Latest / Ben Taylor Podcast / Southeast Asia Yachting Conference | Wade Pearce | Founder of Singapore Yachting Festival
Transcript
- Hi, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of the Ben Taylor Podcast, the home of Marine Industry Insights.Today, we'll be hearing all about Southeast Asia, and quite specifically, yachting in Southeast Asia.Um, we have Wade Pierce on the podcast as a guest to talk all about it.So welcome to the podcast.Ben Taylor, big fan.And, uh, it's, uh- Oh, thank you very much.Yeah, man.I've been, I've been loving- Been following you for ages.Following, big follower.Oh, who's that?Oh, look who's talking to him.Yeah.Yeah, cool.No, good.Thank you.Seeing you around the boat shows and stuff.Yeah, yeah.So, mate, really happy to be your first, uh, first time on here.And hopefully you'll come back again if, uh, if I do a good job.Yeah, yeah.Thank you very much.So, um, so let's have some context.Who are you?What you've, what have you done?Where's all this kind of expertise and insight from?Yeah, so, um, I've been in Southeast Asia for 10 years, and running the boat shows, setting up the boat shows.So for instance, Thailand, back in, uh, 10 years ago.Um, and in Singapore, running the shows, uh, organizing the shows, and then obviously, and then on to the conference.So, um, in that time as well, did a little, uh, consultancy for different brands.Um, yeah, getting in.So, yeah.And what's it like setting up a boat show?What's that journey like?It's been, uh, uh, setting up boat shows is, obviously it's a process to events and things.But Asia is, uh, is another big thing, especially Southeast Asia- Yeah.because you don't have the manufacturing behind you.So, um, you've got a lot of dealers and, and salespeople and things.So, yeah, you, you have to be, uh, knowledgeable about a lot of different things, but not an expert on too many things.Yeah, yeah.So, yeah.So, so am I right in thinking for a lot of the kind of established boat shows, they actually lean on the boat builders themselves having a corporate presence and a lot of the big brokerages who say, "Okay, we're gonna be here," and actually their bill is kind of a bit of a, a stronghold commercially of the whole event.And then obviously, their brand itself brings in attendance.Is that, is that, is that right?Is that true?Yeah, yeah, you're right.So, I mean, we've gone through quite a lot of phases of, uh, um, brands coming in and dealerships, uh, you know, getting involved.And, um, obviously, the ones, and especially over COVID, everyone knows, there's a big boom and everything was going good.Yeah.I think things are back to, uh, what they were pre-COVID.And, uh, I mean, this is now when the, the, the well, uh, resourced brands are being shown, and the dealers who have that interaction with, uh, with the customer base in Asia, um, they're now coming through.And you're starting to see less of, uh, of people who sort of took the opportunity during COVID to, you know, take advantage of the industry.Yeah, the ones who kind of came and, came and went quite quickly- Yeah.it's now back to a normal audience, yeah.And for, for a lot of, so the American market, European market, there's quite a few players going, "Okay, could we, could we be players in this, in the Southeast Asia yachting market?"can you have some, give some context?What is that market like?How can people play in that region?Yeah, so I suppose one of the big things we always see is that everyone sort of looks at Asia as like the next big thing.And it's been the thing that everyone talks about.Yeah.And, and everyone puts their toe in and goes, "Whoa, there's not as much going on as what, you know, we, the opportunity looks."And I think, 1, e- everything's a little bit fractured and, um, and not very, uhI'll use Icomer as an instance.Like, they're very well structured, and you can tell in Europe and in America, you know, there's, there's associations they got.In Southeast Asia particularly, um, it's very disjointed, and that makes it opportunity, yeah, but also progress takes time, and that's the biggest part that we see.Yeah.And so if you're a, an organization, so you're a, so you're a boat builder, you're looking at, let's stick to the Southeast Asian market, because I think it's very easy to go, "Okay, the Asian market."Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.You know what I mean?It's quite a big space, very, very different, and those strategies will kind of differ.Yep.But for the Southeast Asian market, what, what's a good starting point so that organizations can say, "Okay, if we're looking for a presence there and have some of that market share-" Hmm." what's a good, good starting point?"Yeah, I, I think you nailed it just there.Asia is actually way bigger than, you know, you sort of look on a map, especially if you're a, a business coming from, uh, America and Europe trying to look at it, you're like, "Wow, Asia's big."You've got a lot of manufacturing in the north, a little bit in the south, uh, Southeast Asia, but, um, yeah, I suppose when you do look at it, you've got Singapore as a business central hub, um, then you've got these beautiful places in Indonesia and, and Thailand, but they're tourism dex- destinations.So, um, I suppose what we see the most of, especially with Singapore, is that, uh, you know, companies, uh, feel confident to come into there because they're, they're, look, they're, they're not gonnaThey find, find partners there.Um, but the opportunities definitely lie in, you know, Indonesia and, and, uh, Thailand, um, and Singapore, of course, as a hub, but, uh, you know, definitely expanding out to there.And I, I think this is one thing we find with, uh, brands coming over, is that, obviously they've gotta have a five, like 5year plan and things like that, but, you know, getting a, like a solid foundation first, um, and then progressing through.I, I, I use, um, Cargill, um, Seabob as an example.They've got a head office in, um, Singapore, but a lot of their business is done outside of there, like in Thailand, and very rarely would they sell in, but they've used Singapore as their, uh, hub, um, toUh, sorry, not hub, hubs probably the word.Is it like a platform, a starting point?So they almost have a focus on a very specific region in, in Asia- Yeah.and kind of go from there isYeah, I think-a pretty good idea.Yeah.And, and so w- what does the customer look likeI'm gonna leave it as-I mean, there's no question there.So it's nice and open.Like- Yeah.What, what kind of demand are organizations going to experience there?What are the, what are the customers like?Good question.Uh, not to profile things too much, but obviously there's B2B market, B2C.On the B2B side, there is continuous, uh, development in shipyards, refit and repair at shipyards, um, going into all of Southeast Asia, and also marinas.Um, so you see a lot of this happening in master planning.And, um, especially where you see, like, it's sort of tapped out a little bit all over, well, the, the world.Yes, there's more marinas being, um, developed, but Southeast Asia specifically, there's multiple projects happening.Um, and then, yeah- And quite a lot of manufacturing as well.Yeah.Yeah.Not as much, though.Yeah, not as much.So yeah, you've got, uh, especially on the, like, let's say the yachting range, uh, you've got some manufacturing in, uh, in Thailand, which is quite, um, prominent.Um, and they sell, you know, internationally.And then you've got, uh, mostly the f- like, the Phinisis, for instance, is the charter boat in, uh, Indonesia.Uh, but they're built there, you know, a local Indonesian-built boat.Um, ran very much like a, a super yacht- Okay.um, for charters.But, uh, yeah.Yeah.And then on theIs, is there a lot of charter happening, private ownership?you got an idea of the split there?Yeah, I suppose so, yeah.I suppose I just covered the B2B side, but on the B2C side- Oh, right, yeah, sorry.Yeah, go for it, yeah.is the, is the actual, um, the new players who are co- or the new owners, um, that are coming in, the, the, the Asia-based owners.So, uh, there has been a gradual pro- a gradual, uh, d- movement.Um, and I'll give you an example.Ocean Marina, uh, in Pattaya in, uh, Thailand, they went from 10% t- or 15% Thai ownership of boats.They've got 400 berths, or 400-plus, um, berths now.Now they've got over 50% Thai owners 0 over the last 5 years.So you can see that there is, like, a local, um, buying, you know, power.They're getting more, like, the local, uh, yeah, the local people are trying to look into the, the yachting sector.Right, so- But not justRight, so it's, it's a l- the local people are boating more in that region.Yeah.So that- So it's, it's less of, you know, second home territory- Yeah.I have a boat over in Thailand, actually live elsewhere.Yeah.It's, it's locals that they are going boating.Yeah.Which I suppose is quite a good sign.This is a l- awesome sign.Correct, yeah, yeah.I mean, and, uh, one thing that I would say out of this is thatWhat happened in the past, especially th- there was some business people, or they, you know, people had investments, or they're doing things in Asia-then they would have a boat and, and things like this because it was a traditionally, uh, leisure activity.Like yachting was, you know, something that's quite European, American.Yeah.Now, uh, Asian owners, you know, are, um, are enjoying the boats, are getting out, they explore things.Um, but also, like you said just before, they're, they're also seeing it as a slight investment as well.Like, when you now, getting, get a boat, um, put it into charter.Uh, now with things like charter license in Thailand- Yeah.uh, where, you know, clear- it's getting clearer and clearer, um, to, to operate a vessel, uh, so that you can use it for leisure but also run it as a business.You just brought me beautifully-onto the next topic.Segued.Which is this.A, a nice segue.You, you've kind of hinted at it already.Yeah.It's quite fragmented and different in different parts of Asia.And what is happening from a regulatory perspective that either helps boating or perhaps what's quite difficult to have a boating business or go boating in these regions?Yeah.You, uh, you nailed it just there.With the, the countries themselves, uhAnd I'll give you an example for everyone.Like Europe atEurope, for instance, you've got France and Italy and, and Spain and, you know, you can go around the Med and you can cruise.Yeah.If you're cruising Southeast Asia, you could go through 3 different countries.You'll have to check in and check out of the different countries.Yeah.You know, there's payments, there's, uh, immigration policy, there's a different visa for this one and that one.Yeah, and it's not, it's not quite as mature, right?Yeah.So it's quite a unique situation to be going country to country, especially if it's a large yacht.Yep.And it changes, you know, always changes.And the, and the authorities must be like, "Okay, how do we do this?"Yeah.It's not quite ironed out and sorted.And I suppose, you know, we've got a, the conference that happens every year, Southeast Asia Yachting Conference.that happens every year, Southeast Asia Yachting Conference, and this has to be our goal going forward in the future- Yeah.is to, to make things more streamlined.Um, and I, and I say that, um, on multiple levels.I think as an industry, we also need to support, uh, that direction as well, because we don't make it as an industry, because every- especially in Southeast Asia, everyone's sort of looking after themselves, and there's no, there's no alignment on, on different countries.Yeah.And, uh, I think if we were to have this type of, like, alignment or overall association who has all of the answers, like, what is the charter license in Thailand?Yeah.Could that charter license be used in Vietnam?Yeah.Are theyAnd, and it was a great question at, uh, the last conference from, uh, the guys from Vietnam.It's just like, "We just heard about this awesome charter license in Thailand, and-" Yeah." you know, over ten years it's finally come true."I think you've got a very similar thing, yeah, yeah."We want, we want the same thing.How, how did your com- how did your government get to this point?"Mm-hmm.And I think this is a really interesting thing for me, and I think that this is where, as an industry, we need to get to.We need to align and have one place, one platform, and, uh, you know, I'll give a, um, APSA, uh, Susie Rayment, uh, from, uh, Asia Pacific Superyacht Association.Yeah, Susie, yeah.They, they do, they do bring a- bring together quite a lot of this, um, on the superyacht side, and I think just more regulatory side- Mm-hmm.we could do more of.Um, speaking to Joe Lynch from ICOMIA as well, you know, he's very, uh, supportive to try and get something, uh- Yeah.to be more aligned, um, with all the different countries, make it easier for everyone.Yeah, I suppose that's when these kind of umbrella associations that have the knowledge from all these different nations can be really useful, 'cause they can share it with the rest of the world, and- Yeah.those learnings can actually save, save a lot of time, be, be actually better for the industry long term, and so that's an important part of thisICOMIA's value, yeah.Also, and, and also to, uh, tap into that, is that, it- itAt the end of the day, when we structure everything, uh, more smoothly, the owning experience for the boat owners in Asia, especially they're new to, to, to boating or something like that, if they have a bad experience, umAnd I can use an example, MEBA contracts not always used, um, by brokers selling boats, uh, and so when the lawyers are not involved, there's a big vessel, uh, and there hasn't been due diligence done, uh, because someone's got a good deal or something, you know?Yeah.Whereas, like, once we start and we, we have these standard, uh, standard operating proce- like, pe- all these companies realize, "Okay, let's do the MEBA contract" because it's world, world, it's world-known.You know, people see, um, the benefit to having a lawyer.Um, they're not trying to cut the corners because at the end of the day, they're trying to sell the vessel.You know, they wanna have all this back pay.Yeah.Let's move on to infrastructure.Mm-hmm.What's there?What do marinas look like in Southeast Asia?Is it kind of early investment opportunity type territory?Are there big, established marinas?What are their facilities like?I'm trying not to ask you too many questions.Look, uh, it's pretty interesting if you take a step back.Um, you've got your IYG, you've got, uh, you've got all these marina groups around the world- Okay, they're interested.They're there.They're not there.They're not there?That's very interesting to me.Yeah, yeah.Um, I've had, uh, quite a lot of talks with, uh, group, like, global property groups like CBRE and, and these, and they're really interested to know what's going on, how, how does it work?Um- Yeah.And that's, that's from an investment opportunity.Yes, and, yeah.Get in now, build it, grab the market share, and it's- Yeah, and you, so you see 115 Marina is probably one of the most well-known, um, groups who are, you know, investing into the marinas.Um, most of the other marinas are just individual, so they own the property and they own the, um, they manage the, the facility as well.Okay.Um, and, you know, that's been fantastic and great, but you won't see, uhFor instance, in Australia, you've got a whole heap of, uh, public marinas, you know, whereas almost all the marinas in Asia are private, and you, you know, most of them, you'll need a membership to be, you know, and, you know, to get a berth, even, um- Okay, and largely independent-owned.Yeah.So you've got, you've got the, the private, independently-owned, and kind of, I suppose, from a bigger picture again, that creates this segmented, different experiences, different marina facilities, all very in- inconsistent?Yes.Is that fair?Yeah.Yeah?Yeah, and I- I mean, um, Marinas, um, Industry Association Australia, they do a fantastic job, um, bringing up the, the level of training, um, in the marinas and bringing, like, them standards, but, uh, it's, yeah, we just gotta keep developing that.And, and the goal should be, like, these marinas, 'cause there is marinas popping up all the time.Uh- Yeah.there's a very nice marina being developed in Bali right now, um, that's getting a lot of attention, and, uh, you know, w- we're gonna see every year there's gonna be announcements, uh, of a new development happening.Um, Phuket's obviously a hotspot.Everyone's, you know- Yeah.pretty much every couple of years you're hearing of a shipyard being developed there, which is a, uh, back on your point about infrastructure, this has been one of, uh, the silent movers.Probably not s- too silent, but, um, yards that can take, you know, bigger yacht.So, ten years ago, you only got certain countries like Singapore who could take out a 50-meter yacht or, or things like that.So, you know, you're cruising through beautiful islands in Indonesia and then you got to get back to Singapore to haul the boat up for, you know.Yeah.And obviously, um, you know, I'm at, uh, Monaco every year talking to captains and engineers and, you know, they're, they're planning their 2year trip-and they're like, "Yeah, we're gonna do a survey, so we're gonna have to stop through Singapore."You know, so obviously they're- Yeah, they plan their route.they're planning the whole route.They, they will have to integrate into it, yeah.You know, the first time I, um, I was chatting with the captain, and he wanted to know about, um, and this is probably 10 years ago, he wanted to know aboutI was like, he said, "Yeah, yeah.So we'll be there."And it was like 2 years from then.I was like, "Why are you planning so much ahead?"But then I started to realize, wow- Because they were going through logistics and going, "Well, here's the expectations-" Yeah." of the owner or the charter guest."Anything like that.If you're gonna go- Here's the crew logistics.Yeah.Here's the work that needs to be done.Yeah.Oh, yeah.ItTheyCan we do the helicopter servicing as well?Okay.That can only be done in ce- in- Sail in specialist service.Yeah.So, yeah, no, I mean, that's a bigthat, that became, um, really interesting part for, you know, that, that you don't see in the news.You know, you don't, you don't, you can't read about that until you experience that and you see that.And, and now you see, I mean, Singapore's constantly got 50, 50 to 60 meters being hauled up there for tenyear surveys, or when theyand the boat's just cruising through, stops in Singapore for a bit and then heads off.Um, but now you've got Thailand, uh, which got 3 really good, um, shipyards, new shipyards, um, in, on the Phuket side, uh, and they're busy.Like, uh, constantly got boats coming, coming in.And, uh, they're, they're also the peop- like they're also getting a lot of attention from, um, from captains in, in yacht managers here in, well, in Europe.So, yeah.And so, the- there's a lot of positive stuff going on.Mm.Wha- what areI, I want a really realistic view as well, so what are the, what are the more difficult things that any boats going to that regional organization that's trying to be players, what, what are their biggest challenges?What are the things that are actually quite difficult choke points that they'll need to, need to work on?I think, uh, probably what we talked about is like a, as far as the disjointedness, and I think it's that, that experience.If they had that bad experience or they're getting some, um, dubious, uh, information from someone, they don't feel confidence- Mm-hmm.like confident in the, in the region, that starts to play.That's probably one of the harder things that we- It's this kind of trust.Yeah.Yeah.It's t- Building that.And, and if you have a bad experience, actually it might be a complete, completely different story- Yeah.from another player in that same area, or just, just kind of ask around and be resourceful.Yeah.And I think- Find the right people.I think this comes with scalability as well.Mm-hmm.So a lot ofI mean, people are not dealing with things all the time.Uh, in, in Asia, you might have to do half, like a job, this job, but you might not do that same job, uh, with a, with a boat or anything for another year or so.So your- Yeah.knowledge, straight-up knowledge is not that, uh, you know, consistent because you're not doing it everylike you're doing something all the time.Yeah.Um, so I, I find that a lot.And I'll bring it back to this, having an alignment of an association and not being disjointed would be huge benefit for this, not just likeyou know, it, it will take some time, but in 5 years time, if we were to look back 5 years ago and people were talking about this, wow, we would have a much stronger industry and, uh, a much more confident, um, industry when in Southeast Asia.Yeah.So we need to get on these things now for, for actually in 3 years time, you know, not just for what we can talk about now with, you know, clearing in and out of customs and stuff like that.But, you know, as an industry and we've got backing, uh, we've got support from all around the world, uh, people who have been doing this, you know, let's say for instance, Caribbean, you know, how they do all their checking in, checking out.Um, yeah, it's, it's picking up these things that already been done.Let's not reinvent the wheel here.Yeah.Um, and let's try to implement them, put them in.I think we struggle because to do that takes time, resources, money- Yeah.you don't see.I mean- Yeah, and then the people involved have to have this long-term vision.It's quite, it's rare and that- And who's gonna fund that?Yeah, yeah.It's gotta beYeah, ultimately- Yeah.it comes down to people with vested interest- Mm.who are gonna be able to have sufficient resources to still be there in 5 years and invest and all that kind of thing.Yeah.And I, you know, I, that's why I always see, um, the companies who are investing in, uh, I'll give you Damen, for instance, is a really good investor into the Southeast Asia region with, um, the boat shows and things.You know, they haven't got a boat there.they haven't got thing, like a prop- Mm-hmm.anything to sh- show.But having Damen Yachting there, them understanding, you know, the nuances of, of Southeast Asia, you know, we, and y- that's their vision, is they, they wanna support this development.And when there's companies like this, uh, you know, MTU has been a big one in the past.So the more we get these global companies to help fund things like boat shows, things like conferences, even though they might not get direct clients from it, but they're building it for a, a healthier future.I was gonna say, so w- what is their vision?Are they, are they kind of thinking, "Well, if more people are interested in, in yachting, super yachting, or e- or even just boating-"" they're thinking, okay, more people involved in the activity, a healthier market, ultimately we'll be building some mo- boats for that market.So let's encourage it.Let's help it happen."Is that, is that very basically- Yeah.I think-why they're doing it?I think any company who's got that vision that they're wanting to expand, you know, no doubt Asia is that, that spot, you know.Absolutely, yeah.You, if you go to sea in 5 years' time, um, you're probably gonna have the same lev- the same amount of people buying boats in Europe and America, but, um, you, and in, and things like in even Australia, but in Asia is still that, wow, there could be, it could be- Yeah.it could be.You know, and I think, of course, um, that'll be one.But, uh, yeah, generally I think when the companies, uh, are not trying, I don't think Damen Yachting's there trying to say, "Yeah, come and buy our boats."They're just there going like, "We're, we're investing into this region."Let's see a bit and yeah, yeah, yeah."We, you know, we want, we want these things to be successful because that grows up our, our whole industry."And I think that's, you know, very admirable.Yeah, nice vision.And so we, we talked a lot about Southeast Asia, Asia.Hopefully people are learning a lot.I am.Uh, there are one or 2 key events that are, are quite good resources, points- Mm-hmm.to kind of attend and get involved and to learn more.Um, you're involved in the Southeast Asia Conference.There's a Singapore yachting festival.What are these about?What can people expect from these events?Yeah, so we've got, uh, a cool little calendar of events.So Thailand has a boat show, multiple boat shows in January.I think they'll have one boat show next year.Great event.Uh, brings, uh, it's, obviously it's a tourist island, so you got, then you've got, um, a, a boat show in Langkawi as well coming up in, or it's in April, uh, as well.So it's a small, small boat show.And then Singapore yachting festival, uh, you know, is always sort of gonna be that central, central place or the bigger boat show that's about- Which is the strength of Singapore geographically, the facilities there, that, that kind of- Yeah, yeah.Yeah, yeah.And geographically.So you'll get all of, like, so you'll get the guy, the dealers from, you know, a lot of the big yards or the, so the Azimuts and, uh, Beneteau, they'll actually hold their Asia conference.So they'll, or Southeast Asia conference, so they'll get their, in Vietnam- Oh, awesome.So you get all these sub-events- Yep.around the bigger event.Yeah, it is, uh- Yeah, yeah, kind of, yeah.I mean, the boat show's, uh-it's a co- obviously Singapore's brutally hot, so we start the show later in the evening.And then, yeah, there's naturally a lot of, uh, you know, events and social activities.But in the mornings you'll see a lot of meetings happening, uh, where there's, you know, uh, big announcements happening as well for, uh, the region.So there'll be new dealers coming on board, and the dealers in Southeast Asia get to meet up and, discuss.And I think that's where Singapore will always sort of have that centralized space between, because let's say you're not selling as much in th- like, you might sell a couple boats, Indi- Indonesia a year, maybe a coupl- maybe a couple more into Thailand, maybe a couple in Vietnam, but then, you know, having one location, Singapore is centralized to that.So yeah, Singapore is definitely gonna continue to be a, um, be that point for this.And then with the conference, um, it's the, the third year of the conference, Southeast Asia Yachting Conference happening, and its progression has been, uh, something that's didn't start off with a big vision.Okay.It's now got a very hard line focus on aligning the different groups, different age, uh, different countries, um, and trying to be a platform that company, uh, groups like ICOMIA can come there.They can showcase, like, what's ICOMIA, what's the benefits of being part of a, a bigger org- or, um, association, and hopefully we've, there's also an Asia working group part of, uh, ICOMIA, and I think they're doing a fantastic job to try to, to, to start that, you know, uh, make it, uh, the conversation more, uhSo yeah, the conference, um, I think is always gonna be a tough one.We don't have the manufacturing, um, in, uh, that's b- that expan- so all of, like, the equipment, uh, providers, and all of the, uh, pedestal makers and things like this, it's all coming from Europe.And so- Okay.you would think that these conferences would be a bit bigger and stronger, um, but they, uh, sometimes it's hard because you, you've got a lot of opportunity and progress, but um, things are not quickly moving.So people come and, and it's great for networking and, and meeting up.It's just, uh, uh, for it to really, uh, progress, so we, you know, we need more involvement from w- like a global source.Um- Yeah, and so, and so what, why are people there?What do people learn?What, what kind of things do they, they pick up and go back to base saying-We learned this, this was valuable, this is why we went.Look, um, obviously the networking with the local In- the Southeast Asia, uh, community, because I mean, we have all the boat shows in Europe and everything, which is fantastic, but I mean, you get lost, uh, 'cause it's so big.Whereas, um, um, you know, 1, uh, a media personality told me one day, you know, they're at the W- staying at the W Hotel, and then there's a CEO of a shipyard just having breakfast by themselves.Yeah, yeah.A- And this is a big shipyard, one of the big shipyard- Mm-hmm.There's no chance you would ever get this anywhere else around the world.And, uh, you know, they just can go up and say hi, sit- sit there, have a- Yeah.So I think that is the really interesting part, where you have, uh, C-suite executives from, um, bigger corporations, they coming there, um, might as well- Yeah.They got their eyes open as well for these local partners in thinking, "Okay, well, we need some knowledge in the region, we need some-" Yeah." local expertise."Whereas you- And then their eyes open going, "Okay, well, you could be that partner, okay."Yeah.You find that, and that's- Yeah, and I think, uh-this is the way.I know- I know that a lot of, uh, the few Aussie companies that will specifically come up just to, because they know that there'll be some European, um, CEOs and, uh, marketing directors, sales directors.So they'll take that opportunity to come to Singapore to, um, to try and, you know, get closer to them.Because if they came to Europe to a boat show, there's no chance you would ever get to sit with anybody who's- Yeah.uh, at a- an executive level, because they're all too busy.Um, and I suppose that's a cool thing, that we're not too busy as a show or a conference, but- Yeah.um, we still attract the right audience to come.So, that's- that's- that's good.And I have a- I have a closing question for you.Ooh, okay.Are you ready?So if- if you're speaking to, let's say, a- a board of directors who are looking at Southeast Asia market, what do we do?How do we get in there?What's your kind of, your headline recommendation, try this?Number one thing I've seen is that, uh, understanding a dealer network, uh, in Southeast A- Asia is, uh, trickier than it probably looks.It's an art form, isn't it?Yeah.So it's- Yeah.Yeah, it's understanding not just the cult- uh, uh, language is a barrier, but also quite culturally.Um, I think people probably don't take advantage of the Singapore show as much as they could, especially if they're, you know, coming intoAnd I, and I mean that as in the preparation for it.They, uh, rarely probably get the meetings planned beforehand.And- and that's something, 'cause I spoke to a- someone yesterday, he was like, "Oh, wait, it was great last year and we- we want to sponsor again, but, um, you know, I was too busy with this and I didn't actually get to meet this person, and I didn't"Mm-hmm.And- and I was like, "Well, how about you plan to meet, like, do you wanna, do you want-" Yeah.And that's something on our side as well that we could work on, is like a matchmaking, um, because it's just not easy to find all of- Yeah.like, the Vietnam dealer- Differentor the Malaysian dealer, or- or potential dealer.And I think, uh- That's- I think it's quite painful from your perspective, because you're just thinking-"They were in the same room.""They were there.You should have talked to them, you should have talked to them, and that would have been great."But be organized, like- Yeah.and you can make it happen.If you're not organized, you're kind ofYeah, and I think, um- It's gonna be a random result, yeah.I think it's the tim- People have got to give a bit more time in, um, towards and- and understand, obviously there's the cultural, uh, there's a culture difference as well.But, um, traditionally, I mean, you look at another, uh, sector or industry, um, so for instance, cars.So tr- in a, there has been traditionally the, um, a Ferrari dealer becomes the Ferretti dealer, you know- you know, these type of things.Yeah, yeah.I suppose this has been 1 one way that, uh, has been successful for companies to come into.Um, and I sp- I want, I think what we're gonna see more of now, waterfront properties, um, becoming more.So you've got private islands in Indonesia, and like ro- res- island resorts, um, these are all starting to- to pick up, um, you know, boats and have marinas in there.Uh, yeah, so I think if I was to say, like, a silver bullet, uh, to come to- to look into Asia, yeah, I think that- that's the main- that's the main thing.Understand that dealer network, uh, and if that means, uh, researching outside of our industry and looking at how, you know, similar or another industry, cars, luxury property, things like this, then thatThen that's valid, that works.Yeah, I think that's the, that's the one to follow.thank you for coming on the podcast.Mate, it's been great.I've learned a lot.Thank you very much.Thank you.Hopefully everyone enjoyed it.I'm sure they did.So everybody, if you enjoy content like this and it's helpful to your business, make sure you follow in here to see plenty more of it.All being well, we'll see you again next time.Bye for now.