Latest / Rusty's Garage / Jenson Button - Part 2

Transcript

Jenson Button - Part 2 · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:21
  G'day, it's Rusty here, all set for part two of my podcast with Jenson Button, a racer with a real love of cars who chalked up 306 starts at the very highest level and famously won the F1 Drivers title in 2009 by beating the establishment in a car that on paper shouldn't have been a contender.
• 0:43
  Now, if you have somehow arrived here and not heard part one, jump back to the Rusty's Garage Library and give it a listen.
• 0:50
  From a scary moment on the driveway as a youngster to success in carts, the pressure-filled break in Formula One, hard lessons on the commitment required and a special moment of motivation from his late dad that Jensen never forgot.
• 1:06
  we pick up the conversation around the first running of the BGP 001.
• 1:11
  Against the odds, Braun GP were going to come off the blocks and impress.
• 1:17
  You talked about the poll in Melbourne for Braun and the conversation with Ron Dennis.
• 1:22
  Just to peel it back, one little fraction, you guys made the last test at Barcelona and it all kind of hurriedly come together.
• 1:31
  But there is a great moment where Andrew Shovlin...
• 1:34
  looks at you with kind of like a telling smile after your initial lapse.
• 1:38
  And that was a little bit of a moment of realisation that despite how this had all been not cobbled together, that's not the right word, but the lateness of it, that it had some magic, Jensen, didn't it?
• 1:49
  It did.
• 1:49
  And we did have a massive spacer between the engine and the car because it wasn't made to have a Mercedes engine.
• 1:57
  So it was a big spacer that
• 2:00
  The engine was at the wrong light.
• 2:01
  It was a bit higher than it should have been, so it wasn't the perfect CFG.
• 2:06
  So yeah, to get out on track of our first test, we ran some old tires.
• 2:09
  Initially, the one that we used for the shakedown.
• 2:13
  And tires, F1 tires, don't normally like going through a cycle and being left for a long period of time.
• 2:18
  So we went out on track, and I think we were...
• 2:22
  sort of three or four tenths quicker than anyone at that moment.
• 2:25
  And I came in and Shove came in, you know, crouched down to the cockpit and looked at me and smiled.
• 2:31
  How was it?
• 2:31
  And I'm like, well, it's not great.
• 2:34
  You know, I've got understeer here, I've got oversteer here, and the balance isn't quite there.
• 2:38
  But I said, it's probably just the tires.
• 2:40
  You're quickest.
• 2:41
  You know, these guys have had two big tests of three days, I think, and you've just gone out and gone quickest.
• 2:48
  I was like, oh, okay.
• 2:50
  So put some new tires on it, made a couple of adjustments, and went out, and I think we were over a second quicker than anyone, and suddenly the car came alive.
• 3:00
  So it's funny, though.
• 3:02
  You might have the quickest car out there, but there's always things that you want to tweak.
• 3:05
  It's never perfect.
• 3:06
  So we did some more tweaking, filled it up with fuel, because we didn't want to look too fast.
• 3:13
  And from what I heard, all the other teams were looking at our lap time and trying to work out, you know, if we took all the fuel out and we took all the ballast out, would it be as quick as them?
• 3:25
  And they're like, no, actually, we wouldn't.
• 3:26
  So, you know, that is true.
• 3:28
  They initially thought running zero fuel, no ballast.
• 3:32
  But still, they couldn't do our lap time.
• 3:34
  So, yeah, it was definitely a weapon.
• 3:38
  This is just when we did the lap time and then all the mechanics disappeared.
• 3:41
  So, where's everyone going?
• 3:42
  And they're all outside putting bets on.
• 3:50
  Nice, bright, smiley faces.
• 3:51
  It's a people game, as you know.
• 3:53
  It's your contribution.
• 3:54
  It's the management's contribution.
• 3:56
  It's the engineer's contribution.
• 3:57
  And you got to work, we just talked there about shove, with some good people because Bono, Pete Bonington, who works nowadays with Lewis Hamilton, is another one that you've had time with.
• 4:08
  There are some seriously good operators in that area.
• 4:11
  Pit line, aren't they?
• 4:12
  Yeah, I mean, Shove and Bono were my engineers.
• 4:15
  So Shove was my engine engineer.
• 4:17
  Sorry, he was my engineer.
• 4:20
  And then Bono was my data engineer.
• 4:24
  And they were both great to work with.
• 4:26
  And this is when I was at Honda and then Braun.
• 4:31
  And I had such a close relationship with them, especially Shove.
• 4:36
  Really good understanding.
• 4:39
  He had a really good understanding of my...
• 4:42
  opinions of the car it's always it's always tricky initially when you jump into a team when you work with a new engineer because you use different words to explain different things and it's not like other sports where your engineer or the the person that you work closely with you know they've they've probably been through what you've been you know like a 100 meter runner you might work with a coach that's
• 5:02
  Well, he's definitely run before, and he's probably run the 100 meters pretty competitively before.
• 5:07
  Whereas with an F1 engineer, they've never driven an F1 car.
• 5:11
  Most of them have never driven a racing car full stop.
• 5:14
  So you need a certain language for them to understand what the car is doing.
• 5:21
  and how you wanted to feel.
• 5:23
  They jump in the simulator now and again and they spin off at turn one.
• 5:27
  They don't have that feeling.
• 5:30
  So yeah, you need a very good relationship and a good understanding, a good language between yourself and your engineer.
• 5:36
  And he got me immediately, which really
• 5:39
  It meant the world to me and we had a very good relationship, very emotional relationship as well, to go through what we did and to come out the other side.
• 5:46
  Now Shub is, I don't know his title, chief engineer at Mercedes now and Bono's, Lewis is engineer and probably had more wins than any engineer in the sport.
• 5:58
  Agreed.
• 5:59
  Hey, you go on an incredible winning streak.
• 6:01
  You win something like seven straight, I think it is, with the benefit of time.
• 6:06
  What was the pressure like in dealing with that, with backing up to do it again?
• 6:10
  And, you know, okay, you're coming in with a bit of confidence with the speed of the car and so on.
• 6:14
  But is it the kind of thing where you're looking over your shoulder all the time?
• 6:17
  Yeah, you are.
• 6:17
  I mean, first race, we had the best car.
• 6:19
  You know, I'm not going to say otherwise, but still,
• 6:25
  there was an opportunity for other teams to win.
• 6:27
  You know, we went for a strategy that we thought was kind of safe.
• 6:30
  The last stint of the race, you had Kubica, you had Vettel chasing me down at a fast rate to knots.
• 6:38
  And if they didn't crash into each other, they would have been on the back of me before the end of the race.
• 6:42
  So we might not have won that first race.
• 6:44
  Mm-hmm.
• 6:45
  Second race, same.
• 6:49
  We won, but it wasn't like we ran away with it.
• 6:52
  There were still chinks in our armor because we hadn't practiced pit stops.
• 6:56
  We were so far off when it came to pit stops.
• 6:58
  We were kind of losing eight seconds, I think it was, every pit stop in Melbourne.
• 7:03
  Because our fueling guy had become a plumber because he was let go by the team.
• 7:10
  I think half the people were let go by the team because they couldn't afford to pay them.
• 7:15
  And he became a plumber.
• 7:16
  So the first race was a guy that hadn't been on the fuel loads before and was a long way off.
• 7:21
  So they called up the guy that was the plumber and said, can you come back for the second race, which is in Malaysia?
• 7:28
  And he said, OK, I'll make it for the weekend.
• 7:31
  And he came for the weekend to do the refueling.
• 7:35
  And again, you know, Malaysia, the second race, it shut it down with rain and half the cars fell off.
• 7:40
  We luckily stayed on and I won the race, but it could have easily gone another way.
• 7:45
  Third race, wet in Shanghai.
• 7:47
  We didn't have the pace in the wets, finished third.
• 7:50
  And then the fourth race didn't qualify on pole, Bahrain.
• 7:54
  We were qualified third or fourth, but made the moves necessary in the first stint to make the win happen.
• 8:00
  And then Barcelona, that was pretty much an easy race for us.
• 8:05
  And then Monaco, and then we had Turkey as well, where I was running in second, and Vettel made a mistake and we took the win.
• 8:11
  So it wasn't like we were a second quicker than everyone.
• 8:14
  We had a great car, but people were able to...
• 8:19
  be as competitive because of the way they went racing and also because of the way they were able to develop their car.
• 8:24
  We didn't have the money to develop our car.
• 8:26
  It was...
• 8:27
  what it was and we didn't really develop.
• 8:29
  I think we had one change, which was the front wing through the year, whereas everyone was throwing millions at developing it and they had to initially because they didn't have a double diffuser like us, Toyota and Williams.
• 8:41
  So yeah, it was tough because I felt massively under pressure, I put myself under a lot of pressure thinking this is it, this is the moment.
• 8:51
  I don't know if it's ever gonna happen again.
• 8:53
  You don't know.
• 8:54
  in motorsport and in Formula 1.
• 8:56
  We're not a big team, we're not a manufacturer.
• 8:59
  We've got to make this count.
• 9:00
  And every race was so much pressure and not winning was a failure.
• 9:07
  So when we got to the third race and we didn't win, it felt like a massive failure.
• 9:13
  and more and more pressure built every race.
• 9:16
  Then we got to the British Grand Prix, which is the eighth race in the calendar, thinking, yeah, we're going to win in front of the home crowd.
• 9:22
  It's going to be amazing.
• 9:23
  It was terrible.
• 9:24
  Qualified sixth and finished fifth or sixth.
• 9:27
  It couldn't have been any worse.
• 9:29
  I still was never going to drive an F1 car again in anger, but I didn't ever finish on the podium with the British Grand Prix.
• 9:38
  I won the Australian Grand Prix three times, but I never won the British will go on the podium.
• 9:43
  I think that was the same for Mark, wasn't it?
• 9:45
  Mark Webber, he never won in Australia, but he won.
• 9:48
  And yet was on the podium in Britain, yeah, at Silverstone.
• 9:52
  The back end of that year is the pendulum sort of swings with, you know, tyre temp issues and so on.
• 9:58
  It feels like maybe it's going to slip from your grasp.
• 10:02
  What are the discussions like behind the scenes, trying to keep positive, trying to get on top of it, given that you weren't doing the development you talked about?
• 10:08
  Yeah, I mean, I started overdriving, so I wasn't doing a good enough job either.
• 10:12
  You know, Ruben's won two races at the end of the year and I didn't.
• 10:14
  So I didn't have to win races.
• 10:18
  That was the thing.
• 10:19
  You know, I could...
• 10:21
  take less risks, um, finish second to him would have been fine.
• 10:26
  And in, in Monza, I still, it still annoys me that race because, uh, was, was putting more camber into the rears than we were allowed.
• 10:35
  Um, we were limited and Ross limited us because we were, we were worried about tire failures and we were trying to keep it a little bit safe because we had a great car, no point pushing the limits, but they did on their car.
• 10:48
  So, um,
• 10:50
  putting more camber in the rear, when you're laterally loaded apex to exits, you just have better rear grip.
• 10:55
  So you can exit like Parabolica, the Lesmos, you can exit those corners a lot better and carry the speed all the way down the straight.
• 11:03
  So I could see in the race as well, the way Rubens was able to exit the corners.
• 11:07
  And after the race, we looked at the data, we found it.
• 11:11
  And my engineers, they had to say something.
• 11:15
  So they called Ross in and,
• 11:17
  Ross went nuts.
• 11:19
  He was not happy.
• 11:21
  He said, if you guys ever do this again, you know what will happen?
• 11:26
  So, yeah.
• 11:28
  So that was it.
• 11:28
  So it was a frustrating race, but also a good points haul.
• 11:32
  And then it got really, really difficult because
• 11:37
  we just weren't developing.
• 11:39
  And, you know, when you see other cars becoming quicker and quicker every race, it gives those drivers more confidence.
• 11:45
  It takes away the confidence from you.
• 11:48
  And then I got into the mindset of just be consistent, be consistent.
• 11:51
  And that's even worse.
• 11:53
  It's, you know, you can't, you can't think like that.
• 11:55
  You have to go out and try and do your best in every race.
• 11:58
  So I had some tough race, especially in qualifying.
• 12:02
  The race I could make up the positions needed to make the difference.
• 12:07
  And then Brazil happened.
• 12:10
  I was excited about Brazil.
• 12:12
  I loved the track.
• 12:14
  Second to last race of the season, I'm like, you know what?
• 12:17
  I've got to win it here.
• 12:18
  I'm putting so much pressure on myself to succeed.
• 12:20
  If it comes down to the last race, who knows what would happen?
• 12:24
  And then it rained in qualifying.
• 12:26
  I was like, oh, this is good.
• 12:27
  I like the wet and these tricky conditions.
• 12:29
  And we went out in the first part of qualifying.
• 12:33
  and we just went out on the wrong tyre.
• 12:36
  I think we were on the wet, and the Inter was the tyre that worked, and we didn't have time to change, so I qualified 14th.
• 12:45
  Sebastian Vettel, one of my title contenders, qualified 16th in a quicker car, but still, he's behind me, so I'm like, oh, it's not so bad.
• 12:53
  And then my teammate goes and puts it on pole.
• 12:56
  It is home Grand Prix, so it was a tough one.
• 13:01
  mentally and the Brazilian fans let me know how happy they were that Rubens got power and I was so far down.
• 13:08
  I'd go to restaurants and they'd put a ladder outside.
• 13:10
  So I had to walk under it and things like that.
• 13:13
  Yeah, I know.
• 13:14
  And booing me every time I went anywhere.
• 13:16
  Um, and it is what it is.
• 13:19
  It's, it's sport and people are very patriotic, I guess.
• 13:22
  Um, and I remember that evening, Saturday evening of that race, my dad pulled me to one side when we arrived at the hotel, went to the bar actually and had a beer.
• 13:31
  And he just said, son, you haven't forgotten how to drive.
• 13:35
  He said, there's so much pressure on your shoulders, and I get it.
• 13:39
  You know this is such an amazing opportunity to win a world championship.
• 13:43
  He said, but just relax.
• 13:46
  Just remember what it was like in karting when you were at your best.
• 13:49
  He said, go out there, give it your all.
• 13:52
  And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
• 13:54
  But what's the point of getting stressed about it?
• 13:57
  We had sort of a real heart-to-heart, big hug.
• 14:00
  And I was like, you're right.
• 14:01
  And I slept.
• 14:03
  Amazing that evening.
• 14:04
  Might have been the beer, actually.
• 14:07
  And woke up in the morning, just proper hungry.
• 14:09
  You know, couldn't wait to get out to the track.
• 14:12
  I got to the track and walked past Ross, gave him a high five.
• 14:16
  And he looked at my dad like, oh, he's got a bit of confidence.
• 14:20
  And my dad gave him a little wink.
• 14:24
  And I remember going to the grid before the race and everyone's booing me.
• 14:28
  And all the British journos, even the ones that made life tough for me over the years, they all came and stood by my car to show their support.
• 14:36
  Oh, fantastic.
• 14:37
  Which is nice.
• 14:39
  Had a great race, obviously fighting my way through.
• 14:43
  Finished fifth, which is where I had to finish even if Rubens won the race.
• 14:47
  Um, and he, he obviously had an issue with fighting with Lewis.
• 14:51
  So he finished behind me.
• 14:52
  So I clinched the world championship and I saw Mikey muscles, my physio first.
• 14:57
  And then I saw my dad and I hugged my dad.
• 15:00
  And then the crowd went, wow, they all started cheering me.
• 15:03
  It's like, all right, I get it.
• 15:05
  I get it.
• 15:06
  He just punched it up.
• 15:07
  So that was, that was it.
• 15:09
  Won the world championship.
• 15:10
  And, um,
• 15:11
  went and saw the team and there was a lot of very very emotional people one because they didn't know if we'd be even racing that year but two because of the amount of stress that we had put ourselves under with an underperforming car for the latter part of the season so it was a relief more than anything else
• 15:28
  Awesome, mate.
• 15:29
  I mean, it's over a decade ago now, but still evoking some very special memories.
• 15:32
  Thank you for sharing those with us.
• 15:34
  You probably can't say too much, so just tell us what you can.
• 15:37
  This is now, because it's such a great story, and I'm not surprised, it's the subject of a doco movie.
• 15:43
  Keanu Reeves is a part of this.
• 15:46
  I think Disney Plus are behind it.
• 15:48
  You were reunited with the car too.
• 15:50
  Can you tell us when it might be out and just share with us what is possible?
• 15:54
  Yeah.
• 15:55
  Yeah, well, reunited with the car, yes, but I actually own one of the three, which is pretty cool.
• 16:00
  Awesome.
• 16:01
  Great Perron cars.
• 16:03
  So I'm very lucky.
• 16:04
  My baby.
• 16:05
  I actually got to drive it 10 years after winning the World Championship at Silverstone.
• 16:10
  Excellent.
• 16:10
  In 2019, so good memories.
• 16:13
  And then last year, yes, spent three days with Keanu.
• 16:16
  Two days here in L.A. filming.
• 16:19
  He's doing all the interviews.
• 16:21
  I mean, he's really studied.
• 16:24
  He's done his homework, which is great to see.
• 16:26
  He's very passionate about the project, which is good.
• 16:29
  And then we spent a day at Silverstone in the UK with the car.
• 16:34
  I actually got him to get in the car.
• 16:35
  Initially, Ken was like, I don't feel right getting in your car.
• 16:39
  I was like, mate, just get in the car.
• 16:42
  And he did.
• 16:43
  And then I couldn't get him out.
• 16:44
  He wouldn't get out.
• 16:45
  I was like, this is amazing.
• 16:48
  You can't see anything.
• 16:49
  I said, yeah, it's very limited.
• 16:52
  So, no, I'm really excited about watching the doco.
• 16:57
  Everyone's been fantastic in terms of working closely with Keanu to give them as much information as possible.
• 17:06
  And it's going to be interesting because I've got my views, but I wasn't in room as Nick Fry when he did his interviews, and I'm sure we're going to have very different views, especially the bit when I decided to leave the team and he shouted at me and I laughed.
• 17:20
  And he said, don't laugh at me.
• 17:22
  So that's just to see if he has a different recollection than I do.
• 17:28
  But yeah, so really looking forward to it.
• 17:31
  I can't say when it's coming out because I actually don't know what the day is.
• 17:36
  I know that pretty much all the filming is done now.
• 17:39
  So they're working on it.
• 17:40
  It's going to be hours and hours and days and days of putting it all together.
• 17:44
  But the guys are going to do a fabulous job.
• 17:46
  I know that.
• 17:47
  Awesome.
• 17:48
  I know the checkered flag is approaching on this podcast, mate, so we'll bounce through a couple of two in a fast-paced sort of fashion maybe to finish here.
• 17:55
  You brought up Rubens Barrichello before and what it was like to work with him.
• 17:59
  Likeable character in the pit lane as you are too, but he was pretty handy and special behind the wheel, mate, wasn't he?
• 18:06
  He was.
• 18:07
  I mean, you know, all the years with Michael Schumacher at Ferrari, a lot of the time I don't think he was able to show his true pace.
• 18:16
  I understand why Micah wanted him as a teammate because in terms of his engineering ability, he's probably the best out there that I've worked with anyway.
• 18:26
  He made a massive difference and had a really good feel for the car and what the car needed to be competitive.
• 18:31
  But more than that, he's just a top bloke.
• 18:34
  I saw him last week actually.
• 18:38
  a few weeks before when this comes out.
• 18:41
  But really nice to see him.
• 18:42
  It's been a couple of years.
• 18:43
  And I went to his house, spent some time with him and his kids, and had a Brazilian barbecue, which is great.
• 18:51
  Excellent.
• 18:52
  And it was just, yeah, reminiscing.
• 18:54
  And he's a very affectionate person.
• 18:56
  He's very like myself.
• 18:56
  We're very similar in that way.
• 18:59
  And he's like, mate, we need to do some racing again.
• 19:00
  We need to do some racing with each other.
• 19:02
  Because he's still racing.
• 19:03
  He just won the Brazilian Stock Car Championship last year at the age of 50.
• 19:07
  I mean,
• 19:08
  He's still got it.
• 19:10
  So, yeah, it was great working with him and probably the most special time in my career working with a driver that I respected so much.
• 19:18
  And also we were so open with how we went racing and how we worked together.
• 19:21
  I think that was important.
• 19:24
  Cool.
• 19:24
  I was very privileged to get him on the pod.
• 19:26
  He's in the Rusty's Garage Library so listeners can go along and find that a little later on.
• 19:40
  I wish Jensen could keep my car clean.
• 19:42
  Anyway, from one Formula One adventure to another, if you are enjoying this F1 chat with Jensen Barton, go back through the garage and take a listen to Sam Michael, the Aussie turned Williams engineer broke into the F1 scene in the most unlikely fashion.
• 19:57
  I went to the last Grand Prix in 93, which is when I finished my degree and left.
• 20:03
  I went to the 93 Adelaide Grand Prix.
• 20:05
  Remember, Adelaide was at the end of the year.
• 20:06
  So it was November or maybe even October in those days.
• 20:10
  I can't remember.
• 20:12
  I had an interview with Peter Wright from Lotus.
• 20:14
  And he said to me, well, I've got a job as a junior simulation engineer.
• 20:19
  We're behind on sim.
• 20:19
  You've clearly done some stuff with your thesis.
• 20:22
  Again, I said that was fundamental.
• 20:23
  I turned up there with a copy of it to show him.
• 20:25
  Yeah.
• 20:26
  And he said, if you come to England, I'll give you a job.
• 20:29
  Anyway, about two weeks later, I was on a plane to Europe.
• 20:32
  I got a one-way ticket, it was about 350 bucks for the Aeroflot.
• 20:36
  So it took me about two and a half days to get there because we went to stop somewhere in Asia, like Singapore or Hong Kong or something.
• 20:43
  And then we went to Moscow and it was meant to be just a quick turnaround fuel and go.
• 20:47
  And the pilot came on, obviously in Russian first and then English and said, we're parked here for 17 hours.
• 20:52
  And so we'll see you in 17 hours.
• 20:55
  And my memory of that has got nothing to do with motor racing, but as part of the journey of getting there, I remember taking US$20 and cashing it in.
• 21:01
  And I thought, I'm going to go to Moscow and go and have a look because I'm probably never going to come back here, especially back then.
• 21:06
  It was early 90s, so the wall had just come down in Berlin and everything.
• 21:10
  I remember thinking I'll never go back here again.
• 21:13
  Cashed in $20, saw the Red Square, the Kremlin, all the stuff, and spent eight hours in the city and came back.
• 21:19
  Cashed back in the rush of money that I had, and it was the rubles, and got $18 back.
• 21:24
  So the whole day cost me $2.
• 21:26
  So especially as a student, I didn't have any money.
• 21:29
  So I arrived in...
• 21:31
  London, caught the train up to Norwich.
• 21:34
  I think I literally had about $100 in my pocket at that point.
• 21:39
  And I saw Peter Wright at the train station.
• 21:41
  So the chances of that, I get off the train and I'm going to go into his office the next morning.
• 21:46
  And he recognised me, but I only met him for like...
• 21:50
  30 minutes in Adelaide two weeks earlier.
• 21:52
  And he said, oh, hi.
• 21:53
  You know, it's you.
• 21:55
  And I went, yeah, hi, it's Sam.
• 21:57
  I've come to get a job.
• 21:58
  And he looked at me and said, yeah, I didn't think you'd actually turn up.
• 22:01
  He goes, well, you better come to work then.
• 22:02
  He goes, come and see me tomorrow morning.
• 22:06
  Sam is a ripper.
• 22:08
  Now back to Jensen Barton and a few of his key connections over the journey.
• 22:13
  Lewis Hamilton, incredibly special athlete, 38 now, still doing it.
• 22:18
  That probably doesn't surprise you, I know.
• 22:20
  What observations did you make when you were, you know, with him at McLaren, just about his competitive makeup and about the way he went about the business of F1?
• 22:28
  I think he's learned a lot since we were teammates.
• 22:30
  But he was extremely quick.
• 22:33
  And the thing that really stood up for me was that, you know, if he had a bad weekend,
• 22:39
  You know, he would actually come out stronger at the next race.
• 22:43
  Um, you know, if I, if I beat him one weekend, the next weekend, he'd come out and I'd be like, wow, where did that come from?
• 22:50
  He might even be behind in practice, you know, be two or three tenths off in practice and he'd come out and put a lap in and qualify, which I could have, I could never have done.
• 22:58
  Um, and that was his, his strength, you know, just pulling it out the bag, the natural ability.
• 23:05
  Um, yeah.
• 23:07
  In terms of natural ability, I don't think there are many racing drivers that have that.
• 23:13
  I think other drivers can work hard and be as competitive as Lewis, but it's more from the hard work and developing a car.
• 23:22
  For me, that was my strength, and I could take it to Lewis because of that.
• 23:26
  But he had a lot of strengths, but he also had a lot of weaknesses, and that goes for all of us as drivers.
• 23:32
  And it's finding that weakness from a teammate or another driver that you...
• 23:37
  you kind of have to use to your advantage.
• 23:40
  Me, the big thing was arriving at McLaren and trying to round the troops, if you like, get the team behind me.
• 23:50
  And I always said to McLaren before I signed the contract, I said, if this is Lewis's team, I don't want to sign the contract.
• 23:58
  If we have equal opportunities, I'm up for it.
• 24:02
  And they said, yeah, 100% equal.
• 24:04
  And it was.
• 24:06
  And, you know, I walked in and tried to make friends with everyone and took them out for dinner and, you know, made them feel, you know, it's just little things.
• 24:14
  You know, most drivers are like, how are you doing?
• 24:17
  You walk in the morning.
• 24:18
  Thanks, guys.
• 24:18
  You get in the car.
• 24:19
  You drive.
• 24:19
  You go, cheers, guys.
• 24:20
  And they leave.
• 24:21
  So, yeah.
• 24:22
  And then they're like, we just did all this work for this guy.
• 24:25
  He might be super quick, but he's not respecting what we do for a living and how much hard work it is.
• 24:33
  So that was key for me to make people understand and realize that we do care.
• 24:39
  Without them, we don't go racing.
• 24:40
  We're nothing without them.
• 24:42
  We're a small part of the puzzle, really.
• 24:44
  So that was important.
• 24:46
  I think Lewis at that moment in time didn't understand the importance of that.
• 24:51
  And that was probably his weakness.
• 24:54
  He just like, he thought, I must be quicker than him.
• 24:56
  Look at my results.
• 24:58
  It's enough, but it never is.
• 24:59
  You can work every angle.
• 25:01
  And that's where Fernando Alonso is very strong.
• 25:04
  You know, he works every angle possible.
• 25:07
  Outright speed, Lewis is probably quicker.
• 25:10
  He's definitely quicker than me on outright speed if he just jumps in the car.
• 25:15
  and probably quicker than Fernando, but Fernando was amazing at building a car and every area that needs to be improved he could work on, whether it's teamwork or strategy or mindset.
• 25:30
  That was his real strength.
• 25:32
  Coupled with the McLaren hat on to finish, everyone in Australia is super excited, mate, about Oscar Piastri.
• 25:38
  Will he be good?
• 25:39
  What are your observations of him?
• 25:41
  Is McLaren a good fit and so on?
• 25:44
  Yeah, I mean, everyone will say massive pressure on his shoulders.
• 25:50
  Is it too much?
• 25:51
  You know, going racing for a team like McLaren, but then Lewis did it and it worked.
• 25:57
  You know what I mean?
• 25:58
  And Lewis almost won the World Championship in his first year.
• 26:00
  I mean, it's just mind-blowing how good that kid was back then.
• 26:07
  You know, if he's good enough,
• 26:09
  He's got to go up against the best of them.
• 26:11
  And it's a tough, tough world, Formula One.
• 26:14
  You know, you arrive, you've won everything.
• 26:16
  You're like, I can make the difference.
• 26:19
  You know, even if the car's not quick enough, I can make the difference.
• 26:22
  And I remember that with Kevin Magnussen when he jumped in the McLaren.
• 26:26
  Great for the first couple of races.
• 26:27
  Then he's like, oh, I thought this would be a lot easier.
• 26:33
  Yeah, win races, even though the car's not good enough.
• 26:36
  So no, you've got to realize that everyone has done what you've done.
• 26:39
  We've all won our categories through the years to get to Formula One.
• 26:43
  So I think he's a big talent.
• 26:46
  And I think mentally he's very strong, which is what you need him this for.
• 26:51
  He's got one of the toughest teammates.
• 26:53
  Lando is that sort of guy that he just goes out there and does it.
• 26:57
  He gets it.
• 26:58
  He's very like Lewis in that regard.
• 27:01
  That's sometimes tough because you work all weekend to develop the car.
• 27:04
  You think you've got it, and then he goes, bang, and puts a lap in.
• 27:08
  I think that hurt Daniel over the last couple of years.
• 27:12
  I hope he does well.
• 27:14
  I think he will do well.
• 27:16
  I hope he also realizes that it's not...
• 27:19
  all about the first race it's not all about the first season you know if he wants a long career in this sport he's just got to be there soaking it all up soaking all the information up like a sponge and if you're not quick enough at the first race you're not quick enough but work and he understands what he's doing he's got he's got he's got Weber as well so he'll help him out in that regard so I look forward to the challenge of those two McLaren both super quick and hopefully the car will be relatively competitive.
• 27:48
  Yeah, we hope so too.
• 27:49
  You love your driving.
• 27:50
  We know that there's been some GT stuff in post-F1 life.
• 27:53
  There's been some off-roading and more.
• 27:55
  But can we, toward the end of this chat, talk about Bathurst, driving an F1 car around Bathurst, and you getting the chance to drive a supercar both there and at Albert Park?
• 28:06
  What did you think?
• 28:07
  Yeah, I mean, the F1 car around Bathurst wasn't the most fun, I must say, because it's not made for that track.
• 28:15
  Wicked time though, mate.
• 28:16
  Wicked lap time.
• 28:17
  Road's made like that.
• 28:18
  So the whole time, it feels like you're falling off the track the whole time.
• 28:23
  It was geared for Melbourne because it was obviously not a current car, but it was geared to drive around Melbourne because they do that comparison, don't they, road car, race car, F1 car.
• 28:33
  So we'd hit the limiter like halfway down the back, down Conrod straight.
• 28:36
  So it was like I just sat there on the limiter.
• 28:40
  So, I mean, with new tires and setup, you could probably go six or seven seconds quicker than what we did.
• 28:45
  But it was a great experience.
• 28:48
  But I must say, driving the supercar around, it was more fun than driving the F1 car.
• 28:53
  because it's kind of made for it.
• 28:54
  It feels like it's just right.
• 28:57
  And I know they've changed a lot since then, but I enjoyed it.
• 29:01
  But it was a heavy lump to get used to.
• 29:04
  And I say that in the best way.
• 29:07
  And it's been announced that I'm racing at Le Mans this year.
• 29:11
  Fantastic.
• 29:14
  in a stock car i should say i get shocked saying nascar it's a it's a nascar stock car so people understand what it is uh and it's a developed cup series car um which is developed for endurance racing and also a bit more downforce a bit more power a bit lighter so we can be relatively competitive against the gte so which is tough
• 29:37
  But we're trying our best so that we aren't hanging off the back of the field.
• 29:40
  But, you know, really excited for that.
• 29:42
  And it kind of reminds me of the supercar, you know, in terms of its weight, the mechanical grip needed.
• 29:50
  it's probably not as under tired as the V8 supercar was because you'd hit brakes and always locked up.
• 29:56
  I always found that, but, um, it's, it's a heavy lump taking a bit to get used to, but I'm loving the experience and working with great people.
• 30:03
  Mike Rockenfella, Jimmy Johnson, Hendrick Motorsports, obviously building the car, um, and, uh, NASCAR, you know,
• 30:12
  NASCAR are going to be a Le Mans, which is nuts, but I'm really happy to be part of the journey with them and showing the European fans how cool a NASCAR can be.
• 30:23
  That has been a bucket list wish of yours, I know, mate, to go and do that race.
• 30:27
  And I'm glad you brought that up and gave us a summary of it because that's going to be a cool thing.
• 30:32
  Can we finish?
• 30:33
  I think I can see over your shoulder as you're in Los Angeles as we talk here.
• 30:38
  I think I can see a photo of your dad over your shoulder there.
• 30:42
  I had the chance to interview him once or twice when you were out on track at Albert Park and so on.
• 30:46
  He was always a beautiful...
• 30:47
  member of the paddock and much loved, mate.
• 30:51
  A fan has messaged in the lead up to this podcast and said, if you're comfortable in asking about when you walked back into the paddock, mate, after his passing,
• 31:03
  Was that kind of like good tonic for you because he was so well-loved in the paddock?
• 31:08
  You were in a place doing what you wanted to do and you'd gotten to share some very special moments with him.
• 31:12
  I would imagine that was probably going back to work like that, mate, was one of the best things you could have done.
• 31:18
  Well, testing, he passed away in January, early January.
• 31:24
  So I was back testing sort of three weeks later in Bahrain.
• 31:30
  And that was – it was just –
• 31:33
  weird because for me driving had been my whole life so it kind of felt normal to go driving again.
• 31:41
  People grieve in very different ways and for me jumping back into motorsport was helpful I guess in one way.
• 31:53
  So the testing was fine.
• 31:57
  Racing was not.
• 31:59
  It was just wrong.
• 32:01
  It just felt strange.
• 32:04
  You know, being in Melbourne, which is the first race there, wasn't it?
• 32:09
  Yeah.
• 32:09
  Being in Melbourne for the first race and him not being there was just awful.
• 32:17
  And to be fair, that's how it felt the rest of my everyone's career.
• 32:24
  It didn't feel right, you know, because those years were difficult years.
• 32:29
  Some great races, you know, I ended up with a podium in top three in Melbourne, that first race.
• 32:36
  And I had a couple of reasonable results, fourth, fifth, sixth, over the next couple of years.
• 32:43
  But he was always there to bounce things off of.
• 32:47
  He would never jump to give his opinion.
• 32:50
  He'd be in the background, you know, enjoying life.
• 32:53
  But when it was hurting me, it was hurting him 10 times more when things were tough.
• 32:58
  So I would always ask his opinion and that was gone.
• 33:04
  You know, I couldn't do that anymore.
• 33:06
  I just had the memories, which were amazing.
• 33:09
  But when you're at race weekend and you're trying to focus and every single person in the paddock comes up to you and says, we really miss your dad, it must be tough.
• 33:16
  It's like, now it really is tough, yeah.
• 33:20
  I must say the last three years of my career in F1
• 33:25
  weren't the same because he wasn't there.
• 33:27
  That's kind of the reason why I retired in 2016.
• 33:30
  I tried after 2014, I tried to retire at the end of that year.
• 33:34
  My friend said, no, you can't.
• 33:36
  You've got to give it a couple more years.
• 33:38
  So then I did one more year and I was like, I'm done.
• 33:41
  You know, I'm not enjoying this.
• 33:43
  It's fighting in the mid or rear of the pack, even though I had Fernando as a teammate.
• 33:48
  That was exciting to go up against him.
• 33:51
  But I said my love of it is gone because I don't have that feeling of my dad's support here.
• 33:59
  And it's something, even though I didn't talk to him always over Grand Prix weekend, I just knew he was there as that supporting role.
• 34:06
  And then 2016, even two or three races in, I was like, I'm done.
• 34:10
  And that was when it was decided that I'm 100% moving away from F1.
• 34:17
  Yeah, it was a tough time.
• 34:18
  So no, I didn't think Formula 1 was good for me after he passed because it was something that we did together.
• 34:24
  He missed one race until he passed away, and that was, I think it was Brazil one year.
• 34:30
  But it was every other race.
• 34:31
  So yeah, it didn't work, and that's another reason, as I said, why I retired and went to do other things that he would have loved as well.
• 34:38
  Racing in Japan, Super GT, won that championship, which is great.
• 34:42
  He loved Japan.
• 34:43
  He would love to have been there for that.
• 34:45
  Then I did it in 2018 in a Haupo car, in a prototype, which was fun.
• 34:51
  But to go back there now with a NASCAR, I just know.
• 34:55
  If he was here today, he'd be laughing his head off at that possibility and the possibility of getting it competitive enough to race against GTE cars.
• 35:06
  The other thing is, I wish he was around here to see my kids, but...
• 35:10
  We all go through it.
• 35:11
  We all go through grieving.
• 35:14
  We deal with it in different ways.
• 35:16
  For me, he was such a big part of my life, not just as a dad, but as my number one supporter in motorsports.
• 35:23
  I miss him, but I've got such special memories to look back on.
• 35:28
  Thank you for sharing, mate.
• 35:29
  I've no doubt he's still as immensely proud.
• 35:32
  Go get him at Le Mans.
• 35:34
  I'm glad you're enjoying family life.
• 35:36
  I'm hoping that Lennox, for example, is in the garage with you from time to time when you are there getting the chance to muck around with you.
• 35:43
  You've just merged the name of both my children.
• 35:47
  And a lot of people do it.
• 35:48
  You said Lennox, which is...
• 35:50
  Oh, sorry, sorry.
• 35:51
  It's funny, we actually have a friend called Lennox and our children are always called Hendrix and Lenny.
• 35:58
  So, yeah.
• 35:59
  Sorry, mate.
• 35:59
  You're abbreviating.
• 36:03
  But I mean, I'm hoping you get to spend some garage time with them.
• 36:06
  That's always cool for young ones with their dad.
• 36:09
  This pod has been brought to you by Armourall.
• 36:11
  You can everyday proof your car.
• 36:13
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• 36:15
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• 36:18
  And I would encourage listeners, Jensen, to go and find some of the content you guys have been doing on Facebook and so on with tips around cleaning your car.
• 36:26
  Yeah, it's been a lot of fun.
• 36:27
  And yeah, great products.
• 36:30
  If you ever have any questions, Admiral, are your people to help you out with that.
• 36:35
  Thank you, mate.
• 36:36
  Thank you so much for chatting with us today on Rusty's Garage.
• 36:39
  Cheers.
• 36:39
  Thanks, mate.
• 36:45
  Rusty's Garage is written and presented by me, Greg Rust.
• 36:49
  Series editor and producer is Thomas Dullard.
• 36:53
  Audio production by Link Kelly.
• 36:55
  If you've got a guest suggestion, get in touch with me via social media.
• 37:00
  The Garage, that's where a journey begins with a tank full of passion-fuelled stories.