Latest / College Is Fine, Everything's Fine / #56 Beyond the Books: Self-Advocacy as a Key to College Success with Dr. Onye

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#56 Beyond the Books: Self-Advocacy as a Key to College Success with Dr. Onye · College Is Fine, Everything's Fine

I'm Dr. Sarah Olivo and I'm Dr. Liz Seidler and you're listening to College is Fine. Everything's fine.Guys, you are going to have an amazing experience with our next guest now. Um, someone with expertise, um, someone with hands on knowledge, someone who can really talk the talk with the college students and high school students he's worked with. Um, but mostly we're here today because he's got a hot wife. He's got a really hot wife. And, um, she and I just had such a great conversation literally at that time. A conference and she was wearing this beautiful, bright pink blazer and she just had this energy and style. , and we would just chat on the bus to and from this conference and I adored her. And then it turns out as we were talking, she was like, Oh my gosh, you have a college podcast. You have to meet. My husband he is so great. And then she just began to sing your praises. So it's like hot wife awesome husband power duo And I reached out to you and you were a game. So without further ado I think that you have more to say than just being the other halfof this hot pair Let's introduce how would you like to introduce yourself?she's going to love that. Uh, I'm, I have to, uh, relay that introduction. That's the first characteristics. Okay. Uh, yeah. Um, thanks. Thanks to my wife. I was able to make this connection. My name is, uh, Dr. Yifani Onye Gigi, or Dr. Onye, and I have an education. I've been doing college counseling for over, over 12 years, and, and getting to work with students directly, but also getting to work with systems and school systems and school districts as a counselor, as an administrator, as a speaker.And I also am a founder of an educational consulting company called Onye Speaks. Where we make, I make curriculum that helps students prepare for college, but also helps them develop holistically, right? It's not about just understanding the content, but it's about being able to thrive and be content with yourself.Your college experience and your future career and the intangible skills that that's involved, holistic development, and also doing it in an engaging way. So students take ownership, ownership of their own journey. So that's what the kind of curriculum I make at Oye speaks. So I'm happy to talk to you all, um, on this great podcast.and that's one of the things I love most after talking to you is , and getting to actually meet you in person was this idea that it's all about the whole student and it's not really about the hustle culture that I think is a big part of what might be in the ether, um, and that really is about to your, like the whole person, not just the, how to succeed, how to take advantage, et cetera, et cetera.So anyway, welcome. Sarah, I'm glad that you cross paths, uh, with your wife and we could have this conversation. You know, part of our mission is to really. We see so many college students that lack the proper skills to make the transition successfully to college, and that's for a lot of reasons. Lack of resources, modeling, their community, , and I know this is an area that you have a lot of expertise in, so maybe we could talk a little bit about where you see the importance of skill development.Of course, on our side of things, we'repsychologists and there are certain mental health skills that are really life skills. But then there's also the self advocacy skills, which I also feel, I don't know what's happening in K through 12, but, um,you know, from not being able to go to office hours, write an email to a professor, advocate for writing support or. You know, a lot of different things. So maybe you can speak a little bit about this kind of skill development tool kit.And what do you view as essential tools,, that students need or having them might help the transition to university be better?Yeah. First, I got some tough news. Uh, it's, it's, it's not really prioritized in the, in the K through 12 space. The kind of skill development you're referring to. The student has good grades, the student has good test scores, then they're college ready. Right? So, that's kind of where I kind of built the, really the desire to have more holistic preparation because technically they're eligible based off, right, those grades and their test scores, but I've seen um, through my experience working with students in high school and through college Yeah, they can get in, but they're still struggling with the type of things you're referring to.Something like self advocacy, right, is so important, right? The ability to say, I have needs, there are things that I want, take it that second level and say, Who can help me? Where are the resources that I can get? And then the third level, I have the confidence, I believe so much in my needs that I got to go to that person.I got to go to that resource, right? When I've seen that students that have developed that, then it's not about what they're lacking as far as do they know the content? Did they lose their way with their major? They have the ability to go figure it out. And I tell my students, and I put in my curriculum that I provide to schools, is that this is as important as their proficiency in math and in science, right?And soft skills, you know, in general, are You know, all the skills that are essential for your life and your career that aren't related to a specific career or a specific topic. You talk about self advocacy, you talk about resilience, you talk about mental health skills, um, you know, you know, perseverance.These things, communication, that you will use no matter where you go. So, I know on the college side, there are a lot of college professionals who wish they had, students had this going in to K 12. Well, however Unfortunately, it's not always prioritized. We got them the grades, they got this, they'll figure it out.But that figuring out, it can be bumpy for some students.I think you're right because so much of their time is curated when they're in K 12. You know, it's, it's, they have some choice, but ultimately it's, it's pretty scheduled. It's, it's on a, there's not a lot of wiggle room in what kind of track you might take. I mean, it'slike you go to. Classes from a certain amount of time in the day and afterwards you play sports and, you know, andyou've known the teachers for a long time.Your parents might have a relationship with this. It's like you have all these things sort of put into place. Um, and so you go into this next step and suddenly you've never even. It's never been prioritized and or, you know, you might not have had to use it.Perhaps there's been a lot of accommodation, et cetera, et cetera from from teachers or schools oryour community that have. Kind of almost helped but really not helped because they've been doing theadvocacy for youUm, I also love how you took something like self advocacy and you broke it down like there's three steps you needYeah.Because it can otherwise sound like a really big word um, one of the other reasons that Liz and I really wanted you on here is because We know that psychologists can sometimes have a lot of psychology speak. We tend to see people in small groups or one on one. We get some feedback here and there. And certainly in this podcast, we've really tried to have a wide audience. That said, we really wanted to get your educator perspective. Uh, what are the things that psychologists might miss when it comes, or maybe you've seen like, yeah, they, they have this lens, but they're. It's helpful to think about this lens as well.Yeah. So, some students are going to college and they're experiencing things that they weren't prepared for in 12th grade and in high school. As I mentioned, if they got the grades, if they got the test scores, By a lot of, not all, but a lot of school systems, they're college ready. So when they meet, uh, adversity, um, sometimes it's important to instill that confidence that it's okay.That you can actually maneuver past this. Say you got your first C or you got your first D. That's okay. What are you going to do to, to manage that? How are you going to remediate that situation? Your roommate's situation isn't working out. So ideally, students will be prepared for certain obstacles. Are there students who, maybe they're first generation college students, they have no one in their family to really explain how this is going to go.So the same obstacle that might happen when we're talking about the need for self advocacy skills, mental health development skills, the same challenge that might come to them. And their confidence completely drops because they don't really have anyone to talk to. No one can really instill that to them.So sometimes telling them this is okay. Where some students were made to believe that if they are able to know math to this degree, know science to this degree, then they're going to thrive. But you're also going to thrive if you develop these sort of skills, right? And it's going to be okay. When you get to college, you should be making a resource map.Where are the resources on college, on college campus? Whether I need. financial aid assistance, whether I need career support, whether culturally I don't know where I fit in. Maybe I'm underrepresented. Where are the places? Where are the clubs? How about you do that? Once you make an outline and you understand what type of needs you're going to have, that's going to build the confidence.And these are lessons that a lot of students are just learning on the fly. They're not being prepared for these type of conversations. So I think just Instilling the confidence that it's okay. Um, this may be, you know, your first time being challenged in this regard, like you said. Um, they're getting a lot, they're getting a lot of things done for them in high school.Because administrators are afraid. We want to comply. We want them to reach this. Where they really have to grow through their own exploration. And their own challenges. Um, too.Can I ask a quick follow up question to that? Because there's one area where I know I'm not always as adept, and that's where maybe some learning differences, um, or some, you know, a lack of certain classes or mentors, where that, that is interacting with self advocacy. Do you find that there are certain And maybe you can even put it in better words for me, but ways where those learning differences might be important to think about.Um, I find that as a psychologist, I'm not always keeping my eye on what role that can play and could do a better job.So. One another skill that's important is self awareness. And that can be seen in a lot of different elements of how you learn, however you come to be, who you tend to hang with, what's your preference for, for studying. Hopefully by the high school side, you, those, Differences that you have have come up and some people have helped you to come up with strategies Or maybe you have to do it on your own and that's why self advocacy is so important because Once you leave high school There's less people who are going to come find you and say hey I like to learn this kind of way if it wasn't caught or if it wasn't itemized for you Then you have to go and talk to Sarah and Liz or go, go online and find it.It's such an important skill, but I'm sorry, I gotta go back to another point you made when you say you loved how I broke down self advocacy, um, because it should be taught like that. It should be taught like you're teaching a subject. And you should be learning, this is first you identify your need, then you find your resource.What are ways to identify your resources? Because it's a skill like in your example that will transcend. A lot of different problems you have, right? So, if you have a learning difference and you had a self advocacy, very, you will find your resources. You will be able to go to somebody, Hey, this style isn't working for me.And they'll have to listen to you, because you're going to make them listen to you, right? So, yeah.I love that.Yeah, I mean, I, I think a lot about, I, I see a lot of college students in my practice that have to take a leave of absence, right? Like they're coming to see me because they're unsuccessful academically, emotionally, socially. And we know that the rates of like reengagement after leave of absence for a lot of students, they leave higher education, right?Um, and, and then the challenges of having gaps in their learning. So what I'm always curious about, and a lot of parents come to me about this too, like, what can we do to get them in the best shape right before they go to school? So do you have, if you had to think of like your top three skills, if we're looking for college readiness, uh, what would you throw out there?So, it's a dilemma that we, I think about on the K 12 side as well. Where am I sending off, them off to? Do they have the The resilience to persist toward graduation. If I, if I had to say, uh, top three skills, a couple of them we, we've talked about, but, um, I definitely believe self advocacy is, is, is, is crucial.Um, I, I definitely believe, and I'm gonna, I definitely believe self awarenessin the sense that there's, there's multiple ways you can use self awareness. To your point. When you start to understand what career, you may not know for sure what suits you as a person. That's something that is motivating, right?To your point about staying, you know, persistent to graduation. When students are able to feel confident about their plan. In fact, I've done research on this. When students are confident, not necessarily they know exactly what they want to do, but they're confident that they will find their path, they perform better in school, and they persist.Longer. So that's something that can happen on the K through 12 side. Not just the core subjects. Really, do you have an idea and a passion about where you can go and confidence in that? So, uh, you know, self awareness and that's called and, and the other one, career self advocacy or career confidence. These are important skills and they're different than just how good you are in math, how good you are in science.Do you feel you have confidence that you can find a career you want? That you can research that career, potentially find someone to talk to about that career. There's a whole area called careers of advocacy that are skills. That when you develop these early, You're more confident and you're more likely to persist.So, I just named a few self advocacy, self awareness, uh, career self advocacy. I really believe in motivational skills. What do you do when you get down,right? How do you, what do you do to remind yourself of your successes? That's motivating because when, you know, when things go wrong, I do this, sometimes we do this, things go wrong, you get that narrative that it's not going to work out.What about all the stuff you accomplished? What about how rare it was for you to even get into this school?Right? And then resilience as well. Um, none of us have accomplished anything, uh, without some type of obstacles. What are your strategies when something doesn't go your way?When you didn't get that grade, you're, you're confused about what career, what major you want to do.That roommate situation is, is just terrible. But what are your coping strategies? What are your resilience strategies? To name a few, these skills could be taught like core subjects. And I think it will help students.Absolutely. I, as you were talking about the steps needed for something like self advocacy, it's A, B, and C. I'm thinking. You can talk about math skills, but that started when kids, I mean, these days when they're two, and it's built upon, and I do think that people feel frustrated at times with themselves, like, Oh, I don't have this skill set.I'm like, well, you have to remember that some of the things that, you know, through and through, you know, 4 times 4 equals 16. And by the way, I had to kind of preview that in my head to make sure I was right. Like,that's how long,um. You built upon that over years and years. Like, it's okay to have this feel a little, um, like you're like a baby giraffe walking on its legs for the first time.I mean, cause this, it's not, it hasn't been taught in that same way. And I thinkthat's such a great educator approach to bring to this. When you were just speaking about this, I was thinking a little bit about, If, students don't have access, which just seems like there is not a lot, um, to a curriculum or people in their community and their education system to kind of develop these skills, um, and don't have a resource like your consulting firm or, um, the one area is thinking, I think a lot of people get stuck around is thinking about how they can kind of find their path or their vision.And I, I really agree if you don't have like, a carrot at the end of the tunnel kind of to look for it's really hard every day to kind of be undecided or not really passionate about what you're studying, knowing that that's your full time job. So I'm wondering, like, how could somebody create some inflection points or kind of pursue when you talk about this career? Uh, self advocacy, because this is an area that I think in other episodes Sarah and I haven't really talked about, and I think a lot of students I work with are kind of like, I don't know, I'll be an accountant because my dad is, or I'll go into STEM because I'll make tons of money, and they're kind of,kind of shooting arrows in the dark.Yeah, I I I think one of the important things when you talk about career self advocacy It's about confidence, because you could be wrong. You could, you could, uh, think, you could have an idea of what you want to do, and that could change as you navigate high school or college, and that happens to, to a few of us.However, when you're exposed to things like what I'm about to describe, exploration, when you're allowed to get a, a glimpse of what it's like to do A, a career or a job when that's introduced to you, when someone speaks to you from that profession and particularly maybe you can connect or relate to that person in some way, you start to believe that you have options, right?So it's not necessarily one particular and then, and then once you have that motivation, then you actually have someone explain or you provide, are you on your own? Find the steps to reach them. That will take you till you persist, or you change your mind.Or you change your mind, and you find new steps, but you have confidence.That was your choice to find your new path. There are many students who like you said, I guess I'll do this, I guess I'll do that, but they're not driving themselves towards those. Uh, decisions and there's a big difference when students feel like they have the belief, the motivation, they have made reasons why they like.That position? That role? That's what And they are giving the information or they're motivated to find it themselves. How do I reach that? That gives them something to drive for. Um, I say one thing about, uh, a personal I just realized a personal story. I'm gonna pause. So I'm gonna I don't know, I'm gonna say this and I believe that it connects to Is that okay?Of I love, love personalAre you Okay. That's great. Thank you.so speaking of motivation, speaking of self advocacy, I, I, I remember actually a student when I was counseling years ago, um, immigrated to the United States in the middle of high school, and that was tough. That's tough to do. Barely knew English. Uh, was behind technically as far as being eligible for college, but this student struck me with their self advocacy and their motivation.Was always talking to me, asking me so many questions. Anytime I had an event, anytime there was a college knowledge night or anything, they were there, they were asking questions. There were issues with this person's transcript. They had to take a few English language development classes, which was required, but they also wanted to take their college readiness classes.So we had to meet parents, them advocating that they get both. And long story short, this student, not because they came knowing all the content, not because they even knew what the college requirements, their tenacity, their advocacy, um, led them to college. That's the student now has multiple degrees. Um, coincidentally enough, they're pursuing their psychology doctorate.Um, That's right.yeah. So, that actually, those kind of stories influenced me to say, how do we teach as much as, and I don't think anyone's figured it out completely, how do we prioritize it?Mm hmm.Prioritize that motivation and advocacy because it will make up for some of the content, you know, lapses or anything like that.So, yeah,And I think that you also something that you've said, but I think it's worth highlighting is in this situation. It's not the goal. I think can feel like I have to figure out my career title. And what you've done so nicely through the research and these stories is to say, actually, great news, guys.You don't have to have that figured out. That's actually not the key. And I think that could. I imagine if I was a college student at the time, and I had heard that I would have felt a lot of the pressure just fall right off.Um, so thank you for that gift to them.Like, if you just have the sense that you can figure it out and that you're going to know your next steps, if something happens,or, um,That's career self efficacy there. It's not known for sure. Yeah.well, that also thinks about then that question also, you know, Um, comes to this idea of, know, you mentioned this story and you mentioned a few other students, um, that you've worked with or that you kind of a population you care about, which is the first generation college students and that don't necessarily have what might be considered a road map. To how you get into college, what you do there, that might be a bit more feel more natural for better and for worse, because I end up saying all those roadmaps are the right ones for that particular student. Um, but I'm just curious, are there any specific challenges that you find or skills that you think help those first generation college students?Yeah, so in everything We've discussed as far as college can be challenging. It can be great. You know college is fine, right? College is very fun It could be it can be challenging and they make you know skill development is important but when you think of for students who don't have Anyone to tell them it's fine because they've never been through it, they've never gone there themselves, or maybe they're very, very underrepresented.So when they, when this student hits the challenges, it can potentially reinforce a notion that maybe this isn't meant for me. I'm not supposed to be doing this. No, this was a sign like, oh, I try. Oh, you know, and we need to get ahead of that because this is something that is, it can happen. It's perfectly normal to feel that way.But it can happen, um, if there's not a lot of examples of college success, uh, in your family or even in your community. So when that's the case, everything I've discussed is important. Having the career confidence that's going to propel you. But also learning how to combat imposter syndrome, which is feeling like you don't belong.And part of the ways to do that is always to champion your successes. Always a champion your successes. You did the work to get you to where you are, but it's a constant process, right? You are constantly reminding yourself when you hit these challenges and the more you can kind of load that information before studentsI know that I've been self aware. I know I may need somewhere where I can feel like myself. So I looked at the resources on my college campus. I know. Hey, there's this club. There's this resource center. I'm going to need that. I'm prepared to know that imposter syndrome might be a thing. I'm prepared to know who I can contact to, to remind me or the strategy I do to remind me of my wealth.And, and importantly, I have my vision. I have my career goals and I'm confident in them. And that's going to prepare, prepare me, propel me, uh, when I, when I meet challenges or obstacles.I would love there to be some way to without. Invading people's privacy, give like an imposter ism rating because the truth is, Liz, I don't know if you found this. We had, we actually had a guest who wrote a book on imposter syndrome, but she says she rebrands it to imposter ism because so many people experience a syndrome acts as if it's some difficult thing that people have that's, yeah, that's atypical.And she's like, well, if everyone has,Yeah.um, andso. You know, it's the same way that someone might say, Oh, gosh, I, um, I feel sad, but, you know, I shouldn't feel sad because I don't really have it so bad. I technically have, you know, two parents.And someone else who might have only one parent might say, Well, I can't feel too bad for myself because I've got one parent who's alive and I've got my health.And then someone who, you know, it's like, There's so many ways for us to discount struggles, and I think that for people who are first generation who really do have significant things to overcome, they might not know that there are people who seem like they have it put together who have that exact same feeling. And so that's why I almost wish there was like a rating, like a battery level, but like for imposterism and to be like, Wait, they feel like they're an imposter? What?that's so it for them.That's so amazing. Cause one of the kind of the You know, symptoms of imposterism is that you feel like it's just happening to you,like you're all alone, which in fact, you know, we're all hiding insecurities, you know, every, every day. So that's, yeah, it's happening. Um, widespread for sure.Right.Um, so much about what you, I mean, the whole, this whole entire time we're talking, I'm like, just picturing like a road map and all these like COPA head plans for all these things that I just feel there's such a need for. And the word that like kept coming back was about self efficacy. And it's something I talk so much about the students that I work with, right?The whole point of behavioral therapy, and that's the type of therapies that we do, is that you learn a skill and then you're confident. That you're going to be able to implement the skill and get a desired outcome. And I and I love that we had this whole conversation as applies holistically, right, in terms of like, not just in terms of mental health symptoms and how to regulate your mood effectively, but, oh, like, I can develop a plan in terms of how to access student services and get support or how am I going to approach the TA that's not really helping me with a class or, um, navigate getting a, I don't know, a job on campus because I, don't have financial resources, you know, to cover things.So, um, I'm so excited to hear more and maybe you could speak a little bit more about you're out there and how can people find you and your work that you're doing. And, um, I wish there was probably more of it happening. So I'd love to hear moreabout know we need to like have a way to inject your knowledge.you could intoall school districts, right, appreciate you. Um, you can find more information about what I have available for schools and what I can do at Onyespeaks. com, O N Y E speaks. com and I I'm passionate about what you, what you just illustrated, Liz, and I'm providing resources and also through professional development to, um, to staff and, um, schools.Helping those prioritize it. Because, I understand because I come from college counseling, there, the priorities can feel very immediate. Getting students to that next step, to graduate, first graduate high school, then to college. Um, and then, okay, right? However, when we light that spark in students, when we provide, and this is what I tell students, what I tell counselors, staff, and I provide in my curriculum that's directly for students, when you get them engaged, and when you support them holistically, They have the tools to just take off.And that is that take off ideally is college career and beyond. And we got to get away because students are smart from this idea. Just go to school, go to college. You're great. They know. That just going to college and can be harmful for some studentsif they don't have these coping strategies, right? But no college great great good.You're good. No, they're peeping that right So we have to talk to them like go to college make sure you have a plan Make sure you're able to support yourself your self esteem Look out for this if we have to start packaging it in that way because they know right So this is kind of the message I hope to deliver and provide resources because sometimes okay, I want to do this We're the resource that provide resources to help schools do that and hopefully through K through 12 We can talk about holistic even if we're talking about preparing them for a life beyond them being in your school Isn't that what we're supposed to do in education, right?That's the goalRight. We're setting them up for life, not for a job, right? It's four years of your life. College is four ish years of your life. And it's,it's not the, it doesn't bookend, right? It doesn't end there. It's a,it's a, it's a parenthesis part of your life. It's a chapter. It's not the whole story. So Ithink that What I love is that a lot of the things you're talking about really work across the, across your life.And, um, I am also going to take some of this.With our Children.Um, you know, I'm also a work in progress, Liz. I'm thinking myself like, Oh, maybe I should just write. I'm going toask we are we all are we all that. No, I mean, so beautifully said. And I think, , ending this conversation, I feel more hopeful about, you know, the eighth graders in my office that are dreading college already or the college students that are dreading graduating, right? Because they get to these checkpoints where and I think it really is. A lack of skill development that, and like you said so many times today, confidence that, you know, whatever speed bumps will kind of come their way, like, okay, I can navigate that, you know, thatthis isn't something that I should be dreading.Yeah. And I also find that when people have a, an accomplishment as the target. Right? To figure out what their job is going to be or to get a raise or this. They, if that's all they're looking for, they hit that target and then the target inevitably movesand then they aren't happy because then they have to meet another target.And sothese are things where it's, you're saying like, this is a target that doesn't have to move. These are things that will always be with you and move with you so that you're not feeling like you're never getting to that nextachievement step. How do we want to set up our students to be content to be happy and successful, right? hmm. Absolutely.Yeah.Well, your work seems to be a piece of that puzzle and we're going to share the resources and our show notes and thank you so much for coming on to talk to us.Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It's been a blastSay hi to your hottie.She's gonna love that I will Take you smart too. She's got some brains.It's also smartYeah. It turns out she also has abig Brain. I'll sneak that one in yeahOkay. Thank you. Thanks so much.Thank you to our guests for sharing their stories and their advice. This podcast is for college students and we want input by college students, so please reach out by text, email, or voice memo to collegesfindpodcast at gmail. com or 929 500 2231. 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