Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / BONUS: OG Guest #1 Zeb Hoffman-Evergreen State University

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BONUS: OG Guest #1 Zeb Hoffman-Evergreen State University · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

0:00
Hey gang, starting a special bonus series here for the next
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10 weeks. So we're starting right here at
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the end of August, going all the way to Halloween, the end of
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October. I want to celebrate our O GS.
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We're getting ready. We're finishing up our fifth
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season. We're starting to think about
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our 6th season. And you know what, the 1st 10
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people that took a chance on us way back in 2020, they should be
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celebrated. And sometimes with our long
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backlog now 200 and 72180 episodes, it's hard to find
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them. So today we're rerunning the OG,
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the number one longest podcast episode #1 so, so proud and
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happy of Zeb Hoffman from Evergreen State University took
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a chance on me with this crazy idea to do a long form format
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and sat down with us there at his campus out in Washington.
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We had an absolute blast. But of course, I was a rookie
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episode #1 I didn't know what I was doing.
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So you'll hear my little faux pas at the end where the audio
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just stops after an hour because I had no clue what I was doing.
1:02
But again, so grateful for Zeb Hoffman for trusting in US,
1:05
trusting in me, and really setting the tone for what this
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podcast could be and has become. So here we go, Let's go with
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episode #1 the OG Zeb Hoffman, Evergreen State.
1:19
Welcome to the Gil Athletics Connections podcast where we
1:22
bring you track coaches from around the country and connect
1:24
them to you. I'm your host, Mike Cunningham,
1:27
national sales manager for Gil Athletics.
1:29
It is my honor to bring you the stories of these men and women
1:31
and learn with you what makes them tick.
1:34
This week, I've got a doozy for you.
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Zeb Hoffman of Evergreen State University couldn't be more
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proud and happy to talk with Zeb.
1:43
What an interesting guy at an interesting university.
1:46
I think he'll really enjoy his story.
1:49
Unfortunately, your host, I made a mistake.
1:53
We got into it and really started chopping it up around
1:55
the hour mark and that's when we stopped recording.
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So that's the bad news. One hour and it cuts off.
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The good news is that means I get a chance to record and sit
2:05
down with Zeb again in the future one day.
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And I'm super excited to look forward to that.
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So please help me welcome the strong, the powerful Zeb Hoffman
2:20
some Hey Zeb. So we were just talking and for
2:24
people who don't know you, I'm sitting in front of you.
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Look like you could go throw the NAIA national championship
2:31
hammer right now, buddy. But you were just talking about
2:35
you are putting on 1/2 marathon in 10K.
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How does a how does a throws guy do this?
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What is? What are you doing?
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Yeah, I kind of got thrown into that.
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That's part of my job description is some sort of
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fundraiser, the Gouda Gala as it's called, 10K half marathon
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is something that we've done historically.
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It's happened I think since the late 80s.
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Oh, wow. Off and on.
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And it's always been initially was as a as an opportunity for
3:02
our athletes to qualify for nationals with a half marathon
3:05
time. You have 1/2 marathon.
3:07
You have a marathon for. For NAIA nationals.
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Right, that makes sense. And then it kind of morphed into
3:15
a fundraiser. And so last year was my first
3:19
year doing it, kind of thrown to the wolves a little bit and say,
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hey, figure this out. And I didn't do too bad.
3:28
I I could have done better. Yeah, no one went off course.
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No, no one ran a. Carrot, a couple people did did
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go off course. That's a correction I've made
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this year. There you go, one of the 10K
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guys overshot his mark a little bit.
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He was registered for the half marathon.
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Yeah, keep going, man. We'll change it for you.
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But he, yeah, we, we've made some corrections.
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You know, the folks that they got that ran off course, I've
3:55
said, hey, come back next year, we'll wave your feet.
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Yeah, that's great. And and you know, it's kind of a
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customer service thing. Absolutely.
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I hired, we got. I had the opportunity to hire an
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assistant coach this year. Made it a point to hire a
4:08
distance guy. Smart, OK.
4:10
Because I felt like last year as as as first full year as head
4:15
coach. I was the only.
4:16
Coach, as the only coach, I was making my distance runners hate
4:19
running and that's a bad quality for a distance runner.
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Like they kind of need to love that.
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So I brought in my my assistant coach Curtis and, and he's given
4:29
me a lot of feedback on the race as what's important to him from
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a distance perspective. Like this is what I want, this
4:38
is what I would what I would like to see out of out of 1/2
4:41
marathon. So this year, you know, we
4:44
didn't make sure it's as big a priority as we did medals.
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You know, we tried to get really nice medals this year and you
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designed those. I designed those.
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That's part of your job duty job description.
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You know, I don't think designing medals was in there,
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but you know, it says other duties as a sign right at the
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bottom. And I think that's, that's what
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I that's where I went with it. They always get us yeah, that
5:05
and we just, we just wear suckers.
5:07
We. Say, OK, OK, what does that
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mean? Like you're going to do some
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design work, so. How, how involved were you on
5:13
this race? What I mean by that is like were
5:15
you out marking the? Are you out marking the course
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or designing the course? So it's, it's a USATF certified
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course. And so the the course is already
5:23
set, the mile markers are already there.
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So all I really need to do, I probably drove the thing 10
5:30
times last year just to really find out where everything was,
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lay the land, lay the land, where where the pitfalls, where
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we need to put the the arrows on the road, do all this stuff.
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I haven't touched the thing this year.
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I know Curtis has gone and and ran in a couple times.
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So already this. Year well.
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He's a distance guy. He's a distance guy.
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He's he does that for breakfast, right?
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But for the most part, you know, this year it's been a little
5:58
more, a little more hands off because I know everything's
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there, all the managements. Of the meat, call it a meat.
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Yeah. OK, so you didn't have to design
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the? Course I have to design the.
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Course how people do that, man, that's amazing.
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Yeah. And you know, I think our, our
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certification runs until 2022, our USATF certification on the
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course. And so then we'll have to have
6:18
somebody come out interesting. It's a it's a bridge I'll have
6:21
to jump over when we get there. Yeah, I didn't know they do it
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for a certain block of time. Yeah, yeah.
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It's certified for a certain block of time and then and then
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you can just re up and I'm sure there's a fee associated with
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it. But yeah, you have to have
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somebody come out and that's the way it goes, you know?
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Well, let's talk about, you know, I'm not here to talk with
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the throws coach about 1/2 marathon.
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So Zeb, tell us and you know, this is our second time meeting
6:44
each other. I met you about a year, year and
6:46
a half ago and was just fascinated with your story,
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which I am with a lot of track coaches and how they got to
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where they are today. Maybe give us kind of your I was
6:55
a comic book kid. So you know, the origin story of
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Spider Man I loved and Batman. What's your origin story?
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How did you get into coaching and how did you get here to
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Evergreen? Well, I got in.
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I'll talk about how I got into track and field first, but
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that's kind of starts there. I was a basketball guy.
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My dad was 6 foot nine, my mom was five, 10511.
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Your dad was six? Nine.
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Yeah. Still a, a massive dude and,
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and, and so is this idea that I'm probably going to follow in
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his footsteps. All my siblings are tall.
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My brother's 64, my sister's 61. If she stands up straight, you
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know, she kind of has tall girl posture a little bit, but she so
7:37
so I was a basketball kid and I, you know.
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Around here. Around here, yeah.
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I grew up in the Olympia area. I I wanted to play basketball.
7:46
That's why I wanted to do it. So I started lifting weights to
7:48
get to improve sports, to improve athletic development for
7:51
basketball. The problem was is that unlike a
7:55
lot of basketball players who have a horrible time putting it
7:58
on weight, I put on weight like a champion.
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And so, yeah, I could dunk a basketball when I was a freshman
8:05
in high school, but all that muscle had had an oxygen cost.
8:09
So you were a big. I was I was a big, I was a big
8:12
guy boxing. People out, you just couldn't.
8:14
Get yeah, I was, I was, I was, I was a great rebounder.
8:16
Just like, give me a second. Let me down before.
8:18
Like, like do do we need to, do we need to run all the time?
8:22
Like, can we, can we walk? And so sophomore year at high
8:28
school, I'm on the JV team, which, you know, apparently was,
8:31
was a, was a big deal to be a, a sophomore and be on JV here, the
8:37
local school here in town. And, and my dad, after one game,
8:42
I didn't play a whole lot. And he's like, you go in there
8:44
and you quit. And I was brand new at this
8:47
school and I was like, man, I don't, I don't want to do that.
8:50
I don't want to quit. I'm already I'm already new at
8:53
this school. I don't want to be the I don't
8:54
want to be the quitter. You know, it's like that high
8:56
school politics. And but he's like, do it, do it
9:00
or find a place, find a new place to live.
9:03
And so I went in there in the locker room is.
9:05
Your dad a tough. Guy he was he was a he was kind
9:08
of a you're with me or you're against me.
9:10
It's my way of the highway type of type of dude.
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And you know, so that that definitely informs how I am as a
9:17
parent too. And even as a coach.
9:19
I'm a lot more go with the flow. Yeah.
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You know, you, you, you get a you, you learn one way or the
9:27
other. You either you either go I want
9:29
to I want to do exactly like this person did, or I'm going to
9:31
do the exact opposite. You learn.
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Yeah, and so I quit. And so then I was like, what am
9:37
I going to do now? And there was this this girl in
9:40
my weight training class, beautiful.
9:42
I crush on her. And she said, you know, you
9:44
should you should turn out for track.
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You should throw the shop put. It's still a sophomore year.
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Sophomore year she was a senior and I was a sophomore and I
9:52
said, you know, do you do you throw the shot put?
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She's like, yeah, I'm like I'm in too.
9:56
I'm in and. They get us in a lot of trouble
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sometimes. They do, you know, She still
10:01
does. She's my wife now.
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And yeah, she gets me in all kinds of troubles.
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I remind her on a regular basis when she's like, you spent so
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much time at work, you spent much time at track.
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I'm like, this is your fault. And that never goes over well.
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I wouldn't recommend. Anybody there's good advice
10:17
right there. Yes, don't.
10:18
Don't remind your wife that it's her fault.
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Yeah. And so I, I was an OK shot put
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discus or high school. I think I threw 4911 1/2 in the
10:30
shot. Yeah, hang my hat on that.
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But, you know, no, no one was at my house when I got home from
10:37
practice either. Yeah.
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And I part of me, that was my ignorance as a student athlete
10:43
because I thought that's how recruiting worked.
10:46
That they just showed. Up that they just showed up.
10:47
You didn't. Reach out at.
10:48
All yeah, you did there was no outreach thing like they're
10:51
they're going to come to you and they're going to and so and.
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What year? What's your senior year of high?
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School. 1998 was my nineteen year, yeah.
10:58
So still before the Internet, really.
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Yeah, it was, It was, you know, yeah, there wasn't a lot of
11:03
options there. There weren't all these
11:05
recruiting sites like there are now.
11:08
It's so I came here to Evergreen thinking my track career was
11:12
done and I, I, I'd spent two years here at Evergreen horribly
11:17
as a student, just a student, just really wasn't a great
11:21
student. I was going to college because I
11:23
thought I had to. And so I swore off college and
11:27
dropped out, moved to Seattle and kind of swore off higher
11:32
education. You know, I thought that couple
11:35
times, thought I'd beat the system.
11:37
You know, I, I was working at University of Washington and
11:39
research lab and primary, I was, I was an animal tech in a
11:43
primary research lab, which is a glorified janitor.
11:48
But at one point I, I was in the running to be a research
11:51
scientist and I was like, I'm going to be a research scientist
11:54
doing neuroscience research without a college degree.
11:57
I've beaten the system. And they said, no, actually, we,
12:01
we, you're really good at cleaning up after monkeys.
12:03
We need you to continue to do that.
12:05
So I miss I missed the boat, but I almost had it started working
12:11
at nightclubs, music venues, working as a as a, you know, a
12:15
door guy or security. You're just finding jobs at this
12:19
point. Right.
12:19
Yeah, you know, that was on, that was on a goof like I was
12:22
still working at at at the primate center during the day.
12:24
And it was, I was, it was this idea of like, hey, if I work, I
12:27
work at night too, it'll keep me out of trouble.
12:29
I'll be able to save money. And it turns out that I just had
12:31
way too much fun working at night that I just quit my day
12:35
job and just work security. It was a good thought, but then
12:38
your night job was security at clubs and venues.
12:42
Yeah, and that the trouble happens.
12:43
That, that that whole lifestyle is is is great for a little
12:47
while. I reconnected with that girl
12:50
from the weight room while I was doing that job and we started
12:54
dating, started a family and then I didn't want to be the dad
13:00
that just hung out and drank beer and, you know, TV.
13:04
And so I was looking for something to do.
13:05
So I started working out with kettle bells, read Dan John's
13:08
book Never Let Go, and realized that there was this masters
13:12
track and field thing and so you're.
13:14
Just lifting the lift at this. Point.
13:16
Yeah, I'm just, I'm just looking to like, be around, Yeah.
13:19
Be around for this guy, be around for my son.
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And so and then I find this venue of, OK, I could do masters
13:25
track and field. This is awesome.
13:26
I'll throw the shot again. I thought I was definitely
13:29
stronger than I was in high school.
13:32
And by this time I'm in my late 20s, early 30s.
13:36
Because what? What age does master start?
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30 or 35? Technically starts at 35, but
13:41
some masters starts at 30 so most masters meets will let 30
13:45
year olds. Sorry, there's like an intro
13:46
level to get more people. In yeah and so I was looking for
13:51
places to throw the shot put found West Seattle Stadium and
13:55
at the time at least it was a public hammer cage.
13:58
You could go out there and you could throw the hammer and don't
14:00
want to give you a hard time and Seattle Masters Athletic Club,
14:05
you know, built it, set it up. And so I would go out there and
14:08
I would throw on weekends, throw when I could.
14:10
I was a stay at home dad during the day, security guy at night.
14:15
So it worked out pretty perfect. There were times where I would
14:18
give my son a bottle, walk him around the track and then the
14:22
goal was to get as many throws in as I could before he woke up.
14:28
That was, that was, that was my training.
14:30
You know, then I'd go home and, you know, we'd play and
14:32
whatever, put it out for a nap and I'd do my kettlebell work
14:34
out and then, you know, you know, wife would come home.
14:38
We'd high five and I'd go to work.
14:40
Yeah, tag team. And I, I kept kind of
14:44
progressing as as a, as a hammer thrower now.
14:47
Why'd you pick hammer? Because you didn't do.
14:48
There's no hammer in high school for.
14:50
You I I I threw hammer once at University of Oregon in 1996,
14:56
right before the Atlanta Olympics at a track camp.
14:59
All right, so I'm. Track camp.
15:01
So I was like, hey, this is something new.
15:02
Let's introduce you to a they. They would do a, you know, they
15:05
always have events in the evening to try to keep the kids
15:08
busy, you know, idle hands and all that.
15:11
And so everybody got to try all the different events.
15:13
So they let us try Hammer. Very cool.
15:16
And I took to it right away. It's awesome.
15:19
And then the next day, Stuart Toger, who he just passed away a
15:22
couple years ago. Yeah, but he he you know, he was
15:26
the throws coach there at the time.
15:27
So he was we're I was getting to work with him every day.
15:31
And he put it, you know, gave it, gave us, you know, here's
15:34
the glove. And we also got to take a turn
15:37
in the ring and see Lance Steele throw again like a a month
15:40
before Atlanta, right? That was amazing.
15:45
Yeah. And I went home and I told my
15:47
coaches in high school, I'm like, I want to, I want to do
15:49
this right? And they said, well, too bad.
15:52
Right. And there there's a vibrant
15:54
hammer scene now in Washington. Yeah, not back in 9698.
15:59
No, I I missed high school hammer by about a year.
16:04
Is that right? So Dwight Mills, who is?
16:09
Middles M Ideal, yeah. Yeah, he's he's now the throws
16:11
coach at Saint Martin's University down the road.
16:15
His son Adam was in 1998, was finishing up 8th grade and we
16:24
would have gone to the same high school.
16:25
And so he I think the the high school hammer stuff really
16:28
started with the middles family. I.
16:30
Remember him? He went to Washington.
16:32
Adam, no, Adam went to USC and then this other son, I believe
16:36
went to UW. Yeah, that's a hammer name in
16:39
the. State of Washington, yeah.
16:41
And, and, you know, then there's guys in the Seattle Masters
16:45
Athletic Club like George Matthews, Lance Niebauer.
16:50
They're continuing that up and up and up north.
16:52
Howie Kellogg. If it weren't for those guys
16:56
being from the Seattle area at the time, I wouldn't be here
16:59
right now because George was the first one to say like, hey,
17:02
you're you're into this. Here's a key to the shed.
17:07
And so it's the seat container out there that I had access to.
17:09
Anything you'd ever want to throw.
17:12
It was awesome. And yeah, I couldn't afford to
17:14
buy a 10K hammer or, you know, he's like, yeah, there's wires
17:18
in there and there's handles in there and go go nuts.
17:22
Go nuts. Make sure you lock it up every
17:23
time. That was the only thing.
17:24
Make sure you lock it up. That's perfect for a thrower
17:28
hammer thrower specifically, you know, kind of gym radish, You
17:31
know, just go make your own hammer, whatever you need.
17:34
Just lock it up when you're done.
17:35
Yeah, go do it. And while I was out there, met
17:39
Martin Bingaser who was runs the the The Hammer Media website
17:45
does a. Great job, also has a great
17:46
podcast. Everybody, even if you're not
17:49
into throwing, should check that out.
17:50
Yeah, it's, it's gone well beyond throws.
17:52
Yeah, which is that right? OK, Yeah.
17:54
So they they have through the game network, have contacts with
17:59
tons of different coaches from all across the world and yeah,
18:04
just tons of content. I know Martin has done a great
18:06
job as an advocate for throwing in the hammer specifically and
18:10
just done an amazing job. What a what a great advocate
18:12
that event has in in him for sure.
18:14
Yeah, my, my first day going out to West Seattle, I, my in laws
18:18
asked me what I wanted for Christmas or my birthday one
18:20
year and I said I want a hammer. And so I, I bought a hammer and
18:26
it's my first day going out to throw it.
18:29
And I know there's, wow, there's a lot of hammer throwers out
18:31
here. And it turns out Martin was put
18:33
on a clinic with Mike May, who was AUSA very, very good US
18:41
hammer thrower who was in the military he was stationed at.
18:44
MA I I think or. Something Mai Yeah.
18:47
Stationed at Fort Lewis, now Joint Base Lewis McCord, and he
18:53
would throw all around the area. And so he and Martin kind of
18:59
collaborated and did this, this little hammer clinic.
19:02
And so Martin said, hey, you know, sign the waiver and you
19:04
can do it. Jump in.
19:05
I think I still owe him 20 bucks.
19:08
He's going to hear this and remember.
19:10
Yeah, yeah. So, yeah.
19:14
And so he, yeah, he, he, we kind of kept in touch and we'd run
19:17
into each other from time to time.
19:19
He was training up in in Kamloose, Canada with, with
19:22
Anatoly Bondarchuk. Oh, yeah.
19:24
And so, you know, would always pick his brain and I'd read his,
19:27
read his blog and stuff like that.
19:30
Back when, you know, Hammer Media was just a just a blog.
19:33
Yeah. He was an early adopter.
19:35
Man, yeah, absolutely. And still kind of continued to
19:39
progress as a thrower. And my and my wife said, you
19:42
know, you should really think about going back to school like.
19:44
And you're at 30. I'm, you know, in my 30s now I'm
19:47
3334. And so wait, she says.
19:51
You should go back to college. You.
19:52
Should think about going back to school.
19:53
But now you know, most of most of us are familiar with NCAA
19:57
system where it's like, man, you're 33 here and you went you
19:59
already started your clock. So it's not you didn't go
20:01
military, you're out What you mean go back but here and then
20:03
now? Hey NANAIA, we don't have that
20:06
right We. Correct.
20:07
But but I didn't even know that. So I'm I'm, I'm, I'm training.
20:11
I'm training at West Seattle Stadium and U Dubs facility
20:17
wasn't finished just yet and so they were having to come out and
20:21
West Seattle in. What year is this?
20:24
This would have been 20, 2012 maybe.
20:31
OK. All right.
20:31
All right around there. Yeah.
20:32
Yeah. OK.
20:34
So U dubs out. There U dubs out there and back.
20:36
Then was probably TJ. TJ yeah.
20:39
And T JS local guy and so he and I were talking and he said you
20:43
well, you should look at NAI because you're too old for for
20:46
Division One, right? So you should look at it at NAIA
20:49
school. So I just went home and googled
20:51
NAIA and like, well, there we go.
20:53
Evergreen's at NAIA you. Didn't even know Evergreen was
20:55
in AIA. No, that's, that's interesting.
20:58
Yeah. And so I contacted the coach
21:00
here at the time, his name was Chris Hertman, and said, hey,
21:03
you know, do you want, you know, a 3435 year old hammer thrower
21:08
and this is how far I can throw. Which was?
21:13
Back then I think I was I was almost to 60 meters in the
21:19
hammer. I went it was around 18 or so in
21:21
the weight. Yeah, it's not bad for a late
21:23
adopter. Yeah, kind of on your own.
21:25
Yeah, I was, I was. I was knocking on the door 60.
21:28
I think. And he was like, yeah, yeah,
21:31
we'd love to have you. And it was just timing wise, it
21:33
didn't work out. And so we still continue to kick
21:38
the idea around. We finally made the move down
21:40
here in 2015, OK to to for me to go back to school at Evergreen,
21:47
finish up my degree because that's a big.
21:48
Decision for this is a big decision for anybody, wife and
21:51
kid. Move.
21:53
College payments, etcetera, tuition.
21:55
It it worked out to it really worked out around my wife's job.
22:00
She was ready for a career change.
22:03
We have family here in Olympia. Oh yeah, it's always good, yeah.
22:06
So it just worked out that way. That's awesome.
22:08
Yeah. It it just made sense.
22:10
In this story up to this point, a lot of I think the two words
22:13
that keep coming to my mind are serendipity and fortuitous.
22:16
You know that you would you'd actually went to school here
22:18
first. Funny that you didn't even know
22:20
that it was in AIA and and the different rules and stuff like
22:23
that. You you're training at West
22:25
Seattle. UW doesn't have a facility at
22:27
that time. So they're there That's how you
22:29
connect with TJ. Just interesting how all that
22:32
kind of works in its path there. Well, I think I think another
22:35
thing too is just people that are willing to help, you know,
22:39
people that are there that are willing to give you just 15
22:42
seconds. But kids, I think this is what?
22:43
You should, yeah. And I'll tell you what that is
22:45
important. But you know that that the
22:47
combination that has that has to come with that is people have to
22:50
be willing to be helped. And, and in today's world, we
22:54
have a lot of people where the ego is so big and I don't need
22:57
your help. I can do it on my own.
22:59
And, and that's a lot, you know, the gumption to, to bootstrap it
23:02
and doing your own. That's a huge.
23:03
That's a big. Positive and I was there like I
23:06
was I was that for a long time with the hammer is again my wife
23:11
being the voice of reason and all things she was like you
23:14
should think about getting a coach.
23:16
I've got this, you know, I got myself to 60 meters like I can
23:19
coach myself, and I had a horrible meet at UW one year.
23:25
You're you're at Evergreen. Now, no, I I, I was, I was still
23:28
on a patch. I made the move that would be
23:32
bombed out of me, fouled out of me, threw against Kibwe Johnson.
23:36
You know, you know, best, best hammer throwers in the country.
23:40
And I was like, I can't believe I just fouled out.
23:45
This sucks. And I contacted Martin and said,
23:49
hey, could you, could you help me out, help me out with some
23:52
technique stuff? So you kind of needed that to be
23:54
open to OK. I need some help.
23:56
Yeah, I needed, I needed to fall.
23:58
I literally, I literally fell down on that meeting.
24:00
I figured they needed to fall down too like.
24:03
Humility and humbleness had to come through that way.
24:05
Yeah. And I reached out and said, hey,
24:07
can you, can you help me out with technical stuff?
24:09
And so he helped me out through the rest of the year, that
24:11
season, mostly Masters meets. And then I took a small break
24:15
and I, I sent him an e-mail said, hey, this is what I'm
24:17
thinking about for, for my fall training.
24:20
He said, you know what, how about I just write your training
24:21
for you. And that's how working with
24:24
Martin started. And I was working with him
24:26
before I, before I came to Evergreen.
24:29
And then Martin worked with me all through Evergreen, all, all
24:32
through my time at. Evergreen So you finally the
24:34
timing works out and you're on the team now here the the gooey
24:37
ducks, which we're going to get. Into everyone, gooey ducks.
24:39
That's what that is. We'll get into that.
24:42
So your studio here. So are you classified as a
24:45
junior? I think I came in with a
24:47
sophomore standing credits wise. Yeah, old for for athletics.
24:52
Like how many years did you have?
24:54
I had two years of eligibility so junior so because because I
24:56
competed so much on attached. Right.
25:00
The NAIA did charge me two seasons.
25:02
Interesting. OK.
25:04
So I learned a little bit about that too.
25:06
What was cool though is I didn't have, I had four years of of
25:10
indoor because I had never thrown indoor really any
25:15
chargeable indoor meets anyway. That's interesting when I was on
25:18
attach because I said I just never got around to it.
25:21
So 2 outdoor 4 Did you compete all four indoor?
25:24
No I I only only got to do 1. Yeah, OK.
25:27
I got to do one from injury I think and.
25:29
No, the the the the college cancelled our indoor.
25:33
OK, that's OK. I remember there was something.
25:35
Definitely go down that road. So how was your first?
25:38
So was your first season indoor? Yes.
25:42
How was that first season? It was it was it was pretty
25:47
touch and go. You're 35.
25:49
So yeah, I'm I'm 35 at this point.
25:50
You're. Competing against a bunch of 18.
25:53
To 20. I guess I'd be 36.
25:54
I was 36 at this point. You're competing with people
25:56
half your age 18, right? Well, were there any weird
26:00
looks? What was it like?
26:01
What's what's grandpa here doing?
26:02
No. Well, so the the indoor season
26:05
was super weird as it was anyway, because it took me
26:08
forever to get eligible. Just throw all the.
26:10
Certification, yeah. And And so I got eligible for
26:14
indoor season with two meets left to go. 02 meets and
26:19
nationals. Or two meets and nationals?
26:21
Yeah, so I had two meets to qualify for nationals and I did
26:24
have an injury going into the first one I had AI had a wire
26:28
break on me and everybody throws hammer knows the wires break and
26:33
yeah, fall down, fall down, go boom.
26:37
Yeah, it was a big boom. So that first mate did not go
26:41
well and I hadn't really been throwing the weight that much
26:44
because we weren't sure if I was going to even get the.
26:47
Right. You were a hammer thrown out of
26:48
those are two different events. Yeah.
26:50
And was there any nervousness? You know, now you're back to
26:53
being a student and a student athlete with these other young
26:56
kids. Or that, that first quarter of
26:59
training and being in being in class, being in a program here
27:04
at Evergreen, I can see our programs here are very rigorous.
27:07
Yeah, right. It was that was that was a hard
27:10
learning experience for me and my my results were all over the
27:13
place and. Still trying to be a husband and
27:14
a dad. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:16
I was wearing, wearing a couple different hats.
27:18
Now I'm, you know, hindsight's 2020.
27:21
I don't know how well I did the last two, you know, yeah, I
27:26
probably could. I could have done things a bit
27:27
better. I was probably being a bit more
27:28
selfish than I needed to be. But I kind of had this idea that
27:32
like, this is what I have to do. This is my shot to do it.
27:36
But I qualified for nationals that are at the Last Chance meet
27:39
and I think I was bumped up into second place rankings for NAIA
27:44
National. So you bombed the first one?
27:46
Bombed the first one for. The second one, you qualify and
27:48
you're ranked second going into the nationals, yeah.
27:50
Wow. OK.
27:51
And so. Where'd you go?
27:53
East Tennessee State, probably. East Tennessee State, really
27:56
cool facility. Totally made the mistake of
28:01
reading the press release. Of you being.
28:05
Second, Oh no, they there was nothing about me in there
28:07
because I think it was just so late.
28:09
They're like whatever, here's here's Concordia, Nebraska and
28:13
NAI is an absolute powerhouse. They were are probably will
28:18
continue to be for the foreseeable future.
28:20
And it was really about about how they're, they're going to
28:23
sweep this thing. And I, I kind of really started
28:27
second guessing myself and, and I don't, I keep a training
28:31
journal, but that's all I keep. You know, I kind of always go
28:35
back and forth with our, our basketball coach here.
28:37
He's a big sports side guy and writing down your goals and all
28:40
that. I'm kind of a bit of the
28:42
opposite of like, if you need to write it down, it's not really a
28:44
goal. You know, I got a, it's me, it's
28:48
me be I just being contrarian, I think.
28:50
And, and so, but I went through and I looked at all my throws
28:55
that I had taken that year and I had taken probably close to 2000
28:58
throws already. And I was like, I'm supposed to
29:01
be here, Like this wasn't an accident.
29:03
There's. Some validation in.
29:04
That yeah. And so turned up I threw, I
29:07
threw at the time, a lifetime best still got second, but it
29:13
was a it was a good fight. Like I broke my PR like three
29:16
times during the meet. So I no problem getting 2nd.
29:21
And the guy that got first is was a heck of a weight thrower,
29:24
a heck of a hammer thrower. It's always good to see a hammer
29:27
thrower to excel on the weight throw because you can be a be a
29:31
farm boy and, and just just rip it and you know, but then get to
29:35
the hammer and get us some technique.
29:37
You. Can be a 45 meter All Star so.
29:41
So now, indoors over. Indoors.
29:42
Over. You get to your event, the
29:43
hammer. Now you're outdoors.
29:45
Get out to the Get out to the hammer.
29:47
I threw only threw in a handful of meets.
29:51
I was never big on competing a lot during the season because
29:55
training was so important just in the system that that we had.
30:00
And so I I threw in one meet and qualified for both conference
30:04
and nationals. We had a bit of a coaching
30:07
change our our head coach left mid outdoor season.
30:10
So Chris Herrman, who who I had talked to previously stepped
30:13
back in as head coach, went to conference championships.
30:19
I did well there, won, won conference championships.
30:23
I said a lifetime, my still lifetime best there of 64.84,
30:29
yeah, .84 meters. I currently is the conference
30:34
championship record that's going to probably fall this year.
30:37
By one of your athletes. No, unfortunately, no.
30:39
There's there's University of British Columbia has joined our
30:42
conference and they have some fantastic camera throwers.
30:46
Plural they. Have a yeah, they, they, they
30:48
have a couple. I I don't know if four of them
30:50
graduated last year, but they've got some good, they've got some
30:53
really good throwers and their throws coach is phenomenal.
30:56
And yeah, that that records. Records were meant to be broken.
31:00
That's why they're there. That's why they're there.
31:02
So how'd you do it Nationals that year?
31:04
Nationals. That year I I won Nationals
31:08
2016, 636. Yeah.
31:11
College national champion and the hammer.
31:14
That's amazing. I I wonder if there is a like
31:18
what's the record for oldest college champion at national?
31:23
It'd have to be an AIA. It has to be an AI.
31:25
Unless there was some old rule, I don't know what the incidable
31:27
rules were back in the 20s and 30s and, and stuff like that.
31:31
Because you know, when they had, when the war was going on, you
31:34
know, they cancelled a lot of events.
31:36
I think a lot of people came back and maybe went back into
31:38
the college system, but I'm not sure.
31:40
I just I'm curious what that would be.
31:41
Yeah, I'd, I'd be curious too. That would be.
31:46
That's interesting to look that one up man.
31:48
That's about. To do some research on that one.
31:50
There you go. So you go, you do.
31:52
You finished up your second year.
31:53
How'd you do? Because I want to get to the
31:54
coaching side of it next year of indoor.
31:57
Next year they they they cancelled indoors.
31:59
So I threw unattached, right? Outdoors.
32:02
And so, so I, so I competed unattached for, for indoor
32:05
season, qualified for USA Nationals, didn't do as well as
32:08
I wanted to at the meet, but for being part of it was just
32:11
qualifying. I had to, I had to throw a
32:12
lifetime best to qualify and I'd never really put that kind of
32:16
pressure on myself. Have to chase a mark.
32:17
It's not something I'm a big fan of it.
32:20
Doesn't seem like you. Yeah, have having having done
32:23
that like I can say I did, I accomplished my goal.
32:26
When I talk to athletes now whether they're recruits, that's
32:29
a common question that recruits ask like what do I need to what
32:32
do I need to do to to, you know, for college?
32:34
And I'd say just keep, keep doing what you're doing, you
32:37
know, like the. It doesn't fit in your the.
32:39
P Rs are going to come. You know you want to make this
32:42
enjoyable, especially your senior year at high school.
32:45
You're only going to do that once.
32:47
Right. So chasing the mark, yeah, if
32:51
you get it, great. If you don't get it like, that's
32:54
going to the. Season really failed just
32:56
because you don't get that there's so many other aspects.
32:58
Yeah, that seems more of your style.
33:00
Yeah. And so, yeah, when I I was
33:04
coaching Hammer when I was already here, Yeah.
33:07
So the the guy that was the head coach at the time, he comes up
33:11
to me one day and says, hey, I found you a training partner.
33:14
OK. So, OK, Well, because you were
33:16
the only thrower, I was the only.
33:17
Thrower, right? That's right, we forgot.
33:18
I found I found you a training partner and so does she know she
33:23
so she's thrown before she he's like, no, you're the teacher
33:26
from. Scratch.
33:27
Yeah. And so it's like, cool.
33:30
So we'll add another hat on there.
33:32
The student athlete, husband's father.
33:36
Yeah. Student athlete coach.
33:37
Student, athlete, coach. And so I, I taught this this
33:42
goalie from the women's soccer team out of through the hammer
33:44
and she qualified for conference her senior year, my senior year
33:47
as well. So that was that was cool.
33:50
Prior to to coming back to school, I had coached for an
33:54
indoor and outdoor season at Saint Martin's University.
33:57
And so that's how I kind of knew I wanted to coach and I, but I
34:01
just knew that I was missing a big part of my education.
34:04
Like I understood the front end side of it of of the technical
34:10
side of throwing or you know, of, of lifting and getting
34:13
stronger. I wanted the science, I wanted
34:16
the sport, psych or psychology. And last time we talked,
34:21
Evergreen State has a very unique way of majors like you.
34:26
You you pick up here, you create your own major.
34:29
You create your own academic path.
34:30
They call, we don't, we don't have majors here.
34:33
So you never raise your hand and say I'm going to be a biology
34:36
major. You want to have an area of
34:39
emphasis and and focus your studies on biology and you take
34:42
programs that are focused in biology.
34:45
So what did you focus on? I focused on mostly the
34:48
sciences, specifically biology. Biology.
34:50
Maybe an anatomy class or? Something I I took some anatomy,
34:53
Physiology, the way evergreens academic structure is unique
34:57
too, right. So instead of taking multiple
34:59
classes each quarter, you take one.
35:01
That's right. Yeah.
35:02
So you take one academic program, right.
35:05
That academic program has a theme.
35:07
Right. That program is 16 credits,
35:10
right? And those 16 credits get broken
35:12
up into a variety of subjects that relate to that theme.
35:16
So give me an example of what a theme in your senior.
35:18
Year so well, semester. So I took a program about Health
35:22
and Human development. OK.
35:23
So it was definitely geared toward people going into the
35:26
health industry. That was your whole semester.
35:28
It was, it was two quarter program.
35:30
So so it was, it was fall, winter.
35:32
And so it looked at not only the biological side of health, but
35:35
the psychological. Side of health.
35:36
So did you take like, did you go to Professor Smith's biology
35:40
class or did you have one professor?
35:42
That it's team taught, so there's two faculty members, 1
35:45
biologist, 1 psychologist, and when one's lecturing the other
35:49
one's still in the room so they can riff off of each other from
35:53
lecture to lecture. That's kind of interesting.
35:55
So they can they can reference a lecture that they're there too.
35:58
Sometimes they're the mole in the room.
36:00
They're they're, they're reading the room and like I glazed over
36:04
and they'll raise their hand and back, Hey, could you, could you
36:06
go back? I didn't.
36:07
I didn't quite catch that part. That's super.
36:09
Interesting. It's it's really.
36:11
Two different styles, very different, two different thought
36:14
processes from the from the professor.
36:16
That's interesting. Yeah.
36:17
So do you get a degree in something or do you get?
36:21
You get a Bachelors of Arts or a Bachelors of Science.
36:23
It's essentially a liberal arts degree.
36:25
OK all. Right.
36:26
Yeah, you can have an area of emphasis in something, right,
36:30
But that doesn't go on your actual diploma.
36:33
Oh, OK, so you get the BA or BS? Yeah, in the liberal arts
36:37
college. And your emphasis is whatever
36:40
you emphasize. In which yours was what?
36:42
Did you was coaching? So coaching, that was your.
36:44
Emphasis. That was my emphasis.
36:45
So everything I did in that, in that in that program, Health and
36:49
Human development was geared toward coaching.
36:52
How am I going to use this now knowledge of developmental
36:55
psychology to be a better coach? This may be a dumb question, but
36:58
do you buy textbooks? OK, so there is textbooks you.
37:01
Still take tests, you still write, write, write papers, all
37:04
that. The only difference is at the
37:06
end of the quarter, instead of getting a letter grade that says
37:08
you know, Zeb got an A in this class, I get a narrative
37:11
evaluation. So it's a two to three page
37:14
document that says that the. Team Professor is right, yeah.
37:18
They and they write that and this says not only what I did,
37:22
how I did it, how I interacted with the course material, how I
37:26
was as a student, how I was as a classmate, You know, you have
37:31
group projects, right? How?
37:33
How does that work in this group?
37:34
Didn't participate or did participate lead or, you know,
37:37
just was there, Yeah. OK, yeah.
37:39
And you think about in your day-to-day life, it's all group
37:45
projects. If you can't, if you can, you
37:47
can be. That's a really good point.
37:49
You can be awesome at this one thing you would know, know all
37:52
the answers, take all the tests, write the great paper.
37:55
But if you can't work in a group, you're deadweight.
37:57
That's a really good point for all coaches.
38:00
If you're the greatest long jump coach in the world, you're still
38:02
part of a staff. You still got to recruit, which
38:05
means you have to recruit to the best part of the team.
38:08
Yeah. That's interesting.
38:10
Yeah. Outside your staff, you got an
38:13
athletic department that has to work together.
38:15
That's super interesting there. Yeah.
38:17
And then spring of my senior year, I did an independent
38:21
contract, which is another thing that Evergreen's really popular
38:24
for. Or if you have this, this idea,
38:28
this thing you want to pursue, but it's not in the catalog, you
38:32
can do it through either an internship or an independent
38:36
study contract where you're going to get a faculty sponsor,
38:39
You're going to lay out what you're going to learn, how
38:41
you're going to learn it, how they're going to evaluate you.
38:43
You got to write up a. Proposal.
38:45
Yeah, you have to write this thing up, get approved by
38:48
academic Deans. If you're going to do any kind
38:50
of research with with humans, you have to go through the human
38:55
subjects review board. You have to go through that
38:57
whole process. That's all now in your
38:59
transcript. And so I, I, I did an
39:05
independent project to develop a strength and conditioning
39:08
program for a small liberal arts college because at the time when
39:12
I was a student athlete here, we had nothing.
39:15
We had nothing for strength. And so maybe this is a good
39:17
point to pivot a little bit. So because this this was
39:20
obviously we're talking about your undergraduate time here,
39:22
but you obviously went on and became a coach here and we're
39:24
here now still at Evergreen State.
39:26
So tell us a little bit about the school.
39:28
How many? Students currently right around
39:31
2700 students 2700 you. Got all the kind of the major
39:34
sport. You don't football, but you have
39:35
basketball, soccer. Was there field hockey?
39:39
No, there's women's volleyball. Volleyball.
39:41
And track and field. Obviously the track and field,
39:43
right, So you got pretty good complement of of sports and
39:45
everything here for 2700 students and and so do you have
39:51
to as the coach here now first of all, do you teach?
39:55
I don't teach. Every now and then I'll get
39:57
called in to be kind of a guest speaker.
40:00
OK, which is always fun. That's cool.
40:03
I really enjoyed my time as a students.
40:06
So to get to be the person in the front of the room talking
40:09
to. Cake.
40:10
I know I told you this last time because I do have just a soft
40:13
spot in my heart for alumni who teach at their alma mater.
40:17
Like it just whenever I hear of a coach who gets hired back at
40:21
their alma mater, just, I don't know, it just always is
40:23
something special because it's, you know, it's one thing when
40:25
you're recruiting for the school that you're working at and
40:27
you're calling these recruits, you tell them how great the
40:29
school is. Well, if you went to that
40:31
school, you can say, you know, you know, you know how great,
40:33
you know why? You know how I know this
40:34
school's so great? I, I went to school here.
40:36
Like that's authentic. Yeah, I mean, I would, I would
40:38
be. I love track and field and I
40:40
love athletics. I would, I would, I would coach
40:42
athletes anywhere, right? I also help out in our
40:46
admissions department. I would only work in admissions
40:49
at Evergreen. Yeah.
40:51
And that's why I was I used to recruit in Southern California
40:54
and high school counselor asked was like, are you going to stick
40:57
around with this admissions thing?
40:58
I said as long as I'm at Evergreen.
40:59
Yeah. But this isn't this isn't a
41:03
career choice. You know, I'm not going to jump
41:05
to another high school or another college and work at
41:07
their admissions department. I'll work.
41:09
I'll still recruit for for their sport, but I'm not going to, I'm
41:12
not going to just travel for them and work in admissions in
41:15
that. Way So your senior year, your
41:17
your last semester is on a strength and conditioning
41:20
program for a small liberal arts college.
41:23
Was it that broad, like a small liberal arts, or was it for
41:25
Evergreen State? It was for Evergreen State.
41:27
It was at the recommendation of my faculty that we call it just
41:30
a small liberal arts college. So it could be this model that
41:34
that could be that could be adopted anywhere it could be
41:37
located in. Other places that had none.
41:39
No, no, there was no formal strength and conditioning
41:44
program here. Every coach did their own thing.
41:46
Every coach, if they did anything, they did their own
41:47
thing. A lot of them didn't do
41:48
anything. Even up until last year, they
41:51
they still didn't really do anything.
41:53
I was kind of like, hey, if you want to go in there and lift,
41:56
it's over there, but. No formal training.
42:00
Safety. Yeah, obviously performance.
42:03
It was it was a lot of bicep curls and shoulder trips.
42:06
That's what it was. And so I started working with
42:10
our volleyball team, primarily of our men's basketball team,
42:15
soccer team here and there. And so that's why I started
42:18
coaching at Evergreen almost as a volunteer because after I
42:22
graduated, I didn't have any reason to be here other than.
42:25
That I have a paid assistant or anything?
42:28
But I was still, you know, when volleyball came back in in early
42:32
July, I was here in the workouts and it was just kind of this,
42:37
hey, are you still willing to do that?
42:38
I'm absolutely. Let's go.
42:41
That admissions hired me on. And so that and I had a reason
42:44
to still be here. And then in March of 2018, my my
42:52
years, right? Yeah.
42:53
March 2018, the head coach of the track and field left.
42:58
And they said, hey, would you be willing to to take over this
43:01
position? What I tell you about that?
43:02
Fortuitous. Yeah, that's interesting.
43:04
And you know, I, I, I have had a lot of people just throw the
43:08
Nuggets of wisdom here and there.
43:10
And the guy fellow who was the director of strength and
43:15
conditioning for Olympic sports at UW, he told me he's like,
43:18
there's a lot of turnover in a position.
43:20
There's a reason. Yeah, be forewarned.
43:23
Right. And so look under the hood a
43:24
little bit more. Sure.
43:26
And good advice. I would have been the 4th coach
43:29
in three years. And so that's, that's turnover,
43:34
right? And so I kind of looked at the
43:37
position at the time, it was a six month temporary position.
43:41
It's an hourly position. Almost impossible to build a
43:46
team when you're showing up in January and your first meets in
43:50
March. Almost impossible to develop
43:52
A-Team, develop athletes that way.
43:54
And so I said I'll do it. But we need to start making
43:57
steps toward something that's more consistent with the rest of
44:01
the sports, which is a little over half time position.
44:06
So you pushed back and challenged the administration,
44:09
I'm assuming. Is there an athletic director
44:11
or? Is it at the time that it was an
44:13
associate athletic director and then a director of our
44:16
department, which is a student Wellness recreation athletics?
44:20
Yeah, not just athletics, right? Wellness.
44:22
Wellness and recreation is in there.
44:24
Right. So you push back said, hey, love
44:26
to. But we we got to, we got to take
44:29
another step here for the program.
44:30
Exactly. Yeah.
44:31
And, and the folks with admissions to their credit too
44:34
were very supportive. And that's really hard to say,
44:39
OK, we're going to have a a .45 or a .5 admissions counselor
44:44
because that's a year round 24/7 deal.
44:48
And there's they said, no, do it, it'll be great.
44:53
And so we work toward that. This was the first year that it
44:57
really went into place where I'm now.
45:00
Yeah, this year, this, this academic year picked up in
45:03
September where I'm .5 I've spent half my time on mornings
45:08
and admissions and then I come back, I come over here at noon
45:11
and I'm over here for the rest of my day.
45:13
That's awesome. And, and I, Oh yeah, it's, it's
45:17
been a big, big step. And as you know, like being a
45:19
coach, like a coach being a coaching isn't an 8 hour day
45:22
job. And so, you know, we have a
45:25
morning group that goes from 6:30 to 8:00 and then I go over
45:29
to admissions. I put on my admissions, you
45:31
know, uniform or some slacks of polo and go over there.
45:34
Colorado. I go over there and do that for
45:36
a bit and I come back and I put on shorts and AT shirt for the
45:39
rest of the day. I'm still committed to the
45:42
athletic development side. So you know, once strength and
45:46
conditioning for really once track skill practice is over, we
45:51
end up in the weight room. We end every day in the weight
45:53
room. Somebody does and then other
45:57
teams roll in. So it's basketball rolls in for
46:00
a lift before their practice. Men's women's soccer have really
46:04
started to develop a culture where they're they're coming in
46:07
and they're lifting regularly and lifting three times a week,
46:10
which has been really, really a hard culture to create.
46:16
So this is. This is really only your second
46:19
ish. Second full year, yeah.
46:21
Full year of coaching, So how are you liking that?
46:23
But you're a rookie coach, man. Yeah, I, I, I love it.
46:26
I love it. It's, it's the, it's the I don't
46:30
want to call it a job. And I don't get paid to coach.
46:33
I don't feel like I do. I had to, I had to go to a
46:36
meeting today for an hour and a half.
46:37
I definitely got paid for that. So that's your favorite part of
46:41
coaching. It's going to meetings.
46:44
That's. Why everybody gets into coaching
46:46
is the new paperwork in meetings.
46:47
Yeah, I I always feel bad for whoever's in the session after a
46:50
meeting there's. Rumpy.
46:52
And nothing's nothing's good enough.
46:55
Let's go right up to the meeting.
46:56
No, coach. It's good man.
46:57
I'll see you later. Nothing's right, ever.
47:01
Yeah, right. They always know when the
47:05
meeting didn't go well. Especially it's the coach
47:10
getting the athletes schedule. Your athletes are getting your
47:12
schedule. When do you have meetings?
47:13
I want to know when that's happening so I can.
47:16
Schedule twice a month. In terms of the talk therapy for
47:18
coach. Oh man.
47:24
So you're obviously loving and enjoying college and this is
47:28
home, which is even better. And again, your alma mater,
47:32
how's it going with the team itself as far as is the team
47:36
growing or you challenge there, how's that going?
47:39
The team is growing. So when I took over the team, I
47:43
want to say we had six people on the team and we were limited to
47:47
88 was our maximum. That's.
47:49
What we could have the school. That that that that rule was put
47:53
on put on the track team and that was even that way when I
47:55
was on the team most you can have 8:00 why 8:00?
47:59
Because that's how many can fit in a van.
48:02
You know, they're they're they had they had algorithms for how
48:04
many people could be on a basketball team based on how
48:06
many people could play at one time.
48:08
You. Have 10.
48:08
I need two vans that cost a heck of a lot more.
48:11
Yeah, or well, how many people do we need to practice?
48:13
Well, we need at least, you know, we need of these fifteen
48:16
people to practice, you know, for Subs and stuff.
48:18
And we'll track and field. You can have one.
48:22
Yeah, you have one and you have 10.
48:24
And so they said yeah, you can. You can have a van full so you
48:28
don't. Have that cap now.
48:30
No. So that was one of the things I
48:32
pushed against as well. When they asked me to take over
48:34
that I said if we're going to do it, I want to do it.
48:36
I don't want to check a box and say like, yeah, we have track
48:39
and field and we just limp along.
48:42
Like I want to be able to have a team.
48:44
I want to have a budget. I wanted I wanted to be part of
48:47
this program. And so last year I had 20.
48:53
Folks. And then this year, at one point
48:58
I thought I was going to be up around 30.
48:59
It looks like going to be more 2526.
49:03
But that's also athletes from other sports.
49:05
You know, when we came in downstairs, we ran, we ran into
49:07
a couple basketball players. The big guy Dez, he's our discus
49:11
thrower. He got second at conferences.
49:13
I. Was wondering he looked like.
49:14
A discus. Oh yeah, he's tall.
49:16
He's a monster. He's a monster.
49:18
He moves great. He came in last week and took
49:23
some throws in the racquetball court and almost put a hole in
49:26
the wall. And I was like, and, and and it
49:29
was what was great about it is he was doing stuff I was trying
49:32
to get him to do all last year. And he just couldn't, couldn't
49:35
quite connect the dots. And he took two throws and I was
49:39
like, yeah, aside from the the hole, like he, he, he, he hit
49:44
the, he hit the wall like a foot and a half from the ceiling and
49:47
it bounced up and hit the ceiling And the lights went
49:49
really. Damn.
49:49
I was like, I think we're done. Let's.
49:51
Stop. There, don't tell our facility.
49:53
Hopefully our facilities guy doesn't hear this.
49:56
I was like, but aside from that, I was worried because he had,
49:59
he's been spending so much time on the basketball court.
50:01
Definitely leaned out a lot. But the power's there,
50:04
everything's there. And I was like, hey, we're good.
50:07
But you've gone from six 8 to 20 to 25.
50:11
That's phenomenal. Now with an assistant coach, I
50:13
would assume maybe there's going to be some more distance kids.
50:15
I, I, I hope so. I hope so.
50:17
I think we've got some some great distance runners that have
50:21
applied and been admitted and. What a beautiful area for a
50:25
distance kid. I don't know, there has to be
50:26
paths and stuff there's. Tons of trails.
50:29
Evergreen lives up to its name. There's a ton of.
50:31
Trees. It's it's 1000 acre campus, is
50:33
that right? Yeah, 1000 acres.
50:35
Only 250 of it's developed, so it's just it's old growth
50:39
forest. Yeah.
50:40
And we're right on the Puge of Sound.
50:42
Yeah, it's a great place to. It's a great place to be,
50:46
period. Yeah, it's wet.
50:48
It rains here. That's why everything's green.
50:51
Yeah. So yeah, there's no no better
50:54
place to be a runner. So what is No one knows what a
50:57
gooey duck is. There's 5% of the people are
51:00
going to do a goo what? Tell us what is a gooey duck and
51:03
why a gooey duck here? Why is it not a treat?
51:07
So a gooey duck is a very large clam.
51:11
So large, in fact, that it's siphoned can't be inside the
51:15
shell. Oh, that's right, it actually
51:18
sticks outside. The shell sticks out of the
51:19
shell and they and they get very large.
51:22
Apparently they're delicious. You watch Food Network and all.
51:25
They always have gooey ducks in there on usually like the
51:28
challenge shows where it's like the mystery basket.
51:30
Yeah, the. Special ingredients.
51:32
Yeah, yeah. But it's then when they founded
51:36
the college, they pit, you know, and they said we're going to
51:38
have a mascot. They wanted something that was
51:40
from the area. You're only going to find gooey
51:42
ducks in the Pacific Northwest. Is that right?
51:44
OK. In one of the native languages,
51:47
the gooey duck means to dig deep.
51:51
When I was a student athlete, I didn't know that.
51:53
What language? I forget like a Native American.
51:55
One of the native languages, yeah.
51:57
Dig deep, which is, if I remember right from watching the
51:59
Food Channel, you have to dig. Yes, that's severely deep, but
52:02
you have they're they're down. You have to get down.
52:04
Yeah. And apparently, and apparently
52:05
when they're in the ground, despite their size, they're very
52:07
fast. And so they can.
52:09
They don't look fat. They yeah, they look like
52:11
sloths. Yeah, they kind of lumber
52:12
around, but apparently when they're in the ground they can
52:14
get down pretty quick. And so they're here.
52:16
We're on the Puget Sound. You said, are they here in the
52:18
Puget Sound? Have you ever seen one in in
52:20
that in real life? I've never seen one in its
52:22
natural. Environment in real life.
52:23
OK all. Right.
52:24
But we have, like, we have a small aquarium on campus and
52:27
they have some in there, yeah. Yeah.
52:29
So the the mascot, the the official name is Speedy is the
52:33
is the name of the mascot. That's funny because you think
52:36
it's not fast and you just told me it is.
52:37
Yeah. I I I can say that our current
52:40
iteration of the costume is by far the best iteration of the
52:43
costume. Yeah, you probably got to be a
52:45
little. Careful with the You have to.
52:46
You have to. You have to watch out.
52:47
Google this right now. If you don't know what a gooey,
52:49
gooey duck is like, pause, go Google image and then come back
52:53
and then realize what we're talking about.
52:55
When you talk about a dressed up mascot, you have to be very.
52:58
Careful, yeah, you you can use your imagination.
53:00
Another another name for the gooey duck is a horse clan.
53:03
And so you can you can use your imagination and just go from
53:06
there. Sky's the limit.
53:11
That's awesome. But all the previous costumes
53:13
had been student made. And so the, the iteration of
53:18
this costume prior, prior to this one, which is, you know,
53:22
purchased and fabricated by somebody else, was the pickle
53:25
Taco. It was just like neon green.
53:28
I'll find a picture of it and send it to you.
53:30
It's, it's, it's awesome. And if you, if you Google your
53:33
Evergreen State College mascot, you'll see all the iterations up
53:35
there. It's pretty funny.
53:38
How long has the college been around?
53:39
Has this been? Around for a long time founded
53:41
in 1967, opened our doors in 71 it's.
53:45
Still fairly young. It's super young school.
53:49
Other things interesting about the College State School.
53:52
So we're a public liberal arts college.
53:54
Not private. No, so we're we're I want to say
53:58
there's something like 30 public liberal arts colleges in the
54:00
country, if that we're one of few, one of the few public
54:06
schools to be part of the the book colleges that change lives.
54:10
There's a really small well, it's a it's a great book about
54:14
small colleges that essentially are doing big things that aren't
54:18
doing the giant big typical university experience.
54:24
And that's not to knock that experience.
54:26
It definitely I think the author of the book takes some cracks,
54:31
but that's that's their liberty. It's their book.
54:34
Not my position as as a coach or someone who works in admissions
54:38
to dog a big BIG4 year experience, but they definitely
54:42
make a case for a smaller school and a more intimate school.
54:48
I had the opportunity to go to one of their events this last
54:51
summer. It was kind of my victory lap
54:53
through Southern California as as an ambitions counselor.
54:56
And I can say I was in a room full of probably, you know,
55:00
fifty of the most innovative colleges in the country.
55:03
And no one doesn't like Evergreen.
55:04
Wow. Is that all right?
55:06
Yeah, yeah. You know, you go, you go, they
55:08
have these little lunches and you go out to dinner with a
55:11
couple people and they're like, wait a minute, you do what?
55:14
It's like, yeah. Yeah, we do.
55:15
That sounds awesome. Wow.
55:18
That's cool. That's cool.
55:19
So what do you do? You're, you know, it's when
55:22
we're recording this. I'm not sure when it'll actually
55:24
be published, but we're recording this in January,
55:26
right? I get mixed up on time.
55:28
So we're getting ready to go in the indoor season and obviously
55:31
outdoor season. So we still don't have an indoor
55:33
season. So we, so we, so yeah, we, we
55:36
still, we for better, for worse. We don't have an indoor season.
55:40
So you're still training for March meets to go?
55:42
Outdoors. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
55:43
And so, you know, we met up, we were out at the Hammer cage and
55:47
we were thrown in the rain because if you live in
55:50
Washington state, you need to learn how to throw in the rain.
55:54
We got a bit of snow last week. We threw in the snow.
55:58
Our first meet we went to last year was in second week of
56:01
March. And at 9:00 in the morning, they
56:05
were scraping nice out of the distance, right?
56:07
So that's just something, you know, you have to live in our
56:10
area and you have to be able to do that.
56:12
Do you typically outside of nationals, do you stay here in
56:16
Washington? There's enough meet Saint
56:17
Martin's I assume holds me. So yeah, see, it's, it's all up
56:20
and down the I-5 corridor. Saint Martin's Pacific Lutheran
56:22
University, University of Puget Sound puts on, puts on a couple
56:26
meets. We make sure we go to yeah,
56:31
Pacific host to meet at West Seattle Stadium.
56:34
So that's always fun to go back to that one.
56:36
Or stomping grounds. Yeah, it's like you're home
56:37
right there. Oh yeah.
56:38
That's the real. I love it.
56:39
I love it. And it's fun to to get to that,
56:43
to go to that meet and, you know, share that area with my
56:48
athletes. It's a lot of fun.
56:50
And we have a ton of throwers. And that's not 'cause I'm trying
56:53
to turn everybody into a hammer thrower, but I I do feel that as
56:58
far as accessibility goes within the sport of track and field,
57:01
hammer throw really takes all shapes and sizes.
57:03
Oh yeah. You kind of need to be a monster
57:06
to throw the shot or the disk, especially if you're a male
57:08
thrower. Right.
57:10
Hammer you can be 5 foot 2A5 foot two female and have success
57:14
in that event. You can be a 5 foot 9 male and
57:18
have to assess to that. Event I was amazed when I first
57:21
got into coaching, not coming from the thrower side.
57:24
So in my head, every hammer thrower was the the big guy like
57:28
you or the big girl, you know, And then I remember, you know,
57:30
my first couple of national meets or, you know, Texas
57:33
relays, bigger meets like that where teams around the country
57:35
would come in. And I just distinctly remember
57:37
USC had a few international athletes that look like they
57:41
could have been high jumpers or sprinters or hurdler hept
57:45
athletes. It was they weren't the
57:47
stereotypical, but you know, and they were awesome.
57:50
It just blew me. I was like, wait a minute and
57:52
then, you know, one of those gals would get out, you know,
57:54
look like she could go to the high jump and then the next big
57:56
girl would come and was like, and they're both really awesome.
57:58
Was like, wow, man. The, the, the body types are
58:01
radically variable in this event where if you go to sprinting and
58:06
the hurdling and like I said, you know, some of the shot put
58:08
events, they're more the, the degree off of average isn't very
58:12
much. Yeah, yeah.
58:14
So we, we just, we have a lot of athletes that do other sports.
58:18
I would say more than 50% of our of that 25 are multi sport
58:22
athletes. Is that right?
58:23
Do they come from multi sport backgrounds like they did in
58:26
high school or and so therefore just here just it feels right
58:30
for them to do it or do they come here and learn like you
58:32
know, I just want to do track. I should try to do track.
58:35
Yeah, it's generally the latter. Yeah, every now and again you
58:38
get lucky and you have a a six foot one volleyball player that
58:41
also threw the discus in high school, but probably not to
58:45
great effect because they were playing club volleyball.
58:48
That's of all their time. And so they.
58:50
Just thing we have going on right now with single sport
58:53
specialization in high school and middle school and yeah,
58:57
yeah. And so, yeah, they, they come
59:00
here and they, I don't know why they just, they, I end up with
59:06
people in my office who I've never met before.
59:09
They say I want to do something. And maybe they're an athlete,
59:14
maybe they aren't. I had a guy come in my office
59:16
last year at 6:00 at night, big 6 foot two guy, and he said, I
59:21
want to be on the track team. I said, what have you done
59:24
before? He said, why?
59:25
I was a pitcher in high school. OK.
59:26
I was like, cool, let's try javelin.
59:28
Yeah. And, you know, took us a season
59:32
for him to not throw a fastball. Yeah, Javelin is another special
59:35
event. But he's, he's catching on, and
59:38
I'm so excited for to see what he does this year.
59:41
Yeah. 62 Easily. Yeah, He's a he's a, he's a big,
59:45
strong guy. Easily one of the toughest,
59:48
grittiest guys I've ever met. No joke. 2 rows, 2 rows of
59:52
calluses on his hands. Wow.
59:54
Really? Yeah.
59:56
That's. Interesting.
59:57
He turned up for practice and hey man, you're looking a little
59:59
tired. He's like, yeah, I cut 2 cords
1:00:00
of wood before I came out here. Wow.
1:00:04
I was like, maybe wait till after this, yeah.
1:00:07
Let's stage these. Different, but he just just just
1:00:09
a gritty saw the earth dude and like.
1:00:12
Jay and javelin's tough. I mean, you know it.
1:00:14
Yeah, one of my teammates at Gil, Tim Glover, is an 80m plus
1:00:17
javelin thrower, still throwing. He got third in USA and you
1:00:21
know, he's qualified for his trials next year.
1:00:23
And you know, the work he does to be a good jazz thrower while
1:00:27
a full time job, I mean, it's it's something anytime at that
1:00:31
level. And it doesn't mean at that
1:00:33
level like, OK, to be good enough to possibly make the
1:00:35
Olympic team like he is and things like that.
1:00:38
When you're trying to become the best at Evergreen and in your
1:00:41
conference, that level is there too, that you have to it don't
1:00:44
happen just by accident. You've got to put in time and
1:00:47
commitment. All those are their hats.
1:00:49
And I think you need to be strategic about it too.
1:00:52
There's a big culture of grinding.
1:00:56
You know, we've got to grind, we've got to grind.
1:00:58
We've always got to be grinding, you know, especially in sports
1:01:00
like basketball. Do you?
1:01:01
Mean grind. Like, wear yourself down.
1:01:03
Or yeah, it feels like that's that's the mantra, right?
1:01:06
We got to wear ourselves down. We got to give it every little
1:01:08
bit I. Got to get 110% out of myself.
1:01:11
Yeah. And it's like, maybe let's be
1:01:13
strategic about where we where we spend our time and where we
1:01:16
spend our, our, our effort is. Because again, there were
1:01:20
multiple hats too. Absolutely.
1:01:22
They're student athletes. They're students first.
1:01:24
Yep, that's a big thing here their.
1:01:26
Sons, their daughters. Brothers.
1:01:27
And sisters, yeah, they, they might, they might be in a
1:01:29
relationship. They might want to have a social
1:01:32
life. That's right.
1:01:34
There's all these things that need to happen.
1:01:35
There's only 24 hours in the day.
1:01:37
That's right. And so stress is stress.
1:01:39
There's only so much they can recover from.
1:01:42
And So what can you do? You know, when when an athlete,
1:01:46
when that athlete comes to my office and says, I want to do
1:01:48
track. And I say, you know, hey, what's
1:01:51
your background? And then B, what can you do?
1:01:57
Like, how much time can you realistically give to this?
1:02:01
And that helps us frame our expectations.
1:02:04
And it also helps me as a coach to think about where, where can
1:02:07
we spend our effort the most? You know, I have a a soccer
1:02:12
player who's she's probably 5 feet tall, but she is meaner in
1:02:18
hell. That's it.
1:02:21
That's where your humble host made the mistake and cut it off.
1:02:25
Man, we were really getting into it again.
1:02:28
Looking forward to talking with Zeb again in the near future and
1:02:30
exploring more about his life and what makes him tick and what
1:02:34
makes him coach. So hey, if you made it this far,
1:02:36
thanks for joining us. I hope you enjoyed connecting
1:02:39
with this interview as much as I did.
1:02:40
If you or someone you know would like to be a guest on the show,
1:02:43
please contact me at HURDLE at gillathletics.com.
1:02:50
That's right, Hurdle at gillathletics.com.
1:02:52
In the meantime, we hope you feel led to share this podcast
1:02:55
on your social media network of choice and join us again to
1:02:58
connect with another fine track coach across the country,
1:03:01
Microsoft Mechanics.