Latest / IB Unplugged / IB Unplugged Live @ AEF: Building Ubuntu Through Education w/ Amy Sarr Fall

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IB Unplugged Live @ AEF: Building Ubuntu Through Education w/ Amy Sarr Fall · IB Unplugged

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Welcome to IB Unplugged, a Kognity podcast for IBDP educators,
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that tackles your submitted challenges and questions by connecting you with
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Whether you're a seasoned educator or new to the IB world, each bi weekly episode
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helping you teach with more confidence, creativity, and joy.
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Hi everybody, and welcome to this week's episode of IB Unplugged,
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which is a special edition one that John and I have had the pleasure
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to do a live IB Unplugged podcast at the African Education Festival.
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So the way that this episode works is John and I are currently recording
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from Johannesburg, South Africa,
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where we've been able to participate in the African Education Festival
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and one of the plenary sessions has been with Amy Sarr Fall,
1:00
where we've had the pleasure
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of being able to ask her some questions about her experience and really dive
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into kind of some of the themes that she talked about in her keynote.
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So with this episode, what you'll see is first our introduction,
1:13
which we're doing right now,
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then you're going to kind of tune into the live element of it.
1:17
And then during the live podcast, we had so many people
1:22
add so many amazing questions.
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We had a Slido up, people submitted their questions
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and we said, we can't leave these unanswered.
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So we met with Amy
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afterwards, we said, let's dive in.
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Let's get to some of these questions that people asked.
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And that's how this is all going to go.
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Yeah.
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We're really excited for you to hear from Amy.
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Amy is an absolutely incredible individual.
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She's an ambassador
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and advocate for education, sustainable development, gender equality.
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And hearing she had a keynote.
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And then we were able to talk a little bit
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with her up on stage and then follow up with her
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kind of behind the scenes, if you will.
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Now, with a few more questions.
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There's some really incredible stuff that that Amy's doing
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has some really impactful stuff for education,
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and really looking at meaningful drive of what we can really do
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within schools, IB schools and what could be our next steps together
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so that we can really empower young people.
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So really excited for this, this show.
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Exactly.
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So with that, we're going to switch over to the live event.
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And yeah, I hope you enjoy.
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Let's dive right in, because
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you had so many really impactful things that you were saying in your speech.
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One of the things that really struck me is you said,
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any individual that is coming through the classroom has a story behind them.
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They've got somebody who's pushing them,
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somebody who's really believing in them and making that true.
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And that really struck with me,
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because when we think about mentorship, sometimes it's it's like a program.
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But you very explicitly said we can move this beyond a program.
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Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
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What do you mean when you say, you know, a real great mentor is
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how do we kind of facilitate and how do we become great mentors for our students?
2:58
Thank you. Thank you so much.
3:00
Well, it's so true.
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I mean, personally, my first mentor was my mother.
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I think
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that was a masterclass in multitasking because,
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yeah, I'm always saying we overlooked that role model
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in our families, what mothers do.
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And so I think that's the first experience you have
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of what a mentor really does has as an impact on your life.
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It's just looking at somebody and saying it is possible,
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to do what she's doing because I see her doing it.
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And I think that's what
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a mentor, should offer.
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As an example, if you want to mentor a child,
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if you want to mentor and adults and the teenager
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if you want to mentor an adult, a young woman,
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make sure they can identify to your values.
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Make sure that you help them understand what those values are.
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Don't just expect them,
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to be successful because they've spoken to you.
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Make sure it's a long term contract.
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I'm using contract just to say, you know, it's
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something you pledged to do, to mentor somebody.
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So make sure you look for the results and not just,
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you know, introduce yourself, have a ten minute conversation, and then,
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you know, you can do that just watching an interview.
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But taking the time to know student, taking the time
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to inspire, taking the time to,
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help even in a career.
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Like, can you help somebody find an internship?
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Can you help somebody find a job?
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I mean, there are so many ways to be a mentor.
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It sounds like it really it's foundationally about
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being open to what that other person is bringing to the table as well.
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Right?
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And I loved what you said and or what
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it was in your speech with the idea of like,
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I'm I bringing out the best in them, not just bringing them to my comfort zone.
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So I guess there's that element of I've got to be expressing my own values
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and some of the things that we might have in common,
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but also bringing out the best that of the person is.
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Exactly, exactly.
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I think that's very important is just to give
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a sense of meaningfulness.
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When a child comes to you, make sure they know they're not coming
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without anything, they're coming with what they've already achieved.
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And that sense of achievement.
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I think that's the best way to give somebody trust.
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To give somebody confidence is to
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make sure they already recognize what they've already achieved.
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And once they have that sense of recognition, well, then they dare
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because they were like, oh, well, what I did mattered.
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Yeah. So I can do more.
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But if in the conversation of if you're
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mentoring somebody and spend most of your time saying what you've done,
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what you've achieved, then
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you intimidate the person in front of you and they're like, well,
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what can I share here?
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So make sure that the person you're talking to can also share
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what they've already achieved.
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Yeah, yeah. No, I, I love that.
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And I think that as we've gotten to know each other before this conference,
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something that really stuck out to me is how important it is for
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you and all the work that you're doing with students, especially to enable,
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female students to really be able
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to find their place and empower them with leadership.
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And if we think about everybody that's here today, that is or
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that are in schools, I think mentorship is a huge part of it.
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But what else could schools be doing to really be empowering
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the young females to feel ready to take on leadership spaces
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and take up in these spaces that you have been able to do?
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Thank you. Courtney.
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Well,
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you know, I was mentioning it a little bit in my speech.
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If you were a young, African-American student
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or you are a young African student and you study science
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and you don't get a chance to see what people who look like
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you achieved for humanity in science, then you might feel
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maybe you should just watch because this is not for you.
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This is,
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you know, I mean, the fact of being able to identify to what you learn,
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that's really the best gift you can give to a student is just, oh, this was done.
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The GPS was founded by Gladys West.
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Then maybe I can do something as well.
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That's really that was the purpose of what I was trying to communicate,
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and I hope I did it well.
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It was really to say.
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First of all, give them a sense of belonging.
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Make sure that your students know that people like them did it in the past,
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and therefore they can also do it.
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Second,
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because we don't realize it, but when I mentioned
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President Sarkozy was just to say, how does a student, because he said that
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at a university in Senegal, how do those college students
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look at to him and hear him say, oh,
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African people,
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black men did nothing for history.
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That's really how he said it.
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And when you hear that, you're like, oh, so we didn't do anything?
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We don't matter?
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And that can block a student's potential. So,
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I did not mean to be racial or anything.
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I'm just saying anybody, even women, you know, if in France, you look at,
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the fight that was led by women,
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I am here also because of those French women somehow.
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I mean, it's not about race.
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It's just about a sense of belonging.
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You know, women can vote
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because women in the US fought for it.
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But if you grow up in a community where you don't see
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a mayor who's a woman, you don't see a female mayor,
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you don't see a female lawmaker, you don't see a female doctor.
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You don't see a female school principal.
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You don't see a female leader.
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How do you think a girl
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growing up there will think she can be a leader?
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So I think references are important.
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And the best thing schools can do is really to provide those references.
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Yeah. No, I think that's really interesting.
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I remember there was one podcast where Michelle Obama was also saying
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it's important to have role models,
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but it's also important to have other people
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that you can look up to that you also say, I don't want to be like you.
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Exactly. Like you are also a woman who is a leader, but I don't want to do
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it like you. It's not like there's only one way to be a female lead.
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Exactly.
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Yeah, I agree. We received the question from the audience
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and I'd like to pose this to you, if that's right.
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Obviously, we're in a room full of educators
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and so if you had one message you would have
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for the new generation of IB educators, what would be that one message?
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As soon as you start
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the IB,
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program, just know
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you're embarking into a journey where you're not a spectator.
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You are an actor, and what is expected of you
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is to value your potential, to define your identity
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as a global citizen as well,
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to know that nothing limits you
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and that you have the power to change things.
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And if you do, CAS,
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how do you say CAS? Creativity, activity, service,
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you know, then you know,
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the importance of community, service.
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Then, you know, being a leader also means helping others.
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And I think most of what I've done in my career was inspired by that.
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That's an excellent message, Amy.
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Thank you so much.
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Obviously, we've just been able to do kind of a short Q&A
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here as part of this episode,
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but we just want to take a moment to thank you so much, Amy.
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Thank you for sharing with us.
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Thank you for taking the time to chat here as well.
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Thank you all for sticking around a little bit longer into your coffee break,
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just to learn a little bit more about Amy as well.
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Yeah. Thank you so much, Amy.
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If you want to wrap things up with one last question, let's say
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what gives you hope when you look at young people across Africa today?
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Well,
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what gives me hope is that they're not scared,
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of what's ahead.
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I mean, they take action.
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They have so much energy and they create positive trends as well.
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You know, if you look at the influencers on social networks,
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how they tackle questions and how they try to change the world
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just from being home, then you have so much hope.
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And also,
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they don't they're not scared about each other's cultures.
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They see how they can take the best out of it.
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And, they, I think they still believe in education,
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but they just expect reforms.
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They expect education.
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I mean, you look at some leaders today who deny climate change.
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Why is it that way?
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It's not because they don't see it.
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It is because people waited until they were 50 or 60 to tell them about it.
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And when you are a kid in an IB school
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and are able to know about the things about climate change,
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the consequences, well, then, you know, you have to be an actor from that age.
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And so I would just tell them to continue,
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believing in themselves in each others and,
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in the potential of humanity.
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Yeah.
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Thank you, thank you, thank you so much, Amy.
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Thank you. Absolutely wonderful.
12:47
Thank you.
12:51
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13:22
So now back to the show.
13:25
Hi, Amy, thanks so much for joining us
13:28
backstage after your session.
13:30
I appreciate you taking the time.
13:33
Thank you, Courtney.
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I'm so glad to be here and to be doing this podcast with you and John.
13:37
Thank you for having me.
13:38
Now we're excited and really, really fortunate that you have to give
13:41
a little bit more time,
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because obviously we were talking on stage where we just kind of ran out of time
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and we wanted to address some of the questions from the audience
13:47
and some of the other questions that we think are important for our listeners.
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So thanks for taking the time.
13:51
Thank you for having me.
13:52
Yeah.
13:53
Let’s do this. Yeah, we have lots of great questions
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from a lot of people in the audience that we would love to dive into.
13:59
And I think that when we were looking through all of these questions that came
14:03
in, there were some that were focusing on your experience,
14:06
with your IB education and then kind of what's looking afterwards
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in the way that you see
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a vision of education changing, kind of following on from your session.
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So if we want to think about maybe first reflecting a bit more on your IB education
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Adzo asked the question of what do you think one of the most
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defining aspects of your IB education was?
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And maybe how does that play out in your career trajectory?
14:33
Well, thank you, Courtney.
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That sounds like a very interesting question.
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The IB, I think it took a spot
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like nine years before to prepare for the diploma.
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9 or 7 years, I would say seven years.
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And so obviously, there are many challenging things
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all the way, but I think creativity, activities, service,
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which we call in French, the CAS,
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was really inspiring because
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I remember we going to an S.O.S.
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village and, be there
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with young orphans and helping them do their homework.
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And that was my first experience of doing the CAS for the IB.
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And it's so inspiring because it brings
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you back to reality and you're like, okay, we're privileged kids.
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We get to go to a private school.
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You know, we get to see our parents at the end of the day. And,
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we have great teachers, but so many young people don't have the same opportunities.
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And so you realize, well,
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maybe I need to think about working and having a purpose in life
15:42
then building my own success.
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And I think that really inspired my whole career.
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From there, I'm like, whatever I do, I need to make sure.
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It also impacts people who are less advantaged, less privileged, and,
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yeah, I would definitely say creative activity service.
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It lends quite a bit to what we've been talking with,
16:00
with people here at the African Education Festival about how we can kind
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of increase IB philosophy and ideas across the schools throughout Africa.
16:07
And I guess this is really kind of at the junction of how do you bring
16:10
what is otherwise known as, oh, this is a private school kind of thing.
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How do we bring that philosophy into other schools that may not be able
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to, I don't know, afford parts of the IB or just the access is limited?
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How do we kind of bridge that gap?
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Right. Interesting.
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When I was prepairing for the IB, I think it was in
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grade, grade ten when we went to
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a very, remote suburb at the time.
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And we were teaching kids to, to read.
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And I think that can be a first step,
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like creating connections with other schools.
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So that IB students get to know,
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the reality of those students, but also be able
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to share what they've learned, have workshops eventually.
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But ultimately, I think the most important thing to try to achieve
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is really to, make sure the IB model
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is, replicated in those schools.
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And that may require working with governments to have licenses
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eventually authorizations or,
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working with NGOs to try to finance that.
17:19
And, I myself,
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I'm hoping to play a part in that.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Well,
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I know you're interested in doing the school,
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but I just want to comment on this because that was such a really refreshing
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way of thinking of that.
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I initially, I kind of always think it's got to be done
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at kind of the policy level or the leaders of a school level.
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But what I loved about what you just said is get the students
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in acting with with local communities, with other schools, right?
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Because then it touches right back to your CAS experience,
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and it touches back to the idea of empowering.
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You know, so often
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we hear around the conference today are children, not leaders of tomorrow.
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They're leaders of today. Yes, yes, it's true.
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And this idea of like let's empower and let the students
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bring that out and recognize like here's something powerful that we can share
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and let's live the mission, let's live the model.
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And then that sort of informs the leaders, the policymakers, the NGOs
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that say this is a valuable thing and people are already invested in it.
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Honestly, like I felt pretty inspired.
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So but of course, it leads you said you want to be a part of that.
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And I understand you have some interest in starting a school in Senegal.
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I wonder if you could tell us a little bit more about that. Great.
18:27
I've actually been speaking to people in the IB,
18:30
including Dominique, about,
18:33
starting a school.
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But my idea was to start from the primary level,
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especially for kids, because I think
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the younger you give the IB philosophy to a child,
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the more prosperous, his career will be for humanity.
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So to me,
18:54
starting a school is not going to be another private school.
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My belief
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is that my conviction is that if you, build
19:06
an international school in a remote area in Senegal
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and get to, work with
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companies to sponsor the kids, then,
19:17
you can have a very good international school.
19:20
So it will be a nonprofit and, it will
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offer scholarships to students based on merit
19:29
and on, several of the factors we'll look through.
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And I believe it's possible to do that.
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And, obviously, I, I think English
19:40
is the language that everyone needs to speak in Senegal.
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I've been, you know, I've been calling for that change over the years.
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And obviously my school will be bilingual in that sense.
19:54
Yeah.
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Mostly taught in in English. Yeah.
19:58
Something that, as in the very short time between
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when we finished our session live and we came here, I had somebody stop
20:05
me and he was saying, I want to, I want to ask these questions.
20:08
And I was like, okay, well, tell me and I'll see if I can do it.
20:10
And I think it does weave in nicely here.
20:12
And he was saying that
20:15
with these students in the IB schools,
20:20
there is this idea of a lot of them
20:24
see their best opportunity as leaving to go somewhere else
20:30
for university, like somewhere off of the continent,
20:34
which is, I know something that you have also done, right?
20:37
You you did your university in Paris, right?
20:40
Right.
20:40
And so a lot of IB students, in IB schools in Africa,
20:46
the the dream goal is to go to university in Europe or in the United States.
20:53
And I think there are a lot of opportunities, obviously,
20:56
to figure out how to promote staying on the continent
21:00
and going to universities in Africa and really, developing that.
21:04
But I think another piece is you came back
21:08
and I was wondering if you could and he was wondering
21:12
if you could talk about, like, what made you decide to come back.
21:16
How do we make that feel
21:18
like a core part of the mission of the school is to be
21:22
getting this fantastic education to further your own communities?
21:26
Okay, well, I'll try to answer that.
21:31
So, yes, I did study in
21:34
France, and I was in an environment where we had 100 nationalities on campus,
21:39
and we were less than 2000 college students.
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So it was very easy to know each other's and,
21:45
so much appreciated learning about each other's cultures.
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But people know very little about Senegal, obviously,
21:52
because they don't, learn about Senegal.
21:56
And you can learn about all countries.
21:57
Right?
21:58
So, but I felt I was an ambassador on campus of my country.
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So I kept saying all the good things I know about my country.
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And, you know,
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I remember one day, at the school administration,
22:14
they came towards me and they said we should have more people from Senegal.
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How about we start a campaign to recruit more students?
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And I was so excited about it. And then,
22:24
so I read this message on the creative, and I said, please
22:28
come help me raise higher this heavy flag of Senegal.
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And, it just gave me a sense of
22:37
responsibility, knowing I have to, make sure
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I don't forget what my roots are.
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And so,
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although I was trying to build a career,
22:49
I felt compelled to come back to Senegal.
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Not just because I was speaking every day to my father on the phone.
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Who would keep telling me..
22:58
Parental guilt
23:00
is the answer to this question. Yes.
23:03
So I was like, he invested in my education.
23:06
I think he expects me to come back.
23:08
And so I really wanted to come back for that.
23:10
But on another level, I felt like to whom much is given, much is expected from.
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And, I felt like if we all leave our countries
23:19
and don't come back to play our role in building it and making it
23:22
a more prosperous place to live in, then we're missing out something big.
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And so I decided to come back, and I wasn't easy of course, to come back,
23:32
because I had started a career in New York and,
23:36
I felt like,
23:38
you know, it would have been maybe easier,
23:42
to stay abroad, but I felt like I had to come back.
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And my whole career was based on not making money,
23:50
but using everything I had to make people's lives better.
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And so I invested everything
23:56
I had in education, in health, and in giving scholarships to girls.
24:00
And I'm glad I did, because I see the results today.
24:03
Yeah, yeah.
24:05
I love that that conviction that drive.
24:07
And also I see, you know, the parental sort of influence
24:10
by, hey, come back here. Yes.
24:13
But that it has been a recurring theme that I've heard a lot
24:16
over the last couple days here at the African Education Festival.
24:18
And I guess it's that how do we
24:20
how do we ensure the students
24:21
see themselves as contributors to Africa's development, wherever they are, that
24:26
it's that it's not just I'm getting this IB education, but how do we kind of
24:30
share that conviction,
24:31
spread that a little bit wider so people recognize that responsibility as well?
24:34
Yeah, I think it's a sense of responsibility
24:37
that you, inherit from just being from the continent.
24:42
And you realize, most of our countries only got their independence in the 60s.
24:48
And so there's still so much work to be done.
24:51
And, I just have this feeling that
24:54
many of the young people who choose to leave
24:57
or partly leaving because they obviously want
25:01
better wages and more opportunities, which is totally legitimate.
25:05
But I think it also comes with the feeling
25:08
of not being a part of history, because
25:14
there is nothing much about your contribution to history
25:17
in the books you've learned from. And,
25:21
that was really what I was trying to bring in my speech earlier on.
25:25
It's if you are going to,
25:29
to give education to a child,
25:31
make sure they can see themselves in what you're teaching them.
25:35
Yeah, that will help them
25:36
believe in themselves and that will give them a sense of belonging.
25:40
And that is what will make them feel like their contribution will matter.
25:44
But if we erase the contribution of their community,
25:49
in the school books, what happens is they're just going to think that,
25:53
you know, they can take for granted
25:54
that things will be done for them and they can just watch.
25:57
Yeah, yeah.
25:58
So I think it's just giving them a better sense of belonging and responsibility.
26:03
Yeah. It it relates very closely.
26:06
We had another question from the audience from Edwin and he was saying, hi, Amy.
26:10
As an IB and graduate, what's one thing you think schools are doing
26:13
that's not adding value in preparing students for tomorrow's World?
26:16
And it sounds like we're kind of leaning into this now already.
26:19
Yeah. What did teachers are not doing?
26:22
Sure.
26:23
I guess the IB education as a as a system.
26:25
I mean, you're mentioning
26:27
we aim to have this global perspective.
26:30
We aim to have this, you know, think globally, act locally sort of approach.
26:35
And yet, just as you mentioned, if students don't see themselves
26:38
represented in the curriculum or something like this, this can be a real barrier.
26:41
Yeah.
26:42
Do you feel that's kind of the main thing that maybe the IB needs to do
26:46
or allow space for, or where do we see that kind of developing?
26:50
Thanks, John.
26:50
I think, one thing that IB can do
26:54
is really use the fact that there are a universal platform,
26:58
to connect people.
27:00
And I think that will just heal the world
27:03
from so many things right now.
27:06
I mean,
27:08
the true Ubuntu.
27:09
Right?
27:10
Like, if we recognize that, like we are all dependent upon everyone, right?
27:14
Because we are absolutely, we're all dependent on each others.
27:19
And if you know,
27:22
I remember
27:23
back in high school, we had some, kids from Canada
27:27
coming to visit, and we had such a great experience with them.
27:32
And I remember asking them I was like, okay,
27:35
tell me the truth to the girl who was staying with me.
27:38
I ask her, Michelle, she would probably listen.
27:42
Hi Michelle.
27:45
Yeah, she's a huge fashion icon now.
27:48
And so, I remember asking her, like, what did you think about it before coming?
27:53
What did you think about Africa?
27:55
And she said, oh, nothing special.
27:56
I was like, Michelle, just tell me.
27:58
And she's like, okay.
28:00
I thought, oh my God, they're buildings.
28:03
And I’m like, really?
28:07
She was honest enough to say it, but yeah, you know, what
28:11
I insist on the importance of talking about
28:14
the diversity of human kind of, of the world itself
28:19
is because it's, you know, people deserve to know
28:22
and it only asset their culture and their well-being
28:25
because then they know what world they live in.
28:28
But if we want to, reduce Africa
28:31
to being one big country with one language,
28:35
when in fact there are thousands and thousands of languages
28:39
spoken here, and it's sent on
28:41
such a different latitudes, you know, and,
28:46
it's a huge continent.
28:48
And I feel like what IB teachers could do is really to integrate,
28:53
the history, the geography, and,
28:57
Africa alone. You know, in, in the books,
29:01
yeah, yeah, African authors and just talk about it and value
29:06
more this continent which has given so much to the world in many aspects.
29:11
But if, if we're able to, you know, to, to
29:15
to talk about Africa in a way that's really relevant instead of always
29:20
finding out about it in in the news
29:22
where information is sensational and
29:26
you know, where it's going to be about the next famine,
29:30
and then obviously people get scared of the continent,
29:33
when in fact there's so many, opportunities to work together.
29:37
If only people know.
29:39
Yeah, yeah, you can see how easily a student or
29:42
someone can just kind of get tunnel vision into their contexts wherever they are.
29:46
And therefore
29:46
the only thing they see are those sort of moments
29:48
that come up on the news feed or something else.
29:51
And so you get this very limited understanding of what's going on,
29:55
not just, I guess, next door, but throughout the world.
29:58
And as we are aiming to develop international mindedness,
30:00
we're aiming to develop, you know, citizens who are global, right?
30:04
You can't be a global citizen with a narrow view of what Africa is.
30:08
I mean, when you, you know, you come in, you go, oh, there's there's buildings.
30:11
There's electricity, there's things that you can go.
30:15
Yeah.
30:16
And you know, just like Africa was erased.
30:20
I don't like to use this word because it might sound hard, but
30:24
I feel like African history culture was a little bit
30:26
erased from the educational system.
30:30
And if you're like, you only learn about Africa in Africa, I feel like,
30:35
that's just something we need
30:37
to address in a very nice way.
30:41
Because it's in the interest of everyone
30:43
to just know about the beautiful world
30:47
we live in and everything we can share, we can do together.
30:50
If only we know about each others.
30:52
And I'm talking about Africa, but not only Africa.
30:55
Many people think America is just New York
30:59
and L.A., you know what I mean?
31:01
And it's so much more than that, right?
31:03
I could say the same thing about Asia.
31:06
And, so we just need to rethink the way we teach the world to students.
31:11
Yeah.
31:11
No, I definitely agree.
31:13
That resonates a lot.
31:15
A previous job that I had at Kognity I was working on,
31:19
kind of developing the resources.
31:20
And one thing that's really important when you're thinking about a, a resource
31:26
that is going to be used all over the world is obviously
31:29
you want to have case studies that are coming from everywhere.
31:33
And it's not just about how many case studies
31:36
do you have from each place, it's
31:39
what representation are you giving from each place?
31:42
Are you making the case study in Africa about famine,
31:46
or are you doing something about human flourishing
31:49
and something that is then excelling in that place?
31:52
If you're only examples that you're sharing in a global context
31:55
or negative about some places, positive about other places, like
32:00
there's not that many negative case studies around Sweden in most textbooks,
32:05
it's generally it's an easy country to be like, oh, there is, here
32:08
are some few great things that they're doing and you just move on,
32:12
where are we treating other places the same way.
32:15
I think is a really important thing, where it's not just about
32:19
we've covered the global context,
32:21
but what are you covering in each place that sets that narrative. Right.
32:26
And what you just said inspired me something,
32:30
I never learned about Sweden.
32:31
Right?
32:32
But I think obviously we can't learn about
32:35
all the countries, but there is a discourse TOK
32:39
the theory of knowledge, like maybe we should add culture to it
32:43
and, you know, just go from one culture to the next
32:46
and that way we can do some philosophy, you know,
32:53
check to see things that are taught.
32:55
I mean, try to understand what's behind
32:57
everything as TOK teachers, but,
33:01
definitely adding culture to it would be great.
33:04
Would be great. What's beautiful about that.
33:06
You know, I love TOK
33:07
I often tell my students, I'm just like,
33:09
this is the most important course you're going to do. Yeah.
33:11
And I say that as a biology teacher.
33:12
So there's a little bit of a twinge of like, oh, no, but
33:15
just that idea of like, how do my positioned as a knower?
33:18
Yeah.
33:19
What's her knowledge am I receiving?
33:21
And am I accepting that knowledge is truth?
33:24
And how does my upbringing impact the way that I see this?
33:27
And so I like the way that it's framed in the sense of like,
33:30
I could approach new cultures and I could learn new things about them
33:33
when I understand my own position and think about that critically.
33:36
Yeah. I like that.
33:37
But I when what I'm hearing here and what I'm actually very interested in
33:41
exploring is this idea of like, how educators can really champion equity.
33:46
Yeah.
33:47
Right? Yeah.
33:48
Because it's not just access, not just outcomes, but like, how do we
33:52
how do we really champion that equity?
33:54
And I know you've you've got many different areas
33:56
of expertise, many different areas that you've kind of been in.
33:58
But maybe are there some practical tips or things that you would say
34:01
to educators to just go, here's how we kind of bring out that equity?
34:04
I think the best way to bring out that equity, John,
34:08
I don't know if
34:09
it's the best, but I think one of the best ways
34:12
is, is really, to value diversity.
34:17
And, value the potential
34:22
that each student has to learn and just,
34:27
try to see the interests where they are.
34:29
Don't stretch too far.
34:31
I mean, you know, we don't need to stretch too far,
34:33
but we can at least build equity based on what we already have
34:38
and try to value that.
34:41
Again, when you mention equity, like, do you want,
34:45
equity in the sense of valuing
34:49
or equity in the sense of achieving equity itself, like social equity.
34:54
I hadn't thought that far.
34:56
What what would be the difference, I guess.
34:58
What do you think?
34:59
Well, you know, I feel like we live in a world
35:02
where there's not enough equity, in the sense of social equity itself.
35:07
Like we.
35:09
And that's where the creativity, activity, service
35:11
really comes in as give opportunities to other with what you have.
35:16
How can you help others?
35:18
And then we go towards a society that he's more equitable, you know,
35:22
and equity in terms of giving
35:25
more value to the curriculum itself. And
35:30
to me that is really by
35:32
integrating diversity.
35:36
So I think we've talked about a lot of really great topics, and I'd love
35:39
to dive a little bit more into the work that you're actually doing right now.
35:43
And in this, I think a few themes that have
35:45
come up a lot is this journey in civic leadership.
35:49
You've done a lot of work on female empowerment,
35:52
and a lot of the work that you're doing is shaping there.
35:54
And a lot of that is also really deeply rooted
35:57
in an African context, which we've also been talking about.
36:00
How do you feel like your sense of identity is, I guess, one,
36:06
coming from this context and two shaping the work that you're doing now?
36:10
Well, you know, I am a taurus.
36:13
So as a taurus, I,
36:16
I like to
36:17
just have big ideas and go for them.
36:21
And, one of the, most defining,
36:26
moments in my career was really when I organized
36:29
an international conference in education in Paris,
36:32
and it was done at one of the biggest places,
36:36
to host a conference in France, in Paris.
36:41
And I remember standing there and saying to myself,
36:45
are you really doing this?
36:49
All of encouraging thoughts right before this.
36:52
I said to I thought, oh, he's going, I, you my like I was saying that,
36:56
24 hours before the event, I was like, what if it goes wrong?
37:00
And, obviously
37:03
people came, we had many people join.
37:06
We had several heads of universities join, and they were all there to speak and
37:13
again, when I was talking about
37:15
being a citizen of the world in my speech,
37:19
that's really when you're like,
37:20
thank you, IB.
37:22
Because you know, what would give,
37:27
a young woman from Senegal
37:29
the courage to do a audacity to do something
37:32
that big in a country that's not hers necessarily,
37:37
and bring together people from all parts of the world.
37:41
And then you're like, okay, my identity.
37:44
What is it?
37:45
Is it I'm an African citizen.
37:48
I'm a global citizen. But what is it really?
37:51
And I think it goes beyond just belonging to a country.
37:56
It goes beyond being a woman.
37:59
It goes beyond being part of a minority,
38:02
eventually. It's just about being a human being.
38:06
It’s just being human and being able to connect with people
38:10
no matter where they're from, just being able to connect because
38:14
we pretty much react the same way to everything.
38:17
We all get scared.
38:20
We we all get scared.
38:22
We all get, fearful of things we don't know.
38:27
But at the end of the day, we're all hopeful.
38:30
And what connects people?
38:31
What brings you to, be part of a
38:35
an event which I am organizing without knowing you is the hope
38:40
that human can build things together for the better.
38:44
And so
38:46
I think that's how my work shaped my identity, is just giving me
38:50
a sense of belonging.
38:51
Doesn't matter where I go in the world, I feel at home.
38:55
Because I know that I can relate
38:58
and I can, speak to people and they will understand me.
39:03
Because as humans, we connect. That's what we do.
39:06
And so I wasn't scared to go interview the Dalai Lama at his place.
39:11
I was scared to go there.
39:12
Once I found out they was kilometers up,
39:18
I worried.
39:18
And, on the mountains and,
39:22
Yeah, I get scared of little things, like heights.
39:25
But I never get scared of speaking to a human being.
39:28
Working with a human being.
39:29
Because at the end of the day, we're all humans.
39:32
As you're speaking just now, I was thinking exactly that
39:35
because in your speech
39:35
you mentioned about, you know, going up to see the Dalai Lama
39:38
and he said, oh, you must have been scared. Yeah.
39:40
And then the response to it, correct me if I'm wrong.
39:42
It was something along the lines of,
39:43
imagine if that fear had kept you from from meeting here.
39:46
Exactly, exactly.
39:48
And what you started with just that.
39:49
It really caught me off guard when you said, oh, I'm here doing this thing.
39:53
Thank you, IB.
39:54
Yeah.
39:54
And I think of so many of my students and students
39:58
that I work with who are just like, they're terrified of the IB.
40:01
Yeah.
40:02
You look at it, it's like, oh, this is such a stressful, hard thing.
40:05
I'm not going to be I'll do it.
40:06
And then look at exams and the rarely is it as present as an opportunity.
40:11
It's more of a this is a fearful thing that I'm not sure I'm ready to do.
40:15
But if I connect those two things that you just said, it's like
40:18
you can't be afraid of the opportunities that are coming your way, right?
40:22
Fear’s there, you know, embrace it, but don't let it define
40:25
the next step you take.
40:26
And dive into that, because you might get to a position
40:29
where you recognize, I am a global citizen because of the things
40:32
that I've experienced and the stuff that I've come to do.
40:34
Right, I love what you're just saying there.
40:36
Thank you.
40:38
And, you know, I understand your students.
40:40
I was there and, I was scared too, at some point,
40:43
because it sounds so big to know you're doing something international that's done
40:48
by other students in other countries, and you're all doing at the same time.
40:52
But just that right there makes you feel you're part of something big.
40:57
And I think that's where
40:59
if I could turn back, in time, I would just go back in time.
41:02
I would say, you know, focus on that,
41:06
what that can represent for you, for your family,
41:10
for your country, whatever, to know that you're a part of something big.
41:14
Yeah.
41:14
You know, and yeah, that can just motivate you to do even better.
41:18
There was a great speach yesterday at that closing.
41:22
Ruth, with Tina. Yes.
41:25
And in hers, she said,
41:27
I wanted to say to the IB, thank you for complicating my world.
41:32
Right?
41:32
Yeah.
41:33
And I just thought that's a wonderful way of looking at this.
41:36
Yeah.
41:36
And you can see it embodied in, you know, someone like yourself, the IB Global
41:40
citizen, creating great opportunities, giving back to where you came from.
41:43
I think you're a hugely inspirational person, Amy.
41:46
I really, really appreciate getting to chat with you.
41:47
Thank you so much.
41:49
I'm honored to be here. Yeah.
41:52
And so one day you have to come to Senegal.
41:55
Okay.
41:55
You know, I'm organizing a conference on education,
41:58
and so I would love to have you guys and just come and you know, be a part of it.
42:01
Yeah. No, we would jump for that opportunity.
42:03
That would be wonderful.
42:05
All right. Thank you so much. It's been such an honor.
42:08
Really, really has, Amy. Thanks for taking the time.
42:10
Yeah.
42:11
Thank you for having me.
42:12
All right. Thanks.
42:14
IBM flagged as a Kognity podcast hosted by John Patton
42:18
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42:20
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42:24
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42:30
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42:32
and support each other in teaching with confidence, creativity and joy.
42:36
See you next time.