Latest / The Dave Allen Show / 06/07/2023 580 Live with Dale Cooper - Jeff Jenkins, Jess Miers

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06/07/2023 580 Live with Dale Cooper - Jeff Jenkins, Jess Miers · The Dave Allen Show

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zero one one zero one us in Opinions expressed on this program do not necessarily
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Five eighty Live is presented by Thornhill Automotive and is broadcast live from the
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Parmar Stores studio eight minutes past nine o'clock. You're listening to five eighty Love
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WCHS the Voice of Charleston. I'm Deal Cooper filling in for Dave Allen today
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and tomorrow day. We'll be back on Friday with a normal show. He's
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got some business he has to take care of with Parmore, so I'm going
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to be stepping in here for the next couple of days. Appreciate you tuning
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in more or less open phone calls here. For the first segment, Jeff
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Jenkins is going to join me in just a moment. We're going to talk
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about the the service for the for a trooper Maynard. Uh, he's having
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an immoral service for him today. I want to talk about that. In
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just a few minutes. We can take some general phone calls. If you
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want to get anything out, share your opinion on anything. We'll open that
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up three or four three fifty fifty eight, three or four three four five
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fifty eight fifty eight. You can text over questions to three zero four nine
1:23
three five five years zero eight or comments as far as that goes. More
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towards the bottom of the hour, I'm going to have a guest on looking
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forward to bring this to you. Jess Myers is going to be with me.
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She is a legal advocacy council for the Chamber of Progress, and she
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is an expert when it comes through. She's widely considered an expert on US
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intermediary liability law and has written, spoken, and taught extensively about topics such
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as speech, free speech, content moderation, age verification, and Section two
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thirty. As far as online goes, there's all of these age verification bills
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that are rolling out across the country. Sounds like one of those types of
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things that our legislature would love so I thought I get ahead of it a
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little bit and we'll learn a little bit about these age verification bills, the
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pros and cons of it, and we'll get into section two thirty a little
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bit too. That's a popular topic among those online, and so we're going
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to talk about two thirty as well. So if you have any questions about
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privacy online and about section two thirty, we are going to have a world
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renowned expert on at the bottom of the hour. That's gonna be Jess Myers
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from the Legal Advocacy Council, and that'll be coming up here in about thirty
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minutes. Jeff Jenkins is joining me now from the WCHS in the Metro News
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newsroom. Of course, it's a somber day for what we're covering here in
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the state and continuation of this story about Sergeants Corey Maynard, who of course
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is having a memorial service today. Yeah. They are at Mingo Central High
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School. So Sergeant Maynard was stationed there with the Detachment Commander at the Williamson
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Detachment of the State Police who was shot and killed as investigators described as ambush
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style last Friday evening last Friday afternoon in in the may One area, Beach
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Creek area, which is near may One, and so today he'll be remembered
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in a memorial service. Funeral service that will take place at Mingo Central High
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School. So the visitation begins at noon. The funeral which will not be
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audio recorded or video streamed. That's the wishes that the family has turned over.
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But it will happen at three o'clock. And then a procession that will
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go from there from Minor Mountain that's what they call where Mingo Central is,
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down through Williamson and then on quarter g up to Chapmanville will take place this
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evening. So we'll be there to cover it. We expect at police officers
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funerals, trooper's funerals, there are usually police officers from surrounding states that will
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be I'm sure here today and obviously a lot of the community that will that
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will turn out too. Just I want to reset a little bit. I'm
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doing this a little bit from my own benefit, because sometimes you're so close
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to two stories when you're working. Just this story moved so quickly. I
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know we broke in last week when when the baseball tournent was going on,
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trying to keep folks up to date on this situation, but a lot of
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the information broke after typical business hours and when things come on. So can
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you walk me through just a little bit of a timeline of what happened here?
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Yeah? Yeah, So Friday afternoon, there was a shooting in the
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Beach Creek area of Mate one, uh and it came out, you know,
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as a person who had been shot. A man had been shot.
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We come to find out later who that was, and he was shot with
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a shotgun and had gone to a residence there for some help. And so
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it was called in this guy who had been shot, and the troopers responded
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and Sergeant Maynard one of those who responded to that area looking for the shooter.
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And according to investigators, and again we don't know a whole lot about
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exactly what happens. They police in the criminal complaint that led to the arrest
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of the suspect in this not not much, not many details at all.
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Timothy Kennedy is the guy who's charged, and not many details at all about
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it. But they have said that the trooper was shot in an ambush style,
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so basically, you know, pulled up, got out and got shot.
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That's what it sounds like. And then police responded try to find the
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suspect. Took about seven hours to find him, so he was arrested before
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eleven o'clock on Friday night. The trooper Manard was taken to Logan and Regional
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Medical Center, pronounced dead there. His body was brought to Charleston to the
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Medical Examiner's office over on Virginia Street West. We were over there to cover
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that and that procession that brought him there about nine thirty on Friday night.
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And what always strikes me about this too is that the troopers stay with their
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fallen comrade. So actually two troopers stayed there in the parking lot after everybody,
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all the other officers had left, you know, they were there and
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with the body. The body was inside, but they were there in the
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parking lot. And then and then the man who's charged was arraigned on the
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murder charge Saturday morning. No bond said, of course, uh. And
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so he's in the Southwestern Regional Jail. And between as far as the trooper's
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body, trooper Remainder's body, it was taken to the morgantent Era for a
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tissue donation. He was a tissue donor so that happened on Saturday. Then
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his body was brought back on Sunday, and then the services a schedule for
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today. So there the man who has charged. He was in court yesterday.
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We have a story about that. For a bond hearing, you can
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ask for bond, and the circuit judge a Mingo County denied the bond.
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So he remains in jail without bond, and he scheduled to have a preliminary
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hearing tomorrow. Now he could wave that so remains to be seen. But
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if he does have a preliminary hearing, there had to be some evidence that
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prosecutors will put out there on exactly what happened, So that could come tomorrow.
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But today is about you know, Trooper Maynard and all that we've learned
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about him. We've done several stories, a lot of the media has done
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several stories about him. You know, grew up in Belfrey, Kentucky,
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just right across the river there from Williamson, and you know, grew up,
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had a lot of family, and Williamson a lot of family and Belfry
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went to the State Police Academy, was assigned to the Eastern Panhandle first of
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all, and in the mid about twenty fifteen twenty fourteen, was assigned to
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the Eastern Panhandle. So that's where he began. Well actually before that he
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has been a trooper for fifteen years. So but he was assigned to the
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Eastern Panhandle first, and he was actually recognizing this is why I got the
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twenty fifteen and twenty fifteen for saving a man's life. That was that was
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police were pursuing this man and this man then tried to kill himself, taking
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a knife to his own throat and he was bleeding and Troopermainers saved his life
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and was fak was recognized for that for he got a Life saving award and
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so he saved this man's life. That was twenty fifteen. And so then
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after several years in the Eastern Panhandle, he came back home closer to where
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he grew up. Came to Logan County and then Mingo County where he had
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been promoted to sergeant where he was the attachment commander. So folks we spoke
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with mentioned how he's very visible there and Williamson with jog most mornings or take
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a morning walk through Williamson, so people knew him. He frequented the local
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businesses, the pizza shop there, the barber shop there. You know,
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a lot of people knew him. We had photos that were posted by the
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Williamson Public Library of him reading the kids there, you know. So just
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seemed like a guy that was really active in the community. Place where he
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grew up, you know, the general area where he grew up. Has
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He has two these behind a why two children, a girl who's aged fifteen,
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a son who's age nine, and we the family has been great,
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quite honestly, and in such a trying time, the extended family. We
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talked to an uncle yesterday, David Maynard Carrie who to sec talked to him.
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They they gave us a gallery of photos, you know, of the
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family that we've posted at wv metronews dot com. You can see those.
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They have been very open about that and very even a tragic time, very
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good to work with. Now again the funeral and from what we understand from
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Trooper Maynard's wishes, I don't know if at some point a while ago he
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requested that anything ever happened to me. I'm not sure there's box store on
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that, but they might have something like that, right say, police might
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have something like that. That you say whether or not. But that funeral
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will be it's open to the public, but not it won't be streamed,
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it won't be audio recorded at all. And so um. But the procession,
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you know, their state police are urging residents to stand along the procession
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route today, so that will be you know, uh in the southern coal
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fields there uh near. It'll start at Mingo Central High School, come down
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to William Send and go over to Chapmanville. So a lot of that time
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will be on us, you know, on the quarter g on one nineteen.
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But we'll be along that procession today. We'll be up at the school,
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uh hopefully talking to some people there at the school, UM, at
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the funeral service who are coming to pay the respects from twelve the three,
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the funerals at three, and then the procession. Probably the procession is going
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to be sometime between four and five, or you know, sometime between the
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four o'clock and six o'clock hours. I would think, um, and then
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and the family has said this, and he's going being cremated and so and
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then and then the you know, the case against the man whose charge will
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continue. There's nothing I can say that that would make the impact of health
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had this as any any greater. It's just that it strikes me and being
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uh relatively late to fatherhood in my in my in my late forties, it
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just strikes me that that this that this man has young children that were relying
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on him probably the center of their world to some degree. Yeah, and
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man, that that's that's really tough. Well, and like David Mayner said,
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his uncle said that, you know, talking about the kids, this
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is you know, when you're entering those certain ages, this is probably the
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time when they meet their father the most, you know. And uh,
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yeah, so that is that is very tough to think about. You know.
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This is the first trooper death since twenty twelve. May remember their last
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trooper deaths Marshall Bayle and Eric Workman who were shot and killed off the I
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seventy nine exit there in Rome County, Wallback exit. They were shot and
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killed there by a suspect and in their funerals were in early September at the
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Civic Center and they yeah, they were both at the Civic Center and long
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processions there. So so that was those happened right here in Charleston, and
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then the processions back one of the processions, you know, all the way
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back to Clay County. But that was twenty twelve, so you know,
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you're talking about basically eleven years ago, just short of eleven years that the
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last trooper funeral was. But we've had seven. You may had to Cassie
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Johnson funeral in December twenty twenty. We had the Tom Baker funeral, the
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deputy up in Nicholas County just last June this week last June. So three
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of these in the last two and a half years in West Virginia, covering
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a municipal police officer, a sheriffs, a county sheriff's deputy, and now
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state police trooper. Those are extraordinarily a tough By the way, if there
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are folks that that's tugs on your heartstrings and maybe you're looking for a way
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to help the family, they do have a go funding page that's available.
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I just now share that on our social media, so you can go to
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H five a a WC Jazz on both Twitter and on Facebook. You can
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find a link to that go fund me if you if you want to money,
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you can only go so far, of course, but when you're when
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you're in this situation and you're you know, I mean, if you're talking
13:03
Rawley, you are losing income, not only someone who's uh the center of
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your world as a father and a husband, but also you know that that
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was a portion of the breadwinner for the family. You can help that family
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a little bit if you want to. There's nothing wrong with that, right,
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Yeah, and this is going to help with some of the some of
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the expensive David Mayner talked about that a little bit. You can he actually
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gives a comment about the go fund page in uh in our story and carry
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story WV Metro news dot com. So you can go and read about that.
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But yeah, it'd be a very obviously be a very emotional day there.
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We're going to be there reporting on it. There are a little there
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are some um maybe some connectivity challenges quite honestly in that part of the state.
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Sure, Uh so we're gonna we're you know, we're gonna do the
13:46
best we can uh and we'll get to a place where we can feed stuff
13:50
and get stuff back. You hear it both on the local newscast here five
13:54
ad WCHS and obviously on the Metro newscasts. Yeah. Absolutely, So you
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want to stay in tune to us today of course at whstwork dot com,
14:01
on Line five, at e WCHS over the airwaves, and at wwmtrenews dot
14:05
com. There'll be stories updated throughout the day as it comes to UH to
14:09
UH this memorial service of a really sad time. But we have to do
14:13
the diligence and give the proper respect for that in the coverage for it.
14:16
So we'll have all that information here, Yeah, we will. Yes,
14:18
we'll go ahead and take a break when I come back. I'm gonna come
14:20
back for just a couple of minutes. I'm going to talk a little bit.
14:22
Red's had a big moment last night with Ella Dela Cruz debuting a huge
14:26
come from behind victory against the Dodgers. Just got a huge, massive media
14:33
folder sent to me from from a gentleman that I that I made it an
14:37
agreement with I send him a couple of tickets to go to the game and
14:39
get some stuff for me, so I have it. If I have anything
14:41
that I can use briefly in this segment coming back, I'll do that before
14:43
taking a break and getting our guests on at the bottom the hour. So
14:46
we'll go ahead and take a break right now. We'll come back after this.
14:48
If you want to get in on the phone lines, you're more and
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welcome to at three or four, three four five fifty fifty eight three four,
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five fifty. You can text over any questions you have or comments at
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three or four nine through five five zero zero eight. I'm del Cooper'll be
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18:12
minutes past nine o'clock. You're listening to Fay lived Chs, the Voice of
18:15
Charleston. I don't want to air any of these materials without being able to
18:18
preview him for first. Unfortunately, the gentleman that took my offer to go
18:22
to the game last night, he seems like a super nice guy, and
18:25
never I don't know anything about him, so I'm assuming everything he sent me
18:27
is probably okay to air on the radio. But I don't want to do
18:30
it without previewing it first. But we have a lot of stuff here,
18:33
he said, a bunch of different movies, clips of the glamour and stuff
18:37
they had around the stadium with day La Cruz's debut last night. All of
18:41
his at bats are in here, and he stayed till the end of the
18:42
game, so there's some highlights for the end of the game as well.
18:45
Of course he won't be able to hear anything, just the crowd reaction,
18:48
but there's some good stuff. I'll share that along social media today. But
18:51
as a Reds fan and as a station that's carried the Reds for a long
18:53
time, it does us a service to talk about this just a little bit,
18:56
because it's not every day that a prospect and he may not be the
19:00
number one overall prospect by the MLB pipeline with I think ESPN recently re ranked
19:06
Elie de la Cruz as the number one overall prospect. But I don't know
19:08
that any player in any organization has had more buzz about him this year than
19:12
Elie de la Cruz for the Reds. Any debuted last night, Yeah,
19:15
yeah, Elie de la Cruz. He played third base last night for the
19:19
Reds. He batted fourth. Just in this age of social media, you've
19:25
known more about this prospect, and really they're all you know, prospects in
19:30
the minor leagues and for all teams. I mean, there's so much access
19:33
now right, you can see him playing. And this is a guy who's
19:37
playing in single A last year. Incredible, he's twenty one years old.
19:42
Right, last night, he takes a walk, first at bat, first
19:47
at bat, takes a walk and didn't swing any low pitches, which was
19:49
his big at the beginning of the season. So they told him, you
19:53
need to quit swinging at low pitches. And so he's done that. Now
19:56
he's gonna strike out. He's gonna be like other major league plays. You
19:59
go three for ten and in your career three for ten and you get in
20:02
the Hall of Fame, right, you know, most of the time.
20:03
So but anyway, so then last night and his second hit or second that
20:07
bad he get he right, he rifles one to write center field, a
20:14
high fastball. He's six five, so a high fastball. The exit v
20:19
low velocity was harder than any Reds hit this year. Already. Already he
20:26
went to second base. Okay, one hundred and eighty feet seven point four
20:33
seconds, which you know they track all this stuff, which was in the
20:36
ninety nine percent tile of any runner in baseball this year. How quick they
20:41
got the second and already the fastest were the Reds one game, one game
20:45
and he's the double. He hit too hard. It would have been a
20:48
home run if he would have hit it a little like with more trajectory.
20:52
I mean, he mashed that thing. And then he had a nice play
20:53
at third base where he beat a runner with a nice throw. Also in
21:00
and minor league baseball had the hardest throne enfield across the diamond throw this year.
21:04
So his enfield arm is incredible. He had the hardest hit ball in
21:10
all of baseball from the left and the right side of the plate through almost
21:14
one hundred miles per hour across the enfield and runs as fast as Billy Hamilton.
21:18
Yeah and so, and he's he's and he's built like Randy Moss.
21:22
Now, how important is this for the Reds as far as fans go or
21:25
at tennis goes. They had twenty two thousand people there last night. Okay,
21:27
so they're Tuesday night games this year have averaged twelve thousand. You listen
21:32
to this, You listen to the game last night? Yeah, what's you
21:33
here? When he got to the plate. Oh yes, when's the last
21:34
time you heard that? Oh? Yes, so last time you heard that?
21:37
In its baseball? Baseball's hard, right, ask Alec Minoah, for
21:42
sure, baseball. He's in developmental league, right. They sent him all
21:45
the way down. I think got a little bit of track. I didn't
21:48
know they had done that with Roy Holliday. Upon a time, they did
21:52
that with Roy Holliday and at works, So maybe they're hoping they you know,
21:56
he came back on one side Young's and pitched no hitters and you know,
22:00
but anyway, baseball is hard, so you know he's not gonna get
22:04
a hit every time. But what he has given is and I think people
22:08
are starting to see, Yeah, the Reds have a little bit of a
22:11
plan here now where they can they execute it will turn into victories, will
22:15
turn in to something. At least it gives some excitement. And then the
22:18
other rookie, Matt McClean, who's been lights out in twenty games, He's
22:22
got like, what twelve multi hit games. He's literally their best player already.
22:26
I mean he's probably the best player on the team already. Yeah,
22:29
so he he gets a hit last night to and this is a scrappy team.
22:33
Now there's a lot of excitement over a team that's still five games below
22:37
five hundred, which is really interesting, it is, right, but it's
22:41
a team that wins without the home run. Yeah yeah, yeah they yet
22:47
okay yet in Canasia and Strand comes up another player. But but this team
22:52
currently wins without the home run. It's kind of nice to see. Yeah,
22:56
it's kind of interesting to see a little bit small. Yeah, it
22:57
reminds me of that team a little bit that they filled it before the Griffy
23:02
trade. Yeah, that team ran a lot and you know, they hit
23:04
some home runs, but out a ton. They weren't mashers. They ran
23:07
a lot and doubles team. Really, you know a lot of one guy
23:10
who hit home runs right right, That was Greg Vaughn, Greg Vaughn,
23:14
Greg Vaughn with the masher in the middle. But the rest of those guys
23:15
were one bass guys and got hit. So exactly was Dmitri Young I think
23:21
was here run back then? Yeah, they had those guys. So it's
23:22
it's interesting time for a red because you got um you obviously got McClean who's
23:27
already up and playing extraordinarily. Well, he settled down the enfield already,
23:30
So I mean they're better defensively already too. Now you got Dela Cruz coming
23:33
up playing third base. Who I mean, he hit a missile last night
23:37
already, it's only a matter of time to this guy gets one out of
23:40
the park. And then, like you said, they got in kurd Nacy
23:41
on strand and they had Abbott, who was another top prospect, one of
23:45
their pitchers, who just stepped in the other night and threw a six inning
23:48
two hitter or whatever it was. I mean, it's nice to be excited
23:52
as a Red Fans fan, that's all I'll say. Who knows what's going
23:55
to happen. Not all these guys are going to be world beaters, but
23:57
some of them were going to end being pretty good. Yeah, And they're
24:00
young, and there's excitement, and they're young, you know, and so
24:04
it's yeah, there's a lot of excitement. And they play the Dodgers again
24:07
tonight or actually this afternoon is this all? This is Wednesday? I'm sorry,
24:12
tomorrow afternoon, tomorrow afternoon. Yeah, that's right, it is the
24:15
Dodgers, and they like the Dodgers like they're line up and people can't.
24:18
Oh my goodness. Yeah, all these guys coming up. All these guys
24:22
are so good. Freddy Freeman, I mean, the Dodgers are so good.
24:26
I know, I know Freeman at that grand same last night, but
24:27
Breds came back back in one. So tonight at seven you can hear at
24:32
Ellida the cruise and game number two. And then tomorrow afternoon on ESPN fourteen
24:37
ninety and one of six point seven will have the afternoon get away game for
24:40
the Reds and the Dodgers. Yea, I appreciate you. Go ahead.
24:41
I'm sorry to say someone said, you know that, someone said they're planning
24:45
on going over. They don't send him down and said they're not sending him
24:48
anywhere. No, there will be a revolt. There will be a revolt.
24:51
No, no, no, no, no, no, he's up
24:52
once they bring him up. He's up now. There's no there's no,
24:56
there's no guests about that hundred games. He's got a hundred games. Sounds
24:59
good man, appreciate a Jeff Icture's I'm Jeff Jenkins from the WCHS radio newsroom.
25:03
We need to take a break. We'll come back and I want to
25:03
have Jeff Meyers joining. We want to talk a little bit about some of
25:07
these age verification laws and Section two thirty as it pertains to the Internet and
25:10
online privacy. We'll be back after this. You're listening to five eighty Love,
25:15
which has brought to you in part by Valley Outdoors. Nobody has a
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bigger and better selection of guns and all kinds than Glenn Yeager and Valley Outdoors.
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Visit the shop when Mountain Vernon Road in Tay's Valley or at Valley Outdoors
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dot com. We'll be back after this. I'm Del Cooper. This is
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two two two twenty five minutes at the top of the aria listening to five
27:48
eighty Live WCHS the Points Charleston. I'm del Cooper. Guess I seeing for
27:52
Dave Allen for two days. Today and tomorrow are my days in the chair
27:56
in the morning show. Day will be back on Friday, and then I
28:00
haven't proved another day off for him for like next year or something, so
28:03
you should be stuck with Dave Allen for the rest of the foreseeable future.
28:07
But I appreciate you tuning in this morning to five eighty Live, and I'd
28:11
like to bring you a little varied show when we have the opportunity to do
28:14
this, and I'll have the opportunity to talk about things that I'm a little
28:18
interested in, and I think that we need to be educated in together,
28:22
and that's what I hope to do this morning. I'd like to bring on
28:25
our special guest for this morning. It's Jess Meyers. She is a Legal
28:27
Advacy Council at the Chamber of Progress. Jess joined the Chamber of Progress from
28:30
Google, where she was the senior Government Affairs and Public Policy Analyst. She
28:34
has widely considered an expert on US intermediary liability law and has written, spoken,
28:38
and taught extensively about such topics such as speech, the age verification issues
28:44
that we're going to get into this morning section to thirty, which we're going
28:45
to touch on just a little bit. Jess Meyers joins us this morning from
28:49
California. Jess, good morning. How you doing this morning? Hey,
28:52
thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to be on this show.
28:56
Man. I appreciate you being with us. And I didn't realize until
28:57
I was reading some more about you last night that you're coming to us.
29:00
I think from the West coast, so it's very early there. Thank you
29:03
so much. Absolutely, I mean I work on with these kinds of issues.
29:07
I work on DC time, East Coast. Not too bad. Well,
29:11
I appreciate you taking some time out and talking about this a little bit
29:15
today. Take just a moment to introduce yourself, if you don't mind,
29:18
to our audience so they get to know you just a little bit, and
29:21
then that we'll dive right in. Yeah. Absolutely, so, as you
29:25
nicely put it, I am just Meyers. I am a legal advocacy councilate
29:29
Chamber of Progress, and I've been studying these social media Internet law First Amendment
29:33
type issues for about five years now, so super excited to dig into it
29:38
and explore what these issues mean for users online today. So I've kind of
29:44
broken this into two differents, and there's so many things that we could talk
29:45
about. There's the new There's all kinds of things that we can talk about,
29:49
but I have to keep the scope relatively narrow, even in the twenty
29:52
five minutes or so, that we have to make sure that we can give
29:56
them some proper, some proper vetting. But we're gonna talk about two things
29:59
this morning. There's this new sort of rash of age verification laws with social
30:03
media that's been going into effect or proposed around the country. We've had some
30:07
movement in California, Utah, Louisiana recently, there was some Connecticut news that's
30:11
that that got that got watered down to us a little bit. But some
30:15
of these things can be kind of concerning. I want you to help walk
30:18
us through that. And they want to talk about Section two thirty. It
30:21
seems like since um kind of the transition of power at Twitter, this has
30:23
kind of fallen a little less uh frothy in the in the national media.
30:30
But attacks on Section two thirty and trying to redefine it or trying to define
30:33
in a certain way is still something that we should be cognizant us. We're
30:36
going to talk about that a little bit later on too, but let's let's
30:40
start with the age verification bills. These are relatively recent things that have been
30:42
coming on. It kind of comes in hand in hand with like kind of
30:45
the techtok panic and different things along those lines. But can you kind of
30:48
explain just from from a broad standpoint what it is that some of these age
30:52
verification bills are aiming for. Yeah, so this is a common theme that
30:59
we've been seeing throughout the US this year that actually started over in the UK.
31:03
For a lot of these bills, what you're going to see are restrictions
31:07
that require internet services to verify the ages of any and all users that use
31:12
their site. And that may be so that the website has to provide a
31:17
quote unquote age appropriate version of their service depending on the age of the user,
31:22
or as we're seeing in Utah, for example, it may be that
31:26
the website has to provide parents with the option to give parental content before the
31:32
website can create an account for a user under the age of a team.
31:36
So in California, they've recently had the Age Appropriate Design Code in California that
31:41
imposes age verification on tech companies, and it seems like that what offered,
31:47
at least casually anyway people talking about this, it's like, well, anything
31:48
we can do to keep the kids away from the danger online is a good
31:52
thing to do. And that's sort of just the top line discussion, and
31:55
not a lot of people are going much deeper than that. But laws like
31:59
this, like the Age of Propriate Design Code, that can affect both minor
32:01
and adult users online, and there's a real issue with privacy as it's attached
32:05
to this. Yeah, absolutely, So the problem with age verification laws,
32:10
as well intended as they may be, we'll kind of focus on the one
32:14
that was enacted first, which is in California, is that when you require
32:17
these websites to check the age of minors, you endanger the privacy of all
32:22
users, not just kids. So in order to verify these ages, these
32:25
websites would need to collect personal information that they don't already have, which is
32:30
sort of the irony of these laws. You're you're forcing these internet companies to
32:35
collect more information about you know, either yourself or your kids. Now that
32:38
information could be like a government ID or could be a facial scan, which
32:44
is again these were these laws first cropped ups. Either way, you're you
32:50
know, requiring a platform to collect that data means that that data is now
32:54
going to exist in some form online that could be susceptible to abuse. Yeah,
32:59
it seems amazing to me that, at least obstensibly, these things are
33:02
are being related as as safety, as protecting children, protecting yet protecting prophecy.
33:09
Yet we're giving companies that we supposedly don't trust all that much even more
33:14
of our data that can potentially be breached or some other way abused. It
33:19
seems kind of a backwards way to approach this type of thing from from a
33:22
policy standpoint. Absolutely, And you know what's what's sort of wild about these
33:28
bills as well, is that, again they're intended to put the parents in
33:30
the front seat for these websites, but it's really putting the parents in the
33:34
backseat here. It's the government deciding what is appropriate for these kids and what
33:38
they're interacting with online, under the guise of giving the parents some control and
33:44
this assumes that parents have no agency at all over their kids anymore. It's
33:46
what it seems like that that you can't limit what your kids do, and
33:50
there might be some limits to that, but there's always been limits to what
33:52
we could control for our children to do. It seems like trying to legislate
33:57
all that could be a problem. Utah has a little different tax that they've
34:00
taken towards this thing, and really it not only starts to infringe it at
34:04
some point when data and possibly privacy, but also there's an expression and speech
34:08
issues that are involved, right exactly. And it's super important to keep in
34:14
mind as well that you know, first of all, kids do have First
34:16
Amendment rights when it comes to the sense that they consume. We've seen that
34:21
in the courts before. But also keep in mind that for all of these
34:23
age verification builds, you can't just that the websites have to know how old
34:28
the user is, and so it's not just going to scan the kids,
34:30
it's going to scam all of us as well, and for those of us
34:34
adults that don't want to give over this personally identifying information to these companies just
34:38
to access legally protected speech. We now may be prohibited from being able to
34:43
access information as well that I mean, it season so backward, and one
34:45
of the concerns that I have, and I don't know you would you would
34:50
be able to answer this much. But one of the fears that I have
34:51
on something like this is is these companies already collect so much data force a
34:54
lot of this data they package up and resell, you know, I mean,
34:57
we're so worried about the Chinese government will get the TikTok data. Where
35:01
our government can get data just by buying it from from third party vendors a
35:05
lot of times that scrape it from from social media. Where's the barrier at
35:08
for something like this if you start getting this extra data in I mean,
35:13
I'm sure that it's not supposed to be packaged in with with the marketing data
35:16
and things like that, But how do you know for sure? That's absolutely
35:21
the concern here. Um. You know, these companies they either best just
35:25
from experience in order to ensure that the privacy is protected of their users,
35:30
especially when it comes to government actors trying to get access to that information.
35:35
But it's a technologically difficult problem. These laws, of course, you know,
35:38
put in restrictions that tell these companies that, um, they have to
35:43
be careful, they have to they have to enact certain privacy compliance plans for
35:47
these for this extra data that they're taking in. But that doesn't stop the
35:51
fact that there are malicious actors out there that can hack these services, that
35:54
can acquire the information during transit um and it doesn't stop government actors from subpoenaing
36:00
subpoenaing these these companies as well, now that these government actors know that that
36:04
sort of information is being collected by the tech companies too. So it is
36:08
it is absolutely a concern from all angles. And I know that there's been
36:12
some modifications to this over the year, but over the years, but I
36:15
can't help but going back to the to the when when the Patriot Act era
36:19
was first coming about and there was you know, the fear about about terrorism
36:22
and trying to h and to try to determine if there was any future attacks
36:29
or to try to protect against that in some ways, and there was a
36:31
lot of our prophecy that was kind of co opted when it came to that
36:37
sort of thing that it seems like since then, But you know, I
36:38
think that there was some data that was driven for the like the National Security
36:42
letters and so forth, which isn't the same type of thing, of course,
36:45
but those were supposed to have oversight. There were supposed to be a
36:46
panel that would review these things to see if they would get approved to to
36:51
subpoena certain types of information through through these NSLs. And it was almost one
36:54
hundred percent. It was basically a rubber stamp more or less. And that's
36:58
the type of thing that I worry about. Yeah, sure, there's these
37:00
protections in places, who the governs not swis bill it get these things,
37:01
YadA, YadA YadA. But at the bottom line is how often are people
37:05
really going to push back against them, because it seems like often enough these
37:08
things become rubber stamps, right exactly. And keep in mind too, you
37:13
know, similar to how terrorism back in the you know, back during the
37:16
Patriot Act days was almost sort of used as a pretext enabled in order for
37:22
the government to abridge our rights when it comes to privacy and other issues.
37:27
Here we're seeing kids being used as that pretext. Right, So the government
37:30
is using, you know, this, this idea that websites are harming our
37:34
children, that parents don't have any control over what their kids are consuming as
37:37
a means now to abridge our First Amendment rights and even our Fourth Amendment rights
37:42
as well when it comes to, you know, some of these surveillance mechanisms
37:45
that they're forcing upon the Internet company. Fourth Amendment is something that as a
37:51
company, as a country, I feel like we really need to have a
37:53
moment to revisit because we've let a lot of our privacy slipped through the cracks
37:59
in the in the modern age. I feel like that's something that we should
38:01
really examine at some point in time, give as much thought to that as
38:05
maybe the second in the First Amendment from time to time, because our prophecy
38:07
is pretty exposed in a lot of situations right now, absolutely, especially with
38:13
you know these government actors, and you know remembers as well that with a
38:17
lot of these laws that impose these sort of surveillance mechanisms, the government can
38:23
use them to the extent that works best for them. So for we'll talk
38:28
about it later with two thirty, but there are laws right now that or
38:30
there are proposals right now to have Internet companies basically turn off and end encryption
38:37
that would allow government actors and law enforcement to be able to get access information
38:40
they may not have been able to with end to end encryption. So absolutely
38:45
agree. And then we talked about the Utah law, and there's one in
38:50
Louisiana too, And again you can we kind of create, as you alluded
38:53
to, and I'll use this as modeling, which is not yours, but
38:54
we kind of create this moral panic around how website, social media and everything's
38:59
going to destroy your kids. And not that there's not a nuanced discussion that
39:01
needs to be had and there for responsible use and things like that. I'm
39:04
not saying there's not, but the panic that gets created that leads to reactionary
39:08
policies sort of like this, in my opinion, is where a lot of
39:13
bad ideas come from and get to kind of codified into law Utah and Louisiana,
39:17
for example. A lot of it has to do with pornography, and
39:21
you might think that again you're like, well, I mean, if you
39:22
can separate children from pornography, that's got to be a great thing. But
39:25
again we're getting to issues when it comes to First Amendment rights and these privacy
39:30
these privacy issues, it's almost like it's almost like a trojan horse to some
39:35
example. It's like, we're going to protect you against pornography, but we're
39:37
going to have all this data about your kids and things as well. It
39:40
should be an uncomfortable, unsettling feeling I feel for people out there that are
39:45
looking at these things right exactly. You know, again, adults have a
39:49
First Amendment right in this country to access and receive legally protected speech, and
39:52
courts have long held that pornography is in fact protected speech that the government cannot
39:59
put to guard rail or barriers in place because it would reach you know,
40:01
for kids, because it would reach adult access. You know, the courts
40:07
have also long held that the laws designed for kids that also reach adult access
40:10
information are indeed unconstitutional under the First Amendment. So you've got the situation where
40:15
you know, an adult user who wants to view pornography, you know,
40:19
surprise, surprise, does not want to also give up their face biometrics to
40:23
you know, that pornography company that could be later accessed by the government,
40:27
or doesn't want to have to acquire a porn license from the government itself.
40:31
I mean, just think about that for a minute. If you start going
40:35
down that rabbit hole, that's that's really a frightening So Finally, just kind
40:37
of your opinion, because there are issues that are available online, there are
40:42
potentials of harm and different things along different things along those lines, Is there
40:45
any changes or adaptations that you would recommend or that you think that we could
40:49
do that would protect individual rights while ensuring a mind or safety online. So
40:54
when it comes to the kids online safety, these internet companies are continuing to
40:59
make tremendos the strides and providing features and tools for parents to monitor and control
41:02
their children's online experiences. And that is not something that necessarily demands government interference
41:08
or oversight. Again, it's about giving that control to the parents, and
41:12
we are seeing those tools come to fruition with social media sets today. Now,
41:15
one thing that the federal government could do to effectively preserve our rights is
41:20
actually just to enact comprehensive federal privacy legislation that both ensures our privacy is protected
41:27
online, but that also preempts and replaces all of these convoluted, conflicting and
41:32
incredibly unconstitutional state laws as well. You know, we've folks have been advocating
41:38
for federal comprehensive federal privacy for decades now, and the government has not been
41:44
able to get there yet, But there seems to be, you know,
41:46
a mutual agreement that that is necessary in this country at the moment. Going
41:51
back to your points about you know, revisiting the Fourth Amendment for example,
41:53
for modern tax I think that's great information. This is something we need to
41:58
keep our one fear that this is something that would be attractive through our legislature
42:01
here. Just to be completely honest with you, it seems like the type
42:04
of thing that, tapping into a certain moment that we're in right now,
42:07
that would be very popular here. I just cautioned strongly against this because this
42:10
could lead to some pretty dark things in my opinion anyway. And Jess Myers
42:15
is with us, of course, from the legal che's at Legal Advocacy Council
42:17
for the Chamber of Progress, an expert in this field, and is educating
42:22
us on these age verification bills that have been rolled out across the country.
42:25
Jess, I think that you said that you're available to hang on with me.
42:28
You're a little bit longer. Can you hold on through the break?
42:30
We'll come back and talk a little bit about Section two thirty as well.
42:32
Absolutely my favorite topic. Yeah, I know, and we're only going to
42:36
have sex or seven minutes to get into it, but at least we'll get
42:37
be able to deploy some of that so we'll get as much in as we
42:40
can. That's Jess Myers. It's joining me our special guests this morning.
42:44
We need to go ahead and take a break on five ety Live, which
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is presented in part by Travis Willard. You're Edward Jones Financial Advisor, just
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group or areas most Beautiful Properties Deserve the finest Rillers mex Reality Group. Visit
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online Meeks dot us or call three zero four four four zero one one zero
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one. I'm del Cooper. You're listening to five eighty Live. Special guest
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this morning is Jess Meyers. She's legal AVACA Council for the Chamber of Progress,
45:38
talking about online prophecy and expression. We're gonna talk about section two thirty
45:44
right now, and Jess, I have to admit last night I fell asleep
45:46
listening to one of a previous interview that you had done, and the question
45:52
that that host asked, I think, because we're kind of limited on time
45:53
here, really teed you up for a pretty good presentation on two thirty in
45:58
your thoughts on it. So I'm got to ask you this question and relationship
46:01
to two thirty, how does the broader spirit of free speech and expression intersect
46:05
with the roles of private entities like social media platforms and governmental regulations beyond the
46:08
direct purview of the First Amendment. And why is free expression so important?
46:14
How does two thirty help with it? Yeah, so you know, social
46:17
media platforms, they operate very similarly to the offline private actors we regularly associate
46:23
free speech and expression principles with, such as, for example, this radio
46:27
station or the Washington Post or the New York Times. And like their offline
46:31
counterparts, these social media companies have a right to decide what messages are conveyed
46:36
to their audiences, and US users have a right to receive those messages as
46:39
well. So that's sort of an important communication balance that we see developing online.
46:45
Government actors, as we've discussed, are not permitted to abridge these rights,
46:50
whether the communication platform is a traditional offline newspaper that we know and love
46:54
or social media website. And what Section two thirty does is it says that
46:58
these websites and users are not responsible for the content that they don't create,
47:01
which then operates as a spast lane for the First Amendment. It empowers these
47:07
internet services to continue hosting the content that US users create and share worldwide throughout
47:13
the internet. But briefly, in a world without those protections, what would
47:19
that mean, for example, a social media side with their comments or something
47:23
like that. What is the reverse of this, Like, what's the worst
47:27
case scenario without these types of protections. Yeah, and we don't have to
47:30
you know, predict anything because we see it outside of the US. The
47:34
US is only place or receive Section two thirty. And so what it looks
47:37
like without having these protections in place, are these Internet services have to make
47:40
incredibly difficult decisions about the kind of content that they choose to host online.
47:45
So you know, for example, if there are laws around the types of
47:51
hate speech material for example, you know, outside of the US, then
47:54
the internet services made ought to turn off more commune unication features. They may
48:00
opt to not host specific users and specific kinds of speech, which eventually leads
48:06
to um broadly censorship for example. Yeah, and that just sounds absolutely die
48:12
Or my next question, I want to kind of roll into a couple of
48:15
different things that it's important for social media companies and white companies to have editorial
48:20
discretion for what they published on their sites. But also there's something that that's
48:24
called must carry, and must carry is something that is also potentially problematic right,
48:31
so must carry laws would force websites to host all kinds of legal speech,
48:36
including now you know, including speech that websites or the online community may
48:39
actually find personally harmful, reprehensible, or even just irrelevant. Remember, lots
48:45
and lots of speech is protected by the First Amendment, including pornography for example.
48:49
So it puts online communities in this tricky spot. They could either host
48:52
everything and that may turn their communities into sasspols or make them incredibly irrelevant,
48:59
or they could just cut their losses and avoid any brand risks entirely and just
49:02
exit the market or turn off those communication features that allow us to interact.
49:07
Either way, these websites sort of lose out under a muskcarry regime. And
49:13
just to see if I can wrap my mind around it, So if you
49:15
if you took that, you know, there was a lot of talk,
49:17
especially at the end of last year, you know, a pure free speech
49:20
or a free speech absolutism or something along those lines. That literally means even
49:23
as a private company, and a lot of people think that they support this,
49:28
I don't know that they actually do, but that wouldn't mean even a
49:30
private company could not say that we're not hosting that information, We're we're not
49:35
going to propagate that information, we're not going to share that information that that
49:37
would suddenly become something they were not allowed to do and from somebody that works
49:43
that sounds terrible. Yeah, No, that's exactly right, and that's sort
49:46
of the core of it too. Is Again, we talk about these First
49:49
Amendment absolute as I consider myself one as well. Um, but you know,
49:53
in the offline world, we would find it absolutely absurd that the government
49:58
is telling the New York Times or Fox News what kinds of information they can
50:01
host or who they can have on their platforms. But then when we apply
50:05
the exact same principles that we apply to those private publishers to online services,
50:09
it's sort of those principles of absolutism go out the window. We want to
50:13
now start having the government's force internet companies to carry information that the government deems
50:17
to be acceptable. It's absolutely backwards. Yeah, that that just doesn't make
50:22
a lot of sense to me. I'm glad that we're able to talk about
50:23
this just a little bit today, although maybe I should have reversed the topics
50:27
because two thirty is such a such a major it's really what enables the United
50:32
States, as far as social media and online companies like that, to function
50:35
the way that it does within the world of free expression. Is there any
50:38
reformation in the modern world that's needed to two thirty? Not to gut it
50:43
like a lot of people are are suggesting, but is there anything that you
50:46
could see that would be a modern progression that would be useful or is it
50:52
interpreting the way it is? Is that going to work for us? So
50:54
in the same way that I consider myself as first and them and absolutists,
50:58
I naturally also consider myself two thirty absolute is and in that regard I do
51:01
not see those any sorts of changes. You know, it's important remember that
51:07
two thirty is just a procedural law that operates as a fast leg for the
51:10
First Amendment. It doesn't grant any extra speech rights, for example, so
51:15
any change to section two thirty would still have to reckon with the extensive speech
51:19
protections guaranteed under our First Amendment, and there are likely no changes to section
51:23
two thirty that do this, as any such changes would likely reach legally protective
51:28
speech under the First Amendment. That's Jess Myers joining us, and unfortunately we're
51:31
running out of time. I've got a hard break at the top of the
51:34
hour here. I could talk about this literally for another hour. Maybe we'll
51:36
revisit this and also like a little bit of how two thirty being better than
51:39
the First Amendment. I was reading a little bit of that last night and
51:43
that would be an interesting discussion to get into. But Jess Myers from the
51:45
Chamber of Progress, thank you so much for your time this morning. I
51:47
appreciate you coming on the ear with us. Thanks so much for having me.
51:51
I appreciate it absolutely. We'll follow up again at another time. That's
51:53
Jess Meyers joining us. Thank you for being one. She's the legal Advacy
51:57
counsel for the Chamber of Progress and an expert on UH on online issues,
52:01
UH on privacy and with UH with one the age verification, sex Section two
52:07
thirty, free expression, and the First Amendment. That's going to do it
52:09
for us today. Thanks for tuning in. Tomorrow's Senator Shelley Moore, Capita
52:14
will be my guest to kick off the hour, and we're going to talk
52:15
a little bit more about about small press and press Freedoms tomorrow as well.
52:20
I'm Del Cooper. You're listening to five eighty live. Hubby Kerstible was up
52:22
next after the national news. Have a good day everyone, w c hs
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