Transcript

#66 Deborah · Heavyweight

0:15
Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, you picked up the phone. Very spontaneous. Do
0:26
Speaker 1: you think I'm spontaneous? No, nothing spontaneous about you. I'm
0:30
Speaker 1: pretty spontaneous. I live in Minnesota, Minnesota.
0:34
Speaker 2: I got married. Oh, while I was at the shopping mill,
0:38
Speaker 2: I bought a parrot.
0:39
Speaker 3: Yeah.
0:40
Speaker 2: Oh wait one.
0:40
Speaker 1: Second, chicken lever.
0:44
Speaker 2: Oh did you hear that in the background?
0:46
Speaker 3: Yeah?
0:46
Speaker 2: What Jackie Cohen? Oh did you hear that?
0:51
Speaker 4: Jackie Coin?
0:57
Speaker 1: What she hung up on you? I know she did
1:01
Speaker 1: imaginary parrot from Pushkin Industries. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this
1:13
Speaker 1: is Heavyweight Today's episode. Deborah right after the break.
1:37
Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, is this Barbara?
1:41
Speaker 3: No, this is Deborah.
1:44
Speaker 2: How are you related to Barbara?
1:46
Speaker 3: I don't know who Barbara is.
1:49
Speaker 1: Although this might sound like a classic cheech and chong routine,
1:53
Speaker 1: it's actually me phoning Debrah. Deborah, you should know, is
1:57
Speaker 1: one hundred and two years old. Yet it is I
2:00
Speaker 1: who is having the senior moment. Oh my, I'm so sorry.
2:04
Speaker 1: For some reason, I think I thought your name was Barbara.
2:09
Speaker 3: Hey, I've lived long enough I could take any name.
2:16
Speaker 1: I'm phoning Deborah. Her name is Deborah because she made
2:20
Speaker 1: a discovery recently that has turned her life on its head.
2:25
Speaker 1: It all began with a phone call from her daughter Lee.
2:28
Speaker 3: She called me several months ago and she said, Mom,
2:34
Speaker 3: given your age, I'd like to help you clear out
2:38
Speaker 3: your storage room. So I said fine, When are you coming?
2:44
Speaker 3: She said? Now.
2:46
Speaker 1: The storage room is a room in Deborah's Bronx apartment.
2:49
Speaker 1: She affectionately calls it the snake pit. It's where expired
2:53
Speaker 1: vitamins and broken kitchen appliances collecked well. Cleaning it out,
2:57
Speaker 1: her daughter Lee saw something that caught her.
2:59
Speaker 3: Eye, and she walked out of the storage room with
3:05
Speaker 3: the cardboard box.
3:09
Speaker 1: Written across the top of the box were Debrah's initials,
3:12
Speaker 1: and beside those initials, underlined in black ink, were the
3:16
Speaker 1: words go through. When Debra lifted the lid, she uncovered
3:21
Speaker 1: something she'd stashed away long ago and had never gone through.
3:26
Speaker 3: Two hundred fifty six letters written to me when I
3:33
Speaker 3: was twenty one.
3:35
Speaker 1: The letters, tied up in ribboned bundles were from Deborah's
3:39
Speaker 1: first love, a man named Jerry Robbins.
3:43
Speaker 3: We were engaged to be married. He okay, I'm sorry.
3:56
Speaker 1: Jerry was killed in World War Two on Christmas Eve
3:59
Speaker 1: nineteen forty four.
4:01
Speaker 3: My future was shredded as well as the man that
4:06
Speaker 3: I loved.
4:08
Speaker 1: And had you forgotten about these letters?
4:12
Speaker 3: I didn't forget. I just found his death so disturbing
4:21
Speaker 3: I couldn't take it. So I sequestered that aspect of
4:28
Speaker 3: my prior life away and never looked at it again.
4:37
Speaker 5: She has a really powerful ability to flip the switch.
4:43
Speaker 2: As she calls it.
4:45
Speaker 1: This is Deborah's daughter Lee.
4:47
Speaker 5: Put it away, not think about it.
4:50
Speaker 1: And that's just what Debra did. To escape the grief
4:53
Speaker 1: of Jerry's death. She threw herself into graduate school, got
4:56
Speaker 1: a master's degree in social work, and from there life
5:00
Speaker 1: just kept unspooling. She married a man named Irving, who
5:03
Speaker 1: was an attorney and a good provider, and together they
5:07
Speaker 1: raised three kids. All the while, through sixty four years
5:11
Speaker 1: of marriage, through every move, every new chapter, Deborah kept
5:15
Speaker 1: the box with its lid closed shut until recently, nearly
5:27
Speaker 1: eighty years after Jerry's death and over a decade after
5:30
Speaker 1: the death of her husband Irving, Deborah was finally ready
5:33
Speaker 1: to open the box and start reading.
5:36
Speaker 3: Every letter, every postcard, and every V mail email V mail.
5:47
Speaker 3: The letter V as in victory right right.
5:53
Speaker 1: Will you listen to me? V? Mail, as I only
5:57
Speaker 1: later learned, was a method the government used to get
6:00
Speaker 1: soldiers letters to their families. And as Deborah read these letters,
6:04
Speaker 1: something began to happen.
6:06
Speaker 3: I fell love with Jerry again.
6:15
Speaker 1: Not only did the box contain Jerry's handwritten letters, but
6:18
Speaker 1: also a number of his poems and short stories. Jerry,
6:22
Speaker 1: Deborah tells me, was an aspiring writer with big dreams.
6:26
Speaker 3: His absolute motivation was to write, write, and compose. If
6:33
Speaker 3: he had a pencil or a pen in hand, he
6:37
Speaker 3: seek out paper to write on.
6:41
Speaker 1: The sheer volume of letters their depth and detail attest
6:44
Speaker 1: to this, and each day, sometimes all through the day,
6:48
Speaker 1: Deborah would read and reread Jerry's words, and as she did,
6:53
Speaker 1: she felt him return to her. It was like time
6:56
Speaker 1: had collapsed.
7:00
Speaker 3: How can ae hundred and one year old woman whose
7:05
Speaker 3: hormones have long since shriveled fall in love again.
7:16
Speaker 1: Debra's daughter Lee noticed the change that came over her mother,
7:20
Speaker 1: how re energized she'd become, and Lee thought that was wonderful.
7:24
Speaker 1: To a point.
7:26
Speaker 5: There's a thin line, because she started slipping into what
7:31
Speaker 5: we would call Jerry Land.
7:33
Speaker 1: Oh what is that?
7:34
Speaker 5: That is? Not label it too much, but a kind
7:39
Speaker 5: of overarching obsession with all things Jerry.
7:44
Speaker 4: All she did was live in Jerry Land.
7:49
Speaker 1: This is Debra's other daughter, Lauren.
7:52
Speaker 6: And every time I called her up or would see her,
7:55
Speaker 6: it would be Jerry said this, and Jerry said that.
7:59
Speaker 5: She would spend all my conversations with her just talking
8:06
Speaker 5: about Jerry.
8:07
Speaker 1: It sounds a little bit of the way you just
8:09
Speaker 1: describe it as like, you know, like when a teenager's
8:11
Speaker 1: in love. You know, yeah, they're just drawing like the
8:13
Speaker 1: person's name and tarts, you know, in their notebook or something.
8:17
Speaker 5: Yeah, you just can't help but talk about it all
8:21
Speaker 5: the time.
8:23
Speaker 1: Lauren says their mother stopped watching movies, reading books, attending
8:27
Speaker 1: the classes she took online.
8:29
Speaker 6: I was concerned about it. Lee was concerned about it.
8:35
Speaker 6: We all kept saying, here, mom, here's a great book,
8:39
Speaker 6: read this, watch this. Why don't you invite people over?
8:44
Speaker 6: And it was truly like she was in a bubble.
8:55
Speaker 1: Also concerning to Lauren is how since the discovery of
8:58
Speaker 1: the letters, Jerry has threatened to eclipse her late father Irving.
9:03
Speaker 1: For proof, you need look no further than Deborah's living room.
9:06
Speaker 1: On an entry table by the door is a photoph
9:09
Speaker 1: of Irving. But beside her favorite chair is one of
9:13
Speaker 1: Jerry sitting.
9:14
Speaker 6: Right next to her, and my father is off to
9:18
Speaker 6: the side.
9:19
Speaker 4: What the hell?
9:22
Speaker 1: How does that make you feel?
9:24
Speaker 4: Weird? Strange?
9:29
Speaker 1: Deborah, for her part, insists her feelings for Jerry have
9:33
Speaker 1: no bearing on the love she feels for her late husband.
9:36
Speaker 1: But this passionate side of Deborah is new to Lauren.
9:44
Speaker 6: They always say, we become more of ourselves the older
9:49
Speaker 6: we get.
9:50
Speaker 2: Do you think so?
9:52
Speaker 4: I think so, don't you.
9:56
Speaker 1: I'd like to think so. Yeah. I mean it certainly
9:58
Speaker 1: seems like with your mother. I mean she continues to grow,
10:00
Speaker 1: you know.
10:02
Speaker 4: She does.
10:03
Speaker 6: There's a great line I love to quote and it's
10:09
Speaker 6: from Metallica, Metallica, the heavy metal Dads, and they one
10:16
Speaker 6: of the lines is my lifestyle determines.
10:19
Speaker 4: My death style. And I think it's a great line.
10:26
Speaker 6: Like not she's not dying, but you know, I think
10:31
Speaker 6: we just keep becoming more. Yeah, and oh there, I'm
10:38
Speaker 6: sorry for all these texts.
10:41
Speaker 4: My husband just got nominated for two Emmys.
10:44
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, that's fantastic.
10:47
Speaker 4: Yeah.
10:48
Speaker 1: As it happens, Lauren's husband is the award winning documentary
10:52
Speaker 1: filmmaker Joe Berlinger. Among his work some kind of monster,
10:58
Speaker 1: an exploration of Metallica's experience in group therapy.
11:02
Speaker 6: He just got dominated in My whole family is like, Yay,
11:06
Speaker 6: that's great, your grads.
11:09
Speaker 1: Good for him, But you know, it's also good as good,
11:13
Speaker 1: if not better than being nominated for TV's most prestigious award.
11:19
Speaker 1: Helping people. And right now I'm going to help Deborah
11:24
Speaker 1: with something she's taken to calling her mandate.
11:30
Speaker 3: When I was a daughter, I had an obligation to
11:34
Speaker 3: my parents, as a student, to my teacher in my school,
11:39
Speaker 3: as a wife and a mother to my family. But
11:44
Speaker 3: now that I've lived this long, my mandate is to
11:51
Speaker 3: do something with these amazing letters.
11:57
Speaker 1: Deborah hopes to honor Jerry by giving his writing an audience.
12:01
Speaker 1: It occurs to me that I have an audience, and
12:04
Speaker 1: perhaps if Deborah and I read through the letters together,
12:08
Speaker 1: it would fulfill her man and allow her to move on.
12:12
Speaker 1: I put the idea to Lee. Do you think like
12:14
Speaker 1: getting something out there into the world would allow her
12:19
Speaker 1: to leave Jerry Land?
12:21
Speaker 2: Yeah?
12:22
Speaker 5: I do, because he'll always be twenty one. He'll always
12:27
Speaker 5: be a writer who never got to live his potential.
12:34
Speaker 5: So there's this quality of stuckness or stasis getting his
12:41
Speaker 5: work out there. It's almost like she gets to the.
12:46
Speaker 3: End, can you come to my apartment?
12:51
Speaker 1: Well, I'm in Minnesota.
12:55
Speaker 3: I wouldn't fly out where you are, but if you
12:59
Speaker 3: can come to my home, I would be journally grateful
13:05
Speaker 3: for as long as I last.
13:09
Speaker 1: I mean, I would love to see the letters, and
13:11
Speaker 1: it would be uh, it would be really nice to
13:14
Speaker 1: meet you in person.
13:16
Speaker 3: Okay, mister Goldsting, So come up, yeah, said the old
13:23
Speaker 3: lighty to the young man.
13:27
Speaker 1: And so it looks like this fifty six year old
13:30
Speaker 1: young man is heading off to New York because, like
13:34
Speaker 1: the writing on the box says, maybe the only way
13:37
Speaker 1: out is to go through. And speaking of going through,
13:44
Speaker 1: it's time for you to grease up the wheels on
13:47
Speaker 1: your shopping cart and go through some ads. Two hundred
14:10
Speaker 1: and fifty six letters. It took several weeks for my
14:14
Speaker 1: producer Phoebe and me to read them all. Many of
14:17
Speaker 1: the letters were missing dates and locations, but we puzzled
14:20
Speaker 1: our way through, doing our best to bring chronological order,
14:24
Speaker 1: and as we did, a life emerged and a portrait
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Speaker 1: of the young man who lived it. Went through all
14:30
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty six of the letters.
14:33
Speaker 3: Oh boy, so you know Jerry.
14:37
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, So let's uh, why don't we just start
14:42
Speaker 1: off by reading the first letter?
14:44
Speaker 4: Here goes.
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Speaker 3: Dear deb finding myself with a few spare moments.
14:52
Speaker 1: Jerry's first letters are from the spring of nineteen forty,
14:56
Speaker 1: nearly four years before he enlisted.
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Speaker 3: My mother advised me that she doesn't mind my saying
15:04
Speaker 3: in your house till all hours of the night. She
15:09
Speaker 3: likes you quite a bit, which practically makes it unanimous.
15:18
Speaker 1: Deborah and Jerry had been friends since their elementary school
15:21
Speaker 1: days in Brooklyn, but their friendship was beginning to blossom
15:25
Speaker 1: into something more. What were you guys doing until all
15:30
Speaker 1: hours of the night?
15:32
Speaker 3: Talking as passionate as it was, it was never consummated,
15:40
Speaker 3: which is my regret. It is a regret, oh intensely so.
15:47
Speaker 1: Deborah says she was waiting for marriage.
15:50
Speaker 3: But we would have had a hot time together. I
15:58
Speaker 3: forgot that I'm being cool.
16:08
Speaker 1: Jerry over an hour away by subway, and before texting
16:12
Speaker 1: emails and the prevalence of phone calls, weekend rendezvous were
16:16
Speaker 1: planned out over letters. Jerry's writing is clever. In one missive,
16:22
Speaker 1: he invites Deborah out to a show for New Year's Eve.
16:25
Speaker 1: When she doesn't give him a straight answer, he sends
16:28
Speaker 1: a follow up to help you make a decision, and
16:31
Speaker 1: for your convenience, you will find on page four of
16:34
Speaker 1: this letter a ballot. Just check one and mail within
16:39
Speaker 1: the next week. The ballot shows two options, yes and yes.
16:49
Speaker 2: Be it.
16:49
Speaker 1: In his letters or his short stories, Jerry had away
16:52
Speaker 1: with a closing line. His fiction often showcased an ironic
16:56
Speaker 1: reveal in the final sentence. In one story, the piecenake
17:01
Speaker 1: babbling in the mental institution turns out to be a
17:04
Speaker 1: former war commissioner. In another, the motorist who stops to
17:08
Speaker 1: help a stranded world turns out to be an executioner
17:11
Speaker 1: on his way to put the woman's son to death.
17:15
Speaker 1: They were like Twilight Zone episodes. Almost twenty years before
17:18
Speaker 1: the show went on the air, Jerry shared drafts of
17:22
Speaker 1: these stories along with poems. Deborah appreciated his lyrical turns
17:26
Speaker 1: of phrase.
17:28
Speaker 3: I call them Jerry is instead of war, he says,
17:35
Speaker 3: man made madness instead of bullet hot sperm of death.
17:48
Speaker 4: How is that.
17:50
Speaker 3: Hot sperm of death?
17:56
Speaker 1: I'm no poet, but it strikes me that the mighty
17:59
Speaker 1: Metallica itself would be proud to name an album something
18:04
Speaker 1: so in one's face. As a student at Columbia studying
18:15
Speaker 1: to be a writer, Jerry was exempt from the draft,
18:19
Speaker 1: but in the winter of nineteen forty three, he decided
18:22
Speaker 1: to leave school and enlist. Aside from his parents, Deborah
18:27
Speaker 1: was the first person he told. Since one of my
18:30
Speaker 1: guiding rules, he wrote, has always been to thine own
18:34
Speaker 1: self be true. I feel I can't stay out any
18:37
Speaker 1: longer just paying lip service to my beliefs. From boot camp,
18:42
Speaker 1: Jerry's letters arrived in Deborah's mailbox every day. His clever
18:46
Speaker 1: short stories with the tidy twilight's own endings gave way
18:50
Speaker 1: to reportage. Jerry detailed the eccentric characters he met, the
18:54
Speaker 1: sergeant with a jaw like a rock, the chaplain who
18:57
Speaker 1: was a secret lush, but he also shared his feelings.
19:02
Speaker 1: In one letter, he described the first time he stood
19:04
Speaker 1: before a mirror and saw himself in uniform, how it
19:07
Speaker 1: gave him chills. As training became more grueling and the
19:12
Speaker 1: thought of war more present and real, Jerry sought refuge
19:15
Speaker 1: in Deborah, summoning her presence during lonely evenings at camp
19:20
Speaker 1: or long marches in the heat. I didn't mind walking
19:24
Speaker 1: because I wasn't alone. You were with me, walking by
19:28
Speaker 1: my side and keeping me company All the time. We
19:31
Speaker 1: spoke about a thousand things, my furlough, the invasion, what
19:36
Speaker 1: we're going to do together when I come back. I
19:39
Speaker 1: recited poetry to you, and when no one was watching,
19:42
Speaker 1: I put my arms around you, held you close to me,
19:46
Speaker 1: and whispered I love you into your ears. Jerry and
19:58
Speaker 1: Deborah created a ritual which they enacted at ten o'clock
20:02
Speaker 1: each evening. Jerry called it their nightly meeting. When the
20:06
Speaker 1: hour struck, they dropped whatever they were doing, and in
20:09
Speaker 1: the absence of a telephone, each would simply think of
20:12
Speaker 1: the other. I close my eyes, Jerry rode. The world
20:17
Speaker 1: fades away, and then it's now.
20:22
Speaker 3: Now was one of our secret words. The only thing
20:28
Speaker 3: that was real was here and now. Through the ebony
20:40
Speaker 3: of night, I reach out for you, and from across
20:45
Speaker 3: the wide expense of c you come, your eyes flashing,
20:52
Speaker 3: your body warm and curved. This is the only place,
20:59
Speaker 3: this is the only time here and now.
21:14
Speaker 2: Do you want to read another letter?
21:17
Speaker 1: This one will be a special one.
21:19
Speaker 3: Sure, So here I go again, doing things cruelly and
21:25
Speaker 3: probably very badly, Honey, I want to get engaged on
21:31
Speaker 3: my furlough. I needn't add that I'm anxiously and eagerly
21:39
Speaker 3: awaiting your reply.
21:41
Speaker 4: Just say yes.
21:43
Speaker 1: And here Deborah recites from memory her reply from over
21:47
Speaker 1: eighty years ago.
21:49
Speaker 3: My answer to you is yes, yes, Yes.
21:56
Speaker 1: Back at bootcamp, time marched on, and in the fall
21:59
Speaker 1: of nineteen forty four, Jerry received notice he was going
22:03
Speaker 1: to be deployed. But before his deployment, he was granted
22:07
Speaker 1: a final furlough, so he went home to see Deborah,
22:11
Speaker 1: where he gave her a ring. Together they made plans
22:14
Speaker 1: for the future, talked about everything that lay ahead once
22:17
Speaker 1: he was home for good. Then, standing on the subway
22:21
Speaker 1: platform in Washington Heights, they said their last goodbye.
22:25
Speaker 3: I couldn't almost feel it. I remember kissing him and saying,
22:33
Speaker 3: this isn't good. I don't know what's happening. And I
22:39
Speaker 3: went into the train and I cried hysterically all the
22:46
Speaker 3: way till the last stop.
22:49
Speaker 1: On that train, Jerry's company was shipped off to England,
22:58
Speaker 1: where American soldiers were preparing to join the fight in
23:01
Speaker 1: mainland Europe. Unbeknownst to them, they were destined for one
23:05
Speaker 1: of the deadliest campaigns of World War Two, the Battle
23:08
Speaker 1: of the Bulge, but they never made it there. Jerry
23:13
Speaker 1: was among more than twenty two hundred men loaded onto
23:15
Speaker 1: a troop ship on Christmas Eve. The ship was bound
23:19
Speaker 1: for Cherbourg, France, just a short trip across the English Channel,
23:24
Speaker 1: but hours later, just five miles from the entrance to
23:26
Speaker 1: the harbor, a torpedo strock. A survivor described the slender
23:31
Speaker 1: silver missile cutting through the water and colliding with the
23:34
Speaker 1: ship as having shaken the vessel from stern to stern.
23:39
Speaker 1: Hundreds of men in the lower decks were killed instantly
23:42
Speaker 1: as the sea rushed into the massive gash. Those who
23:46
Speaker 1: made it to the upper decks weren't much better off.
23:50
Speaker 1: They'd not been briefed on how to lower the lifeboats
23:52
Speaker 1: or free the rafts that might have carried them to safety.
23:56
Speaker 1: That they were told was the job of the crew.
23:59
Speaker 1: But the crew, a Belgian outfit, spoke little English and
24:03
Speaker 1: had little loyalty to the American troops aboard, And so
24:06
Speaker 1: it happened that many crew members and in ship, while
24:10
Speaker 1: the Americans aboard still had no idea they were slowly sinking.
24:15
Speaker 1: Many soldiers were presumed to have gone down with the ship.
24:19
Speaker 1: Others were lost to injuries in hypothermia. In the end,
24:23
Speaker 1: seven hundred and sixty three men died. Jerry was one
24:27
Speaker 1: of them. After six months of training, he saw one
24:31
Speaker 1: day of war. The scale of death was so needless,
24:41
Speaker 1: the failed emergency response so poor that for decades the
24:45
Speaker 1: US government covered up the details. Survivors risked losing their
24:49
Speaker 1: veteran benefits if they talked, and so when a family
24:53
Speaker 1: was notified that they'd lost a loved one, only the
24:56
Speaker 1: barest details were shared.
24:58
Speaker 3: I was in Jerry's parents' home. His mother and father
25:05
Speaker 3: were in the room. They handed me that telegram.
25:12
Speaker 1: In the months before he died, looking towards the war
25:15
Speaker 1: he was about to enter, Jerry wrote a poem, all
25:19
Speaker 1: I ask for God in the brief second before eternity
25:22
Speaker 1: swallows me up a glimpse of the world that is
25:26
Speaker 1: to be where no man need make a prayer like mine?
25:30
Speaker 1: Then will I know there is meaning amidst this man
25:33
Speaker 1: made madness.
25:39
Speaker 3: In a certain way, I've never verbalized this, but in
25:47
Speaker 3: a certain way. The discovery of those letters have turned
25:55
Speaker 3: my life upside down, because I don't feel as happy
26:03
Speaker 3: as I used to feel. I really don't.
26:07
Speaker 1: It's the first time I've heard Debra say this. I
26:09
Speaker 1: thought for Deborah, jerry Land was a happy escape, and
26:13
Speaker 1: it seems it can be. But there's sadness there too.
26:17
Speaker 1: After discovering the box, Deborah found herself having nightmares. The
26:22
Speaker 1: letters abruptly end in nineteen forty four, so in place
26:26
Speaker 1: of an actual ending, Deborah's mindcrafted its own. She dreamt
26:30
Speaker 1: of Jerry in the water. She dreamt of him frozen
26:33
Speaker 1: in the English Channel, and it was like a piece
26:36
Speaker 1: of Deborah was stuck there with him. Recently, though, I
26:40
Speaker 1: learned something that might help Deborah to work herself free.
26:49
Speaker 1: A few months ago, a genealogist friend of the family
26:53
Speaker 1: was doing some digging and turned up something surprising, something
26:57
Speaker 1: that Debora never knew. Jerry's body wasn't in the English Channel,
27:02
Speaker 1: nor was it buried somewhere in Europe. Jerry's body had
27:06
Speaker 1: actually been repatriated back to America and interred in a
27:10
Speaker 1: Jewish cemetery called Mount Lebanon, And it turns out the
27:14
Speaker 1: cemetery is not an hour's drive from Deborah's apartment. To
27:21
Speaker 1: move on from jerry Land, maybe Deborah needs more than
27:24
Speaker 1: just to revisit the past, or honor the past. Maybe
27:28
Speaker 1: she needs to grieve it. Leaving the house at one
27:32
Speaker 1: hundred and two is not so easily done, and Deborah
27:35
Speaker 1: has yet to visit Jerry's grave. I ask if it
27:38
Speaker 1: might be something we can do together.
27:40
Speaker 3: Anything that brings me closer to him some game.
27:48
Speaker 1: After the break Jerry. Just as I'm about to book
28:12
Speaker 1: a minivan for our visit to the cemetery, I receive
28:16
Speaker 1: an invitation to a video conference. Hello, Hey, sorry, I
28:22
Speaker 1: had to I guess log in. Debra's Emmy Award winning
28:27
Speaker 1: son in law, Joe Berlinger, also wants to come to
28:30
Speaker 1: the cemetery to film for his own project about Debra.
28:35
Speaker 4: I mean, we're all such huge fans of Heavyweight that
28:38
Speaker 4: we're so excited that you're engaged.
28:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, right back at you. We you know,
28:47
Speaker 1: we love what you do. So we have I a
28:52
Speaker 1: pet hamster and my fanny pack. Allow me to explain
28:56
Speaker 1: my lack of enthusiasm about Joe's participation.
29:00
Speaker 2: You know, when I go out and I do something
29:01
Speaker 2: for Netflix or whatever, it's a little The.
29:03
Speaker 1: World of documentary is a hierarchy that breaks down thusly,
29:08
Speaker 1: Netflix document entries the top floor, Penthouse Suite Audio documentaries
29:14
Speaker 1: the underground parking garage where audio documentarians park their used
29:19
Speaker 1: Ford fiestas. So as much as I love Joe's work,
29:23
Speaker 1: let's just say Metallica doesn't have two lead guitarists. Let's
29:29
Speaker 1: just say it only has one. And according to the Internet,
29:34
Speaker 1: his name is Kirkley Hammett. And on this documentary shoot,
29:39
Speaker 1: I'm the Kirk.
29:40
Speaker 2: It's not like we're going to be dueling interviewers or
29:43
Speaker 2: anything like that.
29:44
Speaker 7: I want to assure you of that.
29:45
Speaker 1: I just want to be a fly on the wall
29:47
Speaker 1: and observe what's happening. Canadian etiquette dictates my not saying no,
29:52
Speaker 1: but I will be documenting you, Joe Berlinger documenting me
29:58
Speaker 1: as I document Debra. On a sunny morning in October,
30:09
Speaker 1: we all meet at Debra's Hello Hi.
30:13
Speaker 3: Hi.
30:16
Speaker 1: Debrah is seated by the window, wearing a colorful kerchief
30:20
Speaker 1: around her neck. The sunlight illuminates her shoulder length white
30:24
Speaker 1: hair in a puffy halo.
30:26
Speaker 3: I'd like to say a few words, if that's okay.
30:29
Speaker 1: Of course, Debrah has prepared a speech about Jerry that
30:33
Speaker 1: she'd like to recite at his gravesite. In fact, a
30:36
Speaker 1: few days earlier, she left a phone message saying it
30:39
Speaker 1: would be four minutes long, suggesting she'd already timed it
30:43
Speaker 1: and practiced it just to get it all right. My
30:47
Speaker 1: worry is that with a speech already committed to memory,
30:50
Speaker 1: Deborah might have already decided how and how much she
30:54
Speaker 1: wants to feel.
30:57
Speaker 4: Yep, thank you.
30:58
Speaker 1: We load into the van Deborah, her aid Hove, her
31:02
Speaker 1: daughter Lee, and my producer Phoebe. Joe seats himself up front.
31:07
Speaker 1: The papa ostensibly its so he can silently record Deborah
31:12
Speaker 1: and me in the seats behind him silently Jonathan, what
31:19
Speaker 1: are we doing today?
31:21
Speaker 3: Well?
31:24
Speaker 1: Being questioned on one's own podcast is not unlike being
31:27
Speaker 1: strapped into a baby seat in one's own fourteen seater van,
31:32
Speaker 1: which might I add, one paid for. Rather than demanding
31:36
Speaker 1: that everyone in the van pause their various recording devices
31:40
Speaker 1: so I can throw a full on Kirkley hammet level
31:43
Speaker 1: artistic tantrum, I instead do this. We are heading off
31:49
Speaker 1: to the Queen's Cemetery. I obey my master master. That's
31:58
Speaker 1: a Metallica reference. We ride through Washington Heights where Jerry
32:10
Speaker 1: grew up, past the grounds of the World's Fair where
32:13
Speaker 1: he and Deborah spent many a summer's afternoon.
32:16
Speaker 3: That was the greatest states we ever had together.
32:22
Speaker 1: They marveled over futuristic architecture, the debut of the first
32:26
Speaker 1: television Portraits of a Hopeful Future. When we arrive at
32:39
Speaker 1: the cemetery, we consult the map. The cemetery is so
32:42
Speaker 1: large that it has streets, and the streets have names.
32:46
Speaker 3: Jerry's not on Paradise Savenue, whis he actually is?
32:52
Speaker 7: Just on he is?
32:54
Speaker 3: How about that?
33:00
Speaker 8: Okay, we're ready to go.
33:03
Speaker 3: Oh okay, I got to know.
33:09
Speaker 1: We all get out of the car. According to the map,
33:12
Speaker 1: Jerry's grave isn't far. Their brousade wheels her towards the
33:16
Speaker 1: isle of tombstones. Okay.
33:22
Speaker 3: What's going through my mind now is a letter from
33:27
Speaker 3: Jerry saying there's so many things I want to do
33:33
Speaker 3: with you.
33:36
Speaker 4: Oh my, oh there.
33:40
Speaker 1: Oh and suddenly there it is the headstone beloved son
33:47
Speaker 1: and dear brother, Private Jerome Robins.
33:51
Speaker 8: Jerry, Oh God, do.
34:07
Speaker 7: You want to do this here? Okay, can get cherry.
34:22
Speaker 1: We brought along the cottage. If you wanted to say it, you.
34:27
Speaker 4: Don't have to bring it to me.
34:29
Speaker 3: I know it.
34:30
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, love for you.
34:41
Speaker 4: To say, sure, I love my career.
34:51
Speaker 1: When she's finished with the prayer for the dead, Deborah
34:54
Speaker 1: remains quiet. But then something happens, something she hadn't planned
34:59
Speaker 1: for or prepared for. Taking in the sight of all
35:02
Speaker 1: those tombstones, she just starts talking a.
35:10
Speaker 3: What a waste? This one nineteen, this beloved one twenty two,
35:19
Speaker 3: the other one twenty No more, No more wars, Please please,
35:27
Speaker 3: no more wars. There are too many beautiful, healthy, young
35:34
Speaker 3: veterans who aligned up here and probably never had a
35:41
Speaker 3: chance to live. What thieves warmongers are. Warmongers are thieves
35:52
Speaker 3: of life that was never lived. Man made madness, man
36:01
Speaker 3: made madness. Okay, I said, enough sare.
36:26
Speaker 1: Deborah will later tell me that she surprised herself for
36:29
Speaker 1: all the words she'd prepared. These words, she said, came
36:33
Speaker 1: from the guts to get through her long life. Deborah
36:37
Speaker 1: learned to box up the pain and store it neatly away.
36:41
Speaker 1: But maybe if you live long enough, everything, even those
36:45
Speaker 1: buried things, rise to the surface again, searching for light.
36:56
Speaker 4: See one more step, I know.
37:03
Speaker 1: We all load into the van and settle back in
37:06
Speaker 1: for the journey back to the Bronx. How are you feeling.
37:12
Speaker 4: I thought it would.
37:14
Speaker 3: Be painful, and it wasn't painful. I got a refill
37:22
Speaker 3: of energy. It was a little bit of steiling from
37:30
Speaker 3: his strength. And that really came from being with Jerry.
37:41
Speaker 1: A young man at a time when he needed love
37:44
Speaker 1: most conjured a spectral companion to journey by his side. Now,
37:49
Speaker 1: almost a century later, an old woman does the same.
37:54
Speaker 1: It's the sort of ironic twist that could have flowed
37:56
Speaker 1: from Jerry's pen.
38:04
Speaker 3: Hey, Joe wants some nuts, aura banana? What about a banana?
38:11
Speaker 1: Back in the van, Joe reminds Deborah that it's his daughter,
38:15
Speaker 1: Deborah's granddaughter's thirty first birthday.
38:18
Speaker 4: Oh that's right.
38:20
Speaker 2: Should we call her? Huh?
38:22
Speaker 1: Yes, When she gets home, Deborah will return some phone calls,
38:28
Speaker 1: maybe take a nap. All the little things that make
38:31
Speaker 1: up a life, all the little things that make up
38:35
Speaker 1: to hear and now, happy.
38:36
Speaker 3: Birthday, Happy birthday to you, Happy birthday to you. Off.
39:27
Speaker 6: Now that the furnitures returning to its goodwill home, Now
39:36
Speaker 6: that the last month's rent is skating with.
39:40
Speaker 4: The damage to possum, take this moment to dissolve, if
39:47
Speaker 4: we meant it, if we talk.
39:51
Speaker 2: We felt around for five from things that accidentally talk.
40:03
Speaker 1: This episode of Heavyweight was produced by Phoebe Flanagan and
40:06
Speaker 1: me Jonathan Goldstein. Our senior producer is Khalila holt Our.
40:10
Speaker 1: Supervising producer is Stevie Lane. Editorial guidance from Emily Condon.
40:16
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Chris Neary, Lucy Sullivan, Ben Nattihaffrey and
40:20
Speaker 1: Greta Cone. Special thanks also to Daria O'Connor, Jack Eiferman,
40:25
Speaker 1: and Alan Andrade. The author of the book Leopoldville A
40:29
Speaker 1: Tragedy Too Long Secret, which is a great read if
40:32
Speaker 1: you want to learn more about the sinking of Jerry's ship.
40:35
Speaker 1: Debra is publishing a collection of Jerry's writing that will
40:38
Speaker 1: soon be available on Amazon. You can find more information
40:42
Speaker 1: about the book at waitformeworld dot com. Her daughter Lee
40:46
Speaker 1: has been working on a screenplay about Debra and Jerry.
40:48
Speaker 1: She's hosting a live read of the script on January
40:52
Speaker 1: twentieth at Jazz Forum in Tarrytown, New York. As for Joe,
40:56
Speaker 1: he has two Netflix documentaries coming out early next year.
41:01
Speaker 1: Emmamonger mixed the episode with original music by Christine Fellows,
41:04
Speaker 1: John K. Sampson, Blue Dot Sessions, Bobby Lord and Emma Munger.
41:09
Speaker 1: Additional scoring by Chris Zabriski. Our theme song is by
41:12
Speaker 1: the Weaker Than's courtesy of Epitaph Records. This is the
41:17
Speaker 1: end of our season, the final episode, but we'll be
41:19
Speaker 1: back in the spring with some more fun stuff, So
41:22
Speaker 1: keep an ear out and we've got a new season
41:24
Speaker 1: coming your way next fall. So if you have a
41:27
Speaker 1: story for us, don't be withholding okay, email us at
41:30
Speaker 1: Heavyweight at Pushkin dot FM. Happy holidays to all, and
41:35
Speaker 1: thank you for your continued support and listenership. I'm Jonathan
41:39
Speaker 1: Goldstein Tata Chow. For now adieu. Don't use that stuff
41:46
Speaker 1: at the end, but you could put that part in.
41:48
Speaker 1: You could part You could put in the part of
41:50
Speaker 1: me saying don't use that stuff at the end, and
41:53
Speaker 1: then you can put in the part where I'm saying
41:54
Speaker 1: don't use this stuff. Okay. It'll be fun