Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 311—Enlisted Helicopter Pilot. Oil and Gas to Clean Energy. First-generation Vietnamese.

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MBA Wire Taps 311—Enlisted Helicopter Pilot. Oil and Gas to Clean Energy. First-generation Vietnamese. · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:15
  Speaker A: Welcome to the clear. Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond, and this is your wiretaps for Monday, October 2, 2023. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Bornwell, England. Alex, how are things this week?
• 0:27
  Speaker B: Very good. Thank you, Graham.
• 0:28
  Speaker A: For more than 100 years, emory University's Guisueta Business School has been a training ground for principal leaders and a laboratory for powerful insights. Whether you're looking to accelerate your career or make a career pivot, Emory's one year and two year full time MBA programs prepare you for a lifetime of career confidence. Learn more about Emory's top 20 MBA with top five career outcomes, offering world class academics and small by design classes delivered in a dynamic global city. More at emory biz clearadmit. So it's October. Really good month. One of my favorite months because I like Halloween, but also it's the baseball playoffs, begin, all that kind of stuff. But what about on the NBA side? It's kind of an exciting time with respect to admissions news, right? Can you give us the update?
• 1:20
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, obviously we're seeing more application deadlines for Round one coming through this upcoming week. It's McDonough, Tepper, Foster, Goyzetta and Anderson have their round one application deadlines. Cambridge george actually has a Round two application deadline coming up next week, so they're moving right along. Interview invites are starting to come out. We've seen a few already for programs like TOC and Kellogg and Yale, but the big one this upcoming week is going to be Harvard. They're releasing their Round One interview invites on Wednesday, so they're one of the programs that release all their decisions at the same time instead of trickling them out, which is, I think, the best way to do it from a candidate's perspective. It's very transparent, very straightforward. So Wednesday of next week is going to be a big day for MBA admissions.
• 2:23
  Speaker A: Wednesday of this week, right? Yes.
• 2:25
  Speaker B: Sorry. This upcoming week, I should say, because.
• 2:28
  Speaker A: We recorded in advance a little bit. But one of the things that's also going to happen on Wednesday is we're doing our monthly Clearadmit Plus webinar, and that's a chance for anyone tuning in or anyone on our site who's a registered user to kind of come and hang out with you and I and talk admissions. And I think we're going to focus pretty heavily on interview strategy, like how to interview with these top programs, as well as Round Two applications for people who are targeting Round Two. And then finally just kind of an ask me anything kind of format where we'll take questions. It so happens, Alex, that I think HBS is going to be releasing interview invites around the same time that we're going to be doing this webinar because it's Wednesday at noon Eastern. So I don't know exactly what time HBS does their interview invites, but I feel like it's around that time, so we'll see. It could be a pretty exciting event, so please come out you have to sign up in advance. You can do so on our website. Just go to the you register on our website, go to Clear Admit Plus, and you can see that there's a little button for the webinar series, and you can just sign up there. So please join us. Those are usually a lot of fun.
• 3:32
  Speaker B: Yeah, very good. If nobody shows up, we'll know they're just waiting for their Harvard interview invite.
• 3:38
  Speaker A: Yeah, or if someone gets an invite, they can come and ask us a question about what do they need to know to excel at their interview at HBS. Speaking of admissions advice, we did run two admissions tips on the website in the last week. One was about letters of support, which I'm guessing a lot of people have no idea what that is even, but it's sort of like an informal recommendation letter. There's a video in the Clearadmit Admissions Academy where you and I talk at length about letters of support. So definitely watch that. It's linked in the admissions tip on the site. And then the other tip we ran was a tip that's called five Interview Questions That You Need to Ace. And again, we have, I think, at least one video about this in the Admissions Academy you can watch, too. So you can get this in all formats, whether it's written or video. And again, we're going to talk about this on Wednesday at our webinar, too. So definitely interview season is kind of upon us with HBS releasing their invites. That's kind of really the big the floodgates kind of open from here on. It's going to be a lot of interviewing for the next month or maybe even six weeks, so we will see. Alex, the other thing we've been doing is we continue our admissions director Q as, on the website. So we caught up with Eric Askins at Berkeley Haas. Eric's a real, just a great guy. He came on the show when I was out at the GMAC conference. Some of you may recall him doing a short little snippet with me. He's also been on the show as a guest for an admissions director Q A. But we did a kind of written interview with him that is on the site. And I just want to share one thing that he mentioned about essays, because I just thought it was really such a succinct kind of summary of what makes for a great essay. So he says a strong essay has three parts. One, an experience or event from the candidate's life. Two, the why? What did you learn from the experience? How has it impacted you? Why this example over others? And then number three, how it relates to the overall narrative of the application essays that do this. These essays are the most interesting to read and to get a sense of who the candidates are as individuals. So I thought that was a pretty good kind of piece of advice from Eric at Haas.
• 5:56
  Speaker B: Yeah, I love it. Really good.
• 5:58
  Speaker A: Yeah. And then we also caught up with Teresa Pero Camaro, who is at you know, she said this is kind of just an interesting we ask all the schools about their stance on kind of standardized testing, and here's what she had to say. She said, INSEAD does not offer exam waivers for any of our degree programs which require a test. We accept GMAT or GRE scores for our MBA and our MIM and the Executive assessment for our executive Masters in Finance and Executive MBA programs. She said, NCD programs are shorter and very intense academically since we need to cover all of the core courses and electives in nine months. Therefore, we need to be reassured academically before we offer admissions to our candidates. I hear what she's saying. It's a pretty strong stance, but I get it. Those programs are noted for their intensity and kind of academic rigor. So I get why they're not doing waivers.
• 6:54
  Speaker B: Yeah. It's a really strong stance. It's a really important stance, and it's a stance that every top school had before. Shouldn't this should not be an outlier in my book.
• 7:06
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I will say there are a handful of top programs that still absolutely require, whether it's Yale or Chicago, Booth or Harvard, Wharton, but we've seen some changes in behavior. The other thing, Alex, that we did is we profiled the so there are all these class of 25 profiles out, and so we continue to cover those on the site and try to highlight nuance and any changes. And so the schools that release their class profiles for the class 25 are Harvard, Tuck, Yale, and Kellogg. So we have detailed statistics and comparative stuff up on the website. I'm not going to break down each of them. But I did want to tell you, Alex, with HBS, this incoming class that started this fall is 938 students versus 1015 students last year. You and I talked about this before we came on air, but we believe that's intentional. They're kind of beginning to downsize after a period of time where they'd kind of let COVID admits defer a couple of years. And so they're getting back to kind of their normal size. Their GMAT average was 740. That's actually up from 730. Their GRE. Average 326. 39% of their student body is international and 45% women. And those numbers are all fairly consistent. Other than that little GMAT bump, things have been pretty consistent at HBS, again, slightly smaller class, but that's due to some folks that they had allowed to defer during the COVID years.
• 8:31
  Speaker B: Do we know the application numbers and how they compare to last year?
• 8:37
  Speaker A: You know what? We probably do. I don't think I have those numbers in front of me. I think, if I remember correctly, it's in the article, and I think they were down slightly, but not a because.
• 8:48
  Speaker B: To me, if you look at HBS, they're the biggest program at the top of the heap. Right. I mean, obviously Harvard and Stanford, followed by Wharton in my book, are the top three programs, but Harvard is the bigger, clearly, of Stanford. Right?
• 9:04
  Speaker A: Sure.
• 9:04
  Speaker B: So to me, the majority of the very best candidates will be applying to Harvard. So it's a really good benchmark to see. Well, what was the applicant pool like at the very top of the food chain this season? So if Harvard applicant pool was down, let's say 5%, I don't know if it was, but let's say 5% just for the sakes of my thinking, then to me that means that the top tier applicant pool was down 5%, or it's a good proxy for what's happening at the very top end of the market. And I think you're exactly right. The downward dip in the class size was deliberate because I think they did defer candidates over the last couple of years and so forth. So it's good to know that Harvard apple didn't drop significantly. And that to me says there were lots of strong candidates in the pool last year.
• 10:14
  Speaker A: Agreed. Yeah. And the other thing I was going to say is I just pulled up the numbers. So they had 8264 applications last year, and this past season they had 8149. So it's a difference of about 115 applications. So they were down ever so slightly. I think it's like is that like 1%? It's not a lot. So holding pretty steady. And I will say I have some early data points from some schools who've been kind of off the record with me, telling me that volume is is up a little bit in round one this year. So I think stable and up are what I'm hearing. I haven't heard anyone say, like, oh, we're way down know, we're off this year, so we'll see how it goes this season. The other schools, I just wanted to kind of point know, with Tuck and Yale and Kellogg, things are pretty stable across the board. I did want to note that. It's so interesting. These schools, some of them use slightly different metrics. So with Tuck, they say they have 33% international, but I think for them, they're not counting them in the same way. Right? So for them, international is someone who is not a dual citizen, but is just purely international, non US. Whereas in the case of Yale, they indicate 50% international, but that includes people who have multiple nationalities. So I think it gets a little confusing. But again, most of these schools, things are pretty stable. At Yale, there was a slight downtick in the GMAT average, it went from 725 to 720. But at Kellogg and Tuck, pretty stable, 731 at Kellogg, 726 at Tuck. In terms of GMAT averages, I will say we do see some pretty interesting discrepancies when it comes to the way schools use the GRE, in my view. And what I mean by that is at Yale, the average GRE is a 330. That maps fairly closely to their 720 GMAT average in terms of how people do who take both tests, where they often would land. Whereas when we look at some of these other schools, even Harvard and Kellogg, their average GRE is 326. Tux is 322. So I would argue that in some instances, I think schools are using the GRE to let people in who maybe wouldn't have done as well on the GMAT. And so I think some things happen with your averages when if people are steered towards the GRE and then the people who are taking the GMAT are the high scores, that's going to help your averages and stuff. So it's an interesting phenomenon that we always talk about.
• 12:56
  Speaker B: Yeah, it does seem like for some schools, it's a bit of a backdoor. What is a 322 Equivalency on the GMAT? It's probably 680 or something, I think. So that's a complete guess. But certainly Tuck's average GMAT score isn't going to be a 680.
• 13:16
  Speaker A: Right.
• 13:17
  Speaker B: What I am seeing, though, Graham, this season on apply wire are quite higher GRE scores than I've seen in the past on aggregate. So I think that's quite interesting, too, I think, because more of the pool is taking the GRE, I think more of the candidates that are good standardized test takers are also taking the GRE, which ultimately then would drive that average up and make it more at par with the yeah, we'll see how it sort of plays out. It is interesting and that Yale seems to be now for a couple of years in the row reporting the highest average GRE score among schools that we see, I think.
• 14:02
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's correct. And they have a really rigorous admissions process, and it makes sense to me.
• 14:08
  Speaker B: Their GMAT dropped, as you noted, but their GRE is 330. I think you said Harvard's GRE was 326.
• 14:16
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. So it's just fascinating.
• 14:19
  Speaker B: Last thing, if you're taking the GRE, folks, apply to Harvard, don't apply to Yale.
• 14:27
  Speaker A: Yeah, we'll see how this all kind of plays out. And actually, speaking of all these tests, I'm actually going to be sitting down with the kind of head of product development at GMAC, having him come on the podcast. We're going to record an episode about the new GMAT exam. So I'm going to ask him a lot of questions about the new test, because it's really quite different in a number of dimensions, and we can talk about some of the I have a question I'm going to ask him about how right now, if you miss, like, one question on the math, your percentile goes, like, way down. Because I think it's sort of reached its natural conclusion where everyone aces the math section. And so I'm hoping that with the new test, there's a lot more granularity and that they kind of rebalance the curve, if you will. So we'll see how it goes. Last thing before we talk about our candidates this week is that we've kicked off our Real Human Students series, and the first school that we featured this year is Wharton. There are five students who we kind of sat down with. I love these pieces. I mean, each student, they have to answer a whole set of questions. They got to give us a kind of serious photo and a fun photo. And they talk all about how they chose the school they're attending, what they want to do with their career, advice they have to people applying to that school or just in general for the application process. So these are some of the more popular pieces that we run on Clearadmit.com, and I'm just so happy that we're background to the new season. And yeah, we kicked it off with Wharton. So check out that piece on the site. And there are many more to come. Lauren on our team told me she's got like a whole bunch in the hopper, so they're going to be coming out fast and furious now.
• 16:01
  Speaker B: And anyone targeting Wharton, these are must. You know, as we do these for all the other programs as you're really trying to assess your fit for the programs that you're targeting or trying to describe your fit for the programs you're targeting, reading these real humans. Pieces for each of the programs is a great way to understand the quality of the folks that are there and what they're doing and what they're about, and so on and so forth.
• 16:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. In other news, please reach out to us. Write to us at info@clearadmit.com. If you have any questions or just want to say hi. Use the subject line Wiretaps and we will write you back. Alex, anything else before we talk about our candidates this week?
• 16:45
  Speaker B: No. Let's kick on.
• 16:46
  Speaker A: All right, so this is wiretaps candidate number one. Our first candidate has eight schools on the target list and is looking to begin school next fall. The schools are Dartmouth, Harvard, MIT, Kellogg, Stanford, Chicago, Wharton and Yale. This person's career to date has been military, and in fact, their current job is medical evacuation, helicopter pilot, and they want to ultimately get into consulting. They'd love to go to a BCG, deloitte McKinsey. Those are some of the firms they name. Their GRE score is a 324. Their GPA is a 3.69 out of I believe West Point. They're located in Texas. This is an older candidate. We'll talk a little bit about why that is, but they've had like eleven years of experience because I think they enlisted out of high school, then transferred into one of the service academies. West Point finished that and then back at work again in the military. So a little bit of an older candidate. They'd love to land in the northeast of the US. After business school. And again, lots of accolades and accomplishments both in the military, but also they do a lot of volunteer work. They're a youth football coach, they work with a therapy dog team. So there's a lot going on. The one thing I did want to mention is that this person is sponsored. So wherever they go is going to be paid for by the military. And as a result, they have to return to the military for a couple of years and teach in the service academy and remain active duty. And then they can kind of start their career. So that's kind of the gist of it. This is actually someone who wrote to us as well on email, so we have a little bit more background. But Alex, what do you make of this? Because it's a very unusual case and pretty accomplished candidate.
• 18:40
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I think this is probably a really high quality individual in terms of their military service, but also how far they've come. Right. So they're first generation college person. Obviously, like you said, they enlisted first and then they went back to a service academy, graduated as an engineering major with a three six nine. And that's no mean feat in of itself. They're a helicopter pilot, sort of medical evacuation, evacuation stuff. That sounds really interesting. So I assume their military career itself will look really good, strong wrecks and so on and so forth. Nice level of volunteer experience. Like you say, they're a youth football coach, therapy doctor. I mean, they've just got lots of different sort of elements that be like, wow, that's really cool, that's interesting. Quite frankly, Graham, they just seem like a good human being. Right?
• 19:51
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I think they were actually this was in the email they sent, but I feel like that 3.69 landed them in the top 10% of their class at West Point. So we know we don't see much great inflation at the service academies.
• 20:04
  Speaker B: Yeah. And I love that as a first gen too. Right, yeah. So to me this is a story about how far someone's come, right? So they've really looks like they've progressed really well, done really well, and so on and so forth. As you said, they're a little bit unusual in terms of their post MBA activity. They're going to go back to the service and teach for a couple of years before they then go off into the consulting world and so forth. And they already have eleven years of experience. So to me, this is the bigger challenge is really sort of thinking long and hard about that post MBA track. And if things that they're targeting is really feasible and doable are the firms that they're listing in terms of the consulting firms like BCG, Deloitte, McKinsey that they list, are they going to be recruiting someone who's, by that juncture, they'd be probably in their late 30s, early 40s when they're being recruited into the private sector. So that to me is going to be a challenge the rest of this profile looks really interesting. They're obviously going to have to justify at the top programs that they're targeting. That sort of why now and their fit. Because just for older candidates they're going to really need to show that they're going to fully engage and they really understand the elements of the program, where they're going to be able to do that and look forward to doing that and so on and so forth. But overall, Graham, I think this sort of person I'd really enjoy hanging out with, but they've come really far and they've done very well as far as I can tell. So I think there's a lot to.
• 21:57
  Speaker A: Like, I mean, I think every year there are a handful of older candidates who end up at places like Harvard, et cetera. Right. So it happens. This is kind of an extreme case when you think about the fact that they wouldn't be, as you say, kind of heading into consulting until they're in their late thirty s or something. So that may pose some challenges. I do wonder to what extent they can think specifically about their kind of plans because they mentioned kind of an interest in healthcare consulting. And so I feel like there are some boutique firms out there that would have no problem taking a slightly older candidate. And so in an email I wrote to this person, I encourage them to think really carefully about their career plan because that could help too. But I'm hoping somebody gives this person a chance because again, great grades in a challenging major from an excellent school, the GRE 324. Okay, it's a couple of ticks below the average at HBS and further below what we see at Yale, but really strong GPA, really quantitatively, rigorous undergraduate major. So I'm not so worried about that. I think this is going to come down to why now and sort of specificity around goals and how they're going to make that kind of transition from teaching at the service academy into the private sector. But again, I really like this candidate, you say probably he seems like a really good person and has done a lot of impressive things.
• 23:28
  Speaker B: Might you encourage them not to go back to that teaching gig and take the risk of not getting that sponsorship, doing the MBA and going directly into the private sector?
• 23:46
  Speaker A: Right. So assuming that they I mean, I don't know what their sort of service contract is with the military, but if they had the option, like, oh, I could go to Harvard and then just start working. Yeah. One could make the argument that those three years that they're going to spend teaching that there's a big opportunity cost there and that it may, you know. So yeah, that's something to think about, but I don't know how that process works for them. Maybe they kind of have to declare it at the outset and they can't really go back. But yeah, that is an interesting point that you're making because they could start their career and that kind of high earning power way sooner if they were to just go to business school.
• 24:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, because we saw that quite a lot when I was at Wharton is folks would come in, they'd be sponsored by their firm, then they would go and maybe do an internship elsewhere just for the fun of it because they had that guarantee of being sponsorship. But then they get distracted and decide, all right, I'm going to give up my sponsorship and I'm going to go and recruit in the private sector. That process does happen and happens at some level. Like you say, we don't know how that might work with the military. But the key issue for this candidate is obviously going to be we're not ageist here, but they're going to be further along in their career, in their opportunity cost. As you mentioned, you want 20 or 30 years of a great career post MBA in the private sector, right. To make the most of it. Anyway. It's an additional thought.
• 25:22
  Speaker A: Yeah. So I want to thank that person for reaching out, for posting their profile on Applywire, and thanks for their service as well. So we'll see how it goes, but best of luck to them. They can keep us posted. Let's move on, Alex, and talk about wiretaps candidate number two. So, our second candidate this week, also applying right now to start in the fall of 24, this person has Columbia, Duke, Harvard, MIT, Kellogg, Booth and Wharton on the list. And they've been working in oil and gas and consulting related to that industry. They have a 710 on the GMAT and a 3.54 GPA. They've got five years of work experience. They're located in Houston and they wouldn't mind kind of landing there, but they're open to other places in the kind of immediate post MBA kind of time frame. This person is 27 years old, male, and they're actually of Nigerian heritage, although born and raised in the States, did undergrad in the States. I guess their parents came over from Nigeria is what I understood. They went to a top ten engineering college for undergrad where they earned that 3.54. And in terms of their experience, they've had like three years as a petroleum engineer for a major oil company, had to supervise teams and some field operations experience there. They also had done a year as a data analyst at an oil and gas startup and a year at MBB with an energy focus. So that's kind of the background in terms of, again, all in and around the energy sector, but both on the kind of front lines doing kind of field operations, but then also with MBB doing kind of consulting work. They do a fair amount of extracurriculars in terms of they've got some leadership within an engineering organization as well as a Christian ministry. That was when they were, I guess, an undergrad. They do mentoring of local college students from underrepresented minority backgrounds. They help raise scholarships for students in Texas. They're pretty active in their church. They lead Bible study, and they do some diversity recruiting at MBB. So that's kind of the basics here. They're just sort of wondering what are their chances? And they do mention that in the long term, they would love to be head of strategy for a clean energy company with a focus on building energy infrastructure in Nigeria. So Alex, what do you make of this candidate?
• 27:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, another very strong candidate. I think it's interesting when you look at this overall profile, I think the weakest element of the profile is their GMAT, and it's a 710, right? Everything else just smacks of being a really strong, strong candidate. And that GMAT of 710 is good. I mean, it's just going to be slightly below the median for the schools that they're targeting. But they've got a decent GPA from an engineering program. They've got experience in the oil and gas sector. They realized that actually they wanted to focus more on clean energy. So they managed to exit go to MBB, which you've got to be pretty high up the food chain to be able to do that, I would imagine, in terms of getting access to MBB. So they've done that pivot already. Their goals are all in clean energy and as we've talked about on this show, probably in the last month or two, the importance of having leaders that are going to help us navigate this climate disaster that we're facing. Here's a candidate that's basically raising their hand and saying, that's exactly what I want to do. And you mentioned their extracurriculars. Again, they seem like a really good dude. They sort of giving back to their communities and doing a variety of different things. And I haven't mentioned the fact that they're a minority. I mean, obviously with the Supreme Court decision, I mean, you can't just check a box and that all of a sudden elevates this candidate. But nevertheless, they've probably had some life experiences that they can talk about in their profile that would show some additional sort of aspects to their candidacy that the average sort of white male candidate wouldn't have. So I think, quite frankly, Graham, there's a lot to like here. If this was a 740 GMAT candidate, I'd be like, yeah, this is the absolutely top of the pile type candidate, just slightly lower GMAT. But I think there's a lot else here that will help them overcome that.
• 30:01
  Speaker A: Yeah, I tend to agree. I guess to play devil's advocate, I do worry a little bit that because of that 710 and 35 is a solid GPA, but again, a little bit below average at some of the top schools that are on their list. So part of me was wondering it wasn't art history. Graham no, it was in a really tough I'm.
• 30:20
  Speaker B: Kidding.
• 30:21
  Speaker A: It was an engineering major. So I guess when I try to really look at this with a critical lens, I'm like, is there a safety on this list? So they have M seven schools in Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Kellogg, Chicago, and Wharton, and then they have Duke, which obviously many would argue another kind of top ten MBA program. And so I was just sort of wondering, do they risk kind of a waitlist scenario as the school waits for them to maybe retake the test, or are they just going to get in? And I think, as you point out, they have a lot of unique experiences to share. I think they've got a really interesting kind of cultural background, as you say. Their lived experience is going to be different than some of the average candidates applying or something. So I guess I'm tempted to roll the dice and say they'll get into one of these programs, they have, again, making that move to MBB. That's going to be a real feather in their cap, too. So I think they'll be okay. There was a little part of me that was like, oh, should there be a school that's like, just in case? But I guess they can always pivot and address that in round two if things haven't worked out. I don't know if they've already applied or not, or if they're mixing rounds.
• 31:30
  Speaker B: I would argue, yeah, Fuka is very good program, but in the mix of their target schools, that would be their safety school.
• 31:38
  Speaker A: Yeah, I guess so.
• 31:40
  Speaker B: It is in the tier below the M seven, which are all the other schools that they're targeting. But I think to your point, maybe they should add Ross in two or one or two in that tier rather than only one, because that again, adds a bit of risk if you've only got one in a particular tier. To me, the clincher is that move to MBB, that move now experience in clean energy stuff to sort of set them up so they're not coming from oil and gas and saying, well, I want to move to clean energy, because I've had that epiphany. They've made that move. They've done it at an elite firm. I mean, MVB's top elite firm. So I really do like that, as you pointed out. So, yeah, I think a lot to like. But we know I think we both collectively agree that 710 on the GMAT is their weakest link piece of the pie. But it's still I think the overall package should be good enough, I think well, I'm hoping it's good enough for the schools that they're targeting.
• 32:50
  Speaker A: No, I think it will be. I mean, one thing you're pointing out, I think that we're both getting at is the selection process to join MBB is one that is highly respected, right? So it's sort of like they've already been admitted to MBB, and I feel like that will work well in their favor. So, yeah, I want to wish them the best of luck and yeah, hopefully they're getting their apps in and making a compelling argument. I think their goals are really fascinating. There's a lot of work to be done when it comes to energy. Right. So let's move on though, and talk about wiretaps candidate number three. So our third candidate this week has five schools on the target list. They also want to start in the fall of 24, and the schools are Harvard, Kellogg, Stanford, Chicago, and Wharton. So again, someone aiming I mean, this person only has M seven schools on the target list. Their pre MBA career has consisted of project management in the oil and gas industry. So another kind of energy sector person, they have a 710 on the GMAT, just like our last candidate did, and they have a 7.7 GPA. They're an international I believe they're from Vietnam. And so the scale is probably out of ten. They've worked for a little over seven years and they've had a wealth of experience in the energy sector. They also mentioned they're a first generation college student. They share the fact that they would be 31 when they matriculate next fall for business school and they would love to get into working as like a portfolio manager in a renewable developer. They mentioned Orsted and GE as some companies they might target in the long term. They want to return to Vietnam to work in the energy industry and help transform oil and gas businesses into renewables. So Alex, I don't know if you did this on purpose, but this week there seems to be a little bit of a theme here with kind of the energy sector and moving towards kind of clean energy. This person does have a whole bunch of outside activities. They're active in their community. But yeah, where do you place this candidate? Because they're sort of between the first and the second candidate in the sense that they're a little bit older. They have similar kind of GMAT score to the second candidate we discussed. So yeah, how do you kind of think they're going to fare at these top programs on their list?
• 35:17
  Speaker B: Yeah, again, this is a strong candidate. As you point out. They're only applying to M seven, so they might need to spread their target school list a little into the next tier, just if going to business school this season is what they want to do. And obviously with seven years work experience, they're getting on the latter end of that spectrum. So this year would make sense. They're 31 years old again, they've got oil and gas experience. They're still working in oil and gas, so they haven't made that pivot yet, like our prior candidate. So you could say maybe that's a little bit of a strike against them. But nevertheless, it looks like they've got really strong experience. They've done very well. They've got several promotions. Again, I like this idea that they're first generation, much like our first candidate, so that can again show how far they've come. They'll have a bit more of a lived experience to talk about in that regard and so forth. So that should play really well with admissions candidates from Vietnam. I don't think they're necessarily going to be overrepresented, so they can bring a bit of a different conversation to the table in the MBA program. They're really going to need to demonstrate the fit and the why now because again, they're slightly older candidate and so forth, so that's going to be really important. But I will admit I'm a little bit concerned with their school selection in terms of just I'd like to see one or two schools from the next tier just to spread the risk a little bit, but potentially a very strong candidate again.
• 37:16
  Speaker A: Graham yeah, and I think the one thing that's a little unclear from their description is they talk about working. One of their main kind of volunteer activities is with the Red Cross and they talk about how they volunteered for 18 months in the US taking care of blood donors before and after the donation process. So I just kind of wondered to what extent they've been in the US. Because they indicate their location is Vietnam. I presume they're Vietnamese, but they do mention as kind of a footnote that their family background has ties to the USA, I guess maybe via the Vietnam War or it's sort of unclear to me. So there are some question marks that I would love to have a better kind of sense for. But overall, I tend to agree with you that super interesting career to date, very well reasoned career plans in a sector that is an interesting sector, oil and gas, renewables. But the numbers, the 710 and the 7.7 GPA out of ten harder to kind of say that they're a home run at some of the schools on their list. So, yeah, if I were them, given their age in particular, I would cast, like, a wider net so that they can make sure they land somewhere for next fall. Because there are some schools that could definitely help them that are not on their list. Meaning you don't have to go to an M Seven school to accomplish these kinds of goals. There are plenty of schools that have world renowned reputations that are beyond the small handful, the five that they have on their list. So, yeah, I feel like they're kind of overweighted. If you think of a portfolio theory here, they're a little overweighted on the top end.
• 38:51
  Speaker B: So I'll put you on the spot. I know we're running close to the end of the show, but give us three programs you would recommend that they look at to balance out that portfolio.
• 39:02
  Speaker A: Yeah, so I was thinking about Ross and know schools with kind of strong international, you know, given the sector experience that they're interested in. I mean, you could think of a UT, Austin McCombs if they're trying to spread their risk a bit as well. And part of me was kind of wondering about an INSEAD or an Lbs, right? Because, again, schools with great international reputations would easily allow someone to kind of work in these different markets. INSEAD has that Asian presence with a campus in Singapore, and on some levels, both INSEAD and Lbs can be completed pretty quickly. I think Lbs has, like, a 15 month option, and INSEADs program, as we talked about earlier, is like, nine months. Right. So, yeah, I was kind of wondering about that as potential options for them. I encourage them to explore that and get in some apps and see how it goes.
• 39:53
  Speaker B: Yeah. Great options, I think.
• 39:55
  Speaker A: All right, so, Alex, thanks for picking these out. I always feel like it's just so much fun. I know why admissions readers love their job, because you just get to learn about everyone's stories, and it's always just fascinating to see what people have done. Let's connect next week and do this once again. But, yeah. Thanks, Alex, for all your help on this.
• 40:12
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe, everyone. Take care.