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Who's Up For A Circular Economy · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry'll be here eventually, but for now, all
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: you got is Josh and Chuck. But really, what more
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: do you need? Ton of stuff you should know?
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in our world, in about two or three minutes,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Jerry will just come in and go, hey, I'm here, gos, Sorry,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: I'm late.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: I feel like she's learned not to do that. She'll
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: just sit there on mute for a while. Really, yeah,
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: she hasn't done it in a little while. She's really
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: turned over a new leaf. All right, we'll see, we'll see.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: We should leave it in if she does come in, Yeah,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: we should do that. We'll share with everybody.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Except they'll just hear our ends. Although here is oh god, Jerry.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Well, no, I think as she chimes in on riverside,
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: we could edit that into the final all.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Right, edit. This will be a fun test.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: It will be and there's a little peak behind the
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: curtains for everybody of how we do our thing slap dash,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: that's right while making fun and Jerry.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, I just noticed we were not on the
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: list of time magazine's one hundred greatest podcast of all time?
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: What really?
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was funny because I saw that list and
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: my first instinct was, I mean, top one hundred, Like
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: that's a lot, Like, surely we cracked the top one hundred.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: They probably haven't heard of us, is what it is.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Now. We're not on there. Literally all of our old
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: time colleagues, you name it, Radio Lab ninety nine percent invisible,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Ira Maren like every podcast of note of the past
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: eighteen years except for spe Wow.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: That's very stuff you should know, isn't.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: It It is? It is very fitting.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: We don't let that stuff get to us.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: So do we know Time magazine who cares?
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah? And even though they put out a stupid podcast list.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, watch, we're going to be Men of the Year. Now.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: The headline on the cover will be like, oh gosh,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: we forgot.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Well you'll be Man of the Year, but I won't
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: be mentor That's how it would work.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: That's what Time does. They tinker with relationships by dividing.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: That's right. Speaking of tinkering, I think we could all
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: tinker with our worldwide economy a bit and perhaps make
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: it more circular.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: What are you talking about?
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Well, Josh, I'm talking about our topic at hand, mhm,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: talking about circular economy.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: My friend, Oh, I got I didn't get the reference.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: M So have you heard of this before? Uh yeah, okay, yeah,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: I ran across it. As far as I know, it's
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: fairly new from the two thousand aughts. I didn't see
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: that it was an idea that was laying around already
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: in this exact form and then was picked up and promoted.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: So it's possible it was generally created by the Ellen
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: MacArthur Foundation.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Hats off to Ellen MacArthur.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, Ellen MacArthur, as far as I know, still
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: holds the world record for the fastest solo sail trip
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: around the entire world, twenty six thousand miles of circumnavigation
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: circular in seventy two days. Yeah, she loves circles and
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: apparently on her trip. I was reading about it. It
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: sounds just insane. And by the way, whenever I read
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: of like world sailing trips, I can't help but think
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: of one of the best documentaries of all time, Deep
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Water about Donald Crowhurst. I believe you've seen it before.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: I know we've talked about it. Oh, if you haven't
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: seen it, I actually envy you.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Is this the guy h the diver?
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Nope, he's a sailor. There was about like a nineteen
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: seventy five World Sailing competition.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: So he was, mi, is it deep water if he
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: wasn't deep in the.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Water, because he's he's sailing over deep water.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, over DeepArt. They should call it over deep water.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: You sailing over deep water?
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: You should actually all wait, but let's just pause recording
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: and go watch it. Is that good?
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I'll look into that. I've been on a documentary kick lately,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: so I'll I'm ripe.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: This is time. Would put this one on their top
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: one hundred documentaries of all time probably, so yeah. So
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: while she was sailing around the world, she just started.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: She had, I guess, a lot of time to think
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: and saw a lot of waste and junk and terrible
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: stuff and realize that there's a better way. And a
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: lot of people have thought like, Okay, there's a better
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: way to do this. There has to be. And what
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: she promotes, what she's kind of come up with is
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: this idea of a circular economy. In a very short
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: back of the envelope sketch of it, the outputs, the
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: waste of the economy get reused as inputs as basically
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: turned into aw materials, and people say, oh, recycling, that's
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: a big part of it. But as far as the
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: circular economy is concerned, we idealize recycling like we're like,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: that's the best you can do. They're like, that's actually
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: the least desirable out of all of them. There's a
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: bunch of other stuff we can do instead. So circular economy.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it sort of aligns with the whole reduce, reuse,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: recycle ethos. I think we could best explain it by
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: maybe starting with what we generally have now, which is
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: linearar economy. And that's who helped us with this. Dave.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Dave helped us.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's smacks of Dave, but Dave calls it and
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Dave didn't invent this term. But it's a take make
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: waste economy system where you take resources and you know whatever,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: like cotton or any kind of raw material, you make
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: something into that to a product to sell to people,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: and then that thing maybe generally quickly wears out and
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: you throw it away and it goes into a landfill.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: It's very I mean, it's kind of the worst possible
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: scenario you could ask for if you care about planet
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Earth and people in the world and animals in nature.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: And it's linear because it goes in one way. You
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: have something, you make something, and then that thing wears
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: out and you throw it in the landfill.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you take the cotton that you grow, you make
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: it into a car. You drive the car into a
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: landfill and jump out right before it goes over the cliff.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: That's what everybody does.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: So you left out, kick back and watch the money
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: roll in, because that's ultimately what the biggest challenge to
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: implementing a circular economy is. One of the biggest ones
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: is that the linear economy that we have set up
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: that's been around since the Industrial Revolution is a money
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: making machine. And it's easy to criticize when you sit
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: there and look at all of the terrible waste and
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: pollution and inequality that's been generated from it. You can
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: also say, yeah, this wealth has funded a lot of science,
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: it's improved a lot of living conditions. Even the poorest
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: people in America are living high on the hog compared
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: to the poorest people in other nations, like the wealthy
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: nations have really done well for themselves with the linear economy,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: and again that's a big reason why there's a lot
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: of reticence to transition to something different.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, there are some you know, notable I'm
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: trying to think of a term we could come up
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: with that labels instead of a gold star, like an
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: industry that gets the opposite of that, like a turd
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: pin or something that.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: You wear that worn't so much tird. But yes, that
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: would work very well.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Do you know what makes turd worse is that it's
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: spelled t rd.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, that definitely does make it worse. Everything about that
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: word is so bad.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, totally. So the four sectors that are sort
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: of the worst are food, electronics, consumer goods, and construction.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Food obviously, and we're going to get into these, you know,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: more specifically as we go on, but generally speaking, food
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  Speaker 1: is a pretty terrible sector. And we've talked about food
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  Speaker 1: waste before, but it's not just the food waste that's
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: like tossed by grocery store and restaurants and stuff like that,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: but it's also you know a lot of places still
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  Speaker 1: are just using those single use bags and people are like, sure,
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  Speaker 1: double back it triple back it. I don't want my
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: tube of two face to fall through that thing into
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: the parking lot, and then all the packaging that goes
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: into it. And we've you know again, we've covered all
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: this stuff in various forms here and there. Unsustainable farming, electronics.
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  Speaker 1: Don't even get me started on electronics. Recycling and electronics
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  Speaker 1: that are basically impossible to repair or get repaired.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Well, they're designed that way. If we did an entire
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: episode on that planned obsolescence.
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  Speaker 1: And nothing gets me more mad. Almost.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when a company purposefully designs a product to break
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: in a short amount of time, like they'll put some
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: sort of sensor or electrical component next to something that
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: generates a lot of heat so that it degrades faster,
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  Speaker 2: Like it's designed to break for you to throw away
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: and then go buy another one. That's a big problem. Yeah,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: like you said with electronics, But clothing is another one too.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: It's designed to just be worn. You buy it cheaply,
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: you wear it for a little bit, you throw it away,
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: and we'll, like you said, we'll talk more about this
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  Speaker 2: stuff later. But my eyes started popping out when I
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: was reading about clothing.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one for sure. And then construction. A lot
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: of resources used in construction and you know, basically construction
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: materials anytime we've done any sort of like renovation project.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Because you know, we live in like a hundred year
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: old house, so we instead of moving, we kind of
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: stayed and fixed it up over the years, at first
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: by ourselves and then with you know the help of
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: contractors and such. And as you know you've been through
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: stuff like that, it's like when that construction dumpster pulls up,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: we do everything we can. We fight tooth and nail
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: to give stuff away, Like, hey, can you put all
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: these awesome hundred year old bricks out by the sidewalk.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Someone will take them and you know they will acquiesce.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: You know, they hate dealing with us because they just
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: want to throw that stuff in the dumpster. But we've
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: managed to get rid of a you know, we're going
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: through a little thing now. And I had this really
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: awesome screen door and they were literally throwing this really
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: nice screen door. It was like a good one. It
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: wasn't just like a forty dollars screen door.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: It was like a Prada screen door.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: No, this is Gucci, I think, no. But it was
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: like a from like a craftsman company for craftsmen homes.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: It was sort of like an upscale screen door, and
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: they were throwing at the trash and almost tackle the guy.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: And I put that thing out there and it was
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: gone in an hour, you know. And I bet just
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: little things like that make me feel like, oh God,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: I saved one little thing from the landfill.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Nice work man.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Not for a pat on them back, but you know
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: what I mean, It.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Just it's a conservant.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: It just kills our consciences, just burning up when they're
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: throwing away, even old wood and stuff. You know. I
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: try to take that stuff to the camp and burn it.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: You know what I found. When you're dealing with contractors
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: and subcontractors, if you want them to do something, you
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: have to tell them directly, yeah, and a kind of
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: an authoritative voice and then finished also with chop chop.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And also stand there and watch them because as
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: soon as you leave, they'll just say like whatever, dude.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah for sure, yeah for sure. Okay, So you guys
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: out there listening probably have bloody crescent shape fingernail marks
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: on the heel of your palms from hearing all this stuff.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: So just settle down, relax a little bit, because now
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: we're going to tell you a little bit about an
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: alternative to that, the closed loop model, not linear circular,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: the circular economy, and it basically says it takes a
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: look at everything wrong with the linear economy and fixes
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: it one by one. And it's like there's a lot
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: left open. It's not like this is just a like
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: a completely ready to go economic model. It's going to
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: solve every single problem and it's not going to create
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: any other problems. It's more we're at the most conceptual star. Yeah,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: that is being presented to people to say, hey, there's
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: another way, and here are some of the ways we
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: can do it.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's sort of just the opposite of everything
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: we were just saying. Instead of planned obsolescence, there's a
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: planned Permanen's like, hey, let's make something that lasts for
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: a long time. That's one. Makes something that's repairrable. That's another. One.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Really kind of brilliant thing that we're going to talk
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: about later is this idea of instead of owning something
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: like sharing stuff, renting things, sharing things, paying for the
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: use of things that you don't own, right, like, you know,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: splitting that up and then if something finally does reach
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: the end of its life, because not everything will last forever,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: even the most well made thing. Those components then you
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: can take down and hopefully most of not all of
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: that can be recycled or remade into something else.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you'll notice, reduction of consumption isn't an
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: emphasis of this. I didn't see that talked about much
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: at all. So no one's saying like, hey, you can't
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: keep growing. It's just that the stuff that you're creating
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: needs to last much, much longer, and the greatest thing
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: you can do is to keep it as close to
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: the consumer as possible. Right, So let's say you have
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: a hammer. Everybody knows a hammer breaks, like the second
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: time you ever use it.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Would you hammer in the morning more of the evening
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: for me?
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, but I would do it all over the land, right,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: So when you take a hammer, I was kidding about
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: it breaking. But if you have a hammer and you
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: don't use it a lot, the best you could do
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: is give it to somebody else who is going to
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: use it more, rather than throw the hammer away. That's
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: a terrible example. I know people don't really throw hammers away,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: but keeping it it reused, so that there's no inputs
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: or very little inputs. That's the ideal. The more inputs necessary,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: taking it apart, transporting it somewhere, putting it back together,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: refurbishing it, that is the least desirable, even though that's
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: still within this scope that we currently have in the
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: linear model. That that's like the best you can do.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: The you know, like recycling, recycling is the last thing
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: you want to do.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and hammer's not the worst idea, my friend, because
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: I'd say ninety nine percent of the people out there,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: if they're hammer handle breaks. Let's say you have a
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: wooden hammer handle and that breaks, people just throw it
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: in the trash and you can fix that. One of
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: my favorite things to do is I follow a few
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Instagram accounts where people fix things in front of your
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: face like that, just simple everyday things. And it's incredibly
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: rewarding to see someone take something that would normally be
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: in the trash and they're like, Oh, you need to
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: do is get another piece of wood. Get that other
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: piece of wood fully out of there, h and shape
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: it like the broken piece. And then you've got another hammer.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: How do you shape it like the broken piece? What
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: tool do you need for that?
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, these people do this for a living,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: so they may have a lath or something, but like,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: it doesn't even have to be pretty. I could I
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: bet you give me a broken hammer, buddy, with my
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: limited tools and skills, I could make that hammer new
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: again if I really wanted to.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, here's a challenge. I challenge all stuff you should
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: know listeners to mail Chuck your broken hammers and he
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: will show every single one of them for you for
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: free and mail them back out of his own pocket.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: That's right. Send it to a top one hundred podcaster
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: at one two three Lane, Atlanta, Georgia. Should we take
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: a break, Yeah, let's.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Take a break.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: All right, we'll be right back.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: So okay, so far basically what we've been saying are
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: all good ideas. Very few people are like no, I
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: want to throw my hammer away. I get the deep
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: satisfaction throwing that broken hammer away. Most people just don't
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: want their hammer to break, which again is addressed like
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: making products planned for permanence, making them just better rather
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: than cheaper. But all of this stuff like is going
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: to take a complete shift in how we view economics,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: how we view growth, and also how we view consumer
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: behavior because we're in a linear model right now, and
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: the basis of the linear model is making it as
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: easy as possible for you to buy and use and
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: throw away get rid of whatever product it is you're buying,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: whether it's potato chips, a hammer, a cotton for a car, whatever.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: You're gonna get me every time. By the way, I
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: could keep going back to that. Well, yeah, but you know,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: there are examples of things and companies that are and
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: have been doing this. You know, Dave looked down on
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: his kitchen table and saw an aluminum can, was like, hey,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: there's a good example right there. Aluminum is a very
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: recyclable thing, and thankfully it's it's being recycled and at
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: pretty good rates. It depends on where you are. If
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: like you're in Brazil, that's about one hundred percent, if
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: you're in the USA about sixty five percent. But the
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: average aluminum can that you're gonna purchase in the United
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: States is made from about seventy one percent recycled material.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: So we're doing okay there, it's a good example.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: We're doing great. It's a great example. It's the probably
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: the top example as far as the United States goes.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: People tend to recycle cans, and they're easy to recycle,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: So we have a process in an infrastructure that makes
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: the whole thing fairly low hanging fruit. And because aluminum
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: cans are light enough but also compactable, you can transport
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: a bunch of them, so it's worth your while to
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: transport them from a pickup site to like our actual
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: recycling centers. It's just checking all of the boxes. Even still,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: though you see, with as easy as it is, thirty
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: five percent of those aluminum cans just get thrown away
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: in the trash.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Who's doing that?
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: A lot of people? I mean, I'll do that. Yeah,
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: I know, it's it's kind of nuts, but that is
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: the case. So that right there just kind of goes
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: to show you like that's where the consumer behavior needs
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: to change. Everything else is basically in place for us
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: to recycle all of the aluminum cans that we have,
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: we're just not doing it. So that's like kind of
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: one pillar or an example of one of the pillars
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: that has to be adapted to go to a circular
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: economy making people more thoughtful.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: I guess, good luck, buddy.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: I know, I think that's probably more than anything what
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: makes this a pipe dream, I should say. The most
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: cynical side of me says that.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Is, getting everybody on board with a single idea these
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: days is not possible, basically.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because all it takes is one schmo to throw
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: his can away in the trash and you just lost
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: you one hundred percent recycling status and then everybody goes,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: what's the point of a circular economy anyway? And goes
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: back to the linear economy.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but the stat that could throw out then is
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: one hundred percent except Gary, mm, you.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Know, and it would be a Gary.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry Gary's. You know, it's true.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not all Garys are bad, but all bad people
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: are Gary's.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: There's the stuff you should know shirt, not all Gary's.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Just that's it, okay. There are also some examples of
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: companies that, you know, I'm a big Shark Tank fan
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: of that TV show, and it seems like more and
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: more companies are coming through there that are that are small,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: and obviously they're small because they're on Shark Tank and
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: looking for initial investments, but they're trying to do the
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: right thing here. Getting corporations on board is the big problem.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: But I've seen a lot of companies come through Shark
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Tank where they're like and the reason I mentioned this
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: is because Unilever is one of the examples of a
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: corporation that's partnered with the Ella MacArthur Foundation. They're reducing
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: plastic waste and they sell a ton of stuff. But
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: like when they're selling detergent and stuff like that, or shampoo,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: now they have programs where you're like, hey, send in
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: your empty shampoo bottle and we will fill that thing
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: up and send it back to you or get it
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: and concentrate stuff like that. And there's a lot of
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: like shark Tank companies that are doing similar things, including
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: cleaning products, where they're like, hey, there's a better way
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: to do this, where you're just not even if you're
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: recycling that plastic, just burning through these things on a
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: daily and weekly basis and tossing it in the recycling
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: or worse trash.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: For sure, right, And I think like entrepreneurs creating small
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: businesses and focusing on like one thing that is sustainable, reusable, whatever,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: that's how larger corporations start doing that stuff because they
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: buy those smaller corporations for that idea and implement it
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: company wide hopefully. So that's great that those people are
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: out there.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Or they squash it, yeah, or they squash it. Yeah.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Lord, I just wanted to tell everybody we should say hi, Jerry,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Jerry's here everyone.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Oh I was I was wrong.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw that there are I did not see
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: a single shampoo refilling station in the US there. I
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: found them in Indonesia, Mexico, Philippines, and Pakistan so far.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: I mean that's that's even better because then you're not,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: you know, mailing stuff, you know, because that's another type
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: of ways. It's like just mailing the empty bottles and
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: having that mail back.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I mean, if you're going to the
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: store already and they're like, they're attractive little shampoo refilling centers,
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: and I guess if you were really hard up, you
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: could go just put your head under the nozzle and
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: do a little little squirt and then run home and
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: wash your hair.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean they've been doing that with the big
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: five gallon jugs of water forever, you know, at most right,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: I thought of that too. Yeah, that's a good thing
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: because those things are are huge, and just swapping those
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: out and refilling them just it only makes sense. Yep.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: There's also there's a Dutch company called Niaga, which is
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: again backwards. You'd never know that unless someone told you,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: or you happen to be wearing a Niaga T shirt
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: in front of a mirror.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is the word again. I think just the
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: way you said that might be confusing.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, I got you. Yeah, I'm sure it was confusing.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Can't you just hear like a time podcast monitor going
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: and like checking some box that keeps us off the list?
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like one on one.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: So if we're lucky. So this company, they're Dutch, they
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: targeted carpets and mattresses and those are two of the
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: worst offenders as far as at least as far as
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: textiles go, but maybe as far as all products go. Yeah,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: because they're big, they're essentially impossible to recycle. They're very,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: very hard to recycle, and people throw a lot of
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: them away. I think twenty million mattresses are thrown away
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: in the United States alone, thirty million in Europe. And
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: we tossed about two billion pounds yeah, of carpet away
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: every year in the United States into landfills. Only five
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: percent of carpet gets recycled. I couldn't even tell you
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: where you would recycle carpet.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Is there a place called recarpet Maybe
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: that's what it should be called, right.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Or carpets again, right, or all of that backward. Yeah.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: I mean the other reason those two they're targeting those
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: two a is because the people of the Netherlands are great.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: And hey, if you live in the Netherlands and you
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: would go see a live podcast of us there in Amsterdam,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: let us know. Sure, let's go ahead and just say
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: that we're putting out feelers for Europe, so we'd love
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: to hear from people about where we might could get
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: an audience. Sure, is that okay to say that?
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we should probably tell everybody it won't be for
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: two years.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're targeting twenty seven, but we're going to get
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: back on the road next year, coming for you Canada
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: in a big way.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, So you better close the borders.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: That's a little Well, they might hope it will be
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: welcome to get a pass.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: I hope it's up in the air.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: But long way of saying, the reason that they are
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: targeting those specifically is not just the lifespan, but they
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: actually have a name. They're called Medium Life Bulky Products.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: They you know, this stuff lasts about ten years, and
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: they're just full of nasty chemicals, and so all of
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: that leads to them being the two of the worst defenders.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Mattresses and carpet full of chemicals don't last long, and
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: they're fairly large.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, especially if they're stained mattresses.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, good luck recycling that.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: I saw eighty two and twenty years for a mattress
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: to degrade in a landfill, which actually seemed a little
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: fast for me. You know, it's still not fast enough.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: So this company is like, Okay, we're actually going to
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: make this stuff out of recyclable materials. But even better
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: than that, we're going to make it so that every
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: part of the mattress is replaceable.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Imagine that or repaarable.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, so you're like, I got just a gallons of
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: urine staining the cover of my mattress. I need a
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: new mattress cover. Rather than throwing out the whole mattress
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: and waiting one hundred and twenty years for it to degrade,
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: you just call up Niaga and you say, hey, send
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: me another mattress cover, and they say, hey, we didn't
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: know that you could call direct from the United states
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: to the Netherlands. But that's new for us. We'll send
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: it to you straight away and they send it to you.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: You put it back on and there's no yearine whatsoever
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: until the next time it happens.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: That's right. But they say what's the magic word and
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: you have to go bug in like it's like a
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: two year old.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: Again, that's the actually do that.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: It's great, And we'll look at other Dutch companies because
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: they they're they're doing the right thing. It seems like
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. One key to all of
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: this is, uh design. If you have a linear economy,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: which we do. Like we said, it's it's purpose it's purposeful.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: It's designed in such a way to make it, you know,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: either obsolete or just you know, a mattress that can't
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: be recovered or whatever. So you have to start with design.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: It has to start on the very conceptual phase of like,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: how could we make a mattress that could last you forever?
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: And then you design it that way because it's possible.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and design doesn't just apply to products, although that's
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: the easiest thing to do, is to say, Okay, how
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: can I design this product to fit into the existing
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: recycling infrastructure, or design it to be reusable or repairrable.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: That's the easiest one. We also, though, need to design
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: our recycling infrastructure to make it easier to recycle products
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: that aren't designed to be recycled. So there's a lot
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: of design that has to go. But you're right, like,
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: it has to be a conscious choice, and Dave points
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: out something I think is important too, Waste is a
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: conscious choice too, Like when your little like mini bag
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: of lazed potato chips, when you're done with it, you
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: throw it away. It was designed to be thrown away,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: like that was a decision that was made by the
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: package designers. They didn't do anything to try to make
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: it recyclable. They decided that the best thing for you
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: to do with that package is to throw it away.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: And as much as you hate it, you have no choice.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Your choice is to buy those those lazed potato chips
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: or not buy them. And some people are starting to
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: based on the packaging. So people so some companies are
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: starting to wake up. But for the most part, people
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: are like, I don't want to think about but the
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: packaging that my potato chips come in. I have so
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: many more bigger pressing issues right now that if you
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: can just make it so that the people don't have
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: to think about recycling it, then you're onto something.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: And I was talking about myself. I don't want to
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: think about what I'm supposed to know on a potato
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: chip package. And I'm not being judgy, like I'm including
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: myself in this like I I mean, I would like
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: to think I'm more conscientious than say the average person,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: but I'm certainly I'm not at like Chuck level.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: I'm not like the Emily level. You know me, I'm
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: on her coattails right well. I mean when I was
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: a kid, we had the Charles Chips driver come around. Yeah,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: I remember that, and we would give them our I mean,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: if you're of a certain age, you might remember this.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: There was a literal potato chip delivery company. They were
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: called Charles Chips, and they came in a big metal
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: ten and you would finish with that ten, and your
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: chip person would come by and you would give them
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: the ten of empty chips and they would give you
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: a full ten of chips.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They'd reach in with the cuff of their shirt,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: wipe the tin out, put the chips in the tin
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: sometimes I saw.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And obviously again there's still waste with the delivery
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: truck and stuff, so save the emails. But we're talking
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: about you know, we're not idealizing it as perfect. We're
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: just saying like it's a better thing than what we're
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: doing now, which is those little foil bags sitting in
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: landfills for sure.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: And yeah, that's another thing too, is because this is
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: kind of conceptual and not every issue is being tackled
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: right out of the gate with it. Like energy uses
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: a big part of it. So they obviously are like, well,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: we need more renewables. That's kind of a no brainer.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: But it's important because not everything can be done with
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: renew with renewable resources. Some stuff just requires fossil fuels.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Some stuff, say, requires nuclear, So you have to be
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: able to design those power plants or those industrial smoke
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: stacks so that that stuff's being captured and reused as
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: an input somehow.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Right exactly. And you know you talked about educating the consumer,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: but and it's not educating the corporation because they know
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: this stuff. They do it on purpose for a reason,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: like you said, But it's more about like companies coming
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: along where the end user isn't the single focus. They
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: take a more macro view and say, well, there's something
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: bigger at work with these products we sell, and that's
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Planet Earth and Mother Nature. And while the consumer is
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: important and we want to give them a good product,
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: we can start from the beginning and design something that
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: has less of an environmental impact, designed to fit within
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: these recycling networks, like you know, aluminum, like you were
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: talking about, like once those are up and running, and
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: a big one that I didn't even think of that
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: day pointed out was like do you need this new product?
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Does the consumer need it or is it just like, hey,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: I think we could boost sales in Q three if
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: we released a slightly different version of this dumb same thing.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Right, So you kind of mentioned something where like using
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: something like leasing or renting something can also be applied
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: to things we don't normally think of is what we
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: lease or rent. Right. One of the again a Dutch
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: company called Bundles is basically they come to your house.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: They'll bring you your dishwasher or your washing machine, or
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: your dryer, or your coffee maker, or you can bundle
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: it all together. It's the name, and they're going to
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: bring you a really high end Mela sustainably manufactured appliance,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: and you're going to have this thing in your house
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: and you don't have to lift a finger other than
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: to use it. This company brings it, they install it,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: they come by and maintain it when it's done. When
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: you're done with it, say you're moving and you can't
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: use it anymore, they're going to come pick it up.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: They're going to refurbish it. They're going to bring it
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: to somebody else. It's like really circular. And the way
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: that you are charged for it is by the number
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: of washes you I guess carry out. I guess that's
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: how you talk about launder you carry out a wash.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: It is called a paper wash model, and the whole
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: basis of it is Wi Fi, like your washing machine
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: is connected to their servers, so they're tracking how many
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: times you're washing. And then from what I can tell,
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: you get a monthly bill based on the amount of
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: washes you did, the amount of use you did for that,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: or you use for the washer or the dryer or whatever.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: It might take away here is what You've never washed
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: your own clothes? Have you?
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: That is not true. I'm actually kind of good at
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: my own clothes. I had to get good because I
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: don't know how I do it. But there's not a
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: day that goes by that I don't get a spot
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: on one of my T shirts. So I've gotten good
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: at salvaging T shirts.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Same, same. It's incredible how stained my T shirt gets
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: on a regular basis. And I do believe you can
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: carry out a wash like nobody's business.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: Shout. That's what I use. I shout it out. It
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: works really well.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: I use and I hate having to use it. But
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: my friend from that has been working in wardrobe departments
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: in Hollywood for thirty years said, zout is the one
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: I've not heard of.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Zout? Why do you hate to use it? Is it
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: made from coal?
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: It's just one of those disgustingly smelly products.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Is it naptha?
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but no, I mean they mask it.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: It smells like, you know, just really really really really
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: heavily fragranced. Yeah, and you know we're not down with that.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: So it gets out of spot. But it'll it'll taint
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: you gotta wash it by itself. It'll it'll taint your
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: whole load. Should we take a break, Yeah, all right,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: We'll take a break and be right back. All right,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: we're back. I did want to mention one thing. We
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: had to take a quicker break. We were laughing too hard.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: But on bundles and that renting appliances, you have to
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: do a lot of education in the United States to
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: overcome the perception of what the rented appliances means. Yeah,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: because we grew up in and you know, it's it's
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: probably still the same way as gen xer is, where
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: you know, appliance rental was something like you did if
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: you couldn't afford to buy stuff, like you rented your
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: TV or whatever. You're like, oh, man, that means you
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: don't have much money to buy a TV. But there
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: is a better way. And I wish they had the
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: here man, because we've had some really bad appliance luck
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: and it makes me so mad because this stuff's expensive.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: I would love to rent washer and dryer.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll rent you mine a bird.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: They can carry out a heck of a watch.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's part of the American dream to own your
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: own washer and dryer.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: And I mean, man, no, I hate those things.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: The government can take it from your cold dead hand
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: if they try, Uh, Yeah, that's definitely. It's definitely part
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: of American cultures. You own your stuff. Yes, you will
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: talk about food though, Okay, you own that too. If
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: you buy that, you own it here in the United States.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Not sure what it's like in other countries. But food
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: is a huge problem. We've done an entire episode I
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: think on food waste before. I know, we've talked about
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: it extensively because I remember, and what's sad is we've
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: been talking about this for decades now and the stat
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: remains the same. A third of all of the food
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: grown in the world gets thrown away every year, about
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: a trillion dollars worth, and mindless amounts of water and
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: fertilizer and labor inputs just wasted. Not just in the
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: face of all that loss of like money or resources,
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: but it doesn't even get diverted to the poorest people
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: in the world who are starving.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And that's a great episode, So I
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: encourage you to go listen to those. But one thing
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know that we've covered on any of these shows.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: While we were you know, beating those horses.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: What dead horses, skinning those cats, is.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: The nutrient cycle. And you know obviously, you know, wasting
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: food is a is a moral problem, an ethical problem.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: But one thing we haven't talked much about is that
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: it disrupts that nutrient cycle. If you look at nature,
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: the system they have is is a closed loop system there.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: You know, things grow naturally out in the woods and
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: it is from soil that is being you know, if
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: it's just literally out in the forest, just being treated
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: naturally by the natural processes of Mother Earth, and then
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: an animal eats that thing and then poops it out,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: and that poop goes back into the soil and feeds
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: the soil. That animal falls over dead one day, hopefully
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: a very old age, then their bodies decompose and release
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: those nutrients back into the earth. And it is a
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: dare i say, elegant system that humans have come along
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: and completely disrupted.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we make food part of our linear economy where
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: the food waste doesn't just get tossed on the ground
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: and biodegrade into it. You don't want to do that anyway,
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: just the annual PSA. Don't throw apple cores and banana
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: peels on the ground because that's not a good thing
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: to do. What's the best thing to do is to
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: compost them and to some degree or some way. The
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: worst thing you can do, though, is to throw them
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: in a trash can and have them taken to the landfill,
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: because then those nutrients that were put into that food
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: have been taken out of the nutrient cycle for Earth,
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: at least for however long it's gonna take for that
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: entire landfill to degrade, which I can't even imagine how
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: long it takes an entire landfill that just turned back
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: into nutrients and stuff. So it's disrupted in that way.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: Then we also disrupt it because we don't tend to
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: collect our waste for reuse. It's an output, pure and simple,
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: we don't we don't put it back into the system.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: So there's two ways that we disrupt the nutrient cycle
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: with our with the way that we treat our food.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. This may be part of a suite, like
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: a playlist one day, because I just realized, we've done
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: things on sewage recycling or sewage treatment plants, we've done
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: them on landfills, So maybe we should do like a
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: little green playlist one day.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We got one on permaculture that was pretty great.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: Before we move on though, I should say some of
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: that those what are called biosolids treated sewage. They it
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: does get reused in some cases. Have you used malorganite? Uh?
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Why do I know that word. I think we've talked
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: about that.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: It's a miracle fertilizer. It does wonders for your grass,
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: especially if you pair it with an inch of water
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: flooding your grass. But it's these little particles and they smell,
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: but not smell the way you would think because they
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: actually are treated sewage from Milwaukee's municipal sewerage system. Huh,
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: but they it's like a nitrogen boost for its fertilizer
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: for your lawn. It's insane how well it works. It's cheap,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: and you're reusing waste from the good people of Milwaukee.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Well that's great, and you can get.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: It almost anywhere. It's very it's very abundant and easy
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: to get and I highly recommend it.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: I'm down to zero grass now.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, you could use it on basically any plants. So
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: if you have plants that like nitrogen, you can toss
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: a little milorganite on there.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: I'll pass out along to Emily Sheep. I'm sure she
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: knows about it.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: Zero grass is your entire lawn just or your entire
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: yard just covered with high end antique screen doors. That's right,
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: it's a good look, I'll vet it is. I'll bet
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: they it's a little wobbly though, right walking around?
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: Or are they just for looking?
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: No? No, no, you walk on it, okay. So Ellen
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: MacArthur's foundation is looking to correct this and making like
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: basically investing in the biological cycle of the circular economy,
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: like making this a part of it too. And composting
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: is an obvious win. But one of the things that
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: is pretty amazing is called cascading, that is reusing food
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: waste to make other things. And there's a what a
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Dutch company called Peel Pioneers because you know in those
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: in fruit peels like orange and lemon and stuff like that,
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: that's the best stuff is in that peel, the zest
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: of those things and the essential oils that you get
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: from those peels, like that's the goal man. And people
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: are throwing that away or composting it, which is okay.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: But how about taking this essential oils and actually making
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: other products out of them? And that is what Peel
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Pioneers out of the Netherlands is doing.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's I mean, you can find cascading in
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: a lot of different food companies, but that's a great
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: example because those that orange essential oil is in particular,
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: are used in a lot of different other products. So
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: you can have a pretty successful business just harvesting the
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: scraps off the floor of an orange juice processor, you know.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, converting stuff to biofuel is another pretty obvious one.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then anaerobic digesters I have. I'm putting a
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: lot of like hope on anaerobic digesters in the future
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: where we just figure out the microbes that eat this stuff,
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: or these microbes eat this kind of plastic, these microbes
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: eat this kind of oil, and like just unleash them
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: on all sorts of stuff and then reuse their byproducts
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: as inputs. I really hope we reach that future. That
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: to me is like the greenest of green.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we've talked about that too. I can't remember what episode.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: I can either. We'll we'll have to use that stuff
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: you should know transcript search tool to find.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like it was like someone was using
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: worms to do something than that ring a bell.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: It might have been a biofuel app.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe, So we'll look at up. Can we talk
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: about fashion?
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is just crazy to me. I think we
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: should do an entire episode on fast fashion, but we
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: can hit some high points. I think.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fast fashion is sort of an environmental nightmare and
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: a humanitarian nightmare because they're made in sweatshops for very
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: little pay by people you know, making very little pay.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: They are sold very cheaply. Cheap synthetic materials are used,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: so all the inputs are bad, they don't last long,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: and it's an environmental nightmare. Basically, I think the fashion
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: industry is the second largest consumer of water. That has
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: to be behind the factory farming, right, Yeah, and it
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: produces ten percent. The fashion industry produces ten percent of
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: the global CO two emissions total.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and eighty five percent of all the stuff that
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: the fashion industry makes ends up in landfills, not recycled landfills.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: Eighty five percent of all the clothes made in the
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: entire world. There's another issue with it too. When you
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: wash just washing, just using these things, washing them in
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: your bundles least washing machine, you're releasing microplastics into the ocean.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Because a lot of clothes, even recycled clothes, are made
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: from plastics or contained plastics and those things get flushed
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: out and it's a huge plastic pollution problem too, which
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: is I mean, it's ironic. Like Patagonia is always hull
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: up as a great example of a company that tries
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: to make sustainable circular clothing, and one of the things
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: that they you is there. I think their line of
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: responsibility t shirts super cute. They're made from fabric scraps. Cool,
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: but also plastic bottles also cool because we want to
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: recycle plastic bottles. But the problem is is that plastic
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: gets transferred to the ocean. So it's one of those
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: things where it's like we're so far from figuring the
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: stuff out that even the people who are trying to
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: do something are still having inverting effects that you know,
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: I'm sure keeps them up at night.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And you can also, man, you can
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: send a ten year old pullover to Patagonia that had
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: a collar that ripped or something and they'll fix that
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: thing for you, probably for nothing. Yeah, And you can
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: buy you can send stuff back to them that they
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: will resell, and you can buy like, you know, gently
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: used things from Patagonia online. They are also working with
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: a startup called Infinitive Fiber, And what they're doing is
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: they're they're working on the on the waste on the
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: front end. It's a process to recycle that textile waste,
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: because you know, it's not like, all right, we've got
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: this much cotton and every single fiber goes into making
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: that T shirt and there's zero waste or that car. Yeah,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry about that that car. There's you know, there's
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: gonna be some textile waste on the front end. And
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: so what they're doing is they're they're taking that stuff
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: and they're recycling that textile waste into a new fiber
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: called Infina.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that stuff is one hundred percent recyclable. So eventually,
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: over time, if this loop were allowed to really kind
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: of take hold, eventually all the cotton would be put
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: into or transferred into the Infina circle. And since it's
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent recyclable, you could conceivably never have to
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: put new cotton in again. Yeah, for sure, I don't
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: think it's gonna happen anytime soon. I'm just saying conceptually,
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: that's kind of how this stuff works.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's even compostable.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: It is, so you would have to put some new
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: cotton in once in a while, because Gary would go
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: compost it just to be a jerk, right, But yeah,
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: for the most part, you could. Once it really kind
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: of took hold and got going, it could can it
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: could overtake the existing cotton stocks and make them one
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: hundred percent recyclable, and then you wouldn't need more cotton stocks,
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: which is again an issue we'd have to deal with
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: because then all the cotton farmers are out of.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: Work, that's right, and we have no more new cotton
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: cars on the road.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: But one other thing that I found that really got
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: to meet Chuck. I found a stat that said that
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: most of the returns, like if you try something on,
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: like a clothing, especially if it's mail to you and
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: you try it on and send it back, right, Yeah,
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: most of those things are thrown away into land. Yes,
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: what nine point five billion pounds of just clothing returns
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: alone were put into landfills in twenty twenty two.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: Unconsionable.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and the reason why is because companies are like,
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to pay somebody to fold this thing
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: back up, put the pins back in it, put it
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: in the plastic, and make it new again. So that
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: I can sell it. It's cheaper for me to just
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: throw it away. And there are programs that divert that
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: stuff to like developing countries so that those clothes are donated.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: But I guarantee that's not as cheap for the company
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: as it is to just throw it away. That's a
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: huge impact that the fast fashion industry has on the planet.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: That's crazy to me.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't been this upset about something I've heard
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: from you in a long time.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: And I say some upsetting stuff. I know you usually
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: text them to me, but those are upsetting pictures, all right.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: One last thing we can talk about is the right
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: to repair movement, which we talked about in the Planned
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: Obsolescence episode. But you know, it's exactly what you think it's. It's, hey,
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: we need to be able to repair our whatever's our
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: small appliances. That's a big offender. A lot of companies
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: are saying because you know, I don't know if we
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: covered this part, but because I don't remember why companies
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: didn't do it, or at least why they say they
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: don't do it. One thing they'll say is like, oh,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: you know what with electronics, if we publish like how
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: to other people can fix these things and basically give
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: repair companies repair manuals. Like it's it leads people vulnerable
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: to hackers that they can get information from that electronic device.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: And I just call foul on that. That sounds like
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: a bunch of bs to me.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: They're like, don't forget hackers. Hackers are going to get
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: you more.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you want your whatever your iPhone.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: Fixed, right and you can't. I have an Acer Swift
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: laptop that I love, but it's I've tried to replace
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: the battery before and it's designed to not replace the battery.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: You cannot replace the battery, and obviously the battery is
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: the first thing that goes out.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: It's infuriating.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: It is infuriating because it's like he made it so
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: that you have to get rid of your laptop and
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: get another one. It drives me nuts. So if you
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: put all this together, chuck like electronics companies successfully lobbying
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: against right to repair laws, companies using planned obsolescens left
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: and right, people like Gary just throwing their stuff away
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: to be jerks like, how can this even be implemented?
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: I can't see it happening, at least in the United States.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: I know the EU is really taking some strides towards
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: this stuff, and hats off to them. But in the
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: United States, I can't in the foreseeable future, like as
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: far as I can think out, I can't see this
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: being implemented.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: No, I mean certainly not now with what's going on
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: in our country, and that I'm not trying to get
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: too political, but that's just the fact. It's not a
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: not only a priority for our current administration to invest
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: at all in something like a circular economy, but it's
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: not even on the radar, right, or or its outright
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: being squashed right.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Even more disturbing is that even outside of the United States,
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: globally speaking, recycling or secondary materials being put back in
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: as inputs is actually on the decline by significant numbers.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're headed in the wrong direction, right, even though
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: Day points out that like social media posts and articles
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: about the circular economy are have tripled in the last
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: five years, so there's more awareness. But we're going in
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: the wrong direction as far as actual you know, feed
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: on the floor kind of stuff.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and consumption keeps growing and growing and growing. Apparently
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: from twenty eighteen to twenty twenty four, we consumed five
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: hundred gigatons of material. That's everything raw material, finished material,
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: fossil fuels, and that is twenty eight percent of the
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: total amount we consumed in the last one hundred and
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: twenty five years. Yeah, so it's just growing exponentially. So yeah,
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of stuff to overcome. You might say
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: it would take like an authoritarian government to implement this
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: kind of thing. And it turns out China has committed
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: to creating a circular economy for themselves back in the
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: two thousands, and apparently they're focused right now on automotive
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: re manufacturing, which is essentially taking old cars and refurbishing
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: them and their parts, selling them like new at a
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: discountant price because they're refurbished. Oh okay, so I guess
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: keep an eye on China and the EU to see
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: where things go. Chuck laughed a little bit, but his
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: laugh was dripping with Okay, let's go to a listener mail.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: So he just unlocked listener mail.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: This is a correction on a correction. So we heard
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: from quite a few people about the most famous brand
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Fortian people wrote in, said Alexander Graham Bell Forget Gretzky
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: and Phil Hartman Alexander Grahm Bell was not born in Branford,
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: so this is from Joel. Hey, guys, probably not the
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: first person to say this, but I'm correcting your email
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: correction that claimed Alexander Grambell was born in Branford. He
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: certainly lived in Branford, so they claim him he was
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: born in Scotland and move to Branford as a young man.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: I guess at one point in his life he would
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: definitely say he was from Branford, but that's not where
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: he's from. Love the show. That is from Joel Dawson.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: Very nice. So I guess Phil Hartman moves back up
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: to number two.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: I guess so. And you know what, whenever someone sends
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: in their business or something and it seems pretty cool,
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: we like to tout them. Yes, and Joel signed his with
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: Free Spirit Tours dot c A. So I'm looking now
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: it looks like paddling and stand up paddle boarding, caving,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: forest therapy, wine tastings wouldness wellness.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: Also, I want to shout out which bolt again? Did
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: you see which bowl got in touch with this to
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: say thanks for the mentioned on the Alchemy episode. I
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: did not see that they did. He did. I should say.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: He got in touch to say, hey, you guys want
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: some T shirts? Thanks a lot. He's been listening for
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: fifteen years. His name is Nick. He's been a listener
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: for fifteen years. Which Bolt has, Remember the Dungeon synth guy?
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: So he wrote in and I was like, I'm actually
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: a little starstruck right now. So there's like this big
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: circular love fest going on, not a circular economy, but
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: a circular love fest going on between Stuff you Should
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: Know in Which Bolt right now?
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: All right, Well, if you want to get in touch
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: with us, like Joel or which Bolt, you can send
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: us an email too, send it off to stuff podcast
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: at iHeartRadio dot com.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
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• 53:52
  Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.