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PROSECUTOR'S DEAL WITH THE DEVIL, CRIES IN COURT: KOHBERGER GUILTY · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: The prosecutor strikes a deal with the devil, then breaks
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: down and cries in court. He should be crying. Coburger.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Brian Coburger kills three murders, savages four beautiful Idaho University
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: students virtually in their sleep, takes a plea deal to
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: save his own skin? Why was that allowed? Good evening,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. I want to
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: thank you for being with us.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Of the emergency.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: You don't know what the emergency one one. I don't
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: know you're like me, But every time I hear that
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: nine one one call of the survivors desperately seeking help,
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: four of their friends, their roommates, massacred, butchered in their sleep.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: How in the world did Brian Koberger escape trial in
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: the last hours? That deal with the devil goes down
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: in open court. But I want you to see the
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: prosecutor choking on his own words, breaking down, crying in court.
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: Watch On November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, excuse me, miss
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: Coberger entered the residents of eleven twenty two King Road
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: in Moscow, Idaho. He did that with the intent to kill.
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: We will not represent that he intended to commit all
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: of the murders that he did that night, but we
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: know that that is what resulted, and that he then
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: killed intentionally, willfully, deliberately, with premeditation and with mouse forethought.
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: Maddy Mogen Kate, we consolfics, Ethan Chapin and that credal.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Thank you really save it, your tears me nothing. You
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: stood there and you took the deal over the objections
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: of some victims' families, and I agree with them. At
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: first I thought it wouldn't happen. I thought maybe the
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: media was wrong. Reports could be wrong, couldn't they But
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: then it went down in the last hours in a
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: court of law. It's done. It's over. Brian Cooberger will
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: never face the death penalty. He won't even face trial.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: The victims' families will never have answers Straight out to
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensicks, Jacksonville State University, author of
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, didn't intend to kill
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: the victims. What didn't he go in the home with
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: a k bar knife? I don't know, Joe Scott, do
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: you go into other people's homes carrying a military style
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: k bar knife. I don't why did he? Do you
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: sneak in and break and adore Joe Scott? Do you
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: sneak around at three or four o'clock in the morning
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: trying not to wake them up so you can have
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: the element of surprise on your victims? Any of that?
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Do you dress in an outfit that you can shed
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: the moment you get out of the home like this,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: so you leave nothing behind? Do you wear a face
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: mask in gloves when you encounter the residents of the home? No,
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: this was his intent. Under the law, there are two
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: types of intent. Those types of intent evidence are implied
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: and explicit. Explicit intent is when I say something like
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: just got Morgan, I'm going to kill you, and then
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: I shoot you dead. That's explicit. Implicit is intent manifested
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: by your actions, such as every action conducted by Brian
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Coburger didn't intend Just got Morgan? Explain how wrong that is?
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: No wonder the prosecutor was crying.
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah. The only time I've ever carried a military knife
• 4:41
  Speaker 5: anywhere was when I was in the army, and I
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: don't ever really remember uncheathing at all all those years ago.
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: I had it as part of my equipment, and no,
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: I would not dress like this unless I had specific
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: intent to do great bodily harm and bring an instant nancy.
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: I've talked about this before, an instrument of death with me.
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: That's what the k bar is made for. And then
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: you purpose yourself. And the only way I can really
• 5:10
  Speaker 5: think of this nancy is through my eyes and experience
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: as a forensic scientist and crime sending investigator death in investigator,
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: is that I'm trying to create barriers, layers between myself
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: and the environment in which I'm in. I always go
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: back to the godfather of forensics, and that is Edmund Lecarte.
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: Every contact leaves a trace, it's for cards extreme exchange principle.
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: I think he's probably been exposed to that, at least peripherally.
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: He understands that construct and so based upon that, he's
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: trying to keep himself from shedding any kind of evidence
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  Speaker 5: that might fall from him, hair, skin, any fibers off
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: of his clothing he would commonly wear. And then you
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: take I don't know, maybe I don't know, let's just
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: say a Dicky's jumpsuit. Where have I heard that before?
• 6:01
  Speaker 5: And you pursue yourself in this and then you could
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: take it off after its bloodship soak Nancy.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Didn't intend, then why did he go into the hum? Hey?
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: You know what, I just want to watch the prosecutor
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: choking up again in court and crying.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: As he.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: Choked down the words accepting a guilty plea over the
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: objections of some of the victims' families, who go on
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: to call the prosecutor a gutless coward who saved a
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: killer's life. Let's watch this again.
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: On November thirteenth, twenty twenty two. Excuse me, miss Coberger
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: entered the residents of eleven twenty two King Road in Moscow, Idaho.
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: He did that with the intent to kill. We will
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: not represent that he intended to commit all of the
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: murders that he did that night, but we know that
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: that is what results, and that he then killed intentionally, willfully, deliberately,
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: with premeditation and with mouse forethought. Manny Mogen Cake. We
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: consult us, Ethan Chapin and Satak.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Thank you joining us now. Investigative reporter chaef us reporter
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: for Dailymail dot Com. Harmania Rodriguez, Harmonia. What happened in court?
• 7:28
  Speaker 6: This all really went down very quickly, as you mentioned
• 7:31
  Speaker 6: half of the victims' families disapproved strongly of this deal,
• 7:36
  Speaker 6: and they said so before yesterday when it all took
• 7:40
  Speaker 6: place in court, we saw an ice cold Brian Cooberger
• 7:44
  Speaker 6: get up, swear that he was going to tell the
• 7:46
  Speaker 6: truth and really simply replying yes. As the judge went
• 7:51
  Speaker 6: through the plea deal. As you mentioned, he said the
• 7:55
  Speaker 6: prosecution said they couldn't be sure how many people he
• 7:59
  Speaker 6: intended to kill, but in his plea deal, Brian Coberger
• 8:03
  Speaker 6: said he killed these four young people, he meant to
• 8:07
  Speaker 6: do so, and he is accepting responsibility for it. However, Nancy,
• 8:11
  Speaker 6: one of the tragic things about this plea deal is
• 8:13
  Speaker 6: that it did not require Coburger to tell the world
• 8:16
  Speaker 6: what really happened, and that was one of the issues
• 8:20
  Speaker 6: that some of the families have with it.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Exactly what happened is that Brian Coberger plaed guilty, escaping
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: the death penalty. Hermione Rodriguez joining us dalemail dot com.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: What were the terms of the deal.
• 8:34
  Speaker 6: Basically, the defense just wanted to spare Coberger's life. We've
• 8:38
  Speaker 6: seen them try everything so in exchange for him pleading
• 8:41
  Speaker 6: guilty to these four murders with no details he now
• 8:46
  Speaker 6: gets to spend the rest of his life in prison
• 8:49
  Speaker 6: for life sentences at a maximum security prison. He doesn't
• 8:52
  Speaker 6: get to appeal his sentence. However, he gets to live
• 8:56
  Speaker 6: the rest of his life in this prison as the
• 8:59
  Speaker 6: Famili's meant. He gets to build relationships, he gets to
• 9:02
  Speaker 6: read books, and he will not face the death penalty.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Joining me is Chris McDonough, director of the Cold Case Foundation,
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: former homicide detective, intimately familiar with this case, has been
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: to the scene multiple times, over three hundred homicides under
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: his belt. You can find him now on the interview
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: room on YouTube. Chris McDonough, Really, what did that buy me? Nothing?
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: Every case gets appealed. Every case, every conviction, every felamy
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: conviction gets appealed. Done check. So to say oh, we
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: did it to avoid an appeal, that's let me just say,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: legal term crap, because you know every case that is
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: a conviction appealed. If they cannot afford a new appellant attorney,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: the state will give them an appellant attorney for free.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: So it's no skin off the state's back for the
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: to say, oh, now there's no chance of appeal that
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: bought me nothing. So what do you make of what
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: the prosecutor did? And I'm sick of looking at him
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: crying in court. Save the tears. The people that are
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: crying are the victims' families. So you know what, suck
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: it up, man, Go ahead me, Donna.
• 10:32
  Speaker 7: You know what, Nancy, you are one thousand percent right
• 10:34
  Speaker 7: once again, this case has been driven by emotional mitigation
• 10:40
  Speaker 7: for the horror of these events. And I have information
• 10:44
  Speaker 7: that they met with the AG's office, and the AG's office,
• 10:49
  Speaker 7: you know, did not invite the families to the table.
• 10:52
  Speaker 7: They sent that email out with an attachment letter. And
• 10:55
  Speaker 7: then the discussion was there was half of the victims
• 11:00
  Speaker 7: families that wanted the deal and have did not. But
• 11:04
  Speaker 7: the age leaned towards the cost of the trial. Up
• 11:08
  Speaker 7: to fifteen million dollars was the projection, and so they
• 11:12
  Speaker 7: went with the state and they left the victims out
• 11:16
  Speaker 7: to try and part of that deal would be he
• 11:19
  Speaker 7: would have to write out you know, exactly what he did,
• 11:22
  Speaker 7: but that information's not available yet and sold.
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  Speaker 2: Chris McDonough, please stop, are you saying, yep? That part
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  Speaker 2: of the deal it was a deal for the defendant,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: not for the state or the victims' families. Was that
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  Speaker 2: Brian Coburger right out what he did? In other words,
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  Speaker 2: I committed murder. I committed murder. What write it out
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  Speaker 2: five hundred times and it's all over? Are you serious
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  Speaker 2: that I'm going to believe what Ja Coburger says. That
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  Speaker 2: was the deal. That's what I got out of this.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, that's my understanding as well. Nancy. It's horrible. I mean,
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  Speaker 7: you know, you know more than anybody, how many times
• 12:03
  Speaker 7: would the guys like me come to you and present
• 12:06
  Speaker 7: a death penalty case and you guys have an ethical
• 12:10
  Speaker 7: responsibility to file a death penalty enhancement with the idea though,
• 12:15
  Speaker 7: that you're not going to extract the plea? Hey, in
• 12:19
  Speaker 7: this case, did this da go into this whole thing
• 12:23
  Speaker 7: knowing he was going to extract the plea all along?
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  Speaker 7: If so, I just find that's disturbing as well. If
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  Speaker 7: that's the case.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, the reality is that you expect straight out
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: to Andy Kahn joining me, direct to victim Services and
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: advocacy crime Stoppers Houston, Texas. They don't play I mean, really, Andy,
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: out of this. I gave up a jury trial, right
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: the state, not me? The state gave up a jury trial,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: gave up ever giving the family answers about what really happened.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: They'll never know. You know, Andy Cohn, in my fiance's case,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: he was murdered, as you know, shortly before our wedding.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: I know what happened. There was a trial. I know
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: what happened. He had a summer job on a construction crew.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: He was out in a remote rural area building I
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: think an office building with the crew. He left it
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: lunchtime to go get soft drinks for everybody else. He
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: comes back in and an angry employee that had just
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: been fired sees the company truck and opens fire on
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: Keith and shoots him five times in the neck, the face,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: and the back, and he died. That's what happened. Okay,
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: it's been twisted around in the MUNI that's what happened.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: How do I know that because there was a trial
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: and they gave all that away so we could get
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: a I did it. I did it. I did it.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: I did it five pages right, one hundred times and
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: free from Brian Toberger like he's going to tell the truth.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: Con I'll tell you, Nancy, I serve on the board
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: of Parents and murdered children and surviving family members of homicide.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: I've been with them for over thirty years. This is
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: about the ultimate sucker punch that I've seen in my
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: over thirty years. What's changed in three years. Nothing. The
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: defense ran out of options. The decision was made three
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: years ago to seek death. Nothing changed up until the
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: time the defense waved their white flag and said we
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: give up, we give up, will cut a deal with that?
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: There's no mitigating factors. Families for the last believe that
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: a trial was imminent, and for you to say the
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: plea deal is in the best interests of everybody. Get real.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: To quote someone I know very well that I'm talking
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: to right now, that's a bunch of bs, and I
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: have a really big problem with the way this was
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: handled the plead. Are you sending a form letter that's
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: really cold, that is about unemotional announcing your decision. Victims'
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: families deserve to be treated with respect and dignity, and
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: they deserved better from this prosecution. That death penalty in
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: this country is so very rarely sought to begin with,
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: and for those that are truly worthy of the ultimate punishment.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: Brian Coburger is at the top of the list right there.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: Why even have a death penalty if.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: You're not I mean, you know, That's what I was
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: just about to ask you, Andy Cohn, because and I'm
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: not debating death penalty, no death penalty. We have the
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: death penalty. So if you've committed to having the death penalty,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: is there a better case than murdering for innocent, unarmed
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: University Idaho students asleep or sleepy in their beds of
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: stock them identifying them, and you, the PERV who have
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: been googling and searching raping women who are asleep, passed out, comatose.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: You fulfill your fantasy and you murder four people, one
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: of them running down the stairs trying to get away
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: from you. You chase her down and murder her. So,
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: if we're going to have the death penalty, what is
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: that not the poster case for the DP?
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: Why have the death penalty if you're not going to
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: have it for Coburger? Basically, the state of Idaho is
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: basically abdicated to death penalty for any future cases if
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: you're not going to do it for Brian Coberger. When
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: you take four lives, especially in the manner that he did,
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: this is the only possible outcome. The families now get
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: zero answers, They get nothing out of this, and basically
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: you're allowing him to call the shots. The evidence was
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: so clear and convincing. He slaughtered four young college students.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: He deprived one, two, three, four people of their lives,
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: and you're not going to deprive him of him. Where's
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: the equity in that.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Or at least offer it to a jury. This heaping
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: pain on the victims' families. Now they have this to
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: carry with them the rest of their lives that the
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: state didn't even try. What are they afraid to try?
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: At Ace? For Pete's sake. That's your job, man, to
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: get in there and do.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: The best you can win or lose.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: To Joseph Scott Morgan again the host of a hit
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: series podcast Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, Joe Scott
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: explained the injuries to the four victims.
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: What we know, Nancy, is that these are a collection
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: of sharp horse injuries. I think people have simply assumed
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: that they're all stab wounds. We know that based upon
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: one of the victims, well actually several of them, that
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: some of these injuries are more than likely in sized
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: wounds which are slices. So you've got a combination of
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: both of these. Either way, you have a mill to
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: blade that is penetrating the skin. Stab wounds the way
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: we delineate them from in sized wounds is that stab
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: wounds are deeper than long, and in sized wounds are
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: longer than deep. So you know, you're a Shakespeare officionado,
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: you know the what is it death by a thousand cuts?
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: That idea applies here as well. It's painful, It would
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: not have gone quickly. This was a very bloody affair,
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: and you know that. I think therein lies a real tragedy, Nancy,
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: because he will not be held to account for this
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: carnage in the sense that we would want him to
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: be held in account. I'm not talking about the death
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: penalty here either. I'm talking about having to hear about
• 19:12
  Speaker 5: this in court and actually what he did so that
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: it burns into his ears, so that you know, you
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: think you're reliving it right now. He's you know, in
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: this kind of fantastic state in his brain. This is
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: not fantastic, this is reality. He will be able to
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: sit there and hear what they have to say. But
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: of course that ain't going to happen. It's never going
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: to happen now because the DA has offered this fleet.
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: Well he has been accepted, and we're left wanting correction.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: And I so rarely get to do this. But dying
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: a thousand deaths is from Shakespeare. Death by a thousand
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: cuts is from Imperial China. But that said, joining me
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: now in addition to Andy Kahn and renowned Joe Scott Morgan,
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: doctor Kendall Crowns is joining US chief medical Examiner Terran County.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: That's Fort Worth never lack a business in their morgue.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: And he is a star of a new podcast set
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: to launch, Mayhem in the Morgue. He is an esteemed
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: lecturer at the Burnette School of Medicine and is joining
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: us now Doctor Kendall Crowns. Following up on what Joe
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Scott Morgan just told us, what actually caused the deaths
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: of the four students? What did their lungs fill up
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: with blood and they asphyxiated? Did their heart get slashed?
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, how does a knife attack like that end
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: up actually killing you as opposed to being wounds that
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: could be repaired in the ear, so.
• 20:52
  Speaker 8: In stab wounds and in size wounds, you basically die
• 20:56
  Speaker 8: from blood loss. They're going to be bleeding from all
• 20:59
  Speaker 8: these wounds, bleeding out onto the bed or the surface
• 21:04
  Speaker 8: around them, and also they'll be bleeding internally, so their
• 21:08
  Speaker 8: chest cavity will fill up with blood and it'll make
• 21:10
  Speaker 8: it hard for their lungs to expand, which will cause
• 21:13
  Speaker 8: them to basically suffocate in their own blood. If the
• 21:16
  Speaker 8: heart is hit, the heart can actually bleed into the
• 21:19
  Speaker 8: sack surrounding the heart, which is called the paracardial sack,
• 21:22
  Speaker 8: and that fills up with blood. It makes it hard
• 21:24
  Speaker 8: for the heart to beat, and you die from heart
• 21:27
  Speaker 8: failure that way. And then also if there is compromise
• 21:31
  Speaker 8: where the lungs are stabbed and then it communicates with
• 21:34
  Speaker 8: the airway, you can be coughing up blood and then
• 21:37
  Speaker 8: reswallowing the blood and inhaling the blood and dying that way.
• 21:42
  Speaker 8: So it's a combination of the blood loss with the
• 21:45
  Speaker 8: possible asshixiation from blood filling the chest cavity, or heart
• 21:49
  Speaker 8: failure from blood filling the pericardial sack or compromising the heartbeat.
• 21:55
  Speaker 8: It's any number of things, but it's essentially blood loss.
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: Tell me exactly what's going on one of the roommates
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: has passed and she's strong class.
• 22:07
  Speaker 8: Oh and they tell some man in their health close.
• 22:12
  Speaker 9: In Moscow, Idaho, with the intent to commit the felony
• 22:14
  Speaker 9: crime of murder. Yes, did you on November thirteenth, twenty
• 22:22
  Speaker 9: twenty two, in Leayta County, State of Idaho, kill and
• 22:29
  Speaker 9: murder Madison Mogan, a human being?
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 22:33
  Speaker 9: And did you do that willfully and lawfully, deliberately and
• 22:35
  Speaker 9: with premeditation and meliss a forethought?
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: Yes?
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, So the state does a deal with the devil,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: the devil being Brian Coburger in this scenario, and for
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: what to get Brian Coberger's version of what happened that night.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: There have been a lot of attacks online and call
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: bombing the judge in this case. The judge cannot force
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: the state to go forward with the death penalty. The
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: judge cannot force the state to go forward on any prosecution.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: The judge can forward a lack of prosecution to the
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: state's age to review what's happening within the District Attorney's office,
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: But the judge can't make the state do anything. The
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: state can't make the judge do anything. It's a balance
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: of power so everybody call bombing and emailing the judge.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: So just follow this through. Let me bring in Philip Debay, guys,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: our renowned attorney in the LA jurisdiction. Debay, Under our law,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: the judge is immune from being forced by the state
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: or the defense to really do anything. For instance, if
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: the judge had rejected the plea and said, hey, I
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: want the death penalty to Hay with this, the state
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: could have actually just gotten another judge to take the plea.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: The state cannot force the judge cannot force the state
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: to seek the death penalty. It doesn't work that way.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Could you explain it, Philip Debate.
• 24:24
  Speaker 10: Yes, we have what's called the separation of powers, both
• 24:27
  Speaker 10: at the state and the federal level, and what that
• 24:29
  Speaker 10: means is we have three coordinate branches of government. We
• 24:33
  Speaker 10: have the executive branch, which is basically the governor, the
• 24:36
  Speaker 10: attorney general, and prosecutors. And of course we have the
• 24:39
  Speaker 10: legislative branch, which at the federal level is Congress. At
• 24:42
  Speaker 10: the state level we have the legislature, and certainly at
• 24:45
  Speaker 10: the local level you have your city council. Additionally, we
• 24:49
  Speaker 10: have the judiciary, which is our courts, and to ensure
• 24:53
  Speaker 10: that we have this fair balance of power, neither branch
• 24:57
  Speaker 10: can encroach upon the powers of either wise you get
• 25:00
  Speaker 10: anarchy and you get an unjust system. And here what
• 25:05
  Speaker 10: you have is prosecutors within the executive branch alerting the
• 25:10
  Speaker 10: judiciary that a settlement has been reached. Yes, the court
• 25:14
  Speaker 10: can reject that settlement agreement, but the prosecution doesn't have
• 25:18
  Speaker 10: to go forward with penalty. The prosecution can just go
• 25:21
  Speaker 10: forward with the guilt phase. And if they would have
• 25:23
  Speaker 10: commit the jury would have come back guilty on all
• 25:25
  Speaker 10: four homicides, then Brian Coolberger would have got what we
• 25:30
  Speaker 10: affectionately call LWOP life without parole. So it was a
• 25:34
  Speaker 10: lose lose for the court, and sadly it is a
• 25:37
  Speaker 10: lose lose for the victims' families. On the brighter side
• 25:41
  Speaker 10: of things, though the case is over, he will never
• 25:44
  Speaker 10: get out. There will be no appeals. They will never
• 25:47
  Speaker 10: ever be able to decide whether or not the denial
• 25:50
  Speaker 10: of this motion was accurate, whether or not the Atkins
• 25:55
  Speaker 10: denial was accurate regarding.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: His I don't know that. You don't know any of that. Well,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: remember when Charles Manson, remember him psycho freaky killer. Yes,
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: remember that the Manson murders. There's been a lot of
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: movies about it. Yes, Charles Manson got the death penalty,
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: didn't he didn't he get the death penalty? That's a yes, yes, okay.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: He got sentenced to the death penalty. And what happened
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: The law changed? The law changed, right, yes, and suddenly
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: the death penalty was gone, and he came up over
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: and over and over to be released on parole. Can
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: you just agree to that much? Debate? I know you'll
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: want to fight with me, but isn't that much true?
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: Yes, it is true?
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, straight to Andy Kahn joining US Director of Victim
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Services and Advocacy for Crime Stoppers Houston. Andy Kahn, remember
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: that moment when all the laws were reversed and Charles
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Manson got life? The law was changed. Now, I understand
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: what debate is saying, and I agree with him, believe
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: it or not, to a certain extent. But we don't
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: know what wild hair is going to get up the
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: rear ends of the Idaho Assembly, do we or the
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: federal government. We don't know what's going to happen. But
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: I do know if Coburger is put to death, that
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: cannot be reversed. You know, who's to say or who's
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: not to say that in ten years somebody would rule.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: I know it sounds crazy that life behind bars is
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: cruel and unusual. It's already been argued thousands of times
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: that that's cruel and unusual punishment, life behind bars without parole,
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: it's already been argued. Who's to say some crazy judge
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: doesn't go along with it and he walks. No one
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: is to say that.
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: We've seen this time and time again, and I tell
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: victims families, look, here's reality. Life without parole today doesn't
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: necessarily mean it's going to be life without parole ten
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: twenty years from now. And we've seen this repeated over
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: and over again. The other thing that we are now
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: seeing right now is so called elderly mercy release, and
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: particularly in the state of New York, where they're looking
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: at everyone from the ages of fifty five and over
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: for potential parole, including a serial killer by the name
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: of David Berkowitz. So again, it sounds good on the premise,
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: life without parole. You're never going to breathe free air again.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: That's it. You don't have to worry about this appeal.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: That appeal.
• 28:37
  Speaker 7: But I have seen it.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: You have seen it. Things change, jurisdictions changed, and this
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: is why you're going to have to keep a close
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: abs on this, you know right now today. The bottom
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: line from my perspective in this case is you let
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: a cold blood and murderer win. You allowed him to
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: call the shots, You allowed him to dictate his own terms,
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: including I don't have to say any thing except for
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: one word. Yes. That's going to come back and haunt
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: the state of Idaho, and it's going to come back
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: and haunt victims' families for years down a road debate.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: I know that you're a great trial lawyer. I know
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: you in a lot of cases for criminals to walk free.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: I can't stop that. I know you've got a great
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: singing voice since he burst out into song at Christmas
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: with Oh Holy Night. I know that, but I didn't
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: know you were a clairvoyant. Please go get your crystal
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: ball and your turban, because I want to see you
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: predict that the law won't change regarding life with that
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: parole or mercy for the elderly and Coburger never walks free.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Okay waiting, Oh, are you going to read the tea leaves?
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Would that work? Better for you. It'll never check tarot cards.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: Never mind tarot cards, go ahead.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: It'll never change in the state of Idaho.
• 29:54
  Speaker 10: It might if you were a youthful offender at the
• 29:57
  Speaker 10: time of the crime, but he was, what a ripe
• 30:00
  Speaker 10: twenty nine years old, so it's not as if he
• 30:03
  Speaker 10: was deprived of.
• 30:05
  Speaker 11: A review of all the youthful factors.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: So you are a clairvoyant pretty much.
• 30:10
  Speaker 10: And it's based on statistics. It's based on what's going
• 30:13
  Speaker 10: on across the country.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: You and Scott Peterson. You and Scott Peterson. Oh yeah,
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: O J. Simpson and his dream sequence that he really
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: killed Nicole Brown. I didn't need his dream to tell
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: me that. So you are of sorts of clairvoyant. Con
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: I'm giving you the last word on that.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: We're seeing it right now, at least in several states
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: where they're taking a look at anyone from the ages
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: of fifty five or older, no matter what the actual
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: sentence is, for potential senior reliefs based upon the age factor.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: So what's happening. You can't say unequivocally that life without
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: parole for Coleberger means he will never get out, because
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: we're watching it right now and.
• 30:57
  Speaker 11: A greatment of the He only negotiated with you before.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: I was the old person not to negotiating.
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: He didn't give us a cooloder, seated.
• 31:05
  Speaker 11: To negotiate with us, even pretend he could have just
• 31:08
  Speaker 11: descended in light. But he didn't even pretend. He basically said,
• 31:12
  Speaker 11: your guys is input.
• 31:13
  Speaker 12: Is it.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: I'm just not reporting it. I want you to hear
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: from killer Gonsovis's father, who has been very open about
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: the raw pain he has been enduring since his daughter
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: was murdered. Take a listen to mister Gonsal.
• 31:54
  Speaker 11: He's gonna own this. He's gonna inherit what Thompson did,
• 31:57
  Speaker 11: and he's the only one that can fix it. He's
• 31:59
  Speaker 11: the only one who can't make it right. He needs
• 32:02
  Speaker 11: to protect those other surviving victims and make this person
• 32:05
  Speaker 11: say that they had nothing to do with it. He
• 32:07
  Speaker 11: did it solely, He did it all on his own
• 32:09
  Speaker 11: and nobody else was responsible, and then we won't keep
• 32:13
  Speaker 11: having this the supporters always saying that he you know,
• 32:17
  Speaker 11: he got set up, we know what he's planning on doing.
• 32:20
  Speaker 11: Somebody died, if that died, and he's going to try
• 32:23
  Speaker 11: to say that you put the blame on that person,
• 32:25
  Speaker 11: so he's not going to take accountability. And Compson didn't force.
• 32:27
  Speaker 7: Him to take accountability.
• 32:28
  Speaker 11: He didn't even negotiate it.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: According to the Gunslvices and others, none of them were consulted.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: No one had any input. And to the prosecutor who
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: wrote down crying in court when he did it deal
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: with the devil, listen.
• 32:43
  Speaker 11: And agreement, because the he only negotiated with the earner
• 32:47
  Speaker 11: A call you over the court.
• 32:48
  Speaker 5: I was the offen person, not really negotiating. He didn't
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: give us the public aggreciated.
• 32:52
  Speaker 13: To negotiate with us.
• 32:53
  Speaker 11: He even pretend he could have just descended in line,
• 32:56
  Speaker 11: but he didn't even pretend. He basically said, your.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Guys is straight out to Harmonia Rodriguez, the chief US
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: reporter for dailymail dot com, what happens now, Harmonia.
• 33:09
  Speaker 6: Well, we're gonna have still a sensus in hearing where
• 33:12
  Speaker 6: hopefully the victims' families will get a chance to tell
• 33:16
  Speaker 6: Brian Coberger what these horrific crimes have done in their lives.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Coburger should also.
• 33:22
  Speaker 6: Have a chance to say anything if he so chooses,
• 33:25
  Speaker 6: but from what we have seen, he doesn't have much
• 33:28
  Speaker 6: to say. In court he only said yes with no expression,
• 33:32
  Speaker 6: and then finally he will be moved to a maximum
• 33:36
  Speaker 6: security prison for worst of the worst. It's actually where
• 33:39
  Speaker 6: a lot of uh there's also a death row. It's
• 33:41
  Speaker 6: where Chad day Bell, the cult leader or also serial killer,
• 33:46
  Speaker 6: is held and he will be there for his life
• 33:50
  Speaker 6: according to the plea deal. Though I know, as you said,
• 33:53
  Speaker 6: there's a possibility that who knows in the future what
• 33:56
  Speaker 6: could happen, and he could be released the.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Only way he wouldn't be released as if he was
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: put to death. Okay, because we know, Harmonia, the law
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: can change, because it has changed post sentencing in murder cases.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: And the one I gave you Charles Manson is just
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: one example. But two special guests joining us. In addition
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: to Harmonia Rodriguez, doctor Chavon Scott, psychotherapist. She's a best
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: selling author. Her newest release is night Bird. She also
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: wrote The Minds of mass Killers, Understanding and Interrupting the
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Pathways to Violence, Good Luck with That and Game Addiction,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: The Experience and the Effects. Doctor Javon Scott, thank you
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: for being with us. I asked Harmania Rodriguez from dailymail
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: dot com what happens now and she was correct. Well,
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: there's a lot more to that story. This is what happens.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Brian Coburger will do a book deal. The Son of
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Sam laws were reversed by the US Supreme Court. All right.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: People think, oh, they can't profit, Well, in many jurisdictions
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: they can unless the state has enacted its own state
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: claim against it. He'll write a book, there will be
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: a made for TV movie. There will probably be another
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: movie about his side of the story, his memoirs. It
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: will talk about his childhood, how isolated he felt, and
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: so forth and so on. He's going to have penpals
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: behind bars. Women are going to try and have conjugal
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: visits with him. I mean, look at Luigi Mangioni. Right.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: There is a group out there called the Proburgers that
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: support Brian Coburger. They will send him money. He may
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: even get married behind bars like Youord van der Slut.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: He's had I think two children from behind bars. He
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: has drugs, he has alcohol, he has women, he has parties.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: That is what is going to happen now. And I
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: predict this, doctor Schavon Scott, that one day there will
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: be a big symposium, a conference of krim pro criminal
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: procedure students, much like you teach Joe Scott Morgan, and
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: the guest of honor will be zoomed in from the
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: penitentiary and that renowned guest will be Brian Coburger, where
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: he will develop even more groupies. That's what's going to happen. Yeah,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: a perverse celebrity. And when we look at it from
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: the point of view that you just laid.
• 36:39
  Speaker 14: Out for us, he has a far richer life than
• 36:42
  Speaker 14: he ever had free, which is very twisted, but I
• 36:47
  Speaker 14: think you're right. He's now in the ranks of Bundy,
• 36:51
  Speaker 14: one of his idols, and it's sickening. It's absolutely sickening
• 36:57
  Speaker 14: and disturbing. And I can only imagine how the families
• 37:02
  Speaker 14: feel because they were given no sense of control over
• 37:07
  Speaker 14: any of this, which I think is really important for
• 37:10
  Speaker 14: their healing to have a sense of control here.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Why do you say that. I'm very curious because I
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: distinctly remember. I don't know that the prosecutor does, but
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: I remember, and Keith's family remembers. Before my fiance's murder
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: trial ever happened, the prosecutor came and spoke to us
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: about what he thought was the best course of action
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: and how we felt about it and what was our input.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: I was so out of it. I've just, you know,
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: hardly even remember all the words that were said. But
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: I remember the gist of the conversation. I remember what
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: went down. I remember what Keith's parents said, and we did.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: They did have that control to an extent. I mean,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: the family doesn't get to call the witnesses or put
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: up the evidence, but they can steer the ship, right
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: if they want to. You how does control help anything?
• 38:05
  Speaker 14: I think the act of having your loved ones murdered
• 38:09
  Speaker 14: is I mean, we're also protective of our kids, right,
• 38:12
  Speaker 14: It's just we want to have some benign, benevolent control
• 38:17
  Speaker 14: over the way their lives go. We want to protect them,
• 38:20
  Speaker 14: and to have your kids murdered in this kind of way,
• 38:24
  Speaker 14: that psychological need is just ripped away from you. And
• 38:29
  Speaker 14: I think it's just important to feeling some kind of
• 38:33
  Speaker 14: emotional stability again, to feel like, Okay, this horrible thing happened.
• 38:38
  Speaker 14: I'm completely devastated. This has changed my identity forever, change
• 38:42
  Speaker 14: the trajectory of my life. But at least I get
• 38:46
  Speaker 14: this little bit of power over this, you know, search
• 38:51
  Speaker 14: for justice, this attempt to get some kind of justice here.
• 38:55
  Speaker 14: And I think it's a psychological need that most people have.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: Andy Kahn, director of Victim Services in Houston through Crime Stoppers. Andy,
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: what's happened here, if it can even be imagined, is
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: after losing their child to whom they poured in all
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: their love, all their money, all their time, their hopes,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: their dreams. Yeah, I mean, I've got a life, but
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: come on, Andy, you know about my twins. They're my
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: life now, they are my life, No pressure, twins. But
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: to have that ripped away, number one. Then to have
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: it ripped away the way that they were murdered, that
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: they were murdered at all, but then the way that
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: they were murdered, then the way the victims have been
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: dragged through the mud is being partiers and horrors and
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: sluts and blah blah blah. They were out too late,
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: they were drinking. Oh no, that whole thing happened, and
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: now this behind their backs. You heard Gon Solvus, He
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: wasn't consulted.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: What an emotion old roller coaster for all these families.
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: And you let a wanna be budding, Ted Bundy, I'm
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: going to be a serial killer, beats you and that's
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: the reality right there. And you haven't heard the last
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: of Brian Koberger because guess what exactly what you were
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: saying earlier. He is going to talk, but he's going
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: to do it on his own terms. He is going
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: to write his memoirs. For my knowledge right now, I
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: don't see anything in the perspective plea deal preventing him
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: from meeting with journalists, from sending out submissions, from talking
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: about himself. And as someone who's been basically monitoring what
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: we now call murder Abelia, and that's items that are
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: sold from high profile defendants, killers, serial killers on the
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: open market, he's about to become the new Dar.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: A deal goes down in a court of law, a
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: deal with the devil. The prosecutor in the Brian Coburger
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: case actually crying in court, choking on his words, and
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: he should have according to the victims' families. Joining me
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: now special guest doctor Dwayne Hendrix. Doctor Hendrix, former warden
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: at the NBC in Brooklyn that's now Piece of Cake,
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: but also served as warden and Sheridan, Oregon, former senior
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: warden with the US Department of Justice, with the Federal
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Bureau of prisons, founder president of a New Daylight Foundation,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: author of who Are You See It? Say It Sees It?
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: Doctor Dwayne Hendrix, who shot to fame during the Sean
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Combs investigation. Doctor Hendrix, what can you tell me about
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: where Coburger will be housed? Most likely?
• 41:51
  Speaker 12: Yeah, he'll be housed at the Idaho Maximum Security Institution
• 41:56
  Speaker 12: near COONa, Idaho, which is nearly six hours from where
• 41:59
  Speaker 12: he brutally murdered those four beautiful souls.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: It has.
• 42:04
  Speaker 12: The maximum security prison has capacity of five hundred and
• 42:07
  Speaker 12: forty nine inmates, and he'll be one of over one
• 42:11
  Speaker 12: hundred and thirty individuals serving a life sentence without parole.
• 42:15
  Speaker 12: His day to day activities will be very routine and
• 42:19
  Speaker 12: focused on stringent security, as maximum security facilities has the
• 42:23
  Speaker 12: greatest amount of focus on security and restricted movement. And
• 42:28
  Speaker 12: while the Idaho Department Corrections website doesn't clearly explicitly talk
• 42:32
  Speaker 12: about what programming is available to those who are incarcerated there,
• 42:37
  Speaker 12: I would beg to guess that he'll probably be involved
• 42:41
  Speaker 12: in some cognitive behavior therapy as well as mental health treatment.
• 42:48
  Speaker 12: And additionally, he will be able to visit on Thursday, Friday, Saturday,
• 42:52
  Speaker 12: and Sundays, and I was listening to the conversations earlier
• 42:57
  Speaker 12: with the other guests.
• 42:58
  Speaker 5: There is no.
• 42:59
  Speaker 12: Conjugal visits at this particular maximum secuity.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: That's what they all say. And yet women get pregnant,
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: don't they?
• 43:07
  Speaker 12: Yes, they do, and typically that's probably due to a
• 43:10
  Speaker 12: staff member, a volunteer, or someone that's coming or a
• 43:13
  Speaker 12: contractor coming into those institutions.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: That does happen, Hendrix. Doctor Hendrix, you know how I
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: feel about you. But I'm calling objection bs because you
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: know what, I just covered a case where the jail
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: house seems stress. Please remind me of the name of that. Wait,
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: it's all coming to me, Casey White. Wasn't that the
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: defensive Yeah, the jail house seamstress goes in a closet
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: and has affairs sex with a convicted felon. You think
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: that was sanctioned. No, it wasn't. And it all ended
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: at an escape with her helping and a shootout. Thank you,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: thank you.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: It happened.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: It happens all the time where your inmates get women pregnant.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: You do know about the birds and the bees, right,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: doctor Henderson, You do know where babies come from? I
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: think you do don't you.
• 44:09
  Speaker 12: Yes, ma'am, I do. I have four beautiful children.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: We pick them up at Walmart. Hendrix, you didn't pick
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: them up at Walmart. Okay. So women get pregnant by inmates,
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: however you want to claim it happens. It happens. I
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: don't care. If it's an employee, I don't care. If
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: it's a warden, I don't care. If it's a seamstress.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: It happens. They Isn't it true? They get drugs and
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: alcohol and other contraband behind bars that say yes, no, Hendrix, Yes,
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 44:37
  Speaker 12: Everything that happens in the community happens behind those walls
• 44:41
  Speaker 12: in the prison setting. It happens every day, and fortunately
• 44:44
  Speaker 12: there to be more.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, drugs, every alcohol, sex. They get tablets. We saw sadly.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: I hate to bring it up, conjured up for your mind,
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: but I saw Alex on Double Killer in a shirtless selfie.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Why did I have to see that from behind bars?
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: Because he had a tablet? They get movie. Now, you
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: said they have visits and therapy, visits and therapy. Dave
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: mac joining me Crime Story's investigative reporter. What is he saying?
• 45:17
  Speaker 13: What they've got, Nancy is when you get into this
• 45:19
  Speaker 13: maximum security where Coburger is going to be. He's going
• 45:23
  Speaker 13: to have a life, Nancy. That's the saddest part of
• 45:26
  Speaker 13: all of this. He has access to everything that you
• 45:29
  Speaker 13: would pretty much have on the outside.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: He's got his.
• 45:32
  Speaker 13: Own room, he'll have his own private area. He'll have
• 45:36
  Speaker 13: an hour a day to go out and do whatever
• 45:38
  Speaker 13: recreation he chooses to do. He can go to the
• 45:41
  Speaker 13: library and multipurpose room and go outside. He'll have access
• 45:45
  Speaker 13: to his own TV. He'll have his tablet like you
• 45:48
  Speaker 13: were talking about. We've seen that so many times he
• 45:50
  Speaker 13: watched older movies. His vegan diet, Nancy, you know that's
• 45:54
  Speaker 13: something that hasn't been talking about lately.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Well, it will be totally making me choke again. Wait
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: a minute up, Wait, doctor Dwayne Hendrix, did you not
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: hear what Dave mac just said, vegan diet? Yes, you
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: do know they're going to give him special meals, right Hendrix?
• 46:13
  Speaker 12: Yes, if he is not on a flesh diet, if
• 46:15
  Speaker 12: they call it common fare in the prison setting. Uh.
• 46:18
  Speaker 12: And basically he'll he'll get vegetables, fruits, and protein.
• 46:24
  Speaker 5: He'll he'll be on a no flesh diet. That's what
• 46:27
  Speaker 5: we would call it. We didn't call it Beacon, We
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: call it no flesh.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, stop everything, just stop everything, Doctor Kendall Crowns, You,
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: of course, are a renowned medical examiner, the esteemed lecturer
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: at the Burnette School of Medicine. You're the star of
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: a podcast about to launch Mayhem and the Morgue. You've
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: handled mass killings, You've seen what happens to the victims.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: Are you hearing this, Doctor Kendall crown That Brian Coburger
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: is going to get to watch movies, have visitation therapy
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: and special meals prepared for him. As he writes his memoirs, thoughts.
• 47:11
  Speaker 8: Well, it is the unfortunate way that our legal system,
• 47:15
  Speaker 8: in our justice system works in which the murderer and
• 47:19
  Speaker 8: the perpetrator of the violence and the terror on individuals
• 47:24
  Speaker 8: is allowed to then have a very comfortable life in
• 47:28
  Speaker 8: a basically a hotel and given anything and everything they want.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: It is what it is, movie night, special vegan meals, visitations, memoirs.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: That's what Brian Coburger will be doing behind bars while
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: the victims' families not only remember their murdered children, but
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: deal with the pain of being ambushed. According to them,
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: several of them, they had no idea this plea deal
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: was in the works and they oppose it. So doctor
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: Dwayne Hendricks joining us former warden, you didn't tell me
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: about movie night, did you? Or special meals? What happened
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: to that? What's he going to do next week? Have
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: yoga therapy? No? What may be a facial and a massage?
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: Oh wait, a mud bath? What's next for him? Is
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: he going to have a secretary taking down his memoirs?
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: Does he dictates?
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: No?
• 48:28
  Speaker 12: But he might have an inmate that might want to
• 48:31
  Speaker 12: take the notes for him. If a selmate might want
• 48:33
  Speaker 12: to do that. But in terms of just his meals,
• 48:37
  Speaker 12: I mean, if he doesn't want to eat me, he
• 48:39
  Speaker 12: doesn't have to. And the crazy thing out of all
• 48:42
  Speaker 12: of this, most individual serving life sentences. For every year
• 48:47
  Speaker 12: that they're you know, every year they're incarcerated, you can
• 48:50
  Speaker 12: typically take two years off their life. And I hope
• 48:52
  Speaker 12: I'm not speaking out a turn a doc who's the
• 48:55
  Speaker 12: medical examiner, But if this guy is going to be
• 48:58
  Speaker 12: living a somewhe healthy lifestyle, writing books, enjoying himself behind bars,
• 49:06
  Speaker 12: this is another sort of slapping the face to the
• 49:08
  Speaker 12: families who most of them who objected to this plea
• 49:12
  Speaker 12: agreement and not him not having the death penalty.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: We wait as justice unfolds, and now we remember an
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: American hero, Officer Patricio Samaripa, Dallas PD, just thirty two,
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: shot in the line of duty, survived by grieving wife Christy,
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: daughter Lincoln, stepson Dylan. American hero Officer Patricio Samaripa. Nancy
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: gray SONI