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Want to Grow Girls Hockey? Start Here. | Kristen Sagaert (USA Hockey) · 2 Many Men On The Mic

• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you wouldn't know it, but it is March in St.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: Louis.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, I am wearing a winter hat because this morning I woke up with snow.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: Last week it was 80 degrees, but uh this is part of the fun of uh spring in St.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: Louis, and I think all over the country because we got some tornadoes yesterday.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: I talked to some East Coast people today that were preparing for the tornadoes, and so uh uh chaos weather-wise, but uh I had to dig out my winter hat again for this episode.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you know the the old saying here if you're tired of the weather, wait a minute, it'll change on you.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, I I I mean it was 90 degrees, I think Thursday, Wednesday.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_04: I I mean, and uh even Saturday.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_04: I mean Saturday might have been the best.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, Saturday, if every day was like Saturday, couldn't afford to live here.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it was what 68 degrees, sunny, no wind, beautiful sky, and uh I did yard work.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_04: You were up in Chicago, you were up in Chicago.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: I was I was on the road doing my drive up uh 55 north north.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I wish I could tell you it was different, but it was overcast and looked like the way it usually does, uh headed up to Chicago.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm glad you got to enjoy the sun.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_04: A little bit of yard work, it was good, you know.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_04: Uh you know, talk a little bit about that trip to Chicago.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_04: I think uh you got a chance to see your boy playing the all-star game for Central States.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: But aside from me, it was really Central States All-Star weekend, but it was 14U, 16, or 14, 15, 16, and 18U All-Star teams for the Central States Development Hockey League, which is a youth hockey league tier two run out of Chicago.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, my son just happened to be playing in one of them, but there were uh a lot of good-looking kids.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I have some pictures, I have some videos, and uh, we'll be updating those and putting those out to the site probably tomorrow.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: More pictures than websites, because one of the things I noticed is that I stand a little too far away from uh my interviewees, or maybe they stand too far away from me.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: If you look at it on camera, we look a little bit too spaced out, so we've got to get a little bit closer in some of those video feeds.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_04: Alt toys, dude.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_04: Altoys.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: Altoys, that's it.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: But at a minimum, check out the two mini men on my Instagram, uh, our website, uh, all of our handles, and you'll see those coming up.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: But uh lots of well-dressed young men in suits coming into the arena.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, a few of them coming out, but a few costs and changes.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_04: Well, thanks again to the Central States as well.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_04: They uh they posted our logo and little commercial on the big jumbotron in between uh scrapes and uh or during the scrapes in between periods.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um hopefully, you know, everyone recognizes that we're out here trying to grow this game, um, bring uh bring value not only to the players and the parents, but also the coaches.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_04: And we're gonna talk a little bit about the game today with the special guest from USA Hockey, hence my USA hockey jersey.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_04: By the way, over the weekend, we're talking about how Saturday was a great day here in St.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_04: Louis.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_04: It was a great day for USA hockey as our Para Olympians won gold.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_04: We're three for three.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, we won as Para Olympians against Canada.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_04: We won as the men's team against Canada, and then most importantly, especially for our guest here today from USA Hockey, we're bringing on Kristen Sager.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_04: The women went gold uh against Canada.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_04: And so we're bringing on Kristen Sager.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_04: She is uh director of girls' hockey.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um, she supports our players, our coaches, our different hockey directors uh nationwide.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um, she was general manager for U.S.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_04: under 18's women's national team in 2020, 21, 22, 23, 26.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_04: So some of these women that won this goal, um, she was the general manager for their team, absolutely.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_04: So she's got great connections with those.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, on top of that, um, she was in the 2013 women's world university team where she won a silver medal as head coach uh of the 2020 youth Olympic Games, 3v3 mixed uh team, and is a boys' high school state championship in Cheyenne Mountain High School.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_04: So she's also uh she she kind of trumps us there on the high school coaching.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_04: So let's uh let's bring in Kristen Sager uh from USA Hockey and talk a little bit about the development of the of the girls and women's game.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_04: Kristen, thank you for joining us today.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_04: How are you today?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing well.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for having me.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_03: That was quite the intro that Jared just gave.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, there were many accolades along the way.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: I have to ask some of these girls that just won goal and just uh reached the pinnacle.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: Uh boy, that's gonna make me proud.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: But then I have to wonder, do you get a goal too, since you've been a part of their journey, or how does that work?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's been amazing.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've had a lot of milestones with the you know, the hockey hat trick of three gold medals for our team being being part of the process is rewarding.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the you know, no, I don't get a gold medal.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Athletes are the only ones who get Olympic medals, and even our staff on site just get to admire them.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that for us, it's just a testament to our programming and our structure that we have, that these amazing athletes have been able to be a part of our program, not only at the under 18 level, but now at the Olympic level.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's really cool.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we had a local flavor there, Joy Dunn.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, she was part of the team.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_04: In fact, our friend Rachel Bartlett, who coaches uh here in St.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_04: Louis, she coached her sister Ginsay and Joy.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and they're both at Ohio State, or Ginsey was at Ohio State.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_04: Joy is now there.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so super proud of that.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_04: Uh that fact.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_04: But tell us a little bit, you know, our experience with the girls' game, I think, has has um grown here in the last couple of years as Drew and I um have been coaching at the high school ranks, and we've had girls join our high school team.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um, what we have seen, or at least my personal experience, is girls tend to get into hockey if mom or dad played hockey or had it had exposure to it.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um and now we're seeing that girls just want to play here in St.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_04: Louis.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_04: Tell us a little bit about your journey.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_04: How did you get into the sport?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_04: How did you get involved with USA hockey?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_04: We we'd love to set that as our as our starting point here as we have the conversation tonight.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I grew up in Minnesota uh before my family moved to Arizona.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I got to see both sides of hockey, right?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Learning to skate at a young age, um, you know, being able to skate out on the pond, but really not entering competitive or team hockey until the tenure age level.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, at one point my my parents had kind of pushed me to figure skating, and I think it was a 180.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Both my mom and my dad played ice hockey in Minnesota, and I it did work.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, no, I want to I want to play hockey.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up playing hockey and probably unique in the fact that my older brother does not play hockey, right?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like completely shocking.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: I know, right?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Less shocking nowadays, like you said, girls are playing hockey because girls play hockey, but uh my brother tried it, wasn't a fan of the equipment.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I'm the only hockey player of the two of us.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think now that he's older, there's a little bit of regret there that he didn't have a good head.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it's been good.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, moving to Arizona really showed, you know, we were lucky that the Arizona Ice Den was a brand new ice rank, the practice facility for the former for the coyotes, and was right down the road.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that accessibility made it really easy to be able to go to the rank, and especially in late middle school, high school when going to public skate was cool and got to play with my friends.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that was that was really how I fell in love with hockey.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was a I was a big swimmer.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that was my first primary competitive sport.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but my love for hockey was really what won me out on the team side and played in college and then after college started coaching, right?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: What do you when you when you get done playing and you still want to be involved, you either coach or ref.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: I I did both.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I couldn't decide, I wanted to stay involved.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how I got connected to USA hockey by coaching at the ACHA level with the University of Colorado Boulder.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, I see your CSU Rams winter hat.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_04: Your daughter goes to Boulder.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: My daughter goes to Boulder and my son goes to CSU, but well played.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's fair.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, I don't think kids are meant to go to either both schools, so I'm definitely a Buffalo fan.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: So well, what do you think has been uh two or three of the biggest factors in the growth of girls, women's hockey, would you say here these last five to ten years?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: Because Jared and I are seeing them out on the ice now, which is so great, and they're so fun to coach.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: But uh that's a real big area of growth for the game right now.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think are the two, three biggest contributors to that?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's absolutely exploded over the last decade.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we've had tremendous growth at both the youth girls level and the women's level, and it starts with the Olympic set success and international exposure.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're lucky every four years we have the Olympics.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: So people who don't know about hockey, aren't a hockey family, don't have a friend or a sibling that play hockey, get exposed to the sport.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And normally in a grandiose fashion, right?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: The women won in 2018 with a shootout, and then again, we just won with a beautiful overtime goal by Megan Keller, and we like to make it exciting during the Olympics, which really helps a lot of cool.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_04: We gotta get we gotta get you know, we we like to get we like to celebrate on this show, so it was awesome.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was amazing.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: We we loved all of it.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: We make it an exciting fashion.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: So visibility is huge.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: The Women's Professional League and the growth of women's collegiate hockey.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've got to get a shot give a shout out to the PWHL.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they've had over a million fans in their first 14 months.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, now we're in year three, they're looking fantastic and looking to expand even more.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, that's made it more visible than a decade ago.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so true that if you can see it, you can do it where there's a clear pathway, the kids want to stay, but more importantly, parents are willing to spend money on sports and activities where they can see what that progression or pathway would be for their kid.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that exists now.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's over 200 college opportunities for girls and women to play hockey.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: So those are two big factors.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, really the third one for me is grassroots investment.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the amount that clubs are putting in to make sure that girls' hockey, girls' hockey programs and teams are you know at the forefront of their growth initiatives is really big, right?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: We've we've pushed try hockey for free, girls only learn to play, um, late entry girls only programs.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Our women's hockey advisory committee with the NHL has been doing some very successful pilot programs with how do we get players into the game at 12, 13, 14?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: We know the NHL has been fantastic at getting girls and boys into the sport at six, seven, eight.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but what would it look like on the girls side if we had a late entry learn to play program?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we've piloted that in a few markets, and it's been it's been great.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's really a testament.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: All these markets that were non-traditional, they're all past that 10-year mark, if not 20-year mark, of having hockey in Florida and Dallas and formerly Arizona, right?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: California, Anaheim, their girls' program has like, I can't even count the number of teams they have anymore because they have like six to eight teams at every age level for girls.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: And 10 years ago, 15 years ago ago, it was like three teams total.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that infrastructure is huge for the growth.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_04: We've seen the growth here in St.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_04: Louis.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we now have four highly competitive girls-only programs, and and the co-ed level, you know, you know, when we look at that below 12U, below 13U.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I I mean, we we're seeing coach, we're seeing teams with you know 20, 30 percent of the roster is girls.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's super exciting.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_04: I and I think that that the rivalry series, too, where um we had them come to St.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_04: Louis, the Canadian and the uh US women's play that rivalry series.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it goes to that if you can see somebody who looks like you doing something that's really, really fun, um, it makes you want to do it.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_04: And uh I think that you know we just have to continue to foster that as at both a coach, a parent, um, and just you know, lovers of the game.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um, let's talk a little bit about that though, as we talk about like you know, from a leadership standpoint, you know, there's roughly 7% of coaches right now in hockey are women.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_04: I think that that's at all levels.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um at the youth level, I think it's you know, under 40%, and probably check my numbers.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but what are two or three tangible changes at the youth organization level that groups can do to help increase um female participation as coaches?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_04: You were a natural fit because you played and you love the game, and and I and you know, we're both coaches, so we understand the desire to stay involved and also to teach.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but is it simply just get more girls, continue to get more girls on ice, and we're naturally going to see more girls rise in the coaching ranks?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_04: Or is there something more?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_04: Because I, you know, I even with the USA hockey, I mean, they had a man male head coach, which is great.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it doesn't matter, but it what what are some things that can help grow that in the coaching ranks for girls and women?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's definitely our next focus area is coaches and officiating and how many females we have in those roles.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we you can't we can't just expect that if we have more players, we're gonna have more coaches.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's an interesting infrastructure, whether it's these structural barriers, recruiting habits, different things that like really don't just automatically result in women coming back to coach.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, it's kind of similar to when women apply to jobs or don't apply to jobs.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: They have to be overqualified for the job and they don't think they're qualified to be an eight you coach.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we know that being an eight you coach is a lot about getting those kids to have the experience and have fun, and it's not about knowing the highest level intricacies and in and outs of the game.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in fact, it's meant to be more like a playground, and you're just kind of out there with safety structure and making sure that they enjoy it.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so for us, you we have to ask.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: You have to directly ask women to be coaches.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I always say specifically the moms of the kids on your team.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: But then how what infrastructure do you have to support that if your moms don't actually know how to skate?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe your dads don't know how to skate.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: I always say more parent coaches is great, but we always rely on the coaches who who can skate.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so then they are coaching year after year after year.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's one of them, and they have two kids that can't coach both teams.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: So we, you know, I promote having learn to skate and learn to play for your parents that's just offered as free for part of your programming.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we had a team in town, they had a parent child skate two seasons ago, and they realized all the moms were in the stands, and all the dads except for one mom were on the ice playing.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And the moms in the stand were like, wait, what are we doing?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And they asked, how do we we want to play?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we set up a learn to play and learn to skate for them.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: And by the next year, every single mom that was in the stands was on the ice.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then I told their hockey director to actively ask them to coach their teams, right?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like now you have them in skates, reel them in, like, right?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: But we do have to ask.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's um it's there's studies that show when women are asked directly that the participation rate goes up.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're less likely to self-nominate if people ask people to raise their hand.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Women are like less likely to just raise their hand to say that they'll coach.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, when you think about parenting, I always feel that we in this day and age where we have a lot of two working household parents, like how do we create flexibility for them if they have younger kids?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Can another parent volunteer to watch their little one while they're on the ice coaching, right?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because maybe they have a seven-year-old, you want them to coach eight you, but they also have a three-year-old.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, or they won't be able to come to the rink if that other little kid doesn't have, you know, childcare or someone to watch that little one.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, what can you do to just be aware of those barriers, have those conversations, be a be aware of being flexible?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I also think you're not wrong, like players become coaches.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: How do we make that pathway easier?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: How do we make sure that we have younger players, you know, 19U, 16U high school kids on the ice helping out with our 10 us and our 12Us, right?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And create a pathway for that.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're a 16U, you help with 10U's.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: When you're a 19U, you help with the 12U's.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a college player, you get to be an assistant coach, right?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's more experienced people, they get to be head coaches or directors.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we kind of have this pathway that our players see like, oh, when I was 10, these kids were on the ice.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: So when I'm that age, I want to be on the ice coaching.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then we structure that that it's actually something that they have skills in because they've been out on the ice coaching in some capacity before we were even asking if they want to coach.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we're kind of overcoming that barrier ahead of time.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: What I'm hearing you say is modeling uh not only for getting kids interested, but modeling just through the experience and having some of those coaches come back in and say, Oh, I'm being on a team when I was 10, and having somebody help out and coach, and that's what I could look like in nine years from now.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's great stuff.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: We probably need to uh take a quick play in this period.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_04: Well, if you've got some time to spend with us here, Kristen, we're gonna take a quick break, pay a bill, and uh we'll come back.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_04: We've got a lot of great topics and questions, and and um you know, thanks so much again for joining us here, and we'll be right back.
• 19:13
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• 20:30
  SPEAKER_04: And be sure to download, follow, and rate the podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast, or directly on our website, too many menonthemic.com.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_04: Those small things from you help us keep delivering new guests, downloadable coaching content, and more from the rink.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_04: All right, back to the show.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: We are back talking girls hockey with Kristen from USA Hockey, talking about growing the game of girls hockey.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: Everything from getting girls interested in hockey, but also growing the coaching.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: Kristen, thanks so much for being with us.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: We've been talking a little bit about player, but also coaching.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, one of the things we've been told by women coaches is that coaching girls can be different and communicate.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: So this was a uh this was a great quote.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh if girls feel good, they play good, while boys need to play good to feel good.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: Does that resonate with you?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, that statement does resonate with a lot of the research out there.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's always an interesting statement because I do feel that boys and girls are such a spectrum of how they how they act, how they interpret the world, how they're raised.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Some of it's, you know, biological, some of it's, you know, social and environmental.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we do know that girls on average tend to, you know, connect performance to the relationship and the environment more than boys do.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: So those are such important things that we want to make sure our coaches are looking at is how do we Create a positive environment, but it's not something different than we would say to coaches of boys' hockey or co-ed hockey, of that environment is so important for retention.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but a lot of times girls need to feel confident before they're gonna risk failure, especially in front of their teammates or in front of others.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: You both coach high school age girls, so post-puberty.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, that's an interesting age where they really are aware of their social surroundings and it does impact how they're gonna act or what type of risk they'll take or what they're gonna do.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Also being called out by coaches can be awkward for girls at that age, and that's a little bit different, right?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we want to make sure it's a safe environment where they feel that they don't need to hold back, where they can try new skills, uh things like that.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: But if they don't feel safe, they're not gonna want to do those things.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: And we know the fun research has like equates that if they don't want to try new things, if they don't want to set new goals, if they don't have a good relationship with their coach or their teammates, it's not fun.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we know they're not gonna come back if they're not having fun.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so for us, it really comes back to that like they yes, they need to feel good about the environment to help them try new things and do different things.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I wouldn't say that, you know, on the boys' side, those are all super important factors for us too.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I there is a little bit of you know, connection first, correction second with our girls that we just have to be aware of at this age level, especially uh post-puberty.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's it's the connection versus correction.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_04: I I think that's that's true for boys too.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we all grew up in an age where it was a little bit different, the relationship between coaches, especially as you got into high school and you got a little older.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_04: I think it was a little bit we we call it old school today, but some of it was just plain mean.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um, no other way to put it.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_04: Uh we we've got three really, really talented girls that are playing on our high school team right now.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_04: And and I find myself sometimes forgetting like it doesn't even, I just see them as hockey players.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and that's a testament, I think, to their their skill and their effort and how much they love to compete and have fun.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_04: But for coaches to kind of remove that, whether you want to call it gender biased or scene like that's a girl hockey player or is a boy hockey player, what are some things, especially a male coach, you know, that that we should be kind of training ourselves to um to do, you know, and be better in our communication style, um, not just with girls, but just in general.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, from your vantage point and perspective.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, this is a show for coaches as well, all coaches.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'm interested to hear what your feedback and insight would be on that.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's always an interesting thing that comes up because the word boys in hockey feel like kind of just feels like it's a word that we use.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's become a all right, boys, or let's go instead of let's go team.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: We use the word boys kind of interchangeably, and kids have learned that that's the case.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it's important you ask, what can we do?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's talk about the roles or behaviors instead of gender, instead of boys and girls line up for drills.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's let's have the team line up for drills.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you use collective and individual recognition instead of great job, girls, because now you're calling out girls, it's great job, every everybody.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Or I like the effort, Alex.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Use a specific kid's name if it's positive reinforcement.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I like how you talk about them just being hockey players.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, we spend a lot of time making these distinctions between our male and female athletes.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: When if you treat our female athletes like athletes, that's what they're gonna feel.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna feel confident as athletes.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're gonna feel that they're excelling without it's they're doing good because they're a girl, right?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because we're not making it about that.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're doing good because they're a good hockey player.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: And celebrating that effort and creativity and leadership and the process versus celebrating the boy versus girl gender dynamic.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it takes some effort.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think some of the language is just something we say, and if we say some of that stuff all the time, it's just what happens.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's kind of no different than you know, sarcasm doesn't sit well with a lot of kids if you don't have an established relationship.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: And even they say that kids, that their um their mental capacity to understand sarcasm isn't really developed like adults is.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so this to me is one of those things, it's just what do we, what are some of our habits and how can we adjust them as coaches, as adults talking to kids to make that environment something that is inclusive, right, and safe for everybody.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, those are just some ideas.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: I just think that it's it's pretty easy if you practice it to replace boys or girls with team, player, skater, specific names throughout throughout your practice.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I have a I have a funny story.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um when we were first starting the season and the girls were on the team, I found myself holding back a little bit with some of the some of the language I would use at times.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_04: Not that I'm a saint, not that it's terrible language.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and one of the girls looked at me and he goes, she says, Coach, my club coach is 10 times worse than you.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_04: And she just totally diffused the situation for me.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_04: And it really, that's where I started to like recognize that it's it's about coaching hockey players, you know, whether they're a boy or a girl.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_04: It it to me, it was, you know, she gave me this like almost like permission to like say, hey, chill out, coach, just coach me and let's have some fun.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I I love I thought that that was just now because it's like a not all the time, only at the refs.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_04: Edit that, we're gonna edit that.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Kristen, that's great insight.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_04: You shifting gears here to some of the organizational um hurdles.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_04: You know, here in St.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_04: Louis, I think as I mentioned, we've got four girls-only programs.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_04: One is a tier one, and then we have three tier two programs that are highly competitive.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_04: They're traveling a lot to play other girls-only teams, you know, whether it's in Chicago or Nashville or Indianapolis or Kansas City.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but what that does here is like not every girl can play on these girls-only teams.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_04: Just we just don't have the infrastructure here.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and they may want to as they get older.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_04: You know, several of our organizations have wanted to kind of reach out and create their own like girls-only team, but because of different, you know, birth year populations and what have you, there's some constraint there.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_04: And and so the question that I have for you, and this is a USA hockey question, as you're helping to um advise our different organizations and districts, is should we focus more on getting girls-only teams at 12U and older, or should we focus more on co-ed recruiting for 10U and younger?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, what seems to be more impactful?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_04: Where is the most success?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I would say having four girls-only teams is great, but it's it's clearly not enough because we have girls that aren't able to play on all those teams.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_04: So what you know, is it chicken or egg kind of what what should we be doing?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_04: And maybe the answer is yes, both.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, if it's a trick question, the answer is yes, both, right?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: If I get to pick both, it's both.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you want growth, you've got to focus on the six U, eight you, but if you want retention, you have to focus on the 12U and older ages, right?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like if there's not a pathway and those girls at that older age group say, Do I stay in hockey or switch to one of my other sports as I start to kind of narrow it down?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if there's not a team for them to play on, then they're gonna leave the sport.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: We made it really easy for them.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: We want to make that decision really hard for them so that they can stay.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: But if we don't have enough girls in the game, we don't have enough girls to create those teams when they're older.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that with the 12-year-old and older piece, that's a typical age where we see most girls transition to girls only anyway.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: But what we do see a lot of is this kind of death of recreational hockey, right?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's kind of gone away.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: We used to be required to play recreational hockey.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you played travel hockey, you also played on your rec team.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so that we had these monsters and that there were enough kids.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And when we were away playing our travel games, those kids got, you know, more, I said, but they still had games, but we also played all together, and that doesn't exist anymore, really.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: There is recreational hockey in a lot of places in the country, and there's places that have tier one, tier two, tier three, four, five, tier six, even in Massachusetts.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, right.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: And which is great.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that if you don't have a place for the, you know, the players that maybe can't make a tier two competitive travel team, then that's a place where you really have to look at your infrastructure and say, what can we create for kids to play locally against each other at a level that's appropriate below these travel teams?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we have some flexibility with our USA hockey rosters and birth years for teams that are not national bound, right?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can you can have a 19U team that has multiple birth years on it.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can have a rec roster, we have flex rosters.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know, we're strict at the national bound level, we won't deny that.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of good reasoning for that.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's definitely some flexibility there.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you just want to make sure that there's an opportunity and for them to stay in the game.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: But if you don't have enough kids, right?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about that.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have to grow at the younger age group.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it kind of seems like you might not have enough ability for every program to have a girls' team yet.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the case?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_04: So in in St.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_04: Louis, in Missouri Hockey Youth Division, we've got, I think, what is it, eight organizations, eight separate organizations that comprise, well, actually, more than that.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_04: It's like 13, 13 separate organizations.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_04: They all have co-ed and the traditional um, you know, boys, quote unquote, uh, teams.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_04: But we have some that are kind of right, they could they have enough girls to to ice a team that's at 13U, but not enough to ice a team at 14U.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, well, let us do the 13U because next year we'll have enough for the 14U.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, we've got a relationship with the folks here at the district level um and at Mohawk.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, but I just got to believe that this is a similar problem, is like trying to, you know, like you mentioned, create a destination for girls who are 6U, 8U, 10U to want to play and then stay in it because they know that, hey, we're gonna have an opportunity to play for the Rockets or we're gonna have an opportunity to play for the Kirkwood team.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, right now we literally have you know three, you know, tier two that are connected to um three of those 13 um you know organizations.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_04: And then we have our our Lady Blues, which has you know a team at every birth year from I believe 12U to 19U.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm we see it at high school, just about every single high school team that we're playing, and these are 13, 14, 15-year-olds, they have girls on, they have one, two, three, sometimes four girls on the team, and not all of them are playing club.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, gosh, you would wonder that you know, there's there's a solution there.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_04: So it sounds like we've got to I I sounds like we've got to get some more teams that then can model for the younger kids to have something to shoot for.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because at some point it tips over that you've got to create more teams, right?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's hard, it's not an easy transition, and you're kind of in that middle point where you have girls at the older age levels.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Are they able to play together yet?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, are you able to put together, you know, a roster for those players?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but again, you have to keep focusing on that younger age group and the growth at both the co-ed and the girls level, right?
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so St.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: Louis is a market that definitely has all these girls playing co-ed, co-ed through those six U, eight U, you know, time frames.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a good thing.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: And just keep keep making sure there's opportunities for the girls to see each other in those environments, whether it's a girls only weekend or a girls only chamboree, or the girls are together for a station.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the research says that that's helpful for the girls in that co-ed program, especially as they get older.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's no need for where you are all in your growth of hockey to like start that young, right?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's like start at that 12U 14U level and see what the best fit our high school is to continue to have opportunities and then kind of work your way down and up all at the same time.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's like kind of closing the gap.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Kristen, let's uh let's hear some of your favorite stories and moments.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: Playing and coaching in college for the world university games.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure some listeners out here would love to hear uh somebody who's reached the peak of their level in women's hockey.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: So do you have some stories you could share with our listening audience?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: I've been very fortunate.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: You if you'd asked me when I was in college playing, I would have this would not have been um on the list of things.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: I knew I kind of wanted to work in sports.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: I loved playing college hockey.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: I loved my experience at Connecticut College.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was definitely the right fit for me.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: Had an unbelievable time there and an unbelievable time with my teammates and my friends, right?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's what it all ends up being about, right?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: You've you meet lifelong friends, you get to be in college, like I got to also study abroad and play hockey and just do all those things.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, I went to the University of Colorado Boulder for law school and with all the intentions of being an attorney, I became an attorney at one point.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, here I am uh not being an attorney and working in sports.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say that's a dream job for many.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: And in that, I, as one of the very few female head coaches in the ACHA at the time, especially at the Division I level.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I, you know, I some of the USA hockey staff and I got to know each other.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: And um I was offered the opportunity to coach at two World University Games, which was unbelievable, right?
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: I got to be and I got some pretty unbelievable locations with uh Italy and Spain.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, can't really go wrong with when you get to go uh to other countries to go to those two amazing places.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I got to have Shelley Looney as my assistant coach talk about being like maybe we should switch roles.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: You are uh an Olympian, um, you are pretty amazing.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you're also very intimidating and mature, and I'm pretty new to this, and I was pretty new to it at this age at that age.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: I have a lot of things I think I would have taught that coach at that time.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I got to you know, coach with Shelly, and it was it was just amazing.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: And we won a medal when we were in Italy, and that was that was also fantastic, but nothing was as cool as the youth Olympic Games.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, so in the even really cool story in 2020 before COVID, I got to coach our, I got to be the general manager of our U18 team, and we won a gold medal.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: Loudest U18 team I'd had up to date.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: They were singing, they were singing frozen in the hallway before we were gonna go on the ice um for overtime against Canada.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: And Canada's at the other end of the hallway.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew in that moment that we were we had a really good chance.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: We had a kid in the box, and you normally go into overtime with a kid in the box being very nervous that can we get out of this?
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: And they are singing at the top of their lungs.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, all right, they think we can do this, we can do this.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we did, we won that game, and it was unbelievable.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I go then to Switzerland and I'm I have this roster of mixed country players, not all whom speak English, who don't know each other, who have not been at different national camps and different things together, who are very quiet, right?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: Very, very quiet.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have not even a week to get this group to know each other, play together, you know, really just feel like they can trust each other, right?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's three on three.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: You want them to just have some jam and have some fun.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we played name tag, where you actually have to say the person's name before you can take tag them.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: Cotton Eye Joe dance was their warm-up, that was their choice.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had to like mentally switch 180 from like, all right, yeah, like everything's loud and bubbly, and be like, okay, I gotta get these kids talking.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: I have to also bring myself down a level because they're not ready for that, they don't know me yet.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that was it was so cool.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: They play music during the game.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: You've got two cross-seyed three-on-three games on Olympic sheet going on at the same time.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the environment was nuts, absolutely nuts.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: They packed the stands in Lausanne.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we it was just amazing.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we lost to a team who got to be called the Golden Stars.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Advantaged to team black the whole time.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um but we had a great time.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: But that was probably the most challenging but rewarding experience.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we still, like one of those players was on the Finnish Olympic team, um, the goalie, and you know, that group still stays in touch on WhatsApp, and just a really cool, totally different experience than what we're probably all used to as coaches, where we have a lot of time with them before a championship or something.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_04: So, what I'm hearing is is that we've just got to have Kristen come run our practices and that's amazing to be in places like Lazanne and in Italy like that to play to play us to play a sport and have fun.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, I I can't imagine um there's much better feeling than when you see these kids out there with smiles on their face and winning those hockey games and the fact that they were singing the frozen song with Canada down the hallway.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_04: That in fact, we may we may have to do that next time we play Clayton.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_04: I'll let you leave.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: Last minute of play in this period.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_04: Well, Kristen, you have time you have time for one more segment.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_04: We're gonna talk a little, we're gonna look a little uh we're gonna get a little nerdy.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_04: Drill draw.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, drill draw, and maybe talk a little bit.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_04: I do want to touch on the coaching her program that I know USA hockey is is connected with, and then just get your opinion a little bit on that transition to girls-only hockey.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but if you've got a little bit of time, we'll we'll finish up with some some hockey nerd uh well.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_04: I'm my favorite part of the show.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_04: We get to do some drop some drills, and then that's when we get to steal some great ideas.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_04: But this has been awesome so far.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_04: And if you can give us another 20 minutes or so, we'll uh we'll be back after a quick ad read.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_03: Just because the winter weather is coming to an end doesn't mean the hockey stops.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: So sign up for your team for the Big Bear Tournaments for one spring 2026 events, starting April 24th through May 15th.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_03: Join at any of the prime spring locations, which include Chicago, Ann Arbor, Detroit, Washington, D.C., and Lake Tahoe.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: Exact dates and full details can be found at Bigbear Tournaments.com.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: As always, tell them Too Many Men on the Mike segment to receive exclusive savings.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's Bigbear Tournaments.com.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: And don't forget to sell them Too Many Men on the Mickey.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_04: And we're back here with Too Many Men on the Mike, joined by Kristen Sagert of USA Hockey.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_04: And Kristen and Drew and I have been talking about all things uh uh related to growing the women's and girls game.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, Kristen, as we have kind of talked about some of the great experiences you've had and just some things that both from a USA hockey level and a grassroots level, we can be doing to um to grow hockey and grow girls and women's participation in hockey.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_04: You know, there is some uh education that has to go on with our coaches and and managers.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_04: And USA Hockey, I believe, has a partnership with an organization called Coaching Her.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_04: Would love to hear a little bit about that and how organizations and coaches and even parents can leverage that tool to help grow this game even more.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, coaching her is a really amazing resource that we've we've been working with to provide different content for our coaches.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh all of it lives in our continuing education platform and is available for continuing education credits for anyone who isn't with a hockey code.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um but really it's it's run by the Tucker Center out of the University of Minnesota, research-backed.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: They're heavily involved in research on girls and women in sports of all different types, and they've created these amazing modules and different resources, not only for coaches, but for associations, on how to um really make sure coaches understand what's unique about girls in sport, how to create environments for girls in sport, what keeps girls in the sport, um, and also how to support female coaches within that environment.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's something we're really excited about.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the probably most important modules for everyone is the one on puberty and what women go through and little girls as they go through puberty.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: What that looks like for them is it's completely different for girls than boys.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's probably the biggest point of their teaching that's been really helpful for a lot of our coaches.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: Kristen, I did that MOOC uh certification at the end of 2025.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and I thought it was great.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: I learned a lot of things in that process, and you hit the nail on the head right there with that part of the setting.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's great for uh certainly the male coach to be able to go through that continuing education and learn that.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_03: And uh after coaching girls on my own and with Coach Jair, but then going through that coaching model, uh, I think there's a lot that can be learned there.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, what a great initiative uh and great for coaches.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: And where's the best place for coaches outside of the, you know, their their continuing education module that they have to do?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_04: Is there resources or websites that we can go to kind of throughout the season and use some of these tools?
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_04: Is it just straight on USA Hockey?
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_04: Is there a place you can share for that?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, actually, we do monthly updates.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you coaching her provides us with different platforms and resources each month.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we update our USAhockey.com backslash girls hockey page with a coaching her tab.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so every month you'll see an updated topic from Coaching Her, a different highlighted module that you can access and just different teaching points for whether you're a parent, a coach, an association leader, or whatever role you may be in.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a cool feature that they've they've really built out all that content, not only for us, but for other people that they work with as well.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been fantastic.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_04: So USA hockey backslash coaching her.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Backslash girls hockey.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_04: Backslash girls hockey.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we will link that in uh on all of our social media and we'll link this in all the episodes.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_04: So that's awesome.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_04: My favorite part.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so this show is all about really.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_04: We started this show full transparency because we're coaches and we want to you know steal the best ideas from better coaches than us.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so part of that is is getting together with coaches like yourself, um, who have had great success, but also understand that it's all about having fun.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so we'd love if you could you know walk us through uh one of your favorite drills or one of your favorite games for practice.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_04: And there's a good chance it's gonna get run here in St.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_04: Louis on Friday at a rink rink uh at about four o'clock.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_04: So let me go ahead and uh pull this up on the screen.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: I have to say this was the hardest question because it'd be hard to pick just one drill.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, wait, I don't have a theme or a direction.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: You want me to just pick one?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: I have too many favorites and my cover that's very simple.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_04: You know, Jablonik and Pooch had some great ones.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_04: Jason had excellent ones.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_04: We actually got to name one last week with with the folks from Anchorage, Alaska.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_04: He had this drill, he's like, I don't even have a name for it.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_04: So we decided to name it, you know, uh Coach Kulberg's Too Many Men.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but if you can see the screen here, let's have a little fun.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me how to set the rink up here.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_04: What am I doing?
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_04: Where am I putting stuff?
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're gonna do a cross-ice game.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you're gonna put your nets cross-ice um in zone.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're gonna face, yep, just like that.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_04: Inside the circle?
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_04: Perfect.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_04: Let's get the other one.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_04: This is brought to us by Drift Hockey as well, which is uh a great online tool that kind of combines IHS and Team Snap and Huddle and all the great tools.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_04: So this is a great tool if you ever want to check it out, drill hockey uh drifthockey.com.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: So then you're gonna have um how I like to draw it is you're gonna have it as three players on one team and two players on the other team.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_04: So we'll play the the three players will be blue.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, three blue players.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_04: Which side of the uh where are we starting off?
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then just make sure you put a puck by one of those players.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_04: We gotta we gotta play with a puck.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_04: Are there goalies?
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_04: Do we have goalies?
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I typically reward with a puck and punish with playing defense, but do we have goalies?
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, please.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_04: Alright.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_04: And then we'll switch over to red.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_04: I guess we'll keep our goalie here first.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_04: I like reward with puck and punish with defense, especially with our defensemen here.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_04: Alright, so oh, do I have things set up correctly?
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: You do.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: Can we create a like imaginary line just inside the blue line, creating like a little zone?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_04: Do you want it going the same way as the blue line, or do you want it to go across the blue line?
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: Same way as the blue line.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_04: Let's uh so like this way, straight down?
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, then yeah, make it a little bit bigger.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: Keep going, um go to the your left a little bit.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_04: So in here, in here?
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh other way.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: In the zone.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Just like a little alley inside the blue line.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_04: Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_04: Let me move move some things around then.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: No worries.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: As long as those aren't kind of, yep, that works.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_04: Perfect.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_04: We can do this.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_04: And this is pretty much what our pretty much what our our barriers what our barriers look like when we're after the drill, anyways.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_04: They get pushed around.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll in if you're running this drill, you would draw that line, and then you're gonna put the third player, the third red jersey player on the other side of that.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: So they're gonna be in this alley, gotcha, and they're gonna go wherever they want in that alley.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_04: So right, right like here.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you can make depending on how much space your kids want.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: So if this is an older player drill, you might have it be as big as we have it here.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: If you're working with younger kids, I'm gonna move this down, and those the nets are gonna move down, and we're probably gonna run it top of the circles in and have that alley top of the circle to the blue line, right?
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so this drill is what I would call the always three on two.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, all the extra kids can just be outside the blue line, and pucks can be with coach um outside the blue line.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_04: Gotcha.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or you're coaching high school, so the pucks could be with the kids if you want them to put new pucks in.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: So they can't do that.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_04: No, we could do that.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_04: We we we could, or we could, you know, they don't get any more, they don't they don't always get any more trustworthy when they're uh you know when they're high schoolers.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: So no.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we have a coach here, yeah.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: Coach with pucks.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_04: All right, right here, splitting the zone.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_04: Cool.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_04: All right, all right, walk us through it.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so in this drill, it's always three on two.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: So right now you see that blue has the puck, so they have the advantage because they have possession of the puck.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is an awareness and vision drill.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: So working on some of the scanning skills that you know the blue team's attacking, as soon as the red team gains possession, that P3 that's in the alley joins automatically.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_04: Gotcha.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: Not with telling them, not with a pass, they join automatically, and that's what's nice about them being able to shadow the whole zone so they're watching.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: So if P3 there loses the puck to P2 um on the blue team, they the red player hops in and then one player on the blue team hops out.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: It does not have to right, it's any blue player.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, what we try to teach kids in this is who we always ask them the question, right?
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: Who would make the most sense to pop out of the drill?
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think the because a lot of times they think, well, the kid that came in, like right?
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because you might start this drill with one kid in or out, and you're like, Well, in a game, if you're the closest defender to the puck, are you going to leave?
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're probably not gonna go for a change, you're gonna stay in that one-on-one.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe in this situation, P1 on blue is the one who pops out when they lose that puck because they're not really engaged in that battle.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we're trying to teach them some of that awareness and some of those game situations where how can we anticipate when our team's about to gain possession so we can transition faster?
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where do I need to jump into on that transition for P3?
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: Am I jumping in defensive side, offensive side?
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what's happening?
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: I like when kids cheat this drill because that shows that they're like, no, I trust my teammates gonna win that battle or win that puck race.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think this drill is really hard for coaches.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really hard for coaches because they want to tell the kids when to go.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: They want to communicate on behalf of the kids.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: So they're telling P3 in red, go, go, join.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that kind of takes away the learning.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of it's telling the coach, like, maybe for the first time you run this drill, you can kind of help, especially with younger kids, but you're gonna want to pull that right back because they we want them to learn the skill without us being able to tell them when to go, because we can't really coach this from the bench in a game.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, these are the things we want them to be able to do on their own when it comes to that hockey sense transition and awareness.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I like this one because it teaches a lot of those things and also teaches the kids to communicate.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because I bet those four players in red jersey outside of the alley are yelling at the if you if you're keeping scarf in, you know, you're the kid with the puck on red wants a third friend in there.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so this one for me is a really fluid, fun um game that has a really important thinking component to it.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I what I like about it is obviously you you're starting off with a constraint where you've got a three-on-two advantage.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so in this instance, the red team has got to, you know, understand, you know, how they're gonna be on puck or off puck on defense to try and regain that possession.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_04: And the blue team, you know, how much are they gonna use their advantage?
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, they should be, you know, sharing the puck and taking advantage of this.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you know, in a perfect world, they shouldn't lose possession.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but uh, I I love the constraint components to this, the scanning, the support, the communication.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah, there's a whole there's a whole lot.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_03: I love the element of who comes off.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_03: And and and how's that uh and then the awareness between the kids uh well, you know, maybe I shouldn't come off because there's a better choice who should come off.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_03: So uh that's a that that's a fun wrinkle to the stroll.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm sure there'll be arguments too.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not getting off.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um what do we call this drill?
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: I call this Ally 3v2.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you can call it whatever you want.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not gonna we're gonna call it, we're gonna call it Coach Sager.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_04: It's Ally 3v2.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sounds good.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it started with a different name that um continuous 3v2, and people were like, it's not continuous.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you're right, it's not actually a continuous drill, it's a small area game.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, and I love I love how you shrink the zone.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, you could even you could do 2v1, you know, and have the nets even closer.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there's so many different things that you can do.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we we like to kind of work you know nets closer and then gradually move them apart throughout the practice.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_04: And this is one where you could even put the nets and the dots, play two v1 uh with with person off to the side, and then just grow this game.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_04: You know, this seems something we could do in the neutral zone between the blue lines.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but the concept, I love the idea of deciding who's the right person or the best person to change.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and sometimes if you give up the puck, we always tell our kids if you lose the puck or lose the battle, go get the puck back or start another battle.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_04: And so you you almost have it's like a there's a support factor in there as well.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_04: So I love this game.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_04: This is this is definitely one that's probably gonna get get played this Friday.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_04: Very well.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_04: Well, Kristen, we can't thank you enough for giving us uh you know an hour's worth of your time.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_04: This has been a great insightful conversation for me and Drew.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and and I know that you know, as we you know talk to different coaches and and people are listening to this, it's gonna be a great uh a great episode for our coaches to just again improve and get better.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, we always say our number one job as coaches and parents is to make sure the kids are coming back next year.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_04: And um, you know, hopefully we we've got some nuggets of uh knowledge and insight that'll that'll help coaches you know you know accomplish that goal because that's the number one goal is keep them coming back.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_03: And thank you for doing everything you're doing, growing the girls game.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it's an honor to have you on.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for sharing your stories, your wisdom with all of our players out there and our coaches.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_04: Go USA 3P.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_04: All right, Kristen, have a great evening.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, we're mapping the drill book, and now we got uh now we got Kristen's drill in there.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_03: Now we got a now we got a pilot to test it out.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_03: I I've already got some kids I'm thinking about on this whole who's coming off the ice thing while we're running this drill.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I can just imagine some of the uh discussions going no, not me.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_03: Why don't you go off?
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: You should have stayed on.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_04: Hockey players argue with each other, that never happens.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I I personally you know love the conversation that we have with Kristen.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_04: And and more importantly, I I think just the the insight of her being a a hockey player and a coach and being able to say, you know, understand that there are differences between boys and girls, but at the end of the day, you know, we're we're we're trying to have fun, um, you know, getting that connection before you can have that correction.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, that's been a theme throughout all of the USA.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_04: That's an ism.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_04: That's an ism.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_04: I I think who I think we I think I might have first heard that at level five.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_04: I had to break it up.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_04: Come on, come on.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, in any any event, though, I can't you know thank Kristen and Bob Mancini and the rest of USA hockey for being available and and you know supporting the show.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_04: Great show tonight, great uh great feedback and insight.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_04: And hopefully the coaches and parents and players who listen to our show um take a lot of what she said to heart and make them better players and better coaches.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_03: So hey, uh we're growing the game one episode at a time, one week at a time.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_03: So, Bob, thanks for keeping the fun out there in USA hockey.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_03: Chris, thanks for all you're doing with the girls game.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's a wrap on this week.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_04: Don't forget if you're in town in St.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_04: Louis, Thursday, six o'clock, Tapoingo, come see Too Many Man on the Mike Acoustic version.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, some great fun, hopefully some great weather, great golf, spring is in the air, and some great new songs.