Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.291: Why We Should All Go See Skilled Estheticians, Not Only Dermatologists Ft. Sarah Akram

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E.291: Why We Should All Go See Skilled Estheticians, Not Only Dermatologists Ft. Sarah Akram · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
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• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, welcome back.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm so glad you're back.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: And today I have an amazing guest, and I'm super excited to be hosting her because I know that we're gonna learn a lot, and um, she's highly sought after in the industry.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Sarah Akron.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: She is a board licensed master esthetician.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: She is also a celebrity esthetician, um, and she's one of the skincare specialists and experts on the East Coast.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome to the show.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Sarah, I'm so excited to be hosting you and um to have this opportunity to learn from you.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to be a part of this.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I'm excited to uh, you know, have this happen, this interview.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to get started by really um letting you kind of uh, you know, guide the story and start us off with where it all began for you, you know, in terms of getting involved in skin health and um what you know, where where did that whole journey begin?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh, it's um I wish it was more of an interesting story, but it it's something I just kind of accidentally fell into.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: I was always into makeup and skincare growing up.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: It was something that I felt I felt that I had a knack for, um especially makeup.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was it was something that I was pretty skilled at it naturally at a at a young age.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think it started with makeup, and then as I, you know, was getting older, it was slowly transitioning into skincare.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: I was working as a receptionist from within a business, and um it was a skincare business, and also it was it was just this um uh hair salon, actually, that was close to my house while I was in high school.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: And there was a woman that was renting space from within the the uh hair salon, and she was a talented esthetician.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I had no idea back then what a facial even was.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: If it was it, I didn't know it was a career path.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was curious about it and I asked her a lot of questions about it because I saw that you know clients were booking with her, and um she was like, Yeah, let me give you a facial one day.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so I went ahead and had my first facial at like age 15 or 16.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: I started working there quite young, and I thought it was the most amazing thing that I've ever had done.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, this is amazing.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: I can't believe this.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so um that's that's where that that was when I was first introduced to it, and that's what kind of like you know, took me from the cosmetics and the and the makeup and it transitioned into more skincare for me.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so I still went to college, I I I studied economics, and then um, and then I started to support my way through college.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: I was working um just doing administrative work and and and doing uh front desk for a well-known plastic surgeon close to to my college.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I I did that for a while, and then I decided to start going to esthetician school.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so I went to to esthetician school and you know, got licensed while I was still in college, and you know, I just stuck with that career path.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: I actually never end up pursuing a career in in you know whatever it was that I was studying in college and in economics or or any of that.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: I just I just stuck with the skincare.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you um, you know, it I find it to be always interesting um with women who are obviously you know very intelligent and they can go any right route they want.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And especially, you know, when we talk about skin health, everyone's like, well, you either go into dermatology or you go into these fields that are like, you know, like you have an MD or you, but uh, you know, I'm glad that you picked the route that you knew it, you know, was what you wanted to do.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: That is what's like I I think a lot of people listening, especially the youth now, like they have a hard time with that, you know, they get wrapped up in like all these other things that you really don't need to be able to become like the expert that you're wanting to be, you know, down the road.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I I agree.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: I was just talking to a young girl um who's still in high school and she's trying to figure out what she wants to do.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, I'm just so confused.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I want to do skincare, but I don't know if I want to be like a nurse practitioner doing like the injections.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I want to be a dermatologist, I don't know if I just want to be an esthetician.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so there there is a bit of confusion out there, and I mean, I hope I was able to help her um kind of shed some of that confusion, but yeah, it's it it can be a broad field.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: So with me, I knew I I knew that for me it was all about like high touch, and um it it it I knew that this was the right path for me.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I I I love that, and I also love that you mentioned that you know you had like an exposure to it from um another person that was able to show you the reality of the profession, you know.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's another thing.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was I think I was on an episode with somebody else, and I remember growing up, and it was like so rare for me to find like a female doctor that I could like learn from or like shadow.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I used to like crave that, you know, like just to be able to like relate to them and especially as women, like you know, uh in education and all these things, like we have to be giving back.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really excited to see that you mentor um people as well.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's really cool.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, definitely.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: So next, I I have a you know, obviously, my my biggest question is gonna be about you know, just really your approach to skin health.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I want to begin talking about that with you with this like overview, if you could like help us with that.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know, you know, in the industry there's obviously a lot of words, there's a lot of people talking about, you know, what we need to do to optimize our routines, etc.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: etc.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um, you know, it everyone needs a starting place.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I I would love to get your insight on that.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, uh, what do you see as a professional and as someone who's seen people's skin like day in and day out?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Where where do you think we should all really begin when it comes to approaching skin health?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think that, you know, I think a good place to start is by instead of playing the guessing game of like what products am I supposed to be, you know, using on my skin and you know, going into these huge stores where it could be so overwhelming or just being on the internet where it could be so confusing because there's so many options, I think it's good to find a reputable, you know, skincare specialist or expert such as myself.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or it doesn't even have to be somebody like on you know my level exactly, but like finding someone that that has a good reputation in your in your community.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's not a bad idea to start there because I think that's that's gonna in the long run be a wise investment because it's gonna eliminate a lot of the confusion.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: And um the specialist can help to curate a treatment that is bespoke to your skin and help to you know curate a at-home routine that's bespoke to your skin.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I think that that's a good place to start.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes some of these places you don't even have to get a service done.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes, especially now after the pandemic, they offer, you know, consultations, like virtual consultations and things like that.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's not a bad idea to ask someone that is licensed in the field, see if you can get some kind of a virtual appointment, if not a service, um, to make sure that you are on the right path for your skin specific skin needs.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that actually is, you know, it's very, very interesting that you say that because I think a lot of people shy away from this idea of, well, you know, let me go to a dermatologist or a anesthetician or someone who really knows because they think like it's gonna be too costly or there's too many, um, you know, there's too much wait time in terms of bookings and stuff.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I love that you're, you know, you're really telling us the truth here, which is you know, you have to have a starting place.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: And what better way to do that than to go to someone who really knows how to start.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, you you could waste a lot of money, you know, playing the guessing game too, by going to these stores and you know, trying these products and they may or may not work, or you know, sometimes in in some cases it can give you a reaction if if you're using the wrong thing for your skin.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so, um, so you know, there's there's I think you know, a risk of uh, you know, associated with playing that guessing game.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're somebody that has, you know, normal skin and you're just looking to take good care of it, um, there are some good basics um that that I'm all about.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: And there are definitely there are definitely um, you know, cost-friendly options out there.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I I just really believe in the philosophy of less is more.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that if you don't have a major skin concern that, you know, using uh, you know, just being making sure you're using a good cleanser, making sure you have a good toner in your routine.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and if these are, you know, you know, I I could recommend good options if if that's something that you know your viewers are interested in.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, absolutely.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I have a I want to ask you though, real quick, like because you mentioned it.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what can you explain the concept of a toner to everybody?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think this is something that a lot of people really struggle with is this um, what is a toner?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: What is an essence?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: How does that play out in terms of after you cleanse and all that?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love for you to comment on that.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then yeah, I would love to hear your your favorite picks and stuff for uh definitely well, these days there's all different types of turn toners, right?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so different toners are um the there's different options.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're somebody that's a very sensitive skin type that you know doesn't respond well to like things that are loaded with too many um active ingredients, like a good option is like micellare water, and so that's something that that you can put on your skin after you've cleansed it just to balance the pH of the skin.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, when you're washing your skin and you and you you know you cleanse your skin with your cleanser and then you wash it off with the water, it's you know, it could be kind of dry, the pH of your skin.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so the toner is supposed to bring that pH back to a normal level.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there are other types of toners as well, astringent toners and exfoliating toners, and those are more to maybe get rid of the buildup on the skin, or if you're somebody that breaks out something to help control acne, um, you know, there are toners that have salicylic or benzoyl in them that will help to break down some of the bacteria in the skin.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: So though there's those types of toners as well.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say that there's toners that are meant to target certain concerns, um, such as acne, but there's also toners that will help to exfoliate your skin, and there's also toners that help to balance the pH of the skin.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really almost like the analogy of like, you know, you cleanse, you have a blank canvas, and then you have to put, you know, kind of like a con like something on it, like some sort of coating on it that really brings it to the the level that you need it to be at, so that you can apply other products and they'll actually work.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: So is that is that correct?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: So so the thing of it is is when you cleanse your skin with water, like water has you know, different chemicals in it, right?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so the last thing that you you put on your skin is water that has all these different chemicals to kill bacteria and things like that in it, then that's the last thing essentially sitting on your skin.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not really well prepped for those following steps, such as like a you know, serum and a and a moisturizer.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: So the toner is just to kind of reset the skin.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the traditional toner, shall we say, is is to just reset the skin, to reset the balance, the pH balance of the skin, so that it has so that you have better um efficacy out of your your serums and your moisturizers.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: But these days there are different types of toners too, like I said.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't know if you've heard of like P50.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh P50 toners have there's different, they all have different purposes.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: There's one for discoloration, there's one for acne, there's one for anti-aging.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: And those those toners have different kinds of enzymes in it that not only are meant to balance the skin, but also have like an added bonus of like maybe exfoliating a skin or or targeting a specific skin concern.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting to me because I feel like you know, um terminology plays such a huge role in any industry, right?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's where people get lost is this idea of like, well, it's a toner, so why is it exfoliating?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Or it's a toner, so why is it moisturizing?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I asked you that question, because, you know, like you said, there are so many products and they're geared for different skin concerns.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um, you know, really for me, the the clarity is in the question um, or asking the question of like, well, what makes up the most basic idea of a toner?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if someone has just, I guess, whatever you would come consider to be normal or combination skin or or just skin that doesn't have a lot of issues, right?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: That need to be like dealt with, like a lot of acne or a lot of redness or sensitivity.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, what are some of the most basic?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know that you mentioned like uh mcellar water is is uh one of the ones that you mentioned.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: So is that like a good starting place?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the reason why I mentioned my micellar water is because you can't go wrong with it.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: You just can't go wrong with it and it does the job.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so if we're if we're it, if you're gonna ask me to make kind of like a generalization of what would be like a go-to without seeing this person's skin, you can't go wrong with micellar water.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that okay, I'm glad you said that.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really glad because I know like, you know, we were talking about P50, and I and I really wanted to clarify that for our audience because there I've known people that use P50 like every day.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, right, you're damaging your skin barrier, like you can't do that.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, you know, that's that's what I meant with the whole terminology aspect.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, I want to move on.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: I want to actually ask you, like, what is your approach?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when a client comes to you, like what do you really what's your um regular kind of I guess protocol that you utilize to assess them and and um kind of understand what they need?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh for me, when I have a client on my table, I ask a lot of questions.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think it's really important to do a thorough consultation with their with your client or your patient and get down to the bottom of what their lifestyle really is.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: What are they using on their skin?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: Have they had any kind of allergic reaction to anything?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Have they, I mean, just the conversation says a lot.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: It spells out a lot.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really important that you listen and hear what that person is saying.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um and, you know, also I have to bring my expertise into it as well because these people are coming to me for a reason.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's not because they have it all figured out.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: They they they're still trying to figure it out.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, I really have to feel the skin and I I have to, you know, pull out that mag lamp and take a look under the the lens, the mag lamp, um, the magnifying lens, excuse me.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I have to, I have, you know, I through my expertise have to make the best assessment of what I think is but the the the best course of action.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel that in the beginning, you can't get over ambitious what what you want to do on a client.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: You have to ease into it and see how it's like a dance, like you have to see what they are responding to.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, I never get overly it's it's a journey, it's not it's a skin journey for most people.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's not something instantaneous that all miracles are done inside of one appointment.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: But as you get to know this person's skin, you know, it it can, you know, then you can start to to really understand what they respond to, how the products, how the regime is working out at home.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how you get to those goals, those those, you know, skin glow uh goals.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: I really like that.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I I love that you mentioned that because it's really comparable to the idea of you know, any good doctor is going to um make sure that they have a as thorough of a patient history as possible.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that applies across all fields, right?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you you need to know as much as you can about people and um you know you need to know what what you need to treat.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that uh, you know, that makes total sense to me from the science perspective.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I want to actually shift into talking more about you and um your training because I know that you've been trained by truly um masters in in this area, and I would love to hear some stories or some uh memorable moments you've had in your in the learning and the practice of you know uh of your your profession and you know anything you can share with us.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um well I, you know, I I have kind of an interesting training background because I was working at a plastic surgeon's office, and so while I was working with the surgeon, I was doing more of like the laser heavy like treatments.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, IPLs, fraxols, BBLs, those kinds of treatments.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, after that, um I worked there for for about seven years or so, and then after there, I did a complete 180 and I started to work at a holistic Ayurvedic spot where there were no machines or devices, and everything was very high touch and all about botanical ingredients and you know, just um these these high-quality ingredients, and it was about it was just really about um uh technique more, and so um and knowing what ingredients to to use on on the client.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, when I decided to do my own thing, you know, I learned a lot from working in the medical field doing this, and I learned a lot from you know, working at more of an Ayurvedic place, and I kind of felt like I could I could merge these two worlds together, like because there's benefits from both, but like, you know, it does it not one area was doing everything, meeting everyone's goals.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so I decided that I was gonna use non-invasive technology with botanical ingredients to help to to to and that was my approach to anti-aging skincare and to healthy skin.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: And also, it's uh I mean, uh, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's more about, you know, when you when you approach any kind of medical uh topic, whether it's skin health or any kind of any organ really, I think it's really important to have a mindset like yours where you're really um using different approaches, but you're optimizing your own approach by you know learning about all the different aspects that come into play.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that that's a that's a theme that is not very often talked about, you know, especially, you know, with uh dermatology being such a clinically based um area of of medicine.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know there's very few drugs that can be prescribed, there's very few real FDA approved options and stuff.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really nice to hear your take on it because I think, yeah, there's a lot of potential definitely in Ayurveda, as we've all seen, you know, and it's it's really cool that you're you know, you're saying that, that you really combined and optimized your your approach.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, I want to know, like, because I obviously, you know, becoming very, very uh recognized in your field, any field is is a truly an upward climb and it's uh you know very challenging.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to hear about some of the hurdles that you had to kind of overcome and and you know what it took to really be recognized as truly an expert and you know get clients that were really people that ended up trusting you with their skin and then just that whole process.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: What was that like for you?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I um oh gosh, it was you know, it it hasn't been easy at times.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like it um for me it how did I get to where I am, essentially, is what you're asking.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's what I'm hearing.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: And um I just honestly um Um, I never really fluctuated too much when I started working somewhere.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: I I really saw it through to the end.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for instance, when I star stopped working at the surgeon's office, it was because he was retiring.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was just like, okay, hey, it's time to try something new.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so I really gave myself time to really become good at what I was doing at any job, even if it was somewhere that I wasn't particularly happy or happy with what I was, you know, doing at this particular place, wherever it was that I was working, I was very committed to making sure that like, you know, I was, you know, there learning there for the experience and just, you know, making sure that I was getting everything that I could get out of that experience.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just, you know, really um have always just been a very hard worker.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I would just get up and go no matter what.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was like very passionate about what I did.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: I loved what I did, and I just wanted to grow in it.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: And um the I always I didn't always know what the destination was going to be, but I just kept on rowing the boat.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: I just kept on rowing, rowing, rowing.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think you have to know where what the destination is gonna be.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think if you keep on rowing, I kind of feel like the the universe kind of brings you the opportunities, you know, because you're you're you're you know, pedaling towards that direction or rowing towards that direction.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so like I think doors do open.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: They it's not an instantaneous thing.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you might get like one door that opens, like, you know, in a year or two, you know what I mean?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: But it could be a big door that opens.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just think that like I've just always been, I think the one thing is just I've been very focused.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I just would always get up and go, even if it was something for something I didn't want to do.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't care.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was just like this, you know, I'm doing this for a reason and I love what I do, and I would just remember that.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's um, I think what's kind of brought me to these like bigger opportunities, because you know, I I think a lot of it has to do with with my work ethic.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's I think that's huge.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really, really solid point.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: I hope everyone out there who's maybe younger in your early 20s or you're coming into your career, yeah, definitely take what Sarah said like very seriously because work ethic is everything.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I think that's something that the new generation really needs to understand is like you can't expect to just like, for example, like launch a business and then be like, okay, well, why isn't anyone buying my products?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you've done the way successful.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: It won't it, you can't fool the public.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I've seen it happen with others, like you know, people right out of school thinking, oh, I can just open up a shop and it's gonna be fine, and then they end up losing their entire investment because it's hard.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard to there's no there's no such thing as overnight success.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: There, there just isn't.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, some some people might see me as an overnight success, but it's been 20 years behind the scenes in the making.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not overnight at all.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so no, I definitely I don't think you know, someone like yours yourself and of your caliber, there's no way you need to put in the work, you need to put in the work, you know, and and I I completely know what you mean.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, this is actually a great leading point into something I really want to know from you because you know I have uh an immense amount of respect and um admiration for for women, especially, right?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: That that are experts in their area.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I often wonder in the skin care industry and the skin health industry how it is for experts these days.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, let's be honest, every day there's a new esthetician or there's a new line or there's a new self-proclaimed influencer that's like I know everything about skin and you need to come to me for a consultation.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think the other day I was on like shop myself, and I don't get me wrong, I love the website.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um we actually utilize it, but I was seeing how you can, you know, you can have like a option to be a consultant.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like consultants for what?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, do you have the credentials?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so you know, I want I want to get your take on that.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is it like?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, now that you've been in this field and you see all these changes that have occurred the last you know few years, uh how do you still maintain um uh this idea that, you know, no, you're a distinguished expert in this area?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, I mean, I went to school for it.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I have a I have a license, actually.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, multiple actually certifications and licenses, and I think that's the thing that sets me apart and people in my profession apart from some of the others that are maybe just influencers or maybe even beauty editors, like they didn't go to school, but they're like putting in magazines all these recommendations.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, so I think that um yeah, I there aren't too many, you know, experts actually.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: If you if if what the unfortunate part is is that the people don't really know that the the people that are the followers and the people that that are the the viewers or the the followers or whatever of you know wherever they're getting their information, they don't, I don't think it may know.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: They don't know that, oh, this person isn't licensed or they don't really have a background in this or they they're not board certified or whatever, they're just kind of pitching a product because maybe some brand, I don't know, um decided to make have some kind of an agreement with them to make them some kind of brand ambassador or something and now they have to push these products, you know.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the consumer just has to has to, you know, be their own advocate and and if you know and and do their research.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, does this person have a background in this to be recommending these things?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, beauty editors and directors most oftentimes I've never seen one that that has been to school, but they they recommend a lot of things and and they tell their readers a lot of what they should be doing with kind of you know nothing to to back it up.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so, same thing with influencers, they do tutorials even online and do YouTube videos and things like that, but they've never been to school for it and don't really know what they're doing, and so um you know, if it's all for fun, then that's great or whatever.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: But if you really have no, but it's not, it's it's turning into an actual thing, you know.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you say that.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I completely, by the way, 100% back up everything that you said because you're absolutely right.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, honestly, this is something, even for me with this podcast, I kid you not, I have to explain this to PR companies that reach out, and I have to explain that like there's a huge difference between um letting an expert come onto my show and explain things in their own way, in their own terms, the way that you know it should be explained, versus sending a story to someone and then they're gonna summarize because that's the game of telephone, right?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's like playing the game of telephone.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're not going to be able to relay the uh perspective of an expert, like that expert can portray for themselves, you know, or or relay in them by themselves, right?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: So that's Yeah, I mean where I'm actually working like people like myself are actually like working on the client.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for instance, myself, I've done over 60,000 facials in my life.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've seen a lot of faces and I've seen a lot of different skin issues.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's like that against somebody who's just like an influencer, there's like a huge difference who's never even worked on someone's skin.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: I totally know what you mean.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, you know, I think that this is something that should be intuitive, but unfortunately it's not.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, in the field of medicine, we already we know, you know, and and physicians know, like you don't overstep the boundaries of your specialization.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: You, you know, if you don't know something, you refer, you know, you refer, refer, refer.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's actually a question I have for you because I know that you've worked with some amazing celebrities.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I know that you're you've been very highly sought after, you are very highly sought after.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to know, you know, what is it that the celebrities know in terms of like how to find individuals such as yourself versus the general consumer?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that's really a place to explore um and make accessible for um people that are on social media rather than them being exposed to all of these other um accounts that you know you don't have any credibility, right?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like I want people to have a place to go to to be able to say, oh, wait, okay, okay, Sarah is somebody I can trust with my skin because of like these reasons, you know what I mean, instead of like just oh, so and so put this on their YouTube.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to ask you that.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do they really kind of get to know about you and then come to you?
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: What is really the process of that if you can tell us?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they have to be looking for it, they have to be searching for it and looking for it.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I I I I really don't know.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good question.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure how how does somebody find, you know, somebody that's an expert in the type of person that they should be getting their skincare advice from versus, you know, somebody that's like just maybe somebody they think is really pretty on on Instagram, you know, and saying, oh yeah, you know, like I I like, you know, this person's clothes and therefore I like their recommendation on, you know, you know, skincare products and and everything else too, you know what I mean?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that's a really good question.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: I I I think you have to be looking for it and you have to do the digging to find like who the experts really are in your area.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, like for me, it I think you were you asked something about the celebrities.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: What were you asking?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just wanted to know like the celebrities, like, how do they come to find out about you and all um, you know, really kind of is it like a word of mouth kind of thing or is it more of you know kind of is, you know.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think, you know, with with you know, celebrities, you know, they're not gonna, you know, they're very, you know, obviously, you know, it they won't just go to anybody, especially if it's right before like a red carpet event.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: So definitely, you know, they they want to look for somebody that you know is is an expert in the field.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so they do go off a rec recommendation.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like an in-network thing.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: So once you've worked on a couple of them, the word you know spreads fast to like maybe some of their colleagues and friends.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so at least that's how it was for me.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so um word of mouth has been a huge thing for me.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I also want to just say to everyone listening, like, I think it's important to um make the statement right now that like, you know, even the people that you follow on Instagram or that you follow on TikTok or whatever, and you know, regardless of what they're telling you, um, a lot of times, especially if in their if they're in the area of beauty for a career, many times they are linked up with spas or um, you know, facilities where there are experts, you know, like aestheticians, doctors, and they can go there and get facials and they can do things that they might not be disclosing to you.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't mean that just because they've picked up five products from Sephora, like I know Sephora's got their big sale going on right now, those are not those products uh may or may not be the real reason why their skin looks the way it does.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: So don't just take that as like a, you know what I mean, like a benchmark of like, okay, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's there's I mean, there's even celebrities that I've worked on that like are in these commercials that are pitching like a certain you know skin thing, but that's not their home regime.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: I I I know that for a fact that that's not what they're using, you know, themselves at home, but it's you know, they've they've got you know an agreement with a certain brand, and you know, they're gonna be in their commercial for for their anti-aging cream or like whatever, you know.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's fine.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm not against that in terms of like you know, endorsing a brand or like getting behind a brand if you really believe in it.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just against the idea of claiming that this is the reason why to great skin.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, agreed, agreed.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: So usually, yes, there's a deeper tail.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: So usually they are going to someone like me to probably get their skin treated.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's that's really why I opened the episode with asking you about that starting place because you know, I'm I'm not gonna lie, with skincare anarchy, you know, I'll be very real with you.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: The I created this platform because I want people to be able to come to this podcast and be like, I know that everyone Ecta is interviewing is somebody that can tell their own story, and based off that, I'm gonna make a decision, based off what I hear directly from that person.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think like if we can have more people just being a little bit more transparent and stop having an ego and let others and let the people who are you know people should be going to, if you let them tell their own stories and you let them, you know, explain to the public why what they're doing is important, I promise you it's going to be a healthier space for everybody.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I I really wanted to say that.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm glad that we are actually chatting because it gives me an opportunity to relay that to my listeners because um, you know, it's it's hard, right?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: You you there's so many social media outlets, there's so many publications, you know, you've got all these editors, which I love editors, but it's like your your realm is journalism, your realm is not, you know, medicine, your realm is not um, you know, being an aesthetician or like any kind of aesthetic work that involves actual scientific knowledge.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: You can relay knowledge, and most of the time, you know, you are consulting dermatologists to even relay the knowledge in your journalism, which is the true, you know, that's the true uh uh, you know, feeling behind good journalism is to uh consult the experts, right?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I yeah.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to ask you, I want to ask you, what was um, you know, what are some of the best uh tips that you have for a lot of people out there that suffer from like I know acne is obviously, you know, it's on the front lines.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's something that everyone at some point their life goes through or experiences.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I would love to hear just um some general tips or tricks you have in terms of like just how to approach, you know, the the overall experience of getting acne breakouts, you know, like as in like should we pick, should we not pick, like what should we be doing when we first see it?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think you leave it alone.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: You leave it alone and just ignore it.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: And the best thing to do is, you know, just let it run its course and resolve itself, unless it's one of those like breakouts where you know all you have to do is give it literally just the slightest little push, the slightest slightest little pressure, and it'll like come out, you know.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but besides that, if it's hard and you have to fight it, forget it.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like leave it alone.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, find yourself a good acne spot treatment.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a big fan of those like LED handhelds and you know the blue light, and I think those are very effective if you have a good one.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: There's one that I use called poly LED, it's amazing.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: Using that and being consistent with it, it really does work.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the thing of it is is people aren't consistent with that stuff.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: They do it like one time and they're like, it didn't work, and they get discouraged.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: You have to do it, you have to stick to the routine.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's um, and if you do, they're very if those devices are very effective, actually.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Ian, you know, I've been meaning to dive into the world of like LED light therapy for skin health.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was actually talking to um uh Shannon Britt the other day of Allura, and he's like one of the best like um like engineering aspect people for making these devices or like really just kind of understanding the science of it.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like trying to explain like the wavelengths and stuff to me.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I find it to be so intriguing, like how it works, you know, in terms of uh uh the real skin health and science of it.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that's cool.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm glad that you uh told us about that.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: And also I want you to give some advice because I know a lot of people are doing are doing at-home treatments that should never be done at home.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: So can you just like I just want you to like take that over and tell us whatever you think is important about that whole topic, just so people are more educated.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: I honestly think less is more.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I do feel like people are overdoing it these days with all the options that are out there.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think that if if you know you're gonna do anything at home, I mean, I I am into the at-home devices, but I'm not into like doing those like at-home microderm abrasion treatments and things like that.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to do like an LED mask on yourself at home, or you want to give yourself a little facial mask at home, I'm all about that.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's fine.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I just uh the the thing that can is concerning to me is like these some of these more invasive treatments that people are doing at home.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: I just think it's it's a bit much and you can really damage your skin.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: And also people, I what I've seen coming into my shop a lot is just people overexfoliating their skin.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's that's not a good thing either, because you could you could, like you were saying earlier, really damage the barrier function of the skin, and you don't you don't want to jeopardize that.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: So people I think less is more.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's all I think it's more about depositing nutrients into your skin than it is about stripping your skin.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's I don't know.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: About building your cells up, not breaking them down.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that makes total sense.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, um with all these new skincare routines coming out and skincare uh companies coming out, you know, it it's not always it's it's like finding what works for you, but like having like I think people need to like have like this, like almost like a like a piece of paper that says like you know, the area, like for example, cleanser, moisturizer, toner, blah blah, and fill in the blank with the one product that you like from whichever line, and that's it.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like just don't go buy like 15 exfoliators, just don't do that.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need that.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, yeah, I agree.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, I I wanna actually so I wanna uh close off the episode and I wanna ask you for any uh advice you have for young women out there and any entrepreneurs or anyone who really wants to make a name for themselves um or is going through it right now, is I know COVID's been very hard for businesses and um even people who are you know kind of doing it the right way, like you mentioned, like going to school and and trying to do it the right way.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: Any advice you have for them?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think um I think for people that are trying to break into the industry, um, you know, obviously find like a really good school in your community.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, if they have an advanced course, um definitely take it.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like if they have like some states I know you have to do additional hours to get more of an advanced license, and I would definitely take advantage of that and get like the higher degree.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, depending on certain states I know offer it and certain certain ones don't don't.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then after that, I would try and really secure a job at a place that has that is a reputable place.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I would ask them, you know, I would ask them what their their you know education program looks like so that you're still continuing to have um ongoing education, even when you you know leave school and you you go somewhere to work.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are they gonna mentor you?
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: Are you just gonna be like left on your own to figure out you know what what you're supposed to be doing?
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because some places don't make a huge investment in wanting to educate their staff.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so education for me is huge.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: My staff, you know, they have to take a lot of continuing education.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would just ask what the shape of that looks like, and I would probably look for those places that really have has a focus on that.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and um, the other thing I would say is, you know, for those people that have ambition to want to start their own business right out of school, I would just say table that and just see if you know you can retain a book of business, how successful you can be working within another business.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, you just have to get a lot of experience because even after 10 years of experience, I don't think that I was ready to to start my own business.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: And now that I'm like 20 years out, like I'm I've been doing this for such a long time.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm I I now that I've worked on all sorts of different types of people, like the celebrities and all the different kinds of people.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm like, wow, I'm so glad I didn't start a business like just 10 years out of, you know, at that point of 10 years of experience.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: I was more at the I was more at the point of having, you know, 15 plus years experience before I even considered starting my business.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that, you know, that that that's why I've been successful.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I've hit the ground running because I I really focused on getting good and um and really understanding skin.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that takes time.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: You can't do that inside of just a couple of years.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think you have to really prove to yourself that you are talented and that you are good and people are seeking you out, you know, where it is, wherever it is that you're working.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and then if you and if you wanna, if you have ambition to do your own thing, just make sure that, you know, just make sure that you are committed to be chained to that table because that's what's gonna happen.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's not like I'm gonna do two or three facials and off to my yoga class I go.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's you really you really have to be committed.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like if you if you want it, you gotta give up a lot of things sometimes.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: You really do.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's in the long run, it it will pay off if you stick to it.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's yeah, that's solid advice.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's real advice.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's no BS, and and I that I love that.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so I'm so thankful to have guests such as yourself because you know, we need more of that.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: We need people who are gonna keep it 100% real, with especially the people younger audience, because they're not getting real advice.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I let's be real.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, people are telling them just BS, like, oh yeah, you're gonna get into the beauty industry, you're gonna become an editor overnight, you're gonna become this overnight.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're not.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: There's no way, you know, for all of us women who have gone through like professional like degree programs and we've, you know, we're licensed.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm telling you right now that you will give up a lot.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I agree with everything you said, Sarah, and thank you for that.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: That was awesome.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, of course.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, everyone listening, I hope you really loved this episode.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely did, and I would love to have you back anytime, Sarah, anytime at all, if you have the time in your schedule.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I really want everyone listening to write, you know, definitely right now.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, go to www.sarahacram.com, which is it's Sarah with an H at the end, and then A-K-R-A-M, all one word.com, and also follow on uh social media.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that's again um at Sarah Accram Skincare.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: So make sure you guys go check out Sarah's website, uh, check out the the social media and the Instagram because this is this is the way that we you know figure out who are the experts, right?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: So here it is.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is your I guess word of mouth.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope you really um check out the website.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have any questions or comments, leave them in the the podcast art episode um or the episode art, sorry, and I will definitely pass them to Sarah's team.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you again, and this has been lovely.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 45:51
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• 46:44
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• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.