Latest / Respark Your Life / EP351: Eric McHugh - Giant Improvement In Dating App

Transcript

EP351: Eric McHugh - Giant Improvement In Dating App · Respark Your Life

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Speaker 1: So I think people are happiest serving other people.
0:02
Speaker 1: And I think I'm the number one me in the world.
0:04
Speaker 1: I think you're the number one you in the world.
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Speaker 1: How do you serve other people at scale to the best of your ability?
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Speaker 1: It's to do what you're number one at, and that is being you.
0:13
Speaker 1: So that's why it's so important when building
0:15
Speaker 1: like either businesses, content, whatever the case may be.
0:17
Speaker 1: Follow your natural talents and curiosity, because that's where you're going to crush it.
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Speaker 2: Hello, this is Raymond Aaron, New York Times top 10 bestselling author,
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Speaker 2: bringing you Respark Your Life podcast.
0:29
Speaker 2: the world's premier podcast to ignite the fire to allow you to live life on your own
0:34
Speaker 2: terms. Every single Thursday, I bring you a multi-millionaire world famous celebrity
0:41
Speaker 2: to teach you about the most fascinating ways in order to live a far better life. Every
0:48
Speaker 2: single Thursday, you just need to subscribe by hitting the subscribe button. I'll see
0:53
Speaker 2: you every Thursday to re-spark your life.
0:59
Speaker 2: Yes, it's Raymond Aaron, New York Times top 10 bestselling author, but heck, you know
1:04
Speaker 2: that about me.
1:05
Speaker 2: What you're wondering is who I'm bringing you.
1:08
Speaker 2: And I'm not bringing you my world famous friends.
1:11
Speaker 2: I know they're fun, but you know all about them and you can hear them just by going to
1:16
Speaker 2: YouTube and hearing hundreds of thousands of videos on any of my world famous friends.
1:22
Speaker 2: And so I specialize in bringing you stealth wisdom.
1:26
Speaker 2: I specialize in bringing you people
1:29
Speaker 2: you would never know about.
1:31
Speaker 2: Now, if you're in their circle,
1:33
Speaker 2: you'll of course know their wisdom,
1:35
Speaker 2: but you probably aren't in their circle.
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Speaker 2: And so who is it?
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Speaker 2: Who is the stealth genius of today?
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Speaker 2: It's Eric McHugh, a serial entrepreneur
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Speaker 2: and visionary technologist with a mission to build tools
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Speaker 2: that make the world better.
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Speaker 2: From his time at Snap to founding startups around the globe,
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Speaker 2: Eric's path is driven by curiosity, impact, and innovation.
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Speaker 2: With an IQ north of 140, holy mackerel,
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Speaker 2: he's not just building for the future,
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Speaker 2: he's also deeply focused on the present,
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Speaker 2: exploring the balance between physicality and spirituality
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Speaker 2: as a core part of his journey.
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Speaker 2: Get ready for a conversation that blends mind,
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Speaker 2: body, and mission.
2:31
Speaker 2: Eric, are you with us?
2:33
Speaker 1: - Yes, sir, and Raymond, I love the excitement in your voice.
2:35
Speaker 1: I can tell this is gonna be a great episode.
2:37
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me.
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Speaker 2: - Yes, it's gonna be wonderful.
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Speaker 2: And now that I've given you this huge intro,
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Speaker 2: you have to somehow live up to it.
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Speaker 1: - Well, happy to do that.
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Speaker 2: Wonderful. Now, I teach spirituality is one of the things I teach, but you seem to have blended it
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Speaker 2: into what you do. So tell us how do you combine mind, body, and mission,
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Speaker 2: and physicality, and spirituality? How do you combine that in your work?
3:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the thing is, I wouldn't say combine, I would say they're all part of the set. They're
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Speaker 1: I would say that's kind of the base of my work.
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Speaker 1: So I would say I'm a spiritual person,
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Speaker 1: and then the work is just built on top of that.
3:28
Speaker 1: So I like to say that everyone has an inner purpose
3:31
Speaker 1: and everyone has an outer purpose.
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Speaker 1: I think everyone's inner purpose is the same.
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Speaker 1: So my inner purpose is to raise my own level of consciousness.
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Speaker 1: What does this do?
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Speaker 1: It raises the level of consciousness of those around me,
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Speaker 1: and then that raises the level of consciousness around them,
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Speaker 1: and it creates like a nice positivity upward spiral,
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Speaker 1: which is actually why I like podcasts so much.
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Speaker 1: let's say one person listens to the show,
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Speaker 1: they're better off after listening to the show,
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Speaker 1: they go out in the world and they just spread that ripple positivity.
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Speaker 1: I say that's W. I would say everyone's outer purpose is how do
4:01
Speaker 1: your natural God-given gifts help contribute to your inner purpose?
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Speaker 1: For me, that just so happened to be AI,
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Speaker 1: dating, Web3, and e-commerce,
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Speaker 1: because that's just what I'm naturally interested in.
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Speaker 1: I also believe in the power of authenticity.
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Speaker 1: I think people are happiest serving other people,
4:17
Speaker 1: And I think I'm the number one me in the world.
4:19
Speaker 1: I think you're the number one you in the world.
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Speaker 1: So if I...
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Speaker 2: Hold on. You're the number one you in the world.
4:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
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Speaker 2: Man, I love that line.
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Speaker 2: That's a great one-liner.
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Speaker 2: I'm going to use that.
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Speaker 1: And yeah, so if I'm the number one me in the world,
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Speaker 1: so if I try to be you,
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Speaker 1: I can't beat you at being you.
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Speaker 1: But on the flip side, if you try to be me,
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Speaker 1: you can't beat me at being me.
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Speaker 1: So if you're happiest serving other people,
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Speaker 1: how do you serve other people at scale
4:45
Speaker 1: to the best of your ability?
4:46
Speaker 1: It's to do what you're number one at and that is being you.
4:50
Speaker 1: So that's why it's so important when bidding,
4:52
Speaker 1: building either businesses, content,
4:53
Speaker 1: whatever the case may be, to follow
4:55
Speaker 1: your natural talents and curiosity,
4:58
Speaker 1: because that's where you're going to crush it.
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Speaker 1: Because I mean, we all know,
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Speaker 1: based on your intro, we all know successful people on
5:03
Speaker 1: paper who aren't doing what they're passionate about.
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Speaker 1: Yes, they may be successful,
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Speaker 1: but they're not loving it.
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Speaker 1: Whereas if you're doing what you love,
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Speaker 1: you don't get tired, you keep doing it,
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Speaker 1: and then it just expands from there.
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Speaker 2: >> Some British humorist,
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Speaker 2: I wish I could remember his name right now,
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Speaker 2: said, "Be yourself, everybody else is taken."
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Speaker 2: [LAUGHTER]
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Speaker 1: >> Yeah, that's true.
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Speaker 2: >> That's what you were saying.
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Speaker 2: Give me an example of a business that you started that
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Speaker 2: somehow blends physicality, spirituality, mind, body, mission.
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Speaker 2: Tell us how it works.
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Speaker 1: >> Yeah. I'm working on three current businesses.
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Speaker 1: The first is dating.
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Speaker 1: It's an AI-powered dating app.
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Speaker 1: So the intention behind that is I view human relationships as very important for overall
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Speaker 1: human happiness. And I view that social media dating apps have put that push that needle in
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Speaker 1: the wrong direction. So what dating does is it auto generates dating profiles based on the user's
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Speaker 1: digital footprint and then creates matches based on those users digital footprints. So for example,
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Speaker 1: I could get three matches. Like if you were to create a profile on dating, it would generate a
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Speaker 1: Cupid and like your Twitter, your Pinterest, all that cool stuff and generate those tags
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Speaker 1: and then it would match you based on those tags.
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Speaker 1: And the goal for that is to put people in the position for them to succeed because they're
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Speaker 1: matched with someone compatible.
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Speaker 1: And the cool thing is the more you're on the app, the smarter it gets at matching.
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Speaker 1: So for example, you bet yes, no, yes, no to these people.
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Speaker 1: It's learning from your interest and it's adjusting your profile and who you're looking
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Speaker 1: for continuously.
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Speaker 1: And the cool thing about that is it's not just, I mean, we started with dating just
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Speaker 1: 'cause it's an easy, 'cause not too many people
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Speaker 1: are happy in the current dating marketplace,
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Speaker 1: but like you can do with friends,
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Speaker 1: you can do with coworkers,
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Speaker 1: we can have done to help plan an episode.
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Speaker 1: There are plenty of ways to use that software
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Speaker 1: to connect people with people they wouldn't,
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Speaker 1: like you mentioned the earlier show,
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Speaker 1: it's like I'm on your show, I may be cool in my circles,
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Speaker 1: but your listeners wouldn't have met me like organically.
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Speaker 1: We're trying to connect people
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Speaker 1: who they wouldn't have met organically,
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Speaker 1: but are compatible.
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Speaker 1: So that's what dating is.
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Speaker 1: Another project is Holong Labs,
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Speaker 1: and that's leveraging the power of AI
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Speaker 1: to create products at scale that help people.
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Speaker 1: 'Cause I know like AI is really good at,
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Speaker 1: AI is really good at pattern recognition,
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Speaker 1: reading large datasets and leveraging natural talents.
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Speaker 1: So with AI, we can crank out companies quicker
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Speaker 1: to learn quicker, to try to serve more people.
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Speaker 1: And if one company catches fire,
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Speaker 1: we can put our attention on that and help it grow.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so those are two of the things I'm working on.
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Speaker 2: - Wow.
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Speaker 2: Let's get back to dating,
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Speaker 2: because that's something everybody can understand.
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Speaker 2: - Yes.
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Speaker 2: - You don't have a man or woman in your life,
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Speaker 2: then you're particularly interested.
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Speaker 2: I've noticed that TikTok knows me way too well
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Speaker 2: and I'm really mad at myself, actually.
8:01
Speaker 2: I should be mad at TikTok.
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Speaker 2: It knows me so well that it gives me these five second
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Speaker 2: 19 second videos. Each one grabs me. I say, Oh, that's interesting. I'll watch it for
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Speaker 2: a few seconds. And then I'll get another video on a completely different topic that also
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Speaker 2: captivates me. Because if it gave me like, I'm just learning the piano now. If it gave
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Speaker 2: me three videos in a row on playing the piano, I would get bored and turn it off. And so
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Speaker 2: they gave they give me a video on piano and then one on football and then one on movies.
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Speaker 2: And all of a sudden I look at my watch and an hour has gone by.
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Speaker 2: So I know that whatever algorithms are behind TikTok, they know me, they got me.
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Speaker 2: Oh my God, they got me bad.
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Speaker 2: Now is your dating app like that?
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Speaker 2: Do you use the same kind of things to figure out what I would like?
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Speaker 1: So I would say dating and TikTok are different.
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Speaker 1: Yes, we're both really good at learning about you.
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Speaker 1: But I would say the intention is different.
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Speaker 1: Like TikTok is obviously trying to capture your attention to sell your data to make a
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Speaker 1: bunch of money off of you as a profile.
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Speaker 1: And something I don't like what they did is first off, take text algorithm is actually
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Speaker 1: really good.
9:15
Speaker 1: They're probably the best social media platform out creating algorithmic content, but I think
9:19
Speaker 1: they based it off of old school slot machines.
9:23
Speaker 1: So you know, like if you're in Vegas, all your biometrics are getting measured and all
9:26
Speaker 1: it's up to print shooting when you're about to leave.
9:29
Speaker 1: That's when they give you a hit, a quick win to keep you on the slot machine to keep you
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Speaker 1: playing.
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Speaker 1: And so that's what TikTok does with their algorithm.
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Speaker 1: And in terms of dating, so they're trying to make as much money off the user, whereas
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Speaker 1: we're using a road, we're learning about the user as much as we can to match them with
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Speaker 1: people that are compatible with.
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Speaker 1: The data learning is similar in the sense we're trying to get as smart as we can, because
9:53
Speaker 1: we're actually the most customized AI chat assistant out there right now, because we're
9:59
Speaker 1: so good at learning about our users.
10:00
Speaker 1: But the intention is to match them with someone that they can actually have a relationship
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Speaker 1: with.
10:06
Speaker 1: And that's what differentiates dating from other dating apps.
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Speaker 1: Because for example, if you use like Tinder, Hinge or Bumble, for an example, like what
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Speaker 1: happens when Tinder, Hinge or Bumble, they match a happy couple, the happy couple then
10:17
Speaker 1: leaves the dating app.
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Speaker 1: This results in a loss of a paying customer for Tinder.
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Speaker 1: So their incentive is to keep people on that Ferris wheel.
10:25
Speaker 1: So if you ever heard of someone saying like, I deleted the app, download the app, delete
10:28
Speaker 1: the app, download the app.
10:29
Speaker 1: That's all by incentive design.
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Speaker 1: Whereas dating after the match is made, it can switch from a relationship
10:35
Speaker 1: butler because it knows both parties so well.
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Speaker 1: So like Eric and Jane, you guys haven't been on date in three months.
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Speaker 1: This new restaurant came up.
10:42
Speaker 1: You guys might like it or it's like Eric, her birthday is coming up.
10:45
Speaker 1: She added this thing to her Pinterest.
10:48
Speaker 1: It might make a good gift.
10:49
Speaker 1: And what's so cool about this is it can actually act as like a counselor
10:53
Speaker 1: type thing where it's like, here's a relationship problem we're having.
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Speaker 1: How would you best solve it?
10:57
Speaker 1: And I've noticed people are using chat GBT,
11:00
Speaker 1: like other AI sources, to ask a question.
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Speaker 1: Like I've seen friends, for example,
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Speaker 1: take a screenshot of a text message.
11:07
Speaker 1: What does this mean?
11:07
Speaker 1: It gives an answer.
11:08
Speaker 1: But there's a problem with that.
11:09
Speaker 1: And the problem with that is, yes,
11:11
Speaker 1: it's giving that friend an answer,
11:13
Speaker 1: but it's basing it off of him.
11:14
Speaker 1: So he doesn't realize the answer he's getting
11:16
Speaker 1: is 'cause like the chat GBT had learned about him.
11:18
Speaker 1: So it's answering his own question
11:20
Speaker 1: in the lens of how it would act to him.
11:22
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, you don't realize it's just a mirror.
11:24
Speaker 1: But because dating, we take into account both the users
11:27
Speaker 1: a better response. So it's not just learning about like your questions of it and those
11:31
Speaker 1: both people's digital footprint and then it can incorporate that into a response giving a more
11:35
Speaker 1: personalized answer for both parties with the hopes of I guess inspiring connection.
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Speaker 1: We've tested this out multiple times like for example me and a co-worker were playing around
11:46
Speaker 1: it's like oh if we wanted to introduce another couple how would you suggest doing it and it gave
11:49
Speaker 1: a really good answer for both of us. It was like hey we're having this type of fight what would
11:54
Speaker 1: what do you think's happening how do you think we can fix it and all that good stuff. So all you have
11:57
Speaker 2: Cupid and it's designed to help you going forward. Wow, how fascinating.
12:08
Speaker 2: And though AI is growing massively, every week I have a newsletter that I get every day
12:16
Speaker 2: that tells me the changes from 24 hours ago in AI and in robotics. And every day there's a list of
12:24
Speaker 2: of like 10 massive changes, some of which
12:26
Speaker 2: I don't even understand.
12:28
Speaker 2: But the ones I understand, I say, this is massive.
12:31
Speaker 2: And it's only been one day.
12:33
Speaker 2: And there'll be another newsletter tomorrow.
12:35
Speaker 2: So it's like the biggest thing that ever happened.
12:38
Speaker 2: And most people aren't catching on to it yet.
12:42
Speaker 2: What do you think?
12:42
Speaker 2: Is there going to be a split?
12:45
Speaker 2: Like there has always been a financial split,
12:48
Speaker 2: the wealthy and the broke.
12:50
Speaker 2: But is there going to be an AI split, those with no AI
12:53
Speaker 1: and those who don't know AI.
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Speaker 1: - You know, I've been seeing that split in content
12:57
Speaker 1: a lot too, like even internally,
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Speaker 1: like half the people think that AI-based content
13:01
Speaker 1: is the coolest thing ever,
13:03
Speaker 1: but half the people think that it's like soulless
13:05
Speaker 1: and doesn't help at all.
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Speaker 1: So I would say there's gonna be a split,
13:09
Speaker 1: but I would say the people who don't like AI
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Speaker 1: are gonna end up using AI in a more subtle way type of thing
13:14
Speaker 1: where it's like, you know how,
13:16
Speaker 1: I think of Google autocorrect,
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Speaker 1: where you're typing an email,
13:19
Speaker 1: it autocorrects, it does that for you.
13:21
Speaker 1: There's gonna be like an AI version of that
13:22
Speaker 1: or just says, "Hey, would you like to write this instead?"
13:25
Speaker 1: So I think it'll, it's right now,
13:27
Speaker 1: I'd say 30% of the people are really in love with AI.
13:30
Speaker 1: 70% of people are kind of scared or don't like AI.
13:33
Speaker 1: And I can see that switching because AI itself is just like,
13:37
Speaker 1: the more people, you can't force a technology upon anyone.
13:40
Speaker 1: And I learned that through the crypto industry.
13:42
Speaker 1: So I'm like, "Hey, Raymond, use AI.
13:45
Speaker 1: I need you to use AI."
13:46
Speaker 1: You're like, "I don't think I want to use AI.
13:48
Speaker 1: I don't like AI."
13:50
Speaker 1: But if there's something that AI does that helps you
13:53
Speaker 1: and makes your life easier,
13:54
Speaker 1: then you're probably gonna end up using it
13:56
Speaker 1: and that's gonna be like a zero to one moment for you.
13:58
Speaker 1: So as more and more consumer apps come out and use AI,
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Speaker 1: that'll bring more and more people onto the AI side.
14:04
Speaker 1: So for example, there's some users
14:05
Speaker 1: who didn't use AI before dating,
14:07
Speaker 1: but like, "Oh, I kind of want a dating app.
14:08
Speaker 1: I'm kind of lonely.
14:09
Speaker 1: Oh, this is actually cool."
14:10
Speaker 1: And now they're more open to AI.
14:11
Speaker 1: So it's up to the builders of AI
14:15
Speaker 1: to create products and services that the public wants
14:17
Speaker 1: if they want people to use AI more comfortably.
14:22
Speaker 2: - Eric, I'm just fascinated by your dating app.
14:26
Speaker 2: I'm fascinated that you figured out
14:29
Speaker 2: how to not lose clients after the two people get matched up
14:34
Speaker 2: by continuing to offer Butler services.
14:37
Speaker 2: Fascinating.
14:38
Speaker 2: Tell me, what is the biggest thing that you learned
14:42
Speaker 2: in your whole experience of building and offering
14:47
Speaker 2: this dating app.
14:50
Speaker 1: - So some of the biggest lessons I've learned
14:52
Speaker 1: like more generally is,
14:54
Speaker 1: if you're building products and services,
14:56
Speaker 1: you build products and services,
14:57
Speaker 1: don't harm anyone and don't take anything away from anyone.
15:00
Speaker 1: And you should be good to go.
15:03
Speaker 1: And regarding the dating app specifically is,
15:06
Speaker 1: I learned about that there is a divide between people
15:09
Speaker 1: who don't like AI and who like AI.
15:11
Speaker 1: 'Cause like you said, I expected everyone to,
15:13
Speaker 1: I expected this to be a media hit,
15:14
Speaker 1: but then when people were signing up,
15:16
Speaker 1: we saw the feedback, we're like, "Oh, this AI is kind of scary."
15:18
Speaker 1: So we had to learn how to introduce AI into
15:21
Speaker 1: a AI-based dating app to make the users more comfortable.
15:24
Speaker 2: >> Wow. Now, first of all,
15:28
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone starts a business wanting to harm people.
15:31
Speaker 2: But even inadvertently,
15:34
Speaker 2: how can you possibly harm people with a dating app?
15:38
Speaker 1: >> So I would say, obviously,
15:41
Speaker 1: that's not the intention, but I would say it's getting
15:43
Speaker 1: really smart at learning about people.
15:45
Speaker 1: So it could create a honeypot for user profiles
15:48
Speaker 1: that they can use to sell malicious content for.
15:50
Speaker 1: So I've always thought like AI can be used for,
15:54
Speaker 1: like imagine this, like someone,
15:56
Speaker 1: there's a lot of medical records,
15:58
Speaker 1: like someone, AI scans all the medical records in the world.
16:01
Speaker 1: It scans, it picks up patterns that us humans have missed.
16:04
Speaker 1: And notice that like 50 people exhibit a specific pattern
16:07
Speaker 1: that has led to a specific disease.
16:09
Speaker 1: There are two paths you can take.
16:10
Speaker 1: You can either warn them, let them know, be the good guy,
16:14
Speaker 1: or you can use that to exploit them to make money, be the bad guy.
16:16
Speaker 1: So with our software being so knowledgeable on people,
16:20
Speaker 1: that could create incentive for bad actors to come in and try to steal user
16:24
Speaker 1: profiles to enact nefariously.
16:27
Speaker 1: And this would pair pretty well with like all the AI based scams going around,
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Speaker 1: like fake people reaching out,
16:34
Speaker 1: like bought it up people trying to sell people stuff,
16:37
Speaker 1: stealing their social security numbers,
16:39
Speaker 1: trying to steal their credit card info and all that stuff.
16:41
Speaker 1: And that's where something that having a honeypot
16:44
Speaker 1: of just highly intelligent user profiles could be an issue.
16:46
Speaker 1: But of course we're taking all the precautions
16:47
Speaker 1: we possibly can to make it as safe as possible.
16:50
Speaker 2: - Right, right.
16:52
Speaker 2: Now, totally new topic.
16:54
Speaker 2: Your official photograph has you in a sailboat
16:58
Speaker 2: wearing a t-shirt that says, "Occupy Mars."
17:02
Speaker 2: Now, what's the story behind that?
17:05
Speaker 1: - Yeah, so it was just, I was sailing
17:09
Speaker 1: and first of all, it was from a while ago,
17:10
Speaker 1: 'cause I'm a dude, so I have two functional photos
17:14
Speaker 1: that I use across everything,
17:15
Speaker 1: and that just happens to be one of those.
17:17
Speaker 1: And during that period of time,
17:19
Speaker 1: I was helping research space.
17:21
Speaker 1: So I did some summer research at Carnegie Mellon
17:23
Speaker 1: with my brother's team, and we helped.
17:25
Speaker 1: Like, we were playing around
17:27
Speaker 1: with a lot of really powerful telescopes.
17:29
Speaker 1: So space was just the vibe back at that time,
17:32
Speaker 1: and everyone had those Occupy Mars shirts.
17:34
Speaker 1: So I mean, I think space is cool.
17:36
Speaker 1: I don't think I would go,
17:37
Speaker 1: I won't be one of the first people to go to Mars,
17:39
Speaker 1: but if someone wants to go, they can go.
17:42
Speaker 1: - Very nice.
17:44
Speaker 1: Tell me your favorite quote, Eric.
17:48
Speaker 1: - As above, so below, as within, so without.
17:51
Speaker 1: And that's a quote by Hermes Trismegistus.
17:53
Speaker 1: That essentially means as within, so without,
17:57
Speaker 1: means what's on the inside is reflected on the outside.
18:00
Speaker 1: So if you're trying to change your world,
18:01
Speaker 1: it's just like a mirror.
18:02
Speaker 1: If you see a frowning face on the mirror,
18:04
Speaker 1: you can't force the mirror to change.
18:05
Speaker 1: You have to change it on yourself,
18:08
Speaker 1: and that'll change it.
18:09
Speaker 1: As above, so below, essentially,
18:11
Speaker 1: the theory behind that are the three levels of existence,
18:13
Speaker 1: the physical, the mental, and the spiritual,
18:15
Speaker 1: and they all reflect each other.
18:16
Speaker 1: So if you're not happy with the physical world,
18:18
Speaker 1: change your mental world or change the spiritual world
18:20
Speaker 1: and that'll trickle down to the physical world.
18:22
Speaker 1: So if you think everything is gloom and stuff,
18:24
Speaker 1: I will start thinking positively
18:25
Speaker 1: 'cause you're actually creating that reality for yourself.
18:29
Speaker 1: - Eric, if you and I were neighbors, we'd be best friends.
18:33
Speaker 1: - Yeah, we would totally chill.
18:34
Speaker 1: That'd be pretty fun, actually.
18:35
Speaker 1: We would have long conversations.
18:39
Speaker 1: Long conversations over a barbecue in the back.
18:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, food is clutch.
18:45
Speaker 2: Wow, I'm really taken by you.
18:47
Speaker 2: You're a fascinating person.
18:49
Speaker 2: Oh, you too, man.
18:50
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
18:51
Speaker 2: And what a great show.
18:53
Speaker 2: You've been a wonderful guest.
18:56
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for having me.
18:57
Speaker 1: I'm really grateful to be here.
19:01
Speaker 3: Well, I sure hope you enjoyed that fascinating episode.
19:04
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