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Partsy · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Over:
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
• 0:59
  One of the things that happened
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: in the process of the falling apart with my first therapist
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: is that she was so focused on not taking sides in politics that she forgot to take sides for humans. And one of those issues directly impacted me and my work abroad. I don't even need to get into it right now. But in the midst of the rupture that was already happening,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: it felt to me unforgivable that she could not comprehend my distress and horror related to these issues or the impact of the harm she caused by being complicit when she
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: did not stand up to bullies while replying to things publicly or trying to play neutral about things that were not neutral because they were people's lives. I know that's tricksy for a therapist because I am one. And also, trauma is trauma. Deprivation is deprivation. And when it's my turn on the couch, I need that therapist to listen to me.
• 3:01
  And it was that moment that I realized that my first therapist was not listening. That all the things I was going through to get
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: to her, to bring to her,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: and to wrestle through pragmatic issues of rural America. But none of it was going to work because she wasn't hearing me. This episode is not about politics,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: but it is about that experience in therapy today with my therapist now,
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: who by the time you hear this, will have been seeing for more than two years.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: That I felt safe with her differently today than I did back then.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Not because of who she voted for. She didn't tell me who she voted for. It's not about the election. It's that she understood my distress and my grief and my horror and my fear
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: and my responses to it. And because I was understood, there was attunement. Whether she agreed with any or some or none of what I said or not, she understood me.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: And I don't think I understood how much I needed that until today. Today was restorative for me from that. It also modeled for me how now time care can tend to memory time wounds even when we're not responsible for them. My therapist could have been defensive. She didn't cause the rupture ten years ago, six years ago, five years ago.
• 5:18
  Or when I was a child, similar things, right? That's how reenactments happen. Memory time crashing into now time. My therapist doesn't need to take responsibility for things she didn't cause, and also she tends to my feelings about them. And so it was healing for me and also new skills that I can practice with and take into my relationships when I'm trying to learn how to care for people when no one has cared for me.
• 6:07
  I'm not talking about the election or the politics today, just that piece. But it happened today, and
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: I wanted to share. I wanted
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: to give my therapist credit and I wanted to give me credit for receiving it because it feels big. Something is happening in therapy. I keep talking about the changing wins, but it's not all bad change. I don't mean that. But the winds are changing in therapy too.
• 6:37
  They smell like memory time. Like not just leaves freshly fallen from the tree, but musty leaves that have been piled on the ground. Leaves that make me sneeze when I rake them up.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: We're starting to go backwards into time. We're starting to fall apart enough, a little bit at a time.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: We're starting to do parts work again. Finally. Two years learning just to be safe on her couch. Two years learning that I can say no. Two years learning to pace things, to test things, to experience that she was going to keep me safe.
• 7:37
  Two years of practicing ruptures, not on purpose, but experiencing repairs. So that I know even a hard day or something goes wrong, she and I are still gonna be okay. And I think I needed all of that before I could let myself fall back into therapy for real.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: We have spent those two years trying
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: to not go to therapy or fall apart in therapy. I don't mean not get our body there. Mostly our body has been there. Although also we demanded some breaks in that, which our therapist respected and also let us come back when we were ready. Because at first, it was too hard to regulate, too hard to tolerate being back in therapy.
• 8:54
  So when things would get too big, we had to pause and told her so, that she listened to us then too. And I tried to listen to her by coming back when I was ready. My disorganized attachment showing even in my attendance. But I have been trying, and I am experiencing safety. And I do feel it starting to come again, that part's work.
• 9:43
  It was just protectors these two years, mostly. A couple of times we slipped and had to get it under control again. Sometimes that's part of why we took breaks. Because it wasn't time yet for John Mark or Littles, no matter how cool they think she is.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: They had to wait until it's safe.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: The way we grab the hands of our children even though they're teenagers because they still forget to look both ways before they cross the street. Just wait until it's safe enough. Courtney went first. At the beginning, to tell her all the reasons we could not and should not be in therapy. Taylor went some just to be mad about being in therapy and to negotiate some safety issues.
• 11:06
  And also while we were trying to reengage in therapy, so much was happening in real life. We were untangling from shiny happy. We are rearranging our life away from Nathan, but not running from Nathan. We had children becoming teenagers. And going through so much and also not knowing how to be loved ourselves.
• 11:59
  When healthy relationships are new and unfamiliar in some ways, And we have been constrained by schedules and parenting and trying to work and wanting to do projects together like the office or symposiums, other trainings, the classes we've been teaching, so much has been going on. My days are completely filled, maybe too much, but I was completely on my own and had to provide for myself. And with all of that happening in the background, it's hard to come into therapy and settle into a safe enough place to do parts work. And when so much in the world around me feels unsafe, it's hard to come to therapy and let myself relax into a place trancy enough to do parts work. And in the confusion of all of that, how do you leave with a healthy goodbye and also stay in a healthy friendship like with Nathan?
• 13:31
  Or let go of shiny, happy parenting while embracing the brand new humans that teenagers are.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: And then the election coming up at the time. It all felt more and more like hunger games.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: All of my relationships changing and not knowing who is safe. And my therapist understood that too
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: and did not shame me, that I could not tell the difference between an alliance and someone trying to hurt me.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: That's where Kat came from. I don't remember a specific moment, just an awareness that was growing. Maybe during the pandemic, watching hunger games over and over and over, fast forwarding through the scary bits, but drawing on the strength of her, of Katniss. The fierceness and the vulnerability, which is what those years required of us. Which became fierceness despite vulnerability, Survival.
• 15:19
  In the midst of dissociation, we resonate with those movies for that reason. I know we've talked about this before, but it kind of became a thing inside. And when coming out to myself, coming out with myself through seasons and shiny happy.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Meant that some alliances were lost or raptures in the community or emails full of hate.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Katniss just became more and more of a thing, more and more of a someone, until suddenly Kat was just there. If I, Emma, me, Emma, came
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: when we married Nathan
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: to try and do that, to be that.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: An m
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: came
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: to foster 87 children, to
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: raise the six who stayed, to guide the one who didn't need us, to guide the one who grew up without us. Then Cat came
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: to be us when they didn't work anymore. Who was I without Nathan?
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Who was M without parenting? Who were we without everything that had to find us? It was confusing and scary and hard. I see the same thing happening with my children. Differently,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: not necessarily parts, but the same impact and changes
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: that have been so big for all of us. This year, my youngest wrote a letter to Santa and to me. Even though it's not Thanksgiving yet.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: In the letter to me, I'd said
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: That she's old enough to understand the probability and facts of Santa Claus. And, also, she's worried she won't get presents if she doesn't still write a letter. And so she wrote a letter to Santa with her list. Even though she knew he doesn't. Even though she knows he doesn't.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: And my oldest, the same day, sent me an email from school
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: that they had found online
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: on their own without anyone telling them how to write the letter to leave the church.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: And they told me in the email that with respect to whatever I believe or papa believes, Nathan,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: that they want to sign the letter and send it in. And that as their parent, it's my job to take them to get it notarized. So could we please do that on Saturday?
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: And also, they have questions about the part that says all their blessings will be taken away. It felt like the same letter. A letter from one child about I'm going to ask just in case, and a letter from another child. I don't wanna ask anymore, but what if? And my grief and horror of my own role in any of that confusion.
• 22:36
  So we will have the conversations, and I will tend to the feelings because I'm the parent, and that's my job.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: And also, it was easier to tell you this story, to tell my therapist this story, than to keep talking about parts.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: I've been working really hard in therapy on noticing when memory time is invading now time. And that's how my therapist got sneaky about it. Not maliciously sneaky, just not quite subtle. Looking at my relationships
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: and kind of going backwards from there
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: because my memory time avoidance is so high after what happened before. So we've spent the last year talking about Nathan and through all of that transition. And then the decade before him when I avoided dating at all because it had been so disastrous when I tried.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: And so last week, my therapist asked me about the people before that,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: the relationships that ended in disaster, Some of whom I still grieve because they were good and beautiful and kind.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: And also we were not working, that all of that can be true.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: I know even that is avoidance because what she really wants to talk about is my partner who died by suicide.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: And that maybe that's playing into my big feelings when Jules leaves, that I'm afraid, not just sad.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: And that in memory time, even before that, even as a child,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: there are other losses no one has tended to, that parts of me are left alone in, that I need to tend to.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: And
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: theoretically, doing so will make now time easier.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: And theoretically, not doing so makes now time harder. And also it's hard. So I pace and pivot and come up for air and tell her all the other things I was avoiding besides this. But in doing so, talking about God and Santa, Christmas letters and letters of resignation,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: I find myself in therapy, realizing
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: it's me in therapy. Not a protector. Not Courtney or Katniss.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Just me. Tending to things, Saying the things.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Feeling the things. Slowly. Gently. Carefully,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: but doing it, showing up for myself.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: I keep saying that, but I think it's more of a reminder than an accomplishment. My therapist is actively and explicitly inviting other parts of me to come to therapy. And I can't argue with her that we're not
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: ready because I feel it, and I can't hold it back much longer.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: It's like the jar of marbles. Do you remember the marbles?
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: With my therapist that one time who told
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: me every time she did something helpful or I felt safe in therapy, I could put a marble in the jar. And every time she didn't or I didn't feel safe, I could take one out. I've been doing that in my head with this therapist. And my jar is full. And I'm about to spill out.
• 29:31
  Because maybe it was me that was the jar all along. Or maybe I'm one of the marbles, all of us in the jar together. Maybe the body is the jar. Our therapeutic relationship is the jar. I just feel contained and safe
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: enough and full.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: So what matters, I think, is
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: I take the jar to therapy and let it spill out there
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: instead of everything coming out sideways and other places in my life. I don't want to cause harm to
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: the people I love or deprivation to the people I love or even myself,
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: even her clients, my clients at work, or friends in the community.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: But the healthier I am, the healthier I'll be to show up in my own life. And if that's really what matters to me, then I have
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: to talk about the things in therapy. So it's a slow transition back into parts work for therapy. Maybe on the podcast too. Not just journaling the trauma drama of how hard life can be, but talking about why and letting myself heal
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: and helping myself heal.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: I've noticed it too on Marco Polo, seeing videos of myself and on the podcast, listening to old episodes while we worked on getting original episodes back up.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: The parts and pieces of me
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: trying to have
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: air, reaching for connection,
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: wanting to feel better. Do I think of me
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: specifically and why I'm here and what I need and what I have to offer? And I'm not sure I know yet, but I'm asking the questions.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: And when I had things to say in therapy today, I came and said the things. And telling you that now makes me curious if maybe in some ways I'm the most vulnerable of the adults. And that's why I went to therapy today. Not intentionally, not on purpose, at least not from me. But maybe it makes sense
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: that it is the
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: beginning of parts
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: work because I am one.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Not a part. I don't even like those words, parts. And for me, it's something way more than shirts because I'm not aware when the others are out. A lot of people use folks, but that's really hard for me because my very first therapist, the one who trained, the one that I lost, the one I
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: saw in college. She said folks a lot,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: so it's hard for me to use. The others inside, insiders, something I think feels more accurate to me, for me. But it feels like progress. Me being back in therapy. I mean, me specifically, myself.
• 34:54
  Not just protectors. I think they're always close. They say and do the things I am scared or too shy to say
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: or do. They are bold.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: They are strong.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: I am curious where
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: they got permission or why they don't need it. Maybe that's the first time I ever had my own question about the others, and I'm not sure what happens if I ask it. Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before. Not like this.
• 36:22
  Connection brings healing.