Latest / Off Grid Down Under by MDC / EP 46 | Inside Dometic: Testing Labs, Grey Market Warning & the Future of Off-Grid Tech

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EP 46 | Inside Dometic: Testing Labs, Grey Market Warning & the Future of Off-Grid Tech · Off Grid Down Under by MDC

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: If you've ever watched one of our trips, we have zero mercy on the product.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: I've owned the medic product in terms of fridges, and I've got one that's older than the kids.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: We've got a testing facility, so we've got big vibration machines.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: They'll strap the fridges on there, they'll shake them out.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's part of the, you know, our manufacturing and production process.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: The testing is uh one of the bigger parts of it.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's in everyone's best interest to have that genuine collaboration.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Kane has on file all of our wiring diagrams for the gold class range.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: So if a customer calls through and has a question around the Dometic and a drive power system, Kane knows exactly the way we have wired that up.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Wanted to touch on grey imports.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: The product technically shouldn't be in Australia.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's like driving unregistered vehicle, you shouldn't have it on the roads.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's similar with with the products that are not certified for Australian markets, you shouldn't have it in your caravans.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Off Grid Down Under Podcast.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: As you will have seen in previous podcasts, we'd like to introduce people from the caravaning community, owners, travelers from around Australia, and also guests from other companies within the industry.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Today we have a couple of special guests from Dometic Australia who are going to share a little bit of their insight about products, etc.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: We have Damien Olinsky and we also have Kane Dixon.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: So welcome then, and of course, James, our general manager of product and every other hat that you wear, and there are a lot of hats.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: We all.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm, of course, Steve Zamet, the person you've known for so long.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: So, gentlemen, welcome to our podcast.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to start off with I understand that relationships between manufacturers and vendors, suppliers is a very important part about presenting a good quality product to the consumer.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to tell me a little bit about how it started with MDC, who approached who, and how that relationship's developed to where it is today?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: I go with you, Ken, I think automatically two years.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think the relationship goes a little bit further than that.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I think it goes back um when Dometic were doing their cooktops um and some fridges.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what over 10 to 15 years ago for sure.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I remember the products in around 2013 in the MDC trailers, and one of the the very strong thing about the MDC hard floors was the quality of the kitchens.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: And from memory, Dometic were a bit of a part of that with the products they were putting in in those days.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I've owned Dometic product in terms of fridges, and I've got one that's older than the kids.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's um it still works.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: So how has that partnership evolved?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, it starts out with some product, and can you give us a bit of an insight into what goes on in the background from MDC?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: Say, okay, this is the model we're going to use.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: This is the the range of appliances.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: Where does the involvement start and how does that progress through to a product that we put on the market?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I think it starts with the conversation at the start.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: So um our guys will talk with MDCs, that we find out what the needs are and what products we have that could fill those needs, and also what sol what solves the solutions or prop to the problems that you guys are having.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: So whether it's you know cooking, refrigeration, air con, we sort of go through the whole portfolio of what we could contribute and then work out what best suits your needs.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think it I think it comes down to the relationships as well, as as as much as anything.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we're very big at at MDC, as you know, Steve, uh around that is when we start these things, having those strong supplier relationships for us is the starting point because we know we're going to be well supported throughout that journey.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we work on these things from day one.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And to Kane's point, we usually come, we will internally have a good idea of what we are trying to execute from a new project perspective.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that then starts from knowing exactly what we want the end user or the customer to have or what the custom demand is, and then we work backwards from there and we'll go and meet with the likes of Dometic and go and talk about that, and then we'll understand what they've got either directly in their product line straight away, or in the pipeline in the next 12 to 24 months, and we'll work through that project from the very, very start.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And um, we've been lucky enough to have Demetic to our uh China manufacturing facility.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I would say at least five times.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's just the Australian team alone.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's not even taking into account their international teams from Sweden head office to the China team, and we will work through all aspects together: prototyping, proof of concept, wiring diagrams, uh performance of particular componentry, viability of it, how does the ecosystem work?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we're so lucky to work with partners like Dometic who are on that journey from us from day one, and we'll go through it.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess Gold Class Caravans project for us was so Dometic-centric in its creation.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: We had obviously the Dometic Air Conditioning, we've got EnerDrive Dometic power solutions in there for all the electrical refrigeration.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a key partner for us for that project, and working with the team there on that was a real joy and a credit to Dometic and their support for us.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: And that you touched on um proving the systems there.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think people realise the depth that that can go to when we're we're talking about in its simplest form, a box house on wheels.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: But so much goes into that when you when you factor in compliance and safety, you don't want to build a potential bomb on wheels.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's probably where the relationships and the the degree of knowledge in having a working partnership rather than just being a transactional supplier is uh such value to companies like ourselves.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: And maximising that I think has worked really well for us because the absence of problems is probably the greatest indicator of how well that's worked over the years.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: And and probably comes down to also the insight too.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_03: So even installing certain products, you know, you never want them to fail.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: But if there is, you know, if we can give you some insight and say, hey, look, in worst case, if something thinks we're going to need access to this.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: And then that way James can you know work with the factory to say, okay, we need an access panel here, or if something goes wrong, we do need to make these serviceable, and then that makes your vans better for the longevity of them as well.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Agree.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if you go back to that support part, too, if it was purely transactional and we simply place the orders and we receive the parts from Demetic and fitted them.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Dometic team have no oversight over or understanding of our system setups and the way we do things.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: So when we do have customers in the field who have queries, inquiries, if Demetic aren't involved from day one, they don't understand how we the the MDC way of doing things, how we've installed it, so they can't best support our customers.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's in everyone's best interest to have that genuine collaboration so that we are very much across it.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: So Kane has on file all of our wiring diagrams for the gold class range.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: We worked on, you know, 10 variations of that prior to approval.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: So if a customer calls through and has a question around the Dometic Metrive power system in a gold class, for example, uh Kane knows exactly the way we have wired that up.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Rather than going, well, we're actually not sure, they just order the battery charges from us or the batteries from us.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's far deeper than that for us.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: When when you mentioned access and being able to work on these products properly, having such a huge involvement in our customer service team on a daily basis, I can I can testify that you don't want third-party companies doing that service and repair work to hate working on your product.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: And because they're not under direct control.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: They are, at the end of the day, their own business.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: But being able to get that done and they know, okay, well, it's an MDC, it's going to be an easy fix.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh especially when with with the boom over COVID and everything, all the manufacturers had a boom period, but the growth of the service networks didn't have the same exponential growth.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: So resources are a bit tight.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: So that I see as a huge advantage for any brand to have a reputation of the products and appliances being easy to maintain and repair.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think that gets you in the door, gets you your booking to get it fixed a lot easier.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: Completely agree.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, James, what specifically about the range makes it a right fit outside of the relationship?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because we know that's rock solid.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um for Demetic, I'll be frank, I think Dometic's done a really good job in the last five years of being up there with the most innovative with their portfolio and the just the rate at which the Dometic product and new ranges have come out have been really good for us.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And as you know, Steve, we have been kind of in that same space of that rapid evolution of our product, and we want to align ourselves with people who have the same vision as us.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I was thinking about this before, uh, many, many years ago.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so there's a caravan show each year in in Germany, in it's called Caravan Salon in Düsseldorf, and that's basically the showcase for all global suppliers to show their latest and greatest parts, components, appliances.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: I still remember vividly seeing a Dometic dual door or dual opening door fridge at this show and thinking you cannot wait for that to come to Australia, and I'd love to be able to use it in some of our ranges.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm so excited now that we have it as standard in our Ford SR series in a number of those ranges, and seeing that now come to fruition here in Australia and seeing the usability of it, particularly in some layouts where it's a central kitchen you actually want to access from both sides if you want to grab a beer when you're in the shower.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, having that jewel door is amazing.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, the the innovation of Dometic, and that's just one example of something I love to see.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And Dometic is another good example too.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a global company that has so many different arms of you know, marine, uh, RV.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: You guys can probably list it better than I can.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: But what makes that special is you your product portfolio is just so immense, and we can have a conversation about anything.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: We may see something may not be in market.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: And just before we had this meeting, we had a meeting, Damien Kane and myself, around some new products coming and what's your timeline, what is your thoughts?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Dometica always coming for feedback on what they are developing because at the end of the day, if it doesn't fit what we are looking for or what we think the market's going to do, they're not going to sell product and we're not going to sell product.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: And just on being a global brand and the mix of products, something well it's probably for some a bit of a sensitive area, but I wanted to touch on grey imports.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: I've had experience uh past employers where some products or appliances fitted to caravans weren't actually the correct product for Australia.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: How does that affect you guys?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know it does happen in air conditioners, and it must be a little bit awkward when someone rocks up to a service center with an air conditioner, and the service guys say, Well, I don't know what that is.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: How where does that come about?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so in Australia, we I think James mentioned that before, we have a very strict uh requirement for certification of our products, and that can be anything from different gases, different um electrical components, um, etc.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: And for example, the gas used in American market or European market is different to gas used in the Australian market.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: So when you bring a product that is not part of our core portfolio here in Australia, we may not be able to support it immediately.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: We may not have spare parts for this product.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it might be product that we're not overly familiar with, given it's specific to different regions.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that level of service that we want to make sure we provide to our customers may not be available for those products that are imported without our knowledge.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and additionally to that, if something goes wrong with the caravan and you know, God forbid something catches on fire, we may not be able to support it through our warranty or through uh any uh insurance claims because the product technically shouldn't be in Australia.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's like driving an unregistered vehicle, you shouldn't have it on the roads.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's similar with with the products that are not certified to Australian markets, you shouldn't have it in your caravans.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: I yeah, I understand that.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I I do find it a bit concerning because I know how strict we are at MDC on compliance and ensuring that from the very first cut of steel to the end product complies in every possible way from Australian standards right through to even standards for safety of our staff.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um what are the possible adverse things of that?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: If if uh it's incorrect gas, does that mean it's banned in Australia or it could be.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: It could be like it really depends on the product, depends on the gas.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but to your point, yes, it could be banned.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it could be dangerous, it could not meet the conditions that you know the caravans and the product is exposed to in Australian environment.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we we don't know what you know, if we're not aware of the product, if it's grey import, we we simply cannot um determine what will happen with this product in in the strand market.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think that um when you're talking about these adverse react adverse conditions that this may be, as you said, performance is one thing, but it's it ultimately comes down to the ability to support that customer with that product.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: True.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's not stocked in that market, Demetic may well not have the parts to support it, circuit boards, motors, whatever that part may be.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: If it's not a supported part of that market, Demetic have no need to support, or not just Demetic, any supplier has no need to stock those parts.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this comes back to, and I find this fascinating when this happens, and it still happens today in terms of these parts, and I couldn't imagine a world where that would ever happen with any of our key suppliers because we just have them always at our factory, at our head office, we're always talking and collaborating, and I think that's the genuine difference between being a customer and being a partner of a key supplier.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you have gone to the point and just transactionally bought an aircon or a charger or whatever you want to call it, put it in without any interaction with the supply around, hey, can you guys come and help us with this?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: What's your thoughts?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Are you comfortable with the install for a sign-off and it's gone all the way to the Australian market or the US market and then it's in market and still no one's picked up on it, clearly that relationship between the supplier and the OE is not strong.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, if you if you bought that product or you were a local importer ending up with that product, yeah, it would be a lot of serious questions to be asking for sure back down the food train.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I get it.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I even remember many, many years ago I worked for a uh uh another international brand, and it was around that time of the whole tropical rated refrigeration conversation, and these was a it was a performance thing where these when they were going to far north Queensland in summer, for example, these fridges just couldn't perform, and it wasn't because the the product wasn't well made, it just wasn't suitable for the market, and that was another oversight at the time where the international brand hadn't recognised that it was a European specification refrigerator rather than being something specific to the Australian conditions.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: I get it.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: And talking about conditions, uh in Australia, especially for the off-road market, the places we go and the extremes in temperatures and atmospheric dust and if you've ever watched one of our trips, we have zero mercy on the product.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's almost looks like deliberately trying to destroy it.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: How what comes into the to factor in design for for residential or um basic static use to building a product to handle what us lunatics do to it?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: So that comes down to a lot of like the internal mounting and components.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I remember 15, 16 years ago, we had one style of inverter, this is before the Dometic Days.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um the caps after a while, the capacitors inside the inverter would actually vibrate loose and things.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: So now learning from that, you sit there and go, okay, we've got to make sure everything's secure.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: When it's in a stationary application like a house, it's not really shaking that much.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um but as soon as you put it into a vehicle and you're going along and the roads, uh, one thing Dometics got in the China uh lab, we've got a full big testing facility.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: So we've got big vibration machines, they'll strap the fridges on there, they'll shake them out, the air cons absolutely test the hell out of them.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um IP rating machines, so they go into a big room with the jets and just sit there for days.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: We've got um aging, an aging facility, so um you can actually all the fridges that we've got that we've done over the years, they're still running, and someone goes through every day, opens the doors, checking the numbers, and just doing that longevity to see how long they'll last.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: And there's ones in there that are eight, ten years old that are still on test at the moment.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: So the testing facility that the medic does is next level, just goes through everything to sound.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: We've got a big sound room over there to um any harmonic noise because you know when you're out in the middle of nowhere and it's late at night, you can hear every little tiny thing, so they make sure that they've settled all that.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: So and we can put up some photos as well.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think in post, um, I've taken some photos and we have a nice uh presentation that we can show as well.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And my trip to China last week, I've been through the lab as well, and you know, the the noise chamber, the noise room that you mentioned is probably my favorite room.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's so quiet, it's you know, but that that's what we do.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: We we make sure we test our product to um all the standards that are applicable in the Australian market, going back to great imports, you know, uh for Australian market product is tested in a specific way.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we can make sure that the product meets the customer requirements, whether it's noise levels, whether it's conditions, you know, off-road vehicle versus not an off-road vehicle, like those things matter.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: And as part of the you know, our manufacturing and production process, the testing is uh one of the bigger parts of it.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: It is vibration testing is is so important.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: I've been into two-way radio all my life, and in all my four-wheel drives, uh, I've had radio equipment.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: I've I lost count of how many garden variety UHF radios have rattled to not working, and then I bought a commercial radio which was built to military spec.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: You can't kill it with a stick.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so yeah, I understand the importance of that, and yeah, longevity is everything because consumers expect uh so much from a product these days, they're better educated and there's a higher expectation that comes with it, which is great.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: So once we go through selecting the products, the testing, validation.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: Now you covered durability.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Tell tell our uh viewers a little bit about warranty, the because your warranty on most products is longer than the caravan's warranty in general.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: So tell us a little bit about the warranty process and how you're able to provide those sort of guarantees.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so for most of our products, we offer free warranty, uh, which can be five for some water products.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And once again, we are very confident in offering that warranty because of all the testing we do prior to product launch.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: And James mentioned that before be being partners with MDC, we often send you product well before we launch it for field testing and may last anywhere from three to twelve months.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and we will not product launch product into the market unless we're very confident that it will meet your requirements and the consumer requirements.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so having that confidence to launch the product and giving it the warranty we we have is is one thing we do.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: But then on the support network outside, you know, once you sell the caravan, we we want to continue supporting you, we want to continue supporting the consumer.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we do have a very large network of service agents in Australia, something about 300 uh accredited um service agents in Australia that we support, we train, we sell parts directly to, um, and about 70 in New Zealand.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we cover Australia and New Zealand.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: We do have three or more warehouses, five warehouses across Australia, two two in Melbourne, two in Queensland, and one in WA.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: And we hold approximately 3,000 spare parts at any given time.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: So all of that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Support network that you know if something goes wrong, we we are there to respond to it immediately and and support customers wherever they are.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so very so glad you bring up that that support piece because it's something we always talk about at MDC is aligning with trusted brands to have that support.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: There are so many other brands out there that will lean on no-name appliances, things that I would deem as mission critical or absolutely pivotal in any caravan, which is like your electrical systems, your cooling, and your cooking, right?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Then your sanitation.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many other brands out there that are using no-name parts for these things, which I would I just don't understand it because what happens if something goes wrong with that?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's only then that OE who can help you.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: And if they don't have parts to support it or don't have a network, whereas back to Damien's point with Demetic and Dometic Enterdrive, 300 plus service networks around the country there, our customers can go to any one of those if they have anything they need help with for that, and they are going to be well supported, and that's why when we go and do our new new model projects, we align with those recognized and trusted brands.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I would argue Demetic is probably one of the most recognizable brands in the RV industry and has been for I don't know the number, I'm not a historian with Demetic, but um I know it started.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 60 years uh in a in the in the market, and I think that's quite phenomenal.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: And especially being over a a range of products as well, is if it was just one product we were doing, it's quite easy to just go, ah, don't worry about it.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: But when that can affect all your products, um you tend to support it a lot better because it's you got a bigger slice of the the build, so you're making sure that everything's on point.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: Otherwise, yeah, it gives you a bad name across all your products.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's it.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's where the partnerships come in too, because done wrong by third parties can can hurt your brand.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: So you want it airtight, you want one to produce a great product, then two your the people you're supplying to to do their part correctly.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: And of course your service network is they're the emergency people.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it and it's good that say an MDC customer can actually go direct to one of your service agents and produce proof of purchase of their caravan and get any warranty or whatnot dealt with directly.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: So they can make the appointment that suits them at a time that suits them with a service center in an area that they're either traveling to or is handy to where they are.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think more people should embrace that because there's less phone calls, less period of time from having an issue to getting that issue resolved.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that works extremely well.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think to James's point earlier about like the collaboration we have during the whole design phase, like I know from an electrical point of view, we work with the team to spec out this the system.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_03: We get the wiring diagrams, we check over it, say actually, no, we should put this here, that there, upsize that cable.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: So then that way, if it does go to the support network, we can also support that support network as well because we know how the product's installed.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um so overall it just gives the end user a lot better confidence and well I I can actually tell you with of course the EnerDrive systems that went into the first series of the Oz RVs, as the person who answers 99% of the inbound technical support calls, I rarely ever get a call about that system.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: Which would indicate such a a high degree of reliability and ability for the customer to understand the system.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: And some of these pro those products may be in the second, third, or fourth ownership phase, and we're still not getting phone calls.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: So that is a really, really good indicator.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: And and you look back at that, I think a lot of that product range come out around 2014.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: So we're we're sort of 12 years of proven track record, and that's why our warranty we can support and back it because we've got the history, we know the stuff just lasts.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: We design everything around over the last 16 years that I've been there is um we see what issues may come up when you're out the back of Burke or whoop whoop and no one's about to help you.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so we've made sure that any products that we develop are going to be able to be serviceable out there if the need happens.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: I want to say the absence of calls is the big indicator for me because I can very quickly rattle off the top of my head everything, the the top three things people struggle with.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, the uh the previous energy drive systems don't even uh appear on the radar, which is great.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about air conditioning and refrigeration in MDC caravans, and obviously now with our Mark IVs, which we're all super excited about.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: Between between you guys, what was the process and and what is really going to work well for the for the customer in that collaboration?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm happy to start this one off.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we can talk 48-volt air cons for a start.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, a big part of our Mark IV project was around 48-volt ecosystem, and we were at that point looking for a 48-volt air conditioner, and it was an absolute no-brainer for us in terms of the Dometic 48-volt air conditioner, incredibly efficient, uh, very elegant in its design, and something that our team were already familiar with, having already used uh the FreshJet Essential 5 series and obviously the 7 series over some other uh iterations in its time.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a really, really easy one for us in terms of that uh ecosystem.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so across the range, and we do this at MDC and Gold Class at all times, we all go and look at exactly what we need to achieve and for that particular model range.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: And Dometic now has a large portion of our refrigeration business, and it's because you guys have evolved, you've got a really good range uh across different sizes, and that's a big factor for us.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: When you're doing caravan design layouts, it's there are so many different refrigerator sizes, variants.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: So we run now from memory, we run like a 60-litre dometic fridge in our gold class as a beer fridge in the outdoor entertainment hub, uh, all the way up to now.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think inside that same van is our biggest dometic fridge at like 224 litres and everything in between 130s, 200s, um, some adjoal openings, some all different design and functionality, and that's important for us to be able to align and find the right fridge for the right model rather than trying to put a square peg uh you know, square pegging a round hole kind of thing.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the first thing people will complain about is poor ergonomics.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's immediate discomfort.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: The first time you go camping, if the fridge door's on the wrong side or awkward, anything, that that's something that they'll bring up straight away, and it's something you've got to live with for the lifetime of owning the caravan.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: Even the drink fridge that you do, the door handles at the top, nothing worse than you just set up camp, put your chair out, sit down, and then the kids come up and say, Can I get a drink?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: And they can't reach the handle.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: So the team actually went back and designed a new handle so it can open from the bottom of the door as well.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: So quick little add-on if you want that feature, you can screw it onto the bottom of the door, and then the kids can reach up, open up, grab the drink out of the bottom instead of you know, and that came around from I think more so the canopy thing where everyone started jacking up the cars and the fridge handle was up here, um, and shorter people could not get to it.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: So that became very, very fashionable to have an an upright fridge in the back of your four-wheel drive.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: So now where we're at with with fridges and the the relationship with MDC and how much time and effort goes into fitting these things, I'm sure there's air gaps and a lot of criteria that must be met each time we do that.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: How is that relayed through, like in the collaboration?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: How do you work all that out?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's it's funny.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny you bring this up.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because we actually talked about this just prior and talking about some future product discussions, and internal ventilation is one of the number one things as a prerequisite for us, Steve.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: As you know, off-road product for us, uh, dust ingress is an important factor in everything we do.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um I remember speaking to one of the product managers at Demetic many years ago when you guys were redesigning the NRX.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time, I think there were discussions around external ventilation versus internal ventilation kits and credit to Demetic team.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you can internally vent, and that's a game changer for us because any vent outside is a potential opportunity for dust to get in.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: So across all of the ranges that we've got of all the Dometic compressor fridges, and at MDC Gold Class, we own only run compressor fridges, we don't run three-way traditional fridges, and that's for various different reasons.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: But um a big factor for us is making sure they internally vent.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: And to your exact question around ventilation, it's it's actually not that difficult because we're not the smart people.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: The the likes like Dometic are, and uh usually the design of the refrigerator comes with a standard venting kit, so you can't stuff it up.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Or conversely, they will have very, very clear guidance around that.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: We get the engineers come out when we've done it, done our first prototype, make sure they're comfortable with the ventilation and the performance there, because if you do not have that, obviously the performance of the fridge is affected, and that's certainly not something we want customer wants, or of course, you know, Dometic doesn't want that either.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's sort of going back to your point earlier about the partnership and sort of understanding your requirements as a customer and giving you product notice ahead of time and being lucky enough working at Dometic.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: We have our own manufacturing, our own design facilities.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: We can adapt to those requirements very quickly.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, that's once again going about the partnership conversation, how we can, you know, improve the product based on your customers' requirements, based on your requirements, and you know determine the direction moving forward for both product and how the uh product is installed in the caravan.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: Now, portable refrigeration has is probably the most exciting thing that happened to camping in my living memory.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm I'm 61 years of age, and I cannot think of anything that was a greater game changer from going from the old foam eskey with some ice in it that lasted a day and a half to being able to go for weeks and just have this thing plugged into your car and keep everything cold.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: And not have to fish your food out of the water.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's not successful.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: And and it it it changed everything.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: And and we I speak to so many customers, mostly around my age or Gen X, that you know, have fond memories of camping was a tent, a single battery, and their fridge and some chairs and survive.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: Now it's all changed.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: Your caravan's got to be just like your house and everything's got to be infinite.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: They don't want finite things.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: And something that comes up there seems to be a lot of misconceptions about the performance of refrigeration and air conditioners and stuff like that.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: We have the most extreme environments out here.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: What are some of the misconceptions that you think need explaining to the general public about the R.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: I suppose there's misconceptions, but then there's also things to the rules, exceptions to the rules as well.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: So some of that comes from inferior products that may draw a lot of power.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: So some of your old refrigerators with the old compressor technology did use a lot of power.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Dometics work very hard on our aircons, our fridges to put variable speed compressors in there.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: So they ramp up, they ramp down, they can actually say, like with the portable ones, some compressors will kick in, run full noise, then turn off, kick in again.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um I know our CFX range actually has a variable speed, so it will actually ramp up, chill it nice and quickly, but then might dial back and just run slowly, same as the aircons, but actually run at a lower speed to just maintain it.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: So instead of going bang, kicking on full blast, suddenly you're really cold, put a jacket on and then it dials back again, they'll actually maintain and and adjust themselves.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_03: So that technology improvements and in compressor technology, sampling, all that sort of stuff.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a question for Damien, the resident refrigeration expert.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm I'm terrible for this, and I don't know what you're like, Steve.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: I just run everything flat out at all times.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the right thing to do?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about fridges first, right?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like for me when I camp and take out a caravan, I don't know why.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: It just in my mind, I just run the fridge flat out, as in like the highest setting at all times, because I just don't want to have any issues with my food inside.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do I need to do that?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yes, you can.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to, but you can.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: And when we do testing of our fridges, we run them at different ambient temperature, different humidities.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's preset um settings as to how cold your fridge or freezer can get.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, at the highest settings, we aim for temperature of about three degrees on the inside of the fresh food compartment and about minus 18 to minus 20 in the freezer compartment.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this is the standard testing that we do in ambient temperature up to 43 degrees to recreate that kind of caravan or potential caravan um environment.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and the power draw compared to household refrigeration is about 30 to 40 percent less, uh, which we actually did some testing, some numbers yesterday just to make sure we have it right.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, so going back to sort of the conversation about you know um developing product for the caravan use, for the off-road use, and uh to your point as well, um having that finite resource which is which is power, and you're not connected to the grid 24-7 like you're at home.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, all of our products we need to make sure that they perform as you would expect from household refrigeration, because at the end of the day, you want to keep your food cold and your ice cream frozen.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but at the end of the day, you have to worry about how much power you will draw.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: So with the products that we have at Dometic, we want to make sure that they are as efficient as possible on the on the batteries, but also that they perform the basic tasks of cooling your food down.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: And what about so let's let's turn to another example, the 48 volt dometic air conditioner.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Would I be better in the best, in I've got young family, young kids, nap time.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is it better that I just run the aircon flat out, full fan, lowest temperature for 30 minutes to cool it down?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Or would it be better for me to run it at less fan at 24 for longer?
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: What what what should we do?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because everyone's got different views on this.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: And as I said, I'm terrible, I just run everything flat out at all times.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I think as Keen mentioned before, um with with the way our product is developed, you will start your air conditioning unit, you will ramp up, get to a certain temperature, and it will just maintain that temperature.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you you can run it full speed, but the the product will slow down by itself just to maintain that temperature to make sure that your power draw is as efficient as possible whilst maintaining the comfortable um room temperature inside the caravan.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so with the aircons, in instead of the old days where you just set it on high, you put it on what temperature you prefer, and it will ramp up.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: You hear it go thing, cool it down, and then it just goes into sort of quiet mode and just maintains that 22 on any fan speed or just on the auto fan speed?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: On the auto, it'll just do it thing.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: If you run it on high, it'll it'll keep running high.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's more so the fan speed, but the compressor will actually dial back because you might want to spread the air further if you've got a longer van, you want to push it, um, but the compressor will dial down the background.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: That that thing.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: So often the the things I see with people is oh, I'm I've gone away and my battery's flat a day and a half into the thing.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I find preparation before going away is important.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, I did the experiment uh experiment with one of your CFX fridges where before heading off to the big red bash, I pre-froze everything in my fridge at home.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: It was minus 22 degrees, chilled everything else down to two degrees for the fridge section, packed my freezer, and then and I had frozen bottles of water, and every spare square inch inside the refrigeration part, I put bottles of frozen water, closed it up, and disconnected the uh charging from the car and from the solar in the in the caravan.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: Have a guess how long it took that fridge to cycle in.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: Before it kicked back in again?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: Before it took power from the battery, yes.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, probably five hours?
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: Try three days.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: Three days.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: Some good insurance.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: It was almost three days and it was packed, and I'm not kidding.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: It just stayed at temper.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: I s I set the freezer temp at um eight degrees and set the refrigeration temp at three and and it was uh 95 litre.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it was literally just short of three days where the fridge and it was in winter because it was heading to the big red bash.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it was good conditions, but that was the difference it made.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_03: So and that's that's a good energy tip for your viewers in that as well is keep water bottles in there because every time you open up, you're trying to cool that air back down again.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: But if you've got water bottles that have stored that that uh energy from you know, when you during the day when you got free solar, you can run your fridge, everything's nice and cold.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: When you open it up and shut it again, those bottles will help cool that system down.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: So keep your your fridge fuller than empty and use a lot less power.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: Have you got any other advice for people on on how to better keep their resource use down with with that sort of thing?
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_03: I think what you're saying there before was make sure you plug in and everything's chilled before you go.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because otherwise, if you just put everything warm in and run off your batteries straight off the rip, you you can pull 10-20% out of your batteries just trying to chill everything down.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: It'll run at almost 100% duty cycle.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: And if the fridge is capable of drawing 10 amps, that's what it's going to draw f for the eight hours to get it down to temperature.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: So prep pre-chill everything before you leave.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then also do some dry runs.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I see or we hear so many people that pick their van up and then just head straight out.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: Where if you go home, use it how you would and you know, put the lights on, run the air con to what you think, yeah, just camp in your yard for a a weekend and just see how things operate.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: Always have that ability to plug in.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um I know with my own camper when I first did that one up, um, I'd go out and get powered sites for the first couple of times.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: Usually they're all the good sites on the river anyway.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I wouldn't plug in, but I knew that if I needed it, it was there.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: I never needed it and I never worried about plugging in.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: But just for the first couple of trips out, it was good just having that safety net just to see how the van ran.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's an important thing because I've I've found in in this industry uh that managing expectation is important because everything has limitations.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: And with more than 50% of people that are buying RV products now have never owned an RV product before.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: And even more, there are less and less that have a family legacy in RV products and fridges.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, and I've sold ki caravans to people that have never even owned or camped in a tent.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a big change.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, managing those expectations is is a very, very difficult job and giving people the education to understand okay, that's that's the limit I'm gonna get out of the best product I can buy and working around those things.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: So and it also comes down to how you use it.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: So the way I use it to the way you use it, yeah.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_03: I might only get the weekends off, so I might go out and I'll use the air fryers and the induction, and I don't mind draining the battery down because I'm coming home Sunday anyway.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: But you might want to head up and go camp up the beach and you're parking in and you'd say, Well, I don't want to move for a week.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: So you want to you want to pick which nights you're gonna have your your air fried chips with your fish that you've just caught.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: Two weeks is a short trip for me.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: So So the way you use power would Different to the way I would use power.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: So it's um finding out how you want to use the van and your limitations and go, okay, we can't do this because we've only got X amount of solar on the roof.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it depends on where you go, whether it's tree coverage, cloudy days.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I think just working out what you can do and having the battery monitors where you can cook things and go, okay, that uses roughly five percent or two percent when I want to do that, and just sort of get those.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where it falls back to that test drive at home in the driveway and knowing the limitations of the products you've bought.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I get it.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: So look, let's move on to the gold class.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: Let's put a bit more of a spotlight on that.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: Enter drive by Dometic in the gold class.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: Now, between the through you guys, I'm sure you can tell me why this is such a red-hot thing to put in that product.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: So the gold class project we started uh working through, you know, 2023, 2024, and part of that is it was our premium offering specification and looking at all of the things we could put within there.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: So when we went and looked at all the supply chain for that, it was a very, very quick decision for us in terms of uh okay guys, what electrical system are we shortlisting for this?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: And naturally, and a drive at the time was was well up the top there.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then we met with some suppliers and talked about what that partnership may look like, what they could offer, what the system could look like, what would the capability be like?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a very, very quick and easy decision, certainly from my perspective.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was then coupled with the ability for them to support us really well in the Australian market, but also equally that fantastic support in our China manufacturing facility with Dometic China as well.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, from my perspective, I'm not sure if Kane's got any different views on that, but from from that, because I worked with with Kane on this from day one and I've known Kane for many years.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um for us, that part of the the picture was very, very easy.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then it kind of went broader around okay, what are the other parts of supply?
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it was the first time, for example, we'd gone for installed induction cooking in any of our market direct group ranges, and that ended up being demetic induction.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: And genuinely speaking, when we went through that project, it just so happened that a lot of the key appliances and components we put in was Demetic because it was the best fit for what we were trying to achieve.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: So, in terms of the customer, what does that mean for the gold-class buyer?
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: Where what does it give them that gives an advantage?
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: What I loved about it and the way that it transpired was it was such a dominant goal um Demetic ecosystem that we were very confident because Dometic would already have done their system testing and the the part testing with everything working with one another.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because it was so Dometic heavy, we were very confident that the Dometic AirCon was going to run run really well off the Dometic Enter Drive Electrical System.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, their partnership at the time with Symarene for all of the the screen.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: We run the CyMarine screen for all of the diagnostics, the integration, also all the way that the parts communicate with one another.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was a big one for us too, for a user experience.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that was again one of the first times in our ranges for a long time we'd gone to try and integrate as much as we could into one screen.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we had our water tank monitoring, we have an inclinometer in there, um, all the diagnostics on that one cyberine screen.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of the first time we'd done tried to do a uh a more seamless ecosystem.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: Having played around with it, it is impressive.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: It does work extremely well.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, the the product is amazing.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_03: And and one of the things um in the scope of the system was everything was built around serviceability, reliability.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_03: If you're out in the middle, um it's a 12-volt system, so if you're out somewhere, the local farmer or the local auto electrician is going to be able to have a look at the system for you.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: But it was all about if one solar controller goes down, well, we've still got two or three other solar controllers.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um we've got the DC DC that's running in there that you can plug portable solars into.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_03: So it was all about that backup.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um we did in my early times at um Enterride before Dominic, we were doing a lot of commercial grid systems, so it was always about backups, reliability.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_03: So if one bit goes down, you've still got many other forms that are working independent that will still work, even if something you don't end up with total failure.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_03: Which is you're still gonna be there's gonna be a workaround until we can get you the part out there to sort you out.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: And and that that actually works into my next question because reliability uh off-grid and people are traveling further for longer and more remote than we've ever seen previously because uh caravans and appliances are more reliable and your average off-road vehicle is so reliable now, it's not not kidding.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: You can go nearly anywhere with two inches of lift and and a bull bar and a winch, and away we go.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: So with the push towards that, the the popularity of that kind of camping growing, where is Dometic heading in the future with products to support that kind of off-grid, long-term, off-grid life?
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_02: Is there much in the pipeline to make that life easier?
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_03: There's lots in there between, as I said, aircons, the the the different fridges, the cooking, um, bigger batteries, so we're just on is that public now?
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um we're at the moment we're using the the 300 amp batteries.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: We've actually been able to shoehorn 460 amp hours into the same battery capacity.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: Into the same case size, which is just fantastic.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: So in our in our AC22C, so our our top of the line uh gold class off-road caravan, we've got three 460 amp hour lithium batteries in there as standard.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: So what's the mass on that?
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: 1380?
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um, yeah.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm building a new four-wheel drive soon.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that it's a credit to the the team at uh Dometic for figuring out the smarts as to shove more battery capacity in there because when we were talking and you're talking about what's the future for for Dometic, like the customers just always want more, more capability off-grid uh for longer, but you know, there's so many restraints in that, so we've always got to be thinking of ways to do it smarter, lighter, more capacity, but the same size, and that's just not easy.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's yeah, it's life catering to the Vaughan Hindley camping experience where we're running an air fryer, we're running a portable smoker.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we've got more people, we need a second air fryer.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well just for um an example, we had one of the rangers at work which had a our Journeyman power system in there, and normally we'd pair it up with a 200 amp battery.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_03: This one we paired up originally with a 300 amp battery, but then we end up putting a second one.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: So in the back of the ranger we had 600 amps because the guy wanted to just air fry wedges and everything for the whole campsite.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: So it'd sit there for like two or three hours just air frying wedges.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um so he just put the bigger battery system in there, which made it expandable.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_03: It shows you just everyone's usage is a bit different.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: But for sure.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh it's changed.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: The the off-grid and and convenience side of things has been an enormous driver on products.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: I know what it means for us with products, much higher battery capacities and you know, more water, more this, more solar, and more capability.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: And what's that's brought through is the I don't have to worry about it, I'm only going away for four days at a time, but I want to run everything in.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_02: People like James is just gonna go for four days or something and don't want to want to turn everything on and it all works type.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: How how much consideration do you put into that with this sort of thing?
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because I I know I've used uh one of a caravan with one of your gas heaters in it, and we're stuck out in the snow, we actually couldn't drive out for a few days, and it did not run out of gas, and I did not change gas bottles, and I did not turn it off for three days.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: It was the most efficient appliance I've ever seen in my life.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_02: There must be an enormous amount of thought goes into that.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why, even with um a lot of power usage that we're doing, you know, and there's emphasis on induction cooking and that, Dometic still has a big range and is still developing gas cookers, um, camp camp stoves, gas camp stoves, and that, because when it comes down to that's one of the biggest draws on the system, the aircon's a big one, but also your cooking side.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_03: So sometimes a gas oven or a gas barbecue outside um to do your your big roasts and stuff on there is still a a great alternative.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_03: As much as induction and using the air fryer is great, people still like to be able to cook on gas, and Dometic still has a really big gas project or portfolio as well.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it goes back to the conversation we had before about communication.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, how your customers use your caravans, you feed that feedback directly back to us, and then we have a challenge on our hands to develop product that can cater to your customers.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: So every product we try and launch, I mean, we've had a conversation about fridges.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: We wanted to make it bigger and more efficient than the current version.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: With the 48 volt aircon, it's more efficient than non-48 volt aircraft.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: So we're always trying to push those limits to introduce product that's been more efficient than the previous generation, bigger that you can enjoy your trips for for longer and further away from you know from the grid than than in the past.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're very lucky in that regard because we have so much close engagement with an enormous amount of our customers, and they don't mind telling you.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: They'll tell you what they like, what they don't like, what they think you should be building, and all that sort of stuff.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, that kind of feedback's very important.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_02: So where do you guys where do you see caravans and appliances in the next 10 years?
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's people are probably going to start doing less world travel and less because the turmoil around the world, and I think you know, traveling closer to home, wanting to spend money, you get, you know, in Australia you get a dollar for every dollar.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_02: There's no exchange rate.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_02: So where do you see us in 10 years in terms of appliances and how that fits in with the caravanning fraternity?
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think James mentioned on that before that caravan is pretty much a home on wheels.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of customers treated us home away from home.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, we need to um be an appealing brand to that as well.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: We can't just have a product that was popular 20, 30 years ago because it was pure caravan, pure camping product.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now we need to make sure that we have product that you would use at your own home, but you can use it in the caravan.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I I've definitely seen a shift in in sort of how people use the product, the appearance of the product is now more and more important.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and to your point as well, more people will go on travels outside, you know, within Australia, away from their homes.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we want to make sure that they are as comfortable as possible.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's through the product, through the use case of the product, how they use it.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we want to make sure that you would use your product in the caravan the same way you would use it at home.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that user experience is very important to us as well.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_03: And then also stuff that might have been portable, yeah, where people have got, I'm not saying we do coffee machines, but like a coffee machine, your air fryer.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_03: How can we make that in a way that you guys can solid mount it so it's it's in there built into the van and you don't have to sit there and go, all right, I'm about to go down the track.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_03: How can I stow this in there and put some cushions around it?
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_02: How can we make things better suited and built into the van rather than having I've got a great test platform on building a four-wheel drive soon, so anything you've got in that sort of regard, you want to put on extended test, I'm saying.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_02: You're the guinea pig.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm brave.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think it all comes back to, and I think I'm seeing this too, as we all are, is the the disconnect between what you expect expect your home to function like in the caravan is that gap is closing year on year.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 10-15 years ago it was a camping experience that was very rough.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's such a close connect between what you'd expect your house to be like.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: Most of our customers, and not just ours, most of the RV customers spending good money.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: The overarching assumption is that within reason you will step into the caravan and experience will be very similar to your experience at home across everything refrigeration, air conditioning, showering, toilet, uh cooking.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's driving then the innovation from the likes of Dometic as a key partner of us to think of because at the moment we're all capped.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: Everything weighs something.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone wants a van a certain length, but now we've got to the point where the tear mass can't get much higher because then we don't have enough payload.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: So now we're looking at more innovative ways to still give the customer everything they want, but changing materials, looking at lightweight things, more efficient appliances, componentry.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I think if you want to if you want my viewpoint on that, I think efficiency is going to be one of the key things in the next five years in terms of the next wave of of what's going to be new in the caravan industry will be the way at looking at making things lighter and more efficient, but not compromising on that off-grid capability.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, my realisation on um how much that gap has been bridged was my first time I stepped into our 22-foot SR.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_02: I stood there, I looked at it and thought to myself, I could live in this.
• 58:17
  unknown: Yeah.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_02: It was the first time I'd actually stepped into a caravan and thought to myself, I could live in this, I could be comfortable and happy.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, with the combination of the kind of innovative products you guys are bringing out, uh, our ability to design in greater capacities in our caravans and keep something like a 22-foot that I can tow behind a dual cab ute and go anywhere I want, is that is a the bridge is that got such a small gap left in it now, it's amazing.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you all, gentlemen.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate your time today and your and your input and your insights into everything we do and plan to do down the in the future.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you, James.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Steve.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate it as always.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_02: So there you go, folks.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_02: That brings to conclusion another episode of Off Grid Down Under.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you found it informative and got some information that will help you make better decisions and informed decisions down the track when purchasing something like appliances or a new caravan or camper.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's what we're here to do.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_02: Give you the information so you can see it all for yourself.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_02: Don't forget to check out all our resources on social media, our YouTube channel with plenty of masterclass videos and videos to help you with your caravan and camping experience.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time, thanks again.