Latest / 4-Freedom Podcast / 183. The Bearded Episode - Special Guest JC Groves

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183. The Bearded Episode - Special Guest JC Groves · 4-Freedom Podcast

0:00
Welcome back to the For Freedom podcast.
0:02
What a great day it is to have served the Lord and what a great
0:06
time it is in Podcast World and Podcast Land.
0:11
And it has been a whirlwind of the last couple of weeks
0:16
recording, re recording, doing other various things.
0:20
And we are excited about what we've got going on today with
0:24
the episode that'll be coming out here in just a little bit as
0:27
we get to through some of our banter and some of our
0:30
beginning, it talks. But we are excited about what we
0:35
are going to be talking about with JC here later and excited
0:38
about his insight and timing and and thoughts on fundamentalism
0:43
and his his side of it under Lee Robertson and the TTU there.
0:49
Brett, how are things going in your life, in your world the
0:53
here in the last week of August? How's things going, my friend?
0:59
Man, things are going good. I'll tell you what I'm excited
1:02
about. I'm excited about for some fall
1:04
weather. We're supposed to get some fall
1:06
weather this week. Get down.
1:08
You got, you know, highs in the, in the, in the, in the early 80s
1:13
and then with lows in the 60s. And then of course, we'll, you
1:17
know, we're down here in Mississippi, the heat will
1:19
definitely come back before fall comes here to stay.
1:22
But man, things are going good. We're busy, we're working, we're
1:25
doing things in the ministry. And, and we've, I'll tell you,
1:29
our church, we have had visitors every Sunday since vacation
1:34
Bible school. And it is, we've had, we've had
1:37
to add seats in the choir. The people were joining the
1:41
choir. And we have just been having a
1:44
great time at, at, at, at Rocky Point Baptist Church.
1:47
We've got a crusade coming up in our county.
1:50
And you know, I'm in charge of that.
1:52
I don't know how they took me into that, but I'm in charge of,
1:56
of getting all that, coordinating all the churches
1:59
and it, it, it's been busy. It's been a lot, but it's also
2:03
been an experience I wouldn't give anything for.
2:06
And we've got Alex McFarlane coming in September the 21st
2:11
through the 24th into our county.
2:15
And then we've, we've just got so many irons in the fire trying
2:18
to get this together, but life and ministry and being a pastor.
2:22
And I told somebody the other day, I think it was the young
2:25
adults in my, in my small group, I send them, look, if, if, if I
2:30
won the lottery and they paid me $100 million, I would still come
2:36
to work every day because I just, I love being a pastor.
2:39
I love being in the ministry. And I love you too, James.
2:43
Hey, I love you too big Brett. I love it.
2:45
Yeah, it's been great. I'm same way.
2:48
I love it. This morning I got here and
2:50
doing some sermon prep and it's been exciting and and lots of
2:53
good things. We've got a family that's been
2:55
visiting for the last couple of weeks that's supposed to be
2:57
joining this Sunday. They gave me the some
3:00
information on on joining some just some basic information
3:03
about their family. So yeah, things are good.
3:05
Things are going well in my world and it has been a great
3:09
time. School just officially started
3:11
back for our county, so we've got sports and games starting
3:14
back and my kids have started back at school, so it's been a
3:18
breath of fresh air just to be able to get back to some
3:21
normalized scheduling. The crazy part is now sports get
3:25
thrown in that mix and the volleyball games and all the
3:28
crazy things that come with that.
3:30
But yeah, things have been good on our area and man, we're
3:33
excited about Israel coming up. We don't want you to forget
3:36
about that. If you would like to go with us,
3:38
come with us in January 30th to February 7th.
3:42
It's going to be a wonderful time.
3:44
Get your deposit in, get your spot reserved and we can work
3:48
with you on what that looks like as far as payments wise, they're
3:52
listed there. But what a great trip.
3:54
It's going to be a great time to be able to experience the Holy
3:58
Land, to be able to see the Bible in front of you and how it
4:02
comes to life right there in front of your eyes.
4:05
And I know it's going to be a great time for me and Brett to
4:07
be able to leave this trip. And we'd love for you to go with
4:10
us. If you got questions about
4:12
safety, regards of how that's going to look, shoot us a text
4:16
and e-mail, call us, message us on direct Facebook or Instagram
4:21
or whatever and we can answer some of those questions for you.
4:25
But we'd love for you to go with us and experience the Holy Lands
4:27
with me, Brett. And I think Marcus is going to
4:30
be on that trip as well with some of his guys and it's going
4:33
to be a wonderful time. Amen, brother.
4:36
Yes, do not forget about Israel. You know, it's the closer it
4:41
gets, I, I get more and more excited about it and I'm trying
4:46
to talk to people. We've got a limited number of
4:48
spots and Israel's something that I'm excited to go back for.
4:53
It's open, it's safe, it's ready and I am looking forward to that
4:57
probably a lot more than I have in the past.
5:01
It's just getting more real the. Closer it gets but.
5:04
I'll tell you what, James, I, I have really enjoyed this series
5:09
that we've been in and not only me, a lot of our audience has
5:13
enjoyed this series. We've gotten a lot of comments,
5:16
we've gotten a lot of direct messages.
5:19
We've gotten a lot of things that have been said to us, a lot
5:23
of attaboys. And I love the episodes and I'm
5:28
really, I'm really happy that we're in this.
5:32
We're getting ready to shift gears here and catch another
5:35
gear, but this series has been has been well received from what
5:40
I've seen. Yeah, Yeah, it actually has
5:43
been, yeah. We've been talking about the
5:45
first of the year and now it's going into the second part of
5:48
the year. Looks like it's going to
5:50
hopefully finish out by the end of the year, but it it may go
5:52
into the next season as well. Just we've been excited about
5:56
people reaching out, want to share their story.
5:59
And if that's you, if you want to Share your story, if you've
6:01
got a time where you were in one of these ministries or even the
6:04
one of the ministries we talked about in the next couple of
6:06
weeks, I'd love for you to reach out and say, Hey, I, I want to
6:09
share my story. I want to share what my
6:12
experience was. You see, me and Brett, we
6:15
weren't actually at all these places.
6:17
And our thing is, is we want to give some historical evidence
6:21
and some things that we can research and find out.
6:23
But if we don't have a first hand experience, we're not going
6:26
to talk like we have a first hand experience.
6:28
And so that's where you guys come in to come on and share
6:31
your experience like we have today with JC and some others in
6:35
the past that have shared. And so we want you to have a
6:38
part of that and come on and Share your story as well.
6:42
Absolutely. And I'll tell you, we've got
6:45
today we've gotten, you know, I'm not a, I'm not a Calvinist,
6:49
but I love me some John Calvin Groves.
6:52
And so I'm looking forward to talking to JC today.
6:56
All right, let's jump into it. For freedom, you set me free.
7:00
Not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee Grace.
7:03
Lift the flame. Now I'm puffing peace cigars and
7:05
victory justified. Released.
7:10
Welcome to the for freedom podcast this podcast exists to
7:14
bring the. Freedom of the Gospel for
7:16
everyday. Christians.
7:17
With everyday issues, I ain't. Saved by dress codes, not by
7:21
what I eat. I'm covered in the
7:23
righteousness, washed from head to feet.
7:24
No tally of tradition. No man made code.
7:27
Blood bought my freedom. Now I ride that road.
7:30
They clutch pearls when they see smoke rings rise.
7:32
But my prey still ascends past the legalist cries.
7:35
Christ plus nothing. That's the real math.
7:38
So miss me with your fence laws and your extra path.
7:41
He sat with sinners. I'm sitting with Saints, sipping
7:44
grace from the bottle. No room for face.
7:46
I like one for liberty. Toast to the king.
7:49
Every ash of sermon. Death has lost its sting.
7:52
For freedom He set me free, Not for change, not for guilt, not
7:56
for Pharisee. Grace lit the flame, now puffing
7:59
peace, cigars and victory justified, released.
8:03
For freedom, He set me free, not for change, not for guilt, not
8:06
for Pharisee. Grace lit the flame now puffing
8:10
peace, cigars and victory justified released.
8:13
Let Grace begin now. Here are.
8:22
Your hosts, James Seyfried. And Brett Martin, All right,
8:27
well, we're excited about having Mr. JC Groves here with us
8:30
talking through his time at Tennessee Temple University when
8:33
the Lee Robertson, the great late Lee Robertson was there.
8:37
And JC, welcome to the show. You've told us your story in the
8:40
past. And so we don't want to rehash a
8:42
lot of that. We want to jump right into your
8:44
time at Tennessee Temple. Why did you decide to go to
8:48
Tennessee Temple? What drew you there over all the
8:51
other colleges that were out there?
8:52
Well fellas, let me first. Thank you for having me back on.
8:55
It's good to be here on the floor of Freedom Podcast.
8:57
Big fan and I listen to every episode.
9:01
That's a fact. So Tennessee Temple, I love
9:04
Tennessee Temple and I, you know, my papaw when I was
9:08
growing up, my papaw was good friends with Bob Jones.
9:10
You know, obviously he wanted me to go there.
9:13
I didn't want to go to Bob Jones just because I was trying to
9:15
rebel a little bit. Plus, I grew up around Tennessee
9:18
Temple. We moved from Indianapolis,
9:21
where my dad was going to an offshoot of Hiles Anderson
9:24
called Heritage Baptist College in Indianapolis and we moved
9:27
here in 87 to Chattanooga so he could finish his schooling at
9:32
Tennessee Temple. And I just, I grew up going to
9:35
the basketball games. I grew up, you know, Kevin
9:39
Woodruff, who was the librarian, remembers me like, you know, 6-7
9:43
years old, hiding under the table in the library while these
9:46
college students are studying. And dad's in there trying to
9:48
write papers. And I'm hiding under a table and
9:50
he's giving me Tootsie Rolls. And like, I just remember
9:53
Tennessee Temple. It was where I wanted to go.
9:56
I ended up going to Pensacola for a couple weeks.
9:58
We all know that story. We won't hash that one out
10:00
again. But left him, left Pensacola,
10:03
went back to Tennessee Temple and honestly, it was it was a no
10:06
brainer after that. There was a moment in my life
10:08
where I was trying to get on the baseball team at Florida State,
10:11
had a couple cousins to play down there.
10:13
I was like, this is where I want to go, But realized real
10:15
quickly, a homeschool baseball player is not good enough to get
10:17
a scholarship at Florida State. And so I ended up at Tennessee
10:21
Temple in the summer of 2000 after spending some time at Word
10:24
of Life down in Florida or excuse me, up in New York and
10:28
then Disney Temple is where it's at.
10:30
So there was no other choice. It was TTU all the way.
10:34
You know, I'll tell you that I remember when I was going to
10:37
how's Anderson? One of the highlights of my
10:41
experience there was getting to hear Lee Robertson preach.
10:46
And it was really, really cool to hear him preach.
10:48
I remember one time they got up and they gave him a a digital.
10:52
Bible. He just shook his head.
10:55
He was not having that digital Bible man.
10:58
But I remember him getting up. He always had his three points.
11:01
Read your Bible, pray, go to church.
11:04
That was just. The kind of guy he was and what,
11:06
what I didn't know at the time is while I'm sitting in there
11:09
listening to Lee Robertson preach, you're the one that
11:11
drove in there. And, and I, I, I never knew that
11:15
about you, that you were his personal driver.
11:18
And so I got to ask you, what was that like driving him
11:22
around? What are your favorite stories?
11:24
Memory of what sticks out to you?
11:26
Well, there was a, there was a group of us, about five of us
11:29
that got to drive him around. I, I actually shouldn't have
11:33
been one of those, but I left in 2000 and no 2002 and moved to
11:40
Yadkinville, NC for a little bit and then came home and I spent a
11:45
year, I didn't re enroll in school and I worked in
11:48
admissions. And so as a student slash
11:51
admissions worker, they were like Groves, you're just
11:53
traveling around speaking at schools.
11:55
Will you drive Doctor Robertson around?
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So I got in that rotation and man, it was almost like picking
12:00
up Moses or some, you know, I mean like the door open and I
12:03
was expecting angels to then he sit down and here's the thing I
12:06
loved about Lee Robertson. He never forgot a name, never a
12:11
former student, my dad. I he he said, now, now who's
12:14
your son? Who's your dad?
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I said, oh, John Groves, He's like, oh, John Groves, I
12:18
remember. And you know, I mean, just never
12:20
forgot a name. It was it was really awesome
12:23
just to to be able, you know, he died in 2007.
12:26
So I was right there towards the end of his life and just we
12:30
didn't really have too many conversations, but he just
12:32
talked and he would remember things as we'd drive around, go
12:35
eat breakfast at Wally's, which was his favorite place, taking
12:38
him to preach it, Howl's, Anderson's, things like that.
12:41
It, it was just a a great experience and I'm so thankful
12:44
for that opportunity. Yeah.
12:46
You know, as we are in this world of independent fundamental
12:51
Baptist, we've left so long ago as as we leave and I'll sit down
12:55
with guys that were in the can't meet movement.
12:57
We're going to be talking about that in a couple of months here
13:00
as as we close the season down. But one of the things I hear
13:03
often is, well, when they're in the pulpit, they're one way.
13:07
But once you get them behind doors and you get them out by
13:09
the behind, they're they're ripping all the church members
13:12
and they're talking about how they're this way that way.
13:15
Was that ever a time with was he the same in the car as he was in
13:19
the pulpit as he was in his office?
13:21
Can you share a little bit? I have a quote that I still say
13:25
to this day be the same personally, publicly and
13:27
privately. And that was something I learned
13:29
from Doctor Lee Robertson. He said that all the time.
13:32
He would tell us that in Chapel, he would tell us that I remember
13:35
preacher boys class at my freshman year.
13:38
We're sitting in here in, in Lee Robertson Center and there's
13:42
probably 30-40 of us. And he said no boys be the same
13:44
personally, publicly, privately, you know, and he had his points.
13:47
You know, he always alliterated well.
13:49
And that was how he was, if we were at Wally's eating, if we
13:52
were picking up dry cleaners, if we were at his haircut
13:55
appointment, if we were traveling to a school for him to
13:57
preach, he was the same person in the pulpit as he was in the
14:00
car. So you can imagine everything
14:02
that you're having a conversation, it's like a sermon
14:04
from Doctor Robertson sitting in the car.
14:06
But you know, years later, just a few months ago, his
14:11
granddaughter and her husband started attending my church
14:13
here. And she said the same thing
14:15
about her grandfather. Like, he's the same person no
14:18
matter where you go. And that is one of the stories
14:20
that you hear about, about anybody that had anything to do
14:23
with Lee Robertson. He was the same person.
14:27
Now I I have a little connection to Tennessee Temple because my
14:31
pastor grew. Up.
14:33
Tennessee Temple and my youth pastor, my pastor and youth
14:37
pastor. Growing up, they both.
14:38
Attended Tennessee temple and me having.
14:41
With the house Anderson, I'm curious about what?
14:44
Did a day in the life of a Tennessee Temple student look
14:48
like like, well, how would you describe the spiritual
14:52
atmosphere? What?
14:53
What was it like to be there? Oh man, you know, they're
14:57
they're for the first few years that we were there, Doctor
15:02
Robertson was alive. And I think a lot of the the
15:06
culture started changing after he passed away.
15:10
This is one thing I want to go back and, and one of the things
15:12
that I want to highlight real quick about that last question.
15:15
One of the things that I loved about Doctor Robertson, picking
15:19
him up and dropping him off and this story just just entered my
15:22
brain. One of the things that we had in
15:25
his office at Highland Park Baptist Church, he had this blue
15:27
carpet and all of us drivers, we got to go in and see the room.
15:31
Bro, I thought I was walking into the Holy of Holies.
15:33
I was like, where am I at here? You know, I mean, I was just
15:35
waiting for angels to sing. But I remember walking into his
15:38
office at Highland Park, blue carpet.
15:40
He had a big map of Chattanooga on the wall, a lot of little
15:44
pins where all the missionaries were all all over the world.
15:47
But in the corner of that office, the carpet was just worn
15:51
out and it caught my eye. There was AI believe that if I
15:56
can remember correctly, there was a a full armored soldier
15:59
over there, you know, put on the full armor of God and then this
16:02
this carpet. And I asked him, I said, Doctor
16:05
Robertson, what? What's up with your carpet over
16:06
there? And come to find out that is
16:08
where he prayed every day. Like he literally had a spot
16:11
that he would kneel down and pray and we that that's one of
16:14
the highlights that I remember of his life is like that's
16:17
years. That's not just like something
16:18
that just started happening, but that was one of the areas and he
16:21
he always would say you got to find you a place to pray.
16:24
You got a kneel in prayer, you know not, but I remember that
16:27
and that that happened when nobody was in the office.
16:30
That happened behind the scenes. That happened when Highland Park
16:33
built that building hundreds of years ago, whatever, however
16:36
long ago it was. So that's one of the things that
16:38
just kind of read. He was the same personally,
16:40
publicly and privately for Tennessee Temple when when
16:44
Doctor Robertson was alive, There was AI mean.
16:47
It was an independent fundamental Baptist school.
16:49
You know, we we we did the crazy things.
16:52
I mean, we had the rules like everybody else.
16:54
I mean, I got in trouble. You know, the sideburns were
16:57
below the knot of my year at one time and I still can't find that
17:01
verse. You know, I played Jesus in the
17:03
Chattanooga Passion play and I had to wear a badge around that
17:07
said Jesus beard badge and I did not wear that beard badge one
17:12
day even though I've been Jesus for four years in a row.
17:15
I didn't wear that badge into the cafeteria and I got demerits
17:18
2 weeks before Easter. I'm like come on y'all, you know
17:21
I'm playing Jesus in the passion play.
17:22
Obviously Jesus wasn't fat, bald and you know me now you look
17:27
different. I look like whatever Jesus will
17:30
look like. That's awkward.
17:31
But you know, Tennessee Temple was, it had its crazy rules, you
17:35
know, I mean, curfews and all this stuff.
17:38
I remember one of the craziest things we did, and I've talked
17:41
about this on the RFP hundreds of times, but we had track day,
17:45
take it to the streets and we would tie tracks to balloons and
17:48
let them go. And one day the wind was blowing
17:50
and literally almost every track or balloon got stuck in the
17:56
power lines right up front and the power went off.
17:58
We're like, nobody's getting saved today, but we would.
18:01
Seriously, this is one of the craziest things we would write.
18:04
We had to write the address and our name on the back of tracks,
18:08
and the person whose track was found the furthest away won this
18:11
big prize and stuff. So I would always mail mine to
18:13
my aunt and uncle in Africa or over on the other side, and that
18:17
would send it in. I won like five years in a row
18:19
all the way in California. JC Groves, man, how did your
18:23
balloon make it to California? I think they got suspicious when
18:26
my aunt and uncle in Africa realized that the balloon all
18:29
the way to Uganda has missionaries there.
18:32
So I don't think I won anymore after that.
18:33
But you know, Tennessee Temple, looking back on it, I loved it.
18:38
I had the time of my life. There was crazy, stupid rules.
18:42
I mean, we went to Chapel three times a week.
18:44
I don't know how many times y'all went at house or five
18:47
times y'all went every day. Hey baby, every day.
18:50
We were three to thrive. We were Monday.
18:52
You were every day too. We were Monday, Wednesday,
18:54
Friday. That's when we were and it was
18:58
it was fun. I mean, you know, I, I got to
19:00
sing a lot. So I was leading, not worship.
19:03
I was singing and it was fun. I enjoyed it.
19:07
I, you know, there's, there's, there's always crazy stories.
19:10
But I was also student body vice president for three years in a
19:13
row. So I wasn't the president.
19:15
I just got in trouble all the time.
19:16
That's all I did. We had champion, we had five
19:20
days. I think now it's like two or
19:22
three days. They've scaled that back.
19:24
One is because it's like, dude, we we're finding like we're just
19:28
pulling people out of nowhere just to kind of preach.
19:30
That's a lot of preachers. It it is a lot and you know,
19:33
back then they were flying in guys.
19:35
And crazy. We also had South.
19:38
Wide. Oh yeah, yeah.
19:40
So. Mouth wide, as we called it.
19:43
As we think through the college time before we transition into
19:46
leaving the IFP and the journey there, one of the things that me
19:51
and John and me and Brett often talk about is our actual
19:53
training experience for us at Champion.
19:57
I think that the the love for people was trained in us to have
20:02
this natural love and serving attitude, but the education was
20:07
lacking. So in your time, while you were
20:11
at Tennessee Temple, were there shrinks that you can look back
20:14
and then maybe where did they fall short in the training side
20:17
of it as far as an educational institute?
20:20
Sure. You know, I went in as a music
20:22
major. That was my thoughts.
20:24
I traveled singing Southern gospel before Tennessee Temple.
20:27
And so I was like, I'm going to go into music major.
20:28
Well, quickly in the first semester, I realized I Can't
20:31
Sing opera, nor do I play the piano and music majors there.
20:35
It was like 6 hours of voice practice, 4 hours of piano
20:38
practice a week because I forget this.
20:40
So I switched my major to political science.
20:42
I'm still trying to play baseball.
20:44
I went on as a scholarship to play baseball there and, and so
20:47
I didn't really do the school thing the first couple years.
20:50
And then sophomore year, I come back from North Carolina, call
20:54
me to preach. And so I switched my major, went
20:56
into pastoral studies and I had a professor by the name of
20:59
Doctor Jerry Hall. He's down in Dothan, AL now.
21:02
And what I'm telling you, one of the most profound lessons that
21:04
I've ever gotten, and I've talked about this multiple
21:06
times. He he brought, he brought all of
21:08
us in here. We are ready to preach.
21:11
You know, you remember what it's like when you're called.
21:12
You're ready to grab hell by the tail and stick it in your
21:17
pocket. I can't remember the thing.
21:18
Anyhow, we we go out to the LRC, full suits, full ties, big
21:25
bibles ready to go. He said come on fellas, we're
21:27
going to go somewhere. And we walk down to the dumpster
21:30
behind the cafeteria. There's shovels and Rakes and
21:34
brooms. He said we're going to clean
21:35
this today. We're in our best Sunday best
21:38
like we're in our best suits. We got our bibles and we're
21:41
sweeping up nasty food, smelly food.
21:44
We get back, we're all hot and sweaty.
21:45
Said what y'all learn they're like it's hot.
21:48
He's like pastoring, pastoring. You think it's going to be one
21:52
way, but you're going to find out there's a lot of other
21:53
things. Preaching is this much of the
21:56
big thing and and that was one of the most profound lessons.
21:58
You know, honestly, I got from that class because the rest of
22:01
it was just preacher boys preaching and it was horrible.
22:04
But you know, I, I think on the, the, for my major, pastoral
22:09
major, you know, a lot of it was surface level.
22:13
I remember, you know, homiletics and hermeneutics was taught by
22:17
the same person. We get into hermeneutics and you
22:20
know, he's deducting points 'cause you have a, a tie on
22:22
that's a little too long, but he's got a Looney Tunes tie
22:24
that's touching his kneecaps. We're like, what are we doing
22:27
here? You know, there, there was not a
22:29
lot of depth when it came to knowledge.
22:31
And come to find out, it was a lot of guys that had no pastoral
22:34
experience that were teaching some of these classes.
22:36
So they're teaching you how to pastor, but they had no pastoral
22:39
experience. It was just somebody that was
22:41
filling a role there. In all honesty, Temple was was
22:46
it was accredited. It was good.
22:48
I just like at at some point it would, it had to go beyond
22:52
surface level. And that was what Temple was.
22:55
It was really surface level. And a lot of us, our training
22:59
happened after we left and really started diving deep into
23:02
it. Yeah, I can agree with that.
23:05
My time at Champions the same way, you know, we didn't realize
23:09
the surface level teaching at the time, but like I said, the
23:14
the the ability to serve and the teaching of how to serve and how
23:17
to be a pastor was definitely there.
23:19
And you know, flip side, I thought these guys that come out
23:22
of Southeastern and Southern and they're like, I just want to
23:25
study all day. But when it they they're put in
23:27
the room with a hurting person. Yeah, no clue.
23:30
I don't know what to do right now.
23:32
They're they're, they didn't teach me this in the books and
23:34
there's no book to tell me. And So what I rather one or the
23:39
other, it's hard to say because yeah, I love the education side,
23:43
but being able is, is so vital in the ministry and being able
23:48
to serve is, is massive. So.
23:51
It's a lot of go ahead, Brett, go ahead.
23:55
I think there's a there's a lot of head knowledge, but no common
23:58
sense. And it was, you know, I don't
24:00
know how much head knowledge there was like there was a lot
24:02
of Bible being taught, but no application, you know, no, you
24:06
know, I left there and started while I was still a student,
24:10
student pastoring and I was like, and they're not teaching
24:14
me anything with how to pastor. I I took not one class that
24:18
helped me counsel somebody, not one class that helped me really
24:22
put rubber to road and run. You know, it was all just more
24:26
the surface level. It was a mile wide and an inch
24:29
deep kind of thing. It was like, Hey, it looked
24:31
good. And really what I realized a lot
24:33
of the classes were just training to look like the dudes
24:36
that were coming and preaching at Chapel.
24:37
How to grow a big school, how to grow a big church.
24:40
How did you know when it was always this bigger is better?
24:42
So it was like how to do this and this Well, you got to you
24:45
got to look this part, you know, I mean, hermeneutis class wasn't
24:48
really about how to preach. It was what we had on, you know,
24:51
and it was, it's just weird thinking about it.
24:53
There was a guy, one of our professors, he was actually Jack
24:57
House's grandson in He would walk in Monday morning and he'd
25:11
go, all right, guys, it was pastoral counseling or whatever.
25:15
And he'd say, this happened yesterday at my church.
25:17
This is what was going on. How do you respond to this
25:20
situation? And it's like, what?
25:22
What Like he's like, yeah, this is how, how do you think you
25:26
should respond? We sort of walked through it,
25:28
but it was just that practical. This is how we're going to do
25:31
things. And I I mean I I.
25:32
Love John. He's one of the great, great one
25:34
of my favorite professors that we have at all time.
25:36
Brett, go ahead. I'll tell you that at, you know,
25:39
how's Anderson, You know, Jack Kyles famously didn't believe in
25:43
hermeneutics. So we didn't have a hermeneutics
25:46
class and we didn't know how to interpret the Bible, and we only
25:50
had homiletics. But he didn't like that, so he
25:53
called it preaching class. And I had it with Jack Scott.
25:56
And the only thing I got from it was how to strut, how to write
26:00
an outline on a paper. But I was never taught how to
26:03
study for message. I came out of tri-state and
26:06
House Anderson not knowing anything about how to preach.
26:10
And so I can definitely sympathize with with what with
26:14
what you're saying. I will say the one story though,
26:17
before we move on, I do remember that there was one time where
26:22
Lee Robertson had his briefcase stolen with all his sermons in
26:26
it. Do you remember this?
26:28
I vaguely do remember that. It was a big thing and how's
26:32
Anderson and you that he got his his briefcase on and what not?
26:35
You being his driver, I didn't know if you knew anything.
26:38
About that before my time. So transitioning away from that,
26:42
we want to go into now your your ministry journey.
26:45
We want to talk about you leaving the IFB and your
26:49
departure from it. And so our question to you is,
26:53
was this kind of a, a slow unraveling?
26:57
Was there a defining moment or had it been building up over
27:00
time and there was a? Straw that.
27:02
That broke the camel's back. What did that look like for you?
27:05
Yeah, I wish I could say there was a straw that broke the
27:08
camel's back. I have one story that we've,
27:11
we've actually talked about on the podcast and I called the guy
27:13
out and I'm still waiting on my $2500 in crisp $100 bills.
27:18
By the way, found the tape. But I think that would be the,
27:22
and I'll tell you here in a second, but really looking back,
27:26
I think 1617 years old being in youth groups and listening to my
27:33
youth pastor preach messages that made no sense, but always
27:38
ended up in hell. And, you know, he wanted to go
27:41
play this new volleyball court outside that we raise money for
27:45
and build. And he would always say,
27:47
literally, we're not playing volleyball until people are
27:49
broken on this altar. And at 1617 years old, we're
27:52
back there playing paper, rock, scissors to see who's going to
27:55
go down and cry, fake cry, kind of yawn to try to get tears up.
27:58
And I remember 16 years old, I drove to youth groups.
28:02
It was my very first time driving to youth groups.
28:04
And I'm at this altar because I want to go play volleyball and
28:06
meet Little Caesar's Pizza. And I'm literally yawning,
28:09
trying to work up tears in my eyes just so it looked like I
28:13
did business. And I'm sitting there and I
28:16
asked myself, what am I actually doing?
28:19
Like what? What is the point of being here
28:20
right now? I know I'm waiting until the
28:23
certain point. Everybody that goes to the altar
28:24
knows that at a certain point you all stand up.
28:26
Even though we don't talk to each other.
28:28
It's just magic. Everybody stands up at the same
28:30
time, hugs and goes back. And I remember asking myself,
28:32
what what is actually happening? What is the point of this?
28:36
And it was then that the question started happening.
28:39
And there's really a guy named Ronnie Brown, good friend of
28:42
mine. He, he, he has gone back on
28:45
y'all know Ronnie, he went to Israel with us.
28:47
He has gone back to Temple Baptist and has pulled all of
28:50
our sermons, the services from like the early 90s to mid 2000s.
28:56
And there's a point as I'm watching some of these where I
28:59
can see the change starting happening in me.
29:02
I'm up in the choir loft and I'm starting to just not question.
29:06
I wasn't rebellious. I wasn't like, you know, looking
29:09
at at all of this from RFP angle, if you will, but I could
29:13
tell something was different. And then when I got to Tennessee
29:16
Temple, just seeing the crazy rules and a lot of those things
29:20
started changing. And I really don't think it was
29:22
until 2003, 2004, when I became a youth pastor for the first
29:26
time at an independent Fundamental Baptist Church
29:29
working in IT, that I really saw the behind the scenes and how
29:34
legalism really functioned in that church.
29:37
Of course, the pastor I worked for two months after I got there
29:41
was fired for embezzlement. And I saw the behind the scenes
29:45
of an IFB church for the first time.
29:47
And so my journey was not this one defining moment.
29:51
However, there was a one defining moment with brother
29:54
Phil Kidd that that really helped just kind of seal the
29:57
deal. And I knew then, OK, we're done.
30:00
Like things are changing from here on out.
30:02
But my journey was a slow progress out, just starting to
30:07
pay attention, starting to realize things are off.
30:10
That's not in the Bible, that that's that dude's idea that
30:14
he's trying to make a verse fit. And it was just this slow
30:18
progress out. I would say probably around
30:20
2006, I walked away completely. I met my wife and I was working
30:27
at that independent Fundamental Baptist Church.
30:28
We started dating and I told her, I said, I'm, I'm done.
30:31
I'm not raising a family in this kind of environment.
30:35
And we were even talking about getting married then.
30:37
And so we left and I joined a, a church that was an SBC church
30:41
plant. And you want to talk about a
30:43
whole different world. Like, I mean, I went from like
30:46
two different worlds here as a youth pastor, youth pastoring
30:49
from an independent fundamental Baptist Church to ASBC church,
30:52
plant church. It was like two different
30:54
worlds, but I kind of walked away and then for the next
30:57
however many years it was, it was just this like, OK, I'm I'm
31:02
glad I left that. And then we started the podcast.
31:04
It was like I jumped right back in the middle of all of that
31:07
garbage, you know, and, and bringing back a lot of that
31:09
stuff. So Brett, to answer your
31:10
question, there wasn't one defining moment.
31:13
I think there was a defining like evening that really helped
31:18
me really like, OK, I'm done. I'm walking away from this.
31:21
And for those that don't know and have not heard, that was
31:24
brother Phil Kidd preaching at Faith Baptist Bible Camp in
31:27
Rusaka, Georgia. And I had taken a youth leader
31:30
that had asked a girl who I've been trying to get into youth
31:34
groups. She was 1516 years old,
31:36
pregnant, very big pregnant. I tried to get her to youth
31:40
groups. She finally came, had a youth
31:42
leader that told her to leave. She was a bad influence on the
31:45
other teenagers. I was like what are you doing?
31:47
That girl never came back to youth group.
31:48
She never came back to church. So I took this youth leader, me
31:51
and him wore tank tops, shorts and flip flops and went to Faith
31:54
Baptist Bible Camp in Rusack of Georgia.
31:56
And we walked in and brother Phil Kidd got up and he
31:59
literally was preaching on hell so high he he said these words.
32:03
I preached a whore right out of church.
32:05
She was in the House of God in a pair of pants and I preached
32:08
that whore right out of church and I looked at the guy that I
32:11
brought and I said, do you know why I brought you here?
32:13
He's like, yeah, I do. I said, do you feel like you
32:16
made that 15 year old girl feel at youth groups the other night?
32:18
He said yes, said don't ever treat anybody like that.
32:21
We stood up to leave and that's where Brother kid called us a
32:25
good adjective there. And I willed around, said you
32:29
ought to be ashamed of yourself. And we took off out of there.
32:31
And I got to confront him a couple years later.
32:34
But I would say that was like my defining moment of walking away.
32:37
But it was a long progress from about 16, just starting to see
32:41
behind it. But bro, I was in the thick of
32:43
it. Sixteen, 1718 years old.
32:44
I'm singing at camp meetings, I'm doing all the temple stuff.
32:47
And it was all really just kind of fake if you think about it.
32:52
I also didn't get saved till I was 22 years old, so I was fake
32:56
as a $3 bill all the way through it.
32:59
Flipped that part right there out and sent it to Cody Zorn
33:01
because apparently you're not saved and and trying to figure
33:04
that one out. All the fruit inspector.
33:07
That's right. The good fruit inspector, as we
33:10
leave the IB and as we left this, this is a question that I
33:13
like to ask and I like to retrospectively think about as
33:16
well, because oftentimes guys will say, oh, they're just left
33:19
their heritage. They left their, their, their
33:21
whatever. When, when we think of leaving,
33:24
it's not that we have burned it down and we're, we're, you know,
33:28
whatever there, there are some things that we can appreciate.
33:30
And I know you guys on the RFP did a whole episode on things
33:33
that we love and things that we still cherish.
33:36
I want to ask one question in two different ways.
33:39
I want to ask it that what's the one thing that you appreciate
33:42
the most about your IFP background?
33:45
And what's the one thing that you wish you could unlearn that
33:49
you learned? That's a good question.
33:52
I think the one thing that I, I, I appreciate the most is just
33:56
the attention to scripture memorization.
33:59
I mean, I, I memorized so much scripture growing up in Awana,
34:02
Cubby, Sparks, pals, chums, pioneers.
34:04
That's the old school Awana, like I mean getting those
34:07
things, the Timothy awards, the Excellence Awards, all those but
34:11
memorizing scripture and now in my brain it's all King James.
34:15
So if I go to quote it, man, it's coming out and spat and
34:17
spit and they and thou like I'm I'm memorizing it there.
34:20
But that is the most important thing.
34:22
My kids now I'm like, guys, if y'all only had the scripture
34:26
memorization that we had, I'm trying to get them to memorize
34:28
verses and how that was driven into our brains.
34:31
And I'm thankful for that because you know that that's
34:33
what gives you hope. In the dark.
34:34
You get it in the light, you know, you don't have to see hope
34:36
to have hope. We got it memorized, you know,
34:38
and, and that that that's probably the biggest thing that
34:41
I'm thankful for. The thing that has stuck with me
34:46
is, is and this is going to be so broad, you're going to be
34:49
like vomit. But is this like bit towards
34:52
legalism? And you know, the honestly,
34:54
that's why we call the podcast the recovering fundamentalist
34:57
podcast, because it's innately in US.
35:00
My, my go to at times is legalism to to question validity
35:05
of somebody's story, to, to doubt when I hear something
35:10
that's positive to, to look at somebody in the way that they're
35:13
doing that. And I'm like, hold up.
35:15
That's not how the Bible. So, and then I'm like, wait a
35:17
second, that's legalism. You know, and I think my, and I
35:20
know that's so broad and trashy to give you an answer like that,
35:23
but it, it's this. And that's why we called it the
35:26
Recovering Fundamentalist podcast, because we're always
35:29
going to have this bent towards legalism.
35:32
And when I see a church service, when I hear something, my first
35:35
go to is, is legalism because it's in me.
35:38
It's the thing that was driven in US.
35:41
And then I have to stop, collaborate and listen.
35:43
And I'm like, OK, hold up. Why?
35:45
Why did I just go there? Let's pause.
35:48
Is this Bible? And then I look at it in a
35:50
different lens. Thankfully, today it's a lot
35:53
less than what it was 20 years ago.
35:56
But I think if there's one thing that is held on, that would be,
35:59
that would be it. I know that for me personally,
36:02
when I walked away, there were some doctrinal things that.
36:06
Were big. Issues that I've been taught
36:08
that just weren't right. There were doctrines that like
36:12
the Baptist bride and other things like that were just
36:15
ridiculous. There were there were other
36:17
things like some of my eschatology that I dropped re
36:20
examined and and so I want to ask.
36:23
You were there specific doctrinal shifts that help you?
36:27
Move away from that world. Yeah, I'm not that deep.
36:32
I mean, to be honest with you, I don't think there was.
36:34
I, I, I never got into arguments.
36:36
I wasn't, you know, post print meeting like I'm like, Jesus
36:41
wins, you know, and that's always been my answer and it got
36:43
me in a lot of trouble because I mean, we're praying millennial
36:46
return of Jesus. I say, man, and I'm like, hey,
36:48
Jesus wins. I don't know, you know, and so I
36:51
never really got into those kind of arguments, numerology, you
36:56
know, eschatology, all of those things.
36:58
It, it was not something that I really sit around and had those
37:02
conversations with. So I I don't think there was
37:06
specific docturnal shifts. The thing that I've harped on
37:10
the most if they're I don't even know if it's a doctrinal
37:13
position, but would be the King James version only ISM.
37:17
I mean, it's idolatry, you know, and I hit on that one.
37:20
But as far as docturnal stuff, there's I've always been a loose
37:26
cannon. You know, I've, I've always just
37:27
like, I'm, I'm going to call stuff out.
37:29
I'm like, that's kind of dumb if you think about it.
37:31
That's why I stayed in trouble a lot of times too.
37:34
So you were connected to Doctor Robertson and as you left and
37:39
and been with him for many years driving and spending time with
37:42
him, part of your leaving was sort of leaving that heritage as
37:47
well from what you had and that and what was the hardest part
37:51
about leaving? You know, honestly, it didn't.
37:54
It was actually at his funeral. Where because of my role,
37:59
getting to drive him around, I got to set up with the IFB
38:03
elite, if you will. And I remember sitting on that
38:06
row, second row, third row, on the left hand side at Highland
38:10
Park Baptist Church, right behind some very influential
38:15
independent fundamental Baptist pastors that were taking shifts,
38:18
being on the stage. You know, this guy would turn
38:22
around and be like, you're stupider for sitting behind me.
38:24
And, and I remember him sitting there and at the end of this
38:28
funeral, he said, this is the death of fundamentalism.
38:32
And I remember hearing that. And I was thinking, what are we
38:34
talking about here? This is a great man, but it's
38:37
not the death of fundamentalism. It may be the death of his brand
38:40
of fundamentalism, but it's not the death of fundamentalism.
38:43
And honestly, I'm thankful for that opportunity to drive him
38:47
those last three or four years of his life, because it was it
38:50
was that opportunity to see he's really not this like cult
38:53
leader. He was a good man, but it was it
38:56
was for me, just an opportunity to say, how do we bring the
39:00
freshness, the life, the realness, the love and the
39:03
passion for Jesus that he brought to this and their brand,
39:08
their style of fundamentalism that is dying.
39:11
How do we bring life to that? And that's where, you know, I
39:14
talked about it on our last episode where I prayed God, I
39:16
want to do something. And, you know, who would have
39:18
thought the podcast would be born And that would be kind of
39:21
the tool that God used for a season for us to to do their.
39:25
But I don't think my relationship with him really
39:28
helped or hurt me. Leaving if if you will.
39:32
Well, I'll tell you what we want to transition now.
39:35
We want to talk about Hope Church because brother Hope
39:38
Church is killing it in North Georgia.
39:41
And just so excited. I remember looking on your on
39:46
your social media and seeing that barn when y'all started out
39:50
in that barn and then seeing where you are right now.
39:53
But we want to give you an opportunity to tell us about
39:57
Hope Church. What's the what's the heart?
40:00
What's the mission behind it? Hope Church is a family
40:04
following the way of Jesus. We live by faith, we're known by
40:07
love, and we strive to be a voice of hope in the community
40:10
around us. And that's more than just some
40:12
vinyl letters we put up on the wall.
40:14
It's more than just who we are as a a gathering.
40:18
Hope Church started here in Ringgold, GA coming up on three
40:22
years. It's crazy.
40:23
It's already been almost three years ago now.
40:25
I honestly didn't want to do it. I was college pastor down in
40:29
Savannah, GA area, Statesboro and moving home was what we
40:33
wanted to do. I believe God's will is
40:35
practical, not mystical. And so I was like, hey, you
40:38
know, I, I hate South Georgia. I was going to be honest.
40:40
It's too hot and there's way too many gnats and there's a big
40:43
difference in South Georgia and North Georgia people.
40:45
We're just North Georgia people. That's, that's just how it is.
40:47
We're rednecks and you know, moving home, it was the right
40:52
thing to do. My calendar was really full.
40:55
I had a lot of speaking engagements.
40:57
And so we said let's go home and be around family and we'll just
41:01
find us a church and I'll travel in the podcast and we'll do
41:04
that. Well, we get back here and I
41:07
spent probably a good three months, you know, hitting a
41:11
church and then going to a coffee shop.
41:12
And I'm realizing the coffee shops around here are packed on
41:16
Sundays and just having these conversations with people.
41:19
Why aren't you in church? Like, you know, why are you here
41:21
not there? And they're like, this is our
41:22
community. And I was like, OK, intentional
41:24
community. And then the conversations led
41:26
to, are you going to start a church?
41:28
And I was like, no, that's, that's literally the last thing
41:30
I want to do was to start a church.
41:32
I've never really seen myself as a lead pastor.
41:35
I've always, you know, for the 1st 20 plus years, student
41:39
pastor, college pastor, campus pastor, but we prayed about it
41:43
and said, oh hey, let's just put it out there.
41:44
So we threw it out on social media.
41:46
Hey everybody, we're going to start a church.
41:49
We're going to gather for the first time Halloween 2022.
41:53
If you're unchurched, if you're looking for a church, come check
41:57
us out. We had 74 people show up the
41:59
first night at a barn on Halloween.
42:02
Our kids were digging in some dirt.
42:04
I don't really know where they were at.
42:05
And I was like, this is crazy. We sang some songs and I I
42:09
preached the message and I was like, y'all want to do this next
42:12
week? And they said yes.
42:13
And so the next Sunday we came back at 7:00 PM and we had 124
42:19
adults show up and about 15 kids.
42:22
And our kids, literally this time there was a rodeo arena
42:25
next to us. They were chasing a baby calf
42:27
around that rodeo arena the entire time was like, that's the
42:30
best childcare we've ever had in our life right there.
42:32
Talk about kids ministry. We we left that Sunday and I was
42:38
like, OK, we can't meet in the barn anymore.
42:40
So I drove through the chicken marker battlefield, which is a
42:44
Civil War historic place. Came out on the other side and
42:46
there was 120 year old building that I noticed only had a few
42:51
cars and I saw a guy walking at the door.
42:53
I didn't know who this guy was. I've just learned not to say
42:56
somebody's no for him. So I pulled up.
42:57
I said hey guys, how y'all doing?
42:59
I said good. I said listen, this is a crazy,
43:02
crazy thing. I've got 2 questions for you.
43:03
One will be easy. The other one, I hope it doesn't
43:05
make you mad. He said what's up?
43:07
I said would would y'all be willing to rent your building to
43:10
a new church plant that is just starting out?
43:12
We've got, we're meeting in a barn but we've outgrown it.
43:15
He's like yeah dude, we don't do anything on Sunday nights.
43:17
So great. He's like, what's your second
43:19
question? I said, well, I can't help but
43:21
notice, and I mean no offense, but y'all, you know, there's
43:23
only a handful of people here. Would y'all just want to merge
43:26
in with us and we just kind of take over on Sunday mornings and
43:30
y'all just become part of what we're doing and we'll run from
43:33
there. And he said, interesting, We
43:35
just had a meeting about selling this building.
43:37
They were running about 8 to 15 people.
43:40
And a Long story short, met with them on Black Friday of 2022,
43:45
day after Thanksgiving. They said, what's your vision?
43:47
I was like, man, listen, I, I don't know, we're doing this
43:50
church plant completely backwards.
43:51
Don't tell anybody. But the, The thing is, I just
43:55
want to see people in Catoosa County prosper.
43:57
That, that's my hope. I, I feel like God has taken us
44:00
to Salt Lake City. He brought us back to Catoosa
44:02
County. We went to Statesboro, GA, He's
44:05
brought us back to Catoosa County.
44:07
And I just feel like Nehemiah in a way.
44:09
He's serving as the King's cupbearer in Susham, but his
44:12
heart was in Jerusalem because the gates were torn down, the
44:15
walls were destroyed. And this is Caduceus County is
44:18
is here. And my heart has always been
44:20
here. So Long story short, we picked
44:23
up as a five week old church, we picked up a $4500 a month rent
44:28
plus playing electric and water. Never missed a payment, never
44:32
asked for a like a a buffer on that.
44:35
That's just God's faithfulness and kindness and outbrew that
44:38
building quickly. We were in it about a year
44:40
pushing three services. And then the current building
44:43
that we're in now, we haven't even been in this building a
44:46
year. It's been awesome.
44:47
We've already kind of outgrown it and now the contractors not
44:51
wanting to up our lease. And so we're, we're waving the
44:53
white flag of surrender. We, we could be out of this
44:56
building by December and we're like, alright, God, what's next?
44:58
I need to give old lock a call and see how they did the tent
45:01
thing cuz that may be where we're at.
45:03
Sawdust on the floor, right man? But it's going great.
45:06
I mean, God, because I never thought I'd pastor a church,
45:10
much less plant a church. It's been difficult.
45:14
It's been amazing. The pay sucks, but it's great
45:18
because you know, we're, we're learning as we go.
45:21
We just baptized last Sunday. We baptized our 81st person in 2
45:25
1/2 years as a church. That's awesome.
45:28
We don't send those numbers out or post them or anything.
45:30
I was like, maybe I can get my name in a magazine or a plaque
45:33
on the wall or something. But you know, we're, we're
45:35
unaffiliated, we're non denominational, we're no network
45:39
or any of that stuff. And so it's, I'm kind of
45:42
independent fundamental Baptist, again, if you think about it,
45:45
man. So it's, it's, it's awesome.
45:48
I'm absolutely loving it. Yeah.
45:50
So what's been your approach that's been maybe different than
45:53
what was funneled into you? I know you've got Spider man
45:56
there behind you. For those that aren't watching,
45:58
they're just are you the friendly neighborhood, JC Groves
46:02
and Hope Church trying to do things.
46:04
But what's been the difference? Like we were told one way, this
46:07
is how you reach people Preach the King Games 3 to thrive.
46:11
Now you're doing things that are completely different.
46:13
What's been your approach to that and how did you model that?
46:16
In all honesty, taking it back from my car rides with Lee
46:19
Robertson, if if you think about it, the thing I say all the time
46:22
is be the same. Personally, publicly, privately.
46:24
I've said that so many times here.
46:27
We're just real. We wanted to do an intentional
46:30
push for community. One of the things that we say is
46:33
intentional community. We went from our first building.
46:37
We had 600 feet of lobby space. That's like 8 people in your
46:42
pack. And so community never happened.
46:44
It was also an old movie theater.
46:46
There was literally a slant that was so steep we had a
46:50
wheelchair. The brakes gave way in her
46:52
electric wheelchair. 1 Easter and she starts rolling.
46:55
I was like, hold up, somebody put the brakes on her that it
46:58
gives new meaning to Holy roller.
46:59
So there was just no way for community to happen.
47:03
We move into this building, we now have 6000 square feet of
47:06
community space. And I'm not joking, We have to
47:08
tell people to leave on Sunday because they're here an hour,
47:11
hour and a half, two hours after service, hanging out, sitting in
47:14
the. And so we wanted to create this
47:16
lobby with the idea of community.
47:18
We've got soft seating, we've got tables, we've got, you know,
47:21
coffee areas. And that has been incredible.
47:24
It's intentional community. We're we're, we're actually
47:28
crazy enough. We're going back to a Wednesday
47:30
night Bible study. You know, we're, we start Sunday
47:33
school, y'all, we're full circle.
47:35
We're not doing that by the way, but it, it's just been this
47:38
whole idea of just creating a space that people can come and,
47:43
and we don't use slogans. We don't use churchy words like
47:45
no perfect people allowed or come as you are.
47:48
We just, we open the door, we welcome them and it's genuine
47:52
and, and people are are buying into that.
47:55
And it's not like we're trying to sell them.
47:57
There's no bait and switch. We preach Jesus.
48:00
There's and it's crazy because I've been part of churches that
48:02
have the purple lights and the hazer and all that stuff.
48:04
Nothing against it. We just, we don't have the money
48:07
money to do it. So we turn on the lights and we
48:09
go, you know, and it's just been awesome.
48:11
And we're, we're finding folks are digging into the word.
48:14
There's a hunger to read the Bible.
48:16
This is something that's really cool.
48:18
We, I realized every time I get up, I say, Hey, take your Bibles
48:21
and open up to and I'll tell my passage of Scripture.
48:24
And I realized that a lot of people didn't have a Bible.
48:27
And that's 2025. You know, a lot of people are on
48:30
their phones or their iPads, but there's just something, hey man,
48:33
about turning pages and hearing the pages turn.
48:35
So we went out and bought 150 of these new Living Translation,
48:40
which is the version I love, by the way, of these Filament Bible
48:43
editions, which it's a basic Bible, but if you hold your
48:46
phone over it, it will open up a plethora of apps and things like
48:51
that. And so we bought 150 of these
48:53
and sold 150 Bibles in 8 minutes.
48:56
And now on Sundays, it's crazy, I'll get up and say, hey, take
48:59
your Bibles. And I literally see half of our
49:01
congregation like turning in their pages.
49:03
It's been great. We're a young church, lot of
49:05
people learning about Jesus for the first time.
49:08
We also have a lot of pastors. I have probably 6 pastors right
49:12
now that are either out of ministry or transitioning or
49:14
burnt out. And so you've got this like
49:16
weird dynamic. We're preaching to, you know,
49:19
pontificate on isoteric etheria to the point these guys can get
49:22
it. But also, I had a guy walk up to
49:24
me that's been saved a year and he's like, dude, I read about
49:26
these three boys that got thrown into a fireman.
49:29
I'm like, this is such a weird, weird world we're living in, you
49:31
know, but it's, it's awesome. I'm, I'm loving every second of
49:36
it. God's bless.
49:37
And we're just, we don't know what our next steps are.
49:40
And so we're just praying and believing and trusting and hey,
49:43
listen, it's God's church. He'll do it.
49:44
He's doing a great job with it. All three of ours.
49:47
We just got to steward it well. So that's that's what we're
49:49
trying to do. Amen.
49:51
So JC you, you you've entered into this new season of your
49:56
ministry and our our question is we're curious what's been like
50:03
the most refreshing part like man, it's like a.
50:06
Breath of fresh air in. This new season of ministry.
50:10
But then what's the other thing on the other end of the spectrum
50:13
that's like been like the most challenge challenging, like so
50:17
challenging it kind of surprised you.
50:21
Yeah, I think me personally not getting into the weeds of
50:27
knowing how to do ministry and not being able to buy ministry
50:30
because I've worked at some big churches that have big budgets.
50:34
I mean, I was a campus pastor of a multi campus church that had
50:38
major dollars and so ministry was bought and it wasn't
50:42
necessarily taught, it was just bought.
50:44
If we wanted to do it, we bought it.
50:45
We did it, then we come to church plan and we ain't got no
50:48
money y'all. And so it's kind of like, OK,
50:51
we've got a, we've got a cast vision.
50:52
I have a full staff, all volunteer.
50:55
You want to talk about having to not just cast vision, but keep
51:00
vision fresh, keep them encouraged to keep pressing on.
51:03
I mean, a full volunteer staff, that's people doing a job that a
51:08
paid 40 to $50,000 person would do and they're doing it with
51:13
excellence. There's something about the buy
51:15
in that comes with that. That's been incredible there.
51:19
You know, the the keeping a church.
51:21
We've had great growth and that's good.
51:24
We're excited about that. But with that comes this
51:27
expectation that you're established.
51:30
And then when you get behind the scenes, you realize, my
51:32
goodness, we are a 2 1/2, three-year old church.
51:34
We don't have the, the opportunities to do missions
51:37
yet. We're we're still trying to keep
51:39
the lights on. You know, I just started getting
51:41
paid in July. So that's two years of no
51:44
payment. You know that that's rough when
51:46
you're when you got six kids and, you know, trying to work
51:49
six other jobs of Uber and Uber Eats and you know, all this
51:53
stuff. So, so there's the, the, the
51:55
sexy side of it, but then you see the other side and you're
51:57
like, man, it's, it's difficult. But when I look at the difficult
52:00
things, a lot of that is more personal.
52:02
A lot of that is, is breaking down this idea of how to do
52:06
church and just what does it mean to jump in with community
52:09
based? And so that's, that's kind of
52:11
been the thing. Plus the other side is, is we're
52:14
young. There's a lot of new Christians.
52:17
There's a lot of people because of my podcast that are coming
52:21
here broke and beaten, crushed, bruised, hating church in all
52:25
regards. Legalism has played a role in
52:27
their life. So there's this like weird
52:29
balance of trying to help people understand the Bible for the
52:32
first time, but also helping people fall back in love with
52:36
Jesus and the God of the Bible, not 3 initials on the front of
52:40
the Bible. And so it's like this, this
52:42
interesting dynamic that we've got going on here.
52:45
And it's, it's a, it's a tension to manage, but it's a great
52:48
tension. And I wouldn't want to manage
52:50
any other tension, if that makes sense.
52:53
Love it. Well, let's go through our last
52:55
section here. If you've stuck with us this
52:57
long, hopefully you have we'll do a little rapid fire couple of
53:01
questions for you. You've made one statement
53:04
continually this entire episode of Be the Same personally,
53:07
publicly and privately that's stuck with you.
53:10
So we can't use that one to answer this if you wrote.
53:12
That. But what's a phrase or something
53:16
that you have said or heard that you continually find yourself
53:20
using today, even if it's ironically that you continue to
53:24
say it? Oh my goodness, I, I bite my
53:26
tongue every time I say it. Lord, just lead guiding direct
53:28
to say man. Oh, why did I say that Last
53:31
Sunday I prayed for a hedge of protection around this.
53:33
I was like, oh, wait a second, what it, what is that?
53:35
And I had one of our, one of our guys that did not grow up
53:38
independent fundamental Baptist. He was like, what is a hedge of
53:41
protection? I was like, don't worry about
53:43
it, it's just what we say here. But lead guiding direct, that's
53:47
the same thing. I heard AI heard a comedian,
53:50
John Rupp, he said, I'm from Hickory, He said the birth place
53:54
of NASCAR. He said NASCAR National
53:56
Association of stock car Automobile Racing, stock car
54:00
automobile, It's the same thing. It's like playing in the NFFFFFL
54:05
football Football League. Lead guiding direct, it's the
54:07
same thing. But that's one of my sayings.
54:10
Love it. So what's a book podcaster
54:13
teacher that helped reshape your thinking after leaving?
54:16
Oh man, one of my favorite books ever of course is The Great's
54:20
Awakening. That's a great book that I would
54:22
highly recommend. You and I cannot remember the
54:23
author's name. Do y'all remember it?
54:25
Duxwindall. Duxwindall.
54:26
Yeah, great book. I've read that book multiple
54:29
times. Listen to it on audio.
54:30
Just referenced it in a sermon a few weeks ago.
54:33
Great book there. There is a book by Lance Witt
54:36
called Replenish that has radically helped me in many,
54:41
many days of my life post IFB as a pastor.
54:48
It's just refreshing the soul leading from the overflow.
54:51
Those two books have been some of the best help that I've had
54:54
outside of scripture I think. Did you ask people or just books
54:59
and podcasts? Book podcast teacher.
55:03
Future I got a man by the name of Billy Wood.
55:06
He pastors in near Atlanta, GA one Baptist Church.
55:09
Billy has been a mentor of mine for a very long time.
55:13
He just tells it like it is. Billy is still independent,
55:15
fundamental Baptist, great dude, but he loves Jesus and he he
55:20
tells it straight. And while I'm walking through
55:24
this whole idea of the podcast 6-7 years ago, walking away from
55:29
legalism that you know, he's been the one that has really
55:32
helped me not just remember the good, the positive, but also has
55:37
challenged me and asked me hard question.
55:39
I have tried to surround myself with not yes men, but with guys
55:42
that will definitely give me push back.
55:44
Billy Wood, definitely one of the guys that that has really
55:48
helped me a lot. So those two books and Billy
55:51
love it. All right.
55:52
Last question and you can close with whatever you want to say
55:56
here as well. You can go back to Brett.
55:58
You got one more thing. Yeah, I got one more thing.
56:01
All right, go ahead, go ahead. OK, so real quick, I want to do
56:05
either or, all right? So you tell me which one that
56:08
you like better than the other. All right, KJV or new KJV?
56:15
King James baby. All right, King James or ESV?
56:20
King James. All right, KJV or NIV, James.
56:28
All right, KJV or NLT? Baby NLT all the way.
56:33
NLT or CSB? NLT.
56:36
NLT or New American? NLT.
56:41
All right, NLT or the message? I'm just kidding.
56:45
NLT all right. That's all I got.
56:47
Go ahead. I switched to the new living
56:49
translation, so one of the first things that I did.
56:52
This is crazy, but in 2001, I left Word of Life, came to
56:57
Tennessee Temple and I started reading.
56:59
I was given a New Living translation when I was at Word
57:02
of Life, even though they were King James down there.
57:05
And y'all, I'm telling you, the Bible started coming to life in
57:08
ways that I'd never passages I'd read, scriptures I'd read and
57:12
the New Living translation was just popping out of the page at
57:15
me And to the point where I preached in Chapel my sophomore
57:19
year of college and I read from the New Living Translation that
57:22
I copied it out and taped it in my King James Version Bible.
57:26
If you look through and I've got the Bible on my shelf behind me,
57:29
my King James Version Bible, I would take scripture and open it
57:33
up and there's pages of the new living translation taped inside
57:37
of my King James Version Bible. And, and nobody paid attention.
57:41
Nobody recognized the difference, but they understood
57:44
it. And I was like that I, I've,
57:46
I've used the new living translation.
57:48
That's what I preach from what I study, from what I, you know,
57:51
read New Living Translations. My version all the way.
57:55
About my wife was the same way. When I got her in ESC for the
57:58
first time she said she wanted a Bible that our past was
58:01
preaching out so she could follow along really easily and
58:04
really well. And she said, I started reading
58:07
it, and I just started bawling, like I could understand it.
58:10
And for the first time, I knew what the Bible was saying.
58:13
And it was one of those really cool moments as well.
58:17
Brett took you to an eye doctor just now.
58:19
This one or that one? This one.
58:20
Yeah, he did. That's what I felt like when I
58:22
go to the doctor every time. All right.
58:24
Last question. Threw the message in there.
58:26
My goodness. Yeah, he did.
58:28
If you could go back to young JC, 1990s two thousand, you're
58:33
at TTU, you're sitting there, you're you're absorbing all this
58:37
being fed into you. What would you tell?
58:40
What's that one advice that you would say to young JC at that
58:43
time? If I could go back and tell
58:47
young JC because I learned this later on in life, but I wish I
58:52
would have learned it earlier, is live from acceptance not for
58:57
acceptance. My whole life spent from 16 to
59:02
about 22 was living for the acceptance of others, the
59:06
approval of others, the applause.
59:10
Around 2223, I really there was a shift in my life.
59:15
I, I, I was walking away from legalism completely.
59:18
Finally. That was after that whole thing
59:20
that we just talked about with kid and it was learning to live
59:25
from who God had created me to be and, and not the applause,
59:28
the approval, the, the fraternity.
59:30
I started I, I wasn't part of the preacher boys group at our
59:33
church anymore. I, I wasn't wearing the suits
59:35
and ties. I wasn't carrying the King James
59:37
by while you know, and I started this pull away from this world,
59:41
if you will, that I had been in my whole life and learning to
59:45
live from acceptance, not for acceptance.
59:48
It radically changed my life. And if 16 year old JC could have
59:53
gotten ahold of what I got ahold of when I was about 23.
59:56
I just wonder where I'd be today because it would be, there would
59:58
be a lot of different decisions that would have been made
1:00:02
because I made a lot of those decisions based off of
1:00:05
acceptance from the point of moving to North Carolina, hello
1:00:09
to coming back to first job, to school and so.
1:00:12
Live from acceptance, not for acceptance.
1:00:16
Amen. And you know, I want to say as
1:00:18
we as we all kind of say our last words here about to sign
1:00:22
off here in just a minute, I'd like to say JC from a listener
1:00:28
of the Recovering Fundamentals podcast, know the podcast just
1:00:31
came to a close and I would just like to say a big thank you.
1:00:35
You didn't have to come back into this world, but you did.
1:00:40
And in doing so, you helped a lot of people, including myself.
1:00:45
I was transitioning out of the IFB at the time when I ran
1:00:51
across your you know, your your $2500 Fresh Clean Bills episode
1:00:57
and it. Really.
1:00:59
I got a hold. Of it.
1:01:00
And it really helped me. We talked about the island that
1:01:03
we're on, and that's what I felt like.
1:01:06
I felt like I was pastoring out in the middle of the Pacific
1:01:08
Ocean and it was a a community, it was a family that had had
1:01:14
experiences that that I had went through and knew the language
1:01:20
that I was speaking and kind of helped guide me into where I'm
1:01:25
at today. And I'm just very thankful for
1:01:28
the podcast, you and, and Brian and Nathan and just the whole,
1:01:33
the whole experience, the meetups, everything.
1:01:37
It made a big difference and impact on my life.
1:01:39
And I speak for all your listeners when I, when I say
1:01:41
this, just just thank y'all for investing in US.
1:01:47
And then, James, do you have something to say?
1:01:51
Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate the the support
1:01:54
you've given us allowing us to be part of the network when it
1:01:56
was a thing and the fun ups and downs and crazy drama that that
1:02:00
brought it. It was it was a great time and
1:02:03
looking forward to what we've got going on and us.
1:02:07
And this. Next stage you got coming up.
1:02:09
I'm extremely looking forward to it.
1:02:11
Yeah, followed the way I was looking forward to hearing that
1:02:14
and been a big supporter of that as well.
1:02:17
However, we can help. I'm thankful for the Four
1:02:20
Freedom podcast, you know, even all the way back with John and
1:02:24
you know, now that you got him off here and finally got a good
1:02:26
host with Brett, you know, I'm just kidding.
1:02:28
I I'm thankful. I mean, John couldn't grow beard
1:02:31
so. That's it, bless his heart.
1:02:33
No, y'all have. Y'all done a great job and you
1:02:35
know, I, I love as the old IFB says, you've picked up the
1:02:39
mantle and are running well with it, you know.
1:02:41
And, and hey, I will gladly hand the heat and the the all that
1:02:45
trash that people love to give over to y'all.
1:02:48
But man, RFP was a great run, 200 plus episodes.
1:02:52
We had some extras in there. You know, those those podcast
1:02:56
episodes will be out there for the rest of time.
1:02:58
We're thankful for that love. You know, that Ryan, Nathan and
1:03:01
I got to be a voice that helped a lot of people find
1:03:04
encouragement and hope and their voice, you know, for freedom.
1:03:08
You know, all the other podcasts that were part of that network
1:03:11
for a while, we ran in tandem and everything in life.
1:03:14
There's a season. And I'm excited to see the new
1:03:16
season as your podcast continues to take off as the following the
1:03:21
Way podcast launches in January of 2026.
1:03:24
And man, thanks for having me on today, guys.
1:03:27
It's always an honor to be on the For Freedom Podcast.
1:03:30
Go buy some cigars. Amen.
1:03:32
That's right. Well, until next time, to God be
1:03:34
the glory. Great things he has done.
1:03:39
Found my new name, found that good grace, found that healing.
1:03:45
And the tears fell down my face when I found my beginning.
1:03:49
It has no ending. I found that second chance,
1:03:50
found my best friend, Found my forgiveness, found my happiness.
1:03:53
I've been singing ever since. Thanks for listening to the Four
1:04:12
Freedom Podcast. If you enjoyed our content, do
1:04:15
us a favor by liking, subscribing, or sharing our
1:04:18
podcast or whichever podcast platform you use.
1:04:22
Be sure to join us next time for the Four Freedom Podcast.