Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / Why Exam Results Don’t Define Your Child — or Their Future

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Why Exam Results Don’t Define Your Child — or Their Future · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. Year twelve
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: exam season kicks off this week in New South Wales
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: and around the country over the next few weeks. In
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: today's podcast, we're going to be short, sharp and focused.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: If your kids are in year twelve or they've got
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: exams coming up, even if they're not in year twelve,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: what matters? What doesn't? How do you get it right?
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: What do you do as a parent, how do the
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: kids navigate it? We're going to answer that and more
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: in just a moment. Stay with us. Hello and welcome
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: to the Happy Families Podcast. Real Paring Solutions every Day.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: This is Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: and Kylie Colson. Kylie, today we're stepping into short and
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: sharp conversations about how to help kids to succeed as
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: they do their year twelve exams or any exams at all.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: You've got three things that you've been thinking about. I've
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: got three things that I've jotted down and we are
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: going to kick that off right now. Let's do it
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: this way. I'm going to do one, then you can
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: do one, and then we'll sort of wrap it all up.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go first. My first one is as follows,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: you are not your atar. In two years, no one
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: is going to care about your atar. I know it
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: feels like it's big. I know it's big. I know
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: everybody's been telling you that this is the most important
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: time of your life. But it's just it's going to
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: be okay. You're not your atar, and you can be
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: successful in life even if you completely flunk year twelve.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: It really just comes down to finding the thing that
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: you want to do and focusing on that. I think
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: that the year twelve exams are massively overrated. I think
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: that they're very much about This is going to sound awful,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: but I think they're about a marketing ploy for schools
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: to say, look, how what our students did, so that
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: they can extract more money from families who want to
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: pay for their children to do just as well because
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: they really think that it matters. But in two years time,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: no one's going to care and you are not your atar.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I also fundamentally believe that the overwhelming majority of people
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: should not go straight to the university out of high school.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: You need at least a gap, you maybe two or
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: three years to grow up, have a think of a
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: little bit about what you want, and then maybe go
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: back if you want to go to UNI down the track. Controversial, provocative,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: but that's my number one. Don't sweat it because it's
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: not that big a deal. Oh and I scored in
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: the bottom fifteenth cent of the state. I know so
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: many people who are like literally doctors or have PhDs
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: who completely failed high school or didn't even finish high school.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: You can still have a successful life without doing well
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: at school. Not that I'm saying that education doesn't matter.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: It matters a lot, but your performance on these exams
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: is not the be all and end all. That's my
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: number one. Any reaction, any response, or do you want
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: to do your first one? Straight up?
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Well, my number one actually marries beautifully with that. I
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: would say that it's so important for you to just
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: maintain a healthy diet, good sleep, and some form of exercise,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: some form of outlet. Not because the exams matter so much,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: but generally speaking, when we're stressed out, when we're not coping,
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: when we feel overwhelmed, they're actually the first three things
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: that go in order for us to live happy, healthy lives.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: We need to tap into those three things. So there
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: is nothing so important that we should forego any.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Of those Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And if that's the case, then it's just so important.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: So you're not going to do well in your exams
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: if you're stressed, if you're sleep deprived, if you stayed
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: up or not the night before cramming. You might actually
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: hold onto it in short term memory sort of until
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: the next day ish. That's not really technically short term memory,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: but it'll drop out again pretty soon. You're not going
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: to have learned it. You will have memorized it, but
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: you're not going to do that well with it. That
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: actually ties in I've kind of gone on attention from
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: what you were saying, but that ties you with my
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: second one, which is that let's work on the assumption
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: that these exams do have some value for some people,
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  Speaker 1: like they will be important for some people in spite
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: of everything that I said in my first point. If
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: you want to do well, remembering requires forgetting. Remembering requires forgetting,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: So slow down, lay yourself to forget stuff, and then
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  Speaker 1: relearn it, because the second time you learn it, or
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: the third time you learn it, you're going to hang
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: onto it way better than the first time. Like you
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: just encode process in bed. The material in your brain
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: so much better when you learn it and then forget
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: it and then relearn it, and then forget it and
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: then relearn it. That's the way to do great learning.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: So then my first two your first one. After the break,
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: we'll go through three more short, sharp, friendly, hopefully helpful
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  Speaker 1: tips that will guide your children to success during this
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  Speaker 1: year twelve or a term four exam period. Welcome back
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: to this is the Happy Family's podcast. I'm justin Colson.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: I'm here with my wife, Kylie. Kylie, what is your
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: second one? If we want our kids to do well
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  Speaker 1: on these exams or to get through this exam period
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  Speaker 1: that everyone says is the most stressful and important period of
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: their lives.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Well, often we talk about this word balance. It doesn't exist,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: so I don't like using it. But we've talked about
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: eating healthy, getting adequate sleep, and some form of exercise,
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: moving your body for well being to actually optimize just
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: our wellbeing. But my second one kind of taps into
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: that a little bit. It's about taking time out some
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: form of recreation. We call it recreation, but it is
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: actually about recreating ourselves, finding an outlet to feel rejuvenated
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: and the best way we can do that, generally speaking,
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: is connecting with people we love.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so funny. I mean, if you do want
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: to do well in these exams, you get anxious about it.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: You don't do well because you're anxious, right, high motions, echos,
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  Speaker 1: low intelligence.
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  Speaker 2: We also think though, that in order to show people
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: that we're committed, we lock ourselves in our room for
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: days on end, you know, we don't go to bed,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: all of those crazy things that stop us from doing
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: the things that will actually help.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Actually, just just adding on to that social media, like,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: minimize your social media time. It's going to fray your brain.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Brain rot, hello, brain rot. Right there. My last one, Kylie,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: is the gap years. A good gap year is a
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: good which again that we can take the pressure off.
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  Speaker 1: We've been painstakingly explicit with our kids about how we
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: don't expect them to go straight on to further schooling
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  Speaker 1: after high school. They've just done thirteen years, they've burnt
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: out there over it, they haven't enjoyed it for the
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: most part, and then they're going to buckle in for
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: another four years and just get through that so they
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: can get a degree and then go and work and
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  Speaker 1: we've said, no, no, that's not what we're all about.
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  Speaker 1: We would prefer that you get some range and depth.
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  Speaker 1: I've got one of my favorite books on my bookshelf
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: is called Range by David Epstein, and he's looked at
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: a whole lot of research that shows that you can
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: leap ahead of the pack in your twenties and even
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: your thirties, but by the time your forties arrive, people
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: who have much broader range and depth. Of the ones
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: who start to I guess win the quote unquote race.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Life is not a race. Once you're out of high school.
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  Speaker 1: There's no more finish lines. You just go and do
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  Speaker 1: your thing. And I think Gap Years is just so good.
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  Speaker 1: I've been writing about gap years in the boys book
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: that I've put together that is currently with the publisher,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: and I'm just waiting on the final edit's come through.
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  Speaker 1: And I wrote so much about gap years because they're
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: so valuable. Check this out. I want to read something
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  Speaker 1: to you. This is the intro to the chapter about
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: gap years in the book. In one of my favorite
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: blog posts ever, Brett McKay, founder of the website and
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: podcast The Art of manlind this describes famous men of
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: previous generations. He points out the following. Before Steve McQueen's
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: eighteenth birthday, he'd worked on a farm, joined a circus,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: salt pens at a traveling carnival, hitchhiked across the USA,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: worked as a lumberjack, labor on a chain gang, served
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: illegally in the Merchant Marine under age, and joined the
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Marine Corps. One more time for emphasis, he did it
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: all before the age of eighteen. Sean Connery served in
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: the Royal Navy as a teenager, worked as a milkman, lifeguard,
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  Speaker 1: truck driver, and once took on six gang members, single
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: handedly fighting them and earning their respect. Writers like Jack London,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: and tramped around the country by rail, sailed the Pacificate
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: board of seal hunting schooner, and ventured into Western Canada's
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Klondike region seeking gold, all before the age of twenty two.
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  Speaker 1: Of course, yes, there's some selection bias, but the stories
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  Speaker 1: are compelling in a stark contrast to today's young men. Moreover,
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  Speaker 1: these weren't cherry pick celebrities with exceptional backgrounds. Most young
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  Speaker 1: men of previous generations accumulated rich, varied experiences, often physically demanding,
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  Speaker 1: occasionally dangerous that built their capacity and character. They discovered
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: their capabilities by testing boundaries and real world contexts. Their
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  Speaker 1: histories document purpose, satisfaction, and happiness. Today's boys encounter a
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  Speaker 1: different landscape. Regulatory constraints, safety concerns, parental anxiety, supervised schedules,
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  Speaker 1: and the need to win. The rat rays have crowded
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  Speaker 1: out the space for autonomous and healthy exploration and risk taking.
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  Speaker 1: As McKay notes, contemporary youth follow predictable, sanitized paths with
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: few opportunities for consequential choices and real world testing. Perhaps
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: he suggests our youth today are the least interesting generation.
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  Speaker 1: And then I go on to look at what the
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  Speaker 1: research evidence says about how gap years are beneficial. There's
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: a University of Sas Sydney study nine hundred first year
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  Speaker 1: students taking a year off between high school and university
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  Speaker 1: had positive effect on student motivation, translated to a real
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  Speaker 1: boost and performance in the first semesters at UNI when
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: they went back. And there's a whole bunch of other
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  Speaker 1: studies that show that gap years people do actually go
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  Speaker 1: back to school and they do better and they feel
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: better about life. That's my last one. I know, that's
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: sort of a long long spill from me. But my
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  Speaker 1: third thing is gap years. Take the pressure off your
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: twelve do well enough, but have a couple of years
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: off and then go back to school if that's what
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  Speaker 1: you wish to do, or build a business, or go
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: and earn a trade. Those kinds of things will round
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: you out and give you a much richer, fuller life
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: than just racing from one school experience to the next
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: school experience. Former university lecturer, speaking from first hand experience.
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  Speaker 2: I remember when you decided to go back to school
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: and you started off at Tafe because you had done
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: so poorly in high school. You actually needed to do
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: a bridging course, and your teachers just love you because
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: you were, you know, four or five years along in life.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: You had a wife, children, I.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Think I was twenty seven. I think I was twenty seven,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: twenty six or twenty seven, so I had almost a
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: decade out of high school with children and a wife
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: at a mortgage.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: And you stood out because you were up against seventeen
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: eighteen year old school leaders who had no idea why
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: they were there.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: And who were completely.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: Burnt out, hated the process, and the teachers just lapped
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: you up because you had something to say. And then
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: you went to UNI, and I think it was probably
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: one of the hardest years of our marriage because you
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: had spent your whole education life up till that point
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: believing you were an idiot. You were absolutely dumb.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: I truly believed that. I still don't believe that. Well
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: now I don't believe that such a thing is smart
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: or dumb, because I was dumb. And then I blitzed UNI.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: And then you got into your first year of UNI
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: and it was like there's a brain explosion took place,
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: and you didn't want to come home, like you just
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: were gobbling up everything that you could, like just soaking
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: it up like a sponge. And I'm watching the same
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: thing happen with our twenty five year old daughter, who's
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: had this big gap and she's gone back to UNI
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: this year, and I get a phone call nearly every
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: day to tell me about something that she learned in class,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: something she's observed in an appointment.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I don't want to cut you off, but you're almost
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: in tears saying this, and I just want to provide
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: the contrast. She's ringing you to say, guess what I
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: learned about at school today? Like how many teenagers come
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: home and say, guess what I learned at school today?
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Like, this is this twenty two year old, she's gone back,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: she's had a couple of years off. She wants to
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: sit at the table and tell us all the names
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: of the bones in her hand.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: She wants to play cahoot so that we can learn
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: anatomy because she's loving anatomy so much. And she's like,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: let's play Let's have Friday night cahot and go through
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: my anatomy textbook. How fun would that be? And we're
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: all like, we don't know, and she's like, yeah, but
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: then I'll win. But this is my point. We make this.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've labored this far too long. This is
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: might be really quick, so I'll wrap this. We labor
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: the importance of school. You've got to get this education.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: You've got to do well in your year twelve exams,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: You've got to get a high etar. I just don't
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: believe it. I fundamentally don't believe it.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: You talk about this generation being one of the most
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: boring generations.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the least interesting generation.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's because we're all going in a straight line.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, I love that that was a great metaphor.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: We're all going in a straight line. You look at
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: all of those other examples you shared and all of
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: the things. I love talking to old people and asking
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: them what their first job was and then kind of
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: just having that conversation and seeing where the twists and
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: turns of life took them, because it was no there
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: was no straight line.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: I had a conversation just recently with a fellow who'd
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: be in his eighties. It was an impromptu, unexpected conversation.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: We were having a chat. I asked him where he lived,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: and he told me he's got He lives on a
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: huge parcel of land overlooking the ocean at ali Andra
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Headland on the Sunshine Coast. And I asked him how
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: long he's been there and I said, I don't even
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: I can't even picture where it is, and I know
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: the area really well, and it's no, it's very hidden.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: And told me a bit more about it. I said that,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, that must be worth a fortune. It's got
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: incredible views. It's a huge blog. And he said to me, well,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: we think we've done reasonably well. I said, how did
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: you get there? Like, how did you end up? What
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: did you do for work. He was so funny, he
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: cracked up. He said, I'm still doing a little bit
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: of it. I can't let go. I just love what
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: I do so much. But then he told me this convoluted,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: bizarre story about how he was doing X and Y
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: and Z and he ended up in Japan, and they
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: ended up over in Taiwan. And now even now he's
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: still working on importing Asian car parts into the country
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: for people who are car enthusiasts. And it's just that
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: that has been what it took for him to end
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: up having this wonderful life that he's lived and have
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: this property with these beautiful views and all that sort
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: of thing. And again, you don't you don't have to
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: do well at school to do so many things, so
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: many things. You just need to find the thing that
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: you're willing to stick with and give it a really
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: good crack. Say yes to experiments, say yes to experiments,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: and say no to commitments until you're at least thirty.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: And then once you sort of get into your thirties,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: you start to zero went on what you want to do.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: You've had the range, so now you start saying no
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: to experiments and yes to commitments because you know what
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: you want to commit to. But gap years, gap years,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: gap years. I've labored the point for too long. What's
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: your last one?
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: It's perspectives everything right, We've been talking about it.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: It's not the b end, the be all and end all.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: It isn't. So just take a deep breath, do the
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: best you can, and remember that in two years time,
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: it's not even going to matter.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. A quick personal anecdote. I don't know if it's
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: appropriate that I share this or not, but I'm plopping
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: in on the pot anyway or see what happens and
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: hopefully won't get in too much trouble. Our daughter who's
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: finishing year twelve right now, she's about to start all
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: of her exams as well. She's getting an atar because
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: she personally wants to do well. She just wants to
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: have the experience of doing well in year twelve. She's
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: conscientious like that. But she's already told us she's going
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: to have two to three gap years. She's going to
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: follow the example of her big sisters who are all
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: doing the same thing and have then subsequently gone back
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: to school because they know what they want to do
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: and why they're doing it, or at least they're willing
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: to give it a go. And it's been really nice
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: to see how low and light the pressure has been
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: because she knows that in two years time, her atar
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean squat. I don't know if that's impressive. I
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: don't know if that's distressing. I'm not sure how that
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: lands for you. But they're are bits and pieces of
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: advice as we headed into the year twelve exam season.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Don't cancel us. The Happy Families podcast is produced by
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Mim Hammonds provides research, admin
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: and additional support. If you'd like more information about the
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: things we've talked about, I've got a whole chapter about
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: it in my upcoming Boys book. You can register your
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: interest at Happy Families dot com dot IU and visit
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: happy Families dot com dot au for more info about
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: making your family thrive. H