Latest / The STA Clinician Podcast / Ep234 'Lower Limb Amputees: Stepping Through Adversity' - with Rich Potter, Rich Davies, Carla Bickerstaffe, Jenny Lane

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Ep234 'Lower Limb Amputees: Stepping Through Adversity' - with Rich Potter, Rich Davies, Carla Bickerstaffe, Jenny Lane · The STA Clinician Podcast

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You're listening to the Sports Therapy Association podcast, putting evidence
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back into soft tissue therapy.
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Music.
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I'm alive. Hey people, welcome to episode 234 of the Sports Therapy Association podcast.
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My name is Matt Phillips, creator of runeshutlive.com. And as always,
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this episode is being recorded live eight o'clock Tuesday on the Sports Therapy
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Association YouTube channel.
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So we have reached the final part of this month's four part series on working
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with athletes with disabilities.
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And very shortly for tonight's episode, lower limb amputees stepping through adversity.
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I should be welcoming back to the show Rich Potter and Rich Davis,
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both armed forces veterans and single below leg amputees who set world records.
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At the end of last year on their
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limitless expedition conquering the himalayas as the
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first ever amputees to achieve the half and full length of
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the snowman trek in bhutan with them
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will be sports therapist carla bickerstaff and
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massage therapist jenny lane both of
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whom have considerable experience of working with athletes
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with disabilities and yeah we're looking forward
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to bringing everybody up but first of course a huge thank
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you to my guests last week in episode
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233 which is out now navigating injury
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physical and psychological support which my
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guest was dan wheels metcalf dan wheels
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dan metcalf who was left paralyzed from the waist down after a
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motorcycle accident in 2014 and four years later saw his dreams of competing
1:40
in the paralympic hand cycling taken from him when he was hit by a car during
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a 600 mile charity hand cycling event so what did he do well he took up diving
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and achieved three scuba diving world records dan talks openly and honestly
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about his experiences and he's
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joined by two specialists who have worked with him during his journey.
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Nicola Hunt, neurological and vestibular physiotherapist, and Dr.
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Catherine Dawson, consultant clinical neuropsychologist.
2:04
It's amazing, listen, as all of the episodes in this series have been,
2:08
and not just for healthcare practitioners, which I hope is a message that's
2:10
come across and some of the feedback we've had has been that,
2:13
but basically for anyone who is interested in or has been affected by physical
2:17
and or psychological challenges.
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So find them now on the Sports Therapy Association YouTube channel or listen
2:22
on any popular podcast app.
2:26
People are coming in the live lounge, which is fantastic. Thank you,
2:29
people. Sometimes I forget. I think last week I might forget just to thank people who joined us live.
2:33
If you are listening to the podcast, then do please try. I know you've got very
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busy lives, but do try and come and join us at eight o'clock on YouTube or on Facebook.
2:41
Because it's just lovely to have people joining. And it's a great opportunity
2:44
for you to actually get it done.
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The amount of people I know who just say, oh yeah, I'll listen to the podcast.
2:48
They don't manage to find time or they download it and never listen to it.
2:52
So it is discipline wise. It's great if you can just make this hour your CPD for the week.
2:57
So Cecily Hisslop, for example, first to the draw as always.
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Evening all, just finished my steak and chips. That's great. I'm celebrating now.
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The good thing is if you do come in and ask questions, I can bring your questions
3:06
and your comments up on the screens. It's a nice bit of networking.
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Gary Benson, founder of the STA is in here as well says evening all sir glenn
3:12
murphy mb says evening playmates,
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um who do you remind me of then i can't remember tracy marsh
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says hi and other people are coming in now so thank you very much for joining
3:21
us live it really makes a difference um and of course everybody who listens
3:24
to the podcast as well thank you as well but if you do listen to the podcast
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then you do have to pay not money just with a rating a five and a review would
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be great sorry it's just a nice little review a few little words basically just
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it helps our message the great word of our guests, get out to Google.
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And so that's what you can really do to help to support us.
3:44
Right then, I think we're ready in that case to crack on with part four of this series.
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If you have joined us live, as always, feel free to ask questions as we start
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episode 234, Lower Limb Amputees Stepping Through Adversity with my guests,
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Rich Potter, Rich Davis,
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Carla Bickerstaff and Jenny Lane. Let's bring them up.
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Music.
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You're listening to the sports therapy association podcast evidence back to soft tissue therapy,
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have we got everybody yes we have hey people how are you good evening we're
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back famous five here on screen thank you so much for giving up your time once
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again people i really appreciate it you're all here in the first episode um
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so i appreciate you giving up your time uh let's just start for the benefit
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of people listening to the podcast,
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I'll just say hi again so people can distinguish your voices.
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So good evening, Rich Potter.
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Good evening, Matt. Thanks for having us back. I really appreciate your time,
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Matt. Thank you so much. Rich Dickie Davis.
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Evening all. Hope you're all well. Fantastic. Sports therapist Carla Dickestaff.
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Evening. Nice to see you again. Thank you. And massage therapist Jenny Lane. Good evening.
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Beautiful. Annual video's working, sound's working, so everything's great.
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What could possibly go wrong, he said, tempting folk massively.
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Anyway, right. So the title of the episode, Lower Limb Amputee,
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Stepping Through Adversity.
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Tea and for people who aren't aware they were the
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words which you guys placed for the emblem
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i guess for your limitless expedition now let's just
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look i'll bring a little picture up here for people who have joined us live
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this is the advantage of listening to the podcast of joining us live on
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youtube is there will be some photos being shared and if
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you are listening to the podcast and you want to see what's that picture you're showing then just stop
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your podcast now and go along to youtube and and
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you'll be able to see them he said as he's taking them off
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i'll get those pictures upcoming soon but yeah so they were the words you
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put on your limitless expedition which was your well
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basically you took on what's regarded as the most difficult trek in the world the
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snowman trek in the himalayas with the name of covering 200 miles for those
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of you who aren't aware of this 200 miles in less than 40 days including 11
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mountain passes at altitudes of over 2 000 no 5 500 meters and of course be
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the first amputees um to ever do it so we're going to talk about that very shortly.
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But first of all, I think for listeners who aren't aware of you guys,
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I think we should give them a little summary, if that's okay, about your background.
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So maybe if we could start off with Dickie Davis, maybe yourself.
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So I am an RAF veteran, and in 2019, I suffered a severe crash injury to my
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left foot, which two and a half years later resulted in my left bologna amputation.
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Following that, I was fortunate enough to be selected as part of Team UK for
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the Invictus Games in 2023,
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where I was very fortunate to meet the lovely Carla Regeni, who would ultimately
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become a very good friend of mine, Rich Possett.
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And from there, everything just blossomed.
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We became good mates, families got together really well, which ultimately led
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us to the Bhutanese Himalayas.
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Thank you very much and people may recognize the voice but Dickie was kind enough
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to come to Therapy Expert as well last year where he gave a fantastic presentation
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with Carla so yeah thank you again for that it was just amazing people still
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talking about that so I appreciate that it was amazing and Rich Potter could
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you give us a little summary of your of your experiences.
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Yeah so Rich Potter I commissioned in 2011 I had a really fun career unfortunately
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got injured playing football back to the military, which was pretty brutal,
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especially when I was told it was a sprained ankle, but it was actually an OCD,
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which is an osteochondral defect.
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So it could have been managed conservatively, but wasn't. I had surgery,
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ultimately contracted sepsis.
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And after a protracted battle with sepsis and osteomyelitis,
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I had it below the knee amputation.
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Like Dickie, I represented the UK in Victor's Games, won a couple of medals,
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and then went to Bhutan to do the Limitless Expedition.
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Fantastic, which we'll go into shortly. I thought it was interesting.
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I think we commented last time, Rich Potter, I think you had somebody,
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or it happens quite a lot, isn't it?
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People assume, especially when they learn that you're veterans,
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that the amputation was due to some kind of catastrophic injury in battle or something.
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So is that something you just understand now and take on board?
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Or how do you feel when people presume that?
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I think at the beginning, I used to get pretty worked up about it and pretty frustrated about it.
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And then I almost got that sort of identity fraud
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where I didn't feel like i belonged in that veteran community because
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i hadn't suffered a blast injury but eventually you just come to
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terms with it just like anything time heals everything and now
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i kind of use it as a point of education for people so it's kind of uh you know
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there's millions of amputees in the world and probably not point not one percent
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of them are are combat related so yeah it's a good it's a good chance to educate
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that's amazing and well i think that'll be a common theme as we talk to both
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of you dickie for you do you still get people presuming that and what's your
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reaction compared to...
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Not as much because I was Air Force. They seemed to think, you know,
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we've got the safer avenue in the forces.
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But I've had it a few times, like Rich. And at first, yeah, you feel like a fraudster. You go, no.
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I had a very unfortunate incident whilst on deployment, you know, it wasn't war-related.
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But yeah, you sort of move on with it, you know, as Rich just said,
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so many people in the armed forces community and veterans who have non-combat-related
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injuries and disabilities as a result.
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Yeah, that's a good point. There's going to be loads of these interesting points and assumptions.
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I mean, and it's great information for therapists as well, because they're going
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to presume if ever they do work, they're going to presume that the person in
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front of them, if they've got an amputation it must have been because of some
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you know something which they're assuming and it's always just shows you're
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not in that conversation if you make assumptions like that so.
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Just a reminder here i think gary mentioned this last time we're
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planning this is gary benson founder the sda we're planning a couple of web chats
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with sepsis uk want to coincide with sepsis awareness month in the
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autumn and a special sda extra podcast especially for members on
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recognizing symptoms which if
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you remember last week's guest dan metcalf
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suffered from that was talking about that so yeah thanks
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Gary for reminding us of that and Carla and Jenny
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what was your when did you first meet Rich and Dickie so it will have been that
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towards the end of 2022 I want to say when the sort of the first round of selection
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started for the team for 2023 and then,
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from sort of the January 2023 was when
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team was confirmed but we weren't allowed to tell people that team was confirmed
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so you get like a we had near enough a full year I think working together before
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heading out to the games and then obviously came back from the games and carried
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on working with them through the next crazy adventure.
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That's crazy adventure and Jenny yourself similar circumstances
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yeah similar i didn't manage to work
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with the guys through the through the trek but certainly
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worked more with rich potter as well
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but yeah and we did do if you listen to
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the podcast and are not familiar with victor's games we had pretty much a
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whole episode we did have a whole episode on that two weeks
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ago which would be 230 it is
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a mass quickly 232 where we had sam may and
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jimma barnes and we're talking about all about the victor's games which is very much worth
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a listen but yes back to the expedition so
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september 2024 episode 211 both
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of you all of us were here and we you were literally a month away preparing
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for setting off i don't know if that seems like a lifetime ago now but it seems
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pretty incredible when you take that they're both nodding for those this podcast
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are both nodding but yeah does it seem like a lifetime ago to think before that happened,
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pre-Limitless Expedition? Yeah.
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You know, the months since then, yeah, just disappeared. You know, we're into 2025.
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It feels like it was over a year ago now.
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Almost a distant memory, but also, yeah, still a lot of emotions to bring up from it.
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And for you, Rich, Potter, you were nodding away there and thinking,
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yeah, you could say that.
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Yeah, I mean, I think September wasn't that far away. I think once you hit your
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40s, time just goes anyway.
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So, you know, yesterday may as well have been here as far as I'm concerned.
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But I think also the Limitless Expedition was a year in the making.
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So it wasn't like we just decided in August that we're going to do this.
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It was a year of planning and interviewing and recruiting and trying to get sponsorship.
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So, yeah, it was a very long, protracted process. And by the time we got to
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September, I think it was quite cathartic to be like, okay, we're done.
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We'll go in. This is it. It's real.
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Because up to that point, it didn't really feel real. I think kind of end of
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August was when we finally got flights booked and all the logistics.
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Otherwise, it was all just, yeah, we're hoping to do this.
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So, yeah, it was nice to actually get away and do it, wasn't it? Yeah.
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Well, how did you describe it? And we were chatting offline.
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What was it? A rather long walk in the mountains or something? Yeah.
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Yeah. I came up with a lovely quote. Yeah, let's mention that. I'm
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interested in preparation for that then we can talk about the actual expedition
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itself but in preparation for that Carly you
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are very much involved in that for listeners who are
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soft tissue therapists hands-on therapists any actually even allied health professionals
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physios I'm sure be interested in it what let's look at the physical work how
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are you involved physically and helping these guys prepare for it so I saw Rich
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and Dickie sort of I think it was once a month So I traveled down to Norwich to go and see them.
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And we basically, I was like, I'm here to help. You tell me what you want, what you need.
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I'm very much led by those guys, but also offering my advice where I can.
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So we did a lot of hands-on soft tissue work, obviously, because they were doing
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a lot of prep work, ready to go out on the trek.
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But then also giving them little tips and little hints on things that they can
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do to self-manage whilst they were away and help each other as well if they needed to.
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Obviously, sleeping in a little tent is not a great deal of space,
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but what can I give them that they can find useful, that they can help if they
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need it while they're out there?
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And then also talking on the side of more like first aidy things like what will
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you need to do this to look after your stump like obviously I know they're the
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experts in their condition they live with it day in day out but what can I offer
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from an outside perspective is there anything different I can offer them so.
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Kind of it in a nutshell, really. That's fine.
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I want to look at the self-care, which is an important part in a second.
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But what about actually hands-on?
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People who are therapists who are here are probably keen to know what were you
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doing that was hands-on.
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And we'll talk about the other support you gave them later on.
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But yeah, hands-on, what sort of stuff are you getting involved in?
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So even though they've both got the same amputation, they're both very different
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and wanted different things out of treatment.
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Obviously a lot of lower limb stuff so we were looking at both both legs and lower back,
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and to some degree because obviously Dickie's doing a
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lot of archery as well at the same time a lot of
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shoulder work for him so it was a lot of soft
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tissue work through there a lot of manipulations and stuff just
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mobilizations assisted stretching as well sort of to help and again sort of
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how can we show how can I show you guys something that you can help each other
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with so like things like we said at the expo how do you do a hamstring stretch when potentially,
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you haven't got the ankle to anchor to or the same with a quad stretch how can
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I show them how to help each other whilst they're halfway up a mountain somewhere
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and need to do that kind of thing.
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So yeah, it was a lot of soft tissue work, a lot of mobilizations.
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A lot of, I don't say a lot of teaching because that's not, I don't mean that
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in like, I'm trying to make them into therapists, if that makes sense.
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It was just sort of like things that I might find useful for them.
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And then the same, they could ask me questions if there was anything they weren't
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sure of or how to do things or what would I recommend those kind of things so
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it was a kind of an all-rounder,
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sort of session really if that makes sense yeah yeah no totally and Jenny you
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weren't involved in the act of preparation then but you worked with these people
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and other people in similar situations in the Invictus Games what what would
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you what advice would you what question now what could you tell listeners who
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are soft tissue therapists which you think might surprise them,
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about working with someone let's let's stick with low leg amputation what do
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you think might surprise a therapist?
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I think really well two things I would say I mean
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mainly these guys are normal people if
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you like they have normal problems in the same way as you'd have a problem with
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somebody who walked in a street with tightness and adaptive kind of responses
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to an injury if somebody's limping a lot then you're going to see it up and
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down it's exactly the same it's exactly the same but just on a slightly different
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level and the other thing I would say is.
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You know, we've talked about the stump before. The thing that surprised me most
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was just how soft and baby soft the skin was actually on the stump themselves. It was quite soft.
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You're breaking up, I'm afraid, a little bit, Jenny. I might ask you to refresh
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the screen or something.
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It's kind of lagging a little bit, unfortunately, at your end.
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We're missing every kind of third or fourth word. I can tell you what Jenny just said.
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We've often said that the first time you work with somebody that's particularly
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a lower limb average, I expected the amputation to be solid,
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so like a bone with just skin over the top of it.
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And actually, it's quite soft and smushy because the musculature is still there,
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but it's been used in a different way.
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So yes, they might still have a calf muscle, but actually it now starts and
18:00
ends in a different place because it's been used to make a flap over the stump, if that makes sense.
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So it's some things are not where you expect them to be and also the feeling of it can be.
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Different expand on that some things are not where you
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expect them to be so like if you so for example
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if you take the calf for example it
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might now start on the back of the leg but now finish
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on the front of the leg as opposed to being
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completely down the back so that
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muscle is still there but how much contractile
18:41
strength it has if any is going to be different so that's a consideration to
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take in when you're treating somebody but you won't know that unless you talk
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to the patient that you've got in front of you and find out from them sort of
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because they I mean, correct me if I'm wrong,
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guys, but I think they would know what musculature's been used to make a flap. Yeah.
19:07
Yeah. So they will be able to say to you in their appointment,
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this is what I've had done, this is the surgery that I had done,
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and you can then work together from there to find out what works for them,
19:19
rather than just barreling in and hoping for the best kind of thing.
19:24
That's great. That's really good points. I mean, because that's something which
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has been said across all four episodes now is, and it's something we need to
19:32
remember as therapists, is just remember there's a human at the end of that
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leg, ankle, knee, shoulder, whatever it is.
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And it sounds ridiculous, but we've all kind of trained.
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And you know, Carla and Jenny, you know that more than anybody,
19:45
we're all trained to treat the injury, aren't we?
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It's something which unfortunately isn't changing that quickly in traditional teachings.
19:52
And, yeah, we just go straight for the knee thinking do some tests and then check this.
19:57
And now we need to do this to the knee and change this to knee and get some
19:59
exercise to strength this.
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And we might not even consider what the other person in the end is even feeling
20:04
or thinking or needs. So, yeah, it's like you said in previous episodes,
20:08
it's exaggerated even more the importance for communication.
20:12
And it has carried through, hasn't it, to the rest of your career when you're
20:15
working with other athletes or people. So, yeah, very interesting.
20:19
Jenny, sorry, we lost you for a second there. I think Carla summarized wonderfully.
20:23
I don't know what you've done. I'm good.
20:28
Fine so how much
20:31
obviously in your cases rich and dicky you'd
20:34
already worked with soft tissue therapists during invictus games before
20:37
but do you remember i don't know what was your what was your experience working
20:42
you're both from sporting backgrounds aren't you so i suppose you were already
20:45
very attuned to working with soft tissue therapists but was it strange for you
20:49
the first time a sports tissue therapist started working with the stub with
20:53
the amputation was it something which you weren't quite sure about having someone else touch or,
20:57
Rich Potter, you both are so polite enough to address one of your answer.
21:01
Otherwise, they're just going to smile sweetly at each other.
21:03
Yeah, Rich Potter, awesome. Yeah,
21:06
definitely. I was a bit of an anomaly because normally in the military,
21:10
a lot of an amputee would do six, seven, eight, nine months at rehab, and then they'd be off.
21:14
I had three years at rehab because I had a lot of revision surgeries and general complications.
21:19
And I was quite lucky that over those three years, I had two amazing physios
21:23
who looked after me and were very happy to do some soft tissue work if I needed it.
21:26
But going back to your question the stump is so weird to look at as an amputee
21:31
especially for the first sort of six eight weeks it's just a bloody mess like
21:34
there's literally blood all over the stomach and there's wound dressings coming
21:38
off and stitches and stuff and it's very hard to look at
21:40
and it takes a very long time for you to accept that it's now part of your body
21:44
and you have to see it every single day so if that's how we feel i imagine how
21:48
difficult it could be for a therapist to see it for the first time to just be
21:50
like whoa that's you know that's crazy but i think um.
21:54
Amputees if they're going to a therapist for treatment they're already
21:57
okay with it and by the time i started that treatment
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i was happy for them to touch it what i will say is scar
22:02
massage is such an important part of an amputee's
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early journey and i didn't realize how important it was and i
22:08
was so bad at doing it myself because i was so nervous that
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i might rip the scar or you know pull it open or whatever so
22:14
i would only allow my physio to do it or the therapist to
22:17
do and it was an amazing part of it and even now i
22:20
do some scar massage it still helps because it just breaks down some of
22:23
that tissue in the bottom of my stump and makes it a bit less painful on info
22:26
that's really interesting dicky do same experience
22:29
to you yeah i pretty much echo which is comments scar
22:33
i was told from very early start after my
22:36
orientation and my my journey through
22:39
rehabilitation was a little
22:43
over about just under a year and a half before
22:46
i was discharged for it but i didn't require you
22:49
know lots of revision surgery so i've got the one incision where
22:52
they've done all the work and then closed up but yeah i was
22:55
always told when we start to get our scar management under
22:58
control you know and give it the best chance possible but like we said it's
23:03
terrifying you really worry as somebody who's not trained and you're going i've
23:08
got to touch it myself now but you're going to rip it open you're sort of sort
23:13
of pussyfoot around it You don't want to be rough with it, actually,
23:16
when sometimes really getting in there is going to be the best thing for you. It's that uncertainty.
23:22
Yeah, makes sense. I think it's quite an important message then that by the
23:26
time, and you've both kind of said this, but by the time a soft tissue therapist gets to see you,
23:33
you're pretty much, it might be because it's a different person,
23:36
but you're already experienced with having somebody touch that.
23:38
You've been touching yourself, managing yourself.
23:40
So if there's any tension in the room, it's created by the therapist because
23:43
they're not talking to you, asking like questions, isn't it?
23:45
You guys are kind of ready and going, let's do it.
23:47
Let's get on with it. So it's a good message there for therapists, isn't there?
23:51
It might be very strange for you but you know communicate talk about it you
23:55
know and you guys are both realizing it must be strange for a therapist if they
23:59
haven't worked you know with a stump before you appreciate that so yeah just
24:02
talk people just communicate with each other easier said than done definitely.
24:07
Fine right i wanted to go into the self-care
24:12
then because that's a really important part because again there's
24:14
a message there for all healthcare practitioners is yes you
24:17
spend your time with the client in there and you might be hands-on
24:20
but it's about equipping that person with the tools
24:24
and the confidence in some cases to look after themselves when
24:27
they're not with you which is much much much longer than
24:30
when they're with you once a week or once every two weeks or something so
24:33
yeah you started talking carlo about preparation i
24:36
love the idea so did you have them both in together or were you
24:39
replicating the information in terms of helping each
24:41
other because this is quite a kind of a very concrete case
24:44
wasn't it where the two of them are going to be there okay there's some other people some guides
24:47
but essentially it was them looking after each other a lot
24:50
of the time wasn't it yeah so basically i
24:54
said to them or are you happy to both be together obviously because it's a treatment
25:00
at the end of the day but they they they were happy to be in together so we
25:03
went through a lot of the things together and we discuss how it might be slightly
25:08
different for each of them so we might do the same sort of.
25:13
Let's just do, let's say we were looking at like a glute release.
25:17
We might do the same thing for both of them, but how each of them needed it
25:21
a slight, done slightly differently so that they could then take that with them,
25:26
like I say, out to the mountains and they were going to get the most out of
25:30
it for themselves really.
25:32
But it was, that was very much sort of centered around them with me giving,
25:38
using my knowledge to help them in the best way that I could rather than me going,
25:42
this is what you have to do and you have to fit into this mold to do that it
25:46
was all how does that feel for you how does that work for you it was all asking
25:52
those questions and getting that feedback for them which I think is really important
25:55
because I could have just waltzed into there and gone,
25:58
yeah right rich dickie you need to do this this is what you've got to do take
26:02
that with you and actually they might have got nothing out of it whatsoever
26:04
so I've just wasted my time I'm wasting their time it doesn't help them in moving
26:09
forwards it doesn't keep them doing what they want to do.
26:13
So it was always ask them for their feedback and ask them what they wanted out of it really,
26:20
fantastic so kind of classic principles of coaching where you're all together
26:24
coming to a plan rather than just handing out like you say a photocopy of a
26:29
textbook or something jenny that's i know you and carl are two peas in a pod
26:33
in many respects but i guess that's that's kind of a leaf out of your book as
26:37
well when you're working with the victors games and even even this year in Vancouver?
26:40
Yeah, absolutely. And I think you have to treat people like that because ultimately,
26:47
you know, like I was saying last time, you have to make your treatments really
26:51
effective because otherwise, you know, people with a disability or who need
26:58
a bit of help, a bit more help from a day-to-day point of view,
27:03
they're not going to get the same response from a treatment or even a stretch
27:09
or even any information that you're giving out as somebody who has two legs.
27:17
You know, it's obviously fairly straightforward.
27:19
I've bumbled that, but you get the idea of what I'm trying to say.
27:23
No, definitely. And Richard and Dickie, I mean, on the actual expedition,
27:28
was it a case of using this quite a lot?
27:31
Were there times where you did have elbows into each other's buttocks without
27:34
going to tell you about yourself? Yeah. Yeah.
27:37
Yeah, I think one of the things that Carla alluded to mention was she gave us
27:40
several incredible first aid kits filled with dressings and scissors and tape
27:45
and, you know, you name it.
27:46
Basically, it was a very complete kit. And there was a little foam roller in
27:50
there, like a tiny little foam roller, and that was the most useful bit of kit
27:54
I had on the entire expedition.
27:56
Genuinely, without that, I may not have finished it because I've got a very
28:00
short stump, and so my hamstring is quite tight because my calf is pulled around
28:04
to the front of my shin bone.
28:05
So when when my hamstring gets tight it pulls
28:08
on the calf muscle which wraps around the
28:11
front of the shin and ends up disrupting cerebral nerves and i
28:14
get really really bad phantom limb pain as in like
28:17
i i don't even want to go on and then just for the five
28:20
minutes rolling gently in the hamstring just kind of pushing any
28:23
of that nonsense out made a huge difference maybe only for half an
28:26
hour but it still made a huge difference and then half an hour later i
28:28
could always do it again so carla i know i've already said it but
28:31
thanks again for that amazing kid that's good to hear that's
28:34
good to hear um that's and also you've just answered two questions
28:37
in 10 seconds which is fantastic i don't know if you saw these questions but
28:40
that directly related to something that nikki mansfield asked
28:44
here let's bring this up on the screen nikki says not sure if anyone knows what happens with
28:46
the innovation of the muscle that is now in a different position does it keep frying as
28:49
it's still attached just does it modify over time so yeah
28:52
you still got you get that do you you still get that that
28:55
what you described those symptoms and yeah interesting good
28:58
question nikki and then also that led in nicely as well to cecily ceci i haven't
29:03
forgot you i've got it down here my crib sheet and but ceci asked this last
29:06
time oh in episode one she said i did ask this on the first episode i know cecily
29:10
thank you i'm sorry i said sorry but how do you deal with phantom limb pain
29:13
itch is it something you can train the brain to overcome which is to stay with you.
29:18
Yeah it absolutely i mean i'm coming
29:22
up for four years since my amputation and phantom
29:25
limb pain is absolutely staying with me to the point
29:27
i'm now seeing a pain specialist to explore
29:30
new treatments and what they're now doing is just i've
29:33
been my gabapentin and giving me deluxitine just
29:37
to see if we can go on top of it but i can look at my foot
29:40
and i'm very much aware that the foot is gone but
29:43
that one little part of my brain isn't getting
29:46
that message and my brain's go-to is my big toenail being pulled off of which
29:50
right now because i'm sat here i'm not being physically active it's having a
29:54
right go at not much i can do to get rid of that alleviate it it's it sort of
30:01
comes in waves it's almost always there in the background but it can increase intensity,
30:06
and it's resting periods which is far worse
30:09
when i'm just sat in there in the evening relaxing getting into
30:12
bed that's when my fans of pains will really creep up
30:15
on me but actually during the track during my you know
30:18
training for archery and i want on my legs i almost
30:21
don't get it you get the odd little electric shock feels like
30:24
a little cattle plot of the sole of the floods just a just a little
30:27
reminder that you know you you had it removed and just yeah almost like a little
30:31
dig at you but yeah there's all different there's different treatments out there
30:34
i can alleviate it by tapping on as close as my perineal nerve as possible and
30:38
that turns into a tolerable pins and needles sensation although that is a very
30:43
brief fix it almost instantly comes.
30:46
Very interesting. And the medication you mentioned, how does that work?
30:50
Neuopathic medication?
30:54
That's right. I'm not going to be qualified enough to understand it.
30:58
I just know at the moment it's doing about probably 50% of what I'd like.
31:02
So before we explore transmuscular re-innervation surgery, we're going to see
31:07
if increasing the dosage will have an effect.
31:11
If not, then there's TMR surgery, radiofrequency ablation, and that would be
31:16
something we can have a discussion about.
31:19
And how about, I mean, anybody who's looked up phantom limb pain have probably
31:22
been drawn into maybe the, I don't want to say exaggerated, but a lot of mirror
31:26
therapy became popular.
31:28
It's kind of been here with pain education and maybe kind of described too much
31:32
as a solution. But did you experiment with that at all?
31:36
I've tried most of them. I've tried looking at photos of left foot and right foot.
31:42
Mirror therapy my my brain will not be tricked into it so yeah we're unfortunately
31:48
increasing the meds to see if that helps mind you you are a raf so i mean what
31:53
if it works easy with army people i'm not sure maybe that's a bit ridiculous
31:56
sorry i don't expect it off with but not yourself,
31:59
i had to get that in there i know that you you're the brunt of his
32:02
humor a lot of the time interesting thank you for sharing that and
32:05
that's that's really good question cecily for you rich potter oh
32:08
sorry kyla no it's all right i was just gonna say from
32:11
a treat from a therapist point of view it's also important
32:14
to understand what can trigger phantom limb
32:18
and what can make it worse and what kind of makes
32:21
it better so depending on the severity of how they get it you can alter your
32:28
treatments accordingly as a therapist but again that comes down to communicating
32:33
with your patient and knowing what they need and what they want and how severely
32:38
they get Phantom Limb, if they get it at all.
32:42
So, yeah, again, comes down to communication, really. So can you give us some
32:45
examples? Can you expand on that?
32:47
Have you discovered triggers that maybe the patient didn't even realize or ways
32:50
to... Well, sometimes people don't disclose that they suffer with phantom limb
32:54
until you might be halfway through treating them.
32:58
And then what you think is working is actually aggravating that phantom limb and making it worse.
33:04
So then you have to change your approach to what you're doing to make it more comfortable for them.
33:10
And like like Dickie said sometimes we might
33:14
do something then he's like oh I can feel that in my foot and I
33:17
can feel that aggravating my foot and that so then
33:19
I need to change my approach a little bit because I don't want to make it I
33:22
don't want him to leave me feeling worse than when he first came in yeah it's
33:27
interesting I mean again if when you look into pain science the phantom phantom
33:31
limb pain is one of the big things which made people like you know Patrick Wall
33:36
and that think about the way pain is an output and a response to the input.
33:41
But yeah, there's also talk of like, because of the homunculus,
33:45
the little guy with big hands, big tongue, and kind of representing the sensory areas in the brain.
33:49
There is research, I think, which suggests that touching a different part of
33:54
the body, which is quite near that kind of homunculus.
33:58
Vestibular kind of image in the brain, then that can relieve symptoms,
34:01
even though maybe scratching, some people will find part of their body could
34:05
be a shoulder, back of the head, anywhere, and that actually relieves the pain
34:08
or the itching in the foot.
34:09
Have you come across that at all? Anybody in the room? Is it something that
34:12
you were taught about or told to look for?
34:16
Or is it just Laura Mosley doing another one of his videos? Sorry.
34:21
There's so much literature out there kind of like showing that we jumped on
34:24
the bandwagon a little bit with paint. Not a bandwagon, but it's been exaggerated.
34:27
The pendulum swung a bit too far. So I just wonder whether it's something which
34:30
you guys have been investigated or perhaps it's not.
34:35
I should have answered Cicely's thing about the itch.
34:40
There is nothing worse than a phantom itch that you cannot scratch.
34:47
It's horrific. I've even had it so intense that I've gone to scratch my left
34:53
foot with my right one, because it's felt that real.
34:57
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you feel like a right idiot after three years of
35:01
not actually having the foot and still going to try and scratch it.
35:04
Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I can't even imagine it, but it must be infuriating.
35:09
Rich Potter, any experiences along Phantom Limpaing?
35:13
Yeah, so the first three years, post-amputation i
35:16
didn't really get it and i was quietly very smug about it
35:19
because i knew amputees who really suffered from it and
35:23
then for whatever reason i think it might have been the increase in training loads just
35:26
before invictus during invictus and then bhutan but lately it's
35:29
been really bad i'm actually the opposite to dicky in that i
35:32
quite like relaxing because you can get aids like this
35:35
sock here it's it's designed to be like a faraday cage
35:38
so they put strips of metal through it which stops
35:41
signals going out but also stops signals coming in so
35:43
anytime i have phantom limb pain i just pop that over my
35:46
stump and it completely kills it it's it's a wonderful bit of kid i try
35:50
and stay off meds in general because i was on meds for
35:53
so long i was like a box of tic tacs and just
35:55
the side effects and everything else just didn't work for me so without going
35:59
down a rabbit hole too much i now take things like thc gummies
36:02
or cbd gummies that kind of thing just to to kill it.
36:04
And they really help and for me it's golden great thank
36:08
you no interesting and again just discovering how did you
36:10
discover that was recommended to you rich or was it through
36:13
your own research yeah they were so i when
36:16
i got back from the victus i was a bit down in the dumps shall we say
36:19
and i called the doctor and he was like oh here's here's
36:22
six months of citalopram and i thought that that can't be
36:25
the answer for anyone who knows what citalopram is i'm sorry it's it's
36:27
a horrible drug but um the side effects are awful and i
36:30
was determined to find something else so a buddy of mine who was actually a coach
36:33
of athletics said hey try thc i had never
36:36
drunk in my life i'd never smoked in my life never done drugs
36:39
in my life so it was a huge deal for me to want to go across to that side but
36:42
um having been doing it for about 12 months now on
36:44
and off it is an absolute game changer for me i appreciate
36:48
it there you go right then
36:51
let's let's let's talk about the expedition because we've left a few people
36:55
hanging got some images here which you can kind of talk us through a little
36:59
bit as and when they come up so i mean what i've asked this before but i think
37:03
the audience wants to know what made you pick that trek i mean did both of you
37:06
just kind of think well let's just find the toughest thing out there and do
37:09
it because i don't think they come harder, do they?
37:11
It was a Google search to start with.
37:14
You just look for what's the toughest, most ridiculous kind of goal to have
37:17
in terms of, yeah, just in life and that. What hadn't been done before. Really?
37:22
Okay. And that's as simple as that. And you both look to each other.
37:25
Yeah, that'll do. That's too old.
37:28
So actually, to be truthful, Dickie suggested we do half of it and then we go
37:31
to Costa Rica and do a coast-to-coast in Costa Rica.
37:35
But just due to expenses and general cost, it was just impossible.
37:38
So we were like, well, why not just do the full snowman?
37:41
And that was it. So it was either Bhutan or Costa Rica. but given
37:44
that we had read an eight was it an 84 year old woman had just finished
37:47
the coast to coast in costa rica we were like well it's challenging
37:50
but clearly it's not that challenging so we need to do something that's really hardcore
37:53
um it's pretty high up there oh yeah and talk us through i'll bring up some
37:59
images now if this is the podcast and this is where you might you might want
38:01
to skip to you to have a look there's only a few images but you know photo tells
38:04
a hundred thousand words or something yeah give us an idea you two what memories
38:08
come when when we're showing these photos on here?
38:11
That was pretty much our, you know, the one on the left is our daily wash stroke
38:16
cold water therapy for our legs,
38:19
in glacial rivers, which were about three, four degrees, if I recall something
38:24
about that. It's pretty fresh. Yeah, they were freezing.
38:28
And it gives a fairly accurate, I suppose the landscape changed as the trek
38:31
went on, but I mean, it's not just trekking, it's trekking over what seems to
38:36
be an incredibly unstable surface as well.
38:38
Yeah, it's not forgiving. It's not forgiving.
38:44
That's the bit that we were not prepared for as amputees. You know,
38:46
we did lots of walking on treadmills out on the coast in Norfolk and did a bit
38:52
of running and that kind of thing.
38:53
We were so little prepared for the terrain and what that surface was like.
38:56
It was, I think, maybe two hours into the trek on day one, we both looked at
38:59
each other and just thought, what would we let that to attend to?
39:02
Yeah, I mean, you can read, you know, articles on the internet,
39:06
textbooks stuff of that and it gives you a
39:10
tiny idea of actually what you're
39:13
going up against you know we were i don't know we watched so many videos people
39:17
who have previously done it or you know or at least attempted it and it's only
39:23
when you get there that you realize an amputee shouldn't be there you know for
39:26
a you can see why so few people do it every year it's yeah an amputee has zero right to be there.
39:33
I think we count ourselves very fortunate that we even had the opportunity to
39:38
do it, yet alone to get as far as either of us did.
39:42
I guess that was the main drive behind it, wasn't it? You wanted to raise awareness
39:45
and show what people with amputations can do and also raise money for plasma, wasn't it, as well?
39:53
Yeah, absolutely. And also to prove to ourselves that we are just as capable
39:58
as any able-bodied person.
40:01
Well, more, let's face it.
40:03
I think you've superseded that a little bit. You could have done a million and
40:07
one things, but yeah, you definitely proved that.
40:09
Yeah um there's a wonderful quote here which i think i
40:12
did last time but it was just following you on instagram and and
40:15
hearing about your progress and that and this just was such
40:17
a great quote it's i'll read it out now for the listeners it says um
40:21
so far we've trekked over some of the most mentally challenging and
40:24
demanding terrain and amputee can face boulder fields loose
40:27
stones and rocks slippery scree slopes river crossings
40:30
steep ascents and descents and a few yaks along the way it has tested our mental
40:34
fortitude to the max watching each and every step precisely placing our prosthetic
40:38
foot for the best grip step after step after step but we push on step by step
40:44
day after day and then ah but then yeah let's go to it i think the next photo,
40:50
yeah next photo i said off there i didn't want to bring this up but i think
40:53
it's an important part of it so yeah talk us through what happened dickie right
40:57
yeah that was a very bitter pill to swollen so we were,
41:03
was it day 12 Rich? Day 11? Day 12?
41:08
We just had our we'd just done the half snowman had a rest day,
41:14
that was a short 6km a day but woke up in the morning to put my leg on couldn't
41:20
fit in my first prosthetic couldn't fit in my second,
41:23
put my oldest prosthetic I had with me on which was over a year old and I couldn't
41:27
fit in that severely swelled up.
41:32
Rich's pace was phenomenally quick actually to
41:36
be honest it was probably average pace i was phenomenally slow
41:38
because every step was agony
41:41
the swelling you know i forced my leg in because the only way to the to the
41:48
road which was the only place between the start and the finish line for the
41:51
resupply to continue uh yeah it was it was a downhill day as well and downhill
41:57
for amputee is just hell on earth anyway.
42:00
Up hill is actually surprisingly easier.
42:03
But yeah, I got in 20 to 30 minutes behind Rich, and he saw it as I was walking out back.
42:09
I was wincing with every step, and it's just...
42:13
None of my sockets were fitting. And at that point, we had a good three-hour
42:19
discussion between Rich and myself, our guide passer,
42:23
and to the point that I even phoned my wife back in the UK and basically said,
42:29
well, I'll bump down crying. I always said I'd never cry on social media.
42:33
I like to think I've got quite good mental fortitude on stuff like that.
42:38
But yeah, it ruined me. I felt a complete,
42:41
utter failure at the time, which was brilliant
42:45
in concern with me but i you know it had an effect
42:47
on him as well because we knew that for safety
42:51
for my own safety for rich's safety for the crew's safety that withdrawing was
42:56
the the only option left to push on so the the next day when i got the helicopter
43:02
in to rescue me so it would have been taking crew and horses to get me out the
43:06
horses are rated to 50 kilos I was carried to 50 kilos well I'm over that.
43:11
So yeah I was also the heaviest on the crew so you know with the shorter stature
43:17
of the Bhutanese people tower over them so trying to get in an armpit only two
43:22
of them would have been a challenge alone,
43:24
and that's when we made a decision that yeah I was I was going to withdraw head
43:30
back to a hotel and Rich refused to,
43:33
go any further until he knew I'd actually booked a
43:35
flight back to the UK and I was going home to be safe with my family to
43:38
recover and that was difficult for me because
43:41
i believed in what we were doing to raise the money for charity to empower other
43:47
amputees and people with disabilities of what is still possible i mean just
43:50
watch him the next day set off by himself and not to actually be there to support
43:55
him that was another pill i had to try and swallow and that was another emotional,
44:01
four four hour car drive along was basically the edge of the mountain with just
44:06
sheer vertical drops that was more terrifying than half the trek to be honest,
44:10
but yeah that was awful moments for me very painful it took me several weeks to get over.
44:18
Yeah and and as as as we discussed
44:21
and you've already kind of mentioned very difficult for you rich
44:24
as well because like your best mate there you can't do it and you're
44:27
thinking oh do i go on what do i do you know it must be very tricky for you
44:31
as well to make decisions and continue yeah it was tough and i think we both
44:35
left camp the same day as we often did and then we kind of we tend to drift
44:40
apart during the middle part of the track and then we come together for the
44:43
kind of last straight, which was lovely.
44:44
But on this particular day, I think after about 200 meters, I was out in front
44:48
and I would occasionally glance back to watch Passauer Guide drop back to kind
44:52
of pick up the slack a little bit.
44:53
And I remember we stopped maybe two or three K in and I said to Passauer Guide, he's done.
44:59
I said, I'm telling you now he's done. And Passauer was like,
45:01
no, no, no, he's fine. He's fine. I was like, he's done.
45:03
I know Dickie well enough. I can see it in his face. He's defeated, you know, he's broken.
45:08
And he kind of valiantly lurched into camp. And I could see how difficult it
45:12
was because his face was, you know, it was excruciating pain.
45:15
And it's not something that I'm ever willing to experience.
45:18
I'm lucky in that respect. But we then had a pretty emotional conversation.
45:23
It kind of, we went back and forth again, like a pendulum.
45:25
And it was very difficult to make a finalization. So I basically said,
45:29
you need to speak to Tony because Tony's the only one who can talk sense into you.
45:33
And the only one that you're going to listen to at this point,
45:34
because it doesn't matter what it's passing.
45:36
I say, you know, your health and your personal safety has to come first.
45:39
And I think, without dancing around the subject, yes, it was very difficult for me.
45:43
And I was able to kind of crack on and do it. I was lucky I had Passer.
45:47
Passer was an amazing guide. He started as a guide. He ended as a friend. So that was great.
45:50
But I think what Dickie hasn't said is, and I was very glad to find this out from Passer, a guide.
45:55
When he got home to the UK, he was told his dog had to be put down a couple of days later.
45:59
So I believe there was a little bit of fate there from the universe that was
46:02
bringing them back together just to say goodbye when I asked.
46:04
So that was a consolation that I took from that. And it kind of helped me propel
46:08
myself to the finish line.
46:10
Which you did get to. And yeah, I mean...
46:15
You did manage to still set, well, two records. The finish line was the third
46:19
one, but you still managed to get to the halfway point.
46:21
And I think the monastery was a place to get to as well before.
46:25
So you still walked away with three things that had never been done before.
46:28
And I think I messaged you on, Dickie, on Instagram. I'm sure I hope you got
46:32
loads of messages and stuff.
46:33
But to show how difficult something is, sometimes there's got to be a fail,
46:37
isn't there? There's got to be something.
46:38
You took yourself to the limit. You demonstrated that.
46:41
Sometimes people finish. It's like, yeah, I finished. but you can talk about how difficult it was.
46:45
But when you get to the stage where you physically can't move any further,
46:48
it kind of shows on paper, I've taken myself to 10 out of 10. That's it.
46:52
I don't know whether that's consolation or not, but that's how I read it anyway.
46:56
Yeah, like I said, it took a while to get over that feeling of failure.
47:01
And I had many people tell me that you didn't fail. You still went on and attempted
47:07
something that no other amputees or any disabled people have ever attempted before.
47:13
And i've sort of taken out you know and realized that you know
47:16
this is just proof that you know
47:19
it was a world record attempt it wasn't a given and that
47:21
is how it is for amputees you know not every day
47:24
is a given for us there is no certainty that your leg is going to play ball
47:27
my mind my body everything was still good to go for that track if my leg had
47:32
only just got that message i you know i'd like to think me and rich would have
47:35
been able to cross that line together i was definitely there with him in spirit
47:38
i just couldn't be there physically yeah,
47:42
it's an incredible okay it's an incredible occasion some amazing photos and
47:46
the stories and yeah hopefully i'm sure there will come a book or something out of it eventually,
47:52
although so we were talking last time how did you guys find it we were talking
47:56
to dan metcalf last week about all the things he's done again just to raise
48:00
awareness There's money, much needed money, funding in his case of spinal research, and there's,
48:06
to help people in similar situations.
48:08
But did you feel that not as much aid was there as you could have,
48:14
how can I put this politely, powers that be who have got money to invest?
48:19
I mean, Dan suggested they're the only one to know once you've finished,
48:22
once you've got something for them to sell papers or whatever it is.
48:24
But during it's when you need the funding. And it was a big thing for you, wasn't it, funding?
48:28
Oh, yeah. Yeah, this wasn't cheap.
48:31
The whole trip was around about 28 000 pounds it was
48:34
a lot of money and we were lucky that we had one big financial backer
48:37
in norwich bar and cook and then we had a couple of smaller companies
48:40
give us some some money and some kit and stuff so it was
48:43
very well received but you know you can't just do stuff like that
48:45
it takes an awful lot of planning and i have to say we we
48:48
kind of thought that we were getting a little bit of coverage in the uk and we were
48:51
kind of reasonably happy and then we got to boot time and we
48:54
were literally rock stars the entire time we were there we had
48:56
like random people coming up and taking selfies and saying oh we
48:59
saw you on social of media what you're doing is amazing and i think
49:02
because they live there they understand how difficult it is and also
49:05
they don't see disabled people it's not really in like a
49:08
normalized thing in bhutan so for them it was such a
49:11
huge deal and then you come back to the uk and they're like oh cool good
49:14
for you they don't really understand how difficult it was and
49:16
you know what we went through to get there but they will eventually
49:19
i'm sure yeah i think they just saw two guys
49:22
saying yeah we're doing the most challenging trek in
49:25
the world but because nobody's ever heard of a snowman track i
49:28
mean we i'll be honest we never heard of it until you know
49:31
it came up on google and i said you do
49:34
the research it doesn't even come
49:37
close to actually being there i think that's you
49:40
know that's why we it didn't go as far as we'd like
49:43
it to have nationally i just don't think yeah not enough not.
49:46
Enough information on this track and just how difficult it was
49:48
particularly for two disabled people yeah i
49:52
mean i think you're being very kind it's true we don't
49:55
know about the snowman trip but the powers that be
49:58
know very much about disability and raising awareness and empowerment and
50:01
trying to should be putting money behind this sort
50:04
of thing because you know the goal at the end and and
50:07
that they don't it's just annoying it's frustrating matt do
50:11
you know what we were most surprised about during the whole process the number
50:14
of big wigs that we were introduced to
50:17
to speak to like heads of businesses and companies who in
50:20
person pledged us all the support in the world
50:23
and they would give us money and they would facilitate this and that
50:26
and then when push came to shove we got absolutely nothing from them and that
50:29
was really disheartening for us because a it's the first time we've done it
50:31
and b you you take somebody at face value you know that's how you trust them
50:35
especially if they're in that level of responsibility so they're saying this
50:38
is what we're going to do for you and two weeks later oh no sorry we can't do
50:40
it that was difficult to take wasn't it well yeah it was a right yeah kick in the teeth,
50:46
It's hard to sort of accept that, you know, when somebody seems so in front
50:50
of you, so on board with what you're doing and want to back you.
50:55
But then here's our email address, here's our contact details. You get in touch.
50:59
And there were occasions we didn't even get a reply back.
51:04
Okay, this is getting me frustrated. But I think I just wanted that to be on
51:07
the podcast because if any people are listening,
51:09
there's any, what's the word for people who just want to help and be nice and
51:12
can't remember who they are, just wealthy altruists,
51:14
basically, who do want to put some money in a good way and yes
51:18
that's the one philanthropist thank you rich i'm so
51:21
educated for army it's brilliant yeah exactly he's
51:25
paying me tonight i think he is by the way yeah no philanthropists if there
51:29
are philanthropists out there i just wanted this message to be here on the podcast
51:31
because it's like where else do you put money if not for something like this
51:35
i mean i know there's lots of people well no there's not enough people there's
51:37
lots of things going on but yeah this would have been a classic case where it could help Anyway,
51:41
let's finish on a downer.
51:43
But since then, the response has been good. I think definitely you,
51:47
Dickie, you've been involved in conferences, presenting and getting the word out there.
51:53
Is that as a result of this, has it kind of helped you get more of a platform?
51:58
Yeah, a little bit. I'm very fortunate that one of our sponsors,
52:01
who also my legal team for my claim from my injury,
52:07
I've done a few bits of work with them, and it's now led me to doing prosthetic
52:11
and amputation conferences over the last month and going into next month.
52:15
It's nice to sort of be able to share and spread the word of life as an amputee,
52:21
the challenges we can face, but actually it's not all doom and gloom.
52:25
Yeah, good message. definitely that was definitely one of
52:28
the great messages therapy expo and rich i've entered into
52:31
a partnership with ethanol care who are a canadian prosthetic supply
52:35
company so they like produce a liner that makes it much more comfortable a great
52:38
bit of kit and they've been very supportive of me so it's quite cool that we
52:41
can work together i've got a couple of corporate gigs in london next month which
52:45
is cool but next week i'm presenting awards at the army annual sports awards
52:49
which is mega and that is solely due to the fact that i did the the snowman
52:53
try to kind of pick me up from,
52:55
oh can you come along and present so it's definitely opened up doors but it
52:59
probably hasn't helped where we wanted it to help and that was enabling society
53:03
to look at disabled people in a better light i think we did a lot of garbage
53:06
but um our time will come i'm sure.
53:09
Yeah no that's the way that's the i mean that's been the message our time
53:12
will come sums it up because you're both such hard work and you're doing so
53:15
much good so yeah that's good the way to look at it it will come but
53:18
yeah people they could do with a little bit of help as well along the way it
53:21
will come but let's make it get there a bit quicker well look
53:24
we're running out of time it's 8 59 really appreciate you
53:27
guys sharing so much um and also carl and jenny i
53:30
mean you're sitting there and and i don't mind not asking you questions now
53:33
because i know that you both very much i mean part of the
53:35
reason you're such great therapist is you take the back seat you prefer to be
53:39
in the shadows but hearing rich and dickie must must be warm for you it must
53:44
be thinking especially when they're celebrating the good times what they've
53:46
managed and the positivity team you must be sitting there thinking this is why
53:49
I love working you know in this industry it is it's hard I think,
53:55
I mean, when I saw that video of Dickie, I cried. I'm not going to lie.
53:58
I sobbed because I knew how much they'd worked and how hard it was for both
54:02
of them, not just for him to sort of make that decision to walk away,
54:05
but obviously for Rich to keep going as well and not being able to talk to them
54:10
as well. It's really hard.
54:12
But obviously he spoke to them when they came back and I did see them both when
54:15
they came back as well, which is good.
54:16
So yes, we go through the highs, but we also go through the lows with them as well.
54:22
So it is challenging but rewarding
54:25
at the same time so you you
54:29
kind of if I didn't enjoy what I did I wouldn't do
54:31
it like I'm there through the good times I'm there through
54:34
the bad times and that's that's what I signed up for that's
54:37
what I did so good
54:40
she's so good and Jenny for you similar I guess
54:43
celebrating the highs and the lows but ultimately so that we can finish on a
54:48
positive note it must make you very warm seeing what they're looking at the
54:51
achievements and how you play the park even if it wasn't directly in preparation
54:54
for this just the industry you're in or how much you give it must be rewarding
54:57
to see the highs yeah absolutely a hundred percent and i,
55:02
think as well the thing not to underestimate is that
55:05
not only have these guys been through
55:08
the difficulty of of having to recover from
55:11
the trauma of their injuries but then still being able to have
55:14
the being able to think of
55:17
other people and wanting to help improve the
55:20
way that people view disabilities it's it's just I think
55:23
it's phenomenal and I think they're they're just
55:26
very warm-hearted open people who who can tackle stuff like the snowman trek
55:33
just you know like it's a walk in a park and I think that's the problem is people
55:38
you think that that it's easy because they tackle it with such courage, really.
55:45
And it's obviously not. Crazy.
55:49
Well, there are so many more things we wanted to talk about tonight.
55:52
We did want to, who was it? Somebody asked a question about strength training,
55:55
which we just haven't had time to talk about.
55:56
We were going to look at some of the strength in rehab and then AF as well.
56:01
Maybe we'll do that another time.
56:03
Carla, it'd be nice, actually. Yeah, we'll talk about that. But it'd be interesting,
56:06
strength and conditioning, which these guys have used.
56:09
And how again we talked off how it's very individual but yeah
56:12
sorry i didn't get to ask you that tracy adapting exercise
56:15
rampanties but we've run out of time i'm afraid i'm sorry about that um and
56:19
there's plenty other ones talk about but hey um we will get together i'm sure
56:23
sometime soon and especially as both of you guys exciting stuff coming up which
56:27
we didn't mention either i mean dickie there's your acting we didn't talk about
56:29
we'll leave that as a little hook in there no we can't do that anyway because
56:33
it's embarrassing for you now i think that was a really interesting point what
56:35
are you up to tomorrow dickie even though it was sprung on at the last minute what are you up to?
56:38
Yeah I'll keep it short I am a casualty simulation role player so I play a blown
56:43
up soldier to help train British and foreign forces in battlefield trials to save lives,
56:49
So I'm as low as you can get on the actor scale. I was there. And she's good for that.
56:53
That's cool. So in other words, you're preparing servicemen to be aware of what
57:01
it's going to be like when a situation like this arrives and not to kind of,
57:03
you know, to be conditioned to it. Absolutely.
57:07
Fantastic. Amazing. And Carly, you had some experience with that as well, didn't you? What was it?
57:12
Yeah. So we, when I did my pre-hospital qualifications, we had some casualty
57:17
simulated actors come in so that as part of our training, again,
57:21
you're taught how to deal with that.
57:24
And it's a much more realistic scenario than just having a dummy on the floor
57:28
to practice with because they actually talk to you, they scream and shout.
57:33
And so, yeah, it's a useful, useful training aid, really.
57:38
Yeah, it's just kind of the extreme end of getting people used to something
57:41
that's different. I mean, we all got the natural tendency for humans is to fear
57:44
something we're not used to.
57:45
And I guess, you know, body shape, even everything is something not the same
57:49
as us. And naturally we show fear.
57:51
But once you've had a conversation and met some people, whether it's number
57:54
of limbs or skin color or anything, you realize there's a human at the end of
57:57
it. And you should have no reason to be worried.
58:00
It's just talking it through. So, yeah, it's interesting to hear that.
58:03
Right. I don't want to keep you for any longer than we should do. if people are
58:06
interested in keeping in contact with you guys rich
58:09
pot on instagram apputee underscore rich all these will
58:12
go into the links as always in the show notes i definitely recommend you
58:14
follow these guys to keep up to date although they've got so many so much
58:17
interesting stuff moving forwards as well and you might even want to help and
58:20
play a part in that rich davis or rich dickie davis
58:23
instagram right foot rich follow him there the
58:26
limitless expedition particularly if you want to go back and follow the story
58:29
some amazing stuff on there which i would recommend you have a look through
58:32
that's the underscore limitless with b obviously underscore expedition and then
58:37
carla on instagram as well some making stuff out there sports therapy by carla
58:41
and then jenny lane on instagram.
58:44
Check out Instagram, really. It's goodbye Facebook, your history.
58:47
Jenny Lane Instagram at JennyLane.SportsMassage. Follow Jenny there.
58:52
So thank you so much. That brings us to the end of an incredible month on information
58:57
and working with athletes with disability.
58:59
So thank you guys very much again for doing it twice in the month. Really appreciate it.
59:04
And that's Rich Potter, Rich Dickie Davis, Kylie Bickerstaff and Jenny Lane.
59:09
And also to the other guests who joined us during the month,
59:11
Sam May and Gemma Barnes, the team UK athletes recently returned from Victor's Games.
59:15
25, Dan Wills, Dan Metcalf, last week's episode.
59:19
And also Nicola Hunt, Specialist in Neurological, Vestibular and Vestibular Physiotherapy.
59:23
And Dr. Catherine Dawson, who was with us last week, who's a consultant clinical neuropsychologist.
59:28
Amazing. Thank you, everybody.
59:31
And I started off this episode, I'm not sure if I said it live,
59:33
but that's it. I think you guys have had it too good for too long.
59:36
So I'm not having any guests anymore.
59:38
I am going to have guests, but i'm not going to bombard you with
59:40
quality like this every week and then do something
59:43
else the week after because the shelf life is just too small i've
59:46
been feeling guilty for quite a long time there's so much in this episode
59:49
for people to take home and reflect on and act on and
59:52
think about and pass on to other people you can't do that in six days if i'm
59:56
gonna suddenly give you something else like you thought this was good you know
1:00:00
have this as well so as i mentioned before we are gonna not take a pause we're
1:00:04
still gonna be here but we're gonna i'm gonna start a series of shorter 30 to
1:00:07
40 minute episodes called Reflection,
1:00:10
which has got a chance for therapists to come in and basically chat with me
1:00:14
for 30 to 40 minutes about a past episode of the show, which has caused them
1:00:18
to reflect and has affected their clinical practice.
1:00:21
So I think Nikki was in here. Yeah, Nikki's here and Nikki's going to be my
1:00:24
first clinician for next week.
1:00:26
Nikki's going to be coming in and I think I've got a little part of my artwork up here.
1:00:31
There we go. Nicky's going to be coming in and chatting with me.
1:00:34
Very informal, nice chit-chat with Nicky Mansfield about an episode which was
1:00:39
with Alistair Beverley.
1:00:40
Nicky's taking us back to 21st of February, 2023, which was episode 137 of the
1:00:46
podcast, which was where Alistair Beverley, the learning disability physio,
1:00:49
talked about healthcare for people with learning disabilities.
1:00:53
So yeah, I'm hoping this will encourage people to look back at past episodes.
1:00:57
And I'm sure there'll be people who want to talk about this episode and reflect
1:01:00
on it, and we will get some of this information not to disappear in the past,
1:01:04
basically. We'll bring it back up.
1:01:05
So thank you, Nikki, if you're still in here. I hope you haven't forgotten.
1:01:07
That's going to be next Tuesday.
1:01:09
Same format. Join us people live if you can.
1:01:12
Even more so if you're a clinician, we'd love to hear Nikki's take on that episode.
1:01:16
And if there is a particular episode, you've got 244 now to choose from.
1:01:21
If there's a particular episode, including any of these last four,
1:01:24
which has affected you as a clinician, and you'd like to come on and chat about
1:01:28
it, then just hit me up matt at runchatlive.com or matt at the sta.co.uk
1:01:33
either those will work um as long as you've got a decent internet connection
1:01:37
well you must have a decent connection and a mic and a webcam and you're happy
1:01:41
coming on and chatting with me just me very relaxed then i'd love to hear from
1:01:45
you because that's what we're going to do for the next few months,
1:01:47
so yeah let me know if you're interested in that.
1:01:51
Anyway that's it people thank you once again um carla and dickie and jenny and
1:01:55
rich really appreciate your time and yeah thank you so much i'm really looking
1:02:00
forward to looking back on all four of these episodes,
1:02:04
and hopefully if you have if you are listening to these people then
1:02:07
do try and spread them do try and give them to a colleague into a
1:02:10
friend give them to a family member just send them the link make sure it's something
1:02:13
they're going to listen to spotify apple youtube whatever that person favors
1:02:17
so it really is worth getting out there thank you everyone thank you everyone
1:02:21
who joined us live as well really appreciate it and hopefully see some of you
1:02:25
next tuesday which will We'll be here for the first.
1:02:28
It's not a joke or anything. We will be here for the first at eight o'clock
1:02:31
on YouTube. In the meantime, take care of each other. Bye-bye.
1:02:34
Music.