Latest / Drive with John Perlman / Magistrates' court, 14 members of the municipal union SAMWU

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Magistrates' court, 14 members of the municipal union SAMWU · Drive with John Perlman

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: You're with John Pullman on 702. Let's walk the talk. Well,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: we had interesting conversations a couple of days ago after
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: members of the South African Municipal Workers Union blocked the
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: M1 going north and south in the area of the
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Smith Street on and off ramps. Many of you, Joe
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Burgers or people who pass through the city, can easily
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: picture that. It meant delays of up to two hours
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: for people who were trying to go about their business.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: I had some views not only about the conduct of
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: the unionists, but also... about the failure of the police
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: who prevented them from actually marching up the on-ramp. Or
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: was it the off-ramp? I'm not sure which one they used.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: It doesn't really matter. But now the matter is in court.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Why is it in court? Who's in court? And what
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: are the charges? Dima Katzol, our EWN reporter, is following
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: this and joins us now. Dima Katzol, a very good
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: afternoon to you, I suppose. The who, what, where, and when,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: if you can. Who's being charged? What are they being
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: charged with? And how far have we got? Good afternoon.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Hi, John. It's 16 members of the Municipal Workers' Union
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: who have been charged. It's all the middle-aged women and
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: men who were part of this demonstration. They appeared in
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: court on charges of contravening the National Road Traffic Act
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: as well as public violence. They have been granted free bail.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: They've been released on warning and asked to return to
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: the courts on the 3rd of December for further investigation.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: So there was a bit of an issue. The case
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: started quite late because the NPA was struggling as to
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: whether they're going to enroll the case or not because
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: it wasn't clear what the charges were. But ultimately, they
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: ended up with those two charges.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Do you have any sense of how these 16 people
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: were selected? Because my understanding from the visuals I've seen
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: and just the logical conclusion one draws about, you know,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: two sections of an entire highway being blocked. There must
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: have been many more than 16 people involved. Any idea
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: how these 16 were chosen? Are they union leaders? Do
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: they hold rank or they just rank and file?
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: No, John, they're ordinary members. And I think from our understanding,
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: that was part of the problem with the NPA as
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: to who did what, when and how. Because it looks like,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: you know, we understand that initially 18 people were arrested.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Two were found to have not participated and shouldn't have
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: been arrested and were released. And this one is not
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: clear as to who did what, when and how. So
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: we'll see when the case goes to court if the
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: NPA actually has a case against these people. As I say,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: that this morning we had to wait the whole morning
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: and afternoon, most of the afternoon at least, in terms
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: of court time for the NPA to decide if they're
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: going to enroll the case and what the charges would
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: be because they were struggling in terms of who did
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: what and who must be charged with what. So it's
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: not clear at this moment what the evidence is. What
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: we understand is that they may have had stones in
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: their hands and that could spell intent on the part
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: of the demonstrators to maybe damage property. But even that
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: is not clear at this point. So it's all just speculation.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: And just finally and briefly, if you can, Dimitri, were
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: they arrested on the highway? In other words, found at
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: the scene of the incident? Because if you say two
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: people were found not to have been there at all,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: that would suggest at least some people were picked up
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: identifying them in other ways. But the bulk of them,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: were they actually arrested on the spot?
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: It seems that we don't have the evidence or any
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: information regarding the actual arrests or where that took place.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: But we understand on that day that they were demonstrating
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: around Newtown, that's around the Bramfontein, the Smith on-ramp and
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: off-ramp area. they were around that area. But as to
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: when and how the arrest happened, because it looks like
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: when the Metro Police asked them to leave to get
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: off the freeway, I don't know what happened there. So
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: at this point, we don't have further details in terms
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: of how aware were they when they were actually arrested.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: But none of the leaders were arrested, John.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Dima Katso-Lishoro. It's an intriguing case.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: And As the state presents their case, I think a
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: lot will be revealed as to how these particular people
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: were singled out for potential trial and punishment. 29 minutes
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: to four.