26:21
  there's a fine line, I say this all the time, a fine line
• 26:23
  between confidence and cocky, right?
• 26:26
  Sure. And I guess that's depends on
• 26:28
  where you are on that line. You mean Lakewood or Muncie?
• 26:32
  I didn't say that. No, I'm just saying it depends
• 26:33
  where you are based on the cockiness.
• 26:36
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's why ego has a negative
• 26:38
  connotation. But when you say you know no.
• 26:40
  I I don't know if ego in itself, like the core, the essence of
• 26:44
  being, having an ego is a bad thing.
• 26:46
  It just depends it also. Motivates.
• 26:48
  People. Yeah, yeah, You know, you got to
• 26:50
  balance it out. Anything else, if you have a
• 26:52
  passion like that, can lead you to do extreme things that are
• 26:55
  harmful, and it could also lead you to do great things, you
• 26:59
  know, and wonderful things. So it's all about balancing it
• 27:01
  out, never getting too high, never getting too low.
• 27:04
  And ego is just, you know, a play in a word of confidence is
• 27:08
  really what it is. If it gets too high, too much
• 27:09
  confidence. That's cocky.
• 27:11
  Unwarranted confidence, you know?
• 27:12
  Then he has an ego. It's usually how you'll
• 27:15
  associate the word if you. Don't mind if you can pause for
• 27:17
  a second because you're on a journey and this is your I I
• 27:20
  can't keep up third or fourth attempt at growing, you know,
• 27:25
  after you knew the culinary wasn't for you and each time,
• 27:30
  what are you taking out of it? What are you learning from it?
• 27:32
  I mean, again, so many listeners are listening to this, have gone
• 27:36
  through multiple jobs, multiple companies, tried multiple things
• 27:39
  or are the journey of trying. And you know when you I'll be
• 27:42
  honest with you, when you started to tell your whole
• 27:44
  journey and your story, I'm like, OK, like, like, what are
• 27:47
  we up to? Like, you know, what are you
• 27:48
  doing now? Let's go back to, but I'm
• 27:50
  learning from the story and listening to you that you know
• 27:53
  you, you're, you know, you're a person, that you really are a
• 27:56
  nice guy, obviously. Thank you.
• 27:59
  But you know, I appreciate that, but even more so learning from
• 28:03
  your experiences is really important for me.
• 28:07
  And you know, I want to learn more and more about it.
• 28:09
  As you know, you're sitting there with your third or fourth
• 28:12
  attempt at A, at a, you know, a business venture, let's call it,
• 28:16
  and you still have the same things that you left with, which
• 28:19
  is your talents, your raw talents of relationship building
• 28:22
  and networking. And So what did you hold on to
• 28:24
  each time? What was that thing that kept
• 28:26
  you going? What would you tell younger
• 28:27
  people when they're growing and trying to get business?
• 28:30
  What are the important things that you held onto?
• 28:31
  Like so that's a, that's a really good point.
• 28:34
  And I think it's it's a good segue into the next as we
• 28:37
  continue to talk about the right at.
• 28:41
  This point, you're at this point, you have kids.
• 28:43
  Yeah, you're married at this point, correct?
• 28:45
  And you're traveling a lot, which is another point to make.
• 28:49
  Yeah, it definitely put a strain on a lot of the personal.
• 28:52
  Meaning. Traveling a lot.
• 28:53
  Yeah, yeah, on the marriage. But for me, I, I tell people all
• 28:58
  the time, when you're in any role in anything, just absorb
• 29:01
  what you can like a sponge. What's saying you can be a Jack
• 29:05
  of all trades with a master of none?
• 29:07
  I don't know if I necessarily agree with that.
• 29:09
  I think that you can not master a lot of trades, but you can
• 29:13
  definitely you can you. You can definitely get a lot of
• 29:16
  knowledge and experience by just learning and being curious.
• 29:22
  I think curiosity is something that is a lot of people are
• 29:25
  scared of, are scared to know, curious in regards to business,
• 29:30
  curious in regards to personal life, curious in regards to
• 29:32
  friendships and just understanding who people are and
• 29:34
  just being curious to learn because we kind of get stagnant
• 29:40
  if we're just doing the same thing.
• 29:41
  So example, you have people that are in the same job and they're
• 29:43
  just doing the same thing next to next to another company.
• 29:46
  What do you, what do you actually, what are you learning
• 29:48
  from it? I've been lucky that in all
• 29:51
  these moves that I've made, we're all in different roles.
• 29:54
  They're all in There are similar concepts, but essentially
• 29:57
  different roles where I was understanding different levels
• 30:00
  of business that I didn't have before and I was curious to
• 30:03
  learn, wait, how does that work? Why are you doing it that way?
• 30:06
  Why don't you try it this way? What's the background?
• 30:08
  What's the What's the understanding?
• 30:09
  Of it, you always came out ahead with knowledge, correct?
• 30:12
  But you held on to something. What was that something?
• 30:14
  I held on to, I think the core value and the core value truly
• 30:18
  is being a good human being. I think that that that is people
• 30:24
  feel it, people see it, people believe in it.
• 30:26
  I'm sorry to to go off on it. You, you're not making money
• 30:29
  being a good human being. What was the talent that you had
• 30:31
  and you hold on to? OK, good point.
• 30:33
  You kept building upon with every single transition that you
• 30:35
  had that people can think about and say, I want to focus.
• 30:38
  On maybe also that it's the it's it's, but I think part of that
• 30:42
  is the good human being is the connections in the
• 30:44
  relationships. OK.
• 30:45
  So relationships, right? It's all relationships.
• 30:47
  So you can, if you would ask any, anyone that knows me that
• 30:52
  knows that, that that's seen me in conferences or in meetings, a
• 30:58
  lot of them would say, I guess what chat CPT would say about
• 31:00
  Mesa and just a good connector. And I, I, my relationships that
• 31:05
  I have and that I connect people with are strong because I can
• 31:09
  meet someone and pull you over to make an instruction, But I
• 31:11
  don't know them. It's not really going to has
• 31:13
  much of an impact as if I as if I do know them well for me, I've
• 31:18
  been through a lot of personal changes over the last year or so
• 31:21
  specifically, and it was really encouraging to see people kind
• 31:27
  of step up and be there when you needed them to.
• 31:31
  We can, you know, we can talk about that a little bit more,
• 31:34
  but there's been a lot of of, you know, essentially growing up
• 31:39
  within, like I said, growing up as a good from boy from
• 31:43
  Flatbush, like you're kind of insulated to a certain aspect.
• 31:47
  And also to when sometimes people enter into the working
• 31:49
  world, they understand that there is a bigger world out
• 31:53
  there and there are things to be curious about and to understand
• 31:57
  what you know, what your core values are.
• 32:00
  And I think that that's a a really big piece to truly
• 32:06
  figuring out where you want to be in life.
• 32:08
  I appreciate that. And I think that what you're
• 32:10
  saying here, if I may, is that someone who wants to be that
• 32:13
  relationship builder, that connector, that marketing,
• 32:15
  business development, sales, all is all under one roof, you know,
• 32:19
  being the genuine person that you are and connecting and
• 32:22
  networking. And that's what we're learning
• 32:23
  from you. And I'm I'm enjoying it a lot.
• 32:25
  We have someone in our company that just recently said this
• 32:27
  Elliott shout out to you where he said every person that works
• 32:32
  for us in our company has other talents that we need to exploit
• 32:35
  and figure out how to use to benefit our company.
• 32:38
  And it was such a really like it was, it was really eye opening
• 32:40
  and it was just nice to hear that someone else on our team is
• 32:43
  even thinking about that. And compliments to you, Elliot,
• 32:46
  for bringing up that topic and to you.
• 32:50
  All right, exactly. I was going to say to you also,
• 32:52
  Elliot, for, for talking about it and finding the talents.
• 32:55
  And you had that knowledge. So every time you came out of
• 32:57
  something, you had bigger and better relationships with people
• 33:01
  that you've had over the course of those years.
• 33:04
  And you also had the education from everything you've learned
• 33:06
  and absorbed because that's what you're saying.
• 33:08
  It helps you. So So what was next in your
• 33:10
  journey? So next I was at with.
• 33:12
  And this is how long ago? This was 2022 is when I started
• 33:16
  for care. OK, so just a short few years
• 33:18
  ago, you already transitioned to the next thing.
• 33:20
  Correct. I was doing that for two years
• 33:23
  and it was also was a fantastic experience.
• 33:26
  The Hospice space and the Hospice services like again,
• 33:30
  Oshi, when you think of the word Hospice, what's the first thing
• 33:32
  that comes to? Mind somebody who's at the tail
• 33:35
  end of their life and they're just trying to, you know, be as
• 33:38
  comfortable as possible for the whatever is left of their life.
• 33:42
  So that's a misconception. I think that when then the
• 33:47
  Hospice world, again, the most 99% of people think death and it
• 33:51
  doesn't have to be that way 'cause I think people look at it
• 33:53
  as they're giving up and they're just letting it, you know, take
• 33:56
  its course. And sometimes that's what that's
• 33:58
  how it's beneficial for patients is when they're you're just
• 34:01
  trying treatments and sometimes the body just, you know, wants
• 34:05
  to be left alone and it will do its thing.
• 34:07
  You have patients that are on Hospice for six months, who
• 34:09
  patients on Hospice for two years.
• 34:11
  And then sometimes, you know, you have those like last minute
• 34:13
  things because like, I'll put them on Hospice and and you're
• 34:16
  already at the end of the road. But for me, that was a, a good
• 34:20
  experience in, in that world, but also working with people as
• 34:25
  well, because you understand that people are in the most
• 34:28
  vulnerable times of their lives, the most, you know, their mom,
• 34:31
  dad, family member or someone is on their deathbed and they just
• 34:36
  don't know how to handle it. And you really have to.
• 34:38
  I, I just want to travel even for, because we operate at
• 34:40
  Hospice in multiple States and, and I'm like, what are you in
• 34:43
  the airport? I, I talk to, to everybody.
• 34:46
  I also, I fly almost every week or every other week.
• 34:49
  So I have a, I don't know if I told you I have a, a game with
• 34:53
  myself of how quickly I can get to the, how late I can get to
• 34:57
  the airport and still make my flight.
• 34:59
  So I live in, say, Clifton. It's about 22 minutes from
• 35:03
  Newark. If the flight's at 7:00 AM, door
• 35:06
  closes at 6:45, I'll leave my house at around. 6 love it.
• 35:09
  So like TSA pre checked? Yeah, Clear.
• 35:12
  Not clear is worthless in Newark.
• 35:13
  Oh, in Newark. OK, but boarding pass in hand.
• 35:15
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 35:16
  No checking bags. No, you have the system.
• 35:18
  You know what you're doing. Check a bag at the point.
• 35:20
  But you've gotten screwed in the past, I'm saying.
• 35:21
  You've I've taken probably 150 plus flights, probably more in
• 35:26
  the last 3-4 years. I've missed 2.
• 35:28
  OK. Because of security?
• 35:30
  Is that what it is being well? 1 One was, it was 911, not 2021,
• 35:36
  but not 2001, but 911. Three or two years ago I called
• 35:41
  an Uber and I don't know why I thought like, it's a 6:00 AM
• 35:43
  flight. I called her for five and I did
• 35:45
  not realize 911 is going to be a little bit more of a stickier
• 35:48
  situation at the airport. And the Uber driver was like
• 35:51
  said he had to stop for the bathroom.
• 35:52
  Like no no, no. Like I need to get to the
• 35:54
  airport. Showed up and missed it by 10
• 35:56
  minutes. I'm sorry, did you let your Uber
• 35:58
  driver stop? He didn't give me a choice.
• 36:00
  OK, it happened to me once before but.
• 36:01
  In Newark, he just pulled over in a random shady Motel 6 and
• 36:05
  got out of the car. I'm like, I'll be back in 5
• 36:06
  minutes. I'm like, yeah, it was not
• 36:09
  great. I literally had that and I
• 36:10
  missed my flight exactly the same thing.
• 36:12
  That's crazy. Yeah.
• 36:13
  Not great. And then the other time was so
• 36:17
  the airlines a lot of times change the terminal on you like.
• 36:20
  Yeah. So that's it.
• 36:21
  Last second thing I see your your batting average is pretty
• 36:24
  good if we get early. Yeah, Yeah.
• 36:25
  That's pretty. Cool.
• 36:27
  But I, I learned my way around the airport.
• 36:29
  But where are we going with this?
• 36:33
  At that point? I was also, you know, starting
• 36:36
  to really go through with struggling with the marriage and
• 36:41
  starting to go through the divorce process.
• 36:44
  And it was this, do I stay at care 1, You know, 'cause I, I
• 36:51
  all my now ex-wife wanted me to kind of stick around and, and do
• 36:53
  things locally. And this was a good opportunity
• 36:56
  that I thought would be a good option for me.
• 36:58
  So it kind of got to the head of, you know, how I want, where
• 37:03
  I want to see my career grow, where I want to see myself as a
• 37:05
  person grow and have that kind of, what do they call it work
• 37:12
  life balance and understand what to do.
• 37:15
  And obviously I decided to, to join with, with CRC and kind of
• 37:21
  take that role. And it's very different because
• 37:25
  my everything else, I was working for these, you know,
• 37:28
  Orthodox from guys that were understood the community,
• 37:32
  understood the culture and understood all those different
• 37:33
  factors. And then working for a group
• 37:36
  that is not Jewish run. That's not what's called very
• 37:39
  corporate, very finance driven. It was a different world for me,
• 37:44
  but I really took all those experiences you mentioned, as I
• 37:49
  said before, that kind of that Segway build up of understanding
• 37:53
  that there is a bigger world and understanding that there is a
• 37:56
  capacity that I have to use all those strengths and those
• 37:58
  experiences and knowledges that I learned and really put it into
• 38:01
  what I was doing now, what I'm doing now.
• 38:03
  And it also kind of has given me the ability to learn who I am as
• 38:11
  a human and who I am as a, a father, who I am as a, a, a Jew,
• 38:17
  who I am as a human being. And it, it's, it's really
• 38:23
  adjusted and given me kind of this path to where on this like
• 38:29
  learning or healing path that I'm working on.
• 38:31
  That's all been in the past year you're saying?
• 38:33
  All been in the past year, Yeah, OK.
• 38:35
  So it's fairly recent, but it's been, you know, kind of.
• 38:39
  This is something new, and this new position requires you to
• 38:41
  travel. Still, it does, yeah.
• 38:43
  So I'm travelling quite frequently now, more frequently
• 38:46
  now. Obviously I have a different
• 38:49
  home life. So there's a, you know, there's
• 38:52
  a little bit of a flexibility. To, if you don't mind, take me
• 38:55
  back a little bit now that we got to where you are currently
• 38:57
  in terms of what's your official role?
• 38:59
  Senior vice president of. Growth.
• 39:00
  Got it. Other than salary, what's
• 39:02
  important to you when you join a company?
• 39:04
  Well, it depends on what role you're in.
• 39:06
  So if you're in a sales role or as I call relationships role,
• 39:10
  it's about bonuses because you know, a lot of times in when
• 39:13
  you're hiring someone in sales and I know you guys hire people
• 39:15
  that don't have a lot of experience and you're not
• 39:18
  necessarily going to give them a, a substantial salary without
• 39:21
  seeing what they're capable of, right?
• 39:23
  So you give them a decent base, something to live off of and and
• 39:27
  give them a good bone instruction.
• 39:28
  Yeah, we also give them a coach of someone who has a lot of
• 39:31
  experience. That's amazing.
• 39:32
  So yeah, which is, thank God, been a good formula for us.
• 39:34
  So for everyone, coach, we have, let's say, three people
• 39:36
  underneath that. Person How do you find these
• 39:38
  coaches? The coaches are people that have
• 39:39
  experienced specifically in our field, specifically in senior
• 39:42
  care, procurement management and so on.
• 39:44
  Mean that work for you or? That used to work for a company
• 39:46
  similar to ours or in our space that know the industry.
• 39:49
  No trade shows, conferences, sales, you know, calls and so
• 39:52
  on. See, you give them a fish and
• 39:53
  you teach. Them.
• 39:54
  Yeah, you know, you mentioned twice or more even about your
• 39:57
  upbringing, and I'm not sure what to say.
• 40:01
  Sorry that you got divorced, but look, I am at the same time, you
• 40:04
  know. It definitely is hard, yeah.
• 40:06
  It's not. Not going to say it is.
• 40:08
  And it's difficult to have 4 kids.
• 40:10
  OK, my oldest actually is bar mitzvah in in 2.
• 40:13
  Weeks. Oh mazel tov.
• 40:14
  Thank you. And then my youngest is a is a
• 40:17
  is 5. So it's it's definitely
• 40:18
  challenging. Before I jump into that, just
• 40:20
  give me a little bit of that background.
• 40:21
  Yeshivish Brooklyn Lapidus. I I could say the same thing.
• 40:24
  Grew up in Brooklyn. What part of Brooklyn?
• 40:27
  Midwood, 27th and Avenue L Like smack the middle.
• 40:30
  Yeah, OK. I have a a sister year older
• 40:33
  than me and three younger brothers.
• 40:34
  Was there a shul that you dive in there?
• 40:35
  Yeah. Yeah, good dive Ave., AL.
• 40:36
  Good dive Ave. al Rabbi Finder was the rabbi back then.
• 40:39
  Rabbi Isby, who was nifter, and then Rabbi Breuer.
• 40:41
  I'm totally awful. OK, yeah, totally awful and
• 40:43
  never a minor is but yeah, hard to Flatbush regular mainstream
• 40:47
  yeshiva's to Tertamima and Shiva for OK Friday school very you
• 40:53
  know. Your age bracket in your world,
• 40:56
  growing up in Brooklyn toward Tamima and so on.
• 40:58
  Do you have any friends in your world that have experienced like
• 41:02
  challenges, let's call it in the school system, in your age, in
• 41:06
  your? I mean, a good question.
• 41:08
  I would, I think, I don't think anyone can answer that question
• 41:10
  and say no. I think you've, we've all had
• 41:14
  people that have had challenging experiences.
• 41:16
  I growing up, especially in elementary and high school, I
• 41:19
  was just blinders. I would just kind of follow
• 41:22
  along what I was told to do and how I was, you know, how I was
• 41:28
  raised and right, my parents kind of were, are very, very
• 41:34
  involved. But I was also the, I mean, I
• 41:37
  wasn't the middle child, but I was the middle child.
• 41:40
  You know, it was just, you know, we always sit around the table
• 41:42
  with my siblings. Like they always ask who who is
• 41:45
  the easiest and everyone agrees it was me because I was just
• 41:47
  kind of like. Got it.
• 41:49
  So you went to Bridgeport? Yeah, we knew that from earlier.
• 41:52
  Robbie Berger. Was a burger, yeah.
• 41:53
  He's my rabbi, by the way. I love him so I love him too.
• 41:56
  Shout out to Raphson Khobuna McCain, whose mother is 100
• 42:00
  years old. Holocaust survivor.
• 42:03
  Fantastic woman. So I knew that then you also
• 42:07
  went to yeshiva, you mentioned in Israel Center Center.
• 42:11
  What else stood out in your upbringing that you can say that
• 42:13
  shape 2 you are today? I think, I think a lot of
• 42:16
  actually what shape 2 I am today was not even in my childhood.
• 42:20
  I think a lot of it was even after I got married, you know,
• 42:23
  dating. Shut off.
• 42:25
  Yeah, also shut off day was the the the 1st girl actually that
• 42:29
  was recommended to me. This was your first sort of
• 42:32
  first. Girl blind date didn't know any
• 42:35
  different. I also like I mentioned before,
• 42:37
  so it's kind of like blinders on do what I do.
• 42:40
  What I do? I've never, I had obviously,
• 42:43
  even growing up friends that had the talk to girls.
• 42:45
  I was just like. So you never had a girlfriend,
• 42:47
  OK. No, nothing.
• 42:49
  Didn't even really have any interaction, right?
• 42:51
  So, so you got married when you were young, 20?
• 42:54
  21 I was engaged, married at 20. When you were engaged, married,
• 42:58
  lived in Brooklyn. Brooklyn for the first three
• 43:00
  months and then moved to Israel for a year.
• 43:01
  OK. Oh, you lived in Israel?
• 43:03
  What part of Israel? Ours they.
• 43:05
  Ours. They.
• 43:05
  Yeah. Very cool, yeah.
• 43:07
  Living normal, everything like you know.
• 43:10
  Yeah. You had a kid right away, I
• 43:12
  guess. After the first year, yeah.
• 43:14
  After the first year, I. Was married 14 and then my
• 43:16
  oldest was is now almost 13 so yeah a year.
• 43:21
  But yeah, we I think that's what shaped a lot of who I am today,
• 43:25
  just obviously understanding that what life is the struggles
• 43:31
  around it, not knowing of the support and that some of the
• 43:37
  kind of resources that because again, especially marrying the
• 43:42
  first girl I ever dated, dated for six weeks engaged, you know,
• 43:47
  marry three months after that, you're marrying a total
• 43:49
  stranger, right. And you know, you try and figure
• 43:55
  out where life is in. I'm still not even what the the
• 43:57
  the the frontal lobe cortex is still not fully developed.
• 44:01
  You know, what is it? 25 is when it when you like
• 44:03
  you're a child. I was a child and didn't
• 44:07
  understand any any factors and I felt like there was a lot of now
• 44:11
  I think there's a lot more resources for young couples that
• 44:13
  are maybe getting married than there was when I was.
• 44:17
  I think also, when you think of actually, what do you when you
• 44:19
  hear the word divorce? What do you think?
• 44:20
  I'm fucking an issue with these? But like when you hear divorce
• 44:22
  in the from world, what what comes to mind?
• 44:25
  I think shame, probably a word that a lot of people would throw
• 44:28
  around. It's unfortunate because a lot
• 44:30
  of times it's actually a good thing.
• 44:32
  You know, not everything works out and what do you do?
• 44:36
  You try something else, right? And we do that in our lives all
• 44:39
  the time. But this is religious aspect to
• 44:43
  it. There's a practical aspect to
• 44:46
  it. And the most important one,
• 44:47
  kids, I mean, you can't just try something else.
• 44:49
  Yeah. So that.
• 44:50
  Quickly though, so that's my point yeah, my point is that
• 44:52
  it's actually not good for the kids, right, Yeah, right.
• 44:55
  I'm saying is that's why you should consider trying something
• 44:57
  else. But Despite that they don't
• 44:59
  because of these other. Things like shame and like,
• 45:02
  yeah, so. That's, you know, you, you also.
• 45:03
  But you said trying something else.
• 45:04
  Then what did you mean? You meant trying like another
• 45:06
  approach? You mean towards the
• 45:08
  relationship? What do you mean?
• 45:09
  No, what I'm saying, I mean in, in general, in life, when
• 45:11
  something's not working, you try something else.
• 45:13
  Oh, right. In marriage is difficult in
• 45:14
  marriage, you should technically try something else, right?
• 45:17
  You can't, but you can't because a lot of things are turning you
• 45:19
  down. So it's, but it's not just the
• 45:21
  kids aspect. The kids.
• 45:22
  A lot of times that's actually the reason you shouldn't be
• 45:24
  together is because harming your kids.
• 45:27
  So you know, that's that's what I meant.
• 45:29
  Yeah, no, it's and that's, it's kind of what what most people
• 45:34
  think of when they when they hear, especially in the firm
• 45:35
  world. So it becomes this like, OK,
• 45:39
  what do I do? Like I'm, you know, in a rough
• 45:41
  place, you have 4 kids, you're not sure like what, what's
• 45:45
  developing or how to kind of deal with it.
• 45:47
  And again, even like I mentioned, even early on when we
• 45:50
  just got married, I had no resources, didn't understand
• 45:53
  what was, you know, what was what I was supposed to be like,
• 46:00
  what marriage was supposed to be like.
• 46:02
  And you know, at that point too, there is, I had to say
• 46:06
  resources, there is there weren't a lot of rubaim or
• 46:10
  people that just were there to support what that should look
• 46:14
  like. And there's a lot of fear around
• 46:15
  it. Now I know that there's a lot
• 46:18
  of, you see a lot of like podcasts and, and, and speeches
• 46:24
  and stuff given about, you know, divorce and, you know,
• 46:27
  structures and everything else. And there's a lot more support
• 46:31
  around it for me personally. I mean, everyone handles their
• 46:36
  processes, their situations the way that they do.
• 46:39
  For me, you know, obviously it was a really difficult process.
• 46:42
  Obviously I'm in a better place now that going through it.
• 46:48
  But it is it is crippling. It cripples a lot of people and
• 46:51
  they don't know where to turn and what to do.
• 46:53
  And even from within my, you know, friends and community,
• 46:57
  they're like, they don't know what to do.
• 46:59
  They don't know what to say. Am I allowed to say something
• 47:01
  banality something? Should I reach out?
• 47:02
  Should I not reach out? Do I pick a side?
• 47:04
  Do I not pick a side? And honestly, you don't have to
• 47:08
  pick sides. I don't think.
• 47:10
  I think that that takes it to a whole different level.
• 47:12
  I think that everyone needs support in their own way.
• 47:15
  Some people, again, I ask other guys that are divorced might go.
• 47:17
  I don't want to talk about it. Like I don't want people to tell
• 47:19
  me, talk to me about it. Whereas, you know, sometimes you
• 47:22
  feel like you feel very much isolated and alone, and it's
• 47:26
  hard and it's difficult. And people question, you know,
• 47:30
  people like, you know, I'm not happy in my marriage.
• 47:33
  Why couldn't you figure it out? And I'm like, OK, you should
• 47:37
  deal with your own problems. Someone actually said that to.
• 47:39
  You it, it can unfortunately tell you that there is more
• 47:43
  fingers that I have in my hand that people have told me that
• 47:46
  I'm like, what's a big deal? Like I'm not happy.
• 47:48
  Why can't you figure it out? Sounds like they're jealous of
• 47:51
  you. Yeah, I think that's the word
• 47:52
  that comes to mind. Yeah.
• 47:53
  But also, again, to each their own.
• 47:55
  I mean, I think that everyone has their own situations.
• 47:57
  Everyone has their own marriages and their own struggles.
• 48:00
  And there are people that have beautiful marriages and it it's
• 48:04
  it's definitely, like I said, a learning process.
• 48:07
  It's difficult for the kids, but ultimately for me, my family has
• 48:13
  been very supportive. I have some friends that have
• 48:16
  been really supportive and some friends that stepped up that I
• 48:18
  didn't even think would. And it's it's, it's nice to you.
• 48:22
  It's hard because sometimes you have people that just don't know
• 48:24
  what to do and they kind of take a step back.
• 48:27
  And you can't force someone to do something that you can't push
• 48:31
  someone in the direction. But you know, you have to be
• 48:34
  consistent. And there's a lot more still
• 48:36
  that I'm learning on myself and how to be the best father that I
• 48:39
  can be for my kids now and still be a good Co parent and, and
• 48:44
  work together with, with, with their mother and be able to work
• 48:47
  things through as as easily and as smoothly as possible.
• 48:51
  I'm putting my best foot forward.
• 48:52
  But now, you know, I'll say this, Michael, we spoke what,
• 48:57
  almost 8 months ago to conference and, and I think I
• 49:00
  met your wife then at that point as well.
• 49:03
  And you know, there's sometimes in, in every process that
• 49:07
  everyone's going through, whether it be a divorce or a
• 49:09
  difficult time at a job and, and, or just, you know, issues
• 49:13
  with a friend. Sometimes there's a conversation
• 49:15
  you have with people that they're not expecting to make
• 49:19
  such an impact, but they do make an impact.
• 49:21
  And I think that conversation, I can I'll say this publicly, I
• 49:24
  told you it then, but made a real impact because sometimes,
• 49:29
  like I said, you feel very isolated and alone, but knowing
• 49:33
  sometimes that there are people that genuinely care about you,
• 49:37
  that genuinely want to be there supportive and feel like they
• 49:39
  are what's called. And they've been so many people,
• 49:41
  especially, I guess I didn't within the community and some of
• 49:44
  the Rabam and my family has just been the most supportive that
• 49:48
  they can be. And it's you meet really good
• 49:50
  people and kind of get along in in certain aspects.
• 49:53
  And I have friends that like came out of that I've known for
• 49:57
  a little bit, but I've just been the most I couldn't get through
• 50:01
  it without, you know, certain friends that were just there and
• 50:05
  through every step of the way. And even though everyone,
• 50:07
  everyone's going through their own situations at every point of
• 50:09
  the day, you don't know what's going on in other people's in
• 50:12
  other people's lives. But that's also too what
• 50:15
  motivates me to just be that good human being just.
• 50:19
  By the way, I'm curious, did you lose any good?
• 50:21
  Yeah, old friends. Yeah, because they don't.
• 50:23
  Again, they don't. That's a good question.
• 50:25
  Did you lose any? What?
• 50:26
  Good couple friends, You know, a couple friends?
• 50:28
  Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
• 50:29
  People have to pick sides. Yeah.
• 50:30
  They, they, they. It happens.
• 50:32
  But they meaning if there's they do, but they also don't you,
• 50:37
  you, you can support, meaning you don't want to talk.
• 50:40
  Oh, oh, they said this. Oh, he said this.
• 50:42
  She said that. That's toxic.
• 50:45
  That is I've no, I've I'm learning again through this.
• 50:47
  I mentioned for healing process of I don't have time for sorry.
• 50:52
  Am I allowed to? Station it.
• 50:53
  See which one? I don't have time for it, right?
• 50:55
  I, I have a lot of responsibilities.
• 50:57
  I have a lot of things going on in my life, just like everybody
• 50:59
  does. I just don't have time to waste
• 51:01
  so and nobody does. No one should.
• 51:04
  So it's, it's like any of this toxic behavior or someone's
• 51:08
  trying to tell me what's going on or whatever it is.
• 51:10
  I'm like, I just don't care. I really don't like it.
• 51:13
  It doesn't unless it affects my kids, that's all I care about.
• 51:16
  If it doesn't, I, I don't care. I have nothing to say.
• 51:19
  I have no comment. I don't want to even know.
• 51:22
  If you want to talk about me, that's your problem.
• 51:24
  I don't care. I know what I'm doing.
• 51:26
  I know the type of person that I am.
• 51:28
  I know who I'm representing and I know the path that I'm on and
• 51:30
  I'm, and I'm proud of that for now.
• 51:32
  And it's, it's, you know, one of the things that I actually said
• 51:35
  to my therapist once and he's like, I'm going to use it.
• 51:37
  He's like, you know, working on yourself is really hard because
• 51:42
  it was easy. Everybody would do it right.
• 51:45
  You really have to be honest with yourself and understanding
• 51:47
  what your mindset is, what you want to do, where you want to
• 51:49
  be, how you want to do it. But people have a hard time like
• 51:53
  Stephen, you're you know, a couple friends.
• 51:55
  It's like the the guys can't hang out with you because
• 51:58
  they're like, you know, whatever they don't, they're not going to
• 52:00
  hang out every whatever often. And, and you know, like when
• 52:05
  they make events or perm parties or Thursday night, what's it
• 52:09
  called? Like, do they invite you?
• 52:10
  Do they not invite you? Like they don't know if it's
• 52:12
  awkward or if it's awkward, like, so I try and create these
• 52:16
  environments where I don't have to put people in an
• 52:18
  uncomfortable situation. And if they're interested in
• 52:23
  being supportive, if they're interested in reaching out, they
• 52:25
  will. But, you know, I think
• 52:29
  regardless of any situation, whether you're, you know, and
• 52:32
  even if you're, you're happily married, it's important to have
• 52:35
  those friends that truly show that they care about you and
• 52:38
  truly, you know, are empathetic towards everything that you're
• 52:42
  going through. And I think that's important to
• 52:44
  be reciprocated. I'll tell you relationships in
• 52:46
  general, you know, partners, friends, business partners and
• 52:53
  children and raising children are the two hottest topics of
• 52:56
  mine that I talk about. Probably I would say 50% of my
• 52:59
  time recreationally when I'm speaking to friends, I talk
• 53:02
  about this topic. So I'm very, very interested.
• 53:04
  But before I ask you a question, I just want to see if she has
• 53:07
  any questions for you so far on this topic.
• 53:09
  No, it's been very interesting and he recovered a lot,
• 53:11
  recovered his professional life, his journey.
• 53:14
  I think what I took away is that everything's a stepping stone to
• 53:18
  the next thing. And you took each thing
• 53:20
  individually very seriously. You learned the most you could
• 53:24
  from that moment from that company, from the people that
• 53:28
  you were working with. And you carry that with you to
• 53:30
  the next thing. And it's a long journey.
• 53:32
  It's it's an adventure. And some people get there pretty
• 53:36
  quickly. Some people takes a little bit
• 53:38
  longer, but you just kept forging on and you're still in a
• 53:43
  lot of ways finding yourself, which is fascinating.
• 53:46
  And and then your personal life, you throw that in there as well,
• 53:50
  lot of growth and it really defines you.
• 53:53
  And there's just, you know, so many different variables to you.
• 53:57
  It's really amazing that you bring it all together and it's
• 54:01
  inspiring. I think it's very inspiring for
• 54:03
  other people to see that, you know, this is the common
• 54:06
  struggle. It's what everybody goes
• 54:07
  through. And you're smiling, you know,
• 54:10
  looking as dapper as ever, I may may mention, but it's, it's
• 54:14
  wonderful. It really is.
• 54:16
  I'll add also, I've been lucky that a lot of the leadership
• 54:21
  that I've had in all these experiences have been, have been
• 54:25
  supportive and you learn a lot from each other, the same thing
• 54:28
  taking out something from them along the way.
• 54:30
  And I've worked with some of the Titans of the industry, I think
• 54:34
  is a good word to use with some of the bigger, the biggest, the
• 54:37
  biggest people. And it's, it's been, it's been
• 54:41
  really, you know, it's been really great.
• 54:45
  Pushed you the most from all these people that you were
• 54:48
  discussing because you mentioned some real heavy hitters, people
• 54:50
  who, you know, when, when I talk to my friends about operating
• 54:54
  nursing homes and that space versus another business, I
• 54:57
  always remind people operating nursing homes, it's one of the
• 55:00
  most difficult things in the world if you take it seriously
• 55:02
  and do it well. And you mentioned a lot of names
• 55:05
  of people that really work 20 hours a day for over a decade to
• 55:09
  build up what they have. So I'm curious, who pushed you
• 55:11
  the most? What'd they do?
• 55:12
  I do want to get back to the whole relationship.
• 55:14
  Yeah, I know. But we will.
• 55:14
  We'll get there. And.
• 55:15
  I think again, maybe it's a toss up between Simcha Hyman and and
• 55:17
  Daniel Strauss. Simcha was very, again, also
• 55:20
  just a he was, he was good in a way where he was a no bullshit
• 55:25
  type of guy and also actually was cared about the human aspect
• 55:34
  and was very, you know, directive in certain things.
• 55:37
  And sometimes it was just like, hey, just get this done and then
• 55:39
  sometimes, OK, let's talk about it.
• 55:42
  So it also, it made me use my own like intuition on certain
• 55:46
  things without kind of having to having to drag anything down.
• 55:53
  And he was very vocal about certain things in a good way.
• 55:57
  And sometimes it was like, hey, no, just don't do that.
• 56:00
  You know you're. Doing Speaking of vocal, anybody
• 56:02
  that you deal with ever. Definitely not gonna say that.
• 56:06
  Out put you down. No, you don't have to say the
• 56:08
  names. I'm just curious.
• 56:09
  Of course, you've gone through that process of the abuse of
• 56:12
  power and. I tell people all the time in
• 56:15
  the team and my leadership and even the people that that work
• 56:18
  with me and under me. It's like, personally, I'm very
• 56:22
  good at constructive criticisms. Constructive.
• 56:24
  So if you like, I'll walk out of a meeting and I'll tell you
• 56:27
  know, my team member. Hey, what do you think I could
• 56:29
  have done differently in that meeting?
• 56:31
  No, no, you're fine. I don't think you did anything
• 56:32
  wrong. Like, well, I'll tell you what I
• 56:33
  think I could have done differently.
• 56:35
  I thought when they mentioned that point, I said, oh, yeah,
• 56:37
  that's a good point. I said, so in the future, I want
• 56:40
  to know constructively what you think I could do differently.
• 56:42
  Don't tell me that you don't like my socks, because who
• 56:45
  cares, right? That's not constructive.
• 56:47
  And if someone is is is not talking to you like that and
• 56:49
  gives you criticism and yells at you and puts you down, how do
• 56:51
  you react to? That you're not, you're not
• 56:53
  supportive a lot of. So that's a good question.
• 56:55
  For the longest time, for most of my career, I would just just
• 56:59
  swallow it and walk away and just kind of absorb it.
• 57:02
  But now through this also what kind of like having my own voice
• 57:05
  and through this healing journey, it's like, hey, like
• 57:08
  that is not the way to talk to somebody.
• 57:10
  Let's have a normal what's actually on your mind?
• 57:12
  What's something that's frustrating you or, or also what
• 57:15
  can you do differently? And in the past, it would just
• 57:17
  be appeasing the situation just to kind of move past it instead
• 57:20
  of actually dealing with the got it, you know, being more we're.
• 57:26
  We're going to have to wrap up soon, but before we do, I just,
• 57:29
  I, I want to go back to my, my point, if that's OK.
• 57:31
  Do we have a few more minutes? I'll see.
• 57:33
  Yeah. I mean, it's getting a little
• 57:34
  bit late, but definitely let's wrap up.
• 57:36
  But let's hear this last point. I feel like it's going.
• 57:38
  To be a good one, strap in. Michael always say it was the
• 57:42
  best for last. You know, I have to tell you
• 57:46
  that I have a lot of friends. I don't have any acquaintances
• 57:51
  really. If you're in my phone, you're my
• 57:52
  friend. And and it means that I shared a
• 57:54
  moment with you and you can call me and I can call you.
• 57:58
  And I have to say I have a lot of single friends.
• 58:01
  A lot. And some of them who should be
• 58:05
  single, some some of them who shouldn't.
• 58:08
  But. I'm not dating yet.
• 58:09
  That's what you're coming out with.
• 58:10
  But yeah, sorry. But you could use this as your
• 58:13
  should have resumed, you know, just watch the podcast.
• 58:15
  You know, tell me about yourself.
• 58:16
  Just watch the podcast. Don't worry.
• 58:19
  He's going to be on stories for Hope eventually.
• 58:21
  You know, that's super Brad Goat.
• 58:23
  Great story. OK, yeah, well, she's coming on
• 58:25
  our podcast soon, so that'll be fun.
• 58:29
  But you know, I, I, I wanted to mention earlier, when it comes
• 58:32
  to parenting, what I've learned a lot is every situation is
• 58:35
  different. And you mentioned here before
• 58:37
  about marriage also. Every situation is different,
• 58:40
  but there are some general rules and ideas and thoughts that we
• 58:43
  can share with one another to learn from them.
• 58:45
  Similar to what Stefan asked you a minute ago.
• 58:46
  I've experienced that in my life.
• 58:48
  You know, what, what are you going to do now?
• 58:49
  How are you going to be friends with the people?
• 58:50
  Who are you going to be friends with?
• 58:51
  And it's a great question, Stefan.
• 58:54
  You mentioned something that was really, really important to me
• 58:56
  personally. And that's what I want to talk
• 58:57
  about. And we can, you know, see where
• 58:58
  this takes us and then and go from there.
• 59:02
  You travel a lot and that put a constraint on your relationship
• 59:07
  with your family. You mentioned it earlier and I'm
• 59:09
  curious. You know you can use that
• 59:12
  anytime you want, but I'm curious.
• 59:15
  Thank you Hashem, or none of your business.
• 59:17
  You could use both. You should use thank you Hashem
• 59:19
  over and over. I'm curious like what was it la
• 59:24
  di da for the 1st 51015 years was you know, when did the the
• 59:28
  when did it come up and how did you go through that process and
• 59:31
  who advise you and how did you? The reason why I want to get
• 59:34
  into the crux of this is because I literally just had a
• 59:35
  conversation with a friend of mine this morning and he was
• 59:38
  telling me that someone he knows just got divorced.
• 59:43
  And they all think that the reason why they got divorced is
• 59:46
  because the wife or the ex-wife, all her friends were single
• 59:50
  divorcees. And instead of, you know,
• 59:53
  supporting stay married and work it out, which should be the, the
• 59:57
  potentially, you know, the idea for every marriage, in my
• 1:00:00
  opinion, you know, you do everything you can, right, Which
• 1:00:03
  I'd love to hear your perspective.
• 1:00:04
  He felt that they were all just being a bad influence on her.
• 1:00:07
  I just got divorced, get divorced, get divorced.
• 1:00:09
  And it got me thinking as you're talking, like, what was your
• 1:00:11
  process? Like?
• 1:00:12
  What could we learn from it? What was the challenges?
• 1:00:15
  You know, did it go smooth? What can other people learn from
• 1:00:18
  it? And I'll end with this.
• 1:00:19
  I have a really good friend of mine.
• 1:00:22
  Zeesh, he was on this podcast and he may have shared it then
• 1:00:25
  and I'll repeat it now. He's like, it's worth it to lose
• 1:00:28
  everything financially in order to gain a healthy relationship
• 1:00:31
  with your ex-wife so that your kids are healthy.
• 1:00:34
  And he did that and kudos to him.
• 1:00:35
  And so, you know, I just I'm curious about that process.
• 1:00:39
  Like how did it go for you? So I mean, we don't really need
• 1:00:42
  to get too much into it, but I think it was, and I kind of
• 1:00:47
  alluded to it in the beginning as well of it was.
• 1:00:50
  It was always a struggle. I think that I didn't know that
• 1:00:54
  it was a struggle in the beginning, if that makes sense.
• 1:00:56
  Sure. I think, you know, as a, you
• 1:01:00
  know, my parents in the beginning too, like when I
• 1:01:03
  asked, was she like when you think of divorce, you think of
• 1:01:04
  shame. And there was conversations
• 1:01:07
  very, very early on in our marriage where that conversation
• 1:01:10
  came up. And you know, just based on from
• 1:01:13
  both sides is like, Oh no, no, we're not like marriage is hard.
• 1:01:16
  First year marriage is really, really hard.
• 1:01:18
  Like you're, you know, it's, it's hard, but you'll figure it
• 1:01:21
  out. And, you know, a lot of times I
• 1:01:24
  mentioned resources too, is that we, that's just what we've
• 1:01:27
  always kind of thought growing up and how we're raised.
• 1:01:31
  And my parents have just been, you know, so supportive over the
• 1:01:35
  years. I think there's a a real purpose
• 1:01:40
  of also listening to your kids as they're maybe struggling
• 1:01:44
  swimming because we don't know, but also it's truly
• 1:01:48
  understanding what support that they can, what support they can
• 1:01:51
  provide. But it was always a struggle.
• 1:01:55
  Like I said, I didn't know it was a struggle for for the first
• 1:01:57
  few years as as as it was. Did you notice it in your kids?
• 1:02:01
  So not. Obvious yes, obviously there is
• 1:02:06
  there is AI know then the question always comes up or they
• 1:02:09
  say like the studies show that it's better for for kids to be
• 1:02:12
  in a two parent household than to be one parent household.
• 1:02:15
  But there's also studies that show that if they're in an
• 1:02:17
  unhealthy household or household that isn't the most supportive
• 1:02:20
  for, you know, for, for, for, for growing up, then it's better
• 1:02:26
  to have one parent household. And there's been a lot of I,
• 1:02:29
  I've, I've experienced a lot of, you know, pushback from some,
• 1:02:34
  you know, people that were like, Hey, like, no, you should stay
• 1:02:36
  married. You stay married.
• 1:02:37
  I'm like, OK, let's actually talk and, and figure it out.
• 1:02:40
  And also towards the end too, I kind of got a little bit of cold
• 1:02:43
  feet and I was like, what about my kids?
• 1:02:44
  And Rabbi centre, who was always been, he's knew me before I got
• 1:02:48
  married. He knew me when we were engaged
• 1:02:50
  and we lived there for a year and been involved throughout.
• 1:02:53
  It was like, you know, that there's, you know, there's AI
• 1:02:56
  was like, what about my kids? He's like, you know, your, your,
• 1:02:59
  your kids will be OK. You know, there's, and it's a
• 1:03:01
  lot. I'm also kind.
• 1:03:03
  So in regards to remarry. All the Single Ladies, that's
• 1:03:07
  it. That's the only ones we want
• 1:03:08
  paying attention. It's hard.
• 1:03:09
  But I, I wasn't the thought Brian people would you know, you
• 1:03:12
  can't get remarried too easily. I'm like, I'm not getting
• 1:03:14
  divorced to get remarried. That's not my, you know, as you
• 1:03:19
  mentioned, like trying something different.
• 1:03:21
  It's not I know that's what you meant, but you know, it's it's
• 1:03:27
  it's I'm not getting divorced to get remarried.
• 1:03:29
  I'm getting divorced because it was would have been the
• 1:03:32
  healthier choice, as hard as it was.
• 1:03:35
  And you know, it has its challenges.
• 1:03:39
  It's always going to have the challenges.
• 1:03:40
  But I respect, you know, I respect their mother.
• 1:03:44
  And you know, we have try and have as as most amicable as we
• 1:03:48
  can and try to walk through a process that everyone can live a
• 1:03:52
  happier and healthier life. You know, I joke around with a
• 1:03:54
  friend of mine recently and I say to him, you know, I don't
• 1:03:57
  know if you want to get divorced.
• 1:03:58
  If you get divorced, you're going to have to spend more time
• 1:03:59
  with your kids. Oh, I I want to spend more time
• 1:04:02
  with my kids. Which is a nice thing.
• 1:04:04
  Yeah, and then it's it's always great.
• 1:04:06
  It's it's hard. But again, it it's they also too
• 1:04:11
  you mentioned like I, I picked up on it, but at that point you
• 1:04:15
  didn't know it was in my head. But you're talking about kind of
• 1:04:18
  why now of all these experiences and why now I've been, you know,
• 1:04:22
  been really benefiting on these relationships is because they do
• 1:04:27
  have a little bit more time and have a more kind of headspace to
• 1:04:32
  to work on those relationships and continue to develop them and
• 1:04:35
  spend time on them. Even though if I wasn't
• 1:04:37
  necessarily because again, you have you have I had
• 1:04:40
  responsibilities. So there is a definitely has
• 1:04:45
  helped the. Lesson learned or message that
• 1:04:48
  you can tell our listeners of your experiences.
• 1:04:52
  What would that be? Be a good human being, OK?
• 1:04:55
  It's it's I think it's just it's be kind and be curious.
• 1:04:59
  Be curious. Are you going to let your son
• 1:05:04
  get married if he asked you at the age of 21?
• 1:05:07
  It's well, it depends on if your circumstance is different.
• 1:05:10
  I mean, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it just jumping into
• 1:05:13
  something. But you know, I think I think by
• 1:05:15
  the time where he's 13, so in in, in eight years, I think
• 1:05:20
  we'll be in very different spots at that point.
• 1:05:22
  Hopefully Michelle will come by then, who knows?
• 1:05:23
  You're saying also different support different systems?
• 1:05:27
  And things and each child is different, you know, like, I
• 1:05:30
  mean, I think everyone who has kids can attest that kids are
• 1:05:34
  personalities are just night and day on some of them.
• 1:05:36
  And it's interesting to see, but you know, it depends.
• 1:05:40
  I'm not. I'm not gonna sit here and say
• 1:05:42
  no right now. I don't know what.
• 1:05:44
  The yeah, no, similar to that. There's always a question I, I,
• 1:05:46
  I, I like to bring up, which is what would you tell your younger
• 1:05:49
  self, your 20 year old self? I mean, you know.
• 1:05:52
  But I would tell my younger. Self, I'm sure we can make
• 1:05:53
  another podcast, but we're we are wrapping up.
• 1:05:56
  I would tell my younger self to actually kind of listen.
• 1:05:59
  Listen to your gut. Does that make sense?
• 1:06:02
  I also, one of the things I tell people a lot now is that a lot
• 1:06:06
  of times we feel like we don't have a choice.
• 1:06:08
  We feel like we have to make a decision and we're kind of
• 1:06:10
  pressured or we like we're forced into it.
• 1:06:13
  Like I don't have a choice. You always have a choice.
• 1:06:16
  We all have choices. The problem is, is that we're
• 1:06:19
  sometimes too scared to make the choice.
• 1:06:22
  We're too scared to make that choice because of the
• 1:06:24
  consequences of that choice. We're scared to, you know, we're
• 1:06:28
  scared to actually step outside the box because what's going to
• 1:06:31
  happen if I do? And that's why I, you know, I
• 1:06:35
  said like, be curious because sometimes, you know, I'm not
• 1:06:39
  saying to just go off the rails. That's not necessarily healthy,
• 1:06:44
  but it's to kind of ask questions, understand who you
• 1:06:48
  are, ask questions of yourself, be curious of yourself, not just
• 1:06:51
  of the outside. And truly, you know, obviously
• 1:06:55
  you have a therapist. I think that that's important
• 1:06:56
  for everybody. But also, yeah, like don't,
• 1:07:03
  don't be scared of those choices if you actually think that it
• 1:07:06
  isn't necessarily is necessarily better for you and have someone
• 1:07:09
  that you trust that you can kind of talk to about certain things.
• 1:07:13
  Wow. OK, that's all in a nutshell.
• 1:07:15
  Yeah. I don't know if that's all
• 1:07:17
  right. You know, that's almost the
• 1:07:18
  wrap. But I have to ask you, if you
• 1:07:19
  had to invite someone on this chair to sit here and tell us
• 1:07:22
  about their personal professional growth, who would
• 1:07:25
  that be and why so? Beginning and hard hitting
• 1:07:31
  questions at the end. I don't think I'm not flushing
• 1:07:33
  am I know there's a COO for Ignite Medical Resorts.
• 1:07:41
  Are you familiar with them? They're a great group out of
• 1:07:45
  based out of Chicago. Tim Fields is your CEO, Barry
• 1:07:50
  Carr is one of the owners and their COO is now their Co.
• 1:07:53
  His name is Matt Fangle. Matt is, he was our chief rehab
• 1:07:57
  officer. So from the physiatry side we
• 1:08:00
  work a lot with the rehab teams. So I got to know Matt.
• 1:08:04
  I think he's a fantastic person, a fantastic human being and a
• 1:08:09
  fantastic operator. We connected on on a, a close
• 1:08:13
  personal level, but also from business level.
• 1:08:15
  And I think, you know, when you think of good operators, there
• 1:08:18
  are some really good ones and then there are some really not
• 1:08:22
  such good ones and then there are some great ones.
• 1:08:25
  I think Matt and the Ignite team is fantastic.
• 1:08:27
  What sets them apart? Their culture that they develop,
• 1:08:30
  that they build within their team, within their employees is
• 1:08:33
  fantastic. Their facilities are running
• 1:08:34
  really well. But also like he gets it.
• 1:08:38
  And I think that he's a a good person to talk about his
• 1:08:41
  experience. He's also a family, came in as
• 1:08:43
  an immigrant Indian family and just has established his roots
• 1:08:47
  and understanding of what he wants to do for his patients as
• 1:08:50
  people and he's been with the organization for the longest
• 1:08:52
  time and. Beautiful.
• 1:08:53
  Do you think he'll ever come to New York?
• 1:08:55
  Does he come here? I mean, I think I would think we
• 1:08:58
  can maybe convince him to come out for something.
• 1:08:59
  Who knows? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:01
  OK, I don't know if it's the type to call him now, but we'll.
• 1:09:04
  We could try. Why not?
• 1:09:06
  Might as well that's we could try.
• 1:09:10
  We learned from our experiences that doing things live and
• 1:09:13
  unedited and. Do they pick up?
• 1:09:15
  Yes, yes, it's happened. We've gotten several guests on
• 1:09:18
  in that scenario, so. Matt, how are you?
• 1:09:21
  I'm good. How are you good?
• 1:09:24
  You're on speaker. I'm actually on a podcast right
• 1:09:26
  now. So I just did a podcast with
• 1:09:31
  Michael Michael Greenfield and Osie Schwartz.
• 1:09:33
  The podcast is called none of your business.
• 1:09:35
  And they asked me who I think would be a good person to come
• 1:09:38
  on the podcast next that I've learned a lot from and just kind
• 1:09:42
  of seen as a, as a good person. And the, the, the theme of what
• 1:09:47
  we've been talking about a lot is about myself.
• 1:09:49
  That's it. That's, you know, being just a
• 1:09:51
  good human being in relationships and, and, and
• 1:09:55
  being curious. And I thought, you know who
• 1:09:57
  better than you? Well, this is really on the
• 1:10:00
  spot. This is interesting, but I
• 1:10:03
  thought you'd be a good person for it.
• 1:10:04
  They're based out here in New York.
• 1:10:05
  I don't know what your schedule is, but I thought it would be,
• 1:10:08
  this is a cold call to talk a little bit about your experience
• 1:10:12
  and you know your personal life and your business life and you
• 1:10:17
  know obviously about Ignite. OK, so you're so you're in.
• 1:10:21
  Yeah, I. Think so.
• 1:10:23
  That sounds great. All right, we're looking.
• 1:10:25
  If only it's 200, I'll do it. That's great.
• 1:10:27
  Thank you. That's what we're looking
• 1:10:28
  forward to. We're looking forward to meeting
• 1:10:30
  you in person. Heard a lot about you.
• 1:10:31
  Thank you so much. Thanks, Matt.
• 1:10:34
  That's how it's done, by the way.
• 1:10:35
  This is this is the pinnacle of cold, Cold I.
• 1:10:37
  Think he may have been the best salesman as far as soliciting
• 1:10:41
  some of the I agree you did the best pitch.
• 1:10:43
  You did it very respectfully. You also sprinkle in a little
• 1:10:46
  bit of like compliments, flattery, but very tastefully
• 1:10:50
  done. That was Auckland.
• 1:10:52
  That was a master class I liked. The You're very good at your
• 1:10:55
  train. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:57
  It. Was almost like he couldn't say
• 1:10:58
  no. It would have been like if you
• 1:11:01
  own or operate a nursing home or an assisted living facility and
• 1:11:04
  you want to look at your expenses and evaluate them to
• 1:11:07
  see where you can save without compromising quality.
• 1:11:10
  We don't charge a fee for our service.
• 1:11:12
  We audit your expenses and we do a great job.
• 1:11:15
  Prime Source is sponsoring this episode.
• 1:11:18
  Thank you so much for Elliot for being on the None of Your
• 1:11:20
  Business podcast. We really appreciate it.
• 1:11:22
  Thank you. We also like to ask if you have
• 1:11:24
  any questions for us before we wrap up it.
• 1:11:27
  Looks like she wants to go. That's our wrap.