Latest / Learned the Hard Way with Kier Gaines / EP 26: The Hard Part Is Admitting It’s Not Working.

Transcript

EP 26: The Hard Part Is Admitting It’s Not Working. · Learned the Hard Way with Kier Gaines

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, what's up, y'all? Quick heads up before we get
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: into this conversation. This episode includes discussions of suicide, suicidal thoughts,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: and self-harm. Please take care of yourself while listening. And
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: if those topics feel too close right now, it's completely
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: fine and okay to skip this episode or come back
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: to it another time. Check out the show notes so
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: you can see exactly where that part of the episode
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: is in case you want to skip it. Remember, everything
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: that we discuss in this episode is not clinical advice.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: This is not therapy. I am not your therapist. Please,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: please go seek the help of a licensed professional mental
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: health counselor, psychologist, or psychiatrist. Thank you. Welcome to Learn
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: the Hard Way. My name is Q Gaines. We talk
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: about purpose. We talk about pressure. We talk about what
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: it actually takes to become a full, comprehensive man. Hey,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: what's good, y'all? Welcome back to another episode of Learn
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: the Hard Way with me, your host. My name is
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Kier Gaines. I am your favorite therapist. I'm also a son.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: I'm a husband. I'm a father. And I'm a person
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: who really enjoys figuring stuff out. I think that curiosity
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: is one of the greatest gifts that we have and
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: also one of the most underutilized ones. So that's why
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I love episodes like the one that we're doing today.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: And today is a mailbag episode. So if you've never
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: listened to the pod before, first off, welcome. How your
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: mama and them doing? You all right? Everything cool? Welcome, man. Welcome.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: If you've never been here before, let me explain to
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: you what a mailbag episode is. A mailbag episode is
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: when we take the questions that the community sends to
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: us on LearnTheHardWayPod.com. People send us voice messages asking questions
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: about challenges they're dealing with, struggles they're facing, and Just
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: anything that's going on in their lives that they want
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: to be better or different. And we talk about them.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I necessarily give advice, but I'm
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: here to give perspective, which leads me to this point
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: right here. Even though I am a therapist, I am
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: not your therapist in the things that I share in
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: these mailbag episodes. And honestly, in all of our episodes,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: do not substitute therapy.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: This is not a therapy session. I am not giving
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: you clinical advice here. By any stretch of the imagination,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: if you are facing any of these challenges, I strongly,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: strongly encourage you to go and seek the assistance of
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional, which I am. But I'm
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: not your licensed mental health professional. You got to go
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: see somebody and do a one on one specifically for you.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: But there's so much to be learned in hearing what
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: people are going through and just having a conversation about it.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Because you may not always get to the solution that
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: you want to get to right then and there, but
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: you may spark a hot moment. There may be something
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: that happens in your thought processes that gives you an
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: idea to do something differently. And I think that doing
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: something differently is a dope catalyst toward getting better, getting
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: closer toward healing, get closer toward revealing what is the
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: source of your deepest pain or your sticking points. or
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: the things that you're just really struggling with in life.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: So this is a really valuable space. And I appreciate
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: all of y'all, man. Make sure that you go to
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: learn the hard way pod.com. Leave me a voice message.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: And you never know, man, I might just, might just
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: play it here on the pod. And we might just
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: come to some type of brilliant realization together. I do
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: want to get something off real quick. Now that's my,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: that's my, uh, my van Latham impression. I gotta get
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: something off real quick. Um, You know, I was on
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: a Today Show a few weeks ago and they said
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: parenting expert care gains. And every time somebody calls me
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: an expert, I don't know, I tense up a little
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: bit because I don't know what that means. I don't
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: know what that means. I don't know what it means
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: to be an expert. Does it mean I had experiential knowledge? Sure.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Does it mean I have the education? Sure. Does it
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: mean I have the training? Sure. Does it mean I
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: have all three? Quite possibly. But to me, to call
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: yourself an expert, In my mind, at least says that
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: you have all the answers. And if you ever expect me, me,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Keir Gaines, to have all the answers, I am going
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: to always disappoint you because I do not. Nor do
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: I want to always have all the answers. But I
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: think there's something really valuable in raising your hand and
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: admitting that you're still learning me. I'm still learning. I'm
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: still making mistakes. I'm still doing it, overcoming. And I
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: bring that here. So that we can we can kind
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: of collaborate on what's going on and figure something out together.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: That's what a good therapist does. They don't always have
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: all the answers, but they always down to figure something
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: out together. And that is the genesis of what we're
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: doing here on this mailbag episode. So with no further ado,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: y'all ready to get into it? Y'all ready to get
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: into this episode?
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: All right. Let's do it. All right. So today, I
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: don't know how many of these we're going to get through.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Just to be honest with you, sometimes your boy gets
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: long winded and we can get through like two or
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: three of them. Sometimes we can get through five. I
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: don't think we ever got through more than four of them.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: And I don't I don't think today is any exception.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know if we're going to get through any
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: more than four. But it's not how many we get
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: through is how well we get through the ones we have.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: All right. So let's play the first one. We're going
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: to listen to it together and then I'm going to react.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: What do you do when all the things that you're
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: supposed to do don't work? I've been in therapy for
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: 15 years. I've had a dozen different therapists.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: I am medicated. I meditate.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I journal.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: I work out. I have friends and community.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: But I have not gone a day without thinking about
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: suicide since I was a little kid. And For context,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: I have ADHD and autism and borderline personality disorder and
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: combat-related PTSD and CPTSD with an ACE score of 9.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: It's been fun, let me tell you.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: And.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: I just, I can't, I don't trust myself.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: I don't trust my brain.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: I don't trust my thoughts or my feelings or my
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: instincts because they all seem to just lead me down
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: bad paths. And when I try to do the opposite
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: of that, it also ends up leading me down a
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: bad path. And like, I can't, because I can't trust myself,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: I can't trust anybody else. And I can't, I can't
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: get any of this, this out. I can't even like,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: the only reason I can even say this now is
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: because I'm just talking at a phone and I don't,
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: I don't, I don't know what to do because I'm,
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: I'm running out of options and it's ruining my fucking life.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: And it's, I just feel like such a failure as
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: a man and a husband and a father, like help.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: That even in the sound of his voice, I can
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: hear the urgency. I can hear the dare I say
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: desperation for something to alleviate the pain that he's feeling
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: right now. OK, so there's a lot that was shared here.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Let me kind of go through this. Y'all bear with
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: me while I sift through this in real time. I
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: want to start by just saying thank you, man. Thank you,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: because I can't imagine what it took for you to
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: record that. And for you to say that out loud
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: and in hearing what you said, you said you've been
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: in therapy for 15 years. You say you've had a
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: dozen therapists in that 15 years. You say that you're
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: medicated right now. Really interested to know what medication he's on.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: You say that you meditate, which they always say that
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: you meditate like you have to do that. That's that's what.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Supports wellness, right? You're supposed to meditate and you're journaling.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: You're supposed to journal. You're supposed to work out and
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: you're working out and you're supposed to make friends and
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: have community. You're doing all those things and you're saying
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: these things don't seem to be working for me. But
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: I also heard something that I don't know if you
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: intended on saying. Most people will probably hear everything you
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: said and think none of it worked. But I don't know.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: I hear something a little bit different. I hear somebody
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: who's been carrying a tremendous amount of pain for a
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: very long time and somehow they're still here. And that
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: to me sounds like a gigantic win. It does not
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: alleviate your pain in the moment, but that sounds like
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: such a win. And I can see how you can,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: even with that, even holding that, you can still feel
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: like a failure. And I say all the time, feeling
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: like a failure and being a failure are two different things.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: But if you feel like one, it's hard to be
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: convinced that you're not one, even when you're not. Now, one,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: I think that if you came to me for therapy,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: to be completely honest, I would not. I don't think
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: I'd be qualified to help you. I think I would
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: have to refer you to someone else. And this is why.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: When someone has a lot of different diagnosis, it doesn't
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: necessarily mean that they're more broken. You know, you need
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: about five different things that you're currently dealing with at
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: the same time. And it doesn't mean that you're more
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: broken because all these things are happening. Sometimes it just
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: means that your experiences are really complex and they're so
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: complex that one diagnosis can't fully explain everything that you're
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: living with. That that just. that just doesn't sound like
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: a failure to me now i don't want to minimize
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: what you're saying and you said that you haven't gone
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: a single day without thinking about suicide since you were
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: a little kid suicide is something that's very tricky to
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: try to talk about in a medium like this, cause
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: you and I are face to face. I don't have
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: a history of what you've gone through. I think you
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: said you had an ACE score of nine. If I'm
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: thinking ACEs, like advanced childhood experience, maybe I didn't hear
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: that right. But that tells me that you, you have
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: a history of challenging and traumatic things that have happened
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: to you that are piling on top of each other.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: And if you've gone that long, With suicidality playing in
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: the background, that's an exhausting way to live, which I'm
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: sure you know. And I'm really glad that you said
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: it out loud. I'm so glad that you said it
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: out loud instead of carrying it by yourself. But there's
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: one thing I wonder, though. I wonder when you say
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: you feel like a failure as a husband. I don't
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: know if you say husband, but you say you feel
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: like a failure as a father and a failure as
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: a man. I wonder what goal you've been measuring yourself
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: up against. And I wonder if that's the right goal,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: because I've the clients I've had who've dealt with similar challenges.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: The goal is to not experience the suicidal thoughts anymore.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: And that is that's a beautiful goal. It's a bit
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: of an idealistic goal sometimes because the measure of how
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: much you're healing or how much you're progressing in your
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: treatment isn't whether or not the feelings are still there.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: It's how you're able to move around carrying those feelings
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: with you. It's what you counter those feelings with. It's
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: the strategies that you deploy to move further away from
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: those feelings. It's the community you bring in to share
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: what you're going through. I'm sure at some point in
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: this response, I'm going to mention a safety plan. It's
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: you utilizing your safety plan. I hope that your therapist
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: has developed a safety plan for you. And if you
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: don't know what a safety plan is, when people experience
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: suicidal thoughts or suicidal ideation or anything within that vein,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: I'm trying not to nerd out on y'all too bad,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: but it's a plan to realize, to recognize when the
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: symptoms are there. that you may not typically be able
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: to see is when the symptoms are changing. It's when
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: you're moving from thinking about it to plotting it, to
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: attempting it. It helps you know when you're on that
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: continuum and what to do when you notice that you're
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: starting to slide, who to reach out to, who to call,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: what resources to utilize. I wonder if you have a
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: safety plan. I wonder if anybody has built that for you. Now,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: maybe you've been, I don't know, perhaps you've been asking yourself,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: why haven't these thoughts gone away? And I think that's
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: a totally reasonable question to answer yourself. But in my mind,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: at least the better question is what has allowed me
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: to survive this long? Because for somebody with ADHD, autism,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: what did you say? Borderline personality disorder, combat PTSD and
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: complex PTSD. Your brain has learned that danger is always
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: around the next corner. That's just what your brain has
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: learned over time. And when you say I don't trust
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: my brain, which aligns with everything I know about borderline
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: personality disorder, I believe you. I believe that you don't
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: trust your brain and your own thoughts. But here's the thing, though.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Not trusting your brain doesn't mean that your brain is
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: necessarily telling the truth, if that makes sense. Because in
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: a condition like yours, I can see how trauma can
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: make every feeling better. feel like evidence. And it can
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: convince you that because the thought is loud, that the
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: thought is accurate. And those aren't necessarily the same thing.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: But when you're dealing with all of that, you just
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: don't have time to separate that, man. And another thing
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: that stood out to me is you called yourself, like
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: you said, a failure. And I want to push back
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: on that just a little bit. A failure doesn't spend
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: 15 years in therapy trying to figure out what works
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: for them. A failure doesn't keep showing up in therapy.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: A failure doesn't deliberately build community. A failure doesn't ask
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: for help. Those are things people do when they're desperate
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: to stay alive. And to me, that's that's a different thing.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Another thought that occurred to me is who are you seeing?
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Because I told you in the very beginning of this,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: I am a LPC. I'm a licensed professional counselor. I
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: am a think of me as the general doctor of therapists.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: What you are dealing with is what we call comorbidity.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: And that's when you have multiple psychiatric or mental health
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: conditions compiled on top of each other and you experiencing
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: them at the same time. There are many therapists who
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: might be well-meaning, but they may not be qualified to
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: walk you through that. And not everyone is going to
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: say they're not qualified. They're going to be interested in
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: pulling you through a treatment plan. They're going to be
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: interested in helping you as much as they can. But,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: you know, intent and capability are two completely different animals.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: And you can have the intent and not have the
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: capability to help. I wonder if you've seen a psychiatrist.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: I feel like a psychiatrist would be a really good
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: move right now. A psychiatrist, for those who don't know,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: is like a mix of what a psychologist does and
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: what a medical doctor does. A psychiatrist will be better
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: able to see if the diagnosis you have may need refinement,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: because even if you got if you get diagnosed with
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: PTSD 15 years ago. As you age and as you grow,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: the things about that diagnosis that might need to change,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: things about your treatment plan that might need to change.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: And if you're going from therapist to therapist, that concerns
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: me a little bit about the continuity of care that
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: you're receiving. Sometimes your medications need adjustment. You might need
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: a different dosage. Maybe you need more. Maybe you need less.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: I've had clients who are on an MAOI for antidepressants
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: and come to find out it doesn't work for them anymore.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: They need an SSRI. They need something a little different.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Sometimes your medication needs to change and you need somebody
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: who understands that. Sometimes the therapies might need to change.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: It can go from specialized trauma treatment to DBT. And
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: if the therapist isn't steeped in that, it may not
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: be helpful for you. Or sometimes newer interventions might need
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: to be considered. Things change all the time the way
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: that we approach clients. And I just don't know if
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: you're getting the treatment you need for the things that
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: are going on with you. There's nothing that I can
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: say in this moment that would immediately alleviate what you're
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: going through. But what I don't want to do is
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: just validate the experience and give you my perspective without
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: also giving you some resources. because I feel like that's
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: really necessary right now. So I have a couple of
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: resources for you that I want to share. And I'm
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: also put this in my show notes. So if you
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: listen on Spotify or Apple or wherever you pod, just
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: peep the show notes. And I will have these available
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: for you if you feel the same way, if you're
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: going through the same thing or something similar, or if
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: you know somebody who is. All right. So the first
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: resource I want to give is the 988 Suicide and
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Crisis Lifeline. You know, you can call or text 988
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: or You can use the chat and that's nine eight eight.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: What is a nine eight eight lifeline dot org? That's
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: nine eight eight lifeline dot org. Also, you mentioned that
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: you were you have some combat PTSD, which lets me
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: know that you're a veteran. So there's a veteran crisis
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: line as well. You could dial nine eight eight and
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: then press one. Or you can text 838255. That's 838255.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Or you can use the chat at veteranscrisisline.net. And they
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: serve veterans and service members, guard, reserve. And there's absolutely
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: no VA enrollment required for that. All right. Next, there's
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: a crisis text line. And you could text the word HOME, H-O-M-E,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: to the number 741741. So, You're texting home H-O-M-E to 741-741.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: All right. Now, also, if you're finding a psychiatrist or
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: ongoing care, because that is a concern to me, just
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: the continuity of care here doesn't seem to be there.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: There's a SAMHSA National Helpline. That's 1-800-662-4357. It's free. It's confidential.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: It's there 24-7 for you. If you don't trust yourself,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: I think that is an indicator to start to get
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: resources together so that you could start reaching out and
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: getting some help outside of the bubble that already exists
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: for you. Also, there's findtreatment.gov. It's like this anonymous locator
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: for mental health treatment and mental health treatment providers. And
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: it goes by your zip code. So you can put
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: your zip code in. You can find somebody in your area.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: There's also the VA mental health services, which is mentalhealth.va.gov.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: I always say use that as a baseline, especially if
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: you're a veteran, it's there for you. Mentalhealthva.gov. I know
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: people have differing experiences with the VA. Sometimes it works
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: really well for them. Sometimes it doesn't, but you have
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: to reach out. And lastly, the NAMI. And the NAMI
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: helpline is 1-800-950-6264. It's available weekdays, Monday through Friday from
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. And it's
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: really for help navigating options and peer support. You know,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: we could have easily not done this question because our
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: society scoots around suicide, which is very odd to me.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: We don't say it. We don't say the word, which
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: I think is counterproductive and nonsensical. You can't solve something
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: that you're continuously running from. You're not helping the people
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: by not saying it. So I'm really glad that you
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: brought this here. But if we're always told that meditation
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: and journaling and all these things are supposed to work
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: and they do work. until they don't and if it's
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: not working for you it doesn't necessarily mean that something
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: is wrong with you it just means that this medicine
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: is not effective for the ailment that you have in
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: this moment it may not be you it might be
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: the approach so uh man thank you so much for
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: for bringing that here definitely sending you all of the
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: love and warmth and strength bro like keep fighting Keep going.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid of a new approach
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: when the thing that you've been doing for a while
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: just simply is not working anymore. I think it's okay
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: to try something different. Sending you luck, well wishes, and
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: good fortune on your journey to wellness, man. For sure. Man,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: that started off heavy. It started off heavy, but you
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: know what? Life is heavy and it's inescapable. Sometimes we
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: can't just, you know, we can't just tap dance around
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: these things. And when someone needs help and they feel
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: like they're slipping and they're falling and I wouldn't even
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: be the right therapist for this individual, man. But hopefully
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: he can find what he needs. And if you relate
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: to that story and you relate to a sense of
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: hopelessness that's in that direction, you can find what you need.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: You know, sometimes getting better isn't getting rid of the
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: thing that we're struggling with the most. Sometimes getting better
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: is learning different ways to attack it so that we
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: can still continue going, still continue going on. All right,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: let's move to another one. We have another question from
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: one of our viewers here and let's listen to it
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: together and let's talk about it.
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: I just would love your insight in regards to my relationship. Obviously,
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to be able to give you everything
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: within 90 seconds, but the brief summary I can give
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: you is just last night I asked her just what
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: she wants on my way to work because she hasn't
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: been really talkative or we've just been distant. And whenever
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: there's a conflict, we're not really resolving it. And I
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: don't feel like I'm being heard on my end. And
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: then she also feels like we can't give each other
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: what we want. When I did ask her, because when
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: I asked her, is this what she wants? She said,
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: I don't know. And I'm like, well, you're going to
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: have to be more specific because I'm trying to understand
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: where your head's at. And she said, I feel like
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: we both can't give each other what we want. Like,
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry I can't be there for you mentally. She
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: was saying what she was saying. And I said, I
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: understand that. But what is it that you need for
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: me to feel how for you to be feeling how
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: you feel? And she's even telling me. she don't know. Like,
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: I'm not getting no clear answer to even try to
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: take action. And if I'm being honest, I would love to,
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: for us to go to our couples counseling just to
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: try to resolve it because I want this to work
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: and I will do what's necessary to make it work.
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: But she, I also want to make sure she's want
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: this too. And if I'm being honest with you, I'm
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: just really, I'm very emotional and like, don't know what
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: to like really try to make up the situation because
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: I was in jail for three and a half months
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: I just got out two months ago and I just
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: started getting back on my feet so I'm not able
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: to do much but she feels like we're starting all
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: over again since I've been out and I'm like technically
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: we are because I lost everything behind that time so
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: I'm really building myself from ground zero and I don't
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: think she's really understanding the obstacles I'm facing. And it's
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: a lot, but that's a lot going on. But that's
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: just a brief summary of hoping that you can give
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: me some type of insight on it.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. OK, let's talk about it. So first off, thank you, man.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Thank you for trusting me with that. That's in incarceration.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Changes family dynamics in ways that I don't think we
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: talk about enough. So I appreciate you trusting me with that.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: And also, man, I need you to hear something. You
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: asked your partner, what do you want or what do
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: you need? And her answer was, I don't know, which
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: is I'm sure frustrating, but still a very reasonable answer. Now,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: most people will probably hear that and think she's avoiding
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: a question or she's not communicating or she doesn't care
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: enough to tell me. And I'm not saying you think that,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: but it wouldn't be that. I don't think that's an
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: unreasonable response in and of itself either. But I don't
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: I don't hear those things when I hear that. I
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: hear somebody. who genuinely may not know. I talk about
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: this in my book. It all starts when you do.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: I talk about this all the time. There is a gap,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: a messy middle that adults experience. It's like this part
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: of adult development that goes under discussed. And it's this
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: space in between who you've always been and how you
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: handle those things, what you've needed, what made you feel better,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: what made you feel safe, what made you feel heard,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: what made you feel a sense of belonging, like all
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: these things that are part of our adult identity. We
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: move from that, the person we've always been and how
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: we always done things, and we move into the person
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: that we're becoming. And those things don't always work the
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: same way. The things that made you feel good back
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: then don't make you feel good anymore. The things that
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: calm you down don't soothe you anymore. The things that
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: showed you that you're responsible just it doesn't it doesn't
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: hit the same way. It doesn't have the same bite
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: as we move on through life. And we don't always
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: know how to scratch that itch. So that may be
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: a legitimate thing. She just she may not know. And
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: I think that's what I could see how that would
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: be added to the to the confusion here. But just
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: give me a second. Let me introduce this idea that
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: people don't. People don't often know what hurts them. Well, no,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: let me rephrase it. People do. People can understand what
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: hurts them. way before they know what they need or
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: how to go about doing something about that. And one
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: of the hardest things about relationships is the fact that
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: we assume people know what they need. You hear it
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: all the time. You could see it all the time online.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: I hear it all the time in therapy. And it's
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: a bit of a ideological fallacy, if you will. That's
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: just not the way that people operate. I'm thinking about it.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking... I'm thinking about it now. And you said
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: a few things. One of the things you said is
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: I'm starting from zero, man, brother. That's real. That's real.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Three and a half months can change somebody's finances. It
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: could change your confidence. It could change your routines. It
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: could change your opportunities, all of that. And you're trying
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: to rebuild your life. And that to me deserves some compassion.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: And also. Your rebuilding doesn't stop her from grieving what changed.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Does that make any sense? Like y'all are experiencing this
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: grief in this tumultuous period in your relationship at the
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: same time. And some of this stuff belongs to you
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: and it's yours to handle and deal with and fix
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: and correct and remedy. And some of the stuff belongs
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: to her and it's her job to handle and fix
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: and correct and remedy. And then there's the collective. There's
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: things that have to be a group project between the
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: two of you all that you collectively fix and remedy
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: and handle. And that's nuance. Because all of those things
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: can be true at the same time. And I'm not
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: invalidating your struggle. But I also don't want to invalidate hers.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: You feel me? When I hear you talk, I hear
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: that that both of y'all are trying to solve different problems.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: because you're asking, Hey, tell me what to do so
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: I can fix this. And she may be saying, I
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: don't know if this relationship feels the way I need
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: it to anymore. Or I don't know if I'm over,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: I call it an uncomfortable truth in my book. I
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: don't know if I'm over the thing that happened to me.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Cause you know, going to jail happened to you, but
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: it also happened to her. And those are Those are
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: not the same conversations. And I wonder if you all
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: are trying to condense this into one conversation when it's
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: actually two. One is about behavior. And the other is
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: about uncertainty. And here's what I learned from doing couples
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: counseling and couples counseling in a situation like this. That
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: environment is it's not the place where she finally gives
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: the answer. You know what I'm saying? Like if you're
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: looking for a couples counselor to be the place where
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: she says the thing, don't know I don't know be
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: careful to not make couples counseling the place where your
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: partner finally tells you what she's been, you know, whether
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: she's staying or what she's been thinking. It doesn't quite
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: come out that way. That could be a lot of pressure.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Couples counseling isn't there to really convince you somebody to
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: do or say a thing necessarily is there to help
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: both of y'all understand what's actually happening in this exchange
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: between y'all so if if i were you i think
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: one question i would instead of asking what do you
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: need i would ask something like just that when did
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: you first start feeling this way when did you first
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: notice that you started feeling this way and i know
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: that's mad therapist therapist that's a therapist question But I
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: ask it that way because people like I said, people
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: don't always identify what they need, but they can remember
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: when things shifted. You know, I can't tell you when
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: when my depression started, but I can tell you what
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: point of my life I was in when I first
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: started experiencing depressive symptoms. You see what I'm saying? So
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: now we're talking about a story instead of demanding a solution.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: And a part of me, bro, also wonders if the
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: solution finder, like how much guilt is behind that? I
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: can't imagine. It sounds like you really care about your relationship.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Sounds like you really care about your partner. And I
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: can't imagine a world where you don't feel a profound
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: sense of guilt. And sometimes when we feel guilt, we
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: rush to solution finder and solution finder is brilliant. It's great.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: It's beautiful. It's beautiful. But the problem with solution finding
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: is sometimes it undermines the emotions in between the checks
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: checking off the list. We took care of that. We
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: took care of that. We took care of that. And
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: it's a logistics conversation. It gets closer to the logistics
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: and further away from feelings. One more thing that's coming
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: to mind, I just kind of thought about this and
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know, this might be my last thought. It
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: might not. Who knows? We'll find out at the same time.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: But sometimes when we are and I'm guessing here, I'm guessing,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: I'm guessing, I'm guessing that you're afraid to lose this person.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: I'm guessing you're afraid to lose this woman in some shape.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: And sometimes when we are scared of losing somebody, man,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: we start interrogating them. You know, like the first 48,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: we start interviewing them. Tell me what you need. Tell
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: me what I should do. Tell me how to fix this.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: And the relationship starts to feel less like a cohesive partnership.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: And it starts to feel more like a job interview
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: where there are these definite touch points that you have
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: to hit in order to meet your goals. And love
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: just love does not work that way. But more importantly,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: partnership does not work that way. Not under those pretenses.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: It's very hard to. to maintain a healthy love ego
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: ecosystem with all of that going on so sometimes the
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: next step isn't really it's not getting another answer sometimes
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: the next step is fostering or creating enough safety in
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: this love environment that you got that the answer can
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: actually show up um And you know what? One more thing.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: I knew that wasn't going to be the last thing.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: I noticed you spent a lot of time telling me
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: why you're struggling. And every reason that you gave me
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: why you're struggling makes complete sense. It really does. But
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: I can't help but notice that I didn't hear a
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: lot of curiosity about what it's been like for her
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: while you've been struggling. And that might be asking a
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: lot of you right now, because damn, when your ship
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: is sinking, You mean I got to look over at
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: the other ship and help them and ask them why
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: this ship is sinking. Like I'm going into the water
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: right now, bro. There are holes at the bottom of
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: my boat and that's all I can think about. But
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: I think that this, this is just something for you
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: to put on because this may be the next step in,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: in you all getting closer and kind of solving this puzzle.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: But I would, I would do one, how much curiosity
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: you have about what it's been like for her. And
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: that's not a criticism. It's just something I noticed that,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: And sometimes when we are in the survival mode, we
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: become so hyper fixated on explaining ourselves that we really
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: stop wondering what the other person has been carrying. And
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: I wonder how true that may be for your situation.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Something to think about. Thank you, man. That was that
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: was powerful. I love the fact, you know, when we
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: first started doing these mailbag episodes, it was all women
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: trying to save their relationships. And hearing these men hop
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: in my DMs or hop in these voice messages and
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: talk and try to find realistic solutions for the problems
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: that they're dealing with in their love lives. It's so reassuring, man.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: I think that men are on the cusp of this
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: brilliant renaissance. We just need more thought leaders in the
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: wellness and emotional space who, you know, ain't on the
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: red pill vibe, who actually trying to make their families
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: and their love lives work. not trying to subjugate folk
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: or make folk feel inferior to it. They just, they
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: just trying to live happy lives and don't have the
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: instruction on what to do next. So man, shout out
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: to y'all. This might be the last one. I think
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: this might be the last one. We're going to do
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: one more voice message and let's listen to it together
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: and let's ponder on it. And then let's talk about it.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Here you go.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: Hey Kier, really appreciate everything you do. And I'm looking
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: forward to reading your book. I have a question for you,
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: which I hope you will be able to answer. I
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: have my mother coming in and living close to me
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: and my wife in about two years. We also have
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: a small child and my mother is moving from overseas
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: and is going to be essentially technically sharing the same household.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: Even though we're hoping to get her a separate place,
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: she will be spending a lot of time in the
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: same household and in our kitchen. My wife has expressed
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: concerns that this would lead to over involvement from her
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: in our family life and potentially also being in the
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: way of our day-to-day relationship. And I appreciate that we
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: need to go through this, but before we really sit
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: down and start working through this and we start seeking
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: counseling just to prepare for it, I was hoping you
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: would give some sort of structure or some sort of
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: main questions that we would want to address before this happens.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: And also mention some sort of boundaries that we should
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: be talking about.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: All right. Excellent, man. Thank you. That's, Oh, this one
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: is something that I actually hear a lot just in
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: terms of our generation. I'm 40. I was born in
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: 86 and our generation, our parents are getting older and
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know why his mom is coming to live
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: with him. But a lot of us are becoming adult
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: caretakers for our parents, for our older siblings. And it's stressful.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: It's a lot. It changes the dynamics. within our family
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: system tremendously. And it's hard to know how to prepare
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: for it. So let me try to address what you've
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: been asking. So in my mind, the conflict, first off,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: I hope that when your wife is voicing these concerns,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: and it sounds like you are, but I hope that
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: you're listening and not necessarily to soothe her worries immediately,
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: but to understand what her concerns are. Because That's that
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: that is an undertaking. Now, also shout out to you
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: for planning two years in advance for this. I think
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: that gives you a tremendous runway to establish some things
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: before your mom actually moves in before she touches down. Now,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: in my mind, the conflict isn't really that mom is
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: moving in, per se. It is the catalyst to the conflict.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: But I think the more immediate conflict is that nobody
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: has yet defined why. Who belongs to which family system?
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: You're not just adding your mom into your house. You're
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: bringing another person with their own thoughts, opinions, ideas, judgment, routines.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: You're bringing them into the way, into the inner workings
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: of your family. You know, think of it as a machine.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: If you have a machine that's intricate and all of
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: the cogs and springs are well oiled and working together
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: and they all depend on each other to work. If
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: you add another mechanism into that machine, That machine doesn't
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: operate the same way. It just doesn't. It doesn't. So
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: I love that you're asking it this far in advance
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: because most people wait until somebody's toothbrush is already in
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: the bathroom before they start having this conversation. They wait
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: until somebody's wearing somebody else's robe or slippers and it's
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: already too far gone. Now, let's reframe this problem a
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: little bit because I wonder if your wife.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Is.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you feel like your wife is saying,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: I don't want your mother around. I don't have enough information.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: That's an assumption. But let's say it is. I don't
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: know if this is going to work out. I don't
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: know if I want her here. No disrespect, but that's
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: complicating what we have going on here. But what I
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: hear is from her, I'm afraid that I won't know
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: where our marriage is going. marriage ends and your family begins,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: especially you being a man and that being your mother.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Oftentimes men have, at least in my experience, being a therapist,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: men have a hard time with the power structure of
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: creating that, that partition between husband and son. where you
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: have to kind of talk to mom and protect your
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: wife from mom and also kind of listen to wife
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: about mom and you got to play the messy middle
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: it's not fun man it's not anything i i wish
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: on anyone but this is going to be a reality
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: so let's let's prepare for it because um i think
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: that's a valid thing to not know where the marriage
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: ends and where the family begins and i think If
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: it's if it comes across as I don't want to
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: hear those are two completely different things. And then you
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: ask about the conversations that you all should have before
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: a parent moves in or even if a parent moves nearby.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: That's brilliant. Let me I'll give you just a couple
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: off the top of my head that I'm thinking about
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: that just popped up when I heard you talk about it.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Number one is what job is your mom coming to do?
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know why she's coming. I don't know if
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: it's health reasons. I don't know if you all need
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: more support at home. I don't know why it is.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: If she's coming from overseas, perhaps there is a distinction
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: between this type of culture that your wife typically lives
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: through the field of and what your mom does. That
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: could be a thing. But what like what does she come?
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: What is the purpose of her coming? What is she
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: coming to do? Is she coming to be grandma? You know,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: is she coming because she is ill? Is she coming
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: because y'all need help with childcare? Is she coming because
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: she's lonely? Is she coming because you feel responsible for her?
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: I think all of these things creates a different relationship
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: with the way that you manage your responsibility to her
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: and your responsibility to your wife. And I think that
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: there needs to be a clear understanding between the two
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: of you all Of what mom is coming here to do.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Another question is who makes the decisions? Real talk. I
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: don't know how your family operates typically, but is it
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: going to be the same once mom gets there? If
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: your mother disagrees with how you raise your child, who
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: makes the decisions? Whose decision wins? But which voice stays predominant?
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: How does the culture in your house change in terms
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: of decision making? And it's not necessarily because you're trying
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: to control anything, but children don't do well sometimes when
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: they're raised by authority of committee. You know, mom says
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: one thing, dad says one thing, grandma says one thing.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: I think you and your wife should start to talk
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: about what decision making looks like when grandma gets here.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: because being respectful to your mom, of course, but your
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: mom also has to fold into the preexisting culture of
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: your home. That's just kind of what it is. The
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: third question I thought about is what belongs to the marriage?
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: And to me, this is probably the most important question.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: What belongs to your marriage? What I mean by that
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: is what conversations stay between y'all as husband and wife?
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: It's not for your mom's ears. It's just y'all two.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: What conversations stay between y'all two? Because it's hard to
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: hide from somebody when they live in your house. They
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: can hear you talking, they hear your conversations. They may
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: feel like they can weigh in on them or give
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: their opinions. Where are y'all standing on that? Where y'all
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: are united front? And that only comes from conversation and discussions.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Which disagreements stay between y'all two? Don't go to mom
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: at all. Does mom get to know when y'all are
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: arguing or when y'all are having a disagreement? Does she
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: get to weigh in? Does she hear about your finances?
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Does she hear about your intimacy? Does she get a
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: vote or does she just get awareness? Don't be in
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: a rush to answer that for me right now. I
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: think that is a thing that you and your wife
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: negotiate over within the next two years. And You see
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: how complicated this is. And I only asked three questions.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Imagine if you all never had this conversation, your mom
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: gets here and now y'all got a problem solved with
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: her there. So, again, I'm glad I got the runway
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: to kind of figure out what this is and how
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: it's going to be before she lands. And one last
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: question that just popped up in my just popped up
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: in my nugget. How will y'all know if if this
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: ain't working? Like if you if your mom being there
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: is not working, how we all know what are going
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: to be. I talked about a safety plan in the
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: beginning of this episode with the man who was experiencing
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: suicidal thoughts and suicidal ideation. What the safety plan is
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: to let you know when something is not working, when
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: you can't see it, they give you waypoints and indicators
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: that this thing is ineffective. So you can see it.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: Even if you can't feel that it's not working, you
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: already have a pre-established list of things, of identifiers that
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: tell you that it's not working. So you can see it,
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: check it off, and you know that something is heading
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: in a direction that you don't want it to. So
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: this is the question that nobody ever asks. How do
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: you know it's not working? Do you wait until you're miserable?
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Do you decide as soon as you see the signs
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: of it? What are the signs that this arrangement needs
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: to change? How will you know? Because if you only
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: talk about the success, if you manage it from the
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: perspective of best case scenario, you won't recognize the failure
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: into it's huge and unmanageable. Just one last, one last,
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: one last thought. I noticed, I noticed something. You asked
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: me what boundaries you should set with your mom. But actually,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: I think the question is, what boundaries do you need
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: to first set between you and your wife? Because if
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: y'all ain't aligned, if you two are not aligned, every
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: boundary with your mom becomes a negotiation. And that's a
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: lot of moving parts at one time. You know, when
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: I'm flying a plane through the air, when I'm a passenger, man,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: I like the wings to be fixed on the plane.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: I like it to be one, one body. If everything
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: flapping and moving around and, and doesn't feel secure and
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: bolted down and well-constructed and in alignment with itself, there's
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: a lack of security that follows. You understand what I'm saying?
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: Families don't just have boundaries, they have doorways. And that
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: means that how does someone enter your parenting? You know
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying? How does someone enter your marriage? How
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: does someone enter your home? Not everybody should have the
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: same access. Not everybody should have the same access. So
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: sometimes boundaries aren't they're not necessarily walls. Sometimes the doors and,
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: you know, even a healthy door has to have somebody
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: there deciding who comes in, when they come in, how
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: long they're going to stay. And I think that's something
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: to think about. Hey, hold on, y'all. Real quick. My
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: very first book, It All Starts When You Do, is
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: available right now. If this podcast has ever helped you,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: I think this book will, too. I want you to
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: just search It All Starts When You Do by Keir Gaines,
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: wherever you get your books. Man, that's these mailbag questions
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: are getting better and better. And not in the sense
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: of getting better, like entertainment value, anything like that. They're
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: getting better in terms of the complexity and how open
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: you all are and how honest, transparent y'all are about
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: what you're dealing with. If you're brave enough to leave
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: a voice message like that, I think that you're a
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: dope person because you have no idea whose mind, whose
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: perspective or who lived experience might be illuminated because you
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: said something. So if if anything in this episode resonated
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: with you, Or if you feel like, man, I got
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: something I need to share, man, go ahead and share
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: with us. Go to learnthehardwaypod.com. We have this thing called
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: Speaker Pipe and you just leave up to a 90
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: second voice message. We comb through them, we listen to
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: them and some of them we will bring to the pod, man,
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: and we'll discuss together. Life is not easy and life
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: is not always fair, but life is always better when
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: you can arrive To the challenges that you're facing, honestly,
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: and in the mode to not just be solution oriented,
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: but to be open about what the solution may look like.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: We have an idea of how to fix things or
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: how to remedy things. And sometimes we cleave the idea,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: even in the face of overwhelming evidence that that junk
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: ain't working no more. And I see this thing in
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: people now, this remarkable level of flexibility that's allowing folks
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: to say, yeah, I thought it was going to look
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: this way, but it looks completely different. And I'm OK
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: with that. I can lean into the different. I just
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: need a second to adjust. I'll always give you the
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: time you need. The adjustment isn't easy, but it's worth
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: making space for every single time. All of y'all sharing
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: kind of got me in the mood to share. The
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: thing about being a therapist is you can't really talk
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: about your experiences, but I'm not in treatment right now,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: my boy. This is a podcast, and I want to just,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: you know, I always say I don't espouse things I
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: think from my ivory tower. The mailbag episodes are when
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: I really jump in my therapist bag, but You know,
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: I'm also a human who's experiencing a lot of things
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: in real time. You all know I am promoting my book.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: It all starts when you do. And as much as
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: I think this book is brilliant and it's going to
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: bring so much to the world. I find myself like
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of you all really struggling, man, really struggling,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: really struggling with what that means. Whenever you see somebody,
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: whenever you see somebody release a book, you just see
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: them talk about, oh, I'm so excited. And this is, oh,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: it's so much fun. This shit ain't fun for me.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: It's not. It's not fun. It's not fun. It's not fun.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: I am enjoying the idea of bringing this work to
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: the world. And I think it's valuable. But in between
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: the constant traveling, the teams, the teams have gone up exponentially.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: I have so many people that I'm always on meetings
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: with and talking with. And as soon as I get
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: off of this pod, I got to go have a
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: meeting about another thing. And I jumped in this game
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: to be a creative. I jumped in this game to
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: make dope content and share my thoughts with the world.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: And somewhere along the way, it became a business. And
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: I have never had aspirations of being a businessman. I've
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: never wanted to be a brand. I never wanted to
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: be any of that stuff. I just wanted to share
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: cool videos. But when you get a lottery ticket, like,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: you know, being, having an opportunity to have 1.6 million
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: people on Instagram, follow you and God knows several other
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: million people across all other platforms. which I'm very thankful for.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: But it comes with this level of visibility that's very odd.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: Like celebrity is weird. It's just odd. I'm a person
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: that doesn't need to be noticed or I don't need
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: to be validated all the time. And it's not natural
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: to have millions and millions of people telling you you're
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: good and smart and capable and qualified. And when you
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: walk into a room, everyone looks at you different now.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: And all of a sudden your jokes are so, so
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: funny when they weren't before. And you have access to
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: people that you see on TV. And it's just a
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: lot for me to take in, man. It's a lot
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: for me to take in. So I really appreciate y'all
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: being honest because it really encourages me to be honest
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: with myself. And I've been asking myself, like one of
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: the callers talked about he asked his wife, what do
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: you need? And she said, she don't know. I don't
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: know what I'm growing into. I'm not the same person
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: I was two years ago. Do I like the person
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: I'm becoming? I'm cool with it. It's not bad. It's
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: just so different. He's more serious. He's more serious than
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: I've ever been. And I don't know how much I
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: like that. And he's more worried than I've ever been.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: I got to worry about my wife. I got to
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: worry about the kids. I got to worry about the business.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: I got to worry about my employees. I got to
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: worry about my money. I got to worry about my health.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: I got to worry about my colleagues. I got to
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: worry about my education. I got to worry about my license.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: I got to worry about this book. I got to
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: worry about the publisher in the US, publisher in the UK,
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: PR teams. Oh my God. It's so, so much. And
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: gratitude in hand, man. I'm really trying to figure out
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: what I want to do with this thing. I could
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: sit and do this podcast for a million years, but y'all,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: y'all know how growth goes, man. Like it's going to
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: be the podcast. And there's always going to be somebody
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: knocking on your door with an opportunity. And I'm trying
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: to put myself in a place where I want to
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: decide whether I answer that call or not. Cause if
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: somebody give you a big enough bag of money, you
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: liable to do anything. And don't get me wrong. I've, Listen,
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: I've turned down I've turned on a ridiculous amount of
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: money from brands because they just I don't believe in
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: what they do or they act real funny around black folk.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? Or they don't represent the
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: interest of my sense of morality, man. I want to
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: I want to feel good about what I do, but
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: I also I don't want to work this hard for
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: the rest of my life. This shit crazy. I'm not
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: one of the dudes. I like to hustle and get
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: up every morning and man, I got to get out
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: and go get it. The grind does not excite me.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: The grind exhausts me. I want to be somewhere with
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: my wife rubbing our feet together, watching House of the Dragon,
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out what Allison Hightower about to do next.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: I want to be somewhere with my kids making goop
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: and not having anxiety in my stomach, thinking about four
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: meetings that I have the next day. So if you
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: find yourself at a crossroads with who you are, what
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: you do, what you love and how it all fits together,
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: just know that you're not the only one. I have
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of friends who are, I mean, parenting experts
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: online and I talk to them about being a parent
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: and sometimes they don't know what they're doing. I have
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: friends who do finance at a huge level and sometimes
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: they are still worried about money. I have friends who
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: are in all these spaces, athletes who are worried about
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: job security entertainers who are worried about whether or not
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: the next project is going to be well received by
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: the public. It's that that part of the human experience.
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: No one is exempt from you can't escape that. It
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: is what it is. So I'll keep you updated on
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: where I am in my journey. I just thought that
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: this was a moment to just be honest. Maybe one day,
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know, the book will come out and people
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: will start reading it and things will be great. And
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: maybe that'll happen one day. But right now, on this journey,
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: I ain't feeling it. I ain't feeling it. I'm going
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: to do all the pods. I'm going to do all
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: the stuff. And I love talking to people, but it's just,
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: it's so different than who I've ever had to be
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: that I don't, I really haven't had time to process
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: whether I like it or not. And I can fake
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: for y'all to smile and everything's great. Like, you know, YouTube,
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: everyone's excited about everything and nothing's ever wrong. I can't
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: do that, man.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: I'm bad.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: I'm bad at being fake and I'm bad at lying
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to go. And I hope that you
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: become terrible at those things too and i hope that
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: you continue to share and be open as i continue
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: to share and be open and that we learn a
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: lot from each other man because i don't know what
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: humanity is if one person isn't helping the other i
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: don't know what we are and i don't want to
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: see that but what i do want to see is
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: you here on this pod every single week we drop
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: episodes every thursday The pot has grown tremendously. I am
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: thankful y'all stopped me in the street. Y'all be showing
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: me love. Y'all be hugging me and dapping me up.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: And oh man, this episode was good. I love this guest.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: I love what you said. And it warms my heart, man.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: So keep showing me the love and I'm going to
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: keep giving y'all my best every time I'm in front
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: of this microphone. And I think that's it for us today.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: So until the next time y'all hear from me and
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: until the next time I hear from y'all, take care
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: of yourself. Take care of the spaces around you. Take
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: care of your mind, man. Take care of your joy.
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: Take care of your peace. And just know that while
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: you're doing all that, I'm damn sure fighting for mine.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Until next time, y'all be good. Y'all well done. Learn
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: the Hard Way is a production of iHeart Podcast. I'm
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: your host, Keir Gaines. We're produced by Courtney Deans and
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: Kacen Alexander. Ashley J. Hobbs is our senior producer. Our
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: executive producers are Will Packer, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, Alex Baldwin,
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: and Carla Wilmaris.