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SMNTY Classics: Demystifying Disability · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Sanny and smitham welcome to Stuff I
0:08
Speaker 1: Never Told You production of iHeartRadio and for today's classic,
0:20
Speaker 1: since we are now in officially Disability Pride Month, you
0:24
Speaker 1: jumped the gun a little bit, but that's okay, that's great.
0:28
Speaker 1: We talked about this stuff all the time the time, Yes,
0:30
Speaker 1: and we do have some content we're planning around that.
0:34
Speaker 1: But for this classic, I thought it would be a
0:36
Speaker 1: good idea to bring back the book club we did
0:38
Speaker 1: on Demystifying Disability because I thought it was a great,
0:42
Speaker 1: great primer, a lot of excellent information, and yeah, you
0:48
Speaker 1: should read it. If you haven't read it, go read it,
0:51
Speaker 1: go read it. Yes, so please enjoy this classic episode. Hey,
1:01
Speaker 1: this is Anny and Samantha and look of Stuff WILL
1:03
Speaker 1: Never Told You production of VIR Heart Radio. Fuller Today's
1:15
Speaker 1: book Club. We're talking about Emily Ladoo's award winning twenty
1:18
Speaker 1: twenty one novel Demystifying Disability. What to Know, what to say,
1:23
Speaker 1: and how to be an ally. This is a practical,
1:27
Speaker 1: approachable book filled with quotes from people with all kinds
1:31
Speaker 1: of disabilities, that delves into some basics of talking about
1:35
Speaker 1: disability and actionable steps to improve these discussions. Or just
1:39
Speaker 1: your interactions with people. It also hammers home the point that,
1:44
Speaker 1: like any community, disabled people are not a monolith and
1:48
Speaker 1: are individuals with preferences when it comes to things like terminology.
1:54
Speaker 1: It's a book that doesn't fault you for your past mistakes,
1:57
Speaker 1: but is asking you to do better and get giving
2:00
Speaker 1: you the tools to do so. Not only are there
2:03
Speaker 1: breakdowns of definitions and schools of thought, but also a history,
2:08
Speaker 1: a look into all the ways ableism can manifest, media
2:11
Speaker 1: representations of disability, and ways to be a better ally
2:15
Speaker 1: both outside of and within the disabled community. It tackles
2:19
Speaker 1: complex issues in a way that is easy to digest,
2:23
Speaker 1: shines a light on nuances and differences of thought, and
2:26
Speaker 1: overall just packs so much in Despite its short length,
2:31
Speaker 1: The dow is also clear this is a starting point
2:35
Speaker 1: and gives a lot of references or things to follow
2:38
Speaker 1: up on throughout. I wish I had read it earlier, honestly.
2:44
Speaker 1: Here is a quote from the author about the author,
2:47
Speaker 1: A little about me. I have multiple disabilities, including a
2:50
Speaker 1: physical disability, a hearing disability, and mental health disabilities. I
2:56
Speaker 1: use a wheelchair because I was born with larcen syndrome LS,
3:00
Speaker 1: A joint and muscle disorder that I inherited from my
3:02
Speaker 1: mom Ellen, who also has it. You might think that
3:05
Speaker 1: are both having LS is a tragedy, but we don't.
3:09
Speaker 1: In my humble opinion, it's pretty fantastic to have somebody
3:12
Speaker 1: built into my life who just gets me. And I
3:16
Speaker 1: would say, just go read it, like we're going to
3:18
Speaker 1: go over some of it in here, but as always
3:21
Speaker 1: with these book clubs, we want you to check it
3:24
Speaker 1: out yourself, support office, yourself. But I also think it
3:27
Speaker 1: was it's just a really useful breakdown of a lot
3:34
Speaker 1: of the the ways people run into being too afraid
3:39
Speaker 1: to talk about disability or not knowing quite what to say. Hm. Yes,
3:46
Speaker 1: so go read it.
3:48
Speaker 2: Read it. It's not long, it's available in every as
3:53
Speaker 2: it actually found it in several libraries too.
3:56
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and it's got cute illustrations.
4:00
Speaker 2: Illustrations cover is wonderful mm hmmm, very very approachable. You
4:06
Speaker 2: should definitely read it.
4:08
Speaker 1: Yes, it's essentially broken into like topics such as terminology
4:16
Speaker 1: or allyship or media, but it really does. It packs
4:21
Speaker 1: so much in Like when I left after I finished,
4:24
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I will absorb so much information. This
4:30
Speaker 1: was great. Yeah. Yeah, so that's kind of the layout
4:35
Speaker 1: of it, but we will go over as we like
4:38
Speaker 1: to do in our book club episodes and themes. One
4:42
Speaker 1: I would say is that it's just very informative. It's
4:46
Speaker 1: like around the basics of talking about disability or just
4:50
Speaker 1: knowing about disability. So here's a quote one billion, more
4:55
Speaker 1: than one billion people around the world are disabled in fact,
4:58
Speaker 1: or the world's largest minority. And that comes constantly into
5:06
Speaker 1: play with, as we said, a community not being a
5:09
Speaker 1: monolith and people having these differing ideas about how we
5:13
Speaker 1: should talk about things in the language we should use,
5:16
Speaker 1: and that's all really healthy discourse. But it's a huge
5:20
Speaker 1: it's a huge community. And as we've discussed before, you
5:22
Speaker 1: can also be temporarily able person. You might like break
5:26
Speaker 1: your leg and then suddenly you'll you'll be thinking about
5:29
Speaker 1: ramps or stairs or something like that.
5:32
Speaker 2: Right, there's definitely a lot to that. And then also
5:35
Speaker 2: that conversation, like even with aging, that that becomes a
5:39
Speaker 2: conversation about like your abilities and you're no longer able
5:43
Speaker 2: body quote unquote. And I think this is such a
5:46
Speaker 2: timely of course, this month is very very important. Why
5:50
Speaker 2: we need to talk about it, and we should really
5:51
Speaker 2: highlight more information about it, but like, especially in conversations
5:55
Speaker 2: with the recent bills past again it's twenty twenty five,
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Speaker 2: and they co opting the word able body, which really
6:02
Speaker 2: pisses me off to no end, really forgetting the years
6:07
Speaker 2: and years of work that disabled activists have been doing
6:10
Speaker 2: and talking about what able body meanings versus what it
6:13
Speaker 2: isn't and how it's being weaponized and why this could
6:15
Speaker 2: be a problem, especially when we talk about working and
6:19
Speaker 2: having equal rights all these things as well as benefits
6:22
Speaker 2: and why that is important for the disabled community and
6:26
Speaker 2: that it should be a human right and this bill
6:30
Speaker 2: has gone backwards. So I would really love to hear
6:32
Speaker 2: Emily's take because in this book, I feel like she
6:34
Speaker 2: packs a lot and we talk about it, it feels
6:37
Speaker 2: almost overwhelming because you do hear the back and forth
6:40
Speaker 2: of like, Okay, so I'm not supposed to do this,
6:41
Speaker 2: but I'm supposed to do this, but I did do this,
6:43
Speaker 2: but this could be wrong to this person, which she
6:45
Speaker 2: reiterates oftentimes that this is a personal preference in what
6:50
Speaker 2: she's speaking specifically the dos and don'ts, But like everybody's
6:55
Speaker 2: an individual, and if you're truly in tune with that
7:00
Speaker 2: conversation and in that alignment, just like you would ask
7:02
Speaker 2: anybody pronouns wise like all of that that we should
7:05
Speaker 2: ask their preference in how things are spoken, because different
7:09
Speaker 2: people have different takes, which takes lot. She talks a
7:12
Speaker 2: lot about, so I know we're going to get into
7:15
Speaker 2: two ideals I guess labels that I didn't really think
7:18
Speaker 2: much of until she did it. But I think, yeah,
7:21
Speaker 2: all of this is so very important, very but still introductory,
7:26
Speaker 2: and I think that has a lot to do with
7:27
Speaker 2: our ableism that is so ingrained in us, just as
7:30
Speaker 2: much just misogyny is, like we talk a lot about,
7:33
Speaker 2: like the internalized misogyny that was hard to let go of,
7:36
Speaker 2: but we have to talk about the internalized ableism that
7:40
Speaker 2: we don't think about, and oftentimes we excuse us. Eh,
7:43
Speaker 2: they understand, but that's a problem that shouldn't be the fact.
7:46
Speaker 2: But I know I'm going too far into this. There's
7:49
Speaker 2: a lot there was, Like there's this back and forth
7:51
Speaker 2: of every chapter, every page saying something and then like
7:55
Speaker 2: kind of reiterating another point, and you're trying to figure
7:57
Speaker 2: out for yourself where you think you will, which is
8:00
Speaker 2: a little bit selfish, but at the same time trying
8:02
Speaker 2: to become educated or more educated even before because some
8:07
Speaker 2: of these things that we have talked about before, we've
8:08
Speaker 2: talked about activists and their preferences, and they're understanding, but
8:13
Speaker 2: like in understanding that we still have to take apart
8:16
Speaker 2: some of the others, such as like an infantilizing, such
8:19
Speaker 2: as the fear of doing something wrong. You know, all
8:22
Speaker 2: these things which holds you back into not want to
8:25
Speaker 2: interact with people with disabilities. And it's just a it's overwhelming.
8:30
Speaker 2: But sheily does a great job in trying to break
8:33
Speaker 2: those down.
8:35
Speaker 1: She does, and she's very it's it's when the book opened,
8:40
Speaker 1: she says, you know, I wish I didn't have to
8:43
Speaker 1: do this, but we've got to do it because nobody's
8:45
Speaker 1: talking about it. And these are these basics. But she's
8:49
Speaker 1: also very I don't think non judgmental. I don't know
8:54
Speaker 1: what the right word is, but she's basically like, I
8:56
Speaker 1: want you to learn more. I'm not trying to shame you.
8:58
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say, we've all been taught disablest ideal,
9:04
Speaker 1: all these iblist ideals, and I want us all to
9:09
Speaker 1: become move on from that how we can. So she
9:12
Speaker 1: constantly is saying like, there's not gonna be a test
9:14
Speaker 1: at the end. Yeah, like it's going to be We're
9:17
Speaker 1: gonna get through this.
9:19
Speaker 2: And also she allows for mistakes, yes, and just in
9:23
Speaker 2: the same conversation we had with Joey when we talk
9:25
Speaker 2: about like pronouns and understanding that you know, gender maybe
9:30
Speaker 2: not as it seems, especially for specific people, and then
9:33
Speaker 2: like trying to come into that and understanding that and
9:37
Speaker 2: being a person who is learning, uh, these new languages
9:41
Speaker 2: that that they've always existed, but previously we had a
9:45
Speaker 2: different mindset and understanding about it. And as we learn
9:49
Speaker 2: more and more and understanding that we are celebrating things
9:52
Speaker 2: and therefore in celebration we also have to acknowledge where
9:56
Speaker 2: this uh, where the knowledge is coming FROMNOLG the knowledge
10:00
Speaker 2: in saying like I think we have oftentimes here when
10:04
Speaker 2: people like say things like I don't like this, I
10:06
Speaker 2: don't want this. This is offensive, and people are like, well,
10:09
Speaker 2: if you're so mad about it, then do something about it,
10:13
Speaker 2: and they have. Emily has like, I think that's the
10:15
Speaker 2: kind of thing about The bigger question is before, before
10:19
Speaker 2: now we wouldn't even allow that, we wouldn't even hate
10:22
Speaker 2: that as as a knowledge as information as facts that
10:28
Speaker 2: we need to understand. So there's so much to that
10:31
Speaker 2: that she gives us. And in this I think she's
10:33
Speaker 2: very understanding that it's still a stepping stone to unlearned
10:37
Speaker 2: something is just as difficult to learn something. But we
10:41
Speaker 2: all need to understand in this, in this pathways that
10:46
Speaker 2: we're going to be wrong, acknowledge those wrongs, apologize honestly,
10:53
Speaker 2: and then learn and grow with it. And that's that
10:55
Speaker 2: bigger part that she's trying to say. I think in
10:59
Speaker 2: this level of like, yeah, when you're not in this world,
11:03
Speaker 2: it's it's something that you have to learn.
11:08
Speaker 1: Yes, And she's very open about instances in which she
11:12
Speaker 1: has made mistakes, so she's also she makes clear that
11:20
Speaker 1: she wants this to be an accessible book in terms
11:23
Speaker 1: of it is let's just start at one oh one
11:29
Speaker 1: and and writes it very clearly and is not testing you,
11:33
Speaker 1: but it's just giving you this tool, but like honestly
11:36
Speaker 1: giving these tools because I remember you and I have
11:41
Speaker 1: had discussions about we were worried about using the wrong
11:47
Speaker 1: the wrong terminology. We just and I remember lamenting to
11:53
Speaker 1: Eves once this isn't what we do. But I remember
11:56
Speaker 1: lamenting to Eves once that I felt like nobody talks
11:58
Speaker 1: about things they think are too tough to talk about,
12:00
Speaker 1: and I think disability falls in that for a lot
12:03
Speaker 1: of people, because they're so we've been so indoctrinated with
12:08
Speaker 1: this idea that you don't talk about.
12:10
Speaker 2: It, right, that you silence it, and it's an impolite, yes,
12:17
Speaker 2: to even acknowledge it. Mm hmm. She even talks about
12:21
Speaker 2: the historical context of having some terms that really go
12:25
Speaker 2: back to using them as entertainment only and if not
12:30
Speaker 2: to be silenced and put into the like darkness, essentially
12:33
Speaker 2: like put away where you cann't find the and we
12:35
Speaker 2: know that's been a historical thing all over the world
12:39
Speaker 2: in the fact that still kind of happens. Of course,
12:41
Speaker 2: that goes along also with the eugenics. She does touch
12:45
Speaker 2: onto that, if I remember correctly, Yes, but of course
12:49
Speaker 2: that's not the entire book, although that's a clear reminder
12:52
Speaker 2: of why these conversations are so important that we don't
12:55
Speaker 2: do that again, we don't don't we don't fall back
12:58
Speaker 2: to that or unless see when it's coming.
13:03
Speaker 1: Yes, she does talk about she has a history section
13:08
Speaker 1: which she is very clear is very abbreviated and just
13:10
Speaker 1: a jumping, jumping off point. But she does talk about
13:14
Speaker 1: eugenics and the history of that. She also does talk
13:18
Speaker 1: about disability and intersectionality and privilege a lot because she's
13:24
Speaker 1: a white woman in a wheelchair, so she just talks
13:27
Speaker 1: about the differences and how she's treated versus other people.
13:32
Speaker 1: But she also talks about judgment within communities. Again, this
13:37
Speaker 1: is the largest minority community in the world, so I
13:42
Speaker 1: can't really escape it. I could talk about that in
13:45
Speaker 1: the LGBTQ plus community ad nauseum, but I think people
13:50
Speaker 1: sometimes if they're outside of the community, assume like everybody agrees,
13:55
Speaker 1: but that's not the case. But yes, she also talks
14:09
Speaker 1: about ableism, right, yes, And we.
14:14
Speaker 2: Got a quote here and it says, but ableism takes
14:17
Speaker 2: a heavy toll. Too many disabled people have been led
14:20
Speaker 2: to believe that our very lives are not worth living.
14:23
Speaker 2: And if there's one thing, just one that you take
14:26
Speaker 2: away from reading this book, let it be this, that
14:29
Speaker 2: line of thinking is unequivocally untrue. Disabled lives are worth living.
14:35
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, she was talking about some tropes and any
14:39
Speaker 2: and I've actually talked about this specific movie before and
14:42
Speaker 2: I refuse to watch anything like this because it is.
14:45
Speaker 2: There's something too that's like, uh, why, I've seen many
14:51
Speaker 2: of people who are entirely happy and are fine. I
14:57
Speaker 2: think this and the same trope as like it's the
15:01
Speaker 2: end of their lives, ties like they're angry, they're hostile,
15:04
Speaker 2: they're all bitter about the world, and that's not true.
15:07
Speaker 2: It's the same thing with like Forrest Gump, like I said,
15:10
Speaker 2: he eventually does find his joy, but this like trope
15:14
Speaker 2: of like I'm angry because of this, this and this.
15:16
Speaker 2: I'm like he probably has more ptsded and anger, but
15:19
Speaker 2: you know whatever. Uh, And in understanding, there's just so
15:24
Speaker 2: many people who would be seemingly abled body who are
15:30
Speaker 2: going through tough times and probably are are talking about
15:34
Speaker 2: how they feel like life is not worth living because
15:37
Speaker 2: of a like sephalism. But then that's the same thing.
15:40
Speaker 2: It's kind of like that level of like the reasons
15:42
Speaker 2: are not because of this, the reason is because of this,
15:45
Speaker 2: like you know, like the differing it doesn't matter necessarily,
15:48
Speaker 2: and the way that we have to be like oh no,
15:51
Speaker 2: but you have to be so unhappy because you can't
15:53
Speaker 2: do the A, B or C, which is so it
15:56
Speaker 2: is truly offensive.
15:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, And we've talked about a lot of those. We'll
16:02
Speaker 1: come back to some of those tropes later, but it's
16:05
Speaker 1: sort of the like overcoming disability or fixing disability or
16:08
Speaker 1: praying over disability.
16:11
Speaker 2: But she told me like she talks about being prayed over.
16:15
Speaker 2: I was like, no, he's a kid too.
16:20
Speaker 1: But we are going to talk about some of the
16:22
Speaker 1: because one of the points she also makes is that
16:27
Speaker 1: you know, if we had if things were accessible, if
16:33
Speaker 1: the government was providing for us, like then we wouldn't
16:37
Speaker 1: have perhaps so much anchor, Like it's not coming from
16:41
Speaker 1: the disability necessarily, it's coming from the lack of support.
16:47
Speaker 2: Lack of support like, oh, we're going to talk so
16:49
Speaker 2: much more about that. But I also think about the
16:52
Speaker 2: fact that she talks about her dad, you know, and
16:55
Speaker 2: finding that no, he's a normal person who loves his family.
16:59
Speaker 2: I don't understand and why there's pity on him or
17:02
Speaker 2: like extra good for you, like extra awards or for
17:08
Speaker 2: him for me, And it's just there's just this level
17:11
Speaker 2: in that conversation too. But she talks about but what
17:14
Speaker 2: about the fact that you know, my mom and I
17:16
Speaker 2: able to bring this type of joy in and he
17:18
Speaker 2: loves like we love him as much as he loves
17:20
Speaker 2: us and we are an equal relationships, like this is
17:23
Speaker 2: a necessary tone to take, and when it's just like no,
17:26
Speaker 2: but this is a marriage for family, I don't understand
17:29
Speaker 2: why you're doing this in that level of well, like
17:32
Speaker 2: we are happy, we are a happy family. We have
17:36
Speaker 2: just just the same stress, Like we have just as
17:39
Speaker 2: much stress as the next family.
17:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't really need to comment on your honestly, Okay.
17:47
Speaker 1: So that does bring us to the terminology, which I
17:52
Speaker 1: really appreciate it because we have gone back and forth.
17:56
Speaker 1: So here's a quote. There's one thing we should have
18:00
Speaker 1: dressed right away. We need to stop using the word handicapped.
18:03
Speaker 1: It's an outdated term that's fallen out of favor with
18:06
Speaker 1: most disabled people, and quite frankly, it makes my skin crawl.
18:09
Speaker 1: Occasionally I'll find myself saying things such as handicapped bathroom
18:12
Speaker 1: or a handicapped entrance because old terminology dies hard. But
18:17
Speaker 1: there are better words to use. Talking about a person
18:20
Speaker 1: disability is better than handicapped. Pointing out a parking spot
18:23
Speaker 1: with the blue lines, it's accessible parking, and then she
18:27
Speaker 1: also breaks down, So this is what we really have been, like,
18:31
Speaker 1: what should we do person first language versus identity first language.
18:35
Speaker 1: So person first language would be something like person with
18:39
Speaker 1: a disability to stress that they are a person who
18:42
Speaker 1: happens to have a disability. Identity first language would be
18:45
Speaker 1: something like disabled person, where the disability is a part
18:49
Speaker 1: of their identity. People have preferences, but neither are wrong,
18:54
Speaker 1: And a running scene throughout this book is just politely
18:58
Speaker 1: ask if you're not sure or you know, perhaps they
19:01
Speaker 1: might correct you, and don't be defensive about it, right.
19:04
Speaker 2: And that, Yeah, that was that bigger point. It's like,
19:06
Speaker 2: if they correct you, if they care enough about you
19:09
Speaker 2: and care enough to have a relationship with you to
19:12
Speaker 2: be like, eh, I would rather you say this about me,
19:14
Speaker 2: then you listen to that.
19:16
Speaker 1: Uh.
19:17
Speaker 2: My initial reaction to any of body that corrects me,
19:21
Speaker 2: I freak out, thinking that I have done the worst
19:23
Speaker 2: thing ever, and then I smiral for days and just
19:28
Speaker 2: want to rod away. But she even makes a point
19:32
Speaker 2: about that, and she's like, don't make this about yourself,
19:34
Speaker 2: and I was like, well, damn, So there's there's a
19:40
Speaker 2: lot to that, but it really knows because she was
19:42
Speaker 2: just like it's just it's and it's fine, Like it
19:45
Speaker 2: means just as much if you listen and respect that
19:48
Speaker 2: and then learn from that from then on. And I
19:50
Speaker 2: think that's that back and forth is like as a
19:52
Speaker 2: show that we do. We talk and make this about us,
19:55
Speaker 2: but trying to get it correctly. This is why I think,
19:59
Speaker 2: like things like the activists around the world, when I
20:01
Speaker 2: talk about them, I take what they label they have labeled.
20:04
Speaker 2: Often I will quote them in order to get it correctly.
20:09
Speaker 2: Of course, people are like, why do you have them
20:10
Speaker 2: on the show? We would love to, We would love
20:12
Speaker 2: to for the short segments. It's not worth their time.
20:15
Speaker 2: But in the biggest tim is we do love those
20:17
Speaker 2: types of interactions. Sometimes we just have too much on
20:20
Speaker 2: our plate, all of that to say, having that, being
20:24
Speaker 2: able to see that, and if you don't have that,
20:27
Speaker 2: to ask that, or to say I'm apologize without pronunciations.
20:32
Speaker 2: We talk about this, we're doing, we try to do it.
20:34
Speaker 2: Sometimes we just can't get the correct ones. And unfortunately
20:37
Speaker 2: we are single person or two peoples, and we do
20:40
Speaker 2: best with what we have. But I absolutely appreciate when
20:45
Speaker 2: people do correct us and doing this correctly. I have
20:48
Speaker 2: been saying handicap still because that is the old language,
20:52
Speaker 2: but now not knowing this, I know, it's gonna take
20:54
Speaker 2: me a minute. That's gonna take me a minute, and
20:57
Speaker 2: you probably have to correct me in some things because
20:59
Speaker 2: I'll be like, okay, accessible, that makes sense. But late
21:04
Speaker 2: we don't know, and later in life, like ten years
21:06
Speaker 2: from now, that might change through it and that's okay.
21:08
Speaker 2: We just roll with the times.
21:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is what we wrote about in the preface
21:14
Speaker 1: to our book. By the way, we were like, right now,
21:17
Speaker 1: this is how people are talking about these things. But
21:21
Speaker 1: it could change and that's not that right. Other things
21:26
Speaker 1: that happened that the author talks about and these chapters
21:32
Speaker 1: are hitting disabled people against each other. So low functioning
21:36
Speaker 1: versus high functioning when it comes to ability, and all
21:39
Speaker 1: of that being kind of set to the standard of normal. Right,
21:43
Speaker 1: which what is that?
21:46
Speaker 2: Right?
21:47
Speaker 1: A parent versus not a parent, which is visible versus invisible.
21:54
Speaker 1: So some people have disabilities that you can't see on
21:58
Speaker 1: first glance or something, but pitting that against each other.
22:02
Speaker 1: And then there's medical model versus social model. So here's
22:06
Speaker 1: a quote. The social model emerged as a response to
22:09
Speaker 1: the incomplete perspective of the medical model. According to the
22:13
Speaker 1: social model, people are disabled not by medical conditions, but
22:16
Speaker 1: by environments, attitudes, and systems that create barriers. As an example,
22:21
Speaker 1: through the lens of the social model, I can attribute
22:24
Speaker 1: my status as disabled to an environment that isn't wheelchair
22:27
Speaker 1: accessible rather than my medical diagnosis. So this is sort
22:30
Speaker 1: of like if everywhere was accessible, then I wouldn't have
22:37
Speaker 1: a disability because I could get anywhere, or you know
22:40
Speaker 1: what I mean. So I thought that was a really
22:42
Speaker 1: interesting debate that people have. And then there's also common
22:50
Speaker 1: judgments or misconceptions. So here is one of my favorite quotes.
22:59
Speaker 1: It's important to remember that if you've met one disabled person,
23:03
Speaker 1: you've met one disabled person, and if you have a disability,
23:07
Speaker 1: then the only disability experience you're an expert on is
23:10
Speaker 1: your own. Yeah. I think that's good to keep in mind, right.
23:16
Speaker 2: And also even with someone else that has made a
23:19
Speaker 2: similar diagnosis, that's different. Your persons and your treatments are
23:25
Speaker 2: going to be completely different a lot of the times,
23:29
Speaker 2: So you can't put that onto that person tell them
23:31
Speaker 2: they're doing something wrong.
23:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And that's she, Like we said, she has
23:39
Speaker 1: a lot of quotes from other people with disabilities throughout
23:42
Speaker 1: the book, and she'll say sometimes like I disagree with that,
23:45
Speaker 1: but I get where they're coming from, and I think
23:48
Speaker 1: that that's important to be like, Okay, well that's your life,
23:52
Speaker 1: and I respect that decision. And that's not how I feel,
23:57
Speaker 1: but I respect that decision hurting me. Also, it does
24:12
Speaker 1: delve into, yes, using disability as an insult, and this
24:18
Speaker 1: was something that I knew. It didn't surprise me, but
24:23
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, so many of the
24:26
Speaker 1: stories she shared, what what people making these unsolicited like jokes, uh,
24:37
Speaker 1: praying a child, praying over her, unwarranted, unasked leaning on
24:44
Speaker 1: someone's wheelchair without asking, not knowing them, which I hadn't
24:47
Speaker 1: thought about how invasive that was until I read this,
24:50
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, that's real.
24:52
Speaker 2: Ultimately, that's terrible. That's such an odd thing because that's
24:54
Speaker 2: someone's her, that's how she moved, that's a part of her.
24:58
Speaker 2: But for me, in like before I read that, I
25:01
Speaker 2: was like, oh, absolutely, which I should have thought of
25:03
Speaker 2: it that way. But in my head, it's also their property.
25:06
Speaker 2: They paid for this, you know, like this is costly equipment.
25:10
Speaker 2: I like, I understand that, why would you like? It
25:15
Speaker 2: just doesn't seem and also you who don't know how
25:17
Speaker 2: stable it is, how it functions, there may be this
25:20
Speaker 2: like type of manifoctures, you know, like you never know
25:22
Speaker 2: because people have to do with what they have. Unfortunately,
25:24
Speaker 2: because this country is when it comes to again disability
25:28
Speaker 2: rights and providing the right stuff and equipment and oftentimes
25:32
Speaker 2: we'll give you with the most minimal thing and also
25:36
Speaker 2: like allowing for abilities and so if you know, you
25:39
Speaker 2: don't know, you don't know what this is. So to me,
25:42
Speaker 2: I'm like, what even in like a hospital, when they
25:47
Speaker 2: have the ones that are like kind of more accessible
25:49
Speaker 2: for uh, the the actual hospital to use themselves for
25:52
Speaker 2: different patients, I would not touch those. Yeah, So that
25:59
Speaker 2: just baffled me in first place. I was like the audacity, Yeah.
26:05
Speaker 1: Especially if because she makes clear like you know, you
26:07
Speaker 1: might have a friend you're cool with and you've communicated with, Yeah,
26:11
Speaker 1: that's okay for you to do like strangers.
26:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, even still like you're like, hmm, like the only
26:18
Speaker 2: way is like if you had permission to be like
26:20
Speaker 2: do you want me to push you here and there?
26:22
Speaker 2: And then I put something like with yours like do
26:24
Speaker 2: you mind holding this or do you mind like as
26:26
Speaker 2: so with anything like that. Just yeah, odd odd Some
26:31
Speaker 2: of these things that she was and of course like
26:33
Speaker 2: of course because people have Noku and also the ableism
26:37
Speaker 2: and those really have this like level of like yeah,
26:39
Speaker 2: this is part of my you're in my space type
26:42
Speaker 2: of thing or you're taking like there's so much to
26:44
Speaker 2: this in this conversation again of like entitlement, but like, yeah,
26:48
Speaker 2: I just could not imagine the leaning on somebody's wheelchair,
26:53
Speaker 2: which can why why ah I thought they were There
26:59
Speaker 2: was this whole thing like I don't know if you
27:00
Speaker 2: saw this debate, I know shouldn't be part of the
27:03
Speaker 2: book club. But a woman is at the Disney World
27:08
Speaker 2: saw a really cute pink wheelchair and she decided she
27:12
Speaker 2: would to take it because her daughter was tired. It
27:15
Speaker 2: was sitting in front of somewhere, and everybody was like, uh,
27:17
Speaker 2: you just took someone's property, what the like? And it
27:22
Speaker 2: just sparked the whole debate about like who has like
27:25
Speaker 2: who's this and who's that? And they're like, no, Disney
27:28
Speaker 2: definitely has their own, and I think they do have
27:30
Speaker 2: like their own, but you also have to check them
27:32
Speaker 2: check them out, right.
27:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty sure you have to check them out.
27:36
Speaker 2: And so I'm like, why was still what the is
27:40
Speaker 2: someone if you you're just tired. Why would you Why
27:43
Speaker 2: would you do this?
27:46
Speaker 1: Why would you do yeah?
27:48
Speaker 2: Yeah? And also I get very frustrated with people who
27:51
Speaker 2: are part too close to handicap spaces because they you,
27:56
Speaker 2: they may need they need that extra space, you don't
27:59
Speaker 2: know why, or they are again the invisible disability stuff
28:02
Speaker 2: like they may have why are you in anybody's business?
28:06
Speaker 1: People love policing that, and I'm not to say people
28:08
Speaker 1: will abuse it, but when my dad had like a
28:11
Speaker 1: cancer and he had the handicap, people would come up.
28:14
Speaker 1: They'd be like, you, look fine, he's got he had
28:16
Speaker 1: a cane and everything, but they would come up to
28:18
Speaker 1: him and I'm.
28:19
Speaker 3: Like, jez okay, again the audacity and this, And then
28:24
Speaker 3: again she's right, it doesn't make sense that this is
28:28
Speaker 3: people's business or this is people's entitlement, and it's more
28:31
Speaker 3: likely to happen to the people of the disability community
28:35
Speaker 3: like it may yeah.
28:37
Speaker 1: Why yeah, And she does talk about I think a
28:43
Speaker 1: lot of people are trying to prove that they're like cool,
28:47
Speaker 1: like they're not. I see your disability and I can
28:52
Speaker 1: lean on your wheelchair because I'm not freaked out by it.
28:54
Speaker 1: But the truth is you're not handling it, well, you're
28:58
Speaker 1: making the person uncomfortable and you're making it all about you.
29:01
Speaker 1: Like I think it's kind of that vibe of like
29:06
Speaker 1: both laziness or like not caring but also trying to
29:10
Speaker 1: prove oh but I'm an ally when you're really the
29:14
Speaker 1: opposite doing the opposite thing.
29:17
Speaker 2: The same thing is again the prayer thing, like we
29:20
Speaker 2: really are telling them there's something. You're telling them there's
29:23
Speaker 2: something wrong with you. Like that's that's such a judgmental level.
29:27
Speaker 2: Feel like, first of all, we all we all know
29:30
Speaker 2: how we feel about this type of religion anyway. But
29:34
Speaker 2: the audacity to do that as well as people who
29:37
Speaker 2: have the impoliteness, I guess, the again the able ism
29:44
Speaker 2: to think that you have the right to speak on
29:46
Speaker 2: someone else's disability once again, whether it's to ask tons
29:49
Speaker 2: of questions that are not your business or be like, oh,
29:53
Speaker 2: I'm trying to do the whole I relate. I once
29:56
Speaker 2: once upon a time I stubbed my toe type of thing.
29:58
Speaker 2: Type of conversation you're like, this is this is odd,
30:03
Speaker 2: like in order to like to be like, oh, I'm
30:06
Speaker 2: I'm I understand you type of thinking, like that's not empathy,
30:10
Speaker 2: that's that's odd. But as well as like the people
30:13
Speaker 2: who are like, yeah, but I'm sure you'll be fixed soon.
30:15
Speaker 2: I know God, God has plans to do this for you.
30:18
Speaker 2: As if again that like over patronizing of like pity
30:24
Speaker 2: and sympathy when no one asks for that, and again
30:28
Speaker 2: a lot of like the bigger conversation, it's like no,
30:30
Speaker 2: you know you what you really need to be pity
30:32
Speaker 2: about is calling your congressman and telling them this is
30:35
Speaker 2: like I need medicaid without loss of this and having
30:39
Speaker 2: a job or having an earning and all these things
30:41
Speaker 2: like this is the wrong way to go. You are
30:46
Speaker 2: not looking at what the big problem could be and
30:48
Speaker 2: solving for me the person who is disabled, or for
30:52
Speaker 2: a disabled person. So it's such just a whole thing
30:55
Speaker 2: mm hmm.
30:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's really the truth of it.
31:00
Speaker 1: They don't want to solve the problem in it and
31:02
Speaker 1: they don't want to look at in the eye or
31:06
Speaker 1: admit the truth of yes, we're not helping or supporting people. Right.
31:11
Speaker 1: But also if somebody prays over like if you if
31:15
Speaker 1: you're none of our listeners did this, but if you did,
31:18
Speaker 1: that's something where you're essentially I would feel I'm not
31:22
Speaker 1: saying everyone would feel this way, but then I would
31:24
Speaker 1: feel like you're telling me God made me this way,
31:29
Speaker 1: perhaps because I did something wrong, right, and now I'm
31:33
Speaker 1: I must depend on prayers to fix what's wrong. That's
31:40
Speaker 1: just just a terrible thing to do somebody who's just
31:42
Speaker 1: going about their day. Man.
31:43
Speaker 2: There's also this lettle like, yeah, do you really think
31:45
Speaker 2: you're perfect just because you have this one ability that
31:48
Speaker 2: I don't have? Baby, you need to look at the
31:51
Speaker 2: mirror and start praying for yourself if you really want
31:53
Speaker 2: to fix them.
31:54
Speaker 1: I did. I did appreciate She made that point several times, like,
31:57
Speaker 1: not everybody's the everybody has different abilities so they can
32:01
Speaker 1: do the same thing, right. But yes, she also does
32:04
Speaker 1: have a chapter on media, and I just want to
32:06
Speaker 1: throw in here she was on Sesame Street. You can
32:10
Speaker 1: still find the clip. I found it earlier today. She
32:13
Speaker 1: was on there as a child. But she does get
32:16
Speaker 1: through a lot of the tropes, some of which we discussed.
32:19
Speaker 1: Inspiration porn might relate to what we've just been talking about,
32:23
Speaker 1: this kind of idea of able bodied people making themselves
32:27
Speaker 1: feel better.
32:28
Speaker 2: Right. I think she takes it a one step further,
32:30
Speaker 2: saying pity porn. And we've talked a lot about this,
32:34
Speaker 2: whether it's like, oh, you're so inspirational, this, this is
32:39
Speaker 2: the only thing you have, right, so brave, you're so
32:42
Speaker 2: brave for existing type of conversation. Again, like there's so
32:49
Speaker 2: much to this layers because we talked about that with
32:52
Speaker 2: people like who've gone through a hard life and as
32:55
Speaker 2: a queer person, as a person of color, so like
32:59
Speaker 2: all of these things that they really want the sob
33:01
Speaker 2: story so they can feel good and think that they're
33:04
Speaker 2: saving you, which is again yeah about you, right, and
33:09
Speaker 2: then once again thing yeah they thank god I'm not
33:11
Speaker 2: them type of type of conversation, and you're like, I'm
33:15
Speaker 2: so grateful. I have so much to be thankful for.
33:17
Speaker 2: When you look at that's such a like connoissance. That
33:20
Speaker 2: does make me want to punch somebody.
33:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's just And we didn't go into it,
33:27
Speaker 1: but again go read the book. But in the Ableism
33:29
Speaker 1: chapter that quote that we included, she was talking about how,
33:35
Speaker 1: you know, we don't talk about it, but that is
33:39
Speaker 1: every day, every time I go outside, every time I
33:41
Speaker 1: interact with somebody, like it's just there, and how exhausting
33:47
Speaker 1: that is when she is living a very fulfilling life, right,
33:52
Speaker 1: but she has this thing right where people see her
33:55
Speaker 1: and just have to call it out right, I don't
33:59
Speaker 1: believe are yeah, Oh my goodness. So the final chapter
34:07
Speaker 1: is about ally ship and we've already talked about some
34:09
Speaker 1: of this, but she's really big on you know, when
34:13
Speaker 1: in Dell ask politely whatever it is. She even has
34:17
Speaker 1: a whole thing about like some people prefer if you're
34:20
Speaker 1: in a wheelchair, they prefer the person to kind of
34:22
Speaker 1: kneel down to their level, and some people prefer that
34:24
Speaker 1: you don't right, So like when in doubt ask politely,
34:28
Speaker 1: it is the person in questions decision, but it's all
34:31
Speaker 1: about respect. So many of these things I was like,
34:34
Speaker 1: I'm not dismissing any of this at all, but so
34:36
Speaker 1: many of the things were the stories of the bad actors.
34:39
Speaker 1: I was like, do you not know how to treat
34:40
Speaker 1: people right? People right? Don't do that right?
34:45
Speaker 2: And then then again, like the asking part, there is
34:47
Speaker 2: that part of like, no, but I'm not sure, so
34:49
Speaker 2: I don't know how to handle this. It shouldn't discourage
34:52
Speaker 2: you from getting to know people and getting to know
34:55
Speaker 2: anybody who might have a disability. So in that conversation.
34:58
Speaker 2: She's I think she talked about she doesn't love people
35:00
Speaker 2: crouching necessarily unless she knows them. She would rather use
35:03
Speaker 2: stand from a distance so that she can have the
35:06
Speaker 2: conversation without creating her neck or any of that.
35:08
Speaker 1: Such.
35:09
Speaker 2: She's talked about people with like being deaf and how
35:12
Speaker 2: they communicate and making sure we understand not to take
35:16
Speaker 2: things or to like block things, just being really like
35:19
Speaker 2: conscientious on how we communicate with that. But again she
35:22
Speaker 2: understands that this can be difficult for people who may
35:25
Speaker 2: not have interacted with different people of different abilities again
35:29
Speaker 2: or disability, so all of those things, like it is,
35:32
Speaker 2: it can be confusing in some of the ways. So
35:35
Speaker 2: we talked. She talks about people who are nonverbal having
35:37
Speaker 2: like the writing pads and all of that. So it
35:39
Speaker 2: is interesting in that she does take to account that
35:44
Speaker 2: different people can have For my own, you know, our
35:48
Speaker 2: own invisible disability, which is the anxiety that skyrockets that
35:51
Speaker 2: makes me shut down, like what do we do? How
35:55
Speaker 2: do we do this without having a full panic attack
35:57
Speaker 2: about it, like having that understanding race, Yeah, this could
36:03
Speaker 2: be is it is for some people, it can be
36:07
Speaker 2: a little bit hard to navigate. Maybe because of their again,
36:10
Speaker 2: their own disabilities and having to work through that as well.
36:16
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and it ends on a very she has
36:19
Speaker 1: a whole section on disability etiquette, but it does end
36:22
Speaker 1: on a you know, we're all learning. This is an
36:25
Speaker 1: ongoing process, keep learning, which I think is a great message.
36:30
Speaker 1: So here is a final quote. This means that the
36:33
Speaker 1: first step to being an ally is unlearning this misconception
36:37
Speaker 1: and recognizing that disabled people aren't in need of saving.
36:40
Speaker 1: We're in need of a world that recognizes our rights
36:42
Speaker 1: and our humanity without question yep. Yeah, m hmm. It's
36:49
Speaker 1: it's a really good book. Really really recommend it. Uh,
36:54
Speaker 1: It's it's very dense, it's very informative, but it's short.
36:58
Speaker 1: You get a lot, you learn a lot out of
37:00
Speaker 1: those pages. So yes, go check it out. Listeners, if
37:05
Speaker 1: you have any recommendations for other books that we should do,
37:10
Speaker 1: you can email us at Hello at stuff Wenever Told
37:13
Speaker 1: You dot com. You can find us on blue Sky
37:15
Speaker 1: at molsto a podcasts, or on Instagram and TikTok at
37:17
Speaker 1: stuff I Never Told You cross on YouTube, and we
37:20
Speaker 1: have a book you can get wherever you get your books.
37:22
Speaker 1: Thanks as always too, our super produce sixteen at Our
37:24
Speaker 1: Exceptive produced Maya and a contributor Joey. Thank you and
37:28
Speaker 1: thanks you for listening stuff I never told you to
37:29
Speaker 1: pook show my Heart Radio for more podcast or my
37:31
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. You can check out the Heart Radio, Apple podcasts,
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