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Only the Wounded Healer Heals · Outside Issues

• 0:02
  Speaker A: We as disabled persons are here today to ensure for the class of disabled Americans the ordinary daily life that non disabled Americans too often take for granted. The right to ride a bus or a train. The right to any job for which we are qualified. The right to enter any theater, restaurant or public accommodation. The right to purchase a home or rent an apartment. The right to appropriate communication.
• 0:29
  Speaker B: Welcome to Outside Issues with Audrey and Patrick. It's July, it's July 18th. And I learned through Audrey when we first started the podcast a few weeks ago that July in America is Disability Pride Month. And when I learned about it, I was just, I felt so much pride because I love that notion of, you know, you're just, you're wearing that on your sleeve and, you know, you're owning, owning that and celebrating that. Because people living with disabilities and there's a broad spectrum, you know, are just, have just as much value, you know, and contribute just as much to the tapestry as anybody else. And so, you know, I, I understand that you have been living with a disability for some time, Ryan and I wanted to let Audrey sort of lead the conversation from here, but, but I wanted to start by asking about your story, you know, if you can introduce yourself and tell us what happened that led you to this purpose and profession.
• 1:39
  Speaker A: Yeah, sure. It's a pretty great story if I don't say so myself. I, I, after graduating high school, I just wanted to snowboard. That's all I wanted to do. So I drag drug a camper, parked it in the parking lot of Crystal Mountain, and I snowboarded full time. And that led into kind of living either in a trailer or a Volkswagen van for almost a couple of years, just snowboarding. That's all I wanted to do. It didn't pay the bills, so started working some construction stuff with a friend. My dad worked construction, so I had some knowledge in it. Quickly kind of figured, well, I think I could probably start my own business. So did that. Had a, a couple of employees, one who was kind of battling their own demons and kind of, I was trying to help them, wanted to help them have like some stability of a job and things like that. Could tell they weren't. There were kind of a liability on the job site, so tried to let them go. I kind of had like a breakdown and I'm, I have a soft heart, I think, and kind of like gave him another chance. The following day we were lifting a two story wall, a balloon wall, and kind of, he was like in the middle. The, the builder that I was working for, they would Always be like. I would ask for, say, like, a boom truck or something to help with some heavy lifting. And they would always be like, oh, that's what you got the big muscles for and stuff. I also have a lot of pride, too. And so I would be like, yeah, I probably got it. And so they denied a boom truck. And then we were lifting it. The employee that I had that let go the day before was in the middle of it. I was like, well, that's the more dangerous spot. Let's switch out. Started standing the wall and could tell it wasn't going to get up past the point where it gets lighter. So let's back it back down. Got back to the top of the wall, and I was getting ready. I was like, I'm going to count three. We all let go. I got to one, and the individual just couldn't hold it anymore, so he just jumped. And it ended up teetering over me. Out of the other individual's hands, came down on me, kind of sandwiched me like a lawn chair. Underneath was, you know, trigger warning. It was. It was. It was pretty wild. A lot of. Lot of cracking and snapping and ribs and all of that. I orchestrated the entire 911 call. Like, they were all freaking out, and they're like, I don't know where the. What the address is. I'm like, the blueprints are in the back of the truck. It's on page blah, blah, blah, blah. And like, this is after we kind of like got me out, because I was like, I got to get out of here. This is bad. Kind of got out from under the wall. First thing I heard my one good employee say is, you're turning wild colors right now. I was like, yeah, this is not good. Then the paramedics get there. They do their whole thing, get me in there. They're doing the whole, you know, stay with us thing. That whole thing you might see in a gazillion in one cheesy television shows. But I just asked them to please be quiet because I was meditating. They, they, they. They did that. So I kind of meditated. So I got to the hospital. I had to sign off on a surgery that was there. Like, no, I don't know. We'll try. And so, like, essentially, one of my ribs went through. A lung broke. Almost all my ribs. Was very fortunate in that it didn't nick my spinal cord. Just stretched it really hard, yanked on it, and then that led to. Survived the surgery. Obviously, that led to me living in the hospital for about a year and in that time, I was told and recognized how valuable my attitude in that position was. I was still leaning heavily on my sense of humor and sense of play, you know, drug myself out of that bed as soon as I could get into a wheelchair and was as soon as they could unplug me from the wall. And the therapists in there, like, you know, we don't get a lot of people through here with your attitude. This is very great to see and keep that up. That's going to help you a lot. And I saw over that next year in the rehab hospital how true that was in that there was a lot of really dark rooms. And I don' just like, like it was, it was, you know, a dark feel to it. Like I could literally see the darkness in the rooms. Not because the lights were off, but you see all these people and just really traumatic spots. And I could see how much they were suffering. And all I could think was like, I just want to, I wish I could give them some of whatever it is that I've got. I don't even know what it is, but I wish I could give some to them. And then after a couple very tumultuous years of getting my life back together, I kind of decided to go to school because snowboarding and school didn't overlap. So I had to start in like my late mid to late 30s in school. Just went straight through, got my, my psychology and bachelor's and then my master's in social work. And then now I've been a year out from that, working as a full time individual therapist. Before that, while I was getting my master's as a group therapist at a inpatient facility. So, like, yeah, that's kind of what got me started coming here. I also recognize that before my accident, I ran in all sorts of different circles. I was a wild, wild child. And matter of fact, my mom said something which I thought was hilarious and also just very genuinely true. And her, she said, I think paraplegia has slowed you down enough to save your life. I was like, you know, you're probably right. You're probably right. But in those running wild years, I was always playing the therapist to different people. You know, I'd be in dark circles of people that, you know, society like, looks down on and for whatever reason or another, and they would even look down on themselves. And I would always be giving them pep talks and like, oh, no, you, you know, you do this. That's great. You know, you got that. That's good. And so I've been a Therapist, I think my entire life just didn't really know it. And that year in the rehab hospital just really kind of saw that there is a place where in which I could do a lot of good. And I'm so incredibly grateful that I found my way into school somehow, some way, and found my way here because it is very rewarding. What is a lot that we go through. Like I was saying earlier that each session is we're taking on a lot of other people's stuff, even though we are trying to have boundaries. It's really hard not to take on a lot of that. But I'm so very grateful that I did get here because it is so very rewarding. And those comments which I also mentioned earlier, such as, I feel like a very, completely different person is very rewarding, and it's exactly in line with my values, what I want to have in life, not necessarily wealth and things, but feeling good about, at the end of the day, what it is that I'm contributing to society, to the world. And therapy is very much that. I feel very good about it. I feel like I a very honest person. And if I'm to be honest, a lot of society and people I don't feel great about. And I always struggled with that. And this, working as a therapist has really helped with that in that I'm doing something about it, not just being annoyed or like, you know, feeling like other people should be doing things differently. It's helped me a lot in that I feel like I'm doing something about it. I'm helping people. I'm letting that ripple out. And, you know, I still get irritated out and about. As a paraplegic, I'm constantly feeling like I'm existing in a world that doesn't acknowledge me nor kind of recognize me. And so it's really hard to not get irritated. But I feel good about the work that I do, both for the people I'm working with, but also for myself. It's hard to not be constantly thinking about mental health and things that I could do to help my mental health when that's what I'm talking about all day. It's really hard to kind of get away from it. So, yeah, that's kind of my story that landed me in a wheelchair and then also put me into therapy. I think the two are very much intertwined.
• 11:17
  Speaker C: From what I know about you as a clinician and a colleague, you're always very advocate. You're always advocating for people and bringing that sort of heart. I think we were talking about you Know, earlier with having to charge and drop clients, like, you know, it's hard to. It's hard to do that with a big heart, to, you know, see somebody suffering at first or to know that somebody's suffering. And then you put yourself out there saying, hey, I can help because I've been through so much shit. And then you don't get the opportunity to. But I was going to ask. Since a couple of episodes ago, I described my disability, which is. It's a mental health disability, which is bipolar one with psychotic features. So I've been in the hospital a couple of times. I've had. I've been in psychosis, and I'd say the last year of my grad school, I was given accommodations in grad school, like, longer test times, longer. Longer deadlines for my papers, stuff like that. And I think with a mental and an unseen disability for. For me, that was kind of tough to sort of know, like, okay, I have a disability, but, like, nobody can tell if you're just talking to me or if you're just seeing me unless, you know, if I'm in psychosis or something like that. So I just kind of wanted to ask you, like, how does it feel like, you know, going through life and. Going through being a clinician and helping people while dealing with a disability that people can see?
• 13:14
  Speaker A: Yeah, I actually find it to be a superpower within the clinical setting. Sort of like one of the. I don't even think it's a Carl Jung quote, but that he's, like, kind of accredited with, like, the. Only the wounded healer heals. So, like, by having gone through something major and had, you know, found ways of healing that in ourselves, we can then also be that much better at helping others heal themselves. And so there's that. But then also, I think people will often, like friends in my personal life will. Will be, like, complaining about something like, oh, my. Like their knee hurts or something, or, oh, my back's been kind of acting up on me. And they're like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm complaining to you. And I always just tell them, like, oh, it's all relative, man. Just because I. This is my reality. Doesn't diminish your reality nor take away from the fact that you deserve to be cared about. And so I think people sometimes might kind of hold back at first until they get to know me. And I'm very. I'm very untherapist, like, in my speech pattern and in sessions. And so once they kind of get to know me and my sense of humor. And I'll definitely often, like. Like, use myself as, like, a joking aspect. Like, for instance, somebody will be like, oh, like. Like, oh, I've been. I've been, you know, trying to get out and get on. On more walks and stuff. I'm like, oh, well, you just gotta. Gotta flex on me. And, like. And so they'll. They'll kind of laugh and they'll kind of. They'll be like, okay, they'll be put at ease a little bit about, like. Like, I don't need to kind of put out a facade of, like, oh, I. What I'm going through because I'm talking to somebody in a wheelchair. But I think once they get past that, they recognize, like, oh, this person's. It's easier for them to see my struggles and the things I've been through. So they feel. I think. I think they feel. And I've had some confirmations that they appreciate the fact that, you know, I. It's obvious to see that I have experience of pain and suffering. And so I think there's some sort of camaraderie there, you know, connection and suffering. So I think the fact that they can see that is actually a superpower. And I think. I don't know, if you tell me, Audrey, if, like, does that ever come up for you? So, you know, it's like an unseen thing. Do you share that? And does that kind of lead to similar things in which. That I was just describing?
• 16:12
  Speaker C: Well, for me, I'm a pretty transparent therapist. I'm on your level. I'm not this authority figure looking down, like, how does this make you feel? How does that make you feel? Just really getting on the client's level. And so I'm very transparent. And sometimes, if I can, I'd say I'd have a good intuition. If my intuition is telling me to disclose what I've been through, I will. Especially with other clients who have had the same illness as I do. Along with that, though, I do have clients, you know, when I'm first meeting them or when I'm, you know, we're talking for the first couple of times, they'll say things about, like. Say, their families, like, okay, my mom is bipolar, and you can tell that she's bipolar. And, you know, I would ask, you know, what. What does that look like for you? And she would. They would be like, oh, you know, she's always up and down, up and down every single day. Where. As if you, like, you sort of know the knowledge of bipolar disorder, it's not like that it's more of like mood. Mood episodes for either days or weeks or months. So I, as a clinician, sometimes feel discriminated against, which is. It's an interesting feeling. I try to not let it get to me, but it still does in a little. In a little fashion. It's still kind of like, oh, am I looked at as this, you know, person that'll go up and down and up and down? I'm just not like, you know, fit for this job, I suppose. But, you know, like, Ryan's been saying a lot of, like he and I, I've explained my disability and my story, like, this is what led to our work. And I, quite honestly, I'd say like, maybe like 75% of therapists have been through a lot of shit ourselves, so that's why we get into this profession. So. But yeah, touching back on having an unseen disability, sometimes the stigma is there and they, the, the person talking to me like the client or the patient will not really, you know, they'll. They'll feed into the stigma and it's not their fault because there's so little education out there about what bipolar disorder is and how it's a disability. And I agree with you, though, it is a superpower because bipolar folks have a little bit higher creativity. Even though I don't really have time right now to be creative.
• 19:08
  Speaker B: This is creat.
• 19:10
  Speaker C: This is creative. You're right, Patrick. We have this resiliency that is able to be seen. I think, especially after you go through an episode where your disability is seen, we have this resiliency to go back and work really hard to get ourselves in check. Taking medicine, seeing therapists. Personally, I take seven medications and I see two therapists. So that's why I take care of my mental health, so I could take care of others. Mental health.
• 19:47
  Speaker B: Can you describe, like, your relationship with the darkness and the. After your injury and in your recovery? Because you mentioned. And I, I relate to this deeply. The humor kicked in fairly quickly and like, you know, our, Our embrace or our clinging to the light is like a mechanism to recover and to heal. I mean, you know, like, sometimes when I'm asked about. Well, you seem awfully positive in light of the circumstances, you know, that positivity is a strategy to survive. But I, I guess I wanted to know, like, what. In. In all of that journey that you described to us. Yeah. Did you ever flirt with the fuck it's. Or like, did it ever just get so dark sometimes? You know, and we have. And just what was that like? Or what did you encounter that?
• 20:36
  Speaker A: Yeah. Again, trigger warning to any audience, people listening to this. Absolutely. Like, there are the years that it took me to get my life in order, you know, that the sense of humor was there. I was definitely like finding ways of using my sense of humor as a coping mechanism and. And 100% early on before, I kind of had gotten through a lot of that to where I got to a stable place. I for sure been in that place. I've been institutionalized a couple of times. I've held loaded guns to my head. I've. I've done a lot. And a lot of that was coming from not the exterior world and how difficult it was and how I felt very unseen and discriminated against, but it was more coming from within and me not embracing my shadow and only kind of like, you know, not trying to heal it, just like, you know, it's not fair. Why me? All of those things that are coming up. But I did find I'm very incredibly grateful for my wonderful and beautiful mother, that she was always kind of there through a lot of that stuff and very helpful and I think really the only reason why I didn't follow through on a couple of my attempts. But, you know, I have since come to embrace my shadow and recognize that, you know, that that darkness isn't. It's. It's not. Not a part of me. It is a part of me and is actually a reason for some of my tattoos. I've got a light and a dark side on both, so that I'm embracing my ability to both do good and wrong and embrace the light as well as embrace the dark. And in reconciling those two and not feeling like, well, why do I not have the light now? Why. Why is our things dark? It's not fair. I don't want to be here. I've come to learn to recognize that. And then getting through it quicker. I don't. Well, in that dark place for a long period of time and, you know, I can't say that I don't still kind of get a little like ho hummy every once in a while, but nothing like that first five or six years, it was a very, very tumultuous and difficult five or six years of just. Just big swings of up and down. Feel it. Because I mean, a lot of doors open. So I actually tell people, both in my personal and professional, I'm grateful for the accident that put me into a wheelchair. Not only did it slow me down possibly enough to save my life in a time That I was going way too fast. It also has given me a lot of gratitude for things that I was taking for granted. It's, it's actually made me be a deeper, more well rounded me. And it also opened up a lot of doors. I mean, I was a, I was a professional snowboarder. I was all, I was like a star wrestler. I've always been an athlete and good at that. And that led to somebody seeing that I was an athlete and the fact they, they trained flat water, sprint, kayaking, and that was going to be inducted into the Paralympics in 2012. I believe it was. They found me in like 2011. Yeah, yeah. No, it wasn't in. It was 2016. I was going to be inducted into the Paralympics. They found me in 2011, trained for like nine months and got my way into the, onto the US Paralympic team and I got to go to the world championships and I got to go do that for five straight years traveling the world. And it opened that door. I did tear my shoulder two months before the 2016 Olympics, so I couldn't go. I got to watch it from an assisted living facility with one working appendage from a bed for about four months. But those five years leading up to that, where I did get to travel the world and go do all of this with stuff that I wasn't, I didn't have a chance at, without the accident. So I think that has been a big healing aspect of it as well. Coming to grips with that and recognizing that if I'm just dwelling on the why me? This isn't fair. I'm losing sight of all the, oh, I, I can do this now. Oh, I'm so happy that I have this gratitude and appreciation for the things that I do have. So, for instance, not having my spinal cord nicked, I have, it's such a better. I mean, it could have been so much worse if my spinal cord had gotten nicked. If it had been a little bit higher, I would have knocked these two strong arms to do everything that I do with. So, you know, I definitely found a lot of gratitude in that. And so, yeah, the embracing both the light and the dark and finding it strengthened my ability to see more than just what's right directly in front of my face. And I'm immensely grateful for that. I think that's something that a wide range of the population has, is sort of blinders on. Sort of like what you're saying, Audrey, to like, I know it's unseen. There's stigma, there's people, it's on Edge, no education on it. And it's really easy to. When you've got everything going for you or even just you're so busy with things that you don't have time to think about that. And I promise you, I had a lot of time to think, losing the ability to walk. So I'm grateful for it, though.
• 27:38
  Speaker B: If you can get right with yourself, then the road that led you there, you know, is something that, you know, you can find some peace with. And, like, I. I encounter that in some level with my own recovery. You know, at first, I resent, you know, just how far afield I thought that I'd gotten. But once I, you know, once I liked the person that I was, I realized that, well, you know, it just had to be this way. This is. I had to get here. I had to come from there.
• 28:07
  Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And then that sort of mode of thinking is also something to remember in the present that, hey, like, what am I not seeing now? Like, sure, I've maybe, you know, I've gone through a lot, and I've accomplished a lot, but what else, maybe, am I not seeing or what else is possible for me to get to? And when things are all just going all hunky door, you're not thinking about that kind of stuff of like, huh, what are my, you know, what are the things that maybe I could do better at? Or, you know, just even the fact that, yeah, I do have flaws, and there are, you know, things that in my past, you know, maybe I wish I had seen then, but, hey, what am I not seeing now instead of, like, wish I had seen those things back then, taking that experience and then finding it, finding a way to then transmute that into the present and then opening up a new future for yourself.
• 29:09
  Speaker C: I totally agree. And when we're talking about the earlier for me, and I know I can't. Well, I can a little bit speak for Patrick. Let's just be honest here. We went through substance abuse, especially me, because of my unseen disability. I was undiagnosed bipolar until I was age 34. And so for that whole time, I was drinking and using drugs in order to cope. And it's really important for my recovery to, like, address both my. My unseen disability, my bipolar disorder, and my underlying addiction problems. Because, you know, if you look at the statistics of people with my disorder, the average age is. Lifespan, I think, is about 64 or something like that. And that's just based on data that has to do with, again, trigger warning, suicidality and substance use, substance overdose, and even of course, with the fentanyl epidemic going on right now, if you. Some of the stuff that I have felt, I have felt like, oh, I just wanna, I just wanna get high. Like, I don't care anymore. This is so painful. I just, I just want to get high. And you know, it's, it's a, it's a hopeless feeling. It's a hopeless, hopeless feeling. And, you know, I, I'm very grateful though, to like, like you, Ryan, to have gotten sort of through, through this with support. I'm very lucky to have support in recovering from my addiction, my alcoholism and yeah, it's been, it's been a journey to, to sobriety and it's been a journey to wellness, but it's also led me to a journey of becoming a clinician, becoming a social worker. And I love it.
• 31:21
  Speaker A: I find it to be incredibly fulfilling to recognize that that suffering is led to the ability to help others and get through that. I think it's a, it's a ongoing non stop therapy for myself to continue to be doing that because, like, you know, all that, those years of suffering wasn't just for nothing. Okay? Now I'm, now I've got stability and now I can, you know, do whatever I find that I, that immense suffering led to something incredibly powerful that's bigger than myself. And I think sort of, you know, in recovery it's, you know, something that comes up a lot, finding a power that's bigger than you. You know, for me it's, it's more a spiritual thing and also just sort of like, like looking beyond myself. Because when we're only focused on ourself, it's really easy to kind of like feel the weight of things we might be going through and kind of finding something that is bigger than us. And for me, that bigger than me is the ripples that I'm sending out into the world with what I'm doing currently. And that's not, it's no small thing. And I think, yeah, like, I, I would imagine that, you know, I've, I've had substance use majority of my life and definitely have been in and out of all sorts of systems and things like that. And I think having the experience in that goes a lot further to help describe to others as to what kind of effect it has on your mental health and life as opposed to just like, you know, hey, I read this in a book somewhere and it's a. I know that I come across often in people that I'm working with, substance abuse of some sort. And I try to be as transparent as possible without, you know, only if it's something that's going to help the client. Not just kind of, you know, trauma dumping or just sharing my stuff. But to be able to speak from experience, I think goes a lot further than like, oh, this is the psychology of it. This is the psychology of it. And I've been there, felt it and experienced it.
• 34:22
  Speaker B: Ryan, how do you deal with the state of the world? Do you pay much attention to it? You mentioned being bothered by society earlier. Like, I don't know. I, I think the kind of I get from you, like a think globally, act locally kind of attitude, and I think that that's right on. But yeah, I mean, I'm sure you get clients who come in and they're pulling their hair out because of how stressful everything has gotten. So can you speak to that?
• 34:46
  Speaker A: No, I don't pay, I don't pay attention at all. I, I find especially, I mean, even just to like, be like, well, I want to stay educated and aware of what's going on. I feel like it's, that's a hard thing to do without getting pulled into it. Right. And it's almost in a way that is caused to sort of create tension, stress and anxiety and anger and all those big emotions. Right. That's what kind of keeps you coming back and turning the news on and paying attention to it. I think maybe somewhat pessimistic. I feel like there's a much bigger play at work than just the, the talking heads that we see on TV and on in the government. And so I just recognize, I've been there, recognize how detrimental it was to my mental health and just unplugged myself from it. I do try to self reflect and look at my own stigmas and how I'm affecting people around me and areas in which that I can make improvements and work on that. You know, if there's like a cause or something to get involved in, I'm happy to, you know, throw myself into it if there's something that I can do. But as far as like getting what wound up and riled up over things like that I like, such as politics, religion, whatever it might be, I just recognize that that's not for me and I don't think it's a healthy place to be. I think that it's really, again, designed in that way. The, the, the, the brain's tendency to look towards danger and negativity so as to find survival. They know that and they're using that to pull our attention and So I checked out and I've never been happier. And I. 100. Yeah, I get quite a few clients coming through, pulling their hair out. And that's usually what I try to lead them into doing, is sort of, what can you. What can you do about things that you care about? And how can you minimize the amount of time that you're spending, you know, pulling your hair out about these things? And it's difficult. You know, again, psychology is a very powerful thing, and very powerful people know that. And so it's good to educate ourselves on it and find ways that we can still fight against tyranny, fight against oppression, fight against all those things, but without getting, you know, without spinning ourselves out. Because that's exact sort of like our current president's sort of mode of operation is just like, here's that, here's this boom, here's that, take that. Like, pay attention to nothing, because you have to pay attention to everything. And there's a way to find balance in that. And also just coming to grips with the fact that we do have power, but that power lies kind of, like you say, more locally. This stuff does ripple out. We can vote, we can put people in that are going to kind of, you know, there's lots of things we can do, you know, in a broader sense. But I find that the most healthy and productive work gets done locally. And I would even go a step further that it comes from within, because, like, by filling our own cup, we're then capable of going out in the world and spreading energy that's not toxic, and that is going to kind of help other people in situations, and they're going to. And that's another thing that I love about therapy, is kind of talking about all this sort of stuff and helping educate people in a way that they can care for themselves. And by each person that I help get stronger at that, they're going out and spreading that to 10 other people and then 10 other people. So it definitely. It spreads out, but I feel like from starting from within and then locally while also being aware and informed. But it strategically in a way that doesn't kind of get you all wound up and spinning your wheels.
• 39:48
  Speaker B: Well, that's a. I. I love that take and it's very right sized. Yeah. Just a disclaimer. I never claim to be healthy. You know, I get twisted up all the time by this kind of thing. But, you know, Audrey, since we're coming up on the hour, why don't you. Are there any, like, last questions you want to ask Ryan or Anything on your mind that you can lead us.
• 40:08
  Speaker C: Out with, with in your genius as a clinician? Because everyone has their own genius as whatever they do professionally or personally, as in your genius as a clinician. How has your view of the world and your disability helped people regain themselves and regain their identity?
• 40:34
  Speaker A: Well, I think very. The very first thing is by. And actually just had somebody mention this on Wednesday of I much like you, Audrey, I try to be very transparent. And they mentioned that they appreciate that and the way in which that I lead by example, I forget the exact term that they used, but that that helps them. And I think them seeing me, knowing me as a paraplegic and seeing that, hey, you know, this guy's been through a lot and seems to be in a stable place. And I'm very genuine and transparent about things that I do and that I feel. And again, have been told that that does expire, inspire them to kind of like find hope. Like, oh, I'm in a place right now that just feels so big and inescapable. But I'm. I heard Brian kind of share some of his story and wow, that seemed like a lot and like, he's used these, these tools and these skills that he talks about to help himself get through. Now maybe there's some hope in me getting through where I'm at. And I feel like hope is like, it gets undervalued, like, to feel any bit of hope of, like, hey, you know, like, like it's gonna take some time and it's not gonna be overnight and it's gonna, you know, have its, you know, some more struggles within it. But if I can stay consistent with doing these things, it's there. Maybe it's hopeful that I can get out of this dark place that I'm in. And so that's why I very much try to be very, very transparent. Sometimes it's difficult to really recognize, like, is this something worth sharing, self disclosing and sharing with them, But I feel like with myself again, that superpower of just giving them a little bit of hope because, like, people often aren't educated on life as a paraplegic because the world is getting more set up to have it be somewhat accessible. But still, we're kind of tucked away, right? We're not seen everywhere. I am. I mean, I've gone. I've gone backpacking in, you know, Southeast Asia by myself in a wheelchair, like through jungles, dragging myself up on riverboats and up old ruins and stuff like that. People are like, whoa, what is this robot out Here, we've never seen this. And likewise, out just around here, I get where I need to go and I go, and I don't let anything stop me. But that's not necessarily everybody's experience. So people aren't seeing that. And so they don't necessarily know what it's like. They kind of have an idea, and it's usually kind of exaggerated, like, oh, they're in a wheelchair. They're like, it must suck for them. Everything must suck. Oh, it's gotta suck. Kind of pop pops into their mind by getting educated. They recognize, like, you know, it's not a one size fits all kind of thing. And also. But so them having, like, maybe this idea in their head of it's gotta suck to be a paraplegic. And I'll tell you, it does suck, but it's not all suck all the time. There's definitely a lot of highlights and there's a lot of. Especially when you get to a good place and there's a lot of inspiration. And so them kind of seeing that wheelchair, the paraplegia, and then me kind of being very transparent, letting them in a little bit and showing them that, hey, there is help, hope. I've been hopeless, and I found these skills work. I feel like that's. It lands a lot harder, or I. I feel it has the ability to land a lot harder when they can kind of like, experience them. They can see that. They see, okay, there's some hope. I can then feel like, oh, that I might have some hope as well. And, you know, it's not with everybody. There's so many different people that we see, right? So many different clients, so many different demographics, so many identities that we work with. So it's not all one size fits all. But I definitely, through transparency and the paraplegia, find that I can implant hope, which I feel is like the. The catalyst to all the other things that they're working on.
• 45:12
  Speaker C: Sam.