Latest / Heartwise / HW 2026-08-20 Domestic Violence Part 2 - Charles Mills

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HW 2026-08-20 Domestic Violence Part 2 - Charles Mills · Heartwise

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Speaker 1: This is Heartwise, offering practical tips and time proven guidelines
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Speaker 1: to make your life healthier, happier, and more fulfilling. Today
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Speaker 1: you'll learn simple, Bible based principles for building and maintaining
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Speaker 1: optimum mental and physical health, all while deepening your relationship
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Speaker 1: with your creator. Hello everyone, I'm Charles Mills, health reporter
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Speaker 1: for Heartwise Ministries. Today we continue a conversation with Johnny
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Speaker 1: Lauren on the subject of domestic violence within church families. Yes,
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Speaker 1: you heard that right. You'd think we'd know better. You'd
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Speaker 1: think we, as Christians, would possess the inner strength to
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Speaker 1: bypass such outward violence. But many, and the number is
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Speaker 1: staggeringly high, simply don't. But as they say, knowledge is power,
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Speaker 1: and it's knowledge of the subject that our guest is
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Speaker 1: trying to impart to us today. Johnny Lauren recently retired
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Speaker 1: from her chosen profession of ophthalmology and is now a
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Speaker 1: member of the domestic violence Response team at Southern Adventist
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Speaker 1: University near Chattanooga, Tennessee. She speaks often at churches and
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Speaker 1: has recently written a series of study lessons on the
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Speaker 1: subject of domestic violence within church families. We'll talk about
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Speaker 1: that in just a minute. So I'm pleased to have
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Speaker 1: her back with us today. Johnny Lauren, welcome to Heartwives.
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Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
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Speaker 1: Let's begin with a little recap of what we talked
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Speaker 1: about last time. Bring us up to date on what
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Speaker 1: our discussion was about.
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Speaker 2: Okay, Well, we looked a little bit at what domestic
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Speaker 2: violence is. We talked about who it affects, and some
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Speaker 2: research that's been done, and then hopefully we have been
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Speaker 2: able to establish that the reason for domestic violence may
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Speaker 2: well be greatly affected by our view of God and
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Speaker 2: how we are taught. God looks to us by virtue
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Speaker 2: of home training, school, church training, and possibly how the
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Speaker 2: true gospel of good News may look a little bit
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Speaker 2: different to us.
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Speaker 1: Amen. Absolutely well, now I want to continue and begin
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Speaker 1: with the number one question that pops to minds when
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Speaker 1: someone confronts domestic violence. They see to this woman the
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Speaker 1: usually it's the woman and she's bruised and then hobbling along,
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Speaker 1: and the question always comes up is why.
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Speaker 2: Do you stay?
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Speaker 1: Why don't you leave? Why don't you pack your bags
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Speaker 1: and grab the children and get out of dodge? Why
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Speaker 1: don't they do that? In so many cases?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and in fact they may say, well, if she
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Speaker 2: stays around, she probably just deserves it, you know, And
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Speaker 2: that's sad to think of, But I will tell you
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Speaker 2: some reasons, and it happens many times. In fact, we
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Speaker 2: by research, have discovered that a woman usually leaves five
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Speaker 2: or six times before they leave for good. Quite often
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Speaker 2: they have called the police the same number of times
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Speaker 2: before they are murdered. So this is a real, really
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Speaker 2: important subject. Fear, plain and simple. A woman will have
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Speaker 2: a tremendous amount of fear, in large part to the
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Speaker 2: fact that the abuser has convinced her he means business,
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Speaker 2: and if she tries to leave, he will kill her
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Speaker 2: or there will be a great amount of something to pay.
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Speaker 1: This folds right into what you said last time about
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Speaker 1: our vision will about God. We think God is the
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Speaker 1: same way we say if we leave God, if we
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Speaker 1: don't follow what he wants, he will kill us.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely right on. And you'll discover as you study, and
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Speaker 2: I hope people will just google the words domestic violence.
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Speaker 2: You can find all kinds of training and information there.
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Speaker 2: And the more they study, I think if they're really
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Speaker 2: looking closely, they will see that the mo of an
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Speaker 2: abuser is exactly what Satan has tried to say, God
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Speaker 2: is like yes, and over and over. I think the
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Speaker 2: lack of appropriate education about what is required of a
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Speaker 2: woman or about how precious that woman is is a
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Speaker 2: big part of why they stay. They just they don't
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Speaker 2: understand their worth. They don't think they can make it.
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Speaker 2: And again, this has been told them over and over
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Speaker 2: by the abuser. You don't have the money to live
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Speaker 2: by yourself. You know, you can't live without me, and
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Speaker 2: sometimes the abuser, and it's no respective persons. They may
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Speaker 2: be in a family that's in a low income situation,
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Speaker 2: they may be very wealthy. It doesn't seem to matter.
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Speaker 2: In fact, the more money is involved, sometimes the more
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Speaker 2: control is involved. There's fear there. They're used to living
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Speaker 2: a certain way, and what would happen if I leave?
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Speaker 2: You know, I don't know where to go. I don't
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Speaker 2: know how I would raise the children by myself. And
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Speaker 2: then I think a false belief is that the child
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Speaker 2: is better off with two parents, no matter what that
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Speaker 2: looks like, then if they had one. You know, that
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Speaker 2: has kind of been drilled into us, unfortunately through sermons, etc.
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Speaker 2: It's a great belief of mine that when we make
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Speaker 2: that promise at the altar. That again, is not an
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Speaker 2: arbitrary promise to God that no matter what, I think,
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Speaker 2: God would much rather though he hates divorce, I think
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Speaker 2: he would much rather see someone become unmarried than to
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Speaker 2: see one of his children hurt another of his children,
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Speaker 2: because in effect, he loves us so much he doesn't
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Speaker 2: want us to be hurt. And besides, that makes his
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Speaker 2: character look horrendous.
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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, God is looking at both partners here. He
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Speaker 1: is in pain for both partners. The abuser and the
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Speaker 1: abuse ee are in the heart of God and causing pain.
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Speaker 1: And the only way sometimes for this to stop is
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Speaker 1: a separation. Am I on the right truck?
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Speaker 2: Absolutely? The abuser, yes, is a child of God, just
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Speaker 2: like the other party, and he wants for them, not
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Speaker 2: just forgiveness. You know, the men who put Christ on
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Speaker 2: the cross were forgiven, but that did not mean they
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Speaker 2: were saved. It did not mean they were changed. We've
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Speaker 2: been forgiven from the foundations of the world. We just
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Speaker 2: don't know it yet sometimes, and that's what he wants
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Speaker 2: to show us, is who he is and how he
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Speaker 2: draws us to him. When he's appropriately lifted up. We
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Speaker 2: are drawn to him, not pushed away, not forced into
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Speaker 2: Christianity or into a relationship with him, because again, you
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Speaker 2: cannot force love, and God is love.
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Speaker 1: How about the woman who says, I have to stay
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Speaker 1: here because I am God's only avenue for reaching this man.
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Speaker 1: It has to be me. He's not going to listen
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Speaker 1: to anyone else. He doesn't go to church, she doesn't
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Speaker 1: read spiritual literature. I have to be God's mouth piece.
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Speaker 1: I mean, look what happened to Jesus. Jesus came down
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Speaker 1: and they killed him because he was doing the will
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Speaker 1: of God. I am doing the will of God if
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Speaker 1: I stay in this abusive situation and do my best
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Speaker 1: to help my husband. What's your answer to that?
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Speaker 2: First of all, I think it's a false belief that
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Speaker 2: God can only reach that person through the spouse. Sometimes,
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Speaker 2: when things are going on, the last person that can
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Speaker 2: reach someone is a relative. You have to back off
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Speaker 2: and let God do his work. And absolutely, sometimes just
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Speaker 2: setting healthy boundaries will remind that person, make them aware
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Speaker 2: that they need to get some help, that they're losing
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Speaker 2: something very precious to them, and that unless they discover
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Speaker 2: a better way of living, they've lost what they thought
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Speaker 2: they were getting when they married that person.
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Speaker 1: What is the long term effect here, Johnny, you have
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Speaker 1: studied into this, You have research and you have talked
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Speaker 1: to people. If the abuse continues, and you know, we
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Speaker 1: know that someone can die, but if they don't die,
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Speaker 1: what's the long term effect of a domestic violence situation
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Speaker 1: over time?
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Speaker 2: Well, let me give you a statistic. First, we all
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Speaker 2: remember the Vietnam era, sixty seven thousand men died during
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Speaker 2: that around ten year period. During that same ten year period,
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Speaker 2: sixty four thousand women died at the hand of their
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Speaker 2: significant others. Well, you know, that's just chilling. It gives
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Speaker 2: me the chills to just say it. But those are
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Speaker 2: the true statistics, and it helps us understand. I mean,
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Speaker 2: we talk about the Vietnamese War, we talk about the
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Speaker 2: men who died, not only on our side of course,
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Speaker 2: but their's and the unfortunate view of that, But do
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Speaker 2: we talk about the women that went through that. You know,
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Speaker 2: during that same period and on, three thousand women a
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Speaker 2: year die at the hands of their significant other And
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Speaker 2: also two thirds of murders that are done by kids
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Speaker 2: age fifteen to twenty one. Guess who they're killing? Their
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Speaker 2: mother's abuser. So the effects go on and on and
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Speaker 2: on like ripples. And waves, you know, when a stone
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Speaker 2: is thrown into the lake. And if they don't die,
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Speaker 2: and that was your original question, I believe they become
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Speaker 2: a shadow person. They disappear when we give our training.
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Speaker 2: We have a video that is just very it's heartwarming,
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Speaker 2: but it's sad, and the pastors that have seen it
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Speaker 2: have really responded to it. And it is by a
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Speaker 2: young lady who was married to a leader in the
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Speaker 2: church and he is now passed away and she feels
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Speaker 2: she can tell her story, but how her life became.
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Speaker 2: She was a nurse, she was a professional, but and
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Speaker 2: gradually she became afraid of her own shadow practically, and
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Speaker 2: this is what happens. You become less and less and
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Speaker 2: less of what God designs you to be. When you
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Speaker 2: accept what someone else is trying to make of you,
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Speaker 2: you have to say, I'm going to throw this caveat in.
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Speaker 2: I believe that even as Christians, if we want God
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Speaker 2: and we pray for him to just come down and
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Speaker 2: take complete control and make us into a puppet, so
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Speaker 2: to speak, so that every action we do is his action,
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Speaker 2: I don't think that's what he's after. I think that
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Speaker 2: he wants us to mature and we become like who
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Speaker 2: we study and who we mimic our idols, so to speak.
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Speaker 2: So if we're spending time understanding God, the true picture
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Speaker 2: of God, then that's how He is open to encourage
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Speaker 2: us to change, and our mind chemistry has changed gradually.
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Speaker 2: You know. He takes the stony heart and gives us
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Speaker 2: a heart of flesh. But if we're making a list
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Speaker 2: and trying to do all of these things to change ourselves,
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Speaker 2: we're never going to get there. For one thing, but
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Speaker 2: that person that lives in a scenario of abuse day
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Speaker 2: after day after day after day, it does change the
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Speaker 2: chemistry and the brain, which affects the body. Illness probably
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Speaker 2: will happen. And I'm sure you've heard stories of people
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Speaker 2: who really truly just wanted to die because they wanted
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Speaker 2: to get out of it. Your heart goes out to victims.
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Speaker 3: Okay, voice recorder on mm hmm. This is Kim again
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Speaker 3: with my daily diary for health class. I'm supposed to
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Speaker 3: say what I did today to keep healthy. Well, Today,
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Speaker 3: I slept. No, I didn't sleep during the day because
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Speaker 3: I was at school and my teachers don't like students
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Speaker 3: sleeping in class. No, I didn't sleep during lunch break
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Speaker 3: because today was curry rice day and I love curry rice.
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Speaker 3: And no, I didn't sleep during band practice because I
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Speaker 3: had a clarinet solo and my band teacher knows the
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Speaker 3: difference between a clarinet and snoring, although sometimes my clarinet
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Speaker 3: sounds very much like snoring. I slept last night. I
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Speaker 3: went to bed early and didn't wake up until my
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Speaker 3: brother Carlos ran into the wall this morning. He does
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Speaker 3: that a lot, especially when he's playing with our dog Alexander.
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Speaker 3: No one can sleep through that. Sleeping is important to
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Speaker 3: my health because if I don't get a good night's sleep,
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Speaker 3: I'm all tired and grouchy. The next day, I can't
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Speaker 3: concentrate in school, and my grades go down. This makes
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Speaker 3: my mom and dad upset because I'm supposed to be
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Speaker 3: the smart one in the family. Carlos could be the
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Speaker 3: smart one in the family if he'd stop running into
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Speaker 3: walls to make sure I get a good night's sleep.
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Speaker 3: I relax in the evening and don't do stuff that
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Speaker 3: would keep me awake, like eating a lot of food
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Speaker 3: or extra very hard. Right before I go to bed,
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Speaker 3: I read a book or listen to my favorite music
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Speaker 3: for a while, then I say good night to everyone
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Speaker 3: and drift off to dreamland. I love sleeping. As a
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Speaker 3: matter of fact, that's what I'm going to do right now.
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Speaker 3: Good night.
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Speaker 1: God has given us everything we need to be healthy
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Speaker 1: inside and out. During Creation Week, he established a health
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Speaker 1: plan for every creature on Earth. To learn more about
13:27
Speaker 1: healthy living and about the God who created us, all
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Speaker 1: go to kidsbibleinfo dot com. That's kids bibleinfo dot com.
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Speaker 1: This program was brought to you by the Children's Ministries
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Speaker 1: Department of the General Conference of Seventh Day Evanists. Welcome
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Speaker 1: back to the program. I'm your host, Charles Mills right
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Speaker 1: here with Johnny Lauren. She has recently retired from her
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Speaker 1: chosen profession of ophthalmology and is now a member of
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Speaker 1: the domestic violence Response team at Southern Adventist University. She
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Speaker 1: speaks at churches on the subject and has recently written
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Speaker 1: a series of study lessons on domestic violence within church families,
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Speaker 1: which may shock a lot of people, but that's exactly
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Speaker 1: what's going on. The numbers are about the same between
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Speaker 1: unchurched and churched. Okay, let's talk about the domestic violence
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Speaker 1: response team there at Southern Johnny, what is that organization
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Speaker 1: and how can people take advantage of what they have
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Speaker 1: to offer.
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Speaker 2: This committee started, I'm thinking five six years ago. I
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Speaker 2: was actually helping doctor Jennings introduce his book Could it
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Speaker 2: be this simple on the mind? And how God designed
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Speaker 2: it to be used at the Christian Writers' Association.
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Speaker 1: That's doctor Timothy Jennings, who is a Christian psychiatrist.
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Speaker 2: Yes, I think you've interviewed him.
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Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, And I.
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Speaker 2: Would recommend that book to everyone, of course. But I
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Speaker 2: met doctor drum she and her husband were helping as
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Speaker 2: well at that convention, and we just got a quainted
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Speaker 2: and she said, how would I like to be on
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Speaker 2: her committee? And it was small then, maybe four of us,
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Speaker 2: I don't know, and it's grown to probably ten or
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Speaker 2: twelve now, pastors and professionals, nurses, you name it, and
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Speaker 2: we really have a great group. And again the research,
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Speaker 2: a lot of that research was done even before I
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Speaker 2: got started in it. But we did interview forty women
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Speaker 2: who responded because doctor Drumm had written an article in
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Speaker 2: the Review our church magazine and they wanted to be
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Speaker 2: a part of this research, and so we did interviews,
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Speaker 2: recording them and then making reports with names changed. Of course,
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Speaker 2: and in the lessons that I have done, there will
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Speaker 2: be some of those stories with names changed, and it
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Speaker 2: really helps to bring it home when you see what
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Speaker 2: actually is happening in those homes. The committee then has
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Speaker 2: branched out. We have started a newsletter, We get calls
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Speaker 2: from people, and we may time to walk through situations
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Speaker 2: with folks as they are trying to decide what to do.
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Speaker 2: A first responder never fixes the problem. They can't take
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Speaker 2: over the control. We don't want to take over the
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Speaker 2: control of that person who's been controlled way long enough
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Speaker 2: in an abusive situation. What we can do is encourage,
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Speaker 2: let them know, just as any first responder would do
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Speaker 2: and say I am so sorry you're having to go
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Speaker 2: through this. They die for someone to listen to believe them.
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Speaker 2: They've gone to pastors sometimes and the pastor might say, unfortunately,
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Speaker 2: you know, I really just don't believe this because this
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Speaker 2: person's my head elder and I've never even heard them
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Speaker 2: say a bad word. So you know, you just need
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Speaker 2: to go home and pray and be a better wife.
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Speaker 2: That's changing, and I'm encouraged by that, just greatly encouraged
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Speaker 2: by the response we're getting from pastors and some that
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Speaker 2: are on our team are helping in that area as well,
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Speaker 2: out in a lot of different ways. And as I say,
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Speaker 2: we're working with the North American Division to have some
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Speaker 2: conferences and training. Doctor Drum really goes all over the
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Speaker 2: world and goes to seminars and speaks on this subject.
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Speaker 2: Articles are being written, and at camp meetings sometimes we have,
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Speaker 2: you know, some sessions, and then we are speaking at
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Speaker 2: churches as well and giving training programs sometimes in the
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Speaker 2: afternoon after the main service. So it's growing exponentially and
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Speaker 2: I'm excited about it.
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Speaker 1: Well, so am i. Johnny. Let's let our audience know
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Speaker 1: where they can get a hold of this valuable resource.
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Speaker 1: So where on the web can they go to find
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Speaker 1: information on the topic we're talking about today.
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Speaker 2: Okay, if you put in SDA Abuse Response dot org,
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Speaker 2: that should take you to the website of our committee.
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Speaker 1: All right, that's SDAs in Seventh Day AB and this
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Speaker 1: s DA Abuse Response dot org. SDA Abuse Response dot
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Speaker 1: org all very good derelict information and more resources. Let's
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Speaker 1: continue now, Johnny Lauren, our topic this is not comfortable
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Speaker 1: to talk about because who wants to think that domestic
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Speaker 1: violence is so prevalent in church families. Is there hope?
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Speaker 1: Has the organization seen people whose lives have changed, abusers
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Speaker 1: who stop being abusers? Is this possible to happen?
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Speaker 2: Well, we can look in the Bible and read about Paul.
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Speaker 2: From Saul to Paul. He was abusing the Christians greatly
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Speaker 2: and God was able to get his attention. Now you
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Speaker 2: might call that abuse when he knocked him on the
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Speaker 2: ground with a heavy light. Probably felt abuse you for
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Speaker 2: a little bit. But sometimes you know, things have to
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Speaker 2: get our attention, just like when a wife sets a
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Speaker 2: healthy boundary for a husband this far and no further. Yes,
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Speaker 2: the abuser can be healed, but it doesn't happen very often, unfortunately,
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Speaker 2: And a lot of it is because that person has
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Speaker 2: just never had a chance to have the education it
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Speaker 2: takes to When I say education, I'm not talking it
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Speaker 2: might be someone with a PhD. I'm not talking that kind.
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Speaker 2: But information about how abuse works or how God views them.
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Speaker 2: As we've talked about along the way, they have to
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Speaker 2: want to change, they have to have a reason to change.
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Speaker 2: And more than that, it takes time. It takes a
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Speaker 2: tremendous amount of perhaps professional help and of course spiritual
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Speaker 2: help to get there.
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Speaker 1: Let's talk now for the remainder of the program about
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Speaker 1: preventing it all together. If there is a dating situation,
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Speaker 1: a girl is going out with a guy, are there
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Speaker 1: any signs that that girl should look for that is
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Speaker 1: sort of an indication that there may be abuse down
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Speaker 1: the road with this person.
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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and I'll tell you I'm loaded for bear
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Speaker 2: here because I just wish that our young people could
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Speaker 2: all have this training. Here's just a few things that
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Speaker 2: are very important. If you have someone who is moving
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Speaker 2: right into that relationship faster than you really want to,
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Speaker 2: and they're very possessive, you can just hear the young
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Speaker 2: girl saying, oh, he must really love me because he
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Speaker 2: doesn't want anybody else around me. They may even keep
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Speaker 2: that partner from their friends or their family, and somehow
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Speaker 2: that false desire, you know, the desire to be loved
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Speaker 2: so completely, makes that look good. At times, they may
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Speaker 2: push the partner into a sexual relationship when the other
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Speaker 2: partner does not want to anger displeasure at how things
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Speaker 2: are done. Years ago, i dated someone. My mother said
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Speaker 2: to me, on the side, he can make you look
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Speaker 2: like two cents waiting for change. There you go. Non
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Speaker 2: respect for parents of the opposite sex, or respect for
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Speaker 2: their own parents. You know, look closely at how they
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Speaker 2: treat their mother, their sisters, their father, lack of responsibility
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Speaker 2: in any level of their life or relationship, difficulty telling
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Speaker 2: the truth, cruelty to animals, children or peers. One thing
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Speaker 2: that abusers use is if you don't behave the way
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Speaker 2: I want you to, I will hurt your favorite pet,
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Speaker 2: critical or vindictive actions. Watch closely at people who are
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Speaker 2: and this doesn't mean we're judging them, but we have
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Speaker 2: to be wise as a serpent and harmless as dove.
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Speaker 2: Is that how that goes when we're choosing a mate.
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Speaker 2: If someone is highly critical of others, there's probably a
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Speaker 2: lot of fear in their own lives that they don't
21:56
Speaker 2: measure up, and they're having to use these techniques to
21:59
Speaker 2: make themselves feel better. One that really comes home to
22:03
Speaker 2: me is improper use of Bible texts or Christian ideas.
22:07
Speaker 2: If they're beating you over the head with it, which
22:10
Speaker 2: they may have had done to them as they were younger,
22:12
Speaker 2: that's something to watch for, and anything uncomfortable on a
22:16
Speaker 2: continuing basis, if it doesn't feel good to you, you
22:18
Speaker 2: better take a look. It's not going to get better.
22:21
Speaker 2: You can't change that person or fix them or make
22:25
Speaker 2: them better once you've signed that marriage certificate. It just
22:29
Speaker 2: doesn't work.
22:31
Speaker 1: Johnny. Your series that you've written Bible study guides on
22:35
Speaker 1: this topic, where can people get a copy of that
22:38
Speaker 1: and enjoy the years of information that you've put in there.
22:41
Speaker 2: The study is called Abuse in My Church and you
22:45
Speaker 2: can go to come and reason dot com and there
22:49
Speaker 2: will be a link to those lessons. They will be
22:52
Speaker 2: free to anyone who uses them. They will be in
22:54
Speaker 2: a form that can be printed off and can be
22:57
Speaker 2: used any way you want to. You know, I would
23:00
Speaker 2: highly suggest someone make copies, take them to your pastor
23:03
Speaker 2: and say, you know, this is a growing wave of
23:07
Speaker 2: helping our own church members. Let's quit just taking pot
23:11
Speaker 2: luck to people who have cancer, which is very important,
23:14
Speaker 2: or who had a car wreck, but let's help these
23:16
Speaker 2: people that we've gotten into our church but are hurting
23:20
Speaker 2: in secrecy. Pastor, would you be willing to take these
23:24
Speaker 2: lessons and study them? And then I'd be happy to
23:27
Speaker 2: lead a group of first responders so that we can
23:29
Speaker 2: get the message out to people and be there for
23:32
Speaker 2: them if they need help.
23:34
Speaker 1: Covidreason dot com is the website for that very good
23:37
Speaker 1: Johnny Lauren. She is a member of the domestic violence
23:40
Speaker 1: Response team at Southern Aviage University and Chattanooga, Tennessee. Johnny,
23:43
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us today. Appreciate it.
23:46
Speaker 1: Thank you, Charles and listener until next time. This is
23:49
Speaker 1: Charles Mills for doctor James Markham inviting you to remain
23:52
Speaker 1: heart wise. Goodbye everyone, Thank you for joining us today
24:01
Speaker 1: on Heartwise. If you'd like more information on how to
24:04
Speaker 1: build and maintain optimum physical, mental, and spiritual health, log
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Speaker 1: our web address is Heartwisemanistries dot org.