Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 03 - Dr Stanley Lewis, CEO & Founder A28 Therapeutics

Transcript

Episode 03 - Dr Stanley Lewis, CEO & Founder A28 Therapeutics · The BioHub - by Avetix

0:05
Welcome back to the Bio Hub. Today we're honoured to have the
0:09
CEO and Founder of a 28 therapeutics with a remarkable
0:13
25 year career in life sciences across clinical research and
0:17
drug development. He is a true leader in the
0:20
field. Formerly Chief Medical Officer
0:22
at Anson Biopharma, he successfully LED late stage
0:25
trials, help secure $100 million Series B and contributed to
0:30
strategic in licensing efforts. In 2021, we founded a 28 aiming
0:36
to revolutionize global cancer care.
0:39
Please welcome Doctor Stanley Lewis, welcome to the show.
0:43
How are you? Good.
0:44
Morning, Max. I'm great.
0:46
Thank you. Good pleasure to have you and
0:50
let's let's crack on. So first of all, can you provide
0:54
an overview of your career journey and how you got started
0:57
in your field? Sure.
1:01
So I am an internal medicine physician by training.
1:04
I trained at the University of Texas Medical School at Houston,
1:07
where I did my internship, presidency and fellowship and
1:10
then joined the faculty there for several years.
1:13
I did what faculty members do. I saw patients.
1:16
I taught residents and students and and did some clinical
1:21
research. The clinical research part was
1:22
probably the most rewarding and most interesting portion to me.
1:27
I worked in the field of HIV disease and helped to develop
1:30
new medications for patients. At that time, you know, HIV was
1:35
a really, really difficult disease to treat.
1:39
The medications that we had were very toxic.
1:42
So I was very keen on trying to find new therapies that were
1:45
much more tolerable for patients.
1:48
And it was from there I was recruited into a biotechnology
1:51
company that was developing just such a therapy that was
1:54
particularly well tolerated. Certainly all the patients that
1:58
I enrolled on clinical trials were enjoyed that medication and
2:02
that's where I was sort of bitten by the drug development
2:05
bug. Yeah, nice, Nice.
2:10
So can you share the origin story of a 28 and the
2:13
inspiration behind its founding? Well, yeah, I think that sort of
2:18
merges with my story for the most part.
2:22
It I'm not sure if I found a 28 or if it found me to be to be
2:28
honest. So after after I transitioned
2:33
into the biotech world, the first company that I was the
2:40
medical director and that company was purchased by a much
2:43
larger company and that company did not want to go into the
2:46
field of HIV. And so they asked me to stick
2:50
around and help them out license the product that I was working
2:52
on and I did that to another small company and we were very
2:56
fortunate to get that drug all the way through the FDA approval
3:00
process and onto the market is now a called Trigarzo and it's
3:07
approved for treatment of multi drug resistant HIV disease,
3:10
something I'm I'm very proud of. We were able to successfully
3:14
navigate that that regulatory path.
3:18
And then it was after that that I got recruited to come out to
3:21
California to work with another small company answered by a
3:24
pharma you mentioned to work on a drug for treatment of
3:27
hospitalized influenza and it was about that time that that
3:31
COVID entered the world scene and dominated the world scene.
3:37
And actually I like to say it often often say it cured the
3:41
flu. We were, we were working on a
3:43
drug to treat the flu but no one was getting the flu anymore.
3:45
So it was difficult to enroll that trial and during that time
3:48
I was also charged with trying to find additional drugs for our
3:53
company to develop. We had lots of cash and we were
3:59
but we only had this one asset. So I went looking around for
4:03
items, you know assets that we could we could develop and I ran
4:07
across one that was really very interesting to me.
4:11
It had. It was like an antibiotic in
4:15
that it was a lytic peptide and lytic peptides like vancomycin
4:19
or deptomycin, these are all lytic peptides but had been
4:22
retooled to treat cancer. They'd put a targeting unit on
4:25
it which was this hormone that would bind to cancer cells and
4:29
then it would just kill cancer cells like antibiotics kill
4:32
bacteria. So I came from the infectious
4:36
disease area which was, which was sort of my home.
4:40
But but oncology was an area that was also very near and dear
4:45
to me because I'd, you know, like everyone I'd lost family
4:48
members including my father to to to cancer.
4:52
And so the opportunity to develop a drug that would treat
4:55
cancer was it was very intriguing to me and that I had
4:59
this background in infectious disease and this molecule
5:01
resembled an antibiotic, seemed like a perfect fit.
5:06
Yeah. And just going back to you know
5:08
COVID as well, I don't think I've really spoken about this
5:11
pre pandemic, but you know, what was it like to it would almost
5:16
be like. It was.
5:19
It was. It was a pretty incredible time
5:22
for us, as it was, I'm sure for everyone, because we didn't
5:26
really know what was going on. It was a, it was an area of time
5:31
where you felt, you know, you felt afraid because you knew the
5:37
limitations of our industry. You knew the limitations of the,
5:42
you know, sort of the medications and the tools that
5:43
we had to treat this, which was essentially none.
5:46
And we were employing mostly public health type efforts to
5:49
fight COVID. But I was also hopeful because
5:54
in that process we learned a lot.
5:56
We learned a lot about how quickly we could mobilize our
6:00
resources. We learned a lot about how
6:02
quickly we could use some of the tools that we've been using for
6:04
other things and repurpose them to address this COVID crisis.
6:09
And in the end, you know, I think we came out a stronger,
6:14
you know, a stronger industry on the other side.
6:17
Efforts that we had within our own company to to address COVID
6:23
were not successful, but but they were definitely, it wasn't
6:28
for lack of trying because everyone was putting their,
6:31
putting their attention on trying to come up with a
6:32
solution for that, for that terrible disease.
6:36
Yeah, That's interesting that you know that you talk about it
6:39
being better for for the long term of the industry.
6:43
I think that's really interesting.
6:45
Yeah well it was it was difficult in the moment for sure
6:48
but it's nice to have. You know I'm I'm I feel
6:53
confident that we've got the worst of it behind this.
6:54
I won't say it's all gone but for sure.
6:56
Yeah, I think we have a a much better handle on it and and it
7:01
would be a, it would be a terrible shame if we didn't
7:03
learn some things that went would be useful for us going
7:05
forward from that, from that ordeal.
7:08
Yeah, 100 percent, 100%. So on terms of the next
7:13
question, what What advice do you have for aspiring
7:16
entrepreneurs looking to enter the biotech industry, especially
7:19
those with innovative ideas or technologies?
7:25
You know I'm I'm very fortunate because I've had the opportunity
7:32
to be on that forefront as you as you discussed with with COVID
7:36
and as was the case with HIV disease and now as as it is with
7:40
with cancer to be on the forefront where you're you're
7:44
looking forward to new and better ways of treating
7:49
patients. And I would advise
7:51
entrepreneurs, you know, really, really three things.
7:56
You really have to be in touch with your wife.
7:58
You know, why are you doing this?
8:00
What's what's important to you? What are you really passionate
8:03
about? Because it's a long journey and
8:07
it's a difficult journey and you're going to run into some,
8:11
you know, you're going to run into some some hurdles.
8:13
And I think that's probably the second thing I would say is you
8:16
need to be resilient because they're going to be some things
8:19
that you didn't expect. There's going to be some
8:21
difficulties that were unforeseen that you'll have to
8:24
get over. So you need to be very, very
8:27
committed to whatever your dream is, which is why it's so
8:29
important for you to be passionate about it.
8:32
And then finally, I would say, make friends.
8:37
You know you. This is not something that you
8:39
can do alone. You'll want to surround yourself
8:42
with helpful, you know, helpful people, skilled people, smart
8:45
people. You'll want to have mentors,
8:48
people who've done it before. Perhaps that can give you give
8:51
you guidance. But I would also say it's a
8:54
super fun journey too. So you know, don't be afraid.
8:58
I mean you will have some fear. There will be some things that
9:02
that keep you up at night, that sort of intimidating things.
9:07
But just don't let those things inside you.
9:08
Don't let them block you, Don't let them prevent you from
9:11
getting to your dream. That's the only way we advance
9:17
in this society and I think that's how we grow as people as
9:19
we overcome you know, we overcome our doubts, our self
9:23
doubts and our fears. So entrepreneurial journey is a
9:25
journey that will be you know by definition it's going to have
9:29
some some things that you that you find a little bit
9:33
frightening because you're stretching yourself and you're
9:35
stretching your industry, you're stretching, you know, you're
9:37
stretching what we know right now that the known into some
9:41
some areas of the unknown. But boy, it's nothing more
9:46
exhilarating than taking that adventure.
9:49
Is there is there a right time as well to go and take that
9:53
plunge and do that venture or? You know I've never, I've never
9:57
really thought about that. I think the time, the time sort
10:02
of comes together and sort of finds you kind of like I did
10:06
with this molecule. It's a sort of comes together
10:09
when it comes together. When you're ready you'll know
10:12
that there is there's a there's a call.
10:16
It either comes from you being discontented with the the way
10:19
things are, or it's just something that you really want
10:22
to see in the world. And then you realize that you're
10:26
the only one or you think you're the only one that can make that
10:28
happen. You think you're the best person
10:30
for sure that can make that happen.
10:32
And you realize that no one is going to do this unless I do.
10:37
And that's a big part of the timing.
10:39
It's when you realize that that's that's when it's time to
10:43
go for it. Yeah.
10:44
So there's no part of you, especially now you're doing it
10:47
that wishes you'd done it sooner?
10:48
Or you know, there is a part of me that sort of wishes I'd done
10:52
it sooner. I, you know, I do believe that
10:57
that there is a maturation process, that sort of gestation
11:00
process, you know, that you go through and everyone's timing
11:05
and journey is different. But if I were to look back, I
11:09
was, I was too afraid. I was too timid.
11:12
I was too fearful earlier in my career to just take the the
11:17
plunge into being an entrepreneur.
11:19
So, you know, if I had a chance to go back and do it over, I
11:24
would have brushed off those fears and jump right in much
11:27
sooner. But alas, this is where I find
11:30
myself and it's not too late. Yeah, yeah.
11:33
And I feel like, you know, I feel like I did benefit from
11:37
some of those experiences and hopefully they'll they'll make
11:39
the journey smoother going forward.
11:43
No, I completely agree with all that.
11:44
Yeah. So look, biotech companies often
11:48
focus on innovative therapeutics.
11:51
How do you approach the design of clinical trials for novel
11:54
treatments, considering the unique aspects of these
11:57
groundbreaking therapies? Well, at age 28, we we are
12:02
really focused on creating safer therapies.
12:06
One of the paradigms that was true in HIV disease where I was
12:09
before is also true now for cancer patients is that you
12:14
know, sometimes the treatment is more difficult then the disease.
12:21
At least the patients oftentimes will tell you that, you know, I
12:25
don't know which one I feel most, the the cancer itself or
12:29
the HIV itself or all of these you know, toxic therapy
12:33
therapies that I'm going to have to endure in exchange for
12:36
perhaps a few more months or a few more years of life.
12:39
And so innovative to me means going beyond that which we have
12:46
in terms of its efficacy, but also going beyond what we have
12:50
in terms of its safety. So when I think about clinical
12:53
trials, when I think about you know treatments and how we can
12:57
make things more groundbreaking, I try to create a balance
13:01
between making things more effective as well as making sure
13:05
that we are addressing the safety issues.
13:09
I took this Hippocratic Oath when I became a physician to
13:12
first do no harm and I took that oath very seriously.
13:16
So. So the thing I like a lot about
13:18
the the therapies that we're developing at age 28 is that
13:22
they can bring a great improvements relative to
13:27
relative to the efficacy of how we treat cancers, but also that
13:34
they're remarkably safe, I should say remarkably well
13:38
tolerated molecules when you think about them on the scale of
13:42
existing cancer therapies. Yeah, nice.
13:47
Nice to adapt adaptive trial designs and becoming more common
13:53
in biotech. Can you discuss your experience
13:55
with adaptive trials and their impact on the efficiency and
13:59
success of clinic clinical development programs?
14:02
Yes. Well we're we're applying an
14:04
adaptive trial design to our next phase of development and
14:08
that is to say that you take the results at some portion of your
14:12
trial, some interim portion or some predefined time point in
14:16
your trial and you look at the data and use that data to more
14:23
efficiently design subsequent portions of the clinical trial.
14:26
In our case, we're going to look at the dose and you know dose
14:33
optimization as well as the proof of concept of our molecule
14:38
in the 1st, 20 or 30 patients. And then we'll look at see how
14:43
well we did in terms of selecting those patients in
14:46
terms of the dosing regimen, how much etcetera.
14:50
And then use that information to design the 2nd portion of our
14:55
trial which we envision will be which will be be appropriate for
15:00
potentially an accelerated approval.
15:03
Such adaptive trial designs are much more efficient than the old
15:08
way of doing things, which required you to do a clinical
15:11
trial, get your results, analyze your data, shut all of that down
15:17
and then start a new clinical trial based on that information.
15:21
This just allows us to go seamlessly, seamlessly forward
15:24
and hopefully will result in in better outcomes and certainly
15:29
faster outcomes for patients who are waiting.
15:32
Yeah, nice. Nice.
15:36
So collaboration is key in clinical development involving
15:40
partnerships with research institutions, CR OS and other
15:43
stakeholders. How do you approach these
15:46
collaborations to optimize the execution?
15:49
I do believe that there's an old African proverb that says, you
15:54
know, if you want to go fast, go alone, if you want to go far, go
15:58
together. So collaboration is very key if
16:02
you're going to take this you know sort of all the way
16:04
particularly in clinical development and finding
16:07
partnerships whether they are with other pharma companies or
16:13
whether they're with your funding partners or whether
16:15
they're with other research institutions or your vendors is
16:19
an extremely important part of this.
16:21
There's no part of this that says that you can sponsor that
16:24
the sponsor can do it sort of all by themselves.
16:28
And if you can develop those relationships with like minded
16:32
partners and like minded groups, it can, it can bring so much
16:36
more innovation and so much more richness to the product as well
16:41
as improve on the, you know, the time and reduce the cost of the
16:44
of of development. So I I ranked collaboration as
16:48
one of the top things that that that that can serve to energize
16:53
and optimize the drug development process.
16:58
Yeah. And.
16:59
How do you find the right person to collaborate with then?
17:03
You know, that process is is really in my experience has been
17:06
much more sort of hit or miss. I think that there's an old
17:12
saying, you know, preparation is to performance as circulation is
17:19
to look. So to find the right
17:22
collaborators you really need to circulate.
17:24
You know, you can't sit at home and sort of think about it in in
17:27
a vacuum. You have to get out.
17:29
You have to talk to folks. And in that process, you'll get
17:33
lucky and you'll eventually find your way to the folks who have
17:38
that thing that you need that's going to help you get through
17:40
the next step, get over the next hurdle, traverse the next
17:44
obstacle in your development journey, in your pathway.
17:47
But you know, there's not a handbook, there's not a, you
17:51
know, there's not a blueprint on, oh, you're doing this.
17:53
You have to collaborate with this person, this person and
17:55
this person where it's much more of a it's much more of a
18:00
relationship building. It's much more of a dance.
18:04
Find the person who doesn't step on your toes and you enjoyed and
18:08
you guys enjoy the same music. I agree.
18:10
You know, I come from the other side of that.
18:13
You know, I'm looking to collaborate with with people
18:16
like you and you know, work with you.
18:18
I actually sort of, I should have added recruiters to that
18:21
list and that question, because I get that it's all about
18:26
relationship building and and you know, finding people you get
18:29
along with as well more than anything.
18:31
Yeah, I think that you know, you nailed it.
18:34
It's difficult. This work is is hard enough.
18:40
And then get stuck with someone that you can't get along or you
18:43
have, you know opposing views or antagonistic ways of getting
18:49
things done. Oh boy, that can make this, that
18:52
can make this very torturous. So so very important to to
18:57
connect with with like minded folks who are interested, have
19:01
the same goals in mind as you have and and similar approaches
19:05
to the to the task at hand. No, I definitely agree with
19:09
that. Definitely agree.
19:10
So moving back on to a 28, what, what would you say is the core
19:15
mission and vision of the company?
19:18
Well, our vision is to we envision a world where cancer
19:23
patients do not fear the cancer or its treatment.
19:30
So that Harkins back to this idea that we really want to
19:33
bring forth therapies that are more safe, that are more well
19:37
tolerated than the currently available offerings for treating
19:42
this disease. That's really very important to
19:45
me. It was motivating to me in HIV
19:48
and it still continues to be a very core motivation for me and
19:51
thus the vision of this company. Our mission for the company is
19:55
to get our lead compound AT1O1 through its developmental
20:01
hurdles. That is to demonstrate
20:04
prospectively our proof of concept to optimize our dose and
20:08
then ultimately get this drug approved.
20:10
So it can be an offering for patients with multiple different
20:13
kinds of cancers that express the receptor.
20:16
That our particular molecule targets.
20:18
We also sort of more broadly than that as a mission because
20:22
we do have a pipeline of products behind our lead
20:25
compound. We want this to become a new
20:28
paradigm, you know sort of a shift in the way that the way
20:34
that cancer drugs are shifting, the way that we think about
20:39
cancer drugs. And I say that to say you know
20:44
there's this, there's an example I like to give in this in this
20:49
instance where you think about the flight attendants on on a
20:55
plane and they give the safety briefing and they often tell you
20:58
about the aisle path lighting that will change in color when
21:02
you reach to an exit. And keep in mind that the
21:04
closest exit may be behind you. And I think that's one of the
21:08
things that as part of our journey with a 28 is we want to
21:13
remind folks in our field, folks doing drug development, folks
21:17
that are, you know, pursuing therapies and treatments for
21:20
cancer that hey, you know, the closest exit may be behind you.
21:23
You know, sometimes we get really obsessed with some of the
21:27
more complex and the more sort of sexy science that is a big
21:32
part of what we do. And it's not that I don't think
21:35
those things won't work. I do think that a lot of these
21:37
very clever and elegant ways of of of going deep into the
21:42
science will ultimately lead you to an exit but in our case our
21:46
molecules pretty simple. It's like that exit right behind
21:49
you it's it's it was the closest thing we have a molecule.
21:52
It looks like an antibiotic. It it behaves very similar to
21:57
antibiotics and it's conjugated to our hormone that helps you
22:01
target the exact cells that you're trying to kill which are
22:05
the malignant cells, the cancer cells.
22:07
And it works pretty pretty quickly and in in a very simple
22:11
mechanism that I think will be be a refreshing new way of
22:16
thinking about cancer. Not as this complex not as this
22:19
you know sort of overwhelming thing but actually something
22:22
that we can we can think of in very similar ways as we think
22:27
about bacteria and usually think about those types of diseases as
22:32
things that we have no no reason to fear.
22:34
We will definitely come up with something that can take care of
22:37
it. That's what I that's what I
22:39
really hoped for at a 28. I hope it ushers in this new,
22:42
this new way of thinking. I think that's amazing.
22:45
And you can really see the passion as well when you're
22:48
talking about it, which is, which is massive.
22:54
And look, biotechs often face challenges in terms of funding,
22:58
resource allocation. How has your company navigated
23:02
these challenges to secure the necessary support for its growth
23:05
and development? Well, that's a good question
23:09
because we at we're still in the process of raising a Series A
23:12
which is $20 million funding round to help us get back into
23:19
the clinic, get our drug manufactured, conduct this
23:23
clinical trial to demonstrate the proof of concept as well as
23:27
some dose optimization. And then even more funding will
23:30
be needed after that to conduct a larger trial or finish
23:35
conducting in the the ongoing trial to get to an an
23:40
accelerated approval. And this is sort of the worst
23:42
time in the world to be in biotech boy if we'd just done
23:46
this oh 2-3 years ago it would have been a much different
23:49
story. The worst time in the world to
23:51
be trying to raise money within this field.
23:54
It's it's a, it's it's one of those times where the market has
23:59
sort of shifted and there's a bit of a correction after
24:03
perhaps over exuberance into the into the field two or three
24:06
years ago sort of during the COVID epidemic pandemic.
24:10
And now there's been sort of this you know sort of pull back
24:13
and it's difficult for companies to to gain the attention of
24:17
potential funders and then for those funders to embrace you
24:21
know sort of something that's sort of new and sort of
24:23
different. I've heard it said that, you
24:26
know, venture capitalists invest in the second trip to the moon.
24:32
It's the visionaries who who invest in the first trip to the
24:35
moon. So if I was developing a a, me
24:38
too type of therapy, a therapy that has, you know, multiple
24:42
examples of approved drugs that have used the same mechanism or
24:46
are are very similar approaches, I think that my life would be a
24:50
lot easier. But when you're an entrepreneur
24:52
and you're developing a product that's innovative, innovative in
24:55
the space, innovative in the way it looks, innovative in the way
24:59
it works, then you've got to get more visionary and more you know
25:05
less risk averse funders. So that's been a little bit more
25:08
difficult to of course to do to find but we're not we're hanging
25:15
in there we're we're, we feel like this is a a treatment that
25:18
deserves an opportunity and and we want to continue to to press
25:23
forward. Yeah, you're definitely right.
25:26
The last year, you know, it's been been tough, you know, even
25:31
even like me like trying to find people hiring.
25:33
You know, it's it's much tougher than it's it's ever been, at
25:37
least while I've been in the industry and I don't know if
25:40
it's the same for you in the industry.
25:41
I would agree. Yeah.
25:42
I've not seen, you know, and I was here for 2000 and eight,
25:46
2009 and the big recession in the United States and sort of
25:49
globally there was a pullback. But this is, you know, this is
25:54
different. This, this.
25:55
This feels even more barren than those days.
26:00
Why? Why is that though?
26:01
Because, you know, you could argue that the economy was in
26:04
worse state back then than it is now.
26:07
So. I I would agree and I think
26:10
that's probably a better question for you know for one of
26:12
the VCs. You know, I think if if if I
26:16
look at it from where I sit, I think the the missed opportunity
26:21
here the, the reason that the market is sort of not working
26:25
smoothly the way I had hoped it would move is because the larger
26:32
pharmaceutical companies that are flush with all this cash
26:35
that they got from COVID during that period of time when the,
26:38
you know, when things were flowing probably flowing too
26:41
much, have not taken that cash and done the, you know, the the
26:48
necessary level of merger and acquisition of the smaller
26:52
companies that that are starved for funding anyway.
26:55
So if you've got a company that's a small private company
27:00
that can't raise money and because the VCs aren't, you
27:04
know, aren't investing and they can't IPO because the market
27:07
window is closed, then large pharma should say we can
27:11
negotiate a really good deal, right, Because there's a lot of
27:15
supply. You know there's a, there's a
27:18
whole lot of supply of these small companies.
27:21
So I should be able to get a great deal and come in and and
27:24
purchase some of the better, you know some of the better
27:26
programs. But we just haven't seen the
27:28
kind of merger and acquisition activity.
27:32
It's certainly not at the level that we would have need to see
27:35
it to sort of get this you know sort of ball rolling again and
27:40
that's in my opinion of you know it's always easy to just blame
27:44
everything on big pharma. But but I do I do wish we would
27:49
see more of merger and acquisition activity and I think
27:52
that would get investors excited again, it would certainly get
27:55
the VCs to feeling better because now they're they're
27:58
getting the exits that they that they thrive on and then once
28:02
they start getting exits of course then they start putting
28:04
more money into smaller startups and and this you know this cycle
28:09
continue gets a chance to resume.
28:12
So we're really waiting on that that kind of activity to happen.
28:18
We've got AJP Morgan conference coming up next month and
28:23
hopefully with that and some renewed awareness and renewed
28:28
vigor that we'll start to see this 2024 hopefully will be the,
28:33
you know, last, the last of the barren time.
28:37
Yeah, real praying for it. Definitely all praying for it.
28:42
So what role does collaboration, I suppose you you may be
28:47
touching it a little bit there with external partners or
28:50
research institutions play in your company's innovation
28:53
strategy. Well, you know I it's really
28:56
related now, but beyond just the just the vendors and the
29:03
advisors and other companies that we may want to work with,
29:07
it really does extend to this idea of you know sort of merger
29:12
and acquisition. Once we can get our product to a
29:17
stage where we have the prospective proof of concept and
29:22
we've made a few more clinical, you know we checked off a few
29:27
more clinical milestones. I believe that that becomes an
29:31
opportunity for us to then take this product and market to you
29:37
know present it to potential suitors who can then add their
29:41
commercial muscle to to helping us move this thing on into the
29:48
on into the clinic. I believe that with the results
29:50
that we have from previous clinical trials that show that
29:54
the drug is very well tolerated and hint at where we can find
29:59
the most efficacy in which patients will benefit the most
30:03
from this. I have no doubt that if we can
30:05
just duplicate that, if we can even come, you know half as much
30:10
of what we've seen before in our retrospective analysis that we
30:14
will be able to get this, get this product into the hands of
30:20
of of a larger institution that will be able to push it, push it
30:24
on across the finish line. And if we don't, then hopefully
30:27
by then the IPO markets will be available and our corporate
30:30
strategy will shift to to becoming public.
30:34
Yeah, yeah. Nice.
30:36
And then so we're just going to finish on this last question and
30:41
you know it's something that I see a lot of all the time being
30:44
in recruitment of the industry. So interested to know everyone's
30:49
thoughts on it, but you know let's see what what you say.
30:51
So biotech has historically faced challenges related to
30:56
diversity. Can you share your insights into
30:58
the current landscape of diversity within the industry
31:01
and what steps are you taking? Oh, well, you know, I think
31:07
you're right. Biotech, you know, is is a huge
31:11
industry, you know, so part of the whole bigger, even more
31:15
broad healthcare industry that makes up, you know, perhaps 1/5
31:18
of the United States GDP, yet it remains a very segregated,
31:24
racially segregated industry, you know, for the most part.
31:27
And I I would also that say that that extends to to to women as
31:32
well. And I think one of the problems
31:35
is when we talk about this is that we, you know, so we
31:40
conflate all the different kinds of diversity that that word
31:43
diversity is, is so diverse, right.
31:47
You know so there's there's this, this global diversity in
31:51
healthcare outcomes, right, this sort of disproportionate
31:56
outcomes as it relates relates to women and and racial
32:03
minorities underrepresented, you know sort of minorities that for
32:07
instance, you know blacks have three times more likely to get
32:12
an amputation for the same same condition as their white
32:17
counterparts, right. So it's it's that idea that
32:21
Healthcare is not serving, is not serving people for people.
32:28
Then there's diversity that sort of relates to there's the
32:33
workforce, right? Are we are we attracting
32:40
talented young girls or talented racial minorities getting them
32:45
interested in science, technology, you know engineering
32:49
and mathematics, these sort of STEM courses, making sure that
32:52
that is available and presented as an option for those who may
32:56
have that kind of dream or may not just just be totally
32:59
unaware. Then there's diversity of
33:02
clinical trials, you know do do racial minorities, do
33:06
underrepresented minorities, do women participate in clinical
33:09
trials at the same rate as as as other races or or the male
33:16
gender. Thus telling us that the
33:18
medications or treatments that we're studying are actually safe
33:22
and effective across all the, you know, all the sort of
33:26
spectrum of potential, you know of potential, potential
33:30
patients. And then you have this diversity
33:33
that's probably more related to what you you were referring to,
33:36
which is diversity within the life sciences industry itself,
33:40
right? Are we hiring, are we retaining,
33:46
are we promoting the talent that we have?
33:50
Is the talent that comes into our companies being allowed to
33:54
be heard, made to feel like they belong?
33:58
And are they having the same opportunities to be them, You
34:02
know, sort of be the authentic selves within the company.
34:05
And that's one of the funded sort of area of diversity.
34:09
And all of these areas need to be addressed.
34:12
But the one that gets to me the most is and you know of course
34:16
I'm biased, but the one that gets to me the most is the
34:19
diversity in funding, right. When you look at the, you know
34:24
the billions of dollars that have gone into funding of
34:28
biotech companies over the last year, about 2% went to women
34:33
entrepreneurs and women founders but that's crazy.
34:37
But .13% went to black founders. So it's a, there's a really huge
34:46
disconnect when it comes to the opportunity for for women and
34:53
you sort of bipoc minorities to, you know, to to get the chance
35:00
to have their dreams funded. And I want to have my dreams
35:03
funded too, right. I want to be able to pursue the
35:07
things that that I believe will be helpful and useful and
35:10
beneficial to our society. And that will give us an
35:13
opportunity to move beyond our sort of current plateaus where I
35:17
think we've, we've sort of gotten stuck and and become
35:21
almost, you know, satisfied with sort of incremental changes.
35:27
You know, I want breakthroughs. I I want to change.
35:30
I want, I want, I want to, I want to put cancer in the
35:32
rearview mirror. You know, I want to, I want to
35:35
turn the tables here. And if we're going to do that,
35:38
if we're going to, if we keep doing the same, if we keep
35:41
funding the same companies, if we keep funding the same people
35:43
all the time, well, don't be surprised if you get the same
35:46
results, the same changes. But if we could bring some new
35:49
voices to the table, if we can bring some new faces, you know
35:53
to the table and fund some of those some of those adventures
35:57
and maybe maybe we can get some breakthroughs here and and and
36:01
move, you know move beyond where we currently, where we currently
36:05
are. I think that I I'm super excited
36:08
and I'm super optimistic about the potential for diversity in
36:12
our industry and what it will, what it will mean up and down
36:15
the entire spectrum of the ways that you can look at diversity.
36:20
But I do know this for sure. We got to do better.
36:24
You know, it's it's, it's really, it's really one of those
36:28
areas I think within within our society where where diversity
36:34
would really help and I think where where diversity is really
36:37
needed. No, I agree.
36:39
And you've actually given me a really different outlook onto it
36:44
as well. You know I never knew that about
36:46
fundraising and you know how how little goes to to its market and
36:52
and female founders that's that's.
36:56
Well, you know, it's it's tough out here for sure and and you
37:01
know there's an old saying in my community, well, if they get a
37:07
cold you get pneumonia, right. And it's it's one of those
37:11
things that as you've seen the pullback in general from the
37:15
biotech industry, it's just become that much more that much
37:19
more difficult for for minority entrepreneurs to attract to
37:24
attractive funding. So to whatever degree this
37:26
podcast can can increase the awareness and hopefully you know
37:31
spark a conversation and ultimately spark change then
37:35
then it'll it'll have been worth it.
37:36
Thank you for the opportunity. Yeah, absolutely.
37:39
I'm glad I heard it. And yeah, it's something I talk
37:42
about a lot. But yeah, like you're right very
37:44
much from a progression and, you know, a team's look on it.
37:49
But you know, I I suppose I've been quite short sighted in the
37:51
way I've looked at it and not thinking about all the other
37:54
factors that come into it. And you know, I've worked with
37:58
companies that that only focus on my Asian prevalent cancers
38:02
and things like that. So, you know, I knew about those
38:04
aspects, but not not to the point that, you know, even
38:08
fundraising. That's crazy.
38:10
Yeah, it was a big issue. Diversity, I, like I said, I
38:14
tend to divide it up into lots of different categories.
38:17
And you can speak about any of them at length.
38:20
I mean you could have a whole podcast on on any one of those
38:23
aspects, clinical trials or you know promotion and hiring and
38:28
STEM you can talk about you know sort of about any of those
38:31
things disparities in healthcare outcomes, you can talk about any
38:34
of those things. But if you if you ask me, I
38:38
think that the one thing that if we can address that would have a
38:43
trickle down effect is the diversity in funding.
38:47
Because you know that I'm not going to have a problem you know
38:50
hiring and promoting women or or racial minorities that would
38:56
just be sort of aesthetical to to my existence, right.
39:01
And you you can you can guarantee you that when I do a
39:05
clinical trial, I'm going to be very conscious and very, very
39:09
supportive of making sure that there are going to be adequate
39:13
representation so that we'll know that our drug is safe
39:16
across different racial and gender, gender lines.
39:20
So, So by funding our funding our entrepreneurs of color, I
39:26
think we can we can reap benefits all across the entire
39:29
diversity, diversity spectrum. Yeah, I agree.
39:33
And I actually think that's a really great place to leave it.
39:37
You know, it's such a big topic. So look, I thank you so much for
39:42
for coming on the podcast, Stanley.
39:45
I've actually really enjoyed it, taking a lot out of it as well.
39:47
So hopefully everyone else has. Well, thank you very much Max,
39:51
and happy holidays to you and your family.
39:55
See you later. Bye best to you.