Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / Tesla Stock Crash vs Crypto📉🔥with Ross Gerber

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Tesla Stock Crash vs Crypto📉🔥with Ross Gerber · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

0:05
Speaker 1: Today we're going to be taking a deep dive into Tesla,
0:08
Speaker 1: take a look at some of the things that Tesla
0:10
Speaker 1: is doing around future proofing their strategies, and we're going
0:14
Speaker 1: to do it with an analyst I think you guys
0:16
Speaker 1: will like. My name is Paul Berret. Welcome back into
0:18
Speaker 1: tech Path. Joining me today, of course, is mister Ross
0:21
Speaker 1: Gerber coming into us from Gerbert Kawasaki. Great to have
0:24
Speaker 1: you on the show again.
0:25
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Paul.
0:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, last time we had you on, we had a
0:29
Speaker 1: lot of things happening within the world of Tesla. Of course,
0:33
Speaker 1: you know, in the world of Tesla, all things are
0:36
Speaker 1: happening again and a lot of things that I think
0:38
Speaker 1: that are brewing. I wanted to get your opinion on
0:41
Speaker 1: a few strategies that are starting to evolve, especially in
0:45
Speaker 1: the electric vehicle space, and how it pertains to some of
0:49
Speaker 1: the you know, groundbreaking technology that we've seen. One of
0:52
Speaker 1: the things that's happening right now is Uber striking a
0:56
Speaker 1: deal with the China, you know byd So, first of all,
0:59
Speaker 1: what is your opinion when you first saw this new
1:02
Speaker 1: story in any of the research behind it.
1:05
Speaker 2: Well, my first thought, you know, just in disclosure I
1:08
Speaker 2: own Uber as a stock and it's not a big position,
1:11
Speaker 2: but I like Uber for autonomy. My original thought process
1:16
Speaker 2: because Tesla is actually one of Uber's biggest customers because
1:20
Speaker 2: when you buy a Tesla, like the services center, people
1:23
Speaker 2: will drop off your car and they'll take an Uber back,
1:25
Speaker 2: or when you need to take your car service, they
1:27
Speaker 2: give you Uber and so literally Tesla spends millions of
1:30
Speaker 2: dollars on Uber. And so I was like, this is
1:32
Speaker 2: such a natural thing. So if you want to be
1:35
Speaker 2: a Uber driver, you can go to Uber and they'll
1:38
Speaker 2: lease you a Tesla and you know, they've always had
1:41
Speaker 2: this relationship. So in my horror, like part of the
1:45
Speaker 2: premise for me was that Tesla would go to Uber
1:48
Speaker 2: and say, hey, listen, we're doing a robotaxi. We want
1:51
Speaker 2: you to sell these to your drivers. And you know,
1:54
Speaker 2: the truth is eventually they'll be entrepreneurs because then they
1:58
Speaker 2: might not even have to drive the car and they'll
2:00
Speaker 2: own the car and they'll be able to make revenue
2:02
Speaker 2: from this, and so Uber drivers don't have to become
2:05
Speaker 2: sort of extinct. They can evolve, And it was like
2:09
Speaker 2: a perfect partnership in my mind. So when it came
2:12
Speaker 2: out with the buid thing. It was like getting kicked
2:16
Speaker 2: in the gut in a way from Tesla, and I
2:19
Speaker 2: spent weeks thinking about it, you know, like do we
2:24
Speaker 2: need robotaxis, Like let's just start with that. Like our
2:29
Speaker 2: driver's so bad that, you know, I need to have
2:32
Speaker 2: a robo taxi when I can call an uber and
2:35
Speaker 2: in two minutes there's an uber here. Now, I'm also
2:38
Speaker 2: in a neighborhood that is served by Weimo And yesterday
2:41
Speaker 2: when I was driving home in horrendous traffic, beach traffic,
2:44
Speaker 2: people everywhere Santa Monica, a Waymo drives by me level five,
2:49
Speaker 2: no driver cruising, and I'm like, dude, Tesla is not
2:53
Speaker 2: even ahead in this game, okay, because like if you
2:57
Speaker 2: can drive in Santa Monica, and I used to challenge
2:59
Speaker 2: Weymo like, oh yeah, you know, you can do San
3:01
Speaker 2: Francisco in a close circuit, come to Santa Monica where
3:04
Speaker 2: it's insane and the drivers are crazy, and way Mos
3:08
Speaker 2: here now and they've mastered it. And I'm still disengaging
3:11
Speaker 2: my full self driving all the time. And you know,
3:14
Speaker 2: there's been a big debate about you know, the videos
3:17
Speaker 2: people post on YouTube and such about full self driving
3:21
Speaker 2: and how accurate they are to the actual experience. And
3:24
Speaker 2: I use full self driving all the time, and there's
3:26
Speaker 2: no doubt in my mind that it's a level two system.
3:29
Speaker 2: It's not close to level three. I would not put
3:31
Speaker 2: my child in this and get in the backseat and
3:34
Speaker 2: let it drive me anywhere anywhere. It's just not there,
3:37
Speaker 2: Like I don't know how to say it. So BYD's
3:41
Speaker 2: technology is pretty good, and they're really good at these
3:46
Speaker 2: things like autonomy and making evs, and they are the
3:50
Speaker 2: most legitimate competitor to Tesla in the world. And so
3:55
Speaker 2: with Uber partnering with them, and certainly this is I
3:59
Speaker 2: think mostly in Asia and euroup thing and right maybe
4:02
Speaker 2: eventually a US thing. But BYD doesn't really try to
4:05
Speaker 2: sell their cars in the United States because it's Chinese.
4:08
Speaker 2: So this is really now standing out as the major
4:13
Speaker 2: competitor to Tesla's robotaxis dreams, and then secondly by Google
4:19
Speaker 2: and Weimo. So Tesla's far behind both of these people now,
4:22
Speaker 2: and I think that that doesn't bode well for pivoting
4:26
Speaker 2: from selling great evs with great technology to being a
4:30
Speaker 2: robotaxi company.
4:32
Speaker 1: With that being the case, and you look at all
4:35
Speaker 1: of these pressures Tesla continuing to kind of go into
4:38
Speaker 1: other areas. One of the areas that they also are
4:42
Speaker 1: starting to venture in from Elon's analysis, is into the
4:47
Speaker 1: AI playout, right, maybe this is already one as well.
4:51
Speaker 1: Do you think Tesla's move into AI is I shouldn't
4:55
Speaker 1: say Tesla, it's really more of a musk companies, And.
4:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really XAI, which is another really negative valuation
5:05
Speaker 2: thing for Tesla. Like, obviously we all know that there
5:08
Speaker 2: is no board of directors at Tesla and they're not
5:10
Speaker 2: going to protect outside shareholders. The board of directors of
5:13
Speaker 2: Tesla works for Elon and only cares about Elon's interests.
5:16
Speaker 2: So I think investors have to understand that when they
5:19
Speaker 2: invest in Tesla that they're going to do what's best
5:21
Speaker 2: for Elon. And so they shipped Tesla chips to XAI.
5:24
Speaker 2: XII is running the AI programs for gro and whatever
5:29
Speaker 2: else he's building, and Tesla has no AI, you know,
5:32
Speaker 2: like what's their AI? Their AI is full self driving,
5:36
Speaker 2: and full self driving is an application of AI which
5:39
Speaker 2: they haven't mastered yet. So then secondly, he's training this
5:42
Speaker 2: on data that's flawed, which is another problem. So using
5:47
Speaker 2: Twitter data for example, as some sort of reality of
5:50
Speaker 2: something is like fantastical. It's the most corrupted, manipulated database
5:57
Speaker 2: you could possibly learn from. I can't even imagine how
6:00
Speaker 2: warped this Twitter based AI is going to be, you know,
6:04
Speaker 2: like it's going to be super warped, you know, and
6:08
Speaker 2: Twitter's got more warped than it's ever been now, So
6:11
Speaker 2: I can only imagine what Gronk is thinking. That said.
6:15
Speaker 2: Tesla doesn't even have a voice assistant that works in
6:18
Speaker 2: the car, you know, it's like Siri. So if I'm
6:21
Speaker 2: in at Tesla, I can't even do it. So there's
6:23
Speaker 2: a company we're very close to we're watching and it's
6:27
Speaker 2: called SoundHound, and SoundHound makes AI solutions for cars for
6:32
Speaker 2: voice activation stillantas just to deal with them, they've built
6:35
Speaker 2: this already, So like all the competitors are going to
6:39
Speaker 2: have a better voice assistant than Tesla because they're so
6:42
Speaker 2: busy building something that's going to tell you the current
6:44
Speaker 2: events for Twitter instead of building stuff that's going to
6:47
Speaker 2: help a Tesla driver find the best restaurants and order
6:50
Speaker 2: the best food on the way to their supercharger. You know,
6:54
Speaker 2: So nobody at Tesla's building AI. From my perspective of
6:58
Speaker 2: what would benefit Tesla drivers.
7:01
Speaker 1: You know, well, I want to play a clip for
7:03
Speaker 1: you because this I think this also clarifies some areas
7:06
Speaker 1: that are happening within AI and it could maybe put
7:11
Speaker 1: a lot of these companies maybe out of business in
7:13
Speaker 1: the sense of where the future is going.
7:15
Speaker 2: Let's go to this clip real quick. When you open
7:18
Speaker 2: source Lama, I thought Lama too was probably the biggest
7:22
Speaker 2: event in AI last year.
7:26
Speaker 3: I'm pretty optimistic that of the next generation, the open
7:28
Speaker 3: ones are going to win. There's just been too many
7:30
Speaker 3: things that I've tried to build and then you have
7:32
Speaker 3: just been told now you can't really build that by
7:34
Speaker 3: the platform provider that at some level, I just like, nah,
7:37
Speaker 3: fuck that for the next generation?
7:39
Speaker 2: That where goes are broadcast opportunity? Yeah no, sorry, Age
7:42
Speaker 2: one hundred, I think you're coming up on six hundred thousand,
7:46
Speaker 2: and there were good customers.
7:51
Speaker 3: That's how you get the Jensen Q and A it's sigraph.
7:55
Speaker 4: Yeah.
7:55
Speaker 1: The point that he's getting at is that, hey, maybe
7:57
Speaker 1: this race is already over with open source Lama, which
8:01
Speaker 1: obviously goes head to head with open AI, and again
8:03
Speaker 1: back into this Tesla even or Elon even need to
8:06
Speaker 1: go the direction of building an AI. If we in
8:08
Speaker 1: fact have these kinds of moves happening already, what are
8:11
Speaker 1: your thoughts.
8:12
Speaker 2: I love Nvidio, and I love Jensen and even Mark
8:15
Speaker 2: Zuckerberg and his weird new look. Is there maybe growing
8:19
Speaker 2: on me, not just the Harris the chain. So anyways,
8:23
Speaker 2: I think that there's no reason to build GROM, like
8:27
Speaker 2: there's already open AI. Chat is great. You know, Google's
8:32
Speaker 2: working super hard on this stuff. Facebook's working hard on
8:34
Speaker 2: this stuff. So Elon's just trying to get in front
8:37
Speaker 2: of the you know, crowd and stay relevant and build something.
8:40
Speaker 2: But as I said, I think fundamentally he's building something
8:44
Speaker 2: that doesn't need to exist on bad data. And so
8:48
Speaker 2: what Zuck is saying is really smart because Facebook also
8:51
Speaker 2: has a ton of bad data and and old data
8:55
Speaker 2: and questionable data, and you know, you say, okay, So
9:00
Speaker 2: he's like, oh, I'm open source and I'm just like
9:01
Speaker 2: spending tons of money Facebook money. And for Facebook, they
9:05
Speaker 2: have an application in that I place ads on Facebook
9:08
Speaker 2: and I can use AI to get better results because
9:11
Speaker 2: Apple's made it very hard for me to make money
9:13
Speaker 2: on ads. So for Meta, we saw their earnings report
9:17
Speaker 2: like in the stock rallied, and we're seeing them a
9:21
Speaker 2: real beneficiary because they have a platform that now everybody
9:24
Speaker 2: uses and will stick with, which is Instagram and threads.
9:29
Speaker 2: And I don't think people use Facebook anymore, really like
9:32
Speaker 2: young people. But Instagram is still the king. But with
9:37
Speaker 2: the demise of Twitter, it's made Instagram more relevant. Actually,
9:41
Speaker 2: so Elon's actually helped Zuckerberg have better data, better situation
9:45
Speaker 2: and now Zucks go on all in. And you know,
9:51
Speaker 2: I don't own Meta because morally I think Instagram's just
9:54
Speaker 2: like cigarettes. But like, but boy, they're doing it the
9:58
Speaker 2: right way. I think I think they're doing like as
10:01
Speaker 2: an advertiser, I can get value from this today.
10:03
Speaker 1: All right, So I want to I want to play
10:05
Speaker 1: another clip for you because now we're on off of
10:07
Speaker 1: AI and moving on to what some of the other
10:09
Speaker 1: automakers are doing. And one of them in particular, is
10:14
Speaker 1: starting to do something I think that is one innovative
10:18
Speaker 1: and two is starting to maybe break down some walls
10:21
Speaker 1: in the blockchain side of things.
10:22
Speaker 2: Let me play this clip from Toyota.
10:25
Speaker 5: Japanese automotive giant Toyota is leveraging Ethereum blockchain in designing
10:30
Speaker 5: vehicle mobility oriented accounts that's now. The design proposes creating
10:35
Speaker 5: blockchain digital accounts for cars, potentially enabling fully autonomous driving
10:41
Speaker 5: in the future. Recently unveiled as part of Toyota's Mobility
10:44
Speaker 5: three point zero concept, the project focuses on exploring mobility
10:49
Speaker 5: through a smart account on the blockchain. Introducing vehicle mobility
10:53
Speaker 5: onto public blockchains brings tokenizing rights, making a car function
10:57
Speaker 5: as a completely independent survey entity.
11:01
Speaker 6: Using data integrated with infrastructure, you can deliver goods quickly
11:06
Speaker 6: and efficiently to the customers who order them.
11:10
Speaker 4: The role of cost will be to connect to society
11:13
Speaker 4: and expand the possibilities. You'll be able to go shopping
11:17
Speaker 4: from an in your car after parking. You can share
11:21
Speaker 4: electricity in energy grid mode to help the community. Is
11:27
Speaker 4: infinitely customizable depending on the customer's knees.
11:32
Speaker 6: Arriving in the city, it quickly transforms into a farm
11:35
Speaker 6: stand in a city square. It can turn into a
11:39
Speaker 6: coffee shop or a food truck. At night, it can
11:43
Speaker 6: become a bar. And there will be more new business
11:45
Speaker 6: possibilities and new partners in the value chain US.
11:49
Speaker 1: There's Toyota really kind of starting to go out on
11:52
Speaker 1: the edge a little bit. Yeah, head to head here
11:55
Speaker 1: with with Tasla. I mean they're building something that is
11:57
Speaker 1: quite a bit different than the cyber truck, which it
11:59
Speaker 1: seems to be much more useful at least than the potential,
12:03
Speaker 1: but also utilizing blockchain of course, trying to tie into
12:06
Speaker 1: network and potentially the future of how evs are going
12:09
Speaker 1: to be done. Do you think Tasla has missed the
12:13
Speaker 1: boat here on innovation?
12:15
Speaker 2: What the tech people and the business people might think
12:18
Speaker 2: humans want is often wrong, And the more complicated things are,
12:24
Speaker 2: the less humans want to deal with that. You know,
12:27
Speaker 2: we actually prefer simplicity. Like I want to turn on Netflix.
12:31
Speaker 2: I want to find all my shows, but now I've
12:33
Speaker 2: got seven apps and that sucks because i can't find
12:36
Speaker 2: my shows, and so I'll just stick with my Netflix
12:39
Speaker 2: because it's just easier. And that's the way humans are now. Okay.
12:44
Speaker 2: The younger generation is the laziest generation that's ever been,
12:47
Speaker 2: you know, created in America. And I don't mean this
12:50
Speaker 2: in a negative way. They look at the world differently
12:53
Speaker 2: than older generation people. They're much more comfortable with less
12:58
Speaker 2: wealth and income and that's fine with them. But the
13:01
Speaker 2: idea that we're all going to change our behaviors massively
13:05
Speaker 2: around technology isn't actually what's going to happen. And it
13:09
Speaker 2: was sort of like Steve jobs Is brilliance was he
13:11
Speaker 2: understood what consumers wanted and build technology for that, versus
13:16
Speaker 2: building technology that you think consumers might want, you know.
13:21
Speaker 2: And so for example, like mobility, people all want their
13:26
Speaker 2: own cars. I'm sorry, people want their own cars. They
13:29
Speaker 2: customize their cars. Even within the Tesla community, you will
13:33
Speaker 2: find hundreds of different wraps and rims and customized options
13:38
Speaker 2: because Tesla doesn't offer you anything more than a base car.
13:41
Speaker 2: And Tesla drivers are not happy just driving a black
13:44
Speaker 2: Model Y or a white Model Y, and so they're
13:46
Speaker 2: spending money with lots of great companies like on Plug
13:49
Speaker 2: Performance and all that customize the cars. A car is
13:53
Speaker 2: an extension of a person's personality. That's what it is.
13:56
Speaker 2: And so the idea that we're all going to want
13:59
Speaker 2: to take the these cabs that are ubiquitous and all
14:02
Speaker 2: the same and the only purpose of life is to
14:05
Speaker 2: get from A to B doesn't understand humans at all.
14:08
Speaker 2: It just doesn't understand humans at all. And and humans
14:12
Speaker 2: are not giving up driving their cars anytime soon. Okay,
14:16
Speaker 2: So we will have a ROBOTAXI, we will have technologies
14:20
Speaker 2: that are super cool. But will that make money? Will
14:24
Speaker 2: that be a viable business? Probably not. And then when
14:28
Speaker 2: you extrapol it out, Toyota probably one of the most
14:30
Speaker 2: confused companies that you could, you know, find in the
14:34
Speaker 2: last five years about what the future is, you know,
14:37
Speaker 2: and they just switch leadership, you know, and all this
14:40
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. They are not the leader of vehicles.
14:43
Speaker 2: They are catching up now to the leader, which is Tesla.
14:47
Speaker 2: Tesla owns the crown. Okay, they own the crown, and
14:51
Speaker 2: they are simply giving up the crown to competitors because
14:55
Speaker 2: of a lack of focus and because the CEO, Elon Musk,
14:59
Speaker 2: has decided to curiate basically everybody, you know, So unless
15:03
Speaker 2: you're basically a white supremacist, he's probably insulted you. Oh
15:07
Speaker 2: and by the way, the Europeans are a lot like
15:09
Speaker 2: the people in California. So don't think anybody in Europe
15:12
Speaker 2: is excited about Tesla clause they're not. And so I'm like,
15:15
Speaker 2: what is Elon doing? So I call it anti marketing.
15:18
Speaker 2: Elon's like the anti marketer for Tesla. He convinces people
15:22
Speaker 2: not to buy the car, despite it being the best
15:24
Speaker 2: car with the best technology, the best experience, the best
15:28
Speaker 2: at everything, and they're still selling cars by lowering prices.
15:32
Speaker 2: But the king of the company all he can do
15:35
Speaker 2: is piss off all the people who live in the
15:37
Speaker 2: kingdom every day.
15:38
Speaker 1: One thing I want to hit on is a clip
15:42
Speaker 1: from you and I. This was quite some time ago
15:44
Speaker 1: and we were talking about data. And I want to
15:46
Speaker 1: present this because I think this hits to your point,
15:50
Speaker 1: but maybe in the sense that it might change your
15:53
Speaker 1: opinion on how young people might be willing to do something.
15:56
Speaker 2: Let me play this clip for you.
15:59
Speaker 1: What happens if we get an open source element around
16:03
Speaker 1: data ownership, which could come in Web three And where
16:07
Speaker 1: would Tesla's position be on that?
16:09
Speaker 2: So if I make that open source, I lose a
16:12
Speaker 2: lot of power, you know, But I think from an
16:14
Speaker 2: idea perspective, open source is amazing.
16:16
Speaker 7: We're all gonna own it. We gonna own the data.
16:20
Speaker 7: People thought that I was lookerer in the brain that
16:23
Speaker 7: will never work well. They are forced to thanks to
16:28
Speaker 7: the EU Data Act. And how it works is so
16:31
Speaker 7: they go to a kind of we call it marketplace
16:34
Speaker 7: and they ask you, hey, mister driver, can you share
16:37
Speaker 7: your data. I'm gonna give you five tokens in return,
16:40
Speaker 7: so you get paid now for sharing your own data.
16:44
Speaker 7: You can use all the tokens that you've got over
16:46
Speaker 7: here and pay for a portion for the insurance contract
16:49
Speaker 7: or replacement of tires whatever. On the right side, you
16:53
Speaker 7: see it. Europe is already part of our shareholder. The
16:56
Speaker 7: Apple will be released in September.
16:59
Speaker 1: All right, so this is a blockchain platform. But of course,
17:01
Speaker 1: looking at the.
17:02
Speaker 2: Yeah we were much younger than Yeah, we looked good.
17:06
Speaker 1: But the point was is we talked about this very issue,
17:09
Speaker 1: is that the open source would eventually occur owners owning
17:13
Speaker 1: their own data. Now that that drills down into automotive data,
17:17
Speaker 1: which when you look at the amount of data that
17:19
Speaker 1: is collected by Tesla, you know, I drive one, you
17:22
Speaker 1: drive one, you know what our profiles are where you know,
17:25
Speaker 1: everything about that car is being transmitted back to the mothership.
17:29
Speaker 1: This could have impact possibly maybe the future of how
17:32
Speaker 1: data is collected by Tesla, especially in the EU, and
17:36
Speaker 1: especially if it goes in Okay, especially if it goes
17:38
Speaker 1: into the driver now retaining ownership of that data and
17:42
Speaker 1: Tesla no longer having What does that do for Tesla
17:45
Speaker 1: as a global car company going forward.
17:48
Speaker 2: Well, you know, you're bringing up some very important and
17:51
Speaker 2: interesting issues about privacy and data. So our data has
17:55
Speaker 2: been basically like stolen from us by all these companies
17:58
Speaker 2: all these years and used for whatever way they want.
18:01
Speaker 2: And then you know, Europe really was progressive with their laws,
18:04
Speaker 2: and it's really tough for a lot of these companies
18:06
Speaker 2: because they have to like protect your data, God forbid, right.
18:11
Speaker 2: I kind of believe at some point the individual will
18:16
Speaker 2: have a legal right to protect their data in the
18:19
Speaker 2: United States in Europe, and companies will have to ask
18:23
Speaker 2: permission and or compensate people for that data. And if
18:27
Speaker 2: everybody goes into their Tesla, you can say like, I
18:30
Speaker 2: don't want to share my data, you know, and if
18:33
Speaker 2: everybody starts doing that, it's detrimental to the data collectors.
18:37
Speaker 2: All sure, yeah, And you know, this is exactly what
18:40
Speaker 2: happened with Apple and Meta when Apple was like, you're
18:44
Speaker 2: done scraping everything off our phones and shut them down,
18:47
Speaker 2: and then advertisers couldn't target and for a couple of
18:50
Speaker 2: quarters they were really eating grow because that just didn't
18:53
Speaker 2: work as well, it just didn't work hammered. Yeah, So
18:56
Speaker 2: then they figured out some way around this, I think.
18:59
Speaker 2: But that said, what we do that data is extremely
19:04
Speaker 2: valuable to lots of companies, whether it's Netflix and our
19:07
Speaker 2: viewing habits, to driving where we go Uber, where we
19:12
Speaker 2: like to go on New Year's Eve, and when's the
19:15
Speaker 2: busiest timeframes, and you know, like so, open sourcing data
19:21
Speaker 2: has a lot of advantages for smaller players. You know,
19:25
Speaker 2: so if I want to have competitors to the big companies,
19:28
Speaker 2: open source is a great way to do it. So
19:31
Speaker 2: allowing people to have access to data that aren't Google
19:34
Speaker 2: and Meta the big companies gives them an equal playing field.
19:38
Speaker 2: Because what really keeps these monopolies in charge, whether it
19:41
Speaker 2: be Apple, whatever, is the fact that they do control
19:44
Speaker 2: your data, and they do know everything about you, and
19:46
Speaker 2: they can serve ads or sell you products or hardware
19:49
Speaker 2: and software knowing exactly what you do and what you want,
19:52
Speaker 2: you know, and that's why they're the most valuable companies
19:55
Speaker 2: in the world. So if we're going to make the
19:57
Speaker 2: world a better place, there's a lot of upside to
20:00
Speaker 2: That's why I'm a big fan of bitcoin and blockchain
20:03
Speaker 2: technology and sort of open source information. And then how
20:09
Speaker 2: do we build things that are actually beneficial for society,
20:12
Speaker 2: not just for commerce, right for sure.
20:15
Speaker 1: Well, I think the point you're getting at is this
20:17
Speaker 1: just put a lot more in the consumers and the
20:20
Speaker 1: individual that you know is actually you know, developing the
20:24
Speaker 1: data itself on a day and day out basis. One
20:26
Speaker 1: of the things that we hit on in our last
20:29
Speaker 1: interview was we were talking about the company hive Mapper.
20:32
Speaker 1: This is a company that pays you to go out
20:35
Speaker 1: and map city streets. So you think about this as
20:37
Speaker 1: Google Maps, you know, it's kind of maybe the next future.
20:40
Speaker 1: A lot has happened since we last talked.
20:43
Speaker 7: Ross.
20:43
Speaker 1: I want to play a clip for you, and then
20:45
Speaker 1: I want to show you something real quick. You know,
20:47
Speaker 1: you look at what I think it was, hive Mapper.
20:49
Speaker 1: Here's another one. Do you think Tesla will ever make
20:52
Speaker 1: those kinds of leaps forward in terms of Web three
20:55
Speaker 1: technology integrations?
20:56
Speaker 2: Well, some of that is just gimmick, you know, it's
20:59
Speaker 2: like gimmicky. People are really into Web three and it's
21:03
Speaker 2: the future. Ross, it's the future. It's not the future
21:06
Speaker 2: five months ago.
21:07
Speaker 1: What has been done in that period of time about.
21:10
Speaker 2: To hit six million unique round kilometers mapped.
21:13
Speaker 7: That's about ten percent of the world roads mapped.
21:17
Speaker 4: You guys already mapped out twenty percent of the world's
21:21
Speaker 4: roads and probably a little over eighteen months.
21:24
Speaker 6: And that's an incredible accomplishment in itself.
21:27
Speaker 1: So this company a blockchain company, that is, and we've
21:30
Speaker 1: used these devices, we've checked them out here in our
21:33
Speaker 1: studio before, some of our tech team does it. Now
21:35
Speaker 1: twenty five percent global coverage mapping really accelerating. Even me,
21:42
Speaker 1: I was surprised, and I talked to their CEO a
21:45
Speaker 1: couple of times at how efficient they've been able to
21:48
Speaker 1: get this done. They're getting ready to add in a
21:51
Speaker 1: new camera technology into this device and their system because
21:55
Speaker 1: they basically pay you, as an individual car owner to
21:58
Speaker 1: put this camera in your car, go out and bump
22:00
Speaker 1: all these roads. Now they're going into spatial computing, which
22:04
Speaker 1: is going to change the dynamics around everything spatial computing.
22:08
Speaker 1: Why would Elon not go this route with spatial computing
22:13
Speaker 1: cameras on the front of all these Tesla's if in
22:15
Speaker 1: fact we could share the data, because that opens up
22:18
Speaker 1: a whole new layer of potential revenue for Tesla.
22:21
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts? So the data that Google's collecting
22:24
Speaker 2: is really really good data on our roads and three
22:28
Speaker 2: D maps of our roads. And with their mapping history
22:33
Speaker 2: and their you know, Google Earth satellite history, Google is
22:38
Speaker 2: a master of these kind of things, you know, like
22:41
Speaker 2: mapping every road. So so these kind of companies can
22:46
Speaker 2: go do this, but depending on the kind of cameras
22:49
Speaker 2: they use and the systems they use, they have to
22:52
Speaker 2: be able to work with the hardware and the software together,
22:55
Speaker 2: and so that means all the other people have to
22:57
Speaker 2: use the camera systems that these people have used. And
23:00
Speaker 2: one of the issues Tesla has is your camera systems
23:04
Speaker 2: have to be really good. So when you're putting in
23:07
Speaker 2: like Hardware three, in Tesla's it uses a certain camera system,
23:11
Speaker 2: and Hardware four uses a much better camera system, digital
23:15
Speaker 2: cameras that are much higher quality. And one of the
23:17
Speaker 2: things Tesla's learning, which they haven't admitted yet, is that
23:20
Speaker 2: this isn't the best way to do it. Okay, Why well,
23:25
Speaker 2: because those cameras can't compete with your really your eyes,
23:29
Speaker 2: they just really just can't. So in the cyber truck,
23:31
Speaker 2: it has really good cameras and it's really helpful in
23:34
Speaker 2: driving the cyber truck, especially parking it, and the quality
23:38
Speaker 2: of the video is super good, but it's not your eye,
23:42
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. And so this is the
23:44
Speaker 2: challenge that all mapping. So so Google spending two hundred
23:48
Speaker 2: and fifty thousand on these cars that are mapping, and
23:51
Speaker 2: that's just using tons of tecklidar or whatever. And so
23:54
Speaker 2: what I fear is that many of the systems that
23:58
Speaker 2: people perceive will work work are not good enough to
24:01
Speaker 2: work in real life integrated with human behavior.
24:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think that I think the key there, though,
24:09
Speaker 1: ross is going to be the freshness of the data.
24:11
Speaker 1: You know, the fact that you've got companies.
24:12
Speaker 2: Out there roads.
24:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and they're deploying you know, whether it is
24:16
Speaker 1: the advanced technology. Obviously, as you know in tech, everything
24:20
Speaker 1: is a race to zero, So the cost of building
24:22
Speaker 1: spatial computing cameras are going to get lower and lower.
24:25
Speaker 2: So they're not you know, like spatial computing cameras are
24:30
Speaker 2: not cheap, you know, and that is true.
24:33
Speaker 1: I mean, the device that hivemapper sells is fairly pricey.
24:37
Speaker 1: But at the same time they're you know, they're rewarding
24:39
Speaker 1: on the back end through a token is system to
24:42
Speaker 1: be able to get that mapping data in again, decentralized mapping,
24:46
Speaker 1: which is a benefit for privacy, security, all those kind
24:49
Speaker 1: of things. And it also doesn't put Google in the
24:52
Speaker 1: middle of holding everything. Speaking of that, so I'll leave
24:56
Speaker 1: it at that in the sense of because I think
24:59
Speaker 1: we are on the same page of the technology that's
25:02
Speaker 1: required for it to go in that direction. This is
25:05
Speaker 1: a point in looking at revenue on Tesla and this
25:08
Speaker 1: surprised me, and this is Tesla is banking billions in
25:13
Speaker 1: regulatory emission credits. I didn't realize this was happening to
25:16
Speaker 1: this level, and that is one point seventy nine billion
25:20
Speaker 1: in regulatory credit revenue last year. The likelihood is we
25:24
Speaker 1: could see some tokenization of this, and this of course
25:27
Speaker 1: would all live on what most likely would especially if
25:30
Speaker 1: you look at how Blackrock and what Securitized has done,
25:33
Speaker 1: which is their tokenized real world security assets. Could that
25:38
Speaker 1: play into this for things like regulatory credits in the
25:41
Speaker 1: future That would of course lean in on things like
25:45
Speaker 1: ethereum and all of that.
25:46
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on.
25:48
Speaker 1: This as a strategy for Tesla in the future, especially
25:51
Speaker 1: around these credits.
25:53
Speaker 2: I think for me, I think the blockchain and I
25:57
Speaker 2: think using these types of systems makes a lot of
26:01
Speaker 2: sense in many ways, but it's been very difficult to
26:06
Speaker 2: apply this actually in actuality. And so I think there's
26:11
Speaker 2: many things like real estate that can be tokenized and
26:15
Speaker 2: put on the blockchain and traded, and I just think it's,
26:18
Speaker 2: like all these technologies, it just takes a long time, Yeah,
26:22
Speaker 2: for these things to happen.
26:23
Speaker 1: You're talking about we're encroaching now up to almost two
26:26
Speaker 1: hundred million people that own crypto in some way. This
26:29
Speaker 1: is globally, you know, globally that's a significant number.
26:32
Speaker 7: You know.
26:33
Speaker 1: Does this go to a billion users over the next decade. Yeah,
26:36
Speaker 1: I think this is I think curve that we're going
26:39
Speaker 1: to be on. So to your point, there is a
26:42
Speaker 1: subset of society that's always going to be kind of lagging.
26:44
Speaker 1: But one of the areas that is never lagging is
26:47
Speaker 1: gaming and the gaming culture.
26:49
Speaker 2: And we've seen this all.
26:50
Speaker 1: The way back into the in the eighties, the nineties,
26:53
Speaker 1: the two thousands. Okay, sorry, why has Tesla not gone
27:00
Speaker 1: the direction of gaming? I was just looking at some
27:03
Speaker 1: of the things that have been done here already. We
27:05
Speaker 1: see a lot of gaming in the web three space.
27:08
Speaker 1: We're continuing to see this. This is just showing some
27:10
Speaker 1: of the playtron.
27:11
Speaker 2: You know, I have to disagree with that. I can
27:14
Speaker 2: go play video games on my Tesla right now. They're
27:16
Speaker 2: the only car company in the world that I can
27:18
Speaker 2: play video games in my car right now, localized.
27:22
Speaker 1: Yes, why not double down on this? If gaming is
27:26
Speaker 1: such a societal connection, why do you think Tesla has
27:30
Speaker 1: not really doubled down on this? Why don't we have,
27:32
Speaker 1: you know, like a remote Tesla steam I mean, I'm
27:34
Speaker 1: just looking at the things that you could do, like
27:37
Speaker 1: a steam.
27:37
Speaker 2: Ball day law. Yeah, you know, I have this this
27:41
Speaker 2: thing because I want to make it clear. I don't
27:43
Speaker 2: want to be the CEO of Tesla, but if I
27:46
Speaker 2: was the CEO of Tesla, things would be very different
27:49
Speaker 2: than it is today because what I would be doing
27:52
Speaker 2: is leaning in in exactly that. Yeah. One of the things, So,
27:55
Speaker 2: I drive a cyber truck and I have a plaid
27:58
Speaker 2: to Tesla models plaid, and I've been driving the cyber truck.
28:01
Speaker 2: And one thing is one hundred percent of children love
28:03
Speaker 2: the cyber truck. You know, fifty percent of adults hate
28:06
Speaker 2: the cyber truck. One hundred percent of kids love the
28:08
Speaker 2: cyber truck. I'm more popular than Mickey Mouse when I
28:11
Speaker 2: drive through the neighborhood. And why do kids love it
28:16
Speaker 2: so much? It's because it's a vision of the future.
28:18
Speaker 2: But then they get in the car and the first
28:20
Speaker 2: thing my kid does is he puts on his YouTube
28:23
Speaker 2: and starts watching it in the backseat, or they want
28:26
Speaker 2: a game in my car, and I'm like, it gets
28:27
Speaker 2: annoying because they won't leave the car. They want to
28:30
Speaker 2: do the fart sounds. It's the only car that I
28:32
Speaker 2: know of that has fart sounds. I mean, you know,
28:35
Speaker 2: you can make fun of it or whatever, but this
28:37
Speaker 2: is the kind of consumer stuff that sells cars. It
28:40
Speaker 2: just does. And this was the brilliance of Tesla in
28:43
Speaker 2: its early days and when Elon was focused and Tesla
28:47
Speaker 2: was his baby. That's why this happened. Because Elon's a
28:50
Speaker 2: gamer too. You know, we're the same age. I grew
28:52
Speaker 2: up gaming. I'm still a gamer. I game a lot,
28:54
Speaker 2: and you know I found Nvidia, you know, ten plus
28:57
Speaker 2: years ago thanks to gaming. You know, I had no
29:00
Speaker 2: idea they'd be building AI chips today. You know, It's
29:03
Speaker 2: been one of the best investments of my career. But
29:05
Speaker 2: when you think about what Tesla could be doing is
29:07
Speaker 2: leaning in on the positive side of the consumer experience
29:10
Speaker 2: that they've been so successful with Their interface is better,
29:13
Speaker 2: is better than anybody's. This is the This is my
29:16
Speaker 2: single greatest source of frustration is that I still think
29:20
Speaker 2: that they make the best cars with the best interface.
29:23
Speaker 2: And full self driving is still great and it's helpful
29:27
Speaker 2: and I use it. Autopilot's great for the freeways. It
29:30
Speaker 2: can take me all the way to seean Diego without
29:33
Speaker 2: interve intervention. The communications services in the car, I can
29:37
Speaker 2: do zoom calls in the car. It's genius. You know.
29:41
Speaker 2: Whenever I rent a car, it always reminds me how
29:44
Speaker 2: far ahead Tesla is. Now. I have Rivian now too, Okay,
29:48
Speaker 2: and Rivian is a great company, and they have good software,
29:52
Speaker 2: but it's still they don't have fart sounds, they don't
29:54
Speaker 2: have video games, they don't have the consumer experience even
29:57
Speaker 2: close yet to what Tesla's at. And so Rivian is
30:02
Speaker 2: a close second, but that's still got a lot of
30:04
Speaker 2: work to do. And and so I I think that's
30:07
Speaker 2: the opportunity in Tesla if somebody came back and showed
30:10
Speaker 2: it some.
30:10
Speaker 1: Movate you know, yeah, keep innovating. Well, I think charging
30:16
Speaker 1: network there's many things I continue.
30:18
Speaker 2: To see storage, yes.
30:20
Speaker 1: All the things that we've talked about before around the
30:22
Speaker 1: future of it, and I think also the promise of
30:24
Speaker 1: what Tesla really was. Back to your point is that
30:27
Speaker 1: the innovations at Tesla used to come out by the
30:31
Speaker 1: dozens every month. It was like you couldn't keep up
30:33
Speaker 1: with the amount, you know, and I've started to see this.
30:36
Speaker 1: This This tells you when something's wrong, is when you
30:39
Speaker 1: see less and less podcasters that were just focused on
30:43
Speaker 1: Tesla and they've started to deviate onto other things because
30:47
Speaker 1: there's not enough news.
30:48
Speaker 2: There's not enough news. Well, they're kind of going out
30:50
Speaker 2: of business. You know. It's like the way it was
30:54
Speaker 2: was like all of us Tesla supporters and fans supported
30:58
Speaker 2: each other, and it was a wonderful community, and it
31:00
Speaker 2: was kind of based around clean energy, you know, it's
31:02
Speaker 2: kind of based around the environmental mission, which many of us,
31:06
Speaker 2: including myself, is the main driver, one of my main
31:09
Speaker 2: investment themes. But in my personal life, I care about
31:12
Speaker 2: the environment is one of the most important things from
31:14
Speaker 2: a charitable perspective and also just from a life perspective.
31:17
Speaker 2: And so it built a wonderful community and then you
31:21
Speaker 2: saw all the podcasters grow, and the different websites around
31:25
Speaker 2: evs and the writers like electric and all these great
31:29
Speaker 2: blogs about evs. And then when Elon bought Twitter and
31:33
Speaker 2: pivoted away from being a guy who sells evs and
31:36
Speaker 2: cares about the environment, who lives in California and is
31:38
Speaker 2: liberal to a guy who lives in Texas who basically,
31:42
Speaker 2: you know, is complete opposite of that guy he used
31:44
Speaker 2: to be. It's shattered the community in many ways. So
31:49
Speaker 2: it's either you are on elon side or you're a
31:51
Speaker 2: bad guy, you know. So they've made me into a
31:54
Speaker 2: bad guy, you know, the guy who was there when
31:56
Speaker 2: Elon needed help for the last ten years, you know,
31:59
Speaker 2: investing millions of supporting the company in many ways that
32:03
Speaker 2: people never saw, you know, behind the scenes. And you know,
32:06
Speaker 2: I get it, Elon got tired of me saying he
32:09
Speaker 2: was doing stupid stuff. But I'm sorry, it's my opinion
32:12
Speaker 2: and he doesn't have to respect it. That's fine. But
32:15
Speaker 2: I think the stock price, you know, speaks for itself.
32:17
Speaker 2: It's down forty percent over the last three years, and
32:21
Speaker 2: it's because of Twitter, and that's the only reason. And
32:23
Speaker 2: so you know, Elon Musk has tremendous potential when he's
32:27
Speaker 2: focused on what's important. And I think that fixed Tesla.
32:31
Speaker 2: But the community is dead now, you know, because it's
32:34
Speaker 2: basically people arguing all the time that if you say
32:37
Speaker 2: anything that's critical, then you're a bad guy. And and
32:40
Speaker 2: and then you know, you've got to make excuses for
32:42
Speaker 2: everything Elon does every day if you're a blogger. So
32:44
Speaker 2: it's really hard to be a YouTuber on Tesla now
32:47
Speaker 2: because you basically have to make excuses every day.
32:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's a constant scenario. Do you think
32:52
Speaker 1: the value of the stock right now is on point
32:54
Speaker 1: with the company and trading it around two oh seven
32:57
Speaker 1: right now?
32:57
Speaker 2: No, I think it's vastly overvalued right now, it's still okay, yeah,
33:01
Speaker 2: oh yeah. I mean, you know, you can look at
33:04
Speaker 2: a company like I love the cars, I love the company,
33:08
Speaker 2: and then you can look at a stock, and a
33:09
Speaker 2: stock has to trade based off what its future earnings
33:13
Speaker 2: potential is. Okay, it's not what I can invent one
33:16
Speaker 2: hundred things that don't make money that it's not going
33:19
Speaker 2: to make the stock go up, you see what I'm saying.
33:21
Speaker 2: And so stocks go up based off return of capital
33:25
Speaker 2: and investment and real cash flow, and those numbers are
33:29
Speaker 2: going down at Tesla. So the question would be what
33:32
Speaker 2: will get the numbers in Tesla to go up? Okay,
33:35
Speaker 2: because then the stock should trade it a multiple similar
33:37
Speaker 2: to in Video or Microsoft, like forty to fifty times
33:40
Speaker 2: forward earnings, which is a very high multiple. Okay. You know,
33:44
Speaker 2: once again, these are big numbers, and I you know,
33:47
Speaker 2: anybody who thinks one hundred pe is something normal is wrong.
33:50
Speaker 2: You know. My basic premise is twenty pe or less
33:53
Speaker 2: is what we want to pay for stocks, you know,
33:56
Speaker 2: and especially with higher growth rates than twenty percent. So
33:59
Speaker 2: that's what we look for. It's Tesla fall into that
34:01
Speaker 2: and in no way, shape or form, you know. So
34:04
Speaker 2: it's not cheap by any means. And so when you say,
34:07
Speaker 2: how does Tesla get their earnings to double, because that's
34:10
Speaker 2: what has to happen. So they're at two dollars and
34:14
Speaker 2: fifty cents a share, how do they get to five
34:16
Speaker 2: dollars a share? Okay, so let's just chart out that path.
34:20
Speaker 2: How do they get to five dollars a share in earnings? Well,
34:23
Speaker 2: two things have to happen. They have to sell more
34:25
Speaker 2: cars and not lose more margin, you know, so margin
34:28
Speaker 2: must stay the same. Let's just assume margin is not
34:31
Speaker 2: going to go up, so margin must stay the same,
34:34
Speaker 2: and they have to sell more cars, okay, and then
34:38
Speaker 2: earnings would go up, right, Okay, simple formula. And so
34:42
Speaker 2: you say, how do we sell more cars than the
34:44
Speaker 2: same margin? And it's not you know, having street fights
34:49
Speaker 2: with Madero and Venezuela. That doesn't actually sell cars, as
34:54
Speaker 2: they said, it's an anti marketing campaign. So Tesla has
34:57
Speaker 2: to lower margins and the price to sell CA cars
35:00
Speaker 2: because the people will only buy them based off price. Now,
35:03
Speaker 2: because it doesn't align with anybody's values. So this is
35:06
Speaker 2: why I'm like, well, what should test to be Well,
35:09
Speaker 2: if it does two fifteen earnings and you give it
35:10
Speaker 2: fifty fifty times, or even if you give him three
35:13
Speaker 2: dollars an earner, you do fifty times, you're at one fifty,
35:16
Speaker 2: you know, so you give them even benefit of doubt.
35:18
Speaker 2: I think estimates for next year's at three twenty, even
35:20
Speaker 2: though I think that's foolish, you know. So then you
35:23
Speaker 2: say it's one sixty five or one sixty you know,
35:26
Speaker 2: so you know Tesla's overvalued by those standards, you know, Yeah, sure,
35:30
Speaker 2: so do I think they can write the ship. Absolutely.
35:33
Speaker 2: Do they have great assets and technology, absolutely, But it
35:36
Speaker 2: just doesn't matter if the CEO doesn't care about selling cars,
35:40
Speaker 2: and now he's made it clear that he doesn't want
35:42
Speaker 2: to sell cars. He wants to do robo taxis. He
35:45
Speaker 2: wants to do robots. And if you want to talk
35:47
Speaker 2: about robots, I'm not a big believer that people are
35:50
Speaker 2: going to be having like robots in their houses anytime soon.
35:54
Speaker 2: So you know that's another problem.
35:56
Speaker 1: Well we'll get to save that one for another day.
35:58
Speaker 1: But a Ross gerb great to have you on the
36:01
Speaker 1: show today. Thank you so much for stopping in. Of course,
36:03
Speaker 1: if you guys want to learn a little bit more
36:04
Speaker 1: about what Ross is doing, just go over and visit
36:06
Speaker 1: Gerber Kawasaki. You can learn a little bit about them.
36:09
Speaker 1: Thanks again for coming in today.
36:10
Speaker 2: We appreciate it. Ross. Yeah, thanks for having me. Good
36:12
Speaker 2: to see you. It's nice to see those It is fun.
36:16
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